An expert in fire and rescue law said Wednesday the public should wait until an investigation into the death of skier David Morse is finished before rushing to judgment about his controversial case.
The words of caution by Curt Varone — a longtime firefighter, lawyer and author who is familiar with the Carrabassett Valley area — came on a day when the state medical examiner’s office released the official cause of death for Morse.
Mark Belserene, administrator of the medical examiner’s office, said Morse, 41, of Nova Scotia died of chest trauma, a diagnosis that doesn’t come as unexpected in the case. Belserene said chest trauma is generally defined as injuries to an individual’s ribs or the organs behind them, unlike the lower torso, which is an individual’s abdomen.
Morse hit a tree on the Lower Timberline Trail on Sugarloaf Mountain last Thursday afternoon, suffering severe injuries, although he was conscious and alert when Ski Patrol reached him. Morse’s widow, nurse practitioner Dana Morse, since has said emergency medical responders were slow to treat for internal bleeding — not initially listening to his chest or starting an IV — and the NorthStar ambulance driver left her on the side of the road on the way to the hospital after she asked to hold her dying husband’s hand.
Dana Morse’s account of what she called a “comedy of horrors” — f irst published by the Halifax-based newspaper The Chronicle Herald — triggered public intrigue and an internal investigation by Franklin Community Health Network, the group that owns the ambulance service and the Farmington hospital it was taking Morse to.
Ralph Johnson, chief information officer for the Franklin Community Health Network, and David Robie, executive director of NorthStar, have not returned calls or emails by the Bangor Daily News. Jill Gray, the network’s community relations manager, responded to an initial BDN email with a prepared statement Tuesday saying it “would be premature for us to respond to allegations reported by the press” until the group is finished with its internal probe.
Curt Varone is a former Providence, R.I., firefighter, a lawyer licensed to practice in Rhode Island and Maine, and author of two books about fire and rescue law. He is a legal columnist for Firehouse magazine and for his personal website, FireLawBlog.com, where he posted a column this week about the Morse case.
“We’ve got to get down to the facts about what happened,” Varone told the BDN in a Wednesday evening telephone interview. “Did the transporting EMS unit en route to a hospital leave a patient’s family member by the side of the road? If that did happen, what were the grounds? As a fire service leader, I’m struggling to come up with grounds to justify that. I’m not saying they didn’t have grounds, but we’d need to know what those grounds were.”
Varone said before the public knows what the hospital’s internal review finds, “it’s not helpful to speculate.” But he said it will be important for the hospital to release its findings openly, a step medical facilities are not often required to take.
“This is something that has captured the public’s attention, and the hospital, just like any other entity, has an obligation to tell the public, ‘This is what happened — we did an investigation and, you might not like what happened, but here are the results,’” Varone said.
Dana Morse told the BDN on Tuesday she believes the hospital probe will reveal that the details published in The Chronicle Herald story “are not even touching the surface.”
Franklin Community Health Network officials have said they first learned about Dana Morse’s complaints through calls from reporters.
Varone said the widow’s story leaves the hospital group and public facing many difficult questions.
“How could a couple of medics have gone through this ordeal — especially if it happened the way the widow said it happened — and not report it to their supervisors?” he said.
Hopefully the facts will come out. I cannot imagine the scene inside that ambulance, these people trying to save a life and deal with a hysterical woman also.
Don’t know if she was “hysterical” or not but even if she was, to leave her at the side of the road.
If she was interfering with the crew providing care I can see her being removed from the vehicle in the best interest of the patient. Hindsight is 20/20. Let’s see what else comes to light.
This was his wife. His life partner. Most probably his best friend.
How dare you describe her as “…a hysterical woman?” Shame on you.
May you never witness a dying loved one, let alone be ripped from her/his side. Shame on you.
If that was my husband, you better believe I’d be hysterical. I have held the hands of too many of my dying loved ones. Held the hand of my sister on the day they told her her sixteen year old son was killed in a car crash on an icy road. Shame on me? Sweetie, you need to get in touch with a grief councilor. If that woman wasn’t losing her mind just a little bit, then something is wrong.
I think what she was trying to tell you is that the term ‘hysterical woman’ is insulting due to the circumstances.
The wife in this case is a nurse practitioner with a decade working in an Intensive Care Unit. Nurse Practitioners have advanced degrees and act much in the same capacity as a doctor. It’s highly unlikely she was hysterical. If anything she realized that her husband was NOT receiving the necessary care to save his life and upon realizing he was going to die she requested to be allowed to get into the back of the ambulance to be with him when he died. This was not just some average citizen…she actually cares for trauma patients as a career.
Just to clear up some misinformation. In Maine a NP acts “much in the same capacity as a doctor”. They can practice independently of a physician after a period of time (2 years if I recall correctly under the supervision of a physician). They can write prescriptions, order test, etc… But that is in Maine, not every state extends the same range of care to NPs and I have no idea idea what range of care a NP can administer in Canada.
I believe mid-levels in Canada are afforded more leeway and independence then in the States. Mid-levels command lower salaries and are therefore an integral part of universal health care in Canada, by providing services for less than an MD. For the record, I have known dozens of mid-level practicioners and think very highly of them…We simply don’t know any facts here other than what the one side has offered. She may be a professional, but she is human and susceptible to the stress that witnessing your spouse in a life threatening situation would engender.
Could not agree with you more.
I for one like to rush to judgment .
A OUTSIDE investigation needs to be done. A hospital or ambulance service can NOT investigate thier own people Glad to see that those steps are being taken. Of course, if this lawyer is working for Northstar then he is just circling the wagons to protect the negligent
Thanks to the media the ambulance crew has already been found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Indeed.
You are so right.
As they should be! If this was your husband or wife or son or daughter you would be singing a differnt tune.
I’m not passing judgement on anything, I only want to hear all the facts first.
Found guilty because someone accuses them of something?! Why not wait until all the facts are in? If someone accused you of stealing a pile of money, you would want the opportunity to defend yourself, wouldn’t you? Maybe have the truth come out? I’m not saying any of this did not happen, but, geesh, let’s get the facts first!
And isn’t that a shame…the poor man hit a tree. How many other had died the very same way skiing? So now they are going to blame the EMT crew??? I think she most likely was out of control and understandably so. Who wouldn’t be? As a trained medical personnel she knew he most likely had no chance of survival. Very few do who hit a tree head on at a high speed! It was an accident!
Just from seeing how she has interacted with the media, I wouldn’ t have wanted her in my ambulance either. People like this are experts about everything and without knowing it actually interfere with the professionals doing their jobs.
Are you serious?? She is a nurse practitioner! She isnt a E.M.T. Wow you need to do some research!
With a couple of decades of trauma experience to boot.
not “trauma experience”.. ICU experience.. Patients are stabilized by EMTs, paramedics and the ER staff before ever going to the ICU to be cared for. You could easily work in an ICU for years without ever seeing an actual trauma
So should a trauma doctor do the work on his wife or kid of they come in?? No. As a matter of fact its against most hospital policies.
A person in an emergency can’t be objective and rationale with so much emotion. She describes in her own words acting hysterically throughout the incident.
While I don’t blame her for being hysterical, I know from first hand experience that is harmful to the overall mission of first responders. The way she was acting, she would have obstructed these EMT’s from doing their job safely.
This is why first responders do what they do. So you can have objective, professional, experienced and reasonable people in control of the situation.
I’m not arguing that the EMT’s were perfect. I don’t know. I wasn’t there and wouldn’t know what to do if I was. But I do know she wouldn’t be “assisting” any EMT’s in her emotional condition.
NO… She worked in an ICU?? Which is where a Patient is brought AFTER THEY ARE STABILIZED.. & THEY are in a PERFECT ENVIRONMENT… and the nurses Monitor them and only perform very minimal intervention procedures as needed…
OMG, you really have no clue do you?
Off hand I’d say no.
Oh yes, and she NEVER had trauma training right? And she probably never worked in an ER too right? Wrong. They don’t become ICU nurses by wiping butts.
How does being a nurse practitioner help her be objective, reasonable and rational during a personal emergency? Would her supervisor let her go in and work on her husband had be been brought into her hospital in this condition? Absolutely not. And why is that?
In an emergency like this, the EMT’s have their hands full to begin with. Add in this out of control, emotional WIFE and the EMT’s ability to do their jobs is greatly diminished.Who said she was an EMT? Not this guy. Wow, maybe you should read the post before you blow hot air.
So she should be left on the side of the road in the winter, in Maine, while the ambulance drives away?
It’s not like she was pushed out of a helicopter in the middle of the woods with no one around. She was at the Sugarloaf resort. Probably with friends. She drove there. She talks about chasing the ambulance all the way to the hospital (The police should address that) while screaming hysterically.
And again, in critical moments like this, the EMT’s have to running at 100%. Would an objective person prefer to find a ride to the hospital and give the patient the best chance of survival OR would an objective reasonable person insert themselves reducing the effectiveness of the EMT’s who are trying to do their job?
The answer is obvious when you are objective instead of emotional. It’s too bad the EMT’s had to make that decision for her.
The fact is they werent doing their job period!!! How are you not getting this?
Maybe I’m missing something. Please bring me up to speed if I am. Are you suggesting it was the EMT’s job to transport this woman to the hospital? If so, you are sadly mistaken. They are not taxi drivers. They are emergency workers. Their job is to do they best they can save the man’s life. They can’t do the best they can with a hysterical woman on board and in the way.
I only have one question for you—-were you there?
She was already in the vehicle. They put her out and left her. I am objective and unemotional and if that had been my wife in that ambulance they would want to hope I never found out who they were. I assure you I would be very emotional after the fact.
Her jumping in doesn’t mean she was welcome. Did they leave her in the parking lot of sugarloaf or did they leave her standing in the road halfway between the slopes and the hospital?
If they left her in the parking lot, I’d have no problem looking you in the eye and telling you that I was sorry you were upset but that’s what was best for the patient.
If she was left halfway, I’d say she has a right to be pissed.
Half a mile leads me to believe it was still on the Mountain..
I don’t think you read the article as closely as you say.
If you read the story in the Chronicle Herald (a Nova Scotia newspaper dated 13 Jan 2011),
you will see that she states the EMTs did not put in an IV or do his
blood pressure. They were more concerned with splinting his arm.
She was there with her husband and two teenaged children. With regard to chasing the ambulance, she did scream (according to the article) when the ambulance drive drove off, she then flagged down a car that took her back to the resort to get her own car and then she drove to the hospital. And, could you watch someone you love dying. Some of us may not know how to help or bring them back, she did. You mention the contention between her and the EMTs. I think there would be contention between me and the EMTs if I saw they were not doing basic medical procedures to help or assess the person I love . Wouldn’t you be a little “upset”?
I’m a little disconcerted with regard to your statement about watching EMTs “grab gun shot victims by the arms and legs and just throw them in the back of the ambulance” . The word “throw” suggests to me that the victim probably arrived at the hospital with more injuries than before he got on the ambulance. Let’s hope the tossing didn’t aggrivate any existing wounds.
I realize there are facts that may not be present in any of the stories published to date and that the investigation results have not been revealed yet, but you’ve already decided that the EMTs were right and she was wrong. I’m not saying either. The story is still developing and if this helps to make the EMTs jobs easier or if it rectifies some erros in procedure or gets funding for better training and equipment, that’s what needs to happen. And hopefully this nevers happens to anyone else.
It’s a tragedy that she lost her husband. It’s a tragedy that two young boys don’t have a dad anymore. It’s a tragedy that a small community in Nova Scotia lost a very active member. It’s a tragedy that his friends and family won’t be able to enjoy his company anymore. It’s a tragedy that his parents have to bury their son.
I’ve asked the question elsewhere and I’ll ask you now. Did the patient make it all the way to the hospital without an IV or having his blood pressure checked? Did they not do the IV when she asked or did they not do the IV at all? Were they waiting to stabilize him in other ways before starting these procedures? Were they too busy saving his life?
I’ve said it before. Subjective, personally and emotionally involved people, especially in emergencies rarely are helpful to the first responders than if they had just gotten out of the way. Having witnessed many of these situations, people often insert themselves when they need to let the professionals do their job.
As far as the gun shot victim, when you take a 12ga round in your mid-section, the paramedics aren’t worried about bumps and bruises. They aren’t thinking about aggravating the gaping hole in you, they are just trying to get you to the hospital as fast as they can. There was no stretchers, blood pressure cuffs or stethoscopes. No gauze or IV’s. Two paramedics literally grabbed him and threw him in the back. One barely had the door closed before a firemen showed up and drove them to the hospital. Your comment serves my point. There are times when the priority is to get people moving towards the hospital before starting IV’s etc. Clearly this man was in grave danger
For the record, I have not said the EMT’s were right. I said based on her conduct since the incident, “I wouldn’ t have wanted her in my ambulance either.”
People have had questions about why I feel that way and I have addressed them. Fortunately for you and them, I am not and never will be a paramedic or EMT. So it won’t matter.
I agree with your last paragraph 100% It’s too bad that skiing can be so dangerous. Those are the risks in life that we take.
Where does it say she was out of control and interfering? She asked them to do their jobs and start a I.V. and check blood pressure. Why was that such a big deal?
In the original article, she describes in detail her behavior and how much contention there was between her and the EMT’s.
Where in these articles does it say anything about the EMT’s NOT doing IV’s or checking blood pressure? Just because they didn’t do it EXACTLY when the hysterical woman wanted it, doesn’t mean they didn’t do it.I’ve watched very good paramedics grab gun shot victims by the arms and legs and just throw them in the back of the ambulance because they recognized that he needed the operating table five minutes ago, not getting his vital signs checked.Also, EMT’s consult with actual trauma Doc’s when dealing with these types of patients while enroute to the hospital. Did the EMT’s ignore them too? Should they ignore them so that they can listen to the wife who is emotionally taxed? Maybe they did both. If I’m the EMT, I’m going with the Doc.
Im completely convinced when all the details come out you see all the negligence on the EMTs part! Im not gonna keep going back and forth with you when neither one of us were there. Its all tragic no matter how you look at it
Well I am glad to see that you will keep an open mind on this.
Letting her ride in the ambulance was a courtesy in the first place and probably should not have been allowed. If she violated that courtesy by trying to tell the EMT’s what to do, See ya.
I would have to say that for the most part I agree with all you have said. Even though she is a NP doesn’t mean she knows more. And when it comes to loved ones being the ones treated all rationality usually goes out the window. I know this from first hand experience, I am a nurse but when my children are the injured ones I step back and let others do their job for the simple fact I feel more should be done because they are my children, not because it is actually needed. But regardless it is a sad tradgedy for one to endure and I wish the best to the family.
Having been an EMT-I years ago, I can’t think of a single, solitary reason for an ambulance crew to do what has been alleged. As an RN, I understand that, while there are some similarities from a medical stand-point, pre-hospital care is very, very different because they act with a much higher degree of autonomy than a nurse does. Having said that, it certainly sounds like this crew acted inappropriately, to say the least. I don’t think there is EVER justification to leave a patient’s family member on the side of the road, even if he or she is being a pain in the neck. If she was, the crew should have explained to her that, in order to do their work efficiently, they needed her to ride up front with the driver. Anybody who’s ever been in the back of an ambulance can verify that it’s a very cramped space in which to work, especially when a patient is critical. As to not starting an IV, they may not have been able to find a vein and NOTHING p**ses off an ER doc more than having a patient arrive with no useable IV sites because the ambulance crew has blown them all. I doubt that this woman, despite her years of nursing, ever had to start an IV in a jumping, swerving, stop-and-go, cramped box of a moving ambulance.
But if she’s a NP, she can practice independently, under the supervision of no one-which makes your comment of the ambulance crew being more autonomous than the nurse not true. I also think that there needs to be some explanation as to who the crew was. Just 2 EMT-Bs or was there an intermediate or medic there, too?
Practical Nurse as reported in the N.S. papers.. that is like an LPN here.. Less training than a Paramedic and can due far less.. Besides.. a Nurse Practitioner doesn’t Intubate… and unless they are Critical Care probably have very little experience managing an emergency with out the direct supervision of a Doctor telling them exactly what to do… Paramedics are far more skilled at Emergency Medicine.. Period.
NS papers are reporting her as being a Nurse Practitioner, same training as required as in the US, not a PN. Please, u really think a critical care NP with 10+ yrs of work experience and at least 6 yrs of education really trumps a 5 month EMT course, or maybe if FMH was shelling out the big bucks for the sugarloaf area, 2 yrs for a paramedic course??
Having been there myself, I know that people in sudden bereavement are often locked into denial and anger as a way to try to deflect the pain.
Until the facts come out…impossible to know.
Then why are YOU speculating?
What on earth is speculative about what I wrote?
Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote. It sounded like she may have done something wrong and we do not know that. Sorry if I misunderstood you.
If any wrong doins were done by E.M.T.s I think criminal charges are in order!
Im sure EMS’s concern was of the patient…….Im sure they assume on hope the family understands this and acts accordinly…..no need to have a hystercal family member on board when your trying to help some one…. they have to do what they need to do in the patients best interest….sorry if this persons feelings were hurt….Is is the familys feelings being hurt or thier loved ones life more important???????
BOTH are important and in this case, with her husband unconscious, SHE became his voice. So, leaving her on the side of the road was unprofessional and maybe even illegal.
Have you ever heard of medical legal concept of “implied consent”?
You bet I have…but it is not employed if the next of kin is standing by. If the next of kin is available, then decisions are deferred to him/her in most cases. This case would be one of them………..
In a message dated 1/19/2012 12:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:
(http://disqus.com/)
jd2008jd wrote, in response to kathydayrn:
Have you ever heard of medical legal concept of “implied consent”?
_Link to comment_ (http://disq.us/51×991)
Well there in is another “difference” between hospital based and field based medicine.
not necessarily…..
In a message dated 1/19/2012 1:49:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes:
(http://disqus.com/)
jd2008jd wrote, in response to kathydayrn:
Well there in is another “difference” between hospital based and field based medicine.
_Link to comment_ (http://disq.us/520xbp)
It would be employed… unless the wife was the power of attorney for the husband. If she was than I take this back.
and sorry if she was left to the side of the road….her only concern should be her loved on…and if she was going to be a distraction…she should have been left behind…..let the professinols do thier job!!!! I know emotions run high but don’t exacute the folks trying to help just cause you think you know more…..give it a break!!!
Ummmm…… Pretty sure she DOES know more as a nurse practitioner than the EMTs on the ambulance.
So when they left her there on the side of the road do u think they had the patients best interests in mind? Do u think they had all the facts from the unconscious pt. such as medical history, allergies, meds., past surgeries, injuries, etc.? What about next of kin consent? Apparently they didn’t even have her contact information! Yeah, sounds like a real professional organization they’re running up there at FCHN.
I fear you are grossly mistaken, unless the NP was trained in Emergency Medicine, not ICU, mind you. But emergency care….and with experience in an ambulance…50+ miles from a small hospital…in a snowstorm.
This whole situation was tragic. But many here are misinformed or ignorant as to what EMTs, medics, RNs, NPs or such can do and where they can do it.
Please, let the facts come out before you rush to judge.
NP’s do have more training and schooling than EMT’s but in the back of an ambulance EMS has more “push”. We have protocols that allow us to do certian skills depending on your EMT level. (yes we still do have to call for some things) but my point is If a nurse gets into the back of an ambulance they have to get doctors orders for anything they want to do/give (mostly talking about the advanced things and meds) where it might be something a EMT can do without having to call.
May you never witness a dying loved one, let alone be ripped from her/his side. Shame on you.
So when they left her there on the side of the road do u think they had the patients best interests in mind? Do u think they had all the facts from the unconscious pt. such as medical history, allergies, meds., past surgeries, injuries, etc.? What about next of kin consent? Apparently they didn’t even have her contact information! Yeah, sounds like a real professional organization they’re running up there at FCHN.
And you know this how?
Bottom line…the man was dying.. I think everyone knew this. Including his wife. He probably never should have been transported and just let die in peace with her at his side.
“So when they left her there on the side of the road do u think they had
the patients best interests in mind? Do u think they had all the facts
from the unconscious pt. such as medical history, allergies, meds., past
surgeries, injuries, etc.?
This was a trauma code and medical history doesn’t come into play in the same way as it would in a medical code. Allergies might come into play depending on medications but then that is why the have “Medic Alert” bracelets. Medications again this was a trauma code. Past surgeries and injuries? Seriously do you think that a broken ankle 10 years ago is pertinent to anything after hitting a tree?
~~~~~
“What about next of kin consent?””
Well he was conscious and gave his informed consent to someone to be treated at the clinic. When he loses consciousness, in the Medical Legal world he has given what is called “implied consent” which means they (the clinic, ambulance crew, hospital, etc) all the consent they needed to treat this man.
~~~~~
As people are beginning to suggest, let the investigation take its course. We only have one side of what happened at this point.
Past injuries are very impt when an unconscious pt arrives in an ED. If he has any metal in his body from previous, yes, broken bones, plates, screws, pacemaker, implants of any kind, etc, that would be very impt info to know before throwing someone in a MRI. You waste precious minutes getting a CT 1st if a MRI is indicated if someone w a family history is there to confirm or deny any knowledge of this.
People don’t always wear medic alert bracelets. Are u on any meds? Do u have allergys? Do u wear a bracelet? Fact.
Implied consent..u got me there! Not a big fan of the wife dumping though. No excuse. If that had been ur kid, I doubt u would be waiting for an investigation to take it’s course before u contacted a good attorney.
Yes, in the case of selecting between MR and CT knowing that implants, etc are MR safe is important but both MR and CT are anatomical exams and both will reveal much the same information but in different was. MR = radio waves and magnets, CT = radiation.
And I know people don’t wear Medic Alert items and the reason is people think “I don’t need them”. Well people don’t always know when they will need them or if someone that knows will be around to provide that information. So, if you have a condition that is critical to sustaining your life….WEAR ONE.
But the underlying fact in this tragic event is this. He went into Cardiac Arrest before he was loaded into the ambulance. The reason he went into Cardiac Arrest was due to the traumatic nature of his injuries and the resulting blood loss. Even in the best of circumstances the survival rate for Traumatic Cardiac Arrest is 0.5% and the conditions that day were far from ideal.
I wasn’t in the back of the ambulance so I don’t know what medical procedures were or were not done. I don’t know why the wife was left on the side of the road. There are lots of questions which need to be answered and I am sure they will be answered. But we have only one side of the story, the wife’s. And she is free to question and speak to what she saw or didn’t see. But the hospital and the ambulance crew is not free to talk publicly about it due to privacy laws.
This is the BDN’s somewhat late attempt at getting a side of the story from someone OTHER than the panic/grief stricken wife who ran to give the print media a story. The attorney is correct in being quizzical when questioning what circumstances surrounded the woman being expeled from the ambulance, but don’t pass judgment too quickly. Normally patient’s family members aren’t transported with the patient when they are “critically ill”. I’ve been playing armchair quarterback myself with this case, but can’t come to a reasonable conclusion without more information. This man was not a viable patient. Nearly ANY paramedic would quickly conclude that a traumatic arrest is virtually non-viable. It is (from the information provided) surprizing transport took place at all. (from the account initial resucitation attempts took place at the ski resort’s clinic). Please bear in mind, this isn’t Chicago Hope, ER or Baywatch. People who die from their traumatic injuries STAY dead. Everything else is Hollywood myth and laypublic misconception.
The biggest issue here is the silence from the hospital. The widow is controlling the conversation and continues to put the hospital/EMS service on the defensive; yet they answer with silence. It shouldn’t take too long to review the ambulance records and get a statement from those involved. Then a simple, direct answer publicly would stop the speculation. Failure to communicate is also part of the failure of leadership….FMH will take a long time to recover.
They are likely silenced by a national law callled HIPPA. It will protect you if your hospitilization becomes a media firestorm. Be patient and hopefully the truth will be told.
A NP is different from an EMT or a medic. A NP may have more education but the do not work in the field with the tools we do. A clinic is different then in the back of a truck. I will wait for the facts before I jump to judge, I have been in situations similar and it is always a woulda shoulda coulda situation. Folks hindsight is 20/20, no of us were there, we don’t know what happened.
For this woman to have flagged down a passerby on the side of the road (something you can’t really lie about because they could probably get that person to come forward later) get back to her car, and then make the 1 hour drive from Sugarloaf to the hospital in the middle of a snowstorm that even the ambulance was (apparently) unwilling to make, you need to stop calling her hysterical. By all accounts she was everything but, and I hope she sues NorthStar bankrupt and parks one of their old ambulances in her backyard, and uses it to store all her garden tools in the winter.
You hope that an ambulance service is sued to the point of bankruptcy? That’s a nice thought. I’m sure the other 25,000 people that NorthStar transports successfully every year would really appreciate their ambulance service being taken away. Plus, doesn’t the hospital own the ambulance service which means they would go bankrupt too? I’m very disappointed that someone hopes thousands of people lose medical care because they want a hospital to be sued over something that isn’t even known as fact yet.
Don’t make up numbers. They only do about 5,000 calls per year, and not all of them are transports. I’m sure Maine State EMS would replace them with an actual
Ambulance service, one that provides actual care to its patients and not just a ride to the hospital.
To the best of my knowledge Maine EMS does not hire or staff ambulance services, they administer the state EMS program. People whether paid or volunteer staff these services. Whatever the number of runs or people they serve, bankrupting the ambulance service will do nothing but leave a region unprotected. This type of call to action is a big contributing factor to why we have such a shortage of EMS personnel. Who wants to volunteer or work for peanuts with an ambulance service, and put in all that time and money with continued education knowing someone out there wants them to be sued into poverty?
I’m couldn’t say one way or another about what happened there at the scene or on the ride in because I wasn’t there. If the crew was negligent, take them to task not the entire region.
Maine EMS also licenses services and allows them to operate. If the people who work for these services (myself included, EMT-B) don’t want to be sued into poverty, then they shouldn’t do stupid stuff like leave a woman on the side of the road in a snow storm.
They may not have liked what she was telling them. It’s easy to become a para-god, believe you know what’s best, and ignore everyone around you. But if you’re completely unwilling to listen to someone who most likely knows more than you (EMTs and nurses don’t get along, each thinks the other is completely inept, and I’m guilty of it just as much as everyone else) then you deserve the storm that’s coming to you.
These EMTs were working under the umbrella of an insurance company anyway, so if they are sued, no one will actually be going bankrupt.
Sounds like you were there. Do tell, what happened?
I didn’t figure that EMTs eat their own without finding out the facts. But I guess that’s been happening where you work since 2006?
In the ambulance? Hell no. In quarters? Well, maybe you’re right, what do I know? I’m sure they did everything they could, and only left her standing on the side of the road in a snow storm because there were no other options. Stupid people do stupid things every day, but don’t take my word for it, we’ll let the official investigation tell you.
I’m sorry, so you are telling me you were in quarters at Carrabassett Valley that day? Good to know. I call BS.
I’ll agree with you on this point: Let’s both let the investigation play out and see what happens.
Yeah thats it! Sue the pants off them! Shut ’em down. They are all evil.
Two sides to every story and the truth is always in the middle.
Thanks for presenting a sane voice in this storm of controversy.
Have there been any reports as to what level the medics were licensed to, as in basic EMTs or advanced level such as Intermediate EMTs or Paramedics? The level of licensure makes a difference as to how they treat. Basic EMTs cannot start IVs, they cannot use a manual defibrillator, they cannot administer drugs, etc.
We don’t know who was staffing that ambulance, we don’t know what they did for treatment, we don’t know if the woman started out in the front of the ambulance out of sight of what was happening behind her, etc. Until all the facts are in, the comment page is all idle speculation, not facts.
HIPAA prevents both the ambulance personnel and the hospital from releasing any information. That is the law. It is designed to protect this man and you. Sit back and wait for facts before making a rush to judgement.
Regardless of what level of training this woman has, the last thing any ambulance crew is going to do is stop treatment and check her paperwork, and you would be surprised at how many people out there actually lie and say they are doctors or nurses and attempt to insert themselves into an accident scene.
This story seems to be getting the same type of hysteria and “witch hunt” mentality as when a law enforcement officer shoots someone. Everyone is a Monday morning quarterback with very polar attitudes about wrong or right. Lets let the investigation take its course, let the facts rise above opinion and lets get to the bottom of this. It is tragic that someone died, but lets see if protocol and appropriate care was given before a decision can be made about fault.
I work in an ED and family members will frequently ask if they can travel in the ambulance with their family member if we transfer them to another hospital. The decision is made based on two things. 1- Does the medic want a family member in the ambulance? Some do, some don’t. 2- Is the family member going to be cooperative and quiet, or are they going to make the medic’s job harder by being uncooperative and disruptive?
They may have thrown her out of the ambulance because she was inhibiting their ability to do their job. I have asked yelling family members to leave the room before when trying to treat their loved one. Having people argue with you and yell at you only makes the job much harder.
Hard to know what really happened, but these are a couple possibilities. It’ll be good to find out what really happened.
…….yeah….we never called the hospital to let them know we were on the way…..OH! he’s dead…..and we’ve just dumped his wife of in a blizzard in the middle of nowhere…..what do we do now????? quick….let’s get back to the ski resort clinic quick and dump him off….maybe we can cover this….
Do you always pass judgement without knowing all the facts or just one side of the story?
These are the facts, a young man is dead who was alert and talking to a rescue team that did a great job getting him off the mountain in 12 minutes! The main concern of the emergency response team and Ambulance driver should have been to get him stable and “rushed” to the hospital (ASAP) because of the possibility of unknown internal injuries! They did not do this!
One week ago today Maine was in the middle of a snow storm.
Sugarloaf Mountain to Franklin Memorial Hospital in Farmington on dry roads and in clear weather is 43.6 miles or 1 hour 4 minutes at the posted speed limit.
The best case scenario for Mr. Morse was to be stabilized as much as possible at the clinic and then to use LifeFlight. But two problems with using the LifeFlight option last Thursday, 1) they weren’t flying due to the weather conditions, and 2) Mr. Morse went into Cardiac Arrest prior to transport and LifeFlight will not transport someone in Cardiac Arrest.
So, the only option available was transport via ground ambulance. Now I don’t know what the road conditions were in the area but let’s assume that they were snow covered and slippery. So that means the 1 hour and 4 minute trip at the posted speed limit could actually be longer because of the road conditions. Ambulances just do not handle that well in snow and snow packed roads even with chains.
What Mr. Morse needed within the first hour was “bright lights and cold steel” (an operating room in a Trauma Center). But all the cards were stacked against him even before NorthStar arrived on scene.
It was snowing.
LifeFlight was grounded.
He had suffered severe chest trauma.
His transport time via ground ambulance was close to an hour.
He went into Cardiac Arrest as the result of a traumatic injury before he was loaded on the ambulance.
The survival rate for a Traumatic Cardiac Arrest is 0.5%
We can blame the NorthStar ambulance crew. We can blame the weather. We can blame the dry powder conditions that caught the edge of his ski. We can blame Maine DOT for not plowing and sanding enough.
We can blame anyone we all want to blame but sometimes no matter what we do as EMTs or RNs or MDs the patient just has to many injuries to survive. What Mr. Morse needed was for someone to drop a fully equipped Trauma Center OR next to the clinic at Sugarloaf…and even then, it might not have been enough.
I say that when she gave him CPR she might have made his internal injuries worse. He probably already had some broken ribs and she lunged one into his heart or artery
If the wife was so competent and all Mainers are just backwood hicks, why tell did she ever pick up the phone and call 911 when her husband hit a tree. Why didn’t she just FIX the problem and quietly go away.
She was not with her husband when he hit the tree… she saw what was unfolding at the clinic.
Skiing is like roulette. It’s always possible to lose. Sad thing when it does but it happens. I, personally will wait for Mr Belserene’s statement if one is coming from that office soon. He is a square shooter and will state the facts and the facts only.
I have worked with Dana for years in ICU as well as at our local hospital as nurse practioner. She has always been a competent and a highly skilled nurse. I have absolutly no doulbt this horrifying experence she portrays is true and the people involved in this trauma should be ashamed at the lack of knowledge and experience shown toward her loved one. Shame on you.You had experience personified at your finger tips and chose not to use her, only disgarding and dropping her off on the side of the road. Shame on you! They teach us in advanced life support and trauma to facillitate family presence. I would be appaulled and horrified if I was unable to spend the last few moments of the time with the love of my life before he passed. Shame on you. I hope further investigation and reprecussions recomendations come out of this so that no other loved one would have to die alone like David such a giving and loved individual of his community.
Can a NP from Canada practice in the US?…. Honest question