AUGUSTA, Maine — Don’t seek solutions to nonexistent problems.
During a public forum that stretched more than two hours Thursday evening at the University of Maine at Augusta, roughly 20 speakers shared variations on that refrain with a five-member commission assigned to review Maine election practice and suggest improvements.
Representatives from the League of Women Voters, Maine Women’s Lobby, Maine People’s Alliance, the American Civil Liberties Union of Maine and other advocacy groups lined up to present arguments against laws that would require photo identification for voters or tougher rules against allowing college students to cast ballots in Maine.
No one spoke in favor of mandating voters to present photo identification at the polls. However, Christine Keller, Fairfield’s town clerk, did urge the commission to consider ways to “fill some holes in the integrity of the voting system.” Among her suggestions were eliminating oaths as proofs of residency and allowing same-day sharing of information to allow municipalities to de-activate voters when they register in another city or town.
Thursday’s forum was the first of eight public events that the Commission to Study the Conduct of Elections in Maine scheduled at various locations throughout Maine to solicit input on all aspects of the state’s election system.
In February, the Legislature’s Veterans and Legal Affairs Committee directed Secretary of State Charlie Summers to order a thorough study of Maine’s election system. That vote occurred after the committee decided not to move forward with legislative consideration of a carryover bill that would have required voter identification.
The commission, chaired by former Maine Superior Court judge John Atwood, was appointed in May and has met five times since then. It must report its findings and recommendations for legislation by Feb. 1, 2013.
Other members of the commission are former Bangor Mayor Larry Willey; Tim Wilson of the Seeds of Peace program; former Portland and South Portland City Clerk Linda Cohen; and former U.S. Attorney Paula Silsby.
The commission is conducting its work in an environment where Republicans continue to push for election reform in response to — largely unsubstantiated — claims of voter fraud, while Democrats vehemently argue against such measures as attempts to suppress voting blocs that traditionally support them.
In June 2011, Gov. Paul LePage signed LD 1376, An Act To Preserve the Integrity of the Voter Registration and Election Process, which banned same-day voter registration. House Speaker Robert Nutting, R-Oakland, sponsored LD 1376, which was endorsed by Secretary of State Charlie Summers. The bill passed largely along party lines.
Progressive groups immediately began collecting signatures, which triggered a citizens’ veto referendum that overturned LD 1376 in November 2011.
In July 2011, Maine Republican Party Chairman Charlie Webster produced a list of 206 names of college students who he said should be investigated for voter fraud. He tied their votes to Election Day registration even though there was no direct connection.
About two months later, Summers announced the findings of that investigation. Although he found no evidence of fraud, Summers said his probe revealed that Maine’s elections system was “fragile and vulnerable” to errors.
Speakers on Thursday pointed to Summers’ investigation and the lack of data to substantiate voter fraud in Maine or nationally as arguments against stricter voter identification laws.
Arthur Davis, 73, of Woolwich, spoke first. An African-American born and raised in Jacksonville, Fla., Davis told commission members that he had experienced racial segregation and voter suppression firsthand. Citing African-Americans and the elderly as groups that would suffer disproportionately if required to present photo IDs in order to vote, Davis said, “The problem is lack of participation, not fraud.”
Pat Lewis, also of Woolwich, identified herself as a longtime poll worker. She compared the cost of acquiring certified birth certificates or other documents proposed as requirements for photo identification cards to the “poll tax my grandfather paid.”
Laura Harper of the Maine Women’s Lobby noted that “less than half of the women in America have a birth certificate with their current name on it” in making her case against tougher voter identification requirements.
Advocates for people with disabilities and for homeless voters also encouraged the commission to base any proposed changes in Maine’s electoral law on the premise that government ought not place obstacles before eligible voters and that the focus be on increasing participation.
“Participation is the bedrock of a vibrant democracy,” Davis said.
“To be able to vote keeps you connected to your community,” Thomas Ptacek of Homeless Voices for Justice said.
The question of how to deal with college students who seek to vote in Maine also elicited discussion. Keller suggested that students living in dormitories and who are still considered dependents of their parents should vote in their home communities.
Willey asked Sarah Walton of the League of Women Voters if she was familiar with a 1990 ruling from the state attorney general’s office that addressed the definition of “domicile” as it relates to student voter registration. Walton replied that, although she had read the ruling, “It didn’t make me think, ‘Gee, that’s clear.’”
Jane Edwards, a retired law librarian, urged the commission to research federal laws related to questions about student voting rights.
The potential for fraud from Maine’s increased use of absentee ballots and logistical problems that absentee ballots cause for poll workers also spurred conversation. Keller voiced concern that the system has shifted from “necessity absentee balloting to convenience balloting,” but without providing financial support to cities and towns to pay for that convenience.
While photo identification, student voters and absentee balloting dominated the conversation Thursday, speakers and commission members also raised questions about the merits of unified polling places versus wards, access for disabled voters and the reliability of ballot-counting machines.
The commission’s next public forum is scheduled for Aug. 30 at Portland Public Library.



You don’t expect them to actually listen do you?
Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. It is a good thing that there is opposition to it. Let’s see what happens.
It’s a scam. Those pushing this kind of legislation are the true frauds. They talk up and down about a problem that doesn’t exist, it’s a convenient excuse to cover up what they’re really doing.
On Fox news last night I observered an add that really blew my mind, they solicit viewers to call their congressmen to repeal the 1993 Law that allows for Voter Registration at Welfare Offices, and at the Dept of Motor Vehicles. In the add they claim that they have to stop Obama’s (Voter Fraud) of handing out Cigarettes and Food Stamps for votes!
You have just got to see it to beleive it!
10 to 1 odds that it was paid for by ALEC backers.
Money wasted
They’re just dirty and dishonest. The kind of stuff blows my mind too, but you have to remember that stuff only exists in their hyper-partisan bubble. Their claims don’t stand up to the scrutiny of reality.
The DNC had vans picking up people in Chicago and giving them cigarettes and money to vote. That is not against the law. I could take a van to the local old folks home and give them all a ride to the polls. That is not against the law. That is why voter fraud is so hard to prove. You have to prove that they actually voted for you because you gave them something. That is why there is so little “evidence” of voter fraud – not because it doesn’t happen.
LOL, it’s always Chicago.
BME. Then there was the was the Alderman (not in Chicago) who got busted for passing out Twinkies to Senior Citizens on election day.
I was talking to my younger brother the other day and he recalled 40 years ago when he turned 18 and was walking home from school a neighbor stopped him and asked if he had voted. He replied NO and this fella said get in, everyone needs to vote. I will take you to the polls. On the exit of his car this fella told him I am not going to tell you how to vote, but remember it was a Democrat that offered you a ride.
My brother had voted Republican now for years and since this voter suppression surfaced recently so has the recall of this event!
He told me this year he has decided to Switch Parties!
Nice attempt at a smear campaign by extremist FOX “News”. Who believes this crap?
I watch it for a laugh from time to time!
I am getting so that I can predict what some of the commentors on here will type by what was on last night!
Maine Constitution and Title 21-A, Maine Law on Elections
Your Right to Vote in Maine
Maine has one of the most accessible voting processes in the country. …….. To be eligible to vote in Maine, you must meet the following requirements:
18 years old
United States Citizen
Resident of the municipality in which you want to vote
Voter Rights
The U.S. Constitution gives all citizens the right to vote.
I can register to vote in Maine if:
I am a United States citizen;
I live in a town or city in Maine; and
I am 17 years old and will be 18 years old by Election Day.
Nothing wrong with that.
Maine, The way life/voting should be.
You need ID to buy alcohol, to buy cigarettes, to drive a car, to travel on a plane, to buy certain cold medicines, to take out a library book, to collect unemployment, etc..
Yet, ask for ID when you vote and suddenly, it’s a tremendous hardship?
Voting is supposed to be at the core of what it means to be a citizen. Why is it too much to ask for people to present ID before voting?
The answer to your question is simple, nothing you mentioned is a granted right in our Constitution except the right to vote.
Not true. And as I’ve noted before, the right to buy a gun is constitutionally guaranteed and exercising it does require an ID.
Is it a right to buy a gun or “the right to bear arms?”
Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Somebody has to buy the gun you bear, and if he can’t buy it, neither you nor he can bear it.
The precise meaning of the Second Amendment — “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”
The bottom line is the post I commented on had no mention of gun. And I posted “nothing you mentioned is a granted right in our Constitution except the right to vote.”
My comment isn’t about guns, it’s about how requiring an ID for exercising a constitutional right is – as shown by the laws surrounding gun buys – an acceptable practice.
And at any rate, your assertion that the Constitution ‘grants’ (more accurately, ‘guarantees’) a right to vote is flatly wrong.
All you needed to do in 1776 was to show your face, and sign your name!
Whats wrong with that?
It worked for Thomas Jefferson!
Not quite. You had to be a white male property owner.
Oh, you mean the “good ol’ days”.
***sarcasm***
Thats right, I forgot about that!
But still,– how did they Know it was him without the photo and not one of his servants?
So, maybe Thats the current intent of the GOP!
Only White Rich Male Property Owners Should Vote!
No right owned by Americans is more precious than the vote.
Never mess with that.
Agreed, the franchise is at the core of a citizen’s rights (and responsibilities). None of the other actions on your list are. If requiring identification beyond registration is necessary because of routine abuse of the franchise, perhaps an argument could be made for it. That has not been the case. What is the case is an orchestrated right-wing effort in many states to make it difficult for various elements in the adult population to cast ballots. Charlie Webster was following the script, citing the quadrennial surge of interest in registrations by college students in his hometown as a case of fraud. It simply was and is not true. Fraud at election time is more likely the result of mishandling of ballots, malfunctioning tallying machines or outright ballot theft. That is not the fault of citizens exercising the right of franchise.
That’s what people are choosing to ignore. Not only is there no significant issue with voter fraud, but all the examples of where one needs to show ID have nothing to do with their rights and responsibility of being a citizen.
It is clear that the reason for these laws is to reduce the number of people voting for the “wrong” party.
Maine is mostly made up of small towns, as such, everyone knows everyone else in these towns.
No one needs to show an ID to VOTE, Which is a right not a privilege, which is what the other things you cite are.
Yes. It is. the current system works well and there is no evidence of extensive voter fraud to start with. So much for the conservative “get big government off my back” mantra. Seems to be a bit hypocritical: adding layers of government regulation where no problem exists. These actions are partisan to the core. Class warfare? You’re soaking in it!
So, instead of asking why we should be showing our ID at every turn, you are advocating for even MORE “showing of papers.”
Yes, voting is part of being a citizen, but you are saying that every person must have a photo ID in order to be a citizen. That’s not what THIS country is about.
You assume that everyone buys alcohol, cigarettes, drives or travels by air. You do know what happens when you ASSume? As for the ID requirements EVERY STATE that has implemented the requirement has made it more difficult for minorites, the elderly, and the poor to obtain the proper ID. Beyond the number of pieces of identification often required they have made access to places of registration more restrictive in areas with high populations of these demographic groups-often deliberately closing and moving offices that were in those areas. They have gone out of their way to limit the number of days before an election that certain segments of the population can vote, especially since it has been shown that the people they want to disenfranchise vote during those times.
There’s no secret about what LePage and his cronies are up to. Paul Weyrich, one of the founders of the Heritage Foundation, the “Moral” (sic) Majority, and ALEC started the ball rolling with his “I don’t want everyone to vote” speech. From that day forward there has been a consistent attack on voting rights and inane, unsubstaniated and unproven claims of voter fraud in a not so veiled attempt to force this regressive idea on us. If places like Egypt, Sudan, and other emerging democracies can have successful elections without a photo ID why can’t we, the so-called greatest democracy in the world?
When was the last time you saw a 30+ year old who was asked for ID to buy alcohol or cigerettes?
Car Rental Agencies ask for your drivers license, not just any ID, to make sure you are a legal driver.
I did not have to show ID to collect unemployment when I lost my job.
SHowing ID for certain cold medicines is to see if you are buying an unreasonable amount of the cold medicine not to determine if y ou can buy it.
It’s not the act ,it’s doing it right before an election.Did you hear the repuke from Pennsylvania say on t.v that this strategy would deliver a win to mitt?
What is really funny is they want to make so you have to show ID to vote, when there is no voter fraud, but when you want to set up a register for gun buys, Ohhhh….. you are infringing on there constitutional rights!
In order to buy alcohol, cigarettes…..you need to prove your AGE. In order to purchase cold medicine, the information is used to limit the number of times and how much is purchased, NOT whether you can purchase it at all. In order to drive a car, you have to be licensed, it’s been that way since the early 20th century. In order to vote, you must be 18 years of age, in order to register to vote (just as obtaining a driver’s license) you must demonstrate your age…….ONCE.
Voting is exactly the core of our democracy, what is problematic of our democracy is apathy. Any further restrictions on exercising a civil liberty only allows apathy to flourish. There is no problems with the state’s voting systems, yes there are clerical errors…..any further restrictions or requirements are not going to alleviate human error. And finally, how is a soldier in Afghanistan supposed to verify his or her identity when they wish to vote absentee?……or is that “different”?
It’s only too much to ask when the voter doesn’t have a drivers license, or other photo ID, and can’t get the birth certificate needed, or has to pay taxi fare, or birth record fee, to get the papers needed. People shouldn’t have to PAY to vote, especially if they’ve been voting for years in Maine.
I agree only with your next to last sentence. You would deny a large number from voting by unnecessary hindrance. Al this in the face of infinitesimal fraud. We know what your real motives are.
You need a picture ID to check out a library book??? Get with it, this is a blatant attempt by the GOP to discourage many people that historically vote Democrat, to not vote at all.
Elderly rural residents don’t have any of those benefits. Why make it more difficult to vote at their local school?
The voting issue has only come into vogue since President Obama has been in office. It’s part of the Republicans’ plan to make him a one term president. The Republicans prove they are willing to do anything to see that their goal is achieved. As “per usual” they trump up some meaningless drivel to try to sell to us something that doesn’t exist. It’s voter fraud in this case, they show us that they will rip the heart out of our democratic process and are willing to become liars and thieves to achieve that end.
Hats off to the Augusta forum —- We must UNITE against these scoundrels of Democracy.
I would like to disagree on that point. About 2002, I sent a letter to the editor of the PPH, stating how easy it would be to vote twice as I just moved from one town to another. I showed up at my old town and voted. Just much easier than to try and get all the info on voting day. But I could have voted in both places. So the opportunity is there for fraud.
I have a gun, I could go off-season hunting if I wanted to. It’d be easy, but it’s illegal. Just like voting twice is illegal.
Agreed, I don’t how many times I’ve had the opportunity to “harvest” a turkey strutting around the door yard, but I do not. Our systems are based on honesty and it assumes we conduct ourselves accordingly.
Of course the opportunity is there but the issue is two fold, previous elections (recent past) have never had such a push by either party to disenfranchise so many voters. Secondly the small percentages of fraud in no way merits the kind of sweeping effort that the Republicans are foisting on our system, I hold to my point that it is only the fact that this President holds office, there is no other logical conclusion one can come to.
The opportunity is there for people to run stop signs when no one’s looking. Does that mean that we install cameras at every stop sign?
Really reaching with this lame analogy.
You can rob a bank twice too. Or a liquor store. There is always the opportunity for breaking the law or election fraud. But there is a greater risk for organized fraud with electronic voter machines than what you outlined. One voter tempted to break the law has no statistical significance. Diebold? That’s another story.
I’m a Republican. I have three sons in the US ARMY and I vote for them. I’m just kidding about voting for them, but I could very easily do this. The person that asks me my name is around 80 years old. She needs frequent breaks and her 80 year old friend relieves her. I can ask my neighbor if he’s gonna vote and if he says no…that’s five votes for LePage. You lefties may want to think about asking for identification when we vote.
If you have proof of this or witnessed this, why didn’t you turn the clerk in for allowing voter fraud. If not then I might suggest that you are, in the least, making up fairy tales.
That’s a poor argument. You’re just saying you could break the law if you wanted to.
I have a car that can go over 100 MPH, that’s over the limit, but I could do it if I wanted to.
I have a gun and could go off-season hunting if I wanted to.
You’re punishing legal voters simply because you have the ability to break the law. It’s kind of silly.
I’m 80 years old and I’ve worked at the polls most of my adult life. I resent your suggestion that we can’t identify impersonators! For one thing, I think I’ve been pretty alert most of my life, and I don’t know of ANYONE who would ever do what you have described. Why would they? I don’t think you would do it, either. That’s the whole point. Why don’t you volunteer to work at the polls some year, and see what the checks and balances really are! ….. Please pass on my thank you to your sons in the US Army. My father and two uncles fought in WWII and I respect all service people.
Yes, voting is a right granted by the Constitution, but only to US citizens. That is all the more reason to ask for ID. Using the excuse that it’s difficult to get a proper ID is just ridiculous. People have no problem getting & using an ID when they want benefits.
Is there a problem where non-citizens are voting?
What’s ridiculous is that this burden is being placed on people in the effort to address a problem that has no impact. And who is impacted by these laws?
What do you suppose Thomas Jefferson used for ID?
Thats right, —Face Regonition!
That was a lot easier with 100 people, rather then 60,000 living in your town.
Yeah, and the busloads of UMO students driving around the area to vote kept getting stuck in the Cordroy Roads each November…
LOL
I would imagine someone prominent like Jefferson would be easier to recognize than Joe Blow the farmer
She doesn’t collect Social Security? She needed ID for that. I wonder why you assume that anyone who wants to ensure the integrity of our vote is going to vote Republican? Why do you think that the people are so helpless, can’t get ID, and are Democrats?
You also see fit to attack my intelligence by suggesting that this isn’t “intelligent stuff”. Obviously, I must support tax shelters for billionaires, right? Very open minded and enlightened of you.
No, just facing facts. Hurts to be called out doesn’t it?
No, she would have needed a Birth Certificate and her SS card/number, neither of which would allow her to vote if an ID was required.
We should all void the last election because the Republicans are claiming that voter fraud effected the outcome. They did the investigation and didn’t find vast voter fraud. In all likelyhood if the fraud that allowed them to win were discovered they would have to confess to their own fraud. Therefore we should satisfy their wishes and void that election and hold new elections with international monitors.
Not all elderly vote Dem. If the elderly not having IDs is a HUGE problem, just amend the law that any one born before 1950 will not need a picture ID. I can’t understand why anyone would appose voter ID. All it ask, is to prove you are who you say you are. Mel
Why should we prove who we are? Are we being accused of NOT being who we say we are?
This attitude of having to prove our innocence (“if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about”) is becoming too pervasive and increasingly un-American.
No matter how it eventually works out, or what laws are made or changed, I LOVE the suggestion that we can stop worrying about those people over 72. My 83-year-old friend has lost (or accidentally destroyed years ago) his birth certificate and not even his competent daughters can manage to get a replacement from some New York City hospitals (he’s not sure which one, but they’ve contacted every single one). They’ve told him he can’t renew his drivers license. He has voted in Boothbay for 50 years; wouldn’t you think that would count for something?
That is exactly what the GOP wants. Minorities, poor, women, and elderly are more likely to vote Democrat. It’s garbage, nationwide they checked 146,000,000 cases of possible voter fraud and substantiated 10 ( and several of them were unintended by the voter). That number was reported in this news media a couple of weeks ago. Republican candidates are getting desperate.
So move on conservatives, the right wing topic, now, is defining legitimate vs. illegitimate, like the terms are used to describe the crime of rape.
Get with the real conservative agenda.
So now, relative to real voter fraud, as it really is occurring in Maine,
Mr. Charley, if the GOTea Party plan is to seat ten of the twenty elected delegates pledged to Ron Paul, and ten others, pledged to Willard Romney:
which ten are illegitimate and so voting fraud ?
I know what a legitimate rape is. No, it’s not one that is LEGAL, but the far left insists on interpreting it as such – thinking most of us are fools -to twist around what Republican U.S. Rep. Akin was intending to say.
Now, do you want me to tell you what a legitimate rape is? Among several uses of the term “legitimate”, my dictionary defines it as follows: “able to be defended with logic or justification, as a “legitimate excuse for being late”. In that context a legitimate rape is one that is not fabricated like some are for selfish reasons.
One does not need to be a rocket scientist to determine what U.S. Rep. Akin meant when he used the phrase “legitimate rape”. But the left, assisted by the fawning media, can’t ever be seen on the losing side. So they twist the truth – in other words, lie – in order to get their way.
So which set of GOP Convention delegates is “fabricated ” so Maine’s only real, documented voter fraud ?
That is the question.
I suggest you start reading other sources of news besides the BDN that reports only the negatives about the Republicans (unless the Republicans happen to support their liberal views) and the good things about the Democrats. When I did that I realized not long after just how totally politicized this paper and most others are. I also switched political affiliation because the Democrat Party of the past left me behind with their left-wing ideology.
Republican Senator Norman Coleman of Minnesota lost his seat in the 2008 election to Saturday Night Live Comedian Al Franken in an election recount where Franken was determined to have won by a mere margin of 312 votes. Months later, it was discovered that at least 341 felons in the largely Democrat Minneapolis-St. Paul area had voted illegally. Undoubtedly there were more felons that voted illegally statewide. On account of this there is no telling who really won the election. Democrats in Minnesota like in Maine always maintained there was no need to fix the system to prevent fraud. Now I know exactly why they feel that way. They are not interested in fair elections. All that really matters is that they win the election. Interestingly, like most Mainers, I had to go out of my way to register to vote. Now people on food stamps and welfare don’t need to do that. Registration forms are sent to them but not everybody else. I wonder why just them and not everyone one else. My guess is that the rest of us are not Democrat enough. If you are part of a group that does not consistently vote Democrat you are treated as a second-class citizen.
I don’t know where you got your numbers. Mine came from a BDN run story last week. Reportedly 146,000,000 votes nationwide were investigated and only 10 were fraudulent, and some of those mistakenly. I believe this is a blatant GOP attempt to discourage some poorer and older voters just not to bother. I don’t vote party lines, I vote for the person I believe has our best interests at heart. I do know that the biggest case of voter fraud in history was the Florida debacle in Bush vs. Gore. The GOP used stall tactics and political favors to give Bush the State and the win without counting thousands of legal Florida votes.Everyone that followed up on the aftermath of that election knows that Gore was the actual winner, or would have been had Bush let it play out instead of filing lawsuits and objections that halted the vote counting several times. I do not believe that voter fraud is widespread, at least on the voting publics behalf.
“Everyone that followed up on the aftermath of that election knows that
Gore was the actual winner”. Everyone?? You had better check out your facts again.
If I recall correctly, several newspapers in Florida did their own
analysis using different counting methods. Only one out of five or six
of them determined Gore had won. The rest came to the conclusion Bush
had won. Once again, if I recall correctly, the Gore team wanted to
change the rules for counting votes that were set by state law. That’s
like trying to switches horses in the middle of a race when one senses
he or she is losing.
The information concerning the voting irregularity in Minnesota is accurate. But there are some folks like the so-called President of Iran (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) who insist the Holocaust in Germany never occurred. That’s because they can’t seem to deal with sticky facts.
One more thing, I think you need to reread that BDN report you read last week. I didn’t read it but the 146 million votes nationwide that were cast by voters were not investigated as you stated. Anyway, if you did investigate them, you would only find a trail of ballots (paper and electronic) with names checked out by an anonymous voter.
No disrespect to your Mother, but times do change. A photo ID is needed for everything , I fail to see what ones party affiliation has to do with this issue? BTW I hope she is well and is around for a long time!
After four generations of our family living in Bangor, we just moved to GA. At my next driver’s license renewal, I’ll need to obtain and provide: A Certified Copy of my birth certificate at EMH AND a Certified Copy of my middle name change 20 years ago.
Sure, it’ll be a one-time pain.
Certainly, it’ll mean my singular vote will carry the weight it deserves by keeping illegal votes from being counted.
When, oh when, with the BDN fianlly drop by Bangor City Hall, and inspect the hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of First-Class post cards sent out by the City Clerk to all who voted… and which were returned as “Undeliverable As Addressed”?
Does anyone actually believe hundreds of Bangor voters suddenly, and legally, moved to another town immediately after voting? Good luck with that!
Here’s the important question-WHAT ILLEGAL VOTES. Out of millions of votes checked, 10 were to be found irregular, and the majority of those were found to be clerk error, NOT FRAUD. With the one actual case of fraud in Maine, while committing voter fraud was not the intent, it happened becaue the person was able to register WITH A PHOTO ID. So remind me again how this all eliminates a non-existent problem. All this blather about illegal votes reminds me all too strongly of the events leading up to WWII in Europe-the same complaints, the same “solutions,” the same “righteous indignation.”
You can check all the votes you want, the only information you will find on each of them – besides instructions – is a list of names of political candidate and ballot questions, and the selections of these made by the anonymous voter who cast the ballot. A better way to detect fraud is to examine the registration list itself to see who voted. This was done in Minnesota where Republican Senator Norman Coleman of Minnesota lost his seat in the 2008 election to Saturday Night Live Comedian Al Franken in an election recount where Franken was determined to have won by a mere margin of 312 votes. Months later, after the investigation of the registration list was completed it was discovered that at least 341 felons in the largely Democrat Minneapolis-St. Paul area had voted illegally. Undoubtedly there were more felons that voted illegally statewide, not to mention people who voted illegally by using a dead person’s name on the voter registration or by voting in someone’s stead. Had Minnesota paid more attention to its voter registration list and ID’d people who presented themselves to vote, all this fraud could have been avoided. And guess what? The outcome of this close election could very well have been different.
By the way WT Sawyer, here’s what you wrote on the same topic on Nov. 5, 2011:
“I’ve seen, first hand, the hundreds if not thousands of 1st class postcards sent out by the Bangor City Clerk to everyone who voted, that were returned as “undeliverable as addressed” immediately AFTER an election. Since they were sent out 1st class, the US Post Office is required to forward them if the address on the registration card is no longer valid and a valid forwarding address has been filed with them.Does anyone honestly beleive thousands of honest voters suddenly moved out of Bangor and found it unecessary to notify the Post Office of their new address?”
Here’s your post from June 7, 2011:”I don’t know whether this has impacted Bangor elections, or not, but there were 4,000 new voters during one November election. Does anyone think 4,000 people actually moved into Bangor in one year?
Why don’t you ask Bangor City Clerk for a copy of the hundreds of returned post cards sent out to “new” voters after each election. All these First Class cards are returned as “undeliverable as addressed”. Do you really think that many honest voters ‘left town’ right after voting?”
You keep making the same claim, time and again, in March of 2011, again in July of 2011, and you seem to be the ONLY one with this so-called knowledge. If it were as you claim, I’m sure that the information would have come out publicly other than through your posts in response to news articles. The odd thing is, that there would be no need, and I have never heard of the need, for any clerk to send out post-cards to everyone who voted or even every “new” voter.
wtsawyer has no clue as to why those post cards were sent out in the first place (to determine if if registered voters who had not voted for 2 elections were still living at their listed address) and is spouting off about somethign he is totally wrong about.
You are wrong about the post cards for people who voted.
The post cards go out to registered voters who HAVE NOT voted for 2 election cycles. These cards are sent out to determine if the voter is still living at the address listed. If the post cards is returned “Undeliverable As Addressed” then that voter goes on to the next step needed in order to remove them from the Voter Rolls.
If a Registered Voter votes then there is NO post card sent to them.
How do I know this? I used to work for a company that designed Voter Registration software and I had lots of questions on the process for removing a voter from the Rolls each election cycle.
what about my friend that can not get a birth certificate? He needs a valid ID to get one, but can’t get a Vaild ID with out a birth certificate?
Catch 22 R style.
I think we should have voting online. That way the Mexicans and Canadians and other future beneficiaries of my tax dollars can make their voice heard – just like liberals want. After all, there is no evidence that anyone would ever take advantage of a system like that, so why not do it?
That’s rich.
And true. The lib’s want to get all the votes they can. Doesn’t matter if the voter is here legally or even alive.
Really?
I’ll go one further. Laughable if it didn’t have such serious consequences.
Is this an editorial, Mr. Long?
I can’t believe that this is a not an open and closed case. You have to show your driver’s license to buy lighters, spray paint, cold medicine, booze, smokes, renting movies, etc…
So with all those mundane reasons to show ID, voting for the person who is running the country is not enough of a reason to do so?
all those things are not in the consititution are they?
Voter ID laws are fine if introduced overe a sufficient period of time for all voters to comply. The hurried introduction just prior to a presidential election smacks of alterior motivation, as is clearly the case in the GOP’s efforts in various states. Voter fraud is nearly non-existent and the rush to change the system in a single year is little more than an effort to affect voting outcomes. That in itself constitutes voting fraud.
How does your mother get around to vote then? Do you help her with her vote? If she can go out for some errands, then it wouldn’t be too hard to get an ID then.
Cmon, how hard is it to get an ID? How much does it cost to get a birth cert $15 for State of Maine? Many claim it’s like a poll tax. Showing that you are a legal citizen of the US and voting is a small price.
OK what if the state reimbursed you, if you can show that you paid extra for the certification for ID? would you then be OK with that?
You can do what ifs all you want, but the state doesn’t do that and it isn’t part of the proposals either to provide free IDs. In the article it points out that half of American women don’t have the same name as they did when they were born. Students move frequently and it doesn’t make sense for them to get a new ID every single time they move which can be more frequently than once a year.
If you can’t point to real examples of fraud, then why would you burden people in this way? There needs to be a balance between the size of the problem and the size of the solution. We put up with 25-30 MPH speed limits in residential areas because while it can be inconvenient at times, it is worth that “cost” because it increases safety. You are unable to prove that requiring all these documents to vote is worth the cost of the benefit it provides.
A function adult in this society should have at least one valid form of ID. I don’t care what the excuse is. It benefits the ID holder and everyone else.
Then the Party of Small Government should force everyone to get a federally mandated ID card.
Problem solved.
Yessah
More and more it’s the Party of me-me-me and hypocrisy.
It’s called a social security card.
There is no picture on my SS card.
nope
If you want to have a discussion, you have to move beyond the repeating the same condescending phrases over and over.
How are my phrases condescending?
,,,,,
How is showing proper ID voter suppression?
If you are 85 with no drivers licence or passport and do not have a copy of your birth certificate – the GOP does not want you to vote.
If you live in the city – don’t own a car and do not have a passport or a drivers licence – the GOP does not want you to vote.
If you 18 and do not have a drivers licence or a passport – the GOP does not want you to vote.
Voter suppression.
Yessah
Your political leanings are clouding your judgment. It’s common sense to expect a person in this world to have at least one form of ID. It’s not suppressing voters in the least. If anything it would help to prevent fraud.
No – your tea is boggling your judgement.
The Party of Small Government wants to prevent people – who have lawfully voted all their lives without ID – from voting.
An 85 YO woman without driving privileges would be force by the GOP to spend lots of money ($195??) to get a passport – that is, if she had a birth certificate.
And many very elderly people do not have them.
The GOP wants to punish law abiding voters.
Poll tax
Voter suppression.
Vote the Teahadists out this November.
Yessah
Obama could get her one .
But Obama cold not get one because his “forged” birth certificate – LOL!
Yessah
These specious arguments for voter ID get more and more ridiculous. Keep it up, just shooting yourself in the foot.
I am by no means a tea party supporter. This shows your ignorance to any discussion.
“Oh someone has a different opinion than me so they must be be part of the party I dislike!”
Look past party lines. Not every issue is red/blue.
Sometimes it’s lavender.
As before, you accuse other of being political with no foundation. Sauce for the goose …
YOUR political leanings are clouding your judgment. There is no evidence of voter fraud. Even if you can find one example of it, it would essentially be one grain of rice of a 10 pound bag of rice needed to actually sway an election.
If there is no problem, why are you so intent on pushing a solution? That is incredibly suspect to me.
I didn’t say there is a problem. It is a preventative measure. There is a difference.
We vote every year, so it’s stupid to try and claim you’re doing this as a preventative measure.
As it is, there is no ID requirement and no evidence of fraud. What are you trying to prevent? There is no evidence of anything that needs preventing. Nothing has changed, so why the sudden need? Why will this year be different? Why will this year suddenly have fraud that needs this preventative measure?
I don’t think you’re being honest here.
Preventative measures are already in place, and have obviously done very well.
Sounds more like non-political, intelligent thinking. By accusing him of being political with with opinion, you imply that your defense of voter ID is purely political (as admitted by that Party hack in PA).
…
Tarzan wannabes?
Where did this Summers come from or I mean how is the Secretary of State placed, election or appointment?? I cannot believe the people of Maine deserve this, what seems to be a very off center vacant puppet on a string. No, I be wondering, who be pulling the strings?
When Republicans have publicly admitted that they voter fraud issues are being raised only to get a win for Romney and the GOP, when study after study shows there is about as much a risk of voter fraud as their is being struck by lightening, and when it is Republican leadership deliberately create hardship and expense for poor and minority voters on a national scale to engage in their rights as citizens, every thing is suspect. Sorry. People who create a problem where no problem exists do so for motivation that are usually dishonest to the core. Voter suppression is the worse kind of treason in a representative government.
The opposition to a photo ID is an insult to the people who fought for our democracy and freedom. Respect their sacrifice by ensuring the integrity of our voting process. Just to put it simply: democrats fear honesty and are selfish.
Really? My father fought for my right to show papers and prove who I am before I can vote because people think I’m committing voter fraud? I wish he were here so I could verify that.
Simply put, many of those who want people to prove their innocence at the voting booth buy into the GOP lies that demonize minorities and young people as well as those who question big government and surveillance.
What a disgusting comment. Disagree with them all you want, but don’t claim it’s about fearing honesty and being selfish. What’s selfish is lying about a problem that doesn’t exist and using it as an excuse to discourage and burden voters. Some of the GOP leaders have been lying and accusing others of voter fraud when their votes were completely legal. You call that honesty? You call that being selfless?
0909090
What Tex really means is that there has been great sacrifice for this country by many people who have put their lives on the line and many lost their lives. It was not as you say “to show their papers”. It was to protect America and the American way of life. I realize it may be a bit of a stretch to say that our warriors died for our voting system, but there is a connection. There is a definate tug of war between left and right and voting laws is just one little battle in that war. The ‘right’ wants more protections in place…the left want less. In my case, because of my background of having fought in Vietnam and then having spent a career of working many years with the Border Patrol on the Mexican border I’d like to see more voting law protection. This country has now accepted the permanent presence of millions and millions of both legal and illegal aliens. Only US citizens have the right to vote, but there are very few safeguards in place to protect that right. I could go on and on, but I don’t have the time. Thanks (I haven’t proof read this)
The GOP hates democracy and free & fair elections.
Vote the bums out this November.
Yessah
What Would Reagan Do?
I doubt he’d be for all this big government nonsense that the GOP is all about now….
Reagan wouldn’t be a member, what the Republican Party has morphed into would spit him out for not being extreme enough. The Giper would be sittin’ this one out, not even allowed to suit up and put his cleats on.
That’s a nice little ignorant accusation.
No worse than yours.
More like an apparently valid accusation.
What really gets me is that many here and elsewhere in the country have lives that require them to show ID everywhere. They buy alcohol and Hannaford and have no issue with showing ID even though they’re in the 30’s. They go to banks where tellers don’t know them. They carry ID with them when they go for walks. They gladly take their US passport with them to the airport to fly from Bangor to Ohio. At the same time, they have no idea, and no desire to know, that there are others around the country who have lives that are very different. People who have different priorities, different circumstances, different upbringings, etc. They think that EVERYONE must be like they are when, in fact, their way of life is only one of many here in this big country.
But-many people don’t.
IS there fraud?
Wonderful job of name calling there. Intellectual capacity failing you, is it? Unless you personally know Earthling3, then you have no business calling him/her a liar. Some people DO NOT collect Social Security. Neither my spouse and I will be able to collect Social Security as we both work in the public sector and pay into a separate pension plan rather than Social Security which (paying into SS or not) is not by choice but BY LAW. Better educate yourself before you attack someone and put your ignorance on display for the world to see.
You’re placing your own values on every single American from Maine to Hawaii. You must know that not everyone in this country lives their lives exactly as you live yours.
Wow, My parents are 86 and 92 and don’t mind showing one.Set up an appointment and help her get one.
An 85 year old person has to show an ID to buy a cold beer at a Sea Dogs game.
And that is stupid and wrong. I am clearly over 21 yet I am asked to show ID, AND have it scanned by the computer, when I buy alcohol at Target. This blanket monitoring of the citizenry that doesn’t allow for free thinking is worrisome.
No, more like a verification to protect against litigation.
,,,
Why should everything be reactive instead of proactive? Why does something have to fail first, before it should be fixed? You don’t drive around with squeaky brakes before they fail (if you do, then there are issues). At work do you just sit around and do the same thing everyday and not pay a whit of how it might be done better, faster, or cheaper? Or are you just going to go in and do the same thing b/c you’re gonna get paid for 8 hours no matter what?
If something is less than ideal, then why not tweek it, oh b/c it’s inconvenient and don’t want to be bothered by it.
Then we SHOULD put cameras everywhere because the possibility exists, everyday and everywhere, that any or all of us might do something illegal and we must be stopped.
Joe, didn’t say illegal, just how to make things work/run smoother. If you don’t fine, but most companies are into trying to streamline processes to get the most bang for the buck.
It wouldn’t, but if you take away the senior citizens then that’s 1 less vote conservatively, thus making it a +1 for the progressive side
I dont care how this liberal tabloid rag spins the story, Summers has got my vote…!
Spin? Read again. In many cases they were giving valid recommendations for valid modifications but against voter ID. And where were you and other backers of this political policy? So subversive you were afraid to show your face and voice your misguided opinions?
You would think the DEMS would be all on this as this would enable more young ones to vote. It’s usually the seniors that have the highest % in voting and usually seniors are the ones with more conservative viewpoints.
How would this enable MORE people to vote?
Gee, who thinks LeSummers still doesn’t get it? This whole debacle is just a national GOP agenda to limit voter rights and it is so obvious, a person would have to live in the Blaine House to not see it.
So my question is this: who is paying for this commission to try to dig up nonexistent dirt?
If you only had a clue.
I have been very interested in this topic since Charles Webster started making an issue of it. I personally spoke to Mr. Charles Summers at the Brewer Pancake breakfast on July 4 of this year. He felt very strongly about being able to produce a picture ID in order to cast a vote. So I related to him a personal experience with presenting, or attempting to present, a picture ID. On our way back to the US after a trip to Canada, my husband and I were required to go through American customs at the airport in Montreal. We were not asked, “Are you American citizens?” Instead we were asked where we were born. My husband duly produced his American passport as he answered, “In Canada.” Then I had to tell this lady where I was born. I was born in Europe. She asked, “Are you an American citizen?” to which I replied in the affirmative and was quick to say, “however, I do not have my passport with me.” My husband then said, “But she has her driver’s license!” to which this lady replied, “SIR! That only proves she can drive.” Now what? So I told her place and date where and when I became an American citizen. She said, “Okay, show me your Green Card.” I was stunned. “MY Green Card? They took that from me when I became an American citizen!” It was then that she allowed me to continue through Customs. Of course, I only realized when I sat in my seat in the airplane that that had been a trick question. If I had shown my Green Card, I think I would have been quickly cuffed and led to a small, separate room. It had been a traumatic moment. I told Mr. Summers that I had registered to vote in 5 different states and had never, NEVER, been asked to show proof that I was eligible, as an American citizen, to register to vote. I only have to open my mouth and anyone can tell I was not born in this country. I could tell that Mr. Summers had never thought of that requirement either. It was an Aha! moment for him, I am sure. Now my point is: how many people are registering to vote even though they are not US citizens? It is not just in the state of Maine that I was not asked to provide proof of eligibility. Four other states in the nation neglected to check my eligibility. So ineligible people could cast a ballot. To me, THAT is fraud! I had to show a birth certificate when I arrived at the DMV a few years ago to replace my driver’s license which I had lost. Went back home, got it, and presented it to the clerk. She looked at that lengthy document and condescendingly said, “I can’t read that!” I said, very politely, “Ma’am, it is written in four languages and one of them is English.” I got my driver’s license. Oh, and by the way, you do not need to be an American citizen to get a driver’s license. That is another myth that many people believe. But you do need to be an American to cast a vote. And that is exactly what I intend to do come November! As I have been doing ever since I was given that right on the day I became a citizen of this country back in 1967.
I have been very interested in this topic since Charles Webster started making an issue of it. I personally spoke to Mr. Charles Summers at the Brewer Pancake breakfast on July 4 of this year. He felt very strongly about being able to produce a picture ID in order to cast a vote. So I related to him a personal experience with presenting, or attempting to present, a picture ID. On our way back to the US after a trip to Canada, my husband and I were required to go through American customs at the airport in Montreal. We were not asked, “Are you American citizens?” Instead we were asked where we were born. My husband duly produced his American passport as he answered, “In Canada.” Then I had to tell this lady where I was born. I was born in Europe. She asked, “Are you an American citizen?” to which I replied in the affirmative and was quick to say, “however, I do not have my passport with me.” My husband then said, “But she has her driver’s license!” to which this lady replied, “SIR! That only proves she can drive.” Now what? So I told her place and date where and when I became an American citizen. She said, “Okay, show me your Green Card.” I was stunned. “MY Green Card? They took that from me when I became an American citizen!” It was then that she allowed me to continue through Customs. Of course, I only realized when I sat in my seat in the airplane that that had been a trick question. If I had shown my Green Card, I think I would have been quickly cuffed and led to a small, separate room. It had been a traumatic moment. I told Mr. Summers that I had registered to vote in 5 different states and had never, NEVER, been asked to show proof that I was eligible, as an American citizen, to register to vote. I only have to open my mouth and anyone can tell I was not born in this country. I could tell that Mr. Summers had never thought of that requirement either. It was an Aha! moment for him, I am sure. Now my point is: how many people are registering to vote even though they are not US citizens? It is not just in the state of Maine that I was not asked to provide proof of eligibility. Four other states in the nation neglected to check my eligibility. So ineligible people could cast a ballot. To me, THAT is fraud! I had to show a birth certificate when I arrived at the DMV a few years ago to replace my driver’s license which I had lost. Went back home, got it, and presented it to the clerk. She looked at that lengthy document and condescendingly said, “I can’t read that!” I said, very politely, “Ma’am, it is written in four languages and one of them is English.” I got my driver’s license. Oh, and by the way, you do not need to be an American citizen to get a driver’s license. That is another myth that many people believe. But you do need to be an American to cast a vote. And that is exactly what I intend to do come November! As I have been doing ever since I was given that right on the day I became a citizen of this country back in 1967.