AUGUSTA, Maine — When Gov. Paul LePage sent high school principals copies of an editorial cartoon poking fun at college students who look down on their peers at technical schools earlier this month, he apparently meant to reiterate his message that more emphasis should be placed on technical education.
While LePage’s focus on technical education is widely supported, his denigration of those who aspire to four-year degrees ignores reams of data that show earning a bachelor’s degree pays off. Graduate and professional degrees bring even more benefits.
Earlier this month, LePage sent high school principals copies of an editorial cartoon that featured one student bound for technical school to be a welder and another student heading for a four-year university to attain a liberal arts degree. In the cartoon, which pegs the welder’s starting salary at $50,000 per year and the liberal arts major’s starting salary at $25,000, the liberal arts student looks at the potential welder and thinks, “Loser.”
“We can do better and need to do better,” LePage wrote under the cartoon. “Let’s put our students first.”
On Wednesday, LePage reiterated his point about the virtues of technical education with a press release touting a recent Georgetown University study that found that annually in the United States, some 29 million jobs paying between $35,000 and $75,000 a year go to workers without bachelor’s degrees. The report calls career and technical education “the missing middle ground in American education and workforce preparation.”
Recent data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, however, showed clearly that higher levels of education lead to higher pay and a much better likelihood of employment. Studies by the Census Bureau and College Board have found the same thing.
“We need to do more to ensure that career and technical education is seen as a valid, mainstream path,” said LePage in a Wednesday press release. “It’s another choice for students, and must be a bigger part of Maine’s academic future.”
A more robust career and technical education system in Maine could be part of the solution to the state’s economic woes and students for whom a four-year degree is neither possible nor desired, according to LePage, who has repeatedly said infusing more people with technical skills into the workforce is crucial.
“I hear from Maine businesses all the time that they have jobs for skilled workers, but they can’t find the people to fill the jobs,” said LePage. “We’re an administration that is changing the culture in education so we better prepare them for the jobs of today. No child deserves to slip through the cracks because of a lack of options.”
Even with a slogging economy and an unemployment rate of about 7.6 percent, Maine’s manufacturing sector has long said it is starved for employees. At the end of last year, the Maine Manufacturer’s Alliance said there were hundreds of jobs available among the alliance’s 380 members.
According to data from the Maine Department of Labor, in 2008 there were approximately 1,800 jobs for welders, cutters, solderers and brazers in Maine — like the character in the editorial cartoon LePage circulated — a number which was projected to decline by more than 4 percent by 2018. Those workers could expect a starting income of about $12.52 an hour, which translates to an annual salary of around $26,000 a year. Plumbers and pipefitters — another career usually born of technical education programs — numbered about 2,700 in 2008 and had an average starting salary of $31,000. Jobs in that sector were projected to decline by about 3.4 percent by 2018.
By comparison, public relations workers — who typically would have a four-year degree in liberal arts — could expect a starting salary of about $15.90 an hour, or about $33,000 a year. That sector employed about 1,200 Mainers in 2008 and was projected to grow by more than 9 percent. Writers and authors, of which there were about 880 in Maine in 2008, was projected to increase by more than 10 percent by 2018 and earn a starting salary of about $29,000.
Data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics also refuted LePage’s claims about higher earnings for technical school graduates versus those who earn bachelor’s degrees or higher. In addition to earning more, the data show that unemployment rates decrease drastically as a person’s education reaches higher levels.
For example, a person with higher education experience up to and including an associate degree in 2011 earned nearly $40,000 a year on average in the United States, but faced an unemployment rate of between 6.8 percent and 8.7 percent. The average salary for people with bachelor’s degrees in 2011 was around $55,000, with an unemployment rate of 4.9 percent.
The Georgetown University report emphasized that career and technical training, as well as involvement in community college, leads to further studies for approximately 28 percent of students. It said that there are more post-secondary certificates awarded each year than associate and master’s degree programs combined.
Though LePage has pushed a range of changes in education at all levels in Maine, his focus on creating easier pathways to technical education has been evident in recent initiatives, including new legislation that aligned career and technical programs’ calendars with high schools.
Education Commissioner Stephen Bowen agreed with LePage about how efforts like that can help Maine’s economy.
“We know that these programs provide students with knowledge and training that is not only important to the students themselves, but is crucial for Maine’s economic future,” Bowen said in a press release. “We know that there are employers out there right now, prepared to hire, if only they could find the skilled workforce they need. We need to encourage students to pursue the route that works for them — career and technical education, community college, post-secondary training, and four-year college, or any combination of these and other paths.”
When I first learned of LePage sending cartoons to Principals around the State I didn’t know if it was a good thing or bad. Now that I have had time to think about it I guess it is a positive thing. That is if cartoon communication is a step up from crayon.
We can all take solace in knowing that the only thing supporting the stuff coming out of Mr. LePage’s mouth and mind are other people who rely on cartoons to guide their thoughts and lives. Now all we can do is hope that most folks still choose to pick up a book once and a while and are willing to show up to vote “funny paper” people like Mr. LePage into early Florida retirements in November.
If Lepage is so gung ho on vocational training why didn’t he do it? He is being a hypocrite, he did the opposite of what he is proposing.
No shortage of skill labor just a shortage of employers willing to pay a fair wage.
Exactly!
“why didn’t he do it?” … on other people’s dime, the poor chere’.
But too bad for Maine he did not become a welder.
Now, we know better than electing business executives, who deal with train wrecks or down sizing.
“But too bad for Maine he did not become a welder. ”
I don’t know!
I am glad that he didn’t weld the drag ling in my pickup truck!
That comment was certainly civil.
Ever see a Frenchman try to run a screwdriver?
Lefty loosey —–Righty Tighty!
??? Which end I use?
Aaahhhhh…the great communicator. Now he needs a spokesperson to tell us what he wanted to say.
His whole existence is a cartoon…that HE doesn’t fully understand (except for the “loser” part)
Here’s your sign………L
PPH has no shortage of cartoon communications; so they must be effective.
Given the faux uproar over this cartoon, I kinda wonder if these principals are so out of touch they can’t even ‘get the message’ with a cartoon.
Nitpicking over the wage is really moronic since the cartoon originated in San Diego; perhaps the P.C. crowd want’s the numbers adjusted to the Maine market and the language tailored as well? …..somebody give these out of work English majors a real job.
$25,000-$50,000 a year is nitpicking???? I’m running for governor!!!!
If technical education is so important, pay your Community College people a real wage. Being flat funded for 4 years is a backward proposition….oh crap…they’re unionized.
Never mind!
Word has it they have to earn their wages based on attendance and performance of students, espec. those who are working in their field and have a reasonably good understanding of the subject.
No – their wages are not performance-based or attendance-based.
If this were true – they would be working for decent wages and benefits.
They are not.
Yessah
Spoil sport.
Adjuncts – who make up the majority of Maine Community College System instructors – are not unionized.
An adjunct with a PhD teaching a full load of science courses makes $22k a year with no benefits.
LePage’s daughter – who has only a bachelors degree – makes $41k with full state benefits.
Go figure.
Yessah
LePage and Bowen are such experts on Tech Ed. I would doubt either one knows what an apprenticeship is or would support a State program for apprenticeships. they think all that is taught in school and learned from a book.
Of course, if you have connections, you can land a job as a governor’s aide at $41K plus some outrageous benefits without even having to compete or even having an education pertinent to the position.
Well since Mr. LePage won’t let us see his “working papers” I guess we should all at least be relieved to know where the man gets his own educational materials. From inaccurate right wing cartoons. Does this surprise anybody? Lets choose to look at the bright side here, it does imply that he can actually read. Or perhaps that’s what he needs a $41k straight out of college student/daughter close to his side for?
What in Gods name does LePage’s Daughter getting a patronage job have to do with the desireability of technical education?
Please try to focus on the issue and not make it a reason for you to hate Lepage?
What in the cartoon is not true? Sure education beyond 3rd grade is good but as with everything more is not always better.
The data presented here suggests that more is better.
Which shows why More is not necessarily better.
Taking more medicine than prescribed will not make you well faster, and could very possibly kill you.
The same can be said about education, although it probably won’t kill you.
Some examples:
Would you prefer to take your car for repair to a mechanic with a GED and technical training or a PhD in art history?
If you need a Cardiac by pass would you go to a cardiologist right out of residency, or a Professor of eye surgery ?
Does a carpenter with a degree in Political Science, or Public Relations build a better house?
Is a Computer Technician with years of experience more qualified to fix your computer network or a computer engineer with a Masters in database programming?
Education is a good thing but is not a do all and end all.
You’re correct in a sense. The content of the education is more important than the amount. But in the more marketable fields, like sciences and engineering, more education equals better wages.
Absolutly, in order that education has any value it must be relevant.
If education is not relevant to a career, then it is just for fun but it has no real value.
I was referring to overall income and unemployment levels, not individual career fields. Your examples are funny, but totally miss the point. The Ph.D or Masters degree holder will make more money and have a much lower chance of being unemployed than the mechanic or carpenter.
You are kidding, right?
A PHD in Art History will make someone more employable than an ASE certification?
What world are you living in?
Sigh….sorry, let me repeat myself. I was referring to overall income and unemployment levels, not individual career fields. I said someone with a Ph.D, period. Not your silly hypotheticals. I refer you to the chart at the top of this article, which is what I was talking about in the first place. Your art history example (which makes up such a miniscule percentage of all Ph.D’s) is too foolish for me to have responded to.
And the world I am living in is the one outside of freaking Camden. Someone with a doctorate in Art History is not living in Northern Maine, more likely NY, DC, Chicago…your know….places with art museums.
your right. more is not always better. but if you look at the data, it’s pretty clear that less is always worse.
attempting to separate advanced education into parts that you can call “just for fun,” is ridiculous. applying your brain to problem solving of any sort is never of “…no real value.” the simple act of grappling with a problem means you have learned something and are better for it. your definition of “value” is far too narrow and does not account for many benefits of education that are intangible and may not be realized until later.
plenty of value has been created in our economy by people who went to college without a definite idea of what career they wanted. not every degree is going to result in getting a job in that exact field. but the fact you have put in the work to get a four year education speaks very loudly to many people who hire people and sign paychecks.
are you really arguing against getting as much education as you possibly can ?
“What in Gods name does LePage’s Daughter getting a patronage job have to do with the desireability of technical education?”
It shows you the differance of being somebody with a Technical Education ,
and somebody with a connection!
Save your money!
Count on a crooked father!
After a decade of steady tax cuts, the top subject on the minds of businessmen who meet with Mr. LePage is that government isn’t doing enough.
Mr. LePage’s solution: Send out some cartoons.
” …the top subject on the minds of businessmen who meet with Mr. LePage is that government isn’t doing enough.”
that and, “wouldn’t it be nice if the government would create a skilled workforce for me…. and none of that femmy four year stuff, either! tech school for all! even if you’re not sure if you want to spend the next 50 years plumbing or drafting or welding…”
Why do I think the pictures are the only part of the paper that Penguin looks at?
This is not the first time I have heard that Maine has a large demand for skilled labor. Regardless of what studies show, Maine does not have high paying jobs enough for the people who graduate with degrees from 4 year colleges. If a technical student plans to stay in Maine, their chances of getting a good paying job are high. The pay is high as well. Why settle for $25,000 a year to start when they can earn double? Maine simply does not offer a lot of high paying jobs for college grads. LePage is right on this one.
One of the companies that I know of that is always looking for welders is Fisher Plow. From what I’ve been told they don’t pay much over $10 per hour. If you had to pay for your welding school you can’t afford to live and pay back your tuition on that low a starting salary.
The entire Republican party platform is based on the original
Scrooge McDuck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ScroogeFirst.jpg
I think that tech ed is one of the best subjects a kid can be taught nowadays. We need more electricians, plumbers and carpenters and a few less kids with a BA in English.
What would really be good would be plumbers and electricians with degrees in English or history or any of the liberal arts – useful manual skills plus critical thinking and intellectual curiosity = useful citizenship. We need more of it as well.
Absolutely!
Never meet a tradesman that possessed critical thinking to be anything but successful. I know a women with a masters in fine art, she floundered around into her forty’s, when her father convinced her to get a plumbers licence. With the book work and apprenticing in the field for two years she did. Now she’s doing extremely well with her masters. It can work both ways.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I looked at my original post and can see that it comes off as sort of nasty with regard to “BA in English”; I didn’t mean it that way. I just think (and wish, in my case), that Tech Ed was given the good credit it deserves. A lot of folks look down on people who don’t go to a four-year college, and opt for a trade school instead, and it shouldn’t be that way.
I have a BA in English and have found that it enabled me to read and comprehend the ‘instructions’ for any job I’ve needed to learn about. The BA has served me very well. No disrespect to those who pursue a technical school education. There is room for all in the workplace.
Oh, absolutely. I know I shouldn’t have posted the way I did originally, because it sort of comes out against BAs in English! :-) I think that critical thinking skills are a must in today’s workforce, but it never hurts to have a skill that can help people right away, like carpentry or what have you. That way, if you’re wanting to do something really special and great, you at least have something to fall back on while you’re pursuing that dream.
webba
Here is a list of English majors. http://ualr.edu/english/index.php/home/resources/job-info/famous/
now think about all the ancillary jobs that were created by these nerds. you should broaden your horizons on what careers are taken up by English majors. and what value they produce in relation to plumbers, electricians, and carpenters—-all of whom are EMPLOYED by English majors every time they work on a movie by Cameron or a TV show with Conan or Barbara Walters, etc
the only famous plumber i know, not counting the Watergate dudes… is a shill for a political party and as such creates neither intellectual or capital wealth for our society. the only famous carpenter i know gave very explicit orders on what to do with wealth, most of which are conveniently ignored by legions of his followers. i’ll pass on the electricians but i’m sure there are lots of good ones. just like there are lots of good people doing all the jobs we’re talking about.
i think your wrong. we need more English majors AND more plumbers and electricians, and carpenters.
Joshua Chamberlain was an English major.
can you think of a plumber who has done more for this country? LITERALLY?
You make some great points. And English is important. However, I’d take a good plumber over a Josh Chamberlain any day…especially when my toilets backing up. They might not get the banner headlines, but I think more people can relate and be thankful for their local electrician or plumber, if only because their services have directly impacted a person.
I wonder if the problem isn’t a lack of willingness to pay for skilled worker as it 9is a lack of skilled workers? $26,000 a year to weld for a living seems low to me. It’s a job that requires skil and if you want workers to do it you have to pay them for the skill.
There is a shortage of skilled technical workers because we, or the politicians and school administrators, decided to eliminate Industrial Arts Education. To have shop classes, and real computer classes, plus “home economics” — good solid basis for Restaurant management, and the related kitchen operations in a state that prides itself on being a vacation-land.
Liberal Arts is good, business is good, but Technical Education is always critical, someone has to design, build and repair the stuff that gives us our lifestyle. Outsourcing only goes so far.
Personally, I’m a bit biased: I hold a degrees in Industrial Arts Education, and Accounting. Plus I have kids with white collar degrees, Liberal Arts degrees, and one who published her first book when she was twenty (It’s available at most college book stores). On the other hand, just today, the KINDLE version of my third non-fiction book in ten months was released on Amazon.com [Saint Paul’s Joke].
We need Technical Education, and the State needs to provide the funding for proper shops, and technical classrooms — so far as paychecks go, a teacher is a teacher. The cost of Technical Education is in the specialized equipment, and space which could equally amount to that associated with a gym. If we want our society to prosper, we need qualified people at every level.
Tech ed is fine, but whatever happened to on the job the training? This way the employer gets exactly what they want, or at least trained. My guess is employers want somebody else to pay for it.
Regretfully employer’s no longer want to go thru the OJT process since they view that process as a waste of money. Instead they expect the new hire to know it all right off the bat. This is one of THE MAJOR reason’s for the soaring student loan debt crisis. The coorelation is not that hard when you look at it on a timeline. It’s also a major reason so many business’s have such a high rate of turnover in the 1st 30 days of each hire. IA and related business classes are very much needed here. But they need to made part of a whole educational program, not as some kind of after-thought.
And, as my after-thought, can some please show me, on paper and not a press release, the spread of these supposed ‘Tech School’s’ over the State, and the County’s. Simply making a sweeping statement that these school’s exist is a far cry from them actually operating and producing. It’s also not a bad idea to get the local business’s involved with this idea since they are going to be the one’s that are going to be doing the hiring of these same student’s, to a degree (no pun intended !), as as such have vested interest in the education and training these kid’s are going to get before they hit the open job market. Some of the logging company’s, at last report, were doing something like this in the local College’s in the Forestry Management area’s and Conservation field’s. But there’s a lot more business’s and industry’s here in Maine that are just sitting on the sideline’s expecting ‘The State’ to do all of the work. To those I say, GET OFF YOUR KEESTER and get involved. Look and talk to your own kid’s and ask yourselves just what are they gonna do that you’ve contributed to ? The future, and our kid’s opportunity’s, are a lot closer than many realize. Industrial Arts and actual Business Education are just as valuable, and can frequently lead to, a better education and stronger economy for us all.
Money, Sadly they will cut programs like this before they cut a sports program.
$25.00 dollars an hour is about the bottom line for a, don’t ask for any help wage. $15.00 and up to $25.00 is an almost impossible wage, to live on and not ask for any help, but some think it is good money. $15.00 and lower, most will need some help. It varies to how far you drive, living situation, number in the household, but for the most part, comes true.
What fantasy world are you living in?
Not all need the latest gadgets, daily trips to the trendy stores at the mall, and dinners prepared with ingredients purchased at Whole Foods.
Many in this world need to be taught the real meaning of “frugal”, and the way the Obama administration is handling things, that will be happening soon.
Live independently on minimum wage for a year and tell us how it works out for ya.
Yessah
its republican policies that have crushed the middle class–even republicans say so ——“David Stockman, President Ronald Reagan’s director of the Office of Management and Budget, explained in an op-ed piece, “Four Deformations of the Apocalypse,” exactly how the economic decisions of the GOP over the past 40 years, is destroying not just the economy and capitalism, but the America dream”
I could live on minimum wage if I didn’t enjoy indoor plumbing and a hot shower every night and lived in my vehicle.
Minimum wage doesn’t pay the mortgage or rent.
Not many understand frugal as I do, but growing up around depression era people, I learned. Those figures I put down would require one to be very tight with their money.
My telephone wasn’t working. Fair Point said they charge $91.00 a 1/2 hour if they come out to check the pole and find the trouble is inside the house. I don’t know how much the repairman makes out of that amount but it must be quite a bit. [Fixed the phone ourselves. It was the phone line that plugged into the wall, [needed a new one.] Telephone repairman seems to be a good job to learn.
At $ 180 and hour and they needed a Government Grant to get the supposed fibre optic Internet run up to us folk’s, who have yet to see it operating, here in The County tells me all I need to know about how Gov’t and Big Business are working. And don’t even try to tell me that Fair Point can’t afford a Apprenticeship Program or hire returning vet’s, who have better skill’s that most of Fair Point’s supposed installer’s. At this rate Fairpoint could re-string the entire Northern State for less than a month’s worth of supposed Intenet access !
folk’s = folks
vet’s = vets
skill’s = skills
installer’s – installers
The way you present your argument has a lot to do with whether or not people will buy into it. Just a helpful hint!
Why are we subjected to this moron’s ramblings and consistent made-up stories.
Christopher Cousins?
I am no fan of Lapage. However, as a guidance counselor I always felt that there was a stigma in schools regarding tech. education. A four year college isn’t for everyone. Changing the names of tech schools to community colleges helped some. The push to increase the number of students going on to college worked, but maybe to well. I believe that many of those students dropped out and the sad thing is that many of them never went back. Schools need to be more realistic when it comes to helping students prepare for further education My brother always said “someone has to know how to fix the switch when it won’t work.
Well put. This article provides a truckload of statistics on how much better college graduates do (on average). What it fails to mention is that only 56 percent of college students complete four-year degrees within six years. Only 29 percent of those who start two-year degrees finish them within three years.
In other words, after six years, almost half the people who started college still don’t have a degree, plus they have a pile of student loan debt and often much less practical work experience (because they were pursuing a degree instead of a career).
So, suppose you have a student who is more hands-on oriented and not as interested in academics. What are the chances they’ll be part of the 56% that finish college? Not very good, and the student is not being well served if they’re being pushed into going to college.
A liberal arts degree means you have a college degree in nothing but college. Hey look at me I graduated. (which isnt a bad thing) What did they spend to get that degree and how long will it take to pay it back. A trade school degree offers a ROI alot quicker in alot of cases. Its harder to find young people who actually dont mind getting their hands dirty for a living
What is even harder is to find young people who are willing to seperate themselves from their cell phones while they are supposed to be working.
biased or what?
Based on 8 years working in a place with a lot of young people who thought their social life took precedent over work. Too many of them feel that it is their obligation to relate to the world their every emotion and what they have done or are planning to do. It got to the point that management finaly banned all cell phones and other means of electronic entertainment devices from the building.
“What is even harder is to find young people who are willing to seperate
themselves from their cell phones while they are supposed to be working.”
and this is caused by going to college or not going to college?
no one minds cliched stereotyping, but at least relate it to the topic, will ya?
Or with a face full of steel and pants that arent hanging to their knees or neck Tats
he’s both right and wrong. People with degrees make more – if they leave Maine. You can earn 20% more just going across the border to NH, one of the highest paying states in the nation, compared to Maine being one of the lowest. Ultimately though if you’re looking for job security and pay in Maine, go into nursing or some related medical field. Look at the want-ads, more than half are nursing. We have the oldest average population in America (including Nevada and Florida), and not enough people to take care of the old people that stay as the young leave for better opportunities.
Nursing may be good if you have a full RN degree. CNA’s don’t get paid near what they are worth. In some of these assisted living homes they charge the residents $4 thousand and up a month. While they pay the CNA’s $8.50 per hour.
My guess is that New Hampshire’s high average income is largely based on people commuting into Massachusetts from the three counties, Rockingham ($58,150), Hillsborough ($53,384), and Merrimack ($48,522) with the highest household median income. Working from the county closes to Mass, Rockingham ($58,150) to furthest away, Coos ($33,593), you see the same progression that you see in Maine, the difference being that Maine is a much bigger state, and many more people live further from urban areas where earnings are higher. Little known facts: 1) Maine is larger than all the rest of New England put together. 2) It’s further from Caribou to Portland (300 miles), than it is from Portland to the lower left hand corner of New England, which is Greenwich CT (284 miles). One of the further things that limits income in Maine is our long border with Canada, which limits the area where a resident living near the border can look for a job.
Does show how wages need to go up for the working class.The big problem with the economy.
Romney pointed this out in his 47% are victims speech.
Even when Paulie approaches truth, he has to do it in his ham-fisted, derogatory manner.
If I had it to do all over again and I wanted to stay in Bangor I would have gone to school to be an electrician. To do well in Bangor you need to fit the need. Dr’s, lawyers, nurses and GE seem to be the best jobs Bangor offers. My own electrical business would have put me in an even playing field of opportunity……..
Lepage wants more skilled workers in the Trades but is willing to throw them under the bus when they get hurt by watering down workers compensation laws!
Here is a tip kids!
You might make good money for a while as a Tradesmen but your body may quite well fall apart before you are 50 and the likes of Lepage will just throw you on the trash heap in a heartbeat!
Take the desk job!
So just so that I understand-LePage couldn’t pass the entrance exam to college as a direct result of his private, parochial education therefore he wants to dismantle the public education system in favor of a for-profit or private system; LePage finally got into college, with the help of someone pulling strings and getting him special dispensation for admission; LePage goes on to “earn” (not sure if he earned or was “given” his degree) a Masters degree yet he disparages those who have goals of higher education. Okay, got it. Just wanted to be clear. LePage hates himself and he wants to punish everyone else for it.
His cartoon does not make the point that all degrees are worthless. Only that Lib. Arts degrees are not as good as a tech degree. Lumping all degrees and their pay scales and comparing those to people without degrees does nothing to diprove the truth behind the humor.
Let’s compare the real starting Pay of everyone with a BA degree in social services with everyone with a Welding and Pipefitting certification. I want to see those stats.
looking just at the starting pay for each of those fields gives an incomplete view of reality and ignores earnings potential for each career.
the thing about the cartoon is that it’s not that funny and it’s not that true. it’s just kind of divisive , attempting to highlight a separation of classes and careers that just doesn’t exist much anymore, in my experience.
The cartoon and the point isn’t anymore about devisiveness than the whole college elitism attitude that has kept our children convinced that learning a good trade is somehow less than getting a degree in mideival history is. Without further education both fields take you know where but with more training and experience either can take you over 6 figures a year. I knew a welder that eventually did robotic welding on reactors all over the world. Not a year of college and he has more than one nice home in this country.
“the point isn’t anymore about devisiveness than the whole college
elitism attitude that has kept our children convinced that learning a
good trade is somehow less than getting a degree in mideival history is.”
could you give real life examples of this so called “elitism” ? i NEVER see cartoons denigrating fields such as welding, but i hear constantly that there is this snobbery and superiority complex involved in a four year education. in the more than four years i spent getting an English major i never recall even having a discussion about vocational education and the people who were doing that. on the other hand prior to that i had taken welding classes at EMVTI and worked on bridges and dams around the state. in those jobs i did hear cracks about” college boys ” and how effete they are and how books appear to make you stupid and stuff like that. it works both ways, in my experience
no one is saying learning a trade is “less” than getting a Voc Tech degree. where are these people who are running you down and insulting your lack?
all i see is a graph that points out the current unemployment rates for various educational levels. and it’s pretty clear that the more you get the better chances you have of being employed
your anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal. for every non college educated welder with several nice homes, there are probably thousands of people who also have the same level of formal ed. as your friend, but wound up a lot lower on the socioeconomic ladder.
having a degree is no guarantee of anything, you still have to apply yourself after you get out of school, but not having degree definitely decreases your chances of climbing very high up the ladder.
we, and the Gov, should be encouraging everyone to get as much education as they can. not being tone deaf and ignorant when it comes to making the best future for ourselves.
Our Ignoramus-in-Chief does not let mere “facts” get in the way of what the Maine Heritage Policy Center tells him to think.
Yessah
I’d be curious to know if the Governor paid the artist, Steve Breen, for use of his intellectual property.
I really wonder where those welding jobs are that start out at $50,000 per year . Maybe in Alaska, doing pipeline welding. Or maybe someone who has the training to weld exotic aerospace materials like magnesium or titanium.
But let’s take Fisher Engineering, for example. They weld up snowplows, and use normal steel welding techniques. On their website, under “job opportunities” they don’t show any welding jobs. The ONLY job offered is as a “Customer Service Representative” with these qualifications: “College degree preferred but not required. The successful candidate must be willing to develop technical knowledge of the product line; possess excellent communication and presentation skills; have intermediate to advanced skills in Microsoft® Word, Excel, and Outlook.” In other words, they’re not looking for a trade school welder.
This is not to suggest that everyone will realize a positive cost/benefit outcome on borrowing money for a four year degree, particularly as state support for education shrinks. Certainly not from one of the “for profit” online universities like the one that our beloved ex-governor Jocko McKernan is president of.
The upside of the “vocational school to two-year technical college to work” route gets young people into the job force earlier, with a good bundle of skills that will get them on the job, earning, and hopefully learning what it will take to win promotion. That’s the important thing, because vocational jobs tend to require more physical work, and workers work an equation between higher pay and working a transient job. The best-paid pipefitter I know is a union member, and travels all over the country, living in motel rooms and working on shut-down maintenance on power plants. Not a bad job for a single person, or for someone in that brief window between their kids leaving home and age catching up with, making hard physical work, long hours, and the grind of transient living MUCH less exciting than it used to be. As someone who sailed merchant marine, I can say that it’s a difficult line of work for a person with young children at home, who grow up without you.
Mainly, I think the Governor’s comic book approach to the question is stupid. He’s right that college isn’t for everyone, but he’s wrong in suggesting that there’s no advantage to a four year college education. It also suggests a kind of “class warfare” antagonism between college-bound high school kids and those headed for vocational training. LePage must be making the calculation that those pointy-headed liberals with college degrees are not going to vote for him. That’s probably true. My guess is that his only support lies among die-hard Republicans and people who aren’t paying attention.
Careful Steve. Such common sense thinking hasn’t been seen in a very long time and makes the arguement that you are have the vision, and pragmatic perspective, to run for, and win, the next Governor’s election.
really, really good comment.
no need to mention that the competition for “all” those $50,000k welding jobs is fierce. and a lot of welding jobs are semi repetitive manufacturing jobs where wages can be, and usually are, pretty low.
also right on the mark regarding the physical toll some of these jobs exact and how long you can expect to work at some of the more demanding jobs.
Good ol’ Gov., never one to let facts get in the way of his agenda. Must be listening to the national campaign leaders: “I don’t care about fact checkers!”
Good to see the whiny liberals do not have much left to whine about.How about getting involved in the tech schools and see what is going on.Instead of posting the leftist trash against a governor that is trying to improve our state and education.At least he is doing something other than hiding on the BDN and carrying emily and bens water all day.
Yeah – yer Edjamacation Guvnah is doing real gooder.
Unemployment is up.
Poverty is up.
For the Tea Party this November…
The Jig is Up.
Yessah
I hope he gets nailed with a copyright infringement suit. I am sure he wasn’t smart enough to get permission for the copies he sent out.
If there were more liberal arts graduates Lanslide LePage would be out of a job. Liberal arts creates creates people who are grounded in critical thinking and are able to analyze and come up with reasonable and dignified solutions to problems. I looked at the latest poll in the BDN which lists Landslide LePage disapproval at 54%. It might be a good idea to have a runoff whenever the candidates don’t capture at least 50.1% of the vote. What we have now is a person who took 36+ or – of the vote and is acting as if he has a mandate.
More frequently, than not, the facts to substantiate most of Paul LaPudge’s statements are missing or miss stated .
Since when does LePage care or understand about facts or statistics? Why start now?
Unfortunately all post secondary education has become a business. What ever happened to on the job training? If someone was willing to work hard and learn a job, the employer would train them to do the job they needed to have done. As the employee gained knowledge and expertise they were compensated accordingly. It was an incentive to learn and do a good job. There was hope for advancement. Not everyone learns from a book, professor or test. But many people can do good work without an advanced education.
He mailed a cartoon to HS principals??? Seriously? This is the most ridiculous method of attempted communication I think I’ve ever seen by an adult… let alone a Governor. Every time I think LePage can’t do anything more to surprise any of us anymore… he manages to do something so childish that it defies logic. LePage is the Governor for crying out loud! I expect MORE. Yes, I know he’s not polished but really… passing cartoon notes in school to make a point? Wow… I was really wrong when I said he can’t shock me with any more of his ridiculous behavior anymore… yes he can!
One of the most valuable courses The humble Farmer ever took was from Raymond Flagg who taught him how to weld. Knowing how to stick two pieces of metal together is an invaluable skill on any Maine farm. But luckily for humble, he didn’t decide to get rich as a welder because the fumes of molten steel are not all that conducive to longevity and even the hood doesn’t
fully protect your eyes.
At one time there was good money to be made putting asbestos into Bath-built ships, too.
With nine (9) years of a liberal arts college education in his curriculum vitae, humble is probably the most under remunerated person of anyone with his amount of education in the state.
So the LePage cartoon was right on the money as far as The humble Farmer is concerned. A good education does not necessarily enable you to trade in your pickup every 4 years. It does, however, make you wonder why some of your neighbors vote as they do.
Perhaps the most valuable thing one learns in college is that one shouldn’t believe everything one hears on the radio or on TV or reads in the newspaper — because the media is usually owned by your employer’s friends. They all have a vested interest in getting you to vote against your own economic interests.
Because you learn these and other interesting things in a liberal arts college, nowadays corporate America puts down college and instead encourages young men to make good money either as a soldier or a rude mechanical who will live happily with Titania forevermore in a rose-covered rented double-wide.
humble loved going to college. The other night he whispered in his wife’s ear that he wished he was 19 again.
She said, “Why, so you could go back to school?”
Robert Karl Skoglund
Keep up the great work Mr. LePage!!!!!!
Liberal art degree equates to an under water basket weaving degree…..
Johnny Carson, James Cameron, Stephen King, Sally Ride, Micheal Eisner, Susan Sarandon, Spielberg, Scorsese….
Joshua FRICKIN’ Chamberlain.
Underwater basket weavers all,eh?
hey, at least you’re good at making yourself look stupid. don’t need one ‘o them fancy book larnin’ degrees fer that.
Awwwww, you feel better now tuff guy…
And dont get so upset when someone makes fun of a useless degree, just because your parents are mad that they paid for your liberal art degree and you didnt amount to anything dont take it out on someone else buckarooo….
wow.your post says “I am one of those English majors not using his degree.”
just wondering: i do you think the people who have been employed by the people i listed and had their country saved by J. Chamberlain regard their educations as “useless”?
you really should quit posting, if your just going to TRY to be insulting, cause you’re not. you just seem stupid. why would anyone be derisive and scathing about education and getting smarter? that’s the definition of stoooopid isn’t it?
“Stevey_Dee- celebrating ignorance since birth” that should be your new personal creed.
if it ain’t already.
Stop it, you are boring…
Big English major, that says it all right there…
And you mother is calling you to bring your butt and your pocket protector up out of the basment, it is lunch time tough guy..
the fact that you come back to check for a reply betrays your lie that you’re bored.
nice work on spelling tough correctly this time, though.
see, you’re getting smarter just by TRYING to insult an English major.
ha, ha. just feel the weight of ignorance lifted from your sloping head! be free! fly with the wings of knowledge as your engine. correct spelling today; less idiocy tomorrow, baby steps Stevey, baby steps…
I get an email if someone replies.. You do crack me up..
Why doesn’t the long story focus on welders, the specific group cited in the cartoon?
People are missing something basic with regard to the technical education argument. The reason technical fields like welding pay so much is because it is so difficult to find anyone with the requisite skillset. If we nudge (or coerce, depending on how you look at it) more people toward developing these kinds of skills, the skills won’t be rare anymore, and those entering these fields will no longer be able to command such high wages, and such stability of employment.
don’t look now, but there are loads of welders working for plenty less than the figures i’m seeing tossed around, and a lot of them would probably think it’s funny that you call their employment stable.
i think the reason there are not a lot of welders is that it’s actually a pretty crummy job most of the time and new people to the field learn that quickly and move into other areas.
A person with a liberal arts degree would be afraid of breaking a finger nail, so we dont have to worry about them becoming a welder.
All I see is a lot of whining about a silly cartoon, time to move on people, nothing to see here. Maybe buttcheck and Super Petey from Searsport can team and use their useless degrees in liberal arts and do something for this Country… We do see they love to use 100 dollar words in a 5 dollar sentence, makes them feel big and important.. But really no one pays attention to the basement dwellers…
sticking up for ignorance sure makes a person pissy eh, Stevey Dee?
Actually I find it amusing….
Mitt Romney has a degree in English. Paul Ryan had a double major, economics and political science. Rush Limbaugh, of course, doesn’t have a degree in anything. Charlie Summers has a degree in leisure studies (no joke). Susan Collins has a degree in government. John Boehner has a degree in business. Mitch McConnell’s degree is in political science. I don’t know what Howie Carr majored in, but he is a member of Phi Beta Kappa, which is the liberal arts honor fraternity. Olympia Snowe has a degree in political science. Kevin Raye also has a degree in political science. Of course Paul LePage has a degree in business, but Stephen Bowen’s degree is in political science.
I wonder if Governor LePage shares his thoughts on a liberal arts education with his colleagues.