Placing new obstacles between voters and the ballot box will not protect the integrity of an election system in which Mainers can take pride.
Requiring voters to produce photo identification at the polls would waste resources and stifle participatory democracy in the guise of solving a problem that doesn’t exist, as more than a dozen speakers suggested Aug. 23 during the first in a series of public forums hosted by a five-member commission appointed in May to explore ways to improve the state’s election system.
Legitimate voter turnout in the Pine Tree State consistently ranks at or near the top nationally, and recent research into alleged voter fraud in Maine and nationally reveals remarkably few irregularities.
The data from both sides in the debate on whether to tighten student residency rules or to require photo identification at polling places — including a 2011 study ordered by Secretary of State Charlie Summers — provide ample evidence to show that Maine’s municipal poll workers handle elections efficiently, reliably and with great precision. They treat seriously the public trust invested in them and protect it diligently.
Adding new polling place mandates such as the government-issued photo identification laws adopted by some states would unnecessarily burden election clerks and complicate a voting process that should be easy and direct.
More important, requiring photo identification or forcing poll workers to more aggressively challenge voters to meet legal residency definitions would disproportionately harm segments of the population already threatened with disenfranchisement.
Studies by the Brennan Center for Justice show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters don’t possess government-issued photo ID cards — and face major barriers to acquiring them. For more than one in 10 Americans, showing a photo ID isn’t as simple as reaching into a wallet and pulling out a license.
As older Mainers, women whose names changed as a result of marriage or divorce, people with disabilities, people of color, low-income voters or homeless shelter guests eloquently told the commission on Aug. 23, they aren’t new voters. In many cases, they’re people who’ve voted for decades but who no longer possess valid driver’s licenses or who never had need of a passport. The cost of procuring birth certificates or other documents the government requires before issuing a photo ID poses a hardship. In essence, it indirectly charges a fee for voting.
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People describes casting a ballot as “the nation’s great equalizer because it is one of the few instances in which our voice, opinions, and the legacy we seek to leave future generations, readily crosses the expansive divide that is race and class in this country.”
Beyond affirming that fundamental principle of what Thomas Jefferson in 1801 described as “the elective franchise” and “the only legitimate foundation of any government,” promoting full access to the polls has a practical application.
“To be able to vote keeps you connected to your community,” said Thomas Ptacek of Homeless Voices for Justice.
Polling places in Maine must remain accessible, and requiring a photo ID to vote puts that accessibility at risk. More people should be exercising their right to vote, not fewer.
Bunk. Total bunk. There is no excuse for not having a photo ID in this day and age. And it is the responsibility of the ID holder to make sure it is current. There is no intended disenfranchising involved in the ID issue; just a desire to make the system fair.
Without a photo ID requirement, far too many people can vote more than once by just going from district to district. And far too many dead people end up voting. Of course, since there are no rules in place, it’s hard to prove that any fraud is happening, even though most people know that it is.
Any evidence of significant voter fraud? From our own BDN, the following:
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/08/12/politics/voter-fraud-nearly-non-existent-data-show/
Compared to the number of people flying on planes, how many have died as a result of a terrorist attack? Almost zero, yet we have to show identification and go through security checks. Try applying your logic to other scenarios.
PS – they just discovered 22,000 dead people who are still registered to vote in Chicago. How would someone go about proving voter fraud if I were to go in and use the name of a dead person on an anonymous ballot without asking for my ID?
Isn’t is funny how voting is the only time in the life of a liberal that they support the honor system?
Let’s see, the dead voter would show as having voted when they were checked off as they entered the poll. Since this did not happen then there is no voter fraud.
How many people do you think died in Chicago in the past year? 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 or more? Just because a name is still on the voter roill does not mean there is voter fraud. It means that they just have not been removed yet. How fast do you thing a dead voter or a voter that moved is removed from a voter list? Instantaneously?
It’s not fraud until someone comes in knowing which name they are going to use that is deceased, then get checked off against the name. That is fraud, and it happens.
And yet, the Bush Administration spend millions of dollars and 5 years investigating voter fraud and found all of 86 cases out of over 190 million votes.
I suppose if all 86 votes were cast in a local dog catcher’s election it could sway the vote but I just don’t see it affecting important elections.
Guess we don’t have to worry about them voting, do we? As for your 1st paragraph, getting desperate for analogies aren’you.
What’s funny is that you make such a statement without anyone knowing what the heck you’re talking about.
So, Chicago-IS there documented voter fraud there?
100% agree EJ!
Voter fraud may not be a major issue in Maine, but it sure is in other States. But far be it from anyone to say you must prove you are who you say you are before participating in something as important as an election.
That is a complete and total LIE. And you know it. Stop it ! Just stop it ! 86 cases of vote fraud NATIONALLY over the last 200 MILLION votes cast. These delusional LIES need to stop. It is SINFUL.
That’s not correct. Try this out….
“In-person voter-impersonation fraud is rare. The database shows 207
cases of other types of fraud for every case of voter impersonation.
“The fraud that matters is the fraud that is organized. That’s why voter
impersonation is practically non-existent because it is difficult to do
and it is difficult to pull people into conspiracies to do it,” said
Lorraine Minnite, professor of public policy and administration at
Rutgers University.There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than
any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot
fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the
polls would not have prevented these cases. “The one issue I think is
potentially important, though more or less ignored, is the overuse of
absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and
intimidation than on-site voter fraud,” said Daniel Lowenstein, a UCLA
School of Law professor.Of reported election-fraud allegations in the
database whose resolution could be determined, 46 percent resulted in
acquittals, dropped charges or decisions not to bring charges. Minnite
says prosecutions are rare. “You have to be able to show that people
knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong and they did it
anyway,” she said. “It may be in the end” that prosecutors “can’t really
show that the people who have cast technically illegal ballots did it
on purpose.”Felons or noncitizens sometimes register to vote or cast votes
because they are confused about their eligibility. The database shows 74
cases of felons voting and 56 cases of noncitizens voting.” (source NBC News)
Yes, it is rare but its not “86 cases”
If the issue is other types of voter fraud, not voter-impersonation fraud, how much of it will be solved by requiring everyone to present a photo ID at the polls?
How do we know that it isn’t a problem, if our loose voting requirements don’t allow us to have an effective way to even track voter fraud??
Precisely why the left screams “disenfranchisement” every time an attempt is made to address the issue. They know the fraud exists and it benefits them.
MBE
Really? Where, in this country, does voter fraud exists AND it exists in such a way as to help the Democrats?
The pure logic is that there have been studies, including here in Maine, to try to prove evidence of voter fraud. http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/08/12/politics/voter-fraud-nearly-non-existent-data-show/
Personally, I don’t need a “study” to tell me how I should think. That way of reasoning is indicative of a classic “groupthink” mentality, which is a very dangerous recent contaminant in our freedom-based society.
Ever hear of Kennedy and Illinois?
Ever hear of Bush and Florida?
Or Gore in Florida denying overseas military ballots.
Ever heard of the recall election in Wisconsin where everyone who signed the recall petition was called and told that they didn’t need to show up to vote as they had already done the job?
The call was traced to a republican center.
I thought George Bush made the calls himself.
That’s it EJP, when you don’t have a real response, just deflect!
I’m sorry. I forgot that the left has no sense of humor.
Your facts are generally lies and your jokes generally aren’t funny.
Common recurrent
Republican theme!
Im sorry too..That Repubs have no sense of honesty.
Humor? Where? Where?
You mean he who’s name you shall not speak?
LOL
Were there charges as there should have been or is it all just rumor?
You have a Computer and you don’t believe me anyway!
look it up!
Was anyone charged with a crime? Anyone?
No???
Then maybe there is no reason to believe you.
Rumormonger.
Do you believe everything your read on the internet?
And you have proof of this?
Don’t bother to mention that thousands of the recall signatures weren’t able to be confirmed.
How stupid would a person have to be to see there’s an election going on and think, “Well, I signed that board, I must be all set.”?
Once again, give me proof. Did CNN say this? Did ABC, NBC,CBS, PBS? Did the NYT?
Understand that sending me to MOVEON .ORG or the Huffington post is not giving you any credibility?
I returned to Maine a few years ago after a decade in Madison/ Most of the state considers the capital as an island lacking common sense among more down to earth surrounding communities.
Tell ya what else bothers me. people such as yourself cannot accept defeat. If you lose someone lied.
You have the audacity to complain about filibustering by the RNC and yet at the same time consider the Cowardly Wisconsin 14 HEROES for essentially pulling a filibuster on steroids when what they really did was run away stomping their feet like children because they couldn’t have their way.
What defeat must they admit?
Look for it yourself!
If you don’t believe me PROVE that I am wrong!It was all over the news the night of the recall election.Look it up yourself, Credible Sources? Try fact check or Politifact,the last time that I posted a link I was told by someone on here that I was painting bullseyes on the barn after I shot an arrow into it!Legislation is intended to involve ALL the parties not just an Agenda handed down to the Governor by ALEC with a gang of miscreant majority puppets to back it up!What these 14 where doing was forcing a dialog of reason against a tide of corruption!
This is another fairy tale. Bush and Harris wiping 10,000’s of voters off the rolls before the election because they has the same name as a felon was the real crime in Florida. Although it does bring up a good point. The use of absentee ballots are where fraud becomes much easier than anything mentioned here regarding ID’s. But because absentee ballots tend to skew Republican, none of the people who claim to be fighting fraud (and not suppressing Democratic votes) seem to mention it very much. Strange!
You don’t understand the absentee ballot system. In order to get one, and I had to get many since I was stationed overseas a lot, one has to positively identify oneself to an official in order to request the ballot, then they have to go back to that person and identify themselves once more in order to pick up the ballot. And if they don’t fill it out on the spot, they have to identify themselves when they bring it back and turn it in.
And the felon voting issue in Florida was by law. Felons should not be allowed to vote.
And what if the official is in collusion with the RNC?
If a felon has served his/her time they should be allowed to vote. In Maine they are allowed to vote absentee, though very few ever bother while incarcerated.
No one that is incarcerated should be allowed to vote. And as long as they are on parole, they shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
Your “what if” statement is ridiculous.
That is your opinion, not the law in Maine.
What if the official was in collusion with the DNC?
Just as rational either way.
I agree with that , this violate one law and forever forfeit all your rights as a citizen isn’t right!
If you paid your debt to society as legally declared by a court proceeding you have paid the price and that should be the end of it.
The local counties in Florida (Democrats) tried to discount military ballots because the military PO did not date the seals on the bags from overseas…. even though the ballots themselves were dated.
You are wrong about absentee ballots and how they generally work. As many people do, you have taken your personal experience and decided that must be the way it works for everyone:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/31/opinion/persily-voter-id-laws/index.html
Also, try rereading my point about felon’s again and see if you can read it correctly this time. “People who shared the same name as” was an important part of my point. Thanks.
Why shouldn’t felons be allowed to vote?
5 Florida counties discounted military ballots in Florida. They had to be sued in order for them to be counted.
It depends on the area/city which party.
wrong, AGAIN! check out the facts http://www.wrko.com/howie
Did you link to Howie Carr!?!?! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s rich.
No, seriously…I’m totally convinced……Pfffffffff.
H0w about Charlie Webster in Maine and NH republican Phone Jam, Watergate, Norquist the terrorist, Republicans know about voter fraud no wonder they are worried. What goes around comes around. How you like it now?
52 years ago? That is your example?
It was one of the more widespread well known cases. I could mention local Chicago elections from the time I lived in that city…. but you would discount that so why bother.
I also lived in the Chicago area. Boss Daley is long gone and I don’t see any recent verified voter fraud in Chicago or Illinois. Besides, how does this ancient history apply to Maine?
How about the member of the NAACP’s local executive committee in Tunica County, Miss. who was sentenced in April to five years in prison for voting in the names of ten voters, including four who were deceased.
Links please?
I’ve posted links twice and they’ve both been disappeared.
Do a Google search on Lessadolla Sowers, the perp.
Applicability to Maine?
How about the twelve Capricans who entered Tauron illegally and voted in the small town of Carillion to sway the vote the way Caprica wanted it?
86 DOCUMENTED cases. Hard to document something you are not going out and actively looking for. You need an I.D. for most anything in this country. Why is it such an issue to prove your own legitimacy when receiving a ballot? I’m sure if voter fraud was benefiting the right more than the left, you would feel differently. And since when does a modern democrat like yourself care about the act of SIN?
YOU need an ID for most anything in this country. Not everyone in this county is like you.
SO, what you are saying is that there are people that can get by without ever showing an I.D. for anything whatsoever in this country as long as they are alive. O.K. right. And yes, not everyone is like me. I’m not sure what that has to do with the subject.
Which states? Where is your proof?Election fraud is a problem as we saw in Florida some years ago..hanging chads and votes not counted.
If they really wanted to end voter and ” ELECTION ” fraud they would put a ten year mandatory sentence on the books!
Half ,The GOP would be in Jail!
And 3/4 of the Demiroids.
And most of Chicago
No it is not. Justice Dept says: A handful of convictions involved people who voted twice. More than 30 were
linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s
or judge’s races paid voters for their support. Sad huh? Our local ‘justice’ candidates committing fraud.
Delusional LIES with ZERO basis in fact. You should be ashamed.
I would be more concerned of the dead ones “with” the ID than without!
If you can get past the polls checkers and registration process with a little deceit and deception , you can do the same thing having a forged ID.
And that’s why there should also be mandatory pre-registration, like down here in Florida.
Zombies everywhere!
If that were the REAL reason, I’d agree with you. The fact is that republicans really don’t like democracy and would rather disenfranchise thousands in Maine , perhaps millions nationally to prevent the very few cases that actually have been proved. The real reason.. as they have come right out and stated in some cases, is to prevent those groups who normally vote democratic from voting. We monitor elections all around the world to help make sure that people who are able to vote are not prevented from doing so, but the or’s look to see how many here they can prevent from voting so they may steal elections. What you and others should be concerned about is election fraud( see Florida).republicans should be ashamed at what they’re doing, but it’s win any way one can.. even if we take away the most important right that citizens have- their suffrage!
You want to talk about Florida, then here goes. Rick Scott identified a problem with the voter rolls in Florida in that there were a significant number of multiple entries and deceased names on the rolls. All Gov. Scott wanted to do was clean up the lists. We already have photo ID and pre-registration in Florida, but because of the corrupt rolls there has been fraud, especially in the Southern portion of the state where many of the counties have been under Democrat rule for years.
Eric Holder (I’m sure you know that name) sued the state of Florida to keep Gov. Scott from cleaning up the lists claiming racial discrimination (of course) when, in fact, there was no evidence of discrimination at all. That’s why Holder lost this issue.
Now, if you don’t have a problem with multiple names and dead people on the voting rosters, then you’re showing your willingness to allow voter fraud.
It is a joke in FL. And the courts just said so.
Did you read the part where the Governor himself was declared ineligible to vote under his system? Along with 10,000’s of others who should have been eligible. Probably a flaw there!
And that’s one of the things he was attempting to correct when Holder sued the state.
Surrre he was …
And he went ahead anyway.
Why do I need to show a ID at all? I know who I is. Poor Undocumented
hard searching folk lookin for something good dont need all this ID
stuff. PLEASE stop and think what if you wanted to vote and then
someone said ‘ID punk’ wouldn’t you feel just awful. Dreadful just
dreadful this is to much to mourn this am.
That’s all poor misunderstood Gov. Scott wanted to do. Never mind that the goal was to remove the names of supposed illegal aliens and the only way to do would result in the purging of thousands of eligible voters. 8/31/2012 Huffington Post. “On Thursday, a Canadian man reportedly became the first — and so far only — legal casualty of Gov. Rick Scott’s controversial months-long purge of Florida voter rolls. … Scott has ordered that his controversial effort to remove possible non-citizens from voter lists continue, even after the Justice Department warned the state could be violating the 1964 Voting Rights Act and the National Voter Registration Act — and filed suit the stop the purge in June . The Florida Secretary of State’s office first removed 180,000 names from the list, then pared that purge down to 2,600 when many of those targeted turned out to be U.S. citizens or even war veterans.So far, Sever has been the only case sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement as a result of the purge, the Miami Herald reports.” I suppose it’s worth purging the names of eligible voters just so ONE fraudulent vote isn’t cast?
You make erroneous conclusions then accuse those who disagree with your reasoning as willing to allow voter fraud. You also imply that the reason why there is alleged corruption only in the south part of the state is due to years of Democrat rule. We see right through it.
Oh. The Huffington Post. Now that’s a reliable source for accurate information.
YES, YOu got it right. After the election these ‘cheaters’ tea party should be punished.
You are absolutely correct, E J. Why is the BDN ignoring the (left of center) Pew Center’s analysis that 1 in 8 voter registrations is somehow flawed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/us/politics/us-voter-registration-rolls-are-in-disarray-pew-report-finds.html
If it is in the NY Times, it must be true, right BDN?
We have over 12 million people here illegally. When just one of them decides to take advantage of our very lax voter registration and non-existant voter ID laws, then I am disenfranchised.
You have to wonder when Democrats in cities like Portland Maine want to register non-citizens to vote. Democrats sound so desperate for voters that they will register anyone. Why not vote twice?
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=135034
And Republican’s are so afraid of letting every legitimate voter vote they disenfranchise 10’s of thousands or more, as many as 700,000 in Pennsylvia alone.
And if thousands of Americans’ names are removed from the rolls just to catch that one illegal immigrant, then it’s worth it!!
Of course since even Charlie Summers couldn’t find out any of this your knowledge must come from secret sources. I begin to suspect you may have actually seen the dead people voting and talked to them to confirm they were dead.
You have posted bunk. Total bunk.
People aren’t inclined to go around committing felonies and certainly not this one.
In the political climate that exists today, there are people that will do anything to make sure their man or woman wins. If you can’t see that, then you need to get out more.
which is why we have these laws. They should just come out and say, there are a group of people that vote democratic and usually do not have ID. This is a way to get some of them not to vote. They should not lie, why they are doing it. Heck you can use your NRA card as ID but not studend ID? Crazy.
Why is it that the only people that don’t have photo IDs are Democrats? You’d think that since the Democrats claim to be compassionate and caring about their own people, that they would make sure their people have photo IDs. Maybe the Dems aren’t that compassionate and caring. Suppose?
We are going to make sure they have IDs. but ID’s cost money, in terms on the ID itself. the gas involved, getting the supporting documents. Democrats are going to try really hard to make sure people have ID’s so they can exercise there constitutional given right to vote. You know the constitution that republicans say they love. If they really loved it they would be making it easier to vote, not harder. Why haven’t they supported gun registration? because it is against the 2nd amendment?. The republicans are going to pass the laws and stop at that. They could less if they help people get ID’s. Republicans just need to stop lying and come out and just say why they are supporting this legislation.
Gun registration is the first step in gun confiscation. That’s why it’s unconstitutional.
Exactly. Registration. You have to provide some form of identification when you register to vote. It is up to your town clerk to verify your legitimacy.
But we have to register to vote? Voter registration is the first step to voter suppression! it should be unconstitutional! See you guys are hypocrites. Illegal guns are a problem in the USA, but republicans say no to gun registration, but are pushing Voter ID laws?
You really need to read what you just wrote. Illegal guns are a problem, but no matter what laws are put in place, illegal guns aren’t going to be registered. The gun control advocates know this and they know that the laws only effect legal guns owned by legal gun owners. A national gun registry will allow the government to confiscate legal guns only.
And voter registration is the first step to fair elections, not voter suppression. Just how could a legally registered voter have his or her vote suppressed?
Voter ID Laws only effect legal voters? Why have them? yes the government is going to confiscate all your guns, because the Supreme court didn’t rule that you have a right to them. Please, take your tin foil hate off.
Voter ID helps keep the illegal voters, multiple voters, and dead voters from voting for a Democrat. It does nothing to prevent legal voters from voting for a Democrat.
And a national gun registry is the first step to government confiscation of firearms. If you don’t believe me, just ask a Cuban or a Chinese or a Serbian or a WWII German, etc.
Which have not even been proven happens. But it does prevent legal voters from voting, because if they do not have an ID they can not vote. Only an ID will allow someone to vote? That is crazy. How about you can only go shoot your gun if you shot up at one place once a year and show ID? If you don’t then you can not shoot your gun for the whole year. Also your tin foil hat is on tight.
Charlie Summers said he could not prove voter fraud. Pennsylvania could not prove voter fraud. Maine did prove voter fraud. The Republicans stole the Ron Paul votes.
So your choice is to believe the wackos that think that if “most” poor, or people of color can vote then it is OK or you can believe the proven voter fraud committed against Maine by the Republicans.
I don’t support Ron Paul but I support his right to have votes for him counted.
At one site I posted a response was that fraud was OK as long as it prevented Obama from being elected.
Ah, but this is America, right?
Not if Obama gets 4 more years.
Google , Rockerfeller and Microchip Implants!
Fascism works best when they have you numbered , marked, identified and traceable!!
That slope is not anywhere near that slippery.
I think you’re seeing things that aren’t there.
For once I have to agree with EJ. In fact if anyone needs proof of what he says all they have to do is look at what happened to the Maine Delegation at last weeks Republican National Convention.
True, Republican’s try to take away anyone’s vote who they think will not vote for them or their way.
And that’s a good example?
So true. Voter ID is Republican/ALEC driven.
You don’t even read the articles, do you? You have no evidence of your claims.
I have been voting in my community for 28 years. I provided identification when I registered. I will not ever comply with any voter ID requirements. I am who I say I am until proven otherwise. That is what this country is founded on. Innocent until proven guilty. Which is what those staffing polling places do. Train them to identify suspicious behavior (it happens in retail regularly) and what little fraud does exist will become even less.
So, what you’re saying is that you never show a picture ID for any services at all? Interesting. You must live in a very small town.
I do not show an ID to pay my taxes and I will not show an ID to vote.
You pay taxes?
You are not as funny as you seem to think you are.
How about you? On time? Told the folks in the town office it is worth every penny I pay to live where I live. I am one grateful taxpayer. I truly appreciate the services I get for the amount I pay. Love my hometown. Love my state. Happy to help take care of it.
Thats Ironic!
Showing your Tax Receipt is proof of residency to vote!
Yes, it does sound like everyone is suspected of voter fraud until they show their ID to prove their innocence. (I’ve never liked that thumbprint the banks require, either, if you cash a check of theirs as a non-customer). Proving innocence shouldn’t be the American way.
The bunk is in what you said! There is no requirement in the Constitution that a person has to have a State issued ID card. In fact, there is no requirement other than being a citizen. You don’t even have to be able to read or write! Stop the Repub poo poo. If they have to do that to rig a vote, they have a serious problem. Right up there with the lies Ryan is telling.
What they’re pushing is a license to vote.
Exactly, we have to show our ID to cash a check, use a credit card, get on a plane, donate blood, pick up a prescription and buy alcoholic beverages….whats the problem with proving who you are when you vote?
None of those activities are protected by the constitution
When the State of Maine starts giving away photo ID’s for free, then lets talk, otherwise it is a poll tax. If you have to pay for anything in order to vote, that is just plain wrong.
Exactly! All this is is a way for the Democrats to continue getting the poor, young, very old, and minorities to vote for them multiple times across the country!! With the rampant voter fraud and thousands of convictions each year of people voting more than once, it’s a wonder that anyone would question this common sense law! AND, if you’re living here in this country without a valid ID, then you’re probably up to no good! So, these laws not only stop the out-of-control voter fraud, but it makes people check in with the government so that the government can find out what other criminal activity they’re doing! It’s win-win-WIN!!!
Voter Fraud is a crime, your misinformation should be one too. There are not thousands of cases of voter fraud across the country. It is not about getting the poor, young, and old to vote for anyone, it is about making sure they can vote.
Seeing as you based your rant on non-facts, made up stories, it shows the caliber of what you believe in.
Bunk. Total bunk. There have been 10 cases of proven (i.e. people convicted of) in-person voter fraud in the whole US in the past 12 years. 10 cases! Estimates for the State of Pennsylvania indicate that about 9% of eligible voters there do not have a photo ID. That equates to roughly 750,000 people potentially not being able to vote, for no other reason than they do not have a valid ID. The fact that there are that many people who do not have photo IDs says to me that maybe our way of life doesn’t apply to 100% of the US population. Shocking! See here for references:
http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/
This is, perhaps, one of the greatest examples of cognitive dissonance I have ever seen. We are willing to disenfranchise a large number of people just to stop a non-existent (or at best “barely-existent”) issue. A true conservative would not support additional government rules and regulations to address something that hadn’t been proven to be happening.
That said, your post has gotten me thinking about other things that I can’t believe people don’t have. There is no excuse for not having health insurance in this day and age. There is no intended “socialism” involved in the Obamacare issue; just a desire to improve the well-being of all Americans.
Without the individual mandate requirement, far too many people are left without coverage, going bankrupt or passing their medical costs onto the rest of us. And far too many people ended up dead, and not voting. Of course, since many people were too poor to do otherwise, it is hard to know how many people suffered in silence, even though most people know that they did.
http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/04/colorado-counties-have-more-voters-than-people/
You might be interested in this article on more voters than people living in Colorado’s counties.
http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/04/colorado-counties-have-more-voters-than-people/ Please see “more voters than people”.
It is indeed a nonexiting problem to everyone except the Republicans. It is not always as easy for the elderly or less saavy to obtain photo Identification.
From what I’ve read and heard, voter fraud in Maine isn’t a big problem. I also don’t believe that you can make a completely fool proof voting system. However, I think that we should do all that we can to try to make sure that every vote is a legitimate vote. I really don’t understand the opposition to some form of voter identification. There’s very little that you don’t need an i.d. for now. Heck, you even have to show one to buy Sudafed. It seems to me that if you’re capable of getting out to vote, you should be capable of getting some form of identification. Somebody who feels that this is somehow discriminatory, please explain to me why. I’m willing to listen to a valid argument.
Maine is being thown into the argument as an afterthought. We don’t have that many voters to matter nationaly. Big states like New York, California, Illisnois, Pennsylvania etc. have large urban populations where many residents don’t ever get a drivers license. They have no need and couldn’t afford a car due to the higher insurance and costs of parking. If the urban population were mostly registered Republicans you wouldn’t even be hearing of this so called ‘fraud’ problem. This is just a tactic to exclude as many voters who potentially will be voting for the opposition.
I would hope that the Democratic National Commitee and political leaders in all the major urban areas of the country will make a concerted effort to get everyone who needs one a photo ID that the Republicans can’t suppress. Let them go back to the drawing board or to the basement. Hopefully their tacticts will back fire on them.
These urban areas are also the areas where it is easier to commit fraud by going from precinct to precinct voting more than once. Even possible to bus people around having them vote multiple times. At the very least we should adopt the “finger in the purple ink” used by some foreign countries.
Voter lists are completely inaccurate and democrats fight any attempt to clean them up. In the small town i live in the voter lists still contain the names of 2 ex wives and a daughter that I know of that have not lived here in the last 6 to 10 years.
Have you reported that your ex’s and daughter are still registered in your town? Did you check to see if they voted in your town? Do you have evidence of people being bussed from precinct to precinct in the urban areas? Did you document this?
Or did you just take Rush Limbaughs truths as your own.
Of course I have “reported” it. Small town, I am well known by the clerks and they personally know the individuals have not lived in this town for years. However, as the law now exists, I am told that neither my word or their personal knowledge allows them to legally remove those names from the voter lists.
Or are you saying that just anyone should be able to go into the voter lists and have someones name removed on their word alone?
Which leads to the unanswered question. Did these individuals vote in your town since they moved elsewhere? If so then it is your and your voter clerks responsibility to call the authorities.
In the State of Maine, if a person has not voted in two consective major elections, the Registra of Voters will send out an AVN (Address Verification Notices) to the listed address. If the AVN comes back as undeliverable (they cannot not be forwarded) the voter is stricken from the voter rolls.
This is done before every major election by law.
Funny, but none of these notices have ever arrived here and it has been well beyond the “two consective major elections” for all three of the individuals I know of.
I think you just made that up.
Nope, I did not make it up.
I used to work for a Maine Based software company that wrote a popular Voter Registration application so I know what steps were necessary to be in compliance with Maine’s Voter Registration Laws. I not only trained town clerks on the use of the program, I also was in office answering procedural questions on how to send out AVNs.
But have they voted in those towns since they left? If not there is not vote fraud.
How would I know? I question if it would be legal for me to have access to that information.
The point is that there are huge numbers of people registered presently in different precincts and even different states who could if they wish just show up to vote and would not be questioned. As legally registered voters that is all they have to do. Also, anyone can get a copy of the voter lists and anyone who wants to commit fraud could simply go to multiple polls using the names of voters who have moved.
you can make it legitimate at the expense of legit voters. Simple put people are not going to be able to vote because they can not get an ID or do not want one. If its not a big deal in Maine then you are going to cause more people not to vote then save from preventing Fraudant votes.
Buying Sudafed is not a cherished right. Cashing a check is not a cherished right. Neither support a democratic society. The right to vote had to be won by various disenfranchised groups. And, now you want to disenfranchise the most vulnerable? Every citizen of voting age capable of understanding what it means to vote has the right to vote. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. Requiring a voter ID says you are guilty until proven innocent. I am who I say I am until someone proves me otherwise.
If liberals are willing to bus people to the polls, then why can’t they bus them to the BMV to register to vote or even their local town hall? Please answer the questions without changing the subject.
Both Parties provide “Get out the Vote” vehicles to allow people who may have a hard time getting to the polls access to vote.
because its not simple getting a DL. You have to have the supporting documentation, which can be hard to track down and which can be expense to get. Its not a matter just showing up, saying who you are and getting an ID. There is a lot more to it.
Since the government will of course offer to give you a ride to get the documents, pay for the documents and let you vote if they can’t find them, by making new documents, of course requiring an ID is OK.
What?????………….You mean they don’t do that?
Well there are evidently a lot of liberals who do not have jobs (I base this on the fact that they are on this site all day long), so why don’t they volunteer to do this.
Because it is a poll tax. Charging you money or costing you money to vote is illegal, should be illegal, and it is your job to prove that I am not eligible to vote. Charlie Summers couldn’t prove fraud but maybe you have secret sources that only speak with you in quiet rooms.
In my town we have lots of volunteers who will drive people to the polls and we do not ask them who they are voting for before they get a ride. Don’t conservatives do that too? I am not aware that liberals don’t help people who need a ride to the town office. Are you?Personally I would not want to wait at a BMV site, would you? Did I answer the question to your satisfaction?
Hey Kayak, jam it. I thoughtfully gave my view and said I would listen to a valid argument, and you accuse me of “wanting to disenfranchise the most vulnerable”. Don’t reply to my posts anymore please. Thank you. By the way, your argument sucks.
When a person replies to a post the way you did to KayakMomma, they know that they do not have a valid argument. Someone with a valid argument does not take offense so easily.
Some folks just don’t play your game and use your language. They might feel it is over the top insulting.
Again, insulting a person because you don’t agree with them lessens your argument. Someone with a valid argument does not have to resort to personal insults.
You’re as numb as she is. READ my post. I said I was stating what I thought and would listen to other arguments. DO YOU GET IT? I was looking for other people’s thoughts. What I said to her goes for you too.
Like I said, when a person resorts to insults they have lost any credibility.
Nice thoughtful response. jam it, sucks?…… you have a ways to go to convince anyone your argument is valid.
Really? No matter what your age you have to have a photo ID to pick up certain prescription drugs. And if you are younger you have to have a photo ID to buy cigarettes or alcohol.
And its not like its that difficult to get one. So I guess the liberals would lose an important part of their voting block would be the only result. And if they are so concerned about this, then why not give the poor a ride to closest BMV location? After all, they are willing to bus them to the polls on election day.
Hey, liberals!!! Why not help them to make sure they are eligible to vote? Or are eligible voters something you don’t really want.
I’m hoping that the Democrats bust their butt to insure that every eligable voter in the country has the right to vote.
Well, they should be free. But the problem is you have to have supporting documentation in order to get one. the documentation that takes time and money to get. I know someone that have not been able to renew there license because he can’t get a birth certificate without a valid ID, can’t get a valid ID without a birth certificate. Why support a law that will cause eligible voters not to vote?
Well, how did they ever drive in the first place?
How are they able to cash a check or open a bank account? Most work places do require direct deposit.
How do they get prescription drugs?
How do they purchase alcoholic beverages?
Why doesn’t this person contact their state rep for help?
If this person exists at all.
But the existence of this person doesn’t matter to liberals as long as he can vote.
Well, I actually called them to find out. He went 6 months, drove with invalid ID. Couldn’t buy alcoholic beverages, didn’t need the drugs, already had a back account with DD. Hey ended having to go to Indiana to his town in person with the invalid ID in order to get a birth certificate. There are problems with ID laws. I would be supportive if the republicans were also making is easier to get ID. Drop the birth certificate requirement, being able to show an invalid ID and a form of ID. Making them free and being able to churn them out in 5 mintues.
How do you think they could make it easier? With all the identity theft going on there have to be safeguards in place.
There are not If and or buts about what this law is for. It is trying to prevent people who normaly vote democratic from voting. Why do they lie? Will someone with a little gumption just come out and tell the truth? The reason is, you are going to have less people voting then actually protecting votes. The whole point of voting is to get as many people that are legally able to vote to vote. You do that by making it easier. Like, getting ride of election tuesday and making it election saturday. If the republicans or democrats cared about the American Voter they would change voting to Tuesday and get ride of the electoral collage.
So you are basically stating that democrats are too lazy to get a proper ID to vote?
Without a photo ID, how does one verify that the person voting is eligible?
No, What I am saying is that its just not that easy for some people. You don’t just go down to the DMV and say I want a photo ID. You need other documents. Documents that cost money to get. 20 bucks for a birth certificate is a lot of money for people. Unless the Republicans want to put money aside to pay for people getting those documents. Then call a spade a spade. This is a way to prevent people that normally vote for democrats from voting. I get it, Just don’t be so stupid to believe they actually care about the elections being fair.
Ok…what would you recommend for proof of eligibility to vote?
Prove my ineligibility first. I have a right to vote. Also did you know in some of these states you can use your NRA card as ID? Yes they really care about protecting voting.
The burden of proof is on you. My wife is not a citizen and all the town officials know her but they do not know her citizen status. So the voting officials would have to prove that she is ineligible? That does not even pass the laugh test. Do you read your posts before hitting the “Post” button.
Please give us the name of those states that accept an NRA membership card as an ID to vote?
No it is not, when You are convicted of a crime the burden of proof is on the accuser not the defendant. Prove the fraud. Saying there could be fraud is not good enough. Has she voted? No You just proved my point, people can commit fraud but they do not. Also, it was Texas that was going to allow NRA card, but the court blocked the law.
and for some people it is just not that easy to do all kinds of things. It is not always easy for those who work to make the polls. If it is important, you figure it out.
If you are assuming that the Republicans want this to keep Democratic voters out, then I will assume the dems don’t want it solely because they do not care about voter fraud so long as it benefits them.
Fraud is fraud, and there should be a system in place to minimize it as much as possible PERIOD, regardless of who votes for who.
Nope you minimize it until it cost more to prevent fraud then the fraud. This is simply going to make less people vote then prevent fraudulate votes.
Remember, the Dems don’t care if the person is eligible, so long as the person votes Democrat.
Neither prescription drugs or cigarettes or alcohol form the basis of a democratic society. Sorry that is not a valid argument for requiring voter ID. Massive fraud would be. It does not exist. But look at this….. A handful of convictions involved people who voted twice. More than 30 were linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support. 30 of the 86 tied to ‘justice’ candidates? Where is the corruption and fraud in this country?
The point is that people are have to obtain a photo ID for those purchases. So. you are stating that voting eligibility is not important enough?
No, that is not the point. The point is proving you can legally purchase anything is not the bedrock of a democratic society. The right to vote is what is important and there should be no restrictions imposed upon a citizen’s right to vote once they have registered to vote. If there are problems take them up with your town office or city hall. Challenge those listed on voter rolls. Not the legitimate citizens that show up at polling places.
Yes. But what part of “you need a photo ID” to purchase these items” do you not understand? If you are moving to a new town where no one knows you, how do you prove you are eligible?
In Maine you can use a unpaid utility bill with your name on it to prove you live in the district. An ID is not required to register to vote.
So I can show my utility bill to get prescription drugs, cigarettes and booze? What’s the name of that store?
Do you know your Constitution? The place were its your right to vote, those other things are not specific to the Constitution.
No, but you can register to vote in the district you live in.
its funny these republican guys what you to have ID to vote, so they allow to show an NRA card as proof of ID but not studend ID. Yes they really care about protecting voting.
lol, the gray hair on my head and the wrinkles on my face would be ID enough.
I don’t understand the paradox that is your argument.
Voting is incredibly important, but how dare you actually require to prove who you are before doing so???
Do you hear what you are saying? You should have to prove you are who you say you are? If there is just cause. If I am acting suspiciously. If someone knows I am not me. Maybe then. But never, ever challenge me without proof or evidence that I am engaged in wrongdoing. I am who I say I am until you can prove otherwise. And I have a right to vote in the community I have registered to vote in. It is that simple. You seem to want to complicate the process not protect it.
That would be D.C.
I have always stressed the importance of exercising the one strength everyone owns that is of equal value, regardless of wealth or status. I am truly grateful to the paranoia of the Republicans to have finally found a way to ensure voter turnout. Poetic justice.
Spot on article. The TeaPublicans, at the direction of ALEC, the Heritage Foundations, and other right wing outfits came up with these photo-ID schemes to suppress minority, poor, young, and elderly voters. Their delusional LIES about “voter fraud” are just exactly that. It is a non-existent problem. If anything, it is right wing dirty tricks artists who are the vote-frauders with their fake phone calls, blocking Democratic get-out-the-vote phone lines, fake flyers, and on and on. The rotten right wing LIARS are just that. LIARS. Disgusting!
Wow. Time to get the Prozac from the pharmacy. Don’t forget your photo ID.
After you.
Voting is both a privilege and a responsibility with tremendous consequences, which is why we should ensure that election results are in no way manipulated by fraud. Having voters show identification at the polls should be a minimum requirement for participating in this important process. Without this requirement, how do you prevent people from voting multiple times? I once heard a person claim to have viewed the obituaries in the days preceding an election, and who then voted more than once using the names of the recently deceased. Are the poll workers expected to know every person who appears before them? Having to show an id is a simple requirement that should not just be reserved for other basic duties, such as cashing a check. The real reason why the Left doesn’t support this basic requirement is because they know they will usually benefit from having loose voting requirements.
You probably heard all these fairy tales on the Rush Limbaugh propaganda hour.
Sorry, wrong again, as usual.
Rush is on for 3 hours. It’s only propaganda if it’s a lie. But, go ahead and list the lies that Rush has told as of late.
Voting is not a privilege. It is a right.
And with that right, just as with other rights, there is a level of responsibility that should be expected by those partaking of that right. That includes getting a photo ID.
How many instances of “impersonation” fraud have been proven or even charged in the last ten years? How many cases of voter fraud, period?
One problem that *does* exist is political workers bringing armloads of absentee ballots to the polls, a charge which has been leveled against Charlie Webster, or folks filling out absentee ballots for others and mailing them in. Where’s the photo ID on those?
This “photo ID” push is part and parcel of the National ID agenda, something which conservatives oppose in other contexts. That photo ID would have to conform to Federal “Real ID” standards, whether a driver’s license or simple ID card.
No. We on the right are opposed to any form of national ID, whether it be an ID card with a computer chip or an embedded computer chip. It’s the left that have been pushing for a national ID, national gun registrations, and a national healthcare database.
And yet these proposals would require a national-level ID for any citizen who wished to vote.
No. It requires a photo ID with the necessary information on it to properly identify the voter, the same criteria required for registering as a voter in Maine.
You know, that makes this issue even more confusing. If people have to have a picture ID to register to vote, then what’s the big deal about showing that ID when they go to vote?
A driver’s license used to be a driver’s license — proof of basic competency to drive. Now it is a national ID. I had to show my passport, the last time I renewed mine.
What’s even more weird is that you DON’T have to show ID to use a credit card. Simply swipe or tap and then dance your way out the store-no ID required at all. It must cost a small fortune for shops to accept credit cards these days-how much do Visa and Mastercharge charge merchants to cover the massive credit card fraud that their rules allow?
I think that BOTH sides, at a certain level, want such an ID. And it pains me to see Americans waving their chipped passports around in line at the airport for a domestic flight….
Have to do that when you register. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I am who I say I am until you can prove otherwise. Prove my vote to be fraudulent and then throw it out. Until then I get to vote as a REGISTERED voter in my home town.
So you won’t mind if I get to the polls before you and use your name to vote for Romney?
Silly man. No one would give you a ballot. You just proved my point.
First of all, how do you know I’m a man? Second, have you ever even voted? All you have to do is state your name and they give you a ballot. Lastly, how does stating an obvious truth prove your point? The only thing that is silly is the apparent lack of coherency in your logic.
True, that is why I added a second post. And, what is it you do not find coherent? I guess an obvious truth does not support a position in your system of logic. What am I missing? I am open to correction.
My point is this. I demonstrated from personal experience that our current system of voting offers little protection for the integrity of the election process, in that, anyone who knows the name of a registered person in a given voting district can step up to the polling officials, claim to be that person, and the odds are that they will be given a ballot and allowed to vote. And they could do this multiple times in several municipalities, as long as they own a phone book. Why is this possible? Because we don’t require election officials to validate that people are who they say they are by requesting an ID. Those who argue that requiring an ID is not a good idea cannot offer any rational response that counters the truth of this weakness in our process–it is what it is. You can suggest that it is wrong and illegal for a person to vote in the name of someone else, and I agree. But that doesn’t mean that people won’t do it. What is the best way to correct this obvious problem? By requiring election officials to validate each voter’s identity. I just don’t see any other way?
It is not an obvious problem. In fact it is no documented problem at all. It is so rare as to be statistically insignificant. Why force a solution on something that is not a problem? When it becomes one that wins elections we can talk again. Solutions are need for problems we have identified. No such problem has been identified. Don’t believe in cart before the horse methodology. But here is an interesting twist. Just read that the Justice Dept just approved a voter ID law passed in NH which says that if no voter ID is presented the voter will have to agree to sign an affidavit and have their picture taken. Not sure yet how I feel about that. But I sure would make the ugliest face I could for that picture. So I guess I do know how I feel about it. Not sure what I would do in that case.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one? I see no issue with verifying someone’s identity by asking that they show an id before they vote. Bank’s often require an id to cash a check. A company needs an id in order to hire someone. Why should the one act the serves as one of the foundations of our country not also have the same protection against potential fraud that these other things have?
If you can state my name and address and get past the election clerks and poll watchers and my challenge to have your vote thrown out sure, engage in criminal activity. Just what we need more of. Thank goodness there are few like you out there.
How would they be able to tell if it was you who voted?
I am who I say I am until someone can prove otherwise. It is not that difficult. Few people are even remotely interested in that kind of identity theft.
First of all, I’ve never been asked to state my address by an election clerk. I have had them ask me if I live at such and such a street, to which I’ve confirmed yes. But they in no way had any intention of questioning who I’ve said I was. Secondly, after I’ve voted under your name, how are you going to have it thrown out, because they don’t know which ballot was mine once I put it in the ballot box? And lastly, you should be thankful for people like me who want to bring integrity to the American voting process, because you’ve demonstrated such a naive and uninformed view of the actual workings of the voting process that it serves to undermine your own position that the election process is secure as it currently is.
WRONG! Voting is a right, not a privilege. No one has the right to infringe on it. If that’s the only Repubs can get elected, maybe they should reconsider their candidates and platform.
WRONG! A true U.S. citizen does have the right to ensure that only citizens participate in our election process. And we also have the right to ensure that people only vote once. In the world of the Democrats, election rules should be kept loose so that they can manipulate the results if they need to. Just ask any Republican in Chicago who should have won between Nixon & Kennedy in 1960 if that election were conducted fair and square.
“The Voting Rights Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C.A. § 1973 et seq.) prohibits the states and their political subdivisions from imposing voting qualifications or prerequisites to voting, or standards, practices, or procedures that deny or curtail the right of a U.S. citizen to vote because of race, color, or membership in a language minority group” Think again ! LePug wasn’t elected Dictator of Maine and if the TeaPotty wants to change the rules to win, they will have to change the law and the Constitution. Like I said, if they have to use those underhanded tactics to win, they should reconsider their platform. Fecism doesn’t work in this country.
I’m glad to hear that you agree with me! One vote per U.S. citizen equals a fair and honest election! See, we can achieve consensus during this election campaign!
Really?? You have the right to ensure that I’m an American citizen?
Of course, if you plan to vote in this country. Do you want Canadians or the French to choose your elected leaders?
Voter repression? BULL. Just another whine
by libbers. Ask them for ID to cash their welfare
checks and to buy booze and ciggies and they will
whip one out before you can blink.
On top of that, this article cites the Brennan Center for Justice, which claims to be non-partisan, but isn’t. Here’s the first paragraph of the article they linked:
“Every voter should demonstrate that they are who they say they are before voting. That form of proof should not include restrictive documentation requirements like overly burdensome photo ID or redundant proof of citizenship requirements that serve to block millions of eligible American citizens from voting.”
That’s about as partisan as they come.
So how would you prove you are eligible?
Buying booze and ciggies is not the foundation of a democratic society. Bad argument.
Perhaps. But that’s a voting block that democrats rely on.
Now that rebuttal just lost you your argument.
Who is arguing? Just spelling out an obvious truth.
The people spoke loud and clear last fall: “leave my right to vote alone.” Why is it such a big deal to one party as opposed to the other? Answer: one of the parties knows that it is becoming less and less in touch with reality and it needs to suppress the rights of dissenting opinions to vote in order to achieve its goals.
The problem does exist here, as it exists elsewhere. It is not a problem of race, political expediency, or
convenience. Demonstrating that the vote being cast does in fact belong to who is claiming the privilege is nothing more than a common sense policy to help safeguard the democratic process. Ken
Do that when I register. Once registered I have the right to vote in my community.
They already do, which is the funny part, which is where their argument falls apart.
Dear KayakMomma,
Thanks for your reply. Your point presumes that you are personally recognized when actually voting. In many larger communities this would not be the case and without valid I.D. the vote monitor would have no way of verifying that the person standing in front of him/her is actually the person who registered on a previous date. Give it some thought. Ken
True Ken. That would be true in a small town also. No one knows everyone. New people in town showing up to vote for the first time will be known by few. My whole point is that the election clerks have no need to know. Town clerks who register residents need to know. You seem to be suggesting that everyone that comes to vote intends to commit a crime. They are guilty until they can prove themselves innocent. That is what I object to. I am who I say I am until you can prove otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty. And no one has ever voted in my place in the 28 years I have been voting in Maine. Or, in any other state for that matter. There is no problem that a voter ID will resolve. But would instead create all kinds of other problems and expense. Which have been enumerated many times by those well versed in the area of election protocols. I think in November I will go and state my name as a person who died last year in our town. Think I will get a ballot?
but how would people at the polls know it is YOU who is actually voting? Simply proving who you are when you register just means that you are legally on the rolls for that town/city. It provides zero protection for you if somebody votes in your place. Do you really not see the difference?
And in the 28 years I have been voting in my town no one has voted in my place. Case closed.
Charlie Webster LIVES!!! You all remember how right Charlie was about voter fraud, right?
Fraud to the right of me, fraud to the left of me (especially there!!). Why is it the wing nuts seem to think that illegal voters are Democrat? Surely there has got to be one or two Republicans out there that vote “early and often”.
Romney was elected Governor of Massachusetts when he may not have been a legal resident there. He used his son’s basement apartment as his home address.
Sort of like Chaney with his “convenient” Wyoming residence.
Yes, just read where there was a handful of convictions that involved people who voted twice. More than 30 were linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support. Interesting. Wonder what party they were registered with?
All these arguments against voter ID will ‘work’ until someone goes to court charging that they also apply to, say, buying cigarettes or flying commercially. Then the government – especially the Democrats – will argue that they’re silly.
Of course they are silly, and irrelevant. Buying cigarettes and flying commercially do not form the bedrock of a democratic society. Sorry but apple and orange arguments do not hold up to scrutiny.
But equal protection of the laws is also bedrock, and the complaint would be that requiring an ID denies certain groups that have trouble acquiring IDs the full exercise of their rights, which includes the right to buy and fly just like everybody else. So, not apples and oranges after all.
I respectfully disagree. But I am not well versed in the law around buy and fly. This seems to sum it up: We understand passengers occasionally arrive at the airport without an ID, due to lost items or inadvertently leaving them at home. Not having an ID, does not necessarily mean a passenger won’t be allowed to fly. If passengers are willing to provide additional information, we have other means of substantiating someone’s identity, like using publicly available databases. (TSA website) So you are saying showing up at the airport is the same as showing up at the election booth. But it is not the same. Because I have already registered at my town office where I provided proof of residency for an opportunity to vote in an upcoming election. They already have me in their database. I can buy a ticket without showing proof that I am the one that is buying the ticket. I do it online all the time. If I register to vote on the day of the election (voters in Maine soundly repealed the elimination of same day registration) then, yes I have to have some form of proof that I live in that town. So in that way and that way only is the comparison a valid one in my mind. And I never have to show an ID to purchase alcohol or tobacco. The gray hair on my head and wrinkles on my face are the only ID I need.
That’s fine in a small town: but what about in places like Milwaukee, where a recent get-out-the-vote effort couldn’t find 160,000 registered voters (40% of the total looked for!) at their as-registered addresses?
A paper-shuffling problem? A pool of registered, non-existant voters whose ballots will be cast by, say, Tea Party activists bused in from Chicago? Who knows? And without voter ID at the polls, who can know?
So you are saying there is a conspiracy to take the voter rolls, find non-existent people and then send substitutes in to vote in their place? Seems like Milwaukee needs to do a better job of purging their voter rolls. That is the solution. Not imposing more restrictions on those legitimate voters who show up at a voting center. Hopefully those get-out-the-voter workers turned their information into city hall and it was double-checked to insure that another conspiracy at work was not in effect. What a great citizen service that would be. And, what election has been won by these conspiracy theories?
Exegesis, not eisegesis, please.
And how do you know that when ‘Joe Smith’ shows up at that center claiming he resides at 1 Pleasant Street, and there’s a ‘Joe Smith’ registered living at 1 Pleasant Street, that he is Joe Smith?
…and since voting forms the bedrock of a democratic society (so, um, it is important), then why not require for one to show who they really are before letting them help “form the bedrock of society?”
Every citizen who is capable is entitled to vote. We register so rolls can be checked for duplication, errors, etc by those who monitors elections, correct? All citizens of voting age form the bedrock of society not all citizens who vote. Those who choose to go to the polls to vote should have no artificial barriers erected to prevent them from exercising their right to vote. How many times do we hear folks bemoaning the fact that turn out is low. And, you want to create more barriers? Why? There is only one reason why. And, it is not fraud. That is not what it is about. It is a control issue. Do you have one?
Personally, I have no problem turning away people from the polls too stupid or lazy to acquire legitimate identification.
Then you do not support the right to vote or a democratic society. Plain and simple. You wish to manipulate basic rights afforded every citizen of voting age.
I guess you have a problem with Democracy then. A lot of people have died preserving the right to vote for everyone.
New Myths on Voter ID
“All claims about vote suppression and supposedly huge numbers of voters who don’t have ID are based on a dubious study released a week ago by the Brennan Center, a partisan and unobjective advocacy organization.…
An analytic reader of the Brennan Center report can’t help but wonder ‘Where’s the beef?’ Most of the 2011 report is based on an extrapolation of an earlier, even more questionable report released in 2006…
The study is dubious in its methodology and especially suspect in its sweeping conclusions…
So there really is nothing behind the claim that 3.2 million voters will supposedly be unable to vote because of new voter-ID laws. This is especially true because these same types of claims were made in the federal lawsuits filed against voter-ID laws in Indiana and Georgia. Those lawsuits were dismissed because the plaintiffs were unable to produce a single individual, much less ‘millions’ of voters who would be unable to vote because of the requirement to show a photo ID. …
To judge from the number of reports citing its conlusions, the Brennan Center report is certainly a successful propaganda effort. However, neither the editorials of the Washington Post and the New York Times nor the Brennan Center report are empirically driven….”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279991/new-myths-voter-id-hans-von-spakovsky#
“Dubious, partisan, unobjective…” are hardly words that indicate the report you cited is unobjective. In fact, when I googled it the National Review’s own website brief started with the following: “Conservative commentary on American politics, news and culture.” Try finding a less partisan source, one not so unabashedly conservative.
Unabashedly, screamingly liberal sources are A-OK, though, right?
The national review is obviously objectionable, right? Otherwise you wouldn’t have sourced it, right?
Right…
The Republicans support voter fraud.
They stole the Ron Paul delegates after refusing to even count the votes for Paul in the county.
Here is proven voter fraud no ID would have stopped. So if these vote stealing fraudsters want to take the vote from someone else you know it has to be more of the same.
my 88 year old mother-in-law is neither stupid nor lazy. She has no license; she doesn’t need to be on the road. She is also on a fixed income and lives 40 miles from the nearest DMV.
Then all you have to do is put her in your car and drive her to wherever she needs to go to get a photo ID. And buy her lunch while your out. That’s what families do.
By the way, there’s a good possibility that she has a photo ID somewhere in her purse. If she does, make sure it’s current. If she doesn’t, then help her get one.
Ok, so how would an elderly person do this if they currently do not have an id and they live with their children. They would have no bill, mortgage, no tax bill, no tax return if they are exempt (income too low)….or even better if they recently moved none of them would have a current address showing they now live there and they wouldn’t qualify for any exemption.
Then proving you are legally here, many of those documents cost money to obtain if you do not already have them.
Thus you are charging just to get the ID, which means you are charging to vote.
Your argument is empty. It can’t possibly be that difficult to get an ID. And if it is, and the person is so far behind the times, then he or she most likely isn’t going to vote in the first place.
If everyone that expresses their compassion for this situation helped just one person obtain an ID, the problem would be solved. But there are too many on the left that would rather make this a racist or disenfranchisement issue when, in fact, it’s a political struggle. As long as there is wiggle room for fraud, the left will fight to keep the possibility of fraud alive while screaming racism or disenfranchisement.
Your argument is empty. It can’t possibly be that difficult to get an ID. And if it is, and the person is so far behind the times, then he or she most likely isn’t going to vote in the first place.
Go to the Maine BMW site and see the requirements, then go to the other agency websites to see how to obtain the documents. My wife and I once couldn’t vote because we moved a week before an election and we were renting month to month with no signed lease agreement. We were poor and took what we could get, we both worked multiple jobs.
The people at the polls were actually very nice, were going to call a longtime resident that I knew to confirm we then lived in town, but he wasn’t home so we couldn’t vote.
We didn’t have a single document in our name for that residence and technically it takes two written statements that you live in the town, on an official BMW form to meet the residence standard, so technically they were bending the law trying to make it so we could vote.
You can call it empty all you want, but you are just putting your blinders on, eating up everything they tell you.
If everyone that expresses their compassion for this situation helped just one person obtain an ID, the problem would be solved.
False, because the people this affects the most move a lot! I was amazed at how many times I had moved when I had to fill out paperwork for my TS/SCI clearance, 24 times in 10 years. Many of the families that get affected most by this move even more than that and every time you move you have to get a new ID, so every time they move somebody has to help them out.
I am sorry not everybody got to grow up in your rosy situation, living in a Leave it to Beaver type family. Sorry we couldn’t all be so perfect like you.
Poll tax.
Of which there has never been any of in Maine.
Dumb.
That’s your counter-argument? Dumb.
LOL, what a stupid and lazy analysis. There is a good chance she has an ID in her purse? Get real. Read the article, 1 in 10 don’t have an ID.
You can’t cite a REAL problem and yet you want to burden 1 in 10 voters? Even if you find some isolated incidences of fraud, it is no where near proportional to 1 in 10. What you’re trying to do is build an entirely new house simply because there is a drip coming from the kitchen faucet.
“Studies by the Brennan Center for Justice show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters don’t possess government-issued photo ID cards”
From what I’ve read, there are other-than-government-issued IDs that will be accepted. Also, when “as many as” is in a study, it means they don’t really know.
What’s the point then? Why make it a law if you’ll accept something that isn’t government issued? That doesn’t even make sense, there would be no security. Seems like you’re just saying random garbage in order to get that 11% number down.
Then how do people register in the first place? I recently registered to vote, and I had to show ID to show I was eligible.
He’s just upset because their nominee was upstaged by a chair.
The Republicans do not want to hear dissenting opinions even within their own party – witness the debacle that was the RNC and their unwillingness to seat the Paul supporters. It is horrific enough that the voter suppression exists within their party, but to extend their efforts to the populace as a whole is a true travesty. This is supposed to be a country where everyone has the right to express his opinion by way of the voting. The Republican blitzkrieg on the voting booth is reprehensible. The only way for them to accomplish their anti-people agenda is to keep as many people away from the polls as they can. First, they need to show that they can clean their own backsides before they can be trusted to clean the country’s. Let the people speak.
The most disturbing example of voter suppression occured in Florida a dozen years ago with the dangling chads that stuck us with GW Bush for 8 years.
Voter fraud is the same kind of imaginary enemy that weapons of mass destruction were that got us into the Iraq war.
Despite all the over-heated rhetoric from both sides, does anyone really believe that conservatives would be pursuing this issue so vigorously if they believed it was going to disenfranchize more Republican voters than Democrat voters?
And I thought conservatives believed in less government intrusion into our lives; now they want the government to require anyone who wants to vote to get a photo ID.
Personally, I wouldn’t have any problem with being required to present a photo ID at the polls. I do believe, though, that if such laws are passed, every reasonable effort should be made to help people acquire the ID’s.
I am a Republican, but honestly, I believe you should have to show ID to vote, regardless of who you may vote for in an election. I do not want voter ID because I view it as beneficial to Republicans. I want voter ID because to me, not to have it, is complete insanity. Somebody could walk in, simply know my last name and my address and vote in my place. I need an ID to get certain OTC drugs, but no ID is required to vote? That makes no sense to me at all. If a photo ID is required to take the SAT, why is it NOT required to vote?
I don’t buy into the rationale that “oh, it is not a problem so why bother.” That is very easy for the dems to say (as they seem to think not having to show who you are when you vote disenfranchises people). I say if an ID is not required to vote, VOTING itself is marginalized in our society.
Since leaving Maine for the military many years ago, I’ve lived at over 20 different addresses. I’ve always managed to keep up with the correct IDs, licenses, and addresses with little or no problems. And I also have a file with copies of all of my important papers. It’s all a matter of responsibility. I learned it from my grandparents.
Did you vote in those other states? I was in the military as well but WAS NOT eligible to vote in local elections in the area because my home of record was (and still is) in Maine.
Yet, most if not all the liberals, that frequent this site state that it is OK for students to vote here even though their home of record IS NOT Maine.
As long as Maine was listed as my home of record, I voted by absentee ballot in Maine. When I changed residencies, I voted where I lived.
The student issue is just a ploy to get additional votes from non-residents (which, by the way, should be illegal), since most college students are liberal.
Crock a BS .You cant even buy a pack a smokes, Open a bank account. cash a check, without a picture ID
Did Chellie husband by the BDN also.
I think people that have NO FORM of ID have other problems then whether they can vote and don’t think a lot of them would vote anyway.
How does one cash a check? How does one do ANYTHING without ID?
Just sitting here thinking.
We have the most revered voting process in the world and yet we have the least informed, dumbest electorate in the world. Let em all vote. Just more perpetuation of our stupidly What’s the difference.?
It is very interesting that the DNC convention requires a photo ID. They must be from the upper 1% of the population. Isn’t it interesting that North Carolina found 30,000 dead voters on their rolls. No cheating there!
Excellent editorial.
why do you have to show an ID to get in the democrats convention?A convention must be more important than voting. Are the dems disenfranchising their own voters?
It’s not hard to obtain an ID. Majority of poor people and minorities already have ID’s.
I’m amazed at how the libs are becoming unglued at the thought of losing power this year! Not only are they becoming increasingly violent in their rhetoric, but they are also becoming completely incoherent in these public forums! I can only wait to see how much worse they get as this Democratic convention goes forward?
If one needs to show an I.D. to get into the Democratic National Convention, why wouldn’t they need an I.D. to vote? Just sayin.
I’d be interested to see the percentages of those actually experiencing “obstacles” to obtaining an ID and those involved in voter fraud. I guessing both numbers would be quite low.
I also find it very interesting that the Left is so against proving who you are before voting. Let the “you’re a hater” hoopla begin.
In reference to a reply to my post yesterday, I’m still trying to figure out how requiring ID makes me anti-gay.
Of course all this is totally over shadowed by the fact that we only get to vote for those who someone else has put forward.
We should require an IQ test with results required and printed on the voter ID cards. That would disenfranchise the GOP for sure!
This 93 year old woman had no problem preparing to vote, but the average Dim voter can’t be bothered to take 30 minutes out of their lives to ensure that they can vote? Doth protests too much, methinks.
It’s unfortunate that, at your age, you can’t put yourself in the shoes of others who aren’t like you to realize that the way it is for you is not the same as for everyone else.
I hope that when I’m 93 I don’t use such immature terms as “Dim.”
READ PLEASE:http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/04/democrats-proudly-declare-we-all-belong-to-the-government/
Don’t need no stinkin IDs
Racist rant. YEAH