PORTLAND, Maine — The J.J. Nissen brand survived the Great Depression, two world wars and two changes in ownership. Now bakery workers hope one of Maine history’s best-known brands, among other subsidiaries, will survive the downfall of its current parent company.
Striking workers outside of the closing Biddeford manufacturing facility late last week lamented what they described as a disintegration of a familial work atmosphere in the 14 years since Interstate Bakeries Corp. acquired J.J. Nissen — and held out hope that a new owner would emerge to restart the plant and revive the iconic Maine bread maker.
Among the potential saviors reported are the companies that own Pabst Blue Ribbon beer, Little Debbie snacks and Nature’s Own bread.
Interstate Bakeries Corp. was the official title for what now is known as Hostess Brands Inc., producer of the world famous Wonder Bread and the confectionary snacks Twinkies.
The local members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union — whose nationwide strike the parent company said forced its hand in accelerating plans to close down factories, liquidate assets and lay off more than 18,000 employees — fumed about pay and pension givebacks Hostess called for in the weeks leading into the strike. But many also said their refusal to work was rooted in what they felt was a lack of respect from their employers.
That wasn’t how they felt working for J.J. Nissen, said Lindsey Barnes, a striking bakery worker from Buxton who joined the company 19 years ago. According to the Maine Historical Society, the company was started in the early 1900s by a Danish immigrant named Jurgen Jepsen Nissen, who Americanized his name to “John.”
In the late 1980s, J.J. Nissen breads were given a boost in star power in a slate of television and print advertisements featuring Boston Red Sox great Ted Williams and Bangor Daily News sports writer Bud Leavitt.
The company stayed in family hands until the early 1990s, when The Libra Foundation, established by wealthy philanthropist Elizabeth Noyce, is credited with saving the aging company from financial collapse by buying it for $15 million and addressing deferred facility maintenance needs.
“We got a lot of respect back then,” Barnes recalled. “The owner would come out and shake our hands and say, ‘Thank you for putting in all this work.’ They respected what we did. It was about baking bread there. Here, it’s not about baking bread. It’s about paperwork and numbers.”
What Barnes referred to as “there” was the J.J. Nissen bakery on Munjoy Hill in Portland, a less-than-state-of-the-art facility left behind about 14 years ago for “here.”
“Here” is the 280,000-square-foot factory that the International Directory of Company Histories reported was part of a $100 million nationwide investment by Interstate Bakeries Corp. in its newly acquired subsidiaries. The Hostess predecessor reportedly acquired Nissen in 1998, two years after Noyce’s death, for about $22 million.
“We’re all automated,” said Sue Tapley, another striking worker and 13-year veteran of the operation. But the 21st century production lines — which in recent years were downsized from six or more lines to just two bread lines, a hamburger and hot dog roll line, and a cake shop that produced sweet snacks such as Suzy Q’s and Sno Balls — came with new managers who knew little about bakery work.
Ken Rumney of Standish, another of the striking workers, was hired by J.J. Nissen in 1969.
“That was a family bakery,” he said. “Mr. Nissen went through the bakery and talked to us. Most of the supervisors we had in Portland worked their way up the ladder. They were group leaders, then supervisors, and they knew how the bakery worked. Down here, they just hire people off the streets. Most of them have never set foot in a bakery before.”
Said Barnes, “All the guys who had come up through the ranks were fired because they would stand up to their bosses for us; they’d had our jobs before and they understood what it was like. Instead, [Hostess] brought in people from right out of college who looked good [as administrators] on paper, but had never worked a day of their lives in a bakery.”
But while local union members braced against the 8 percent pay cut, as well as significant pension and health insurance changes, that Hostess said it needed in order to stay viable, many on hand at the Biddeford plant said they remain optimistic they’ll be able to return to work baking bread and rolls again in the near future.
Barnes noted that the Biddeford facility is among the most advanced in the Hostess portfolio, and that while some of the 33 plants the company is closing nationwide are old and may never reopen, the Maine bakery is modern and well-positioned for a buyer.
Bloomberg News reported Friday that C. Dean Metropoulos & Co., the private equity firm that owns Pabst Brewing Co., is contemplating a bid for the Hostess brands. Metropoulos has a track record of rehabilitating struggling brands, Bloomberg reported, having turned around Chef Boyardee and Bumble Bee Tuna in addition to the rejuvenated Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.
ABC News reported Monday that Nebraska-based ConAgra Foods Inc. and Georgia-based Flowers Foods Inc. have expressed interest in bidding for the Hostess stable of brands. Meanwhile, the Christian Science Monitor named the Little Debbie Snacks maker McKee Foods and Mexican firm El Grupo Bimbo, the world’s largest bread baking company, as other potential suitors.
Flowers Foods owns, among other brands, Nature’s Own breads, while Grupo Bimbo already holds shares of such American mainstays as Sara Lee, Entenmann’s and Thomas English Muffins.
“[The closure of the bakery] is sad for me,” Tapley said. “I loved my job. I’d gladly keep working here — for a company that treats its workers right.”
Nissen bread, hot dog buns, and hamburger rolls were always a mainstay in my family. I hope this wonderful old Maine brand can survive and thrive under new ownership. I don’t give a damn about Twinkies (and I am sick of reading article after article about them!)… but my summers just won’t be the same without Nissen hot dog buns.
GOOD point. Nissen ‘s is the only bread I use .
J.J. Nissan was a great Maine company that Wall Street destroyed for fun and profit. The same thing happened to Dexter Shoe. We probably could have saved a lot of jobs if we had put Romney in the White House. He is going to go back to what he does best now. Screwing American workers out of their jobs.
Of course you have no links or anything to support your statement. Why are you bringing up Romney in a thread about union ignorance?
If you look at the debt, the actual money owed is to the vulture capitalists (that is of course the debt that they didn’t force the union to take on in their pension fund during the last ‘shared sacrifice’ where the Unions agreed to wage cuts, pension underfunding, taking over the companies debt while the vulture capitalists pilfered the coffers and gave the management 80% raises while shutting down factories) you will see that this is the exact method of doing business that Bain Capital has used time and time again. Now I don’t think this should devolve into a thread about Romney because although he uses the same scummy tactics to make his millions he has nothing personally to do with this, however if you think that people making $15 an hour are to blame for this you are much more delusional than anyone who would equate this with Romney.
well said sir!!
Easy. Mitt Romney is a classic example why we need more unions, not less. Romney would like to go back to the days when Rockefeller threw dimes out the window of his limo to workers on their way to the sweat shops. Private union membership is down to 7% in America. Do you suppose it is any coincidence that the rapid decline in union membership and the wages being in the toilet for the last 20 years happened at the same time? I don’t.
Unions represent legalized extortion and nothing less.
Most of our founding fathers were members of the world’s oldest union, the brotherhood of free Masons. So, in you opinion, they were extortionists? lol.
So what do you call corporate extortion? Did the unions approve taking on $860 million in debt?
The question should be how bad does management have to treat people and for how long before they say enough is enough.
Nonsense.
Union membership and wages are declining because we cannot compete with low wages in places like China. We need to take a page out of the German playbook and support our companies with our business. Everyone can run about blaming Romney or unions, but the leading driver of our companies heading overseas are the consumers that line up to buy cheap Chinese crap. Support Made in the USA brands with your dollars and those folks will keep working.
Give that man a cigar!!!!! I buy American. My girlfriend and I have decided that we are going to buy everything made in America this Christmas, everything. We have had to do a lot of it through the internet. All the stores are stuffed to the roof with cheap Chinese crap. Another bonus? I don’t have to worry about being trampled by the sheeple on “black” Friday. allusaclothing.com. Their prices are competitive with the Chinese crap L.L. Bean is pushing and it is all certified union made right here in America.
Check out Lisas Made in Maine shop in the Old Port. Not only can you buy American, you can support local Mainers. It’s what I did last year. :-)
I will check it out, thanks.
That is total BS. The only thing we lose to China is labor intensive jobs like textiles. China assembles the iphone, for now, but who is going to be the first to invent an automated assembly process? That’s where the money is and our greed driven corporate system is not playing for the long haul.
Maine’s paper industry was lost to union mills in Europe because after the strikes they made crap paper with replacements.
The Maine mills who kept up with investment and cultivated the relationship with their employees are still running..
So you think it’s wise to give away our “labor intensive” industries? The very nature of manufacturing is labor intensive. I’d rather see people in one of those jobs making a reasonable wage as opposed to being a retail employee hawking cheaply made Chinese junk but our union shops cannot compete with the cheap overseas labor.
As far as Maine’s paper industry, I only remember the IP strike in the late 1980’s. That mill is still running as Verso Paper. Which ones exactly left Maine for Europe?
We don’t “give away” labor intensive industries we lose them to competition. Many times it’s American companies setting up offshore companies with incentives from those countries.and as long as the money is kept off shore no taxes are paid. It is a double incentive to move production overseas.
One of the problems for us is that the technology goes with this production. China has become so good at assembling cell phones that unless we automate it we can never catch up.
The best hedge against losing these jobs is technology and technology comes from R&D and investment. American companies are driven to short term profits vs the long view. The thing that the US is/was best at is developing new products, but we have fallen behind in investment to sustain those products. Look how long it took the auto industry to catch up with the quality of Japan. Japan’s auto industry is all union. They worked WITH the union to accomplish quality same as BMW in Germany.
Once we fall behind in heavy industry like Steel and paper it is nearly impossible to catch up because it requires huge capital outlays
Labor cost is not the whole story. The value of that labor is what’s important. Good managers can bring out the best in people, bad managers bring out the worst. When a company lays off thousands it is a huge brain drain. In the case of IP it had a adversarial relationship with it’s employees for decades that was facilitated by poor managers. When it replaced all of them it lost a huge depth of knowledge and experience. The bean counters who made the decision to replace them didn’t replace the managers and so it was not long before the replacements developed a bad attitude. This is all management stuff.
What I should have said was the Maine paper industry depends on customers…market share. The lightweight coated grades are very competitive with narrow profit margins. This grade depends on quality and the best quality comes from Europe. The market share is what is lost to Maine. Verso is just hanging on with commodity grade which is the low end of the market and has low profit margins.
All of this loss in paper business is the result of the failure of mills to get on board with statistical process control which would have kept the Maine mills in the game. Add that to their failure to address energy use; they pump 3 million gallons per day of river water, heat it to 115 degrees and then dump it back into the river with tons of expensive pulp. These are the issues that management failed to address. If you evaluate the sustainability of the Maine mills the ones who are doing ok are the ones that make the bast management decisions and that includes negotiating contracts with unions.
I just read on national news that Hostess & Bakers Union agree to mediation.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324307204578129282170898870.html
When a breadman can make 80K or more in one year, the teamsters union has done its job for financial ruin for any company!
How much is the CEO making an what did he do for the company > How many ceo’s have they gone thru so far ?
No don’t you understand, anyone can drive a truck and successfully make deliveries, they don’t deserve to make a middle class income, but CEOS who bankrupt companies are true job creators and are worth every penny they get for their incompetence.
Not every one can drive a truck . You are funny on the ceo’s
Pay people according to their skills or their needs?
WOW I sure hope you are being sarcastic. These days, with the extreme rhetoric , it’s hard to tell.
What the CEO made vs. the union worker made is all moot in point. The workers are now out of a job. Comparing a CEO’s salary to a workers is an invalid comparison. One is management, one is not. A union can strike all it wants, but when there is no jobs to go back to, what did the strike accomplish? Nothing. If a CEO makes a lot of money, that is not a crime. Nothing is fair in life. There are winners and losers. It’s up to you as to which one you want to be in life.
— 725%: That’s how much average CEO compensation increased between 1978 and 2011, according to EPI.
— 5.7%: That’s how much the average worker’s compensation increased over the same period.
Irrelevant ?? You have to kidding. That is obscene and immoral and why that fat head Romney didn’t get elected.
no it is not irrelevant . It was the heart of the strike. They wanted to give the workers a 8% pay cut while giving the CEO’s a raise. That suggests the company wasn’t in THAT much “trouble”. And this is just another Mitt ROMNEY “job”. Gee i wonder how many voted for Romney .
You aren’t sounding like a winner there. A truck driver is no less of a human being than that CEO.
This is a problem for the GOP they sort people by how much they make and decide if they are winners or losers based on how much money they make.
And you can’t figure out why you lost the election!
How can they justify a big raise when they know the company is in deep trouble ?
how can the CEO’s?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp
How many hundreds of hours of overtime did they have to work to make 80K? Where did you get that number from? Is it a company wide average?
I was a welder at BIW an made very good money an if i worked all the over time that was oford to me i could not make 80k a year
I think he was playing a little fast and loose with the facts to slip a dig in against unions.
I know for a fact that an employee was making this amount per year, but the only way he made this amount was because he was a member of the teamsters….Way too much for a breadman!
Yes, all jobs pay too much these days. I hear people complain about it all the time. Again, how many hours of overtime did he work to get up to that level of pay? Or would that make any difference to you? How much should driving a bread truck pay, in your opinion? $7 an hour too much still?
read sassfaras LINK below . YOUR facts are full of holes. Was that employee the CEO??
hit and run posting with no proof or facts …. Notice he has left never to return…
he pulled the number out of you know where just to inflame..No”facts’ needed with this gang. .
Daddy left him the business and a hatred for employees in general.
How about the Executives?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp
proof?? You are pulling numbers out of you know where to inflame .The company wanted an 8% pay CUT!!! Would you take an 8% pay cut (while the CEO gets a raise) ??
What a shame!
“The J.J. Nissen brand survived the Great Depression, two world wars and two changes in ownership.”
But against greedy employees, J.J. Nissen could not stand.
I go to work every day for my employer. I go home at night to my family.
I think you’ll find that unemployment is disintegration of a familial work atmosphere.
The employees were making 30-34 k a year. The company wanted them to make $24k a year. I don’t think the employees are the ones being greedy here.
What to you suppose they’ll make now?
$7 an hour, part time, of course. The good news is that their new job will come with food stamps, heat assistance, and “free” medical care down at the emergency room. Things that they used to make enough to pay for on their own. Maybe pride drove them to pick up a sign and strike.
Exactly what the Democrat party wants, voters on the public teat dependent on the largess of others. Pride goeth before the fall
It is what the Republicans want too. They are both guilty of selling this country out to the highest bidder. Stop kidding yourself that it is a Democrat or a Republican problem. Both major parties are bought and paid for and will dance to whatever tune big money decides to play.
it’s not what they want, it’s what they got and will get more of
that is, until they run out of everyone else’s money
Margaret Thatcher you ain’t!
That is total nonsense. People want jobs that can sustain a family and a life. Check it for yourself, place an ad for a decent paying job and you will get hundreds, maybe thousands of people applying.
If the job creators did their jobs, if they invested even a little of the trillion dollar tax cut there would be jobs.
Entrepreneurs owe us nothing, I mean nothing. Get a job and stop your whining. Start by being a giver and not a taker. Believe me you’ll be happier.
What’s with the unfounded accusation of being a taker?
Again you folks need a new catch word …. again. It’s one reason why the GOP lost, accusing so many of being takers.
Unfounded? Is striking and bringing a company down on its knees when it is struggling to stay alive the answer? The workers just picked on the wrong company at the wrong time to threaten a strike. I doubt this for-profit company (Hostess) decided to take a disastrous course just so it could bleed their workers later on down the road. That would be absolutely ludicrous, but that in effect is what it is being accused of doing here in this venue.
Pfffttt….
The GOP lost not because they “called” so many people takers. They lost because there “are” so many takers
You keep believing that spiel. Someday you’ll get it.
Entrepeneurs? These guys are just waiting to sell the company to the highest bidder, so they can close and take their money and run.
You can be sure the business will sell for peanuts after it was forced by the union to close its doors. Yes, I’m sure the owners will try to salvage their losses as much as possible. I’d do the same thing rather then end up with zero assets and debt to boot.
How many children of the super wealthy Entrepreneurs send their kids off to war these days? It’s the kids of the lower and working class that do all of the dirty work while the rich kids are cooling their heels at Harvard and Yale.
You might have a point. But what does this have to do with the workers and their union bosses forcing the company to shut its doors to avoid further financial collapse?
My dad retired from Nissens in1983 after 33 years on the job, so I’m a little biased. The workers loved John Nissen. They were paid fairly and took pride in their work and products.The people running the company today have led it to ruin, not the dedicated workers.The reason that I mention the sacrifice of the lower and working class as it pertains to military service is this: Many business owners think that they owe workers and their families nothing. Their kids are not protecting the United States on average, it’s the workers children that are making that sacrifice. How would they do business in an unsafe world. I’m not a super pro union guy, I just think these people are not asking for that much. My Dad used to go in at 2 in the morning, work in unbelievably hot conditions and worked tons of hours around holidays at the Brewer Bakery. He never complained and appreciated the job he had until they day he died.
I’m not against laws to protect workers against unsafe and unhealthy working conditions as long as every employer is made to abide by the same rules. In fact that’s an area where a union can be effective. But shutting down a plant or a number of plants that are struggling financially is another matter. This is what in essence the bakers’ union did.
You ahven’t been paying attention! Stay away from Fox news and read about it from a real news source!
The issue was that the union did agree to cuts… and then to have Management ask for huge raises while they were laying off the very guys who were keeping the business afloat! THE WORKERS!
The CEO was making 1.7 million a year, and wanted 2.2 million !
The line worker would have to make over 10million twinkies in a year just to pay his salary!
I did not obtain any of my information from Fox News for this story. So I don’t understand where you are coming from. Also, I do know Hostess has been struggling to eke out a profit for many years, and has been in bankruptcy proceedings before. The workers unions and the company did in fact come to an agreement months ago, but according to the company it realized the terms of that agreement did not allow sufficient concessions for it to continue to do business. In case you aren’t aware, there were two unions representing the workers at Hostess. One of these accepted the company’s latest proposal. But the baker’s union balked and left the company no choice but to fold.
why in your mind is it only the workers that are to blame , what about the greed of management, the incompetence of management!! This company could run itself! Their products had a firm market, not growing but stable, they weren’t developing new products it was just coasting along unitil management screwed it up badly! Yet you insist that the workers are to blame. Why?
I don’t know where you got your information from since you did not offer your source. Here’s more information I just obtained on what transpired between Hostess and the baker’s union. As you will see there’s more to the story than you related and it’s not good news for the baker’s union that did in the company.
http://www.themainewire.com/2012/11/hostess-save-twinkies-union/
ok… you sucker punched me big time with that link to a Heritage Foundation blog! Come on dude! …that ain’t news or the truth!
Ok…now I see where your hatred comes from, I went back and read some more of the articles in the link you “provided”… what a bunch of garbage, It’s American hating-corporate loving swill! It spewed hatred in every article, screaming that they are the victims of liberals and their media, single women, minorities, entitlement programs. You know the usual righwing neocon blustering self serving hatred.
Now that I know where you’re coming from I feel totally free to ignore your posts.
And thanks for the link! LOL!
This story about the downfall of Hostess has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives. Put a spin you want on the situation, but there’s enough information out there from both liberal and conservative sources to make an assessment of who is responsible for the loss of 18,000 jobs in one fell swoop. Both sides agree this company, Hostess, was mismanaged for years and years and has gone through bankruptcy proceedings before in order to save it. They also agree the Teamsters Union agreed to the last proposal by Hostess. The baker’s union, however, after being shown the company’s books, balked and forced the company to close its doors in order to cut its losses. Now what part of this do you disagree with? All this information has been checked by various sources, liberal and conservative. Sherman2, I think this time you are on the wrong side of the issue. I hate to admit this shameful behavior by the baker’s union, as I myself was a proud member of a workers’ union for over 30 years right up to the time of my retirement recently. But the facts in the case are the facts no matter how repulsive they may sound. I see no real reason at this point not to admit that the bakers union’s obstinacy is the cause of the factory production and distribution network shutdown.
Thanks for sharing. Powerful.
What the Republican Party is supporting is a system of servitude: making citizens as weak as possible by minimizing the quality and quantity of jobs. Give the rich maximum control as they get richer and richer.
During America’s Golden Age (1950’s-1960’s) the owners cared about the employees, there was a familial feel. Now, it’s pure greed. And history shows that when greed wins, everyone loses.
You’re making stuff up. Workers are being treated better than ever before. Thanks in part to unions and labor laws. It has little to do with corporate greed or the Republican party. As usual you’re obsessed with your hatred for the rich.
The pride is exhibited in the rich, people like Steve Jobs, who was building a monster yacht shaped like an iphone before he died. The workers continued to build it on his money after he was dead. Where was the shipyard? In Holland.
http://news.yahoo.com/steve-jobss-secret-yacht-looks-giant-iphone-004847219.html
Keep on striking, but don’t think the food stamps, heat assistance, and a false promise of ‘free’ health care will last very long, especially with the droves getting in line nowadays
those who are dependent will reap the harvest they have sown
Then the towns an cities will half to step in
Or…what’s more likely is that it will create more social dysfunction and put more strain and suffering on the economy.
When people feel powerless over their destiny they look for ways to even the odds. The only time in US history when socialism and communism became significant movements was the gilded age. It was the rise of unions that defeated those movements.
When the US rebuilt Germany and Japan it insisted on unions to balance those social forces and it worked.
Right. When John Kenneth Galbraith wrote of three counterveiling forces necessary to keep things in balance in an industrial/financial society, he described the roles of capital, labor and government. Take any one out of the picture and we get an unhealthy imbalance. Labor has been pretty much taken out of the picture, which is good news for capital’s unchallenged influence in government, but for how long will it be good news, considering the steady decline of the once vast middle class built to a large degree through successful efforts of organized labor?
Thanks for this important bit of theory. Adam Smith, as you probably know, would claim we don’t live in a free market today. For one thing, the owners, don’t put the money back into the local communities. And labor mobility has been eliminated by exporting jobs to China.
Unions were necessary in Europe as a social vehicle to weld people together post ww2. There were hardly two bricks on top of each other… much less societal structures. The unions there operate under much less freedom than unions here do. One really can’t draw comparisons.
The unions were quite socialist pre-ww2. The rise of communism was not defeated by the unions in the US. In fact the unions only became anti-communist after ww2. Then only during good economic times.
It really doesn’t matter though. The US is the US and Europe is Europe two wildy different models.
Your correct, they are different models in terms of how they function and what they produce because of the way they have been integrated into the process by management.
That was my point.
ok These people were NOT dependent…. they were the “contributors” GET IT?? That is why YOUR side lost . The middle class is on the dole now and aren’l going to put up with your nonsense, because they know it is not THEIR fault.
I’m sure by now many of those workers who lost their jobs woke up one morning since wondering what happened to their jobs. Now it finally dawns on them one of their unions did them in. At a time when there is a paucity jobs, any job is always better than no job. Unless there’s some change in the air, the loss of nearly Maine 600 jobs, 18,000 nationwide, is not good news no matter how one spins it, like this newspaper has been trying to do.
maybe arrogance also
If the company was down financially, what was the company to do? The workers and their union bosses decided to close it down instead of helping to keep it open. It was not the company’s choice obviously. Now the workers can get in line for their freebies and enjoy a nice long vacation they had hoped to get at tax payer expense.
You exhibit the perfect slave mentality: always blame the worker, never blame the rich, don’t question authority, if something bad happens it’s the worker’s fault. If you are sick and can’t afford a doctor, it’s your fault.
It’s a great attitude — if you want to live in a Banana Republic.
What workers? the Union was on strike, if they had been working they could have contiuned to work and work out a contract keeping an income.
Yours is the perfect slave mentality..
“I’ll never be able to take of myself.” “I need a master to pay me.”
“I’m only a poor worker.” Listen to yourself. Pitiful really.
As for questioning authority. It’s you day after day I see whining about giving more power to the government. The ultimate authority.
Maybe the workers were still bitter about their previous concessions to “save the company” being used for insane executive bonuses . Can you blame them?
Do you ever ask why or have you stood up for yourself in a matter. Workers need to stand up for themselves. They are not sheep as you believe they should be.
There’s a time and place for everything under the sky. The workers and their union bosses did themselves and their company in. This company was struggling and had been for quite some time. The workers in essence shut it down rather than concede to lesser benefits while it was merely trying to stay afloat until better times. Sorry, but I don’t feel sympathy for the workers who chose the path of unemployment for themselves.
Workers are not sheep. That’s for sure. Being an employer is a lot like herding cats.
you need to look at sassyfras’s link… and the CEO’s pay and the rest of the actual facts ( not the one’s coming out of you know where) And yopu need to put down that adolescent fantasy of Ayn Rand’s
I don’t care about ideology. I care about the severe job loss that will negatively impact the entire state possibly for years to come. The fact remains this company has been dying a slow death, and its workers and union bosses gave it the death knell. The taxpayer will now have to come to the rescue of each of these workers. Too bad, no one has gained anything and everyone has lost something in one way or another.
Pride would come in if the company allowed pride in the workforce, but they are corporate raiders.
If they get a minimum wage job, and work about 30 hours a week (part time) they make too much to qualify for all those social programs. Nice try though.
Not true Dane. My friend works 25 hours a week driving a school bus at $15 an hour. She gets $200 a month in food stamps and $800 a year in LLIHEAP. Nice try, right back at you.
133% Poverty level for a single person is $14,856 yearly to qualify for benefits. Your friend comes in under that even though they get $15 and hour because school buses run 35 weeks not 52. Your friend makes $13,125, and depending on the program even that amount of money can effect the amounts they qualify for. 30 hours a week and they would be over the income limit.
Either way Dane, this is just more anecdotal evidence that we are truly in a race to the bottom these days. More and more working Americans are finding themselves in the same leaking boat these days. My friend is in the teamster’s union. They just agreed to another three year contract with no COLA. If your pay is not going up around 3% a year to keep pace with inflation, it is the same as taking a pay cut. We used to reward workers for a job well done with raises. Now, we give them pay cuts.
Teamsters union said average wage was $1000/wk. That’s 52K per year with FULL health insurance, working for a company that’s been in trouble before and in it’s second bankruptcy. I’d say their union helped to drive them under…
That’s for the Teamsters, and they took concessions. The Union that the vulture capitalists are complaining about is the Bakers Union. Their average salary is 30-34k. You are aware that there are more than one Unions in this country right?
For a reference – Bangor policemen don’t earn anything near 30-34K. And what are their working hours and conditions like? And who’s griping?
They should pay what the market bears! If there’s a high demand for jobs, why should they pay 30K when someone will work just as hard for 24K? Should I have to pay $5 for a loaf of bread so someone working there can have more channels on their HDTV and fancy i Phones? I support companies who do everything they can to keep prices low. Want to make more money? Work harder, earn promotions, climb the ladder! There are plenty of people who would fall over themselves and work 60 hours a week to get that $24K! Rah rah free markets!
Because people are not willing to take 8 % wage cut lying down. Would you? Trying to characterize hard working people as moochers is why your side got handed their hat!!!
When times are hard it’s time to tighten one’s belt. The workers and their union simply refused to do that to save their jobs. Given no alternative to continue its operations the company had no choice but to close down. The result of all this is as follows: Nearly 600 Maine workers lost their job, 18,000 nationwide all told. Families of these workers will suffer. So will their communities and the entire state that is desperate for jobs. It will take many years for all affected to recover from that trauma.
In contrast when a new business opens its doors and hires a mere 10-15 people it’s cause for celebration everywhere throughout the state that is starving for lack of jobs.
The company did not do everything they could to keep the prices low. First start with not taking a 300% pay raise.
Except that they are/have been working $1 annually. Give up that falsehood.
Have you got a link to support that claim?
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2012/04/09/hostess-cuts-four-executives-pay-to-1-after-big-july-raises/
Yeah, only because they got caught…had the UNION not said anything about it, it would have been “business as usual.”
Holy Crap!! First they were working for a 300% pay raise. Then they
weren’t…the it was the union making statements… Crap. . The union had nothing to do with it…. read the article. It
was the creditors. The people the company owed money to…. vendors etc.
The union came in after the fact and cried foul. They had no standing with the court in this.
Active imagination you have.
The company filed bankruptsy because of the union failing to meet concessions; you don’t suppose that the company knew there financial situation was in trouble, do you??? One thing that you people can’t seem to comprehend; that is that a company exists to make a profit, and if that profit is eliminated, regardless of the reason, then the company will either close or ask the ‘annointed’ one for a bailout……. Keep watching folks, what with Obummercare and the green light for unions to do there thing with the blessing of our fearless leader, you are going to see mass layoffs and closures in this country that will make the present 23 million unemployed seem like the good ole days……….. But I quess that’s the price we pay for getting even with these greedy corporate bastards, right??????????????
right
The company would not have been happy paying them 10 cents a hour. They bought this company to put it out of busiess.
yeah that and lose $300 million of their own money they put in…. Smart business folks theses.
The company would have been happy just to stay alive. That however requires it to make a “profit” (oh, that ugly word again!). The workers, particularly their union bosses, could or would not understand that. In their minds all companies are just greedy corporations trying to put down the working man. Regrettably this mentality seems to be pervasive in today’s society. What will it take to change this destructive mentality? Surely we can no longer depend on our politicians to help us out of this dilemma. They helped foster this negative attitude, and now we are reaping its bad fruits.
And you could find your employer making similar demands of you sometime without a Union to fight for you.
Anyone here willing to take an 8% pay cut??
Better than 100%
What about the cuts they took in 08 ?
If it was a choice of that or my employer closing and me taking a 100 percent pay cut, yes I would!
REALLY ? Even when the CEO’s are taking a 300% raise??I don’t believe either of you, one iota.
Not true.
Yes, if your question is do you keep a job with benefits or
have no job and benefits. You keep the job with health care and income. Only a
fool leaves the job.
While the top 19 managers of the company gets million in raises!!!!?
Management is no longer concerned with COMPANY profit!! They are concerened with their bouses, stock options, leveraged buyouts, severence packges… there is no shortage of money when it come to management salaries, theonly shortage is their “inability” to pay the work force who they spit on…
The unions mad hostess deliver their bread and twinkies in a different truck instead of using the same truck, then when the truck got there, a different person had to unload it, not the driver… That is your Union for you…
Nice cherry picking Stevey__Dee. No mention of positive union accomplishments? Like the 40 hour work week. Overtime after 40 hours. Worker safety laws that have saved thousands of lives. Vacations, Worker benefits healthcare, and a living wage. You do realize that the majority of our founding fathers were members of the world’s oldest union, the brotherhood of Masons. A large percentage of our articles of freedom were taken directly from the teachings of Masonry. Or as you probably call them, dirty lazy union hacks.
Unions did good back in the day, but are no longer required…
Why would you do if all unions were gone an the employers started taking away benefits . Put all there employees on 30 hrs. a were an no benefits . Don’t say it won’t happen because its all ready started that will be the new America put to the workers while they give them selfs a raise
Your ignoring “the day” before. Why did unions arise in the first place?
Nobody doubts unions have their place in history. Like all good things, people carry it to excess. When you have unions force inflexible work rules and create a culture of cronyism the company loses the ability to be competitive. Thats why you see a steady decline in union membership and union companies. At some point the only successful unions will be for the millionaire athletes.
What about the steady decline in wages over the last 30 years? Any simplistic explanation for that?
What decline? My wages have more than tripled over the last 15 years. Still seems like I never have enough…
You are the exception, not the rule in 2012 Maine Eric. Most people fail to realize that if their pay is not going up 3% a year to keep pace with inflation, it is the same as taking a pay cut. “Free” trade screwed Maine worse than just about any other state.
The trick is, if people are unsatisfied with their job, to find a new job. I’ve worked for 6 different companies in multiple states over the last 20 (oh my!) years. It’s always been a step up. I’m by no means rich but I’m doing ok. I’ve never understood the people who are in an unsatisfying job and they keep coming back. The expectation that you will get ahead by staying in the same place usually doesn’t pan out.
Thats because do not know how to manage you money
That may not be true…..15 years ago things cost less, maybe 15 years ago this poster was a swinging single and now they have a family to provide for.
The fact is necessities cost more now! People fight for minimum wage increases but even that doesn’t garuntee that those working hard above minimum wage are getting a raise as well
Its a race to the bottom folks….wait for the Super Inflation to hit…pretty soon we’ll all be screwed equally. I guess ….8)
Good for you. We are talking about two different things. Yes, individual effort and competence is essential for producing individual success.
This issue is about the elements that we need to produce a vibrant, sustainable economy. You income has tripled, but do you have the same expectation for the future? Does anyone? The decisions we make as individuals do not always translate to the larger society.
From a professional management point of view, managing people is a well developed science. So is business management. Loading a company with debt and exposing it to the vultures is just poor management.
Yes. Excesses are always a problem and both those at the bottom and the top have at times been in need of adjustment. Though it does seem the latest trend of excess is trending most at the top. No?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/Users/cunninghamlg/CEOvsWORKERcomp.jpg?uuid=DvkH0JuIEeGewk3kPCNo5A
(There are plenty of others, this was just the first that came up)
Excess comes from all quarters. The difference is the people at the top can move a factory, save the company millions, and get a bonus. The people at the bottom can strike, cost the company millions, and get the factory moved. Either scenario isn’t good for the union members at the bottom. We could also talk productivity. A ceo can sink or save a company on an individual level while a union cake wrapper isn’t going to have much impact overall. Just a cog in the machine. It is nice when you see companies that achieve the balance between management and workers that allows all to thrive. It’s the only path to long term success. Imagine a situation where a CEO runs a company of 100,000 employees. He makes $100 annually per employee while they make $35,000 annually. He makes a cool $10 million but the vast majority of income coming into the company is divided amongst the employees (3.5 billion). Sounds like the trick is to find a way to have 100,000 people working for you.
I’d recommend a fairly modest base salary, with large bonuses being based on merit – profit. No profit, no bonus.
As you say, a CEO can save or sink a company, but they’ll be compensated the same either way.
The millionaire athletes should be treated the same way. Pay by performance, not potential. .225 hitters and CEOs that run companies into the ground making millions is obscene.
Each and every one of the things you mentioned are negotiable. Companies that know what they are doing have no trouble getting concessions when they have a history of making a case for a change and keeping their promises.
Companies like BMW and Toyota (Japan)have made extraordinary advances in production and quality. They did it with the cooperation and participation of the unions.
Unions have brought us all of the milestone laws and legislation that most working Americans now enjoy – and for that I am grateful. However, now we have laws, and legislation and unions seem to serve another purpose. I think some (not all) unions exploit workers more than corporations do and sow discontent to remain valid and collect dues. Unions constitute a huge lobbying interest which could push for more legislation around wages, benefits, and working conditions. Instead, wages are still low, people are unhappy, businesses shut down, and unions profit. System seems rigged from all angles if you ask me (not that you did).
Private union membership is down to 7% in America. How much “stroke” do you think they really have in Washington?
The relationship between companies and unions is complex which is why you need professional business managers to balance that relationship. It is a constant challenge to manage people, union or no union.
It all comes down to management.
The laws protecting workers are easily circumvented. Reagan set out to weaken unions and put in motion a relentless effort to destroy unions because they were a hedge against greed. It is no surprise that the loss of earning power of workers and obscene profits going to the top is the result.
So you do not think you have benefited from the union ?
Yes, but they are no longer required, all they do is look out for themselves, they had a purpose back in the day, now they are just greedy..
How do you look out for your safety if the company puts you in danger ? Not at BIW they look out for the company an the workers.
Yes, back in the day when companies used people up and then threw them away because their were thousands of desperate workers lined up to take their place.
Sound familiar?
There were inefficiencies like you describe which begs the question of why didn’t the company negotiate to correct these things in the last contract? They didn’t even try. They didn’t even try to address basic costs.
Read the history and if you have any management training at all you will see that this company was brought down by greed.
This is a classic case where the union screwed up, royally!
Why didn’t the company up date there products ? Why did the ceo get a raise ? How many ceo’s have they gone thru ??
How much updating does bread need? It’s not exactly a rapidly advancing technology.
what about up date there products . What about up dating there machines ? What about the input for the employees ?
Funny other companies have up dated there products why don’t you run thoses companies down for up dating there products
What are you talking about? I don’t recall running any company down for anything. You wondered why Nissen hadn’t updated their products and I questioned how much updating the products of a baked-goods company require. Full stop, the end. At no point did I run anybody down. You may have mistaken me for someone else.
This is a bit of a union own goal, though. It’s always a risk in brinkmanship: they called management’s bluff and then found out, I would imagine somewhat to their dismay despite the “victory of union resolve” posturing, that it wasn’t one. if your policy is to play chicken, sometimes you’re gonna lose.
Did the company ever go to the workers an get there input ?
I ran my own business for a long time and always asked my guys if they saw any way to improve efficiency or safety. You would be surprised at how many good suggestions I received. Most managers are far too arrogant to ever ask a lowly worker about anything. Big mistake in my book.
Wow! For once we can agree! There are tremendous benefits to be gained by encouraging employee input – no question, but I suspect you and I both come from non-union shops. My anecdotal experience is that many unions discourage this type of active cooperation with management.
It makes you wonder how many great ideas have been quashed over the centuries by arrogance and egotism at the top?
Sad, but true and you might want to throw in a war or two for the same reasons.
Cowardly old men start wars. Brave young men finish them.
At BIW the union wanted there people to show them were they would save money an cut cost an the union gave there blessing because the employees will get a bigger bonus when the ship was complete
Do you know why the managers thats because they would look dumb an they are scard that you would firer them
You don’t seem to be questioning why or how they even got to this point. This is a company that does $2.3 billion in sales. Anyone can look at the balance sheet and see that it was debt that brought them down.
I’m not questioning it because it’s academic at this point. It’s like arguing about who started a fistfight while the house is burning down.
I think that Eugene is referring to making their product more up to date with the trends that today’s consumers are purchasing. People today are eating a more healthy diet, and the focus is on more natural foods, rather than foods that have a listing of ingredients more at home in a chemistry lab than in a kitchen.
read this http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/19/hostess-sun-buyout/?hpt=hp_t3
They could come up with 6 new variations on Twinkies but I bet the original will still be the top seller. You only get a certain amount of shelf space in the stores and you fill it with the products that people will buy. If you don’t do that you will get some space taken away from you.
Other companies buy space to have there product in areas were the people go to buy products. How i know this is true i was looking for a product an i found one brand were the potato chips are . So i ask one of the mangers why an he told the company bough the space so they could display there salsa were the potato chips are.
Yes, they make all kinds of deals to get space but they’ll still lose it if they put much stuff there that doesn’t sell. I mostly buy Little Debbie snacks – especially the ones that they rebrand “Great Value” for Wal-Mart. It’s rare to see the shelves full.
If it was the union how come the company has gone thru 6 ceo’s in 10 years ? That does not sound like a good company if they go thru that many ceo’s. What about the cost of the ingerdients that go into making thee product that keeps going up
Maybe they needed stimulus money!
You should have eaten more twinkies bill. You could have saved them. I blame you. :D
Not with the people that is running the company now i bet they would give them selfs a bigger raise
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/11/19/hostess-sun-buyout/?hpt=hp_t3
Now there’s a face I haven’t seen for awhile!
Life was good for awhile wasn’t it… now we have Brian’s wisdoms and truths to guide us all
Maybe they need to learn how to RUN a business instead of just how to extract whatever value they can get.
How is the union responsible for the $860 million in debt? I’ve been reading the history of this case for days. During the last contract negotiation the company didn’t even try to address fundamental flaws and costs.
Each time some new savior piles on they make millions upfront and in this case the two PE companies and most of the “investors” made their profit upfront. They took it from the $2.3 billion dollar income.
The workers had nothing to gain by keeping it going. They already will likely lose their pensions which the government will bail out at $.30 on the dollar.
You will be paying their pension, their unemployment whatever.
Keep kissing up to these corporate vultures. They will get to you eventually.
Also they gave back in 08 to keep the company going but people don’t remember that ?
That’s the Bain Capital method! Buy into a struggling company; take loans on their equity, pocket that money than blame the unions, bankrupt the company, strip away the unions and pensions and then sell the company for a few more bucks to put in their pocket, and the new buyers have a “clean” company where they can pay minimum wages and 30 hour weeks, no union, no pensions, no healthcare, no benefits. And when the press comes knocking … you tell them you tried to save the company but the employees expenses were just too much!
This country will be reduced to minimum wage, no benefit jobs and then collapse, then the guys who took all the money will plead ignorance and blame the remaining 99% for their greed.
I agree with you. I have worked both union and non-union. In my current job I have seen how I can work harder for less. When
I started this job we had about 144 employees, mostly full time.
As workers left or were terminated those jobs became part-time.
While we are expected to provide the same level of service with less bodies the dollar value of their stock has increased. I would hate to be a young person trying to raise a family the way things are today.There seems to be a lack of common sense. My thought has been when I need help at work I go to management. However when management is more into enforcing company policy then learning their job it makes for a more stressful job. These corporations seem to cater to the ones that can give up their own principles and values for a dollar or a title. When I leave my job at the end of the day, I know that I have given more then I have received and that feels good.Union or non-union, if you do not work that way it will never get better. I can stick up for myself. Some can’t and these are the ones that become puppets. I believe that’s what the Nissen workers did and I wish them well.
this is the business world according to MITT–vulture capitalism — i hope none of them were fool enough to vote for Romny.
read this http://finance.fortune.cnn.
the company was asking them for an 8% pay cut… have you ever taken an 8% pay cut to “save the company” and preserve a tripling of CEO pay ?? I wouldn’t . and you would be a fool, if you would. Looking at saasyfras’s link it looks like the greed was all at the top.
After decades of nearly zero marketing of their products I honestly didn’t even know this company was still in business. They certainly got a lot of sales and FREE advertising this week! Lets hope “this time” those who are managing this company can utilize our new awakening of their existence to update their product line, start some real marketing, continue producing products (a little healthier would be recommended) and stay in business for another generation.
agreed….without union thuggery
Let them eat cake
Unions are dying, get use to it…….
What will you do when all unions are gone an you employer reduces you pay triples your insurance an puts you on 30 hrs. a week an you have no other benefits
How else will businesses pay for ObamaCare, union extortion and taxes? You ain’t seen nothin yet!
thats easy to say .You get a diffrent job an they do the same there what do you do then ??
take money from the over paid ceo’s get rid of there planes, get rid of the benefits that ceo’s like the company house up in the mountains ect
Good luck with that. Just because greed hasn’t reached you yet does not mean it will not. This trend of greed motivating everything is unsustainable and it will reach you eventually.
The company will extort the money out of the workers
Myself I’d just go back to self employment, or find another employer. I never have and never will be held hostage by anyone or any company.
You have older workers there so would it be easy for them to get another job ? How many of those workers are near retirement age say 5 years left before they retire an you expect them to find another job ?
I guess they should have stayed on the job and waited it out for 5 years instead of sinking their own ship.
I have a hard time seeing the word rejuvenated in the same sentence with Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Not to begrudge the brewers their jobs, but what are you consumers thinking!? Thats some nasty swill… :-)
No man, it’s like ironically good. :P
If there is a new buyer in the loop…I bet there won’t be a union anywhere near! Unions destroy business and jobs!….time to eat your peas liberals!
The CEO” destroy the company do a rersearch an you will see he did nothing for the company
That is simply not true. A union is an organization that collectively bargains for workers. It has zero power over the day to day decisions of the company. It had zero input into the decision to take on $860 Million in debt, the last $75 million at 12% interest. This is a classic case of vulture capitalism from start to finish.
The description of the firing of managers who attempted to balance the expectations of the workers is consistent with my own observations at many levels of management. Today’s corporate bean counters have no clue about making and keeping agreements.
Professional managers never let these situations get to this point. Professionally managed companies may have or not have unions. It has nothing to do with why this company went bust.
There are conflicting stories but a possible buyer is Bimbo brands from Mexico,, The largest bakery in the world. Some stories say that buying US located facilities would be a violation of anti-trust. Does that mean that they could buy the brand and move it to Mexico?
El Grupo Bimbo – prostitute union? :D
New owners won’t take on union pension debt. Will have to be sold after the bankruptcy.
For all you union haters what about other cost that go up all the time that the company has no control over ? Taxes, insurense ,, ect
Nope keep it closed an evil corpration wants to make money with it
What everyone seems to forget, is that this corporation has asked for, and received, concessions from these employees on two occasions. This company, according to many analyst, was and continues to make money. This is clearly an issue of anticipating profit. No one, not even Donald Trump, can tell me that a business isn’t in business to not make profit., it’s time to end making profits at the employees expense, and it’s time to stop american business’s producing products, formally made in the US, from selling the same product (previously produced here) without a penalty. Maken them pay, put the money into the ACA (Obamacare), then listen to them whine. I wonder, how many millions are being transferred off shore……as I write this?
The Donald,The new Business exec model,another very sad commentary on just about everything.
Here’s a little clue as to just how much money we are talking about. I have no problem with people making money, I do have a problem with people not paying their fair share of taxes.
http://global.christianpost.com/news/67-trillion-bank-trend-us-shadow-banking-earns-8-trillion-more-than-nation-85236/
The company was losing almost a million dollars a day.
…..maybe. But they have asked, and were asking the equivalent of a million dollars a day from their employees. If you can’t compete, you can’t compete. A company cannot continually ask it’s employees to pay it’s bills, they have their own bills to pay. It’s sad that this company has to end, but it cannot blame it’s demise on it’s employees, and simply disregard it’s inability and responsibility to compete. What is the ultimate purpose of a business?…….to make money. What’s the ultimate purpose of purpose of employment? ….to make money. The difference lies on what satisfies one, as opposed to the other.
Just another nail in the coffin for Unions, get use to it…
Go Unions! Never give up.
6 of the wealthiest people on earth are the Walmart family, while 5000 low paid Maine Walmart workers are registered as Maine welfare recipients.
Give up what ?
their jobs like the Hostess fools did.
The Herd is ready to be culled,again
Hostess workers were already losing their jobs.They were being picked off one worker after another.
For all you union men, women, and supporters on here, don’t let these anti-union folks get you down or p!ss you off. They don’t get it, never will, and I have come to realize I don’t really care anymore if they don’t want to better their lives. I know unions aren’t for everyone. There’s the people who have their own business, and that is great for them. I hope you don’t treat and pay your employees slave wages. There are people in other jobs that are not traditionally unionized and that is fine for them if they are happy. I believe most people on here who detest unions do so out of jealousy. They chose those non-unionized jobs and are now probably stuck in them. These striking Hostess workers are saying management treats them like dirt. They are just a number on a payroll ticket. Hostess hires the college graduates into management who think the piece of paper they hold makes them smart. I experience the same thing at my union job. We get these college whiz kids who know it all and who do not listen to the men who do the work. It has become a game to dump all our day to day basic operations on them and watch them screw everything up. We just open our pockets and they pour the money into them. The only thing they are good at is “hiding in the weeds” trying to catch someone violating some obscure rule. Anyway, I’m done trying to talk common sense into these anti-union ranters. Let them eat stale cake.
For you Maine taxpayers that do not understand Unions
Would you prefer Hostess pay their workers: minimum wage,no health coverage, and let Maine taxpayers pay the workers’ food,housing and health coverage expenses? While a few executives live in million dollar homes. That is the direction the company was going.
The striking workers would have been unemployed sooner or later.
The way that I see it is… There will be a market even though Hostess will not be there. If there is a demand, some other company will fill the void. The down side is that the locals might not be able to fill the void because the new company may not be in the same local area. Lets see if the company that steps up to fill the void will learn from the past experiences not to make the same mistakes as Hostess did. If Management doesn’t appreciate the work that is being done by the workers there will always be dissent. Treat employees decently and they will work their hearts out. An agreement between a company and its employees is just that… An agreement! Good luck to both.
And banks, gas stations, small grocery stores, hardware stores and even newspapers. Corporate and technologic progress…
The union workers are not smart. Close the company and union works go find another sucker.
I don’t see how they can sell their junk. the ‘snacks’ are basically just sugar bomb crap and the white bread is garbage. you can take a whole loaf and compress it to the size of a baseball with your bare hands.
There has to be something more useless than unions, but i cannot think of what it might be offhand. With all the federal and state laws on the books, they do not even have a need to exist. They are simply,in one word. CORRUPT.
Sure, who wants to take a pay cut? Not me! However, a bad paycheck is better than no paycheck. They should have taken the pay cut and quit after finding a better job. Why would anyone rather live on welfare? Where’s the pride? They should be embarrassed. They should be ashamed, living off the expense of their neighbors.
There used to be “glory days” throughout our fair state for many businesses…..from paper-making, shoe manufacturing, lumbering, seafoods, potatoes, furniture to a whole list of Maine grown & made products, including twinkies…..many of those glorious days are gone and may never return…..cheap foreign labor & cheap imported products from other sources have taken over and driven many a business into a thing of the past…..high cost(s) for utilities and transportation costs for getting Maine products into the market overwhelm many small to moderate sized business….Maine has stopped using it’s greatest resources (forests & sea) due to costly and prohibitive regulations that strangle business that depend on these natural resources…..we have abandoned our natural avenues for producing power and gone green to the point that, well to the point that these glory days are nothing but history…..Crazy…..
Nice that you’ve wrapped your theory of what is wrong with Maine business up in a bow…too bad your wrong.
These economic issues are complex and they don’t just happen overnight. There are thousands of factors that effect hundreds of individual businesses. It took the US auto industry 25 years to achieve the levels of quality that the Japanese and Germans had achieved in auto manufacturing. They didn’t win American market share, they earned it by producing quality and meeting customer demands.
The paper mills in Maine that have shut down have done so because of mismanagement and lack of investment in technology. The light weight coated grades went to Europe where all the mills are union and have tougher environmental regulations and higher taxes. The Maine mills that were well managed are all doing well. Hinkley, and Madison are two examples.
Well, here I guess you seemingly have corrected me….I didn’t “wrap” my theory up in any limited bow, and agree with what you have stated regarding there are many reasons for losses which have occurred, such as lack of technology and quality which have absolutely affected job and business loss in Maine….if you are dismissing any of the reasons I referenced as not affecting loss of business in our fair state then so be it from your perspective but personal experience speaks to some of the very reasons I mentioned….you reference a couple of industries, I referenced a few more…..business leaders from Maine are going around the state, and have commented over the last few years, as to reasons for the decline of Maine’s business climate…..they will continue speaking to many issues and/or problems and bottom line is that business in Maine is struggling on many levels and if the trend continues, more will go into the history books…..
I can talk about the Maine paper industry because I worked in it at many different levels. Labor was always an issue, but I can tell you that the operators that I worked with did care about their jobs. They did work hard, but they struggled against the lack of investment to provide them the tools and the training to produce the increases in quality that customers were demanding. Maine paper is dear to me. It is a perfect industry for Maine. Back in the 80’s I could have predicted which mills would stay and which would go based on the way they were managed. I would have been 100% correct. Those of us who cared tried to address these issues. When I got to corporate I saw the cause. Great companies like mine were forced to make decisions to ward off hostile takeovers. These pressures, which have absolutely nothing to do with producing a quality product drove it into bankruptcy.
I have been paying attention to the comments from Maine business leaders. What I hear is they need customers. Tax breaks and reducing red tape is part of a short term fix, but there is still a lot of inefficiency in these businesses and if we only look at the short term than we are in a race to the bottom.
Compare a company like Cianbro who has grabbed market share by doing what business should do…manage their business well. Exceed expectations. Be who you say you are.
Frankly, I think the best thing that the state can do for Maine business is offer free business management classes because a lot of the problem is basic business management issues.
The cost of labor is part of it, but only as relates to the value of that labor. In today’s markets and narrow profit margins I still see companies taking customers for granted. In a recession the only option a company has for growth is grab market share. The best way to do that is delight customers. We all know when we are delighted, it’s business MANAGEMENT 101.
If its cheap enough maybe the Nissen family will make an offer ?
These workers are so dilusional…. you go on strike, and shut the plant down, and you expect a new buyer to be open arms to you? You showed what your work ethic is and dedication by not working to keep the plant alive. Dont expect miracles with the new buyer. I wouldnt be surprised they consolidate and shut plants down after the sale.
I would not hire any one of those who striked!
Dont worry!…You voted for obama and democrats!…With that you get unions and obamacare and obamafones..Please wait while they finish turning your neurons into morons…..everything is fine…nothing to see here….move along!
I’m going to miss those orange cupcakes.
I know these employees are hoping for someone to buy this plant and give them their jobs back….What’s unfortunate is that the new company will offer the same low wages and pensions cuts they were striking against…if not even less….That’s how the company will become a money maker again….
The brand might be saved by a new owner but the union scumbags shouldn’t hold their collective breath, no one in their right mind would hire them back.
The unions did not kill hostess, read the link.
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/20/vulture_capitalism_not_unions_killed_twinkies/
what I can’t understand is who buys their garbage anyway. just a vile bunch of sugar bomb garbage and fake bread.