« Bison prepare for vaunted Georgia Southern option

High schoolers take a stand on Glenburn-Veazie-Orono budget cuts: Don’t cut our teachers »

Education commissioner seeks ideas from the public on how to evaluate teachers

By Christopher Cousins, BDN Staff

Posted Dec. 14, 2011, at 9:22 p.m.
Last modified Dec. 15, 2011, at 10:04 a.m.

Pat Wellenbach | AP

Education Commissioner Stephen Bowen

PORTLAND, Maine — The thorny subject of how the state should evaluate the progress of students, the effectiveness of teachers and the quality of oversight by public school administrators was at the forefront of public forums held Wednesday by Education Commissioner Stephen Bowen.

First with 11 students and then with approximately 40 educators, the intent of the forums was for Bowen to troll for ideas that the Department of Education can include in an application that will have vast ramifications for Maine: the state’s application for waivers from some of the provisions in the President George W. Bush-era No Child Left Behind Act. Under the Obama administration, the program is now called the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.

For the students, who hailed from several schools in the Portland area, the message to Bowen was clear: Their success correlates with the quality of engagement provided by their teachers and schools.

“If you have a good school, you want to go there,” said Zev Bliss, a sophomore at Casco Bay High School. “When I get up in the morning, I do want to go to Casco Bay.”

Earlier this year, Obama and U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan introduced the waiver process to help schools bypass some of No Child Left Behind’s strict provisions, including that every school bring 100 percent of students to proficiency in a variety of subject areas by 2014. Schools still will be held to most of the program’s requirements but the waiver process allows states to formulate their own ways of measuring success.

Among all the requirements Maine must meet, Bowen said the most difficult one is evaluating educators — and he said the federal government isn’t likely to make it any easier. Eleven other states already have filed their waiver applications and Bowen said he and others are keenly awaiting the U.S. Department of Education’s response so they know what sorts of solutions will be successful.

Among the ideas discussed by the students were surveying parents, letting students evaluate teachers and observing a teacher’s classroom process without his or her knowledge. Bowen, echoing a philosophy he has voiced many times in his tenure as the state’s top education official, said he favors tracking progress over simple achievement.

“It’s tough to hold a teacher responsible for getting every kid to the same point at the same time because kids are coming into the classroom from all over the place,” said Bowen. “Maybe we should be tracking their improvement.”

If there was anything the group of students appeared to agree on, it was their dislike for standardized tests such as the New England Common Assessment Program and the Scholastic Aptitude Test, both of which are given to every public school student and are used as measures under No Child Left Behind.

“No kid wants to take those,” said one of the students. “Those tests are horrible. I fall asleep in every one of them.”

When Bowen asked her how students — and by extension, teachers — should be evaluated, the student suggested some sort of end-of-year project, such as the capstone process used by some colleges and universities.

In a public forum held after Bowen’s talk with the students, he said it’s unlikely that education will move away from standardized testing anytime soon.

“We’ve got to figure out how to measure the effect that a teacher’s had,” he said. “We’ve struggled with this for years … The question is how do we exert pressure on the feds, who are locked into these statistics? If you can’t get a statistician to put a check mark on it, they’re not interested.”

Portland schools Superintendent James Morse urged Bowen to write provisions into the Elementary and Secondary Education Act waiver application that accommodate immigrants and students from various socioeconomic conditions.

“How in any logical world would anyone expect for a youngster who had no English to be able to pass a culturally formed assessment a few months later?” said Morse. “It defies logic.”

Molly Smith, an elementary school teacher in Yarmouth, told Bowen that standardized tests have become obsolete.

“We need our assessment tools to catch up with the way we’re teaching our kids,” said Smith. “It doesn’t make sense to them or us to have them do some wonderful project that has meaning and value … and then ask them to somehow pack that into a multiple choice test.”

Bowen, who intends to file the state’s waiver application by the end of February, said if a system of measuring student improvement over time is accepted by the federal government — as opposed to the current system of having students all strive for the same result — it will result in a major change in the way students, parents and schools look at themselves and each other.

“That growth model is really going to set some people back on their heels,” he said. “We’re going to see some low-performing schools that are all of a sudden going to rise up. And we’re going to have some high-achieving schools where people are going to say, what exactly are they achieving?”

Similar articles:

StillRelaxin

There’s nothing more annoying than a politician who devises a multitude of solutions to a problem all the while ignoring the root of the problem. In very large part today kids don’t care about learning. Why? Ask their parents, if you can find them. Now if this offends you then you are a parent. If not then you’re more in tune with your world than the state’s top education official.

Who does he think shows up at these events, top students and parents or average students and parents? Let me tell ya, it’s the top not the average who are the folks he really should be talking to. Slanted messages from the top won’t help solve the problem with the majority. But lets face it, Bowen doesn’t care what these people say either, he’s got his marching orders and the future is inevitable. It’s the teachers fault, it’s the union’s fault, it the administrators fault, etc. etc. etc. No worry, he’s got a plan to fix everything at the expense of everybody. Gotta love those government solutions!
Anonymous

The education commissioner has been an educator himself, and he certainly has the interests of the students in mind. He is not responsible for the lackadaisical attitude towards education over the last forty years, at least. Too many teachers and parents were willing to go along with the changes taking place; changes that took us far away from what had been taught–your basic reading, writing and arithmetic. Now sex ed, toleration, anti-bullying classes have been instituted, thus carrying out the agenda of those who want our children dumbed down.
And, to “still relaxing,” Family Planning, Planned Parenthood, NOW, and other anti-family organizations came out in full force in the 70′s to institute the contraception, abortion, homosexual/lesbian agendas in the communities and were successful in getting their classes relating to these in the school systems. That “education” has been more harmful to our young people than staying with the education basics in school. Absentee parents became more the norm, because it was a feel-good, do as you want mantra elicited by the liberal organizations mentioned.
StillRelaxin

Those additional classes you point to have come about for a very good reason. Schools now have to play an important role as absentee parents. Children of today are very much raising themselves and at times have only their instinctual urges upon which to make decisions. Sure it would be nice if educators could fixate on teaching the basics but if someone doesn’t do something to teach these children to think beyond their “urges” the repercussions would be immediate and severe.
Anonymous

1. Get the feds out of state education
2. Streamline the de-consolidation process
3. Return it to local control as well as local funding
Anonymous

It is impossible to get every kid to the same point at the same time. Students are individuals. Poverty plays a major role in how well a student can learn. It is unfair and destructive for teachers to be evaluated by assessments that are meant to measure students. Value added measures do not work. It is time to start treating teachers as professionals, and listen to what they have to say. The overemphasis on testing since the onset of NCLB has caused great damage to the public education system in this country. Who has lost? Students and teachers. Who has won? Private for-profit enterprises who are eager to cash-in regardless of if the students learn or not. The witch hunt against teachers and the teaching profession has to stop.
Anonymous

Brainstorming sessions on how to brainwash.
Anonymous

Everyone loves to blame everyone If a child doesn’t suceed it’s the teachers fault. Teacher’s blame the parent if the child isn’t disiplined. If you look at the stats , the students that do the best are the ones with the parent involvement. You have grandparents looking for things to do. Send them to the local elementary school get them involved. Most of these kids all they need is some one on one time. Go in, read to these kids have them read to you. Spend 30 mins a day working with students that have a problem in math. Simple this is all it takes. And this does work!
Anonymous

What a thoughtful, helpful suggestion, NOT.
Anonymous

Start with a better job of ensuring the teachers coming out of the colleges are educated. Kind of a sorry curriculum they are subjected to and hire a few more from out of state to get a less Maine-centered approach and a better balance in the curriculum. Then, track the progress from a known starting point for each teacher, not just the school. If a teacher changes schools, take the “achievement” with them.
Anonymous

Here’s how you start weeding out the teachers! A breathalizer and a random drug test. And elect school boards that don’t hide behind ” they have a union contract we can’t fire them!”
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

Bangor Tries real hard to get all kids to pass . The only way that is possible is to GAME the system as much as you can get away with. Look at Bangor highs test scores then look at the dropout rate it seems inversely preporsional . Not all kids are born with the same IQ and disadvantage kids tend to come into school a little behind. I remember the 3rd grade science fair At a Bangor school Seems some parents build better projects than other parents. The kids with Parents that had problems Just cried that day. Grades given make kids feel good about learning. But fail a kid because he has problem parents and you DESTROY The kids self efficacy Not all can can do as well. The system is broken to all kids should get a college degree but all kids should graduate HS. I think I saw TONY ROBINS fly in on his helicoptor most Teachers seems so positive I don’t think they are allowed to talk about the negative. The truth is if you are happy with the way thing Things are they will never Change. Dr. Webb is way overpaid(like 140k) and is doing a great job for the middle to upper class kids. That being said everything in life has its price. Its easy to point blame at parents. Is it the kids fault?
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

A good start
Anonymous

well said.. agree totally!!!
Anonymous

I thought Mr. Bowen and the rest of the LePage administration (what’s left of them after all the resignations) were elected because they had the answers.

Instead we have listening tours and complaint sessions and public forums that look suspiciously like reelection campaign stops at taxpayer expense.

How about getting back to Augusta and actually fixing something….anything.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

Not all parents can read or do math lol.
Anonymous

You propose that the single solution to all of our problems in education rests with
student motivation and parental involvement as if teachers are somehow only
passive agents in the process. Teachers have a central role to play in
education and it should not be minimized. You can fit teacher performance on a
bell curve with extremely poor and outstanding teachers as outliers on the
curve. We should endeavor to shift the curve to the right – that is produce
more effective teachers. Parents are important – no doubt, but so are teachers.
honey777

And the general public knows NOTHING about evaluating teachers.
Anonymous

How many permanent substitute teachers are in the system. Nationally, qualifications are negligible. The double whammy is that, as with the temp-to-perm worker farce, schools can use subs to avoid hiring qualified teachers to fill positions.

This is not to say that the right substitute teacher cannot have a significant, positive impact, perhaps more than the teachers beleaguered with maintaining school cultural norms and forms, but the business of permanent subs – too often plugged in for life, with no demands made that they have any degree or pursue additional education — is absurd.
Anonymous

It’s all a bunch of crap, all of it… Sorry if I hurt you’re feelings, I know hurt feelings is not PC… PC is the problem… Yes politics involvement in education… Why on Earth would anyone want to fix Education??? There is no money in that!!!! The Supers are only worried about how they look and the extremely large pensions.. It’s all just crap in order to establish a hierarchy… It is impossible for the Government to fix anything. Lets give the Teachers the right to fire the Supers, things would change quickly then… You are all chickens allowing the federal government to even have a say .. The Dept of education is just wrong, if you don’t believe me just look at how they have created the dumbing down of America through the Dept of Ed.. Imagine someone taking you’re money through taxes, Then telling you that in order to get some back you must obey their rules….Isn’t there a law against that???
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

Look at the economy today . Many more Disadvantaged Kids the system If test scored only drop a few point teacher are doing a Great job. Disadvantaged kids almost always seem to do poorly. No one seems to look at the truth. The society we live in has major problems and schools cant fix them all . That being said We must work as Hard as we can to do the right thing thier are so many great teachers , And a few poor ones that hide behind the union. We Let the teacher that care about kids care about kids Not just focus on test scores Teach the kids how the real world really works . Every good idea we have seems to produce negative results . Maybe Have real expectations . The best teacher i ever had were not ones that taught out of the book . It might spark a kids interest in learning latter in life . I know many college educated people that will not question what the are taught.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

Ya what you said
Anonymous

Agreed. It’s always about finding a way to measure the teacher, because we must be doing something wrong if a student isn’t learning. AND to have a STUDENT evaluate a teacher? Seriously??? Are you kidding me right now? They have no idea. How about starting in the homes of the students? Take a look at their home lives…take a measurement of that…government officials having a hard time evaluating the teachers…how will you evaluate the homes? THERE is where it begins. And in a lot of cases…where it ends.
Anonymous

PR we have 7 hours plus whatever we can do with them through sports, extra curricular…etc. Parents have the rest of the time. I think we are important as teachers, but it’s what they are doing at home that will build the foundations for a sound education.
Anonymous

Probably not, just like the general public knows nothing about evaluating dentists, managers of businesses or accountants. That’s the problem with education/coaching. Everyone knows how to do it better.
Anonymous

I don’t know how a person could teach high or drunk…I think the kids would kind of notice.
Anonymous

While it is impossible for all children to be at the same level of achievement we should look very hard at the progress a child has made, in reading especially’ over the course of the year. If the child does not make adequate progress than that particular teacher has not done an outstanding job. Achievement tells the story whether we like it or not. It is the responsibility of the teacher to make it work.
Anonymous

Kinda like they’ve learned from the master. President Obama
Anonymous

It’s simple – you just compare them to private school teachers of comparable grade level, class type and class size, at the closest pay scale comparison you can find. It’s no secret that private school teachers often produce far better results since they have to actually work hard to ensure job security and promotion and not just loaf around like a tenured gas-bag in the union-controlled public school system where “last-hired / first fired” rules the day no matter how good you are. The best schools in the country are all non-union private schools, and not just because of superior student / income background. Cases in the New Orleans area where several private schools popped up after hurricane Katrina showed that the typical low-income “kid from the neighborhood” was doing far better in those private schools than in the traditional crappy public schools, and for far less cost per student. So just compare the public teachers to private schools and you’ll probably be in for a rude awakening.
Anonymous

Well actually the LePage administration has already done far more and far greater things in terms of budget control and fiscal viability than Baldacci ever did in 8 years, which consisted mostly of putting himself in front of a camera with a contrived look of pained-compassion on his face while pining about needing to help the “less-fortunate” as part of his cliche democrat class-warfare scam to turn people against each other.
Anonymous

And get the protection-racket unions out with all their methods of making it impossible to fire a teacher, or promote a teacher who is superior in performance ahead of another teacher who has been there longer. Just follow the private school method which is based on reality like a private business, and not a progressive liberal wonderland of failure.
Anonymous

Educating has nothing to do with the economy today. The teachers can’t do it all, Parents have to take responsibility.
Anonymous

OK what part do the parents play in this ? Do they know if there kids have done there home work ? Is it the teachers fault that the home work is not done ??
Anonymous

Not every kid learns at the same rate it mite take a kids in 9th grade 2 years to learn stuff that takes another kids to learn in a week
Anonymous

I know a good teacher when I see one by the level of involvement of my child in the class and how much he talks about that teacher, his ability to talk about the subject matter and his grade at the end of the semester. A poor teacher is more difficult to discern from a parents perspective.
Anonymous

You can fire a teacher if you go by the right steps an thats a fact. A union rep was in here a year ago for teachers every one knew at that school that the teacher was bad so the school super went thru all the steps that was in the contract . The teacher did not improve so come the day to firer the teacher the super change his mind an did not fire the the teacher an the union said she could be fired because they went by the book to fire the teacher. So whos fault was it that the teacher was not fired it sure was not the unions fault it was the supers fault.
Anonymous

Now a kids may not learn because he / she is not in the right click at school that are students that are looked down apond they are bullies by kids that think they are better than others. You have kids that don’t dear step in if they do they would be made to suffer .
Anonymous

the first problem is that our schools are being mandated by the federal government. lets get rid of this first and biggest problem. the time being wasted in tring to comply with regulations that washington demands could be much better spent on real issues that effect students.

we all know that whenever the government gets involved, the cost goes up, and productivity goes down. get the government out of education. the state only needs to oversee that schools are educating students. tax money collected should be provided to parents as vouchers that the parent can then give to the school of their choice.

we do not need mandatory public run schools. private and charter schools could provide competition and creative education possibilities for students, reducing costs and providing various quality opportunities. this would also reduce the power of the teachers union, allowing for the dismissal of teachers that are no longer performing to expectation. (please don’t respond that I am against teachers)

it would not take long for schools that are providing the best educational service to be recognized for that quality, and under performing schools to go out of business.
Anonymous

this is way tooo simple of a conclusion to come to. the student may not progress for any number of reasons that the teacher may not have control over. think about it. one teacher with twenty or more students may not have the time or ability to personally coach every student on every subject. and adding in the mandated tests that waste time and dont portray the complete picture.

we need good teachers with creative ideas, that can address each students needs. the public warehouse option we now have is not adequate for every student.
Anonymous

i agree that the government cannot fix anything.
Anonymous

parents learn what they are taught, just like kids. looking at the history of government run schools and the decline in parenting i would have to conclude that these issues are related.
Anonymous

If you have evidence that students care less about learning than they did in the past, it would be good to show it to someone. It doesn’t seem very likely to me, but if you could show it I’d definitely be interested.

If students cared less about learning, wouldn’t you expect fewer of them to graduate and go to college now then they did in the past?
Anonymous

With that type of argument you’re assuming that the ability of the teacher is irrelevant to the student’s success. I don’t think that’s a very common approach to teaching, or we wouldn’t have requirements for education degrees or a hiring process for teachers.

If you have a class made up of a random sample of students with different combinations of attentive parents, levels of intellect, and desire to succeed, I think it’s pretty clear that the class with an attentive, skilled, engaging teacher will do better on average than the one with a poor teacher. All those other things will also be factors.

That’s why evaluating teachers is important in addition to having good parents and everything else.
Anonymous

It’s probably the teacher’s fault if significantly fewer kids in their class improve (or do their homework) than in other classes. I think that’s the idea imp1 is talking about. I think that would be an excellent system.
Anonymous

It sounds like you’re saying that the idea of evaluating the performance of teachers is not useful. That sounds ludicrous to me.

Is your alternative plan for education to have exclusively private education institutions? In that case I guess you’d have to explain how poor people will get fair access to education.

Either way I’d hope you would support a system in which teachers were evaluated for their skills.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

Yes but if you hold them back the risk of them dropping out goes up. If a kid is special ed and reads at 3rd grade level it is against Maine law to hold them back. A kid with a diploma reading at 6th grade level has a lot better chance in the real world than a kid with a GED reading at 10th grade level. Its not a perfect word accept it
Anonymous

You know that’s the exception to the rule though. There are plenty of union public school teachers who would not last 6 months in a private school, and it wouldn’t take “going through all the steps” to get rid of them, they would be gotten rid of the following Friday.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4UDTWMPKI35IE47KZU6WOMVFFY David

There are many more obstacles In the way of low income kids . Not having internet , Money for projects . Being ashamed to admit it , Not having the right cloths to fit in being bullied Do it need to go on . Its not an excuse I know but you don’t seem to understand some kids are not on a level playing field from the start
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DJHNJADSITO5PW2V6YT7I5IEPU W

Kids should be taking more, not fewer, standardized tests. And they should be administered by private companies. Testing is an essential part of the learning process. It is one of the best ways to cement knowledge. The more they take, the better. Teachers should also take standardized tests.

Competition is the best way to evaluate teachers. We need to privatize the whole system. Let students and parents choose their teachers. With growth and innovation, budget private schools can provide superior education at much lower cost. These cost savings will improve the economy, because taxes will be lower.
Anonymous

Sooo… Your misspelled barely intelligible rant is trying to imply that its not about more efficient / harsher teacher evaluations, it’s actually about bullies and kids who aren’t in the right clique and that this makes teachers look bad? Wow.
Anonymous

How do you know that school work is not effected by bulling were are you facts to prove it
Anonymous

Yes you are so right but people do not understand it
Anonymous

Tell me do privet school half to go by no child left behine ?? What the class size of privet school ? Do you know before long in Detroit the class size will be 40 to 50 kids they want to close schools . How can one teacher help 40 to 50 kids in class so by your thinking there would be a steady stream of teachers going in an going out . what would the kids learn with 19 diffrent teachers all the school year an thats just in one class.
Anonymous

You are right the kids act the same way as there parents do they have been tough this over many years at home.
Anonymous

I know because when you compare good schools vs bad it is all relative, and good schools with good teachers coming from roughly the same type of social culture and region will tend to have the same amount of bullying as bad schools with bad teachers. So whatever very small portion that is contributed to the schools/teachers rating, it’s sort of irrelevant when talking about trying to promote good teachers and get rid of bad teachers. This is all actually really obvious to anyone who knows anything about education, teachers, administration, and private schools vs public schools, but I don’t expect to change your mind since your writings seems to indicate a neanderthal level of comprehension, or else intoxication.
Anonymous

How many kids are in your son class ??
Anonymous

Are you 7 years old? Do you know how to string together a sentence or spell anything? The no child left behind thing is irrelevant since private schools are so good they never come close to the enforcement threshold of being affected by N.C.L.B. That, and the fact that there are some forward-thinking public schools in this country who have their heads on straight and they adopt all the right methods and enforcement to get the most out of their kids and teachers. So if one public school can do it, they all can, but they don’t because they are lazy, due mostly to unions, and lack of fear of ever losing any funding (taxes) or being fired. Private schools have to worry about this, and so they try harder, and they are thus better. I’m glad you mention Detroit, they are a prime example of completely unchecked liberal insanity run amok and lack of oversight with teachers that don’t care, and administrators who are there to make a career, not educate.
Anonymous

Why not put a camera in every class room an see what is going on it mite surprise you
Anonymous

no im 66
hey-I’m-your-man

mite – might

The surprise will be how students have become so rude and treat the teachers / Teachers Aids that work with them
hey-I’m-your-man

Having taught in numerous private schools, and in public scholl you are WRONG to say “It’s no secret that private school teachers often produce far better results since they have to actually work hard to ensure job security and promotion and not just loaf around like a tenured gas-bag in the union-controlled public school system where “last-hired / first fired” rules the day no matter how good you are. The best schools in the country are all non-union private schools, and not just because of superior student / income background. ”

Student background plays a huge role in the quality of the student and the marks they receive on the reportcard, and the involvement of the parents.

Also class size in a private school is typically smaller, students get along with each other better then lower income students.

I have taught in the richest of the richest private schools, the average income private schools, both upper and lower income public schools – and belive me you do not know what you are taking about!
StillRelaxin

Good questions. And since you asked politely I’ll respond.

Let me give you an opinion (For what it’s worth) on the second one first. I suspect slightly more kids go to some form of college these days. Mainly because some additional training is often necessary to gain employment in a country that pretty much has lost/given away most of its manufacturing jobs that used to require little or no training. These days no additional training often means no job. If you want to know the quality of students attending four year colleges/Technical colleges etc. then I’d suggest you ask a college professor (Which I am not) but have had enough college experiences and conversations with professors to tell you with great assurance that they are not impressed with the quality of students they are receiving and haven’t been for a very long time.

Do kids care less about education these days? I’d have to say (Based on all my years of experience working with kids) that “In general” the average child “At school” doesn’t care about much of anything other than having a good time with their peers. These good times often come at the expense of others (Peers as well as adults whom they come into contact with). Thus the sudden surge in popularity of Bullying Prevention Programs. Disrespect of adults in schools is often poorly handled with minimal consequences at school and more importantly at home.

If they can’t pass exams and they act like animals/thugs/clowns how do they manage to move on to the next grade level or graduate? What I often see at the elementary level is parents who flat out refuse to retain their child despite all recommendations by professionals to do so. Eventually as we know many more of them than we’d like to see don’t actually graduate, they drop out. How do those who don’t care not get kicked out and still manage to graduate? They often do get kicked out cyclically, each time staying at home and entertaining themselves (TV, video games, twitter, and Facebook) and come back like nothing has happened. Nice little vacation but not much of a consequence. Why not just toss the repeat offenders out of school permanently? Well THAT would certainly put a damper on their fun times with friends wouldn’t it. So why not do that? Answer, it’s expensive! If that child leaves the school the school/community/administrator is still responsible for finding and paying (At a cost of say 50-100K per student) for alternative schooling (Free public schooling ya know). This is good in that it prevents schools from tossing out poor students willy-nilly but keeping the real bad eggs in school brings down every student and every school’s performance. What’s the solution? Given what I‘ve presented there really currently isn’t a good alternative. Personally I’d like to see a cost and educationally effective tight run (Military style) alternative school set up where no kid would likely want to go but if sent to would really get a quality education. I’m thinking that if students knew that was a common next step for those who misbehave badly or fail due to “Choice/Attitude” then the quality of education for all and educational performance would take a sharp rise upwards.

One last point. I think schools began to decline sometime after WW2 when suddenly folks began thinking or in many cases realistically knew that the only way to survive or attain the American Dream was to have two incomes. I could go on and on but think it’s pretty obvious that once both parents began putting in a long hard day at work many of them had no energy left to perform the necessary parenting required to assure that their children had high moral values or high aspirations to become something. This is a situation that has only grown worse with fewer and fewer jobs available as well as less and less pay for those who do have jobs. Gotta stop as this response has grown longer than the story.
Anonymous

Put cameras in the classrooms so that the classes can be observed from afar. And, the teachers and students will know that they are being observed. I do believe that progression of a students’ abilities is the way to go, however, the standard should not be low. We should set up expectations from kindergarten on up. When my son was in school, I found the expectations of school administrators and teachers were a hinderance They had no expectations. And, for someone like my son, the comments were that she was intelligent enough that he could learn anywhere. However, what happened was the school let down all the students from the bottom to the top. I was forced to spend money to send my son to programs where his brain was stimulated so his love of learning remained intact.
Anonymous

Here’s some statistics on college attendance and highschool dropout rates going back about 30 years. As you can see, college attendance has risen dramatically (probably in part for the reasons you described). http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

Highschool dropout rates have dropped dramatically as well: http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16 Practically twice as many people aged 18-24 were without a diploma/GED in 1980 than compared to 2009. What you said about changes in the way students are kicked out of school seems relevant here- I wish I could see how it fits with that chart.

I just don’t think there’s any evidence that children care less about education than they did before. I also don’t think it matters if they only care because they ultimately want to have a job- that seems to be an excellent reason to invest in your education.

I like a lot of your comments on BDN, and I recognize that there are students out there who don’t care about school and that’s frustrating, but I really think there’s no good objective evidence that children 30 or 60 years ago felt any differently about school than they do now.

Thanks for your reply!
Anonymous

20-22, He has one class with 7 others.
StillRelaxin

Ok, “Caring” can be a difficult thing to measure and it can mean different things to different people. Kids really may not care “less” today…but 30-60 years ago they at least had to ACT and BEHAVE like they cared because when they didn’t there were real penalties to pay at school and all hell to pay once they got home. For most kids today that simple reality that you (Depending on your age or quality of parents) and I grew up with is completely foreign. I believe that the quality of education back then and under those conditions (For individuals as well as the whole) was vastly superior to what we see today simply by virtue of students being required to act and behave as socially appropriate humans interested in learning. As I noted above, there’s only so much a school can do even if it wanted. Top that off with parents who are either disconnected from parenting or acting as lawyers/defenders/little buddies to their children and what do you get? The state of modern public school education.

Still don’t believe me? You can find out for yourself. Every school I know of is looking for substitute teachers. Sure its not the best way to judge how hard students care about learning but it’s certainly better than standing outside of a school and hoping that things are just like they used to be in the good old days when there was only one or two Eddy Haskells in school. Give it a try we need all the help you can give and we’ll pay ya to learn the truth. What a deal!

Education

Previous story:

Next story:

Education commissioner seeks ideas from the public on how to evaluate teachers

Similar articles:

Marketplace News

Marketplace

Marketplace Coupons

BDN Blogs

Bennett There Done That

Seth and the City

Wicki Biz

Bangor Daily News

About Us

Subscribe

Advertising

On Facebook

On Twitter