Guidelines for posting on bangordailynews.com

The Bangor Daily News encourages comments about stories, but you must follow our terms of service.

In brief:

1. Keep it civil and stay on topic
2. No vulgarity, racial slurs, name-calling or personal attacks.
3. People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked.

The primary rule here is pretty simple: Treat others with the same respect you'd want for yourself. Here are some guidelines (see more):

It should be noted this is not a comprehensive list.

• Don't insult one another or the subjects of BDN stories. You may be ticked off at what someone did or said, but you can explain that without resorting to name-calling or obscenity. Remember that young people are on this site too.
• That nasty line that makes your buddies go "haw, haw"? You're better than that.
• Comments should be your own work, not copied and pasted from elsewhere, though brief quoted passages to make your point are fine. And please don't use all capital letters. There's no need to shout.
• Stay focused on the issue in the article. Off-topic posts will be deleted.
• This isn't a forum to chat about your personal life.
• Some ideas — the fate of the earth, abortion, gun control, the nature of God — aren't going to be resolved in a reader forum, so no need to get frustrated if others don't see your point of view. State your position once and leave it at that.
• If you mouse over each comment you will see a "Flag" button. Please use it if you feel comments on the site are out of line. Quite often, we won't see a comment until it's reported.
• Questions about why a comment was — or wasn't — deleted? E-mail us at web@bangordailynews.com and let us know your username and where you posted or saw the comment.

That's about it: Stick to writing about the stories; be civil; be kind; enlighten your neighbors. And we'll keep moderating posts to try to ensure everyone meets those standards.

• Anonymous

  Because the tazer can fail and he was being faced with a deadly force….BDN…Shame on you for ruining this young officer. You are responsible!

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G6OSP5KK3OHTEHY3VYXONGPUIM MiaH

  WOW!!! Could of used a taser? Or maybe even could of fired off 1 round? Or maybe 2 rounds? 4 Rounds seems a little excessive! Why would they have a person on duty that hasnt recieved the proper training? He lacked the 18 weeks of training but still was issued a firearm and given the ok to deal with the public. Sad story!

• http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001043479861 Amy Daley

  Hmm.  Something isn’t ringing quite right about this story.  BDN, I think that you need to get more information before you print stories like this.  First, there are more people who will be affected by this story – including the officer’s family, the victim’s family, the officer involved, and also ALL disabled veterans in Maine. 

  As I read this, I saw an inexperienced officer who may have overreacted, but I do not know what provoked this fellow.  Was the officer power hungry and on an ego trip, or was he provoked by this person.  Why would a person just “attack” an officer?  Then again, why did the officer use deadly force without first exhausting the “least amount of force” mandate?  I have trained state troopers, correctional officers, and sheriff’s deputies, and none of them would willingly pull a gun without trying to utilize other methods first.

  Finally, given that I taught martial arts and CQC for years, I have taught my people to defend against knife attacks.  This is standard training for ALL law enforcement.  Why did this officer deviate from such training?  As I said, there is much that has been left out from this story.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G6OSP5KK3OHTEHY3VYXONGPUIM MiaH

  Are you out of your mind??? He didnt have the proper training in the first place!! Now your gonna blame BDN? Unreal!! 

• Anonymous

  Well there washingtoncntyboy we agree on something! Its too bad this young man lost his life but he chose to take out a knife..The officer that did this will relive that moment every day of his life and BDN is making sure of that!!!Leave this poor man alone before another life gets destroyed!!!!

• Anonymous

  Yes, caught on to that very quickly and very glad to know it was sarcasm.

• katrina berry

  its like this. you guys dont work for the damn newspaper anyways….so did you print the story? no. did you witness the incodent? no.  so dont blame the newspaper for simply writing a story. in fact if you were faced with someone coming at you with a knife you would KILL  him/her? as opposed to simply disarm them? sounds like you need to stop and think before you write something so impersonal …ONLINE. the bangor daily news is a dignified paper and if it wasnt we would be reading the crap ^^ and opinions other people write…….not just the facts without a bias behind it just because you think your opinion matters….ONLINE..

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  You have no clue how often a taser does not work. My winter coat will stop the taser darts with ease and hence it will have zero effect on me.

  Four rounds is in no way excessive, at all and you have no clue about his prior training. He had to have some sort of training to react as quickly as he did.

  I’m sorry the man is dead but the Deputy did the proper thing.  

• Anonymous

  How does a sworn officer get to carry deadly weapons without exstensive law enforcment training? That seems very wrong.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  We know nothing about his previous sort of expereince or lack of it but if you have done all you say you should know he had to have some sort of training when it comes to firearms.

  An inexperienced person does not simply draw, get on target and then hit their intended target within seconds when someone is coming at them with a knife.

  This Deputy has had some sort of training and hopefully we will learn that soon.

• Anonymous

   How dare you try for one second to second guess the officer in this situation? I cannot believe that if you have trained officers that you would use the phrase “Then again, why did the officer use deadly force without first exhausting the “least amount of force” mandate?” The only mandate in a situation such as this is that the officer goes home at the end of his shift. The CQC edged weapon defense is to create distance which enables an officer to deploy his weapon. If in fact you are actually a trainer you better than anyone should know how quickly these situations transpire. I hope that in the future that any agency that would even consider you as a trainer will have second thoughts after such a statement.

• Anonymous

  I dont think any of us were there . we dont know if he came at the cop or was just standing there with the knife i would have chose the taser first if it was me . if he had a gun as soon as i saw it i would shoot him. i think an inexperienced cop made a  bad choice . the fact is none of us were there. and by the way guns can jam whats the next step?

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  Can you edit your comment and remove all the exclamations.

  Edit: Thanks :)

• Anonymous

  This Officer had at least the 100 hour coarse which involves firearms training. Before you people shoot your mouths off find out the facts first. Officers are trained that if deadly force is needed you shoot to kill. It is very unfortunate that this young man felt he had to pull a knife on a armed Officer.. Obviously he needed help!!!!!

• Anonymous

  To answer your first question. Yes I would KILL someone/anyone who came at me with a knife AND I feared for my life. And to your statement “simply disarm” them….if my “Bruce Lee” moves are available then I guess I would but not likely. You are too movified!!

• Anonymous

  Umm, the Law Enforcement Pre-Service training or 100 hour course as you are calling it does not include firearms training.  None the less this officer made the right decision.  He was faced with deadly force and responded with deadly force to stop the threat.  

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A6OBUSRMN2B27CVH34G5PTTS4U Delores Haze

  The BDN should feel no shame. The article places no blame for the incident and it makes no judgment against the officer. It states the facts as reported by the officer’s department. It is you, washingtoncntyboy, who is inferring blame.

• Anonymous

  This is another notch on the belt of the war mongers who lead this country into war time and time again. These vets have seen, and likely done, terrible things to other human beings as part of being an army of aggressors. They are taught to see “the enemy” as less than human and when they come back home, they are left with the nightmares of what they have seen, heard, and done. This poor kid was another casualty of unending war and, in the end, so was the cop who over-reacted and all the family members of both people.  Lesson one: don’t put inadequately trained cops in potentially dangerous situations; lesson two: bring our soldiers home, give them the medical and psychological help they need, and stop sacrificing our young people to this nation’s thirst for power and oil.

• Anonymous

  A knife can be just as deadly, just as fast as a gun.  Do a search of the 21 foot rule for edged weapons.  

• Anonymous

  I have been trained how to protect myself against knife attacks. It’s  called two in body and one in the head. I think the cop made wise decision in the amount of time he had to think about it. Remember hindsight is 20-20.

• Anonymous

  :)

• Anonymous

  I hope you really dont believe that?

• Anonymous

  Because people like you wont pay for officers sooo they have part time officers…until they can get in

• Anonymous

  So a rookie who has not completed mandatory police training is allowed to carry a fire arm while on duty? Seems like the officer vetting process needs to be revised.

• Anonymous

  Just like a citizen can carry a gun because he wants to. Shame that the well trained Ranger was killed by a “untrained” officer. Fact is, he brought a knife to gun fight….

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A6OBUSRMN2B27CVH34G5PTTS4U Delores Haze

  Do you really believe that BDN should not publish a word about a shooting death until it has more information? Sorry, you’re wrong. This is a public matter, and the BDN must report whatever it has at the time of publication. It must then, as I am sure it will, continue to file reports as new information becomes apparent.

  What would you think if you knew that there had been a shooting involving a police officer, yet there was no report in your local newspaper for days? Or weeks? Or months? It will take that long to gather the information on this incident; that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be reported.

• Anonymous

  Tap…rack…bang…

• Anonymous

  I think he was referencing the tasers don’t always work comment. Guns also don’t always work.

• Anonymous

  I agree entirely. This is nothing but an attempt to stir the pot. This is a tragedy…pure and simple…but I am so glad this officer went home to his family at the end of the day. Thank you for doing your job.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A6OBUSRMN2B27CVH34G5PTTS4U Delores Haze

  I read judgment of the officer’s actions in this story, washingtoncntyboy.

• Anonymous

  your 100% right on this one …

• Anonymous

  agree…

• Anonymous

  Poor choice for a headline, really is…

• Anonymous

  I am not a police officer, but I’ve learned a bit about how Tazers work just the same.  They fire two darts that are connected back to the Tazer hand held unit, each by a thin wire.  The darts have to penetrate far enough to make electrical contact with the person.  The darts are easily blocked by heavy clothing.  Sometimes they fail to make proper contact even with light clothing.  All this adds up to it being far from a sure thing that the Tazer is going to stop the person in question.

  I think one of the problems is that the very name Tazer was intentionally designed to sound like phasor, the fictional weapon of Star Trek fame.  Now, maybe by the time we get to the 24th Century, we’ll have perfected electronic stun weaponry, but for now we haven’t done so, despite what some people might think who have watched too much TV and movies.

  I’m sincerely sorry Justin was killed.  I am doubly sickened that he came back from a needless war for oil and power, so messed up.

  But in no way can I blame Officer Rosie for using his service weapon against this guy either.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_A6OBUSRMN2B27CVH34G5PTTS4U Delores Haze

  Correction: I read NO judgment of the officer’s actions in this story.

• Anonymous

  BDN should be ashamed of the headline they used in this article.  How about just reporting the facts instead of spinning the story to make it look like the cop did something wrong?  Yeah. . .he didn’t use the TASER, and he didn’t use his baton, and he didn’t use his hands to defend himself.  He used deadly force because that’s what’s required when someone is attacking you with a knife!

  That headline was just a way to make it “seem” like the cop did the wrong thing. . .fact is, he did the only thing he could and he lived to tell about it.  I’m losing respect for the editors at BDN. . . .geesh!

• PaulNotBunyan

  If it turns out this officer had police training from the military or another law enforcement job, the story needs a big rewrite.

• Anonymous

  Where’s the knife?  All I see is his superiors saying they don’t know what kind of knife it was?  ” He said he did not know how big a knife or what kind of knife the veteran had. “  There would be no reason why the Chief would not have a copy of the incident report stating the type, size, length and width of knife.  Was there even a knife? Or did the wannabe without even his 100 hour training course, obviously NO firearms training, and must have flunked tazer training just THINK he saw a knife? LIKE they thought they saw a bullet fly by their head at Togus not so long ago.  And yea I’ve been married to a cop. So, telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about… would be about the same as believing this went down the way you’re being led to believe.

• Anonymous

  hellooooooooooooo! he has to have had some training, its just not being reported …..  they are reporting what he did not have… Maine Criminal Justice Academy.. it’s my understanding that they can only get that 18 week training when classes are on…i dont think they train one officer at a time, but till then im sure he has had classes, and gone to the shooting range and had scenarios to train with…give me a break people…

• Dan Troop

  Chief Peck might want to think about letting the AG’s office complete their investigation before selling more papers for the BDN. In this situation, less is more!!!

• Anonymous

  What a very poor headline

• Anonymous

  I’ve worked in the field of mental health for 5 years. I have been held by a person with multiple diagnosis by the throat with a pizza cutter to my throat. As healthcare workers, we would not be allowed to work in this field ever again if we used any kind of force at all. We must use only MANDT to gain a release. I have heard of others in our same company being held by knives.  Knives are to be locked up, but again, the clients watch closer then we do and get them away, it happens more when budget cuts happen or over a holiday, short staffed. If we used deadly force we would not only loose our jobs, but our rights to work with adults and children.  This POLICE OFFICER had a TAZER!!!!  We did NOT need a dead Vetran. That man MUST loose his BADGE, as I would LOOSE my priveledge to work with others. He has MORE training then I do and much bigger then me. Most of us girls are under 200lb. We manage, that officer should’ve. Its time the police has to follow the LAW TOO. MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS have  to follow the law, we aren’t even ALLOWED to bring PEPPER spray to work with us. If we did use it to save our own lives or that of a fellow staff, we would never have a job in the field again. We would be charged with abuse! Why does a trained officer get away with murder? Yet, Mental Health Residential care workers are asked to risk their lives daily with small pay and NO protection.

• Anonymous

  Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

• Anonymous

  I believe that BDN should have done a better job with the Headline….This  Headline con notates implications of wrong doing on the part of the officer….Especially on such a sensitive matter…
  Thank you

• Anonymous

  With all due respect I will attempt to answer your questions one at a time.

  “Why would a person just “attack” an officer?”

  Please keep in mind these are possibilities and are my opinions. 1) PTSD (as stated by his family), I have seen military vets flash back at the sound of a helicopter flying overhead. 2) Bipolar (as stated by his family), used to be called “manic depression” causes serious shifts in mood, energy, thinking, and behavior–from the highs of mania on one extreme, to the lows of depression on the other. 3) Suicide by Cop.
  ~~~~~
  “Then again, why did the officer use deadly force without first exhausting the “least amount of force” mandate?”

  If you have trained state troopers, correctional officers, and sheriff’s deputies as you say you have, then you should know that the “kill” circle of a person armed with a knife is 21 feet. Anyone  inside that circle is seconds away from death. If the person armed with a knife is outside the 21  foot kill circle then the officer has choices. If the person armed with a knife is inside the 21 foor kill circle then the officer has very limited choices and seconds to react.
  ~~~~~
  “Finally, given that I taught martial arts and CQC for years, I have taught my people to defend against knife attacks.  This is standard training for ALL law enforcement.”

  First, I refer you back to my statements above re: the 21 foot kill circle. That would be an issue one way (employ deadly force) or another (less than lethal force). Second, the amount of knife defense taught in a police academy vs. that received by the military is disproportionately in favor of the military trained. Third, if the person armed with a knife is trained Special Forces then officer is way behind the eight ball.
  ~~~~~
  “Why did this officer deviate from such training?”

  I honestly don’t know if he did or didn’t deviate from his training. I wasn’t there so I honestly don’t know.

• PaulNotBunyan

  This did not happen in a hospital ward, residential care facility, etc. so how can you make a meaningful comparison?

• Anonymous

  Amy,when it comes to your assertion that the officer deviated from training,  please don’t spout off on here as if you actually know what you’re talking about. Police are NOT trained to defend against knife attacks with empty hands – this is NOT standard. Police are trained to confront deadly force (knife attacks against them) with deadly force (their gun). To say that this is standard, frankly, reveals your ignorance.

  The officer responded to a call for help, with the intent to help. Instead, he was met by someone intent on committing suicide-by-cop. It is sad for the family of the suicidal man, the officer, and the officer’s family.  Unfortunately, more and more officers are faced with this daily.

• http://twitter.com/RobKellley Rob Kelley

  Amy,  All is fine and dandy in the dojo with the plastic “knife” training but I can promise you that in real life there isn’t a second chance.  As a former ranger myself I can promise you he wasn’t some white belt wannabe on the rubber mat.  That officer being confronted with an armed person inside his 21′ bubble got lucky that he made the right decision and made it home to his family.  I’m sad that the man died but I’m happier that the officers family got him home that night.  What happens on the street will totally override what happens on the training field.  no officer that I’ve ever known was happy to have to take a life and will have to live with the second guessing that will come forever.  Stop the armchair quarterbacking people. only two people know exactly how it went down and only one gets to tell the story.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  Well said.

• Anonymous

  There is a reason you feel the way you do. Take a deep breath, and say this. “BAAAAAAA!!

• Anonymous

  Wow, you need a raise!

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  I will type this out again.
   
  An inexperienced person does not simply draw, get on target and then hit their intended target within seconds when someone is coming at them with a knife.
   

• Anonymous

  katrina if I “were faced with someone coming at” me “with a knife you would KILL  him/her?”

  Answer, Yes.

• Anonymous

  Yes, well I work in residential care/mental health and have been attacked twice in just the past month.  In one of the two cases I had to hit back to be kept from choking to death.

  We’ve also had several mental health/social workers *killed* here in MA in the past few years.

  http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2011/01/revere_police_i.html
  http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/02/social_worker_i.html
  http://www.wbur.org/2011/09/27/mental-health-safety

  You say “we” manage, but I say the facts say otherwise.

  Personally, I think the pendulum has swung too far and against those who work in our field – so much so that I think a fair amount of all the passivity required of us that you point out is, frankly, ridiculous. To expect somebody, such as this police officer, to submit to some stranger he just met, seconds ago, on the street in the manner you and I are expected to, is completely unreasonable and dangerous.

  Not everybody is as squishy, soft, lefty, liberal as those who work in our business, thank goodness.

  I think, given the number of mental health workers that have been killed that I know of just off the top of my head, combined with the personal assaults I’ve recently suffered, I think you are too confident in your abilities to de-escalate clients and that you should consider yourself lucky that client you mentioned with the pizza cutter, didn’t hurt you worse.

  I’ve been in this business years longer than you and I know that sooner or later a client *will* do the unthinkable to me, regardless of all the crisis training I’ve been through. You are foolish to think it can’t happen to you because your training is so “good.”

• Anonymous

  Officer’s here chasing a suspect, who crashes and it becomes a high risk stop, meaning any officer training at this point is having their firearms available. Now I don’t know how many had a gun out and at the ready, but certainly they are more prepared for violence than someone going to a local PD and asking to speak to an officer. Oh, in this video, the officer got rushed and face slashed. Look at the distance.

  http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/4691040-Video-Suspect-lunges-at-Ind-cop-before-slashing-face/

  Also, you never use less than lethal weapons when confronted with a deadly weapon. If the less lethal fails, you’re “bleeped”.

• Anonymous

  You don’t know what training the officer had and to say it was inadequate is an opinion and nothing more. Even Military Police (Army and Marines), Security Police (Air Force) and Master at Arms (Navy and Coast Guard) trained veterans are required to go through the Maine Criminal Justice Academy.

• Anonymous

  Does not matter, he will still get away with murdering him.  Cops are grandfathered from geting in trouble with the law.  I know alot of people on here think  i despise cops but that is why

• Anonymous

  According to Peck, Rosie has been trained how to use the Taser that he was carrying with him. But Rosie had to make a split-second decision when Crowley-Smilek came toward him, the police chief added, of course, when the taser is on the side, does not make sense, but like i said cops get away with everything.  Wonder if Bangor is hiring, might just join so i can get away with murder too

• Anonymous

  It can’t fail unless he tries it……   He made the concious decisons not to use it…..he should be held accountable for his actions.   He obviously knew the training, he obviously knew whom he was dealing with…….   that’s unexcusable….   “he opted not to use the taser”…….that’s absurd and you all know it.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAYGNQF5OXBZLLJ6WTFGAAPIEU Seth

  Good for the cop!  He deserves to go home at night.  Action beats reaction and when someone is coming at you with a knife, especially a cop, what do they expect?  Clearly, this guy wanted to cop to kill him.

• Anonymous

  The tazer won’t fail…..or you will not know if it fails……unless you use it!!!      Shame on you….for blaming the  the BDN….shame on you for saying that they should not be reporting what’s being said,…and shame on you for not allowing this veteran and Army Ranger….to live.

  This man went through a hell of a lot of combat, preserving your’s and my freedom…..shame on you….for letting him die like this.

  You think that LEO have a right to kill, you think that, whatever the situation maybe, they have no choice. It’s quite obvious that there were choices that could have been made. Like run back inside the building…and get some help?. It’s not a matter of feet, he saw him coming…turn around and get back in the door… but no…..we have 4 shots.
  Go play with your bubble gun…. either that or we should give each cop a “Barney Fife, one bullet pistol”, cuz it ain’t working!

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

  I say he did the right thing. In a life and death moment you have to react without thinking based on training. He stopped the threat. This is the kind of LE I want keeping me safe.

• Anonymous

  I see no evidence that the officer deviated from his training.  In fact, from what I remember being taught when I went through the academy a knife attack is considered deadly force and the use of deadly force by an officer in the case of a knife attack is justified.  Furthermore, if you know anything about knife fighting you know that you WILL get cut.  Since 80% of fatalities from knife attacks occur from bleeding post-attack staying in the fight and trying to disarm an opponent  is foolish if there is any other option.  A Tazer is a poor an unreliable substitute for a firearm when someon is trying to kill you and going at it hand-to-hand is foolish.

• Anonymous

  The cop over-reacted?  If a deranged Army ranger was trying to kill me I’d shoot, too.  A Tazer often won’t penetrate a jacket and is no gaurantee that I’ll go home on my own two feet.

• Anonymous

  Umm, by the time the officer knows the Tazer failed, it will be TOO LATE to try anything else.

  You obviously have not been attacked by somebody else lately.

  (Yes, I *have* been.)

• Anonymous

  Rules of engagement for incidents involving lethal force.
  A)  The person has the means to inflict serious bodily injury or death.
  B)   The person is in range to use those means.
  C)   The person shows intent to use those means.

  If I have a weapon and I’m in range to use it and I show intent – the person I’m focused on with my weapon (does not have the right) has the responsibility to use leathal means to defend themselves.

  An assailant brandishing a knife and charging at a law enforcement officer should expect to die.  The officer doesn’t have the right to kill him….he has the responsibilty.  It really is that simple.

• Anonymous

  Letting him die like this?  This is what he wanted.  This was suicide by cop.  He knew the cops had the VERY SAME TRAINING that he did.  He knew that you don’t use “less lethal” force unless you have lethal cover.  This cop was all alone.  He wouldn’t have had time to “try” the taser and then still get his firearm out to save his own life.  Sheep.  All of you.

• Anonymous

  They, the cops, did know him……they did know that he was ptsd….they did know that his family was trying to help him…..shall I go on.  ??

  They did know that he had spent time overseas, and did know that he was depressed………..that does not account for 4.     FOUR gunshots…….and then standing over the body with your gun drawn…..      Nah,…..I’m not buying it.      This person who shot him isn’t or shouldn’t be holding a badge.

• Anonymous

  Officers are trained to use tasers.  He was not that close that he could not have tased him.  I hate to say it, but i have a feeling this officer will no longer be employed, or the city is just gonna be sued by his family

• Anonymous

  YOU DON”T BRING A TASER TO A KNIFE FIGHT

• Anonymous

  A trained, expierenced person would have quickly assessed the situation.  
  From what I understand, there is a considerable amount of space betwee the caller and the cop.  And expierenced?….wouldn’t they have asked for a name?…and then known who it was?.   And perhaps, knowing this person, make sure that there are backups or officer’s available?……It stinks of cops killing people because they are afraid of their job.

• Anonymous

  Well put Jd, but just remember please your gonna have certain commenter on here which i wont mention who but you know who they are, that think they know more.  I just wish they would join the force, since they know more than most people on here

• Anonymous

  No since of arguing with him or her they will flag your comment and it will get removed.  they did several of mine.  Bangor daily is giving favoritism to some commentors to get away with alot 

• Anonymous

  Wow now your blaming the Bangor daily your a great commentor, maybe you should just quit commeting if you hate how they report

• Anonymous

  Wrong he had plenty of time. Research tasers 

• Anonymous

  No but i believe it , because your defending officers again.  

• Anonymous

  rules of engagement?……….really?..      Sounds like military to me.    You cannot and I, as a voter, “will not approve of law enforcement acting as “soldiers” or any form of military services upon our population.”      ” Richard Nixon”    And….exactly how does the word ….”panic” fit into your little scenario?

• Anonymous

  Thank you Justin Crowley Smilek for fighting for my freedom.  
  I’m sorry we were unable to help you when you came back home.
  You deserve better.

• Anonymous

  It seems like, with some more training this could have been avoided.  I think you can probably shoot someone in the leg FOUR TIMES just as fast as you can shoot someone in the chest FOUR TIMES.  Or you could run back in the office and get some help. 

• Anonymous

  Apparently you were there and know how much time he had.  You apparently know the distance the attack started from and the speed at which the aggressor closed in on his victim.  Apparently you are so cold and calculated that you would be able to endure the “fight or flight” physiological reflex that kicks in AND have the fine motor skills required to transition from the taser to the handgun.  I’m sure that you are so trained and experienced that you would have also been able to place one shot in a manner which was effective disable the attacker without killing him.  Granted, Seal Team Six would have had difficulty doing this but I’m sure you would have been able to.

  Oh and, I have researched Tasers.  I know that they have a high failure rate.  Certainly high enough that no one would put their life on the line in the chance that it would fail.

• Anonymous

  Good edit, the exclamation marks were making you  look crazy ; )

• Anonymous

  “According to Peck, Rosie has been with the Farmington police force since June of this year and has not received training at the Maine Criminal Justice Academy in Vassalboro.”  
  So new…..not fully trained…So why was he sent outside alone. This officer will never be the same and I feel like it could have been avoided. 8(

• Anonymous

  Ya can’t tell if the tazer failed……….if you don’t use it!

• Anonymous

  Actually….this is what the Maine State Police Academy would have tought this young man had he been allowed to complete the training had before being assigned to the station.

• Anonymous

  very, very nice ..   My/ our point exactly.       good post.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  Learn to lay off the caps lock key. It only makes you seem a tad off yourself.

• Anonymous

  read it again.

• Anonymous

  This cop was not “all alone”…..he was in his office.    It’s not like he was on some desolate road making a traffic stop,  the guy called  for the sake of god!…He couldn’t get in the door, and they knew who it was.       A taser gun is no different than a service revolver…..you aim and shoot.  He wouldn’t have been carrying one if it was not operable.      

• Anonymous

  They did have the same training. Soldiers aren’t willing to die for the “Chance” that they might save a bad guys life.  They didn’t let him die like that.  He chose to. This is why he went there.  This is what he wanted.  He didn’t go to the hospital, he didn’t go to the supermarket.  He went to a police station where he knew there would be armed people with the training to use their weapons. 
  If someone with PTSD knocks on your door, are you going to answer it?  Of course you will.  No one would expect that this person would attack another person like he did.  If they thought that, you can safely say that there would be a lot more of them when the cops came out. 

  Tasers save lives, if you have time and opportunity.  I wasn’t there but I’d guess there was neither.  When one person threatens lethal force it must be met with lethal force, a taser would only come into place if there was time and lethal cover, meaning another office with a gun.

  Bangor cops have saved several lives this way, but they always had someone with a gun protecting the guy with the taser in the case of failure. 

  If it “don’t” work, you only have one option left.
  I didn’t really understand the rest of your questions so I won’t address them.

• Anonymous

  Nah, you just hate.  Either that or you had “today off”, and have a lot of time to stir the pot. 

• Anonymous

  Bull.  If you took any type of CQC you would automatically know that you always go one step up.  Threatened by fist, go for pepper spray.  Threatened with stick, go for tazer.  Threatened by object that can kill (Knife) go for a gun.  Why do you misrepresent yourself?  Probably to feel good. 

• Anonymous

  The tazer is not a replacement for lethal force. It ONLY is to be unholstered if there is a lethal back-up in case the instrument fails.

• Anonymous

  She hasn’t trained anyone but 10 year olds in the dojo. 

• Anonymous

  Thank goodness otherwise we would be living in a third world country like Mexico.  Now go back to the Occupy tent.

• Anonymous

  That would require work, something that would preclude your welfare check.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  And the Deputy did just that when a very disturbed man came at him with a knife. He very quickly assessed the situation and took the proper action to protect his life.

• Anonymous

  The rest of my quesion pertains to what was initially released.  The Farmington PD said that they have had “33 contacts” with this individual.   My point was, and with the obvious charges, all but two were probablly by him, or by his family or friends.   And I say this because…….he was calling them. I’ll bet that most of their contacts were via phone calls….perhaps, maybe (we don’t know) some in person interviews. I wouldn’t be suprised if they counted jail house converstions as “contacts”.

  There wasn’t really a question, ..more of an observation and the question stemmed from my trying to answer another post.     I’m sorry for the confusion.

• Anonymous

  And if he aimed for the 3 to 8 inch leg and missed while avoiding the 18 to 24 inch chest and died, you would be ok with that?

• Anonymous

  right on!!

• Anonymous

  Any day and twice on sunday I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 7.

• Anonymous

  I guess if he had missed he would have 3 more shots right : )

• Anonymous

  UNTRAINED officer!

• Anonymous

  If an assailant with a knife is within 28 feet and coming at you, it is unlikely that  you will be able to draw your weapon and fire to defend yourself before you get cut.  The fact that the officer was able to do so is fairly remarkable.  This has been studied by  law enforcement trainers many times.  An officer’s weapon is located on the dominant hand side of the body.  A taser is someplace else, wherever it fits on a duty belt, possibly on the non-dominant hand side. When threatened, an officer needs to react instinctively.  Given more time, he may have an opportunity to choose differently.  I work in law enforcement and spent 20 years in the military, with two tours of duty in Iraq.  I feel for Mr. Crowley-Smiley and what he went through in Afghanistan and wish that he received and/or accepted the help that he needed and deserved, but second guessing and accusing a cop for defending himself is way out of line and off base.

• Anonymous

  Why? I’m sure there have been people armed with knives that have been tasered before.

• Anonymous

  This officer might have said the same thing once….We don’t know how we will react until we are in the situation…8(

• Anonymous

  He must graduate the 100 hour course to be A POLICE OFFICER. Therefore, he wasn’t… which in my book makes it murder, and his superiors should be held as accessories to the murder.

• Anonymous

  Yea somehow I have the feeling a fake graduation certificate will appear courtesy of the AG Office!!

• Anonymous

  So he looked down the barrel and pretended it was a charging bear… and hunting season? Your scenerio doesn’t even hold enough water to baptize a baby!

• Anonymous

  So how far apart were the officer and the individual. Was it greater that 21 feet or less than 21 feet?

• Anonymous

  Really? And you base this on what? That he had not yet attended the MCJA? Was he trained as a police officer in the military? If he was he was “trained’ but would still be required to attend the MCJA to gain his state certification.Many question remain to be answered wouldn’t you agree?

• Anonymous

  Are you writing this on the bus, making your way to the camp out on Portland or Bangor? Lets see you stand 20 feet from a guy who is coming at you with a knife. what are you going to do?  hit him with your new sleeping bag? This new police officer did not get away with any thing, all he is going to get away from is his  family, friends, job and all the other things in life he loves as he works through the horror of killing someone.  Son you have no heart

• Anonymous

  I don’t think it matters if the cops not trained, right?

• Anonymous

  The 100 hour course and the 18 week MCJA course are not the same thing.

• Anonymous

  What???…..do you understand what you are saying?        According to you, he should have used the tazer first…..and then went to the “lethal backup”?…      In case the instrument fails?….really, let’s ask this officer how often he charged his tazer and how often he used it?       In case the instrument fails???……LOL….ok, you run with that.

• Anonymous

  Lollipopaddict you know this is under investigation and when something is under investigation specific information is never released. When was the last time the caliber of the weapon used or for that matter the type of weapon (long rifle, shotgun, revolver or semi-automatic handgun) was released within two days of a shooting?

• Anonymous

  Under the law, mental health workers are allowed to use lethal force against an imminent threat to their life. Mandt is but one of a number of national de-escalation/measured force restraint training companies. None are specified by law/regulation, only that such training in a form approved by JC/CMS is taught. All, including Mandt, would also allow self-defense in a life threatening situation. Obviously such measures should be avoided when possible, but there are cases where it cannot.

  I agree, we work under dangerous conditions sometimes (I am licensed personnel on a locked-down psychiatric unit), but there are times when company policies do not apply. Nor do such policies have a place on the street. When confronted with sudden lethal force, both law and common sense dictate a defensive use of lethal force. You shoot until the threat is neutralized and your aim point is center of mass to increase chances for a hit.

• Anonymous

  He had at least the 100 hour course. Aside from that, was he a military police officer in the service prior to joining Farmington?

• PaulNotBunyan

  I watched it twice to be sure. I notice that he was shot 7 times but died a few hours later. That’s different from what we usually see in the movies, isn’t it?

  If there’s no need to have a gun out to back up a taser, we would question the use of the taser at all. A cop working alone can’t have a gun in one hand and a taser in the other. That’s not a safe way to work. The critics here don’t understand some very basic rules.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  This is the last time I will ever respond to anything you post.

  You lack such a huge clue it is not funny. You do not even understand the difference between a taser and a firearm.

  A firearm will penetrate most thick clothing, a taser will not and you have no clue if your taser or sidearm is going to function when you need it to.

  Tasers do fail as do firearms. I have had one of my Glocks jam during training. Was I pleased that it happened? Not at all, but it does happen.

  You don’t just aim and shoot but keep thinking it works that way.

  Have a good life.

• Anonymous

  The new officers do get training before they can carry a weapon, write a ticket, hand cuff a person, they just have not taken the complete course at the acamedy, buy they must do it within one year of being hired. You would be amazed at the number of “part time” officers who only have what is called the “100 hour course”, they work part time only, and there are a ton of them out there protecting you each day!

• Anonymous

  It doesn’t sound like it. But if he didn’t have the training he needed, maybe he should of went back inside and got help?

• PaulNotBunyan

  You wish. The reporter should have asked and he should have included any answer in his story, even if it’s a “no comment”. Unless an update to the story provides that, we have a story with a big hole in it. It’s a donut story.

• Anonymous

  also known as “suicide by cop”.

• Anonymous

   Exactly.

• Anonymous

  He is required to have at a minimum the 100-hour course. There is no getting around that requirement.

  As far as any prior military service. That was offered as an opinion only and may or may not be reported by the Chief.

• Anonymous

  gotcha……….

• Anonymous

  good post……but I feel, not that I know,…but I think that given this young man’s history, the manner in which this altercation took place, where it was and how hard his parents tried…I don’t think that training wasn’t the residual consequence……..it was panic and fear.

• Anonymous

  Ok……let’s find out what he was wearing?      shall we?    He reacted quickly allright…….he panicked….he lost the ball, lost his training, and was wearing kevlar…..with a door that was accessible to him, and with the knowledge as to who his was…       winter coat???   pffft.

• Anonymous

  Duh, da duh da ta…..     here I come to save the day!   I am …..Underdog…..  

  Then you don’t put people who aren’t trained in those positions…..until they are!

• Anonymous

  The only crime here is the lack of support and access to mental health care that our veterans face when they return from overseas.  Many get discharged with little disability pensions and then have a hard time finding work.  VA docs prescribe years of anti depressants but no real cures.  How do you cure PTSD anyway?  Remove memories? Seems like the DoD’s goal is to diagnose and discharge ASAP and then let the VA take over.  VA med bills will become a bigger and bigger part of the OIF and OEF bills.  Those bills get lost in the budget though because VA is not part of the DoD 

• Anonymous

  Bangor requires all officers to have completed the 18 week academy before they are out on the street.  Didn’t you fail, or ‘drop out’ of the academy already?

• Anonymous

  At a minimum he would have completed the 100-hour course. There is no getting around that requirement.

• Anonymous

  dkenzie “He was not that close that he could not have tased him.” How do you know that? Were you the across the street or in a tree somewhere?

• Anonymous

  Is it my understanding that this officer had no training yet was allowed to become a police officer? A human life was lost, his family is now suffering and coping to deal with their loss. I’m not putting blame on anyone at this point until all the facts are released. Obviously Smilek had some previous run-in’s with the police and they were aware of his mental capacity. It takes an equal amount of time to reach for a gun that it takes to reach for a taser, I feel the taser would have been a better choice for the officer, at least Smilek would still be alive today to be able to be treated for his disorder.  On the other hand, since the officer decided to pull his weapon, a better choice would have been to shoot Smilek in the hand or arm to make him drop the knife. A comment stated that there were 4 shots fired by the officer, my question is why 4 shots? If  Smilek was THAT close to the officer, how did the officer have enough time to fire off 4 shots?  Did this officer have any prior police experience? 

  I do believe in self defense to the full extent but when there’s time to fire 4 shots, it seems that there was enough time to make a decision as to what form of protection to the officer could have been used. I’m sure the officer is also very sorry for his actions that caused the loss of a human being. It’s very unfortunate that things like this happen. My condolences to the family of Smilek. 

• Anonymous

  Gosh, the word is ‘lose’ not ‘loose’.  It seems like 8 out of 10 people in America now say ‘loose’ when they mean ‘lose’.

• Anonymous

  We all take the hit when a trigger happy cop loses control.
  Tragic.

• Anonymous

  Dispicable reporting and headline.  A young officer doing his job is forced to face a life threatening encounter with a highly trained military vetran, Army Ranger.  I am sure that the Ranger’s training and experience far surpassed that of the police officer.  A threat of deadly force, a special forces trained vet – with an edged weapon surely meets this criteria, requires a response in kind.  To respond any other way with a lesser force response will mean that the officer will most likely fail, and this means that either the officer or an innocent third party dies or is seriously injured.  No police officer wants to have to kill anyone, most pray that this never happens, but when a situation like this occurs we all must rely on the officer to do his/her job, which may require deadly force.  My condolences to Mr. Crowley-Smilek, his dedication to our country and sacrafices should never be forgotten.  My sympathies to his family as they grieve his loss.  Our anger needs to be directed at the system that failed to provide Mr. Crowley-Smilek with access and treatment he needed.  Our thoughts and prayers also need to be with Officer Rosie, this incident will forever change his life.  Off. Rosie did what he was trained to do, he did what he was supposed to do, he was forced to react to a life threatening encounter by Mr. Crowley-Smilek’s actions.  Off. Rosie did his job, as unpleasant and scarey as that may be.
  For those who don’t know, TASERs don’t always work, TASERs are designed to be used in non-deadly force encounters.  If the TASER failed then the officer would never have time to use any other alternative to address the threat.  Studies have been conducted that show the minimum safe reactionary distance from an armed assailant w/ a knife is twenty one feet.  That basically means this is about three running steps for the person with the knife and for an officer to unholster, draw, and fire one round.  One round, twenty one feet.  Not great odds for the police.  And someone has the gall to suggest a TASER should have been used.  Why don’t we just suggest the officer train under Chuck Norris for six years and disarm him with a cresent kick.  Perhaps the critics and Monday morning quarterbacks should actually place themselves in a situation like this, respond the manner in which they suggest and see what their odds for survival are.  This officer did his job, he should be supported and not second guessed.  This officer, like others will put their lives at risk at a moments notice, their thanks is a modest salary and to be second guessed over decisions that are made in a fraction of a second, and they are left to live through the aftermath.  Officers also suffer from PTSD, and events like this without support contribute.  Shameful article.

• Anonymous

  I believe that it is safe to say that LEO are overworked and underpaid.      So who are we to judge the issue having not witnessed the actual event.    All we have to go by is what the media reports and that in and of itself is a difficult position to be in, to be neutral and objective, to report the truth and not insert opinion or speculation.     I’m sure that if it were possible, those involved would like a do-over, but life just doesnt work that way.     Mr. Justin Crowley-Smilek was a Veteran that obviously gave his all to the country which he served, and that we should be nothing but thankful for, to say the least.         The officer involved is in the same boat doing his duty daily with most likely very little thanks and appreciation from those he serves. Lets just remember that once a person draws a weapon for whatever cause ( be it war, citizen self defence or law enforcement ) their life will NEVER be the same.    This tradgedy Might have been able to be avoided had there been advanced warning, but sadly it was a no win situation.    The best we can hope for is that future similar events will possibly have a better outcome and if so then all parties affected by this one hopefully will be comforted in some way to know that a life wasn’t wasted all for naught.     My wish is that all affected will some day find peace of mind and forgiveness and try to make this life a better on in memory of one young man… Mr. Justin Crowley-Smilek.   R.I.P.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KRFCVCJNGB7CHUXUY4ZJWQRTQI Ole Grizz

  Well….anyway you put it….a veteran is dead….officer has been on the job training for 6 mos. and shoots 4 shots and kills a veteran with a knife. Not one in the knee, leg but kills him with four rounds. Did he have a right to use force…yes…but excessive force…not hardly. Anyway…..we can all bash it around that the officer should of did this or done that…..the veteran should of not came at him with a knife….but what it boils down is one veteran is dead and a 6 month officer on the job who hadn’t been trained at the academy yet….carrying a 9mm glock….and chief….your part of the blame….putting untrained officers in harms way….Sad that one man is dead and a young officer has to live with killing him before he even gets to go to the academy to learn how to deal with situations that he just found himself in….So sad….condolences to both of the familes….

• Anonymous

  Let he who does not use oil cast the first stone.

• Anonymous

  So did u shoot them?

• Anonymous

  Another victim of Bush’s war.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  Have you ever made an attempt to shot someone in the knee coming at you with a knife?

• Anonymous

  When someone comes at me with a KNIFE I don’t care what I know about their personal life, all I care about is saving mine.

• Anonymous

  The fact that you and the young Veteran are of the same breed (Rangers) gives you alot of credibility in this thread.  You are right about real life vs training in a nice padded room. This story has a crappy ending all the way around. I am also glad that the officer was able to make it home.

• Anonymous

  A few more points to consider (in response to some of the comments):
  Most people who desire help, express that desire by asking or requesting it.  When someone arms themselves with a weapon that can take a life, especially when in capable hands, seeks out the police, engages the police with the weapon….how can we assume that this is simply a request for help?  What if this man was intent on dying?  What if he was committed to achieving this goal?  How far would he be willing to take it to force the police to act?  What if he had intention of having a bodycount before he died?  How can the police read someone’s mind, look into thier heart to see what their true intention is?  The answer is that they can not, they can only react to the actions presented, that becomes the reality, not the “what ifs”.  Could the officer have turned away? YES.  Could the officer have had a knife plunged into his back as he tried to retreat? YES.  Could the officer have tried to use an alternative tool? YES.  He could have used his Taser, it may have worked, it may not have.  Like I said earlier, using the Taser would have eliminated his option of using his firearm, there simply would not be enough time to do this.  Taser’s don’t always work, some subjects have been able to successfully attack police despite use of a Taser.  Taser’s were not designed for deadly force encounters.  He could have used a baton, a knife, his hands, his feet…and engaged in hand to hand combat with an Army Ranger.  The officer could have used other options, and those other options would have increased the probabilty that the officer is killed or seriously injured.  The officer chose the correct tool for a life threatening encounter, his firearm, any other choice would have been negligent.  This man sought out the police and engaged the police with a weapon, he brought the fight to the police, his actions dictated the response, his actions eliminated the other options, he – by virtue of his actions- is responsible for creating this situation that forced an officer to use a gun.  This could have very easily been a mass casualty incident, with a body count of not just police officers but with civilians who come to a police station to conduct business.  Had the officer not responded in kind but tried a Taser and failed, others would have been at risk, and if others were hurt because an officer failed to respond appropriately then everyone would be screaming about that.  If a Taser, a big if, had been successful in neutralizing this situation then the officer would be hailed a hero and this expectation would be passed along to all police, they might as well not carry firearms and just use Tasers.  A threat of deadly force requires an in kind response, any other type of response means VICTIMS.  This is a brutal reality.  TV News reports that this man also suffered from Bi-Polar and Substance Abuse.  Again he hunted down the police, he engaged the police with a weapon, he forced this response.  This man was not in a rational state of mind and who knows how worse this would have been or what his intentions were.  The system failed him, not the officer.

• Anonymous

  “Because people like you won’t pay for officers?”  Really? Is there a special fund set up that only certain people pay into to pay for officers? I thought all our taxes were divided equally…

• Anonymous

  Well put!

• Anonymous

  You would not be saying that if you and your family had been right there in harms way and this officer had pulled the trigger to save you from harm! 

  It isn’t like on TV where the good guys use martial arts to get the knife from the assailant!  This is done in real time, with real lives threatened, under real stress.

  I feel so bad for both the Veteran’s family as well as the LEO who had to pull the trigger.  It isn’t something any officer ever wants to do and all of them dread the thought that maybe just maybe he or she will have to some day.

  We need to do more for these soldiers coming back from fighting for our rights!  It’s an outrage that so many slip through the cracks!  AND… I hope this LEO can recover from this experience.  It will alter his life completely!

• Anonymous

  They are trained to hit “Center Mass” that is the largest spot on the human body!  If he had missed and hit an innocent bystander, you all would be griping about that.

• Anonymous

  He was scheduled to go to the Criminal Justice Academy in Vassalboro in January????    Died of multiple gunshot wounds?    Determined that it is a homicide because he died of the result of someone shooting him?      No training…….hmmm.   Ok let’s give him a gun and a taser….he doesn’t know how to use either one as it relates to public safety.      smoooze up to that .

• Anonymous

  You need to use spell check.  It’s Taser, Lose and Veteran!  And you mental healthcare workers usually knowthat you are dealing with people with MENTAL ISSUES ahead of time! 

• Anonymous

  But the war veteran doesn’t.

• Anonymous

  Takes a weaponless woman to do a “man’s” job, eh Kev?  Strike a nerve did it? 

• Anonymous

  I didn’t see where she ever stated that LE shouldn’t carry weapons. I think we all agree that that would be ridiculous(or, I hope, anyway).  There is a time and place. 

• Anonymous

  Although you may have instructed martial arts and close quarters combat for years and have taught defenses against knife attacks, judging from your stated position it appears as though you lack a real world experience and perspective concerning this.
  These techniques are in fact last resort techniques when no other suitable options exist, mostly due to reactionary time and distance.  And the probabilies of getting cut or stabbed during this type of encounter, despite adept martial arts ability, is significant.  You will most likely be injured, hopfully the techniques work and a major artery or limb is not severed and incapictated, and this is a best case scenerio.  The reality is the human response under severe stress, the normal physiological responses to flight or fight.  We lose our ability for fine motor skills during combat.  The reality is why most of these moves do not work all that great because we have to rely on gross motor skills.  This is also why officers and soldiers are instructed on combat shooting in close quarters and why they aim at center mass rather than try to take  shots at arms or legs.  There is no standard law enforcement training anywhere in this country that would advocate attempting to use a hand to hand disarming technique in stead of a firearm when faced with a deadly threat from an edged weapon.  By advocating and teaching what you say you are you are doing a great disservice to anyone who will be faced with such a threat.  They will have a very unrealistic faith and expecation in their ability to successfully disarm an armed assailant and this will translate to tombstone courage and they will get hurt.  These techniques must be a last resort when no other option exists, when you have nothing to lose, and you have to be real and know that you probably will get hurt and will need to keep on fighting.  There are very few combat experts, police use of force experts, and martial arts experts that would agree with your position.  I wish you were right, life would be easier if this were true, but unfortunately that is just a dangerous mindset.

• Anonymous

  Although you may have instructed martial arts and close quarters combat for years and have taught defenses against knife attacks, judging from your stated position it appears as though you lack a real world experience and perspective concerning this.
  These techniques are in fact last resort techniques when no other suitable options exist, mostly due to reactionary time and distance.  And the probabilies of getting cut or stabbed during this type of encounter, despite adept martial arts ability, is significant.  You will most likely be injured, hopfully the techniques work and a major artery or limb is not severed and incapictated, and this is a best case scenerio.  The reality is the human response under severe stress, the normal physiological responses to flight or fight.  We lose our ability for fine motor skills during combat.  The reality is why most of these moves do not work all that great because we have to rely on gross motor skills.  This is also why officers and soldiers are instructed on combat shooting in close quarters and why they aim at center mass rather than try to take  shots at arms or legs.  There is no standard law enforcement training anywhere in this country that would advocate attempting to use a hand to hand disarming technique in stead of a firearm when faced with a deadly threat from an edged weapon.  By advocating and teaching what you say you are you are doing a great disservice to anyone who will be faced with such a threat.  They will have a very unrealistic faith and expecation in their ability to successfully disarm an armed assailant and this will translate to tombstone courage and they will get hurt.  These techniques must be a last resort when no other option exists, when you have nothing to lose, and you have to be real and know that you probably will get hurt and will need to keep on fighting.  There are very few combat experts, police use of force experts, and martial arts experts that would agree with your position.  I wish you were right, life would be easier if this were true, but unfortunately that is just a dangerous mindset.

• Anonymous

  http://www.houstonpress.com/2004-10-28/news/the-shocking-truth/

• Anonymous

  Is this post for real?  Speechless…….Doesn’t even make sense

• Anonymous

  BDN Till Trotter and editors should be ashamed by the tabloid headline and reporting.  Seems quite insensitive and irresponsible.

• Anonymous

  Excellent post, thank you. It’s posters like you who make threads like this as pleasant as they can be, considering the situation. No name calling, blame-games, CAP-calling, spell-policing, just sincerities, it’s been a pleasure. And it’s certainly easier to see someone else’s perspective when their not slinging hate around, toward other posters and both victims.

• Anonymous

  No, they didn’t have a weapon.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CCEBXV2XA64SUSFHHFYF4LO5MM Dolly

  Very well stated…!

• Anonymous

  It’s interesting that all the murdered mental health workers I referenced in my related post were “weaponless” women.  Sadly, it doesn’t sound like they did a “man’s” job at all ’cause they’re dead.

  It may be nice to think that a petite, unarmed woman can do what this male cop with a gun could not, but it also would be pure (liberal) fantasy.

• PaulNotBunyan

  I agree that it’s fantasy. It might be good material for a screenplay. I’m not sure if that would be sci-fi or horror.

• PaulNotBunyan

  I guess some people don’t understand the taser at all. The cop would have had to walk out the door with it drawn and ready to have a good chance in a situation like this. I really don’t want cops pointing a taser at me if I call them for help outside a police station or here at home. I don’t want to see them cruising the streets with taser in hand.

• Anonymous

  Maybe I’m way over tired, but is this a threat to police, criminals or pretty much anyone? You’re putting in writing, that if a police agency, for some reason, obtains a  night time warrant of your house, you’ll kill them? If I’m misunderstanding; my apologies.

• Anonymous

  Another veteran murdered by society

• Anonymous

  Why should the paper be ashamed for asking questions and providing answers to those questions?

• Anonymous

  Or shooting you.

• Anonymous

  You like everyone else that comments on the BDN, have no basis, training or experience to open your mouth reference this topic.  You’re wrong.

• Anonymous

  He thinks cops still carry “revolvers”

• Anonymous

  My condolences to the family of this unfortunate young veteran, and my sympathy to the young officer and his family.  It is becoming clearer as more information is released, that Mr Crowley -Smilek very well knew what he was risking by his actions, and proceeded regardless.  Perhaps the outcome was just what he intended, we will not know.  Perhaps the outcome might have been different if he had confronted a more experienced officer, perhaps not.  We will not ever know that either.   At any rate, what is done is done… A troubled young man is dead, and a young officer may have his career shattered or not, but nevertheless he will have to live with the fact that he has taken a life.  Before anyone jumps down my throat, I am NOT accusing the officer of anything, just stating the fact that this occurrence will have an impact on his life and on his career.

• Anonymous

  why would her career be shattered?  If anything is shattered it would be his soul like most officers who HAVE to take a life to save his own

• Anonymous

  I would sue for mental anquish and whatever else a lawyer would suggest. I agree…they all this board to slander…

• Anonymous

  I feel bad for this Vet and his family. He obviously had many problems, untreated. That said, I believe the officer in question acted correctly. Someone charge at him with a knife with the intent of causing harm or death. Tazers can be pulled out or completly ineffective on some people.  I would have reacted as same as the officer did. The really sad part is  that this Vet of war was not receiving proper treatment and care for his PTSD.

• Anonymous

  So the cop should run away with his tail between his leg? ummm? he has a duty to protect…yes that means stand and  fight the fight while the public can hide and scream like a girl…

• Anonymous

  I agree…he just wanted to try to calm the community down. He is not use to this typ of thing because he is a small time police chief. AG has more experience and thicker skin to be able to say “it is under investigation” . I am sure town politics played a part in his shooting off of the mouth. I will be very surprised if his department stands behind this young officer..

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FKTKHFPJKGUSNNTTQLMH4O3RQI paul

  you do not know that it was suicide by cop…. if you do .. then you have some explaining to do..

• Anonymous

  you have no clue!! He did have the 100 hour course…the 18 week is for full time officers only. You can be part time waiting for a slot to open up in the academy

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FKTKHFPJKGUSNNTTQLMH4O3RQI paul

  I agree….. the only argument that can be made is that he should not have been on this kind of duty without FULL training.. and the training isn’t so great as we see cops in full thuggery often… not saying in this case, this is an unusual event.. tragic on every level… preventable ? perhaps….. but it would have taken a condition that provided more information to the shooter BEFORE he engaged.  ….. so bottom line, the cops likely had little choice in the matter based on information available so far

• Anonymous

  The flaw with your theory appears to be this: If you GUESS WRONG, you are dead. That’s a big flaw.

• Anonymous

  You know, I think this forum really needs a DISlike button; you are beginning to irritate me.

• Anonymous

  “We The People” failed thie veteran not the police officer, what if the man had succeded in killing the officer what might he have done next, we probably would’ve ended up with a standoff, and more people hurt. It’s a tragic story, but not because of the actions of this officer he did his job, somebody else didn’t do there’s.

• Millicent

  question about tasers…if they have such a high failure rate, why are our police departments using them?

• Anonymous

  The BDN’s war on law enforcement continues. NO credible trainer would EVER instruct an officer to deploy a tazer when alone with someone threatening to kill/ gut/ maim you. 

• Anonymous

  Well said!

• Anonymous

  Im really glad that we can all sit here behind our computers and judge this officer for his actions.  Have any one of you been put in a situation like this?  I doubt it!  How do you know how you would react to someone coming at you with a knife?? YOU DONT!! So before you go blaming this officer, try to put yourself in his shoes!!!

• Anonymous

  Maine law allows officers to work full time for a year with a 100 hour certification course.  The officer performed exactly as he should have.

• Anonymous

  Cupcake Ninja,  Officers are trained to respond with one level higher force then presented them if it is necessary. 

  Chuck Norris might be able to deal with this unarmed in your fantasy land, but not mere mortals. 

  I garuntee you have never trained any law enforcement. You are setting people up to be killed.

  I could train someone in nuclear engineering too…….

• Anonymous

  We should all be thankful that anyone wants to be a law enforcement official in this day and age. They have had so much upheaval. I am sure that the last thing this officer wanted to do was shoot someone.  But not knowing what this man’s intent was, makes it a tough decision.  Condolences to the family.

• honey777

  Sorry, this guy was a danger to himself and others, if what has been reported in the BDN was accurate.  Someone who is bipolar, off his meds, and psychotic is capable of doing almost anything.  This isn’t just PTSD from the war.

• Anonymous

  I’ve known Officer Rosie  since we were both children. I can assure you all that Ryan would never willfully kill another human being.  By all accounts this situation is horrible, both families involved will have to live with it’s consequences for the rest of their lives.  As a side note, it is unfortunate that there is such a lack of post combat counseling services for returning troops.  I’ve seen returning veterans who are suffering  from PTSD- it’s painful for the veteran, his family and his friends.

• Anonymous

  Mike you say “I’m not putting blame on anyone at this point until all the facts are released” and then go on to question the officer only.
  ~~~~~
  “Obviously Smilek had some previous run-in’s with the police and they were aware of his mental capacity.”

  And the Chief has said as much and also stated that this officer had no prior interactions with Smilek.
  ~~~~~
  “It takes an equal amount of time to reach for a gun that it takes to
  reach for a taser, I feel the taser would have been a better choice for
  the officer, at least Smilek would still be alive today to be able to be
  treated for his disorder.”

  A knife is considered deadly force. An office would not employ less than deadly force when faced with deadly force.
  ~~~~~
  “On the other hand, since the officer decided to pull his weapon, a
  better choice would have been to shoot Smilek in the hand or arm to make
  him drop the knife.”

  A real life armed encounter is nothing like the Hollywood version of an armed encounter.
  ~~~~~
  “A comment stated that there were 4 shots fired by the officer, my
  question is why 4 shots? If  Smilek was THAT close to the officer, how
  did the officer have enough time to fire off 4 shots?”

  The original article stated a witness heard one “pop” and then three more “pops”. Well maybe the first shot didn’t stop him moving (and yes I am assuming he was moving towards the officer) so the officer fired three more times. I can “pop” off 3-4 shots from a semi-automatic handgun in 2-3 seconds. That isn’t long but is an eternity for the officer.
  ~~~~~
  “Did this officer have any prior police experience?”

  Since he was waiting for the next 18 week class at the MCJA I would say that he did not have any experience in Maine. What prior experience he ad elsewhere is not clear from the article.
  ~~~~~
  “I do believe in self defense to the full extent but when there’s time to
  fire 4 shots, it seems that there was enough time to make a decision as
  to what form of protection to the officer could have been used.”

  Do you consider someone moving towards you with a knife a threat to your life? I know I do and I would employ deadly force to end the threat.

• Anonymous

  hats off to Bangor Daily!  this man was not experienced enough to handle a gun

• Anonymous

  According to news report he was 25 feet away and a taser can reach, well most of then at least 30 that is not the good ones the  great onescan reach up to 55 feet.  

• Anonymous

  I do not understand why you think an officer’s life has been ruined. i thought the reporting was pretty straightforward  and fair.

• Tom Rolfson

  Lethal backup doesn’t mean that the same officer has another weapon, it means that a different officer has his lethal weapon ready to use immediately if the non-lethal doesn’t work.  Any time “backup” is used, it refers to another officer, which in this case there was not.  Also, you generally cannot fire a tazer more than once.  So if the target is missed by the tazer, then the officer is back to square one.  Most people just don’t have a clue what the protocols are for close combat with lethal and non-lethal weapons, so I don’t blame you for your misunderstanding.  The man with the knife most likely knew what was going to happen to him, but unfortunately we may never know what was going through his head.  This case is a prime example of how we need to try harder to take care of our veterans when they come home so these types of incidents don’t happen.  

• honey777

  No, he was not in his office.  He was OUTSIDE alone with the guy.

• Anonymous

  Or maybe he doesn’t shoot at all and goes inside and gets help from a more experienced officer.

  We can play the what if game all day.

• Anonymous

  This guy never attended the criminal justice academy??? What’s up with even having this guy on the police force. And he was allowed to carry both weapons, plus the spray??? What are the people (THE CHIEF) thinking???? This is way past the norm. We have to have all our part time cops go to the academy before they can serve. The towns insurance will take a big hit on this one and the Chief should be looked at closley. This shooting was totally uncalled for. And – We spent money on an autopsy to discover the the man died from multiple gun shot wounds. DAH!!!

• Anonymous

  Stop killing mentally ill vets!!!!!!

• Mark Goldman

  This story title is appalling.  The taser is never used as a one on one device against deadly force because there are too many variables to come into play. First a person needs to be successfully hit with two probes, then the probes need to be a certain distance apart to work effectively to incapacitate them. The taser would only be used in this circumstance if there was another officer there covering him with their duty gun anything else would be putting the officers life at risk.
   
  Officers can not shoot people in the knees either. The ability to react to someone’s action, draw your weapon and shoot such a small target when it is charging you with a knife is nearly impossible so when you miss them or not effectively incapacitate them, your going to get stabbed.
   
  Tasers are a luxury not a certainty, handguns and long rifles are not always a certainty. Officers know this and die every year because of it trying to make our communities safe.  I wish the best to the officer involved.  I’m also sorry for the veteran we loss and the hardships he faced to put him in this place.   

• Anonymous

  OMG..anything to sell a paper!  deadly threat equals deadly force. unarmed less then deadly threat equals taser…this article resembles gossip tabloids.  I feel for the veteran that had issues.  I believe it was a suicide by police.  Not quite sure what the terminology for that is.  Rosie just happened to be the one stuck in the middle.

• Anonymous

  have you ever been charged with a real knife within 18 ft?

• Anonymous

  I have friends that work in the mental health fieldage 65  all of 5ft tall and 110lb soak and wet. I won’t put her name on here, but I read the reportable Event, and talked to her. She and another tiny just out of high school girl. Took a knife away from a 250lb 6ft man. She stated that she did it by herself and the young girl did as instructed, I believe that to be the case. Speeed, accuracy and fighting for your LIFE. No one was injured. Is it the best case senerio, NO. Woman 5ft shouldn’t be taking on 6ft MEN with knives, but in the mental health field this is common. Do we carry in our purses, NO!!! We would be FIRED and loose all rights to work with anyone! I think this is disgusting. If this man needs training tell him to contact me and I will give him her name, she retired this summer. I gaurentee she knows more about mental health in her pinky then he does in his whole body.

• Anonymous

  That’s presuming he has a clear path of exit to go get help.  Calling for backup would be a better choice if the circumstances had permitted.  Only cowards run and leave a knife wielding person alone to potentially hurt someone.  You are right we can do this all day.  I finally have a day off and my common sense and will to live will beat your 2nd guessing all day!

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_APVQP3EVSE5DP4AWT63WGEYF7A Hello

  Hard to believe so many adults still believe these deadly force situations are something out of hollywood. “Shoot him in the knee, shoot the knife out of his hand, shoot the hat off his head!” It does NOT work like that. When you are in a situation when your life is in danger your adrenaline takes over and even the most simple acts are difficult to perform. I dont know all the details, but it certainly sounds like the officer was correct in judgement. Whether or not the veteran was plotting a “death by cop” suicide, Officer Rosie prevented him from doing harm to others.  

• Anonymous

  Knife? Really? A gun I can understand. I wouldn’t use a taser against a gun. That is stupid. A knife can be taken away and should be attempted first. This cop must have had back up. If I can take a knife from you, he can take a knife from him. Training! Training! Training! If he didn’t have the gun, he would’ve gotten the knife!  Trust me I know. In my work we have had alot of incidents, and only one small person that I know of has gotten really hurt. The rest of us, yes, cuts, rug burns,broken bones, bitten, ect…  Mental health isn’t easy work. I believe the LAWS need to change, to protect the mentally ill. That stated, a gun must always come up against a gun. That is reasonable force.

• Anonymous

  “As with all fatal police shootings in Maine, the incident is being investigated by the Maine Attorney General’s Office.”

  And as with all police shootings, it will be found justified.  No officer has ever made a mistake in the more than 20 years the AG has been doing the reviews.  Must be great to be perfect. 

  This one may have been necessary, maybe not, no way to tell with just news reports for info.  The problem is that with no independent review of the facts the public can’t have any confidence in the findings when they do come out.   We need a completely independent board of review for all deadly force use in this State. 

• Anonymous

  It is indeed a wonderful situation, where a soldier can escape being killed while serving his country only to come home and be shot dead due to an affliction brought on as a result of his service to his country.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_APVQP3EVSE5DP4AWT63WGEYF7A Hello

  Great post, no other comment on here describes what a lethal situation like this can be like except this one.

• Anonymous

  “Officer Rosie prevented him from doing harm to others”.  That’s your justification for a death?  Where is the evidence that he was threatening any one else; that anyone else was even in the area of the incident?   Who is the Other you see as in “imminent risk of serious injury or death” ?  That after all is the statutory criteria for use of deadly force.

  If preventing some speculative threat to persons not present is a reason for killing a person, than the police are free to shoot anyone they  choose based on that same analysis. Where is the suggestion he threatened even this officer?  You have do basis for your conclusion except the ever popular “the cops are always right” paradigm employed by the AG. 

  We don’t know enough to tell anything right now and that includes your broad statements of exculpation or justification.

• Anonymous

  I don’t own a car and I heat with wood and pellets. I use cloth bags for groceries so I don’t contribute to more oil-based plastics being thrown into the trash piles. I buy as much as possible locally.  Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to avoid petroleum-based products entirely, but I do everything in my power to limit my use to the absolute minimum. And you?

• Anonymous

  I saw his parents on the tv news last night… it broke my heart and to see his pic above makes my heart break again.

• Anonymous

  Speak for yourself…you dont know EVERYONE…

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TJYZV7JWWJCPG7BX65EM6UOHZ4 Skowhegan Resident

  Smilek  used an aluminum flashlight to viciously attack an innocent unarmed man that suffered serve head and facial injuries.   
  Smilek’s flashlight was covered in blood after he was done beating the victim.
   Victims often die after viciously beatings.  But like using the ‘race card’ , Smilek had the  use of the  PTSD card.

  PTSD is NOT an excuse for what Smilek did to that person.

  Thank you Smilk for service  in the military
  Thank you  Farmington Officer Rosie for your service as a police officer. 
  Both jobs known for being very stressful

  Me? Injured in line of duty[non combat],USArmy ,september12, 1992, with noticeable injuries that are with me today.

• Anonymous

  In response to Ms. Amy Daly’s post which was: “Hmm.  Something isn’t ringing quite right about this story.  BDN, I think that you need to get more information before you print stories like this.  First, there are more people who will be affected by this story – including the officer’s family, the victim’s family, the officer involved, and also ALL disabled veterans in Maine.  As I read this, I saw an inexperienced officer who may have overreacted, but I do not know what provoked this fellow.  Was the officer power hungry and on an ego trip, or was he provoked by this person.  Why would a person just “attack” an officer?  Then again, why did the officer use deadly force without first exhausting the “least amount of force” mandate?  I have trained state troopers, correctional officers, and sheriff’s deputies, and none of them would willingly pull a gun without trying to utilize other methods first.Finally, given that I taught martial arts and CQC for years, I have taught my people to defend against knife attacks.  This is standard training for ALL law enforcement.  Why did this officer deviate from such training?  As I said, there is much that has been left out from this story. “

• Anonymous

  He wasn’t really a cop, he never received the 18 week training, and hadn’t been on the job for even and half year….. Just a jerk with a gun who got scared and shot away.

• Anonymous

  Rusjan. It’s a good thing you were never in law enforcement, otherwise using your logic, you’d be a dead law enforcement officer. Tasers are not 100% effective, period. If the assailant is wearing heavy clothing, ie; winter jacket plus warmer clothing underneath can affect electrode penetration. I’ve seen electrodes bounce off of zippers and metal buttons in some demos. If the electrode does not penetrate skin, it is useless and that knife is in you before you know it. If an officer is threatened by deadly force, his ONLY counter defense is deadly force no matter what mental condition of the assailant might be. You shoot to kill.

• Anonymous

  Ok rusjan your reading comprehension is now coming into question.

• Anonymous

  a knife in the hands of a former special forces soldier is deadly force.

• Anonymous

  Some people on here choose to blame the officer for this unfortunate situation. If it were me and my choices were him or me, I’d choose me. Period, end of discussion. That being said however, RIP Mr. Crowley-Smilek. May your after life be more kind to you than this one.

• Anonymous

  your assailant isnt gonna stand there while you decide if it worked or not. the officer defended his life against a known assailant who was a special forces soldier trained to usse the knife in his hand to kill.

• Anonymous

  Crowley-Smilek was arrested last Saturday after police were called to the parking lot of the Front Street Tavern in Farmington for a man who had been assaulted.

  Police say a man who was sleeping in his car suffered serious
  injuries when he was beaten on the head and face with an aluminum
  flashlight for refusing to give two men a ride.

• Anonymous

  Blame Togus V.A. they dropped the ball! They guy was a veteran. He was sick. Togus did not do what they needed to do. The cop did what he had to do . Everyone loses!

• Anonymous

  He should have used the Taser, if he had they would both be alive and happy.

• Anonymous

  They are not ruining this young officer……He has done that to himself.

• Anonymous

  Cops, do not have the very same training as an Army Ranger, et that through your thick scull.
  99% of the cops in Maine have no training whatsoever.

• Anonymous

  Kevin, you need to get off this “I Luv Cops” attitude.

• Anonymous

  Who nows for sure he suffered from ptsd? Did anyone see his records? He was by polar ? Did anyone see the records? This man was sick for sure. He went to togas V.A. They didnt help him! This is not the first and won;t be the last! Togus sucks! Everyone loses! The kids dead. the cop has to live with it. And the V.A. gets the bad rap it deserves!

• AionNV

  Because they’re better than using lethal force in a relatively controlled situation.

  This incident was a tragedy, but this vet was wielding a knife and was going to use it.

  People want to blame someone, I think they should blame the VA and the state for not incarcerating this vet when he committed a violent crime against a stranger sleeping in his own truck.  
  There is no excuse for this vet being allowed to wreak havoc on the public when he had already displayed a propensity towards unprovoked violence towards strangers.  He should have been locked up and given the treatment he refused, which clearly he needed before he committed suicide by cop.

• AionNV

  You are absolutely right, because we all know that people often wield knives at cops and live to tell about it.

  That’s sarcasm, in case you haven’t figured it out.

• Anonymous

  Why was an inexperienced officer sent to the scene of a potentially volatile situation??

• Anonymous

  The flashlight incident is not justification for shooting him days later.  That would be an execution.  See story and it states that this officer knew nothing of the man, including his history of arrest.

  Deadly force justification require an IMMINENT threat of serious injury or death to another person.  not only do we have no evidence of any threat to the officer(confrontation does not equal threat of harm)  but surely no one else was in harms way or even present. 

• Anonymous

  Where’s the VA???No inpatient PTSD program at Togus,just drug them up and send them out
  the door…

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  Not gonna lie, this article kinda makes me angry.  This article wasn’t necessary at all BDN.  People read this and just react even though they weren’t there and certainly weren’t in Officer Rosie’s shoes. 

  I definitely wish he had pulled the Taser instead of the gun but plain and simple, he didn’t have the proper training and reacted through instinct only.  I’m extremely ignorant to the fact of why a police force can hire someone who hasn’t been through the academy yet.  Anyone out there shed some light on this?  I think the dept. is where the blame lays in these situations. You give a person a badge and gun but no specific training?  Isn’t that a little irresponsible?

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  YES! YES! YES!!!!!! I so agree with you on all these points!  Why did he shoot to kill and not injure?????? Why are untrained officers allowed weapons but not the skill set they need to “protect” us?  My condolences as well to both families.  Terrible, terrible situation all around.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  You don’t know if he was going to use it.  Wielding it yes but you don’t know his intent.  I doubt the office knew his actual intent. What if he was going to commit suicide with it?

• Anonymous

  You may have
  the day off and the ignorance to run your mouth all day, but common sense?? No
  I don’t think so. Sorry : ( But don’t let me stop you, keep chasing your tail
  and I’ll sit here and laugh at you. I could use the comic relief.

   

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  Mr. BULLY,
  If your gonna guess, then so am I.  I’m guessing Mr. Crowley-Smilek though if he brandished his weapon he would be taken into custody.  I’m guessing that he just wanted help and not to die. 

  My point is neither of us can guess. We can’t form these opinions  that Mr. Crowley-Smith was a “bad guy” and that Officer Rosie didn’t have enough time to get his Taser.  The only thing we should be saying it it’s a bad situation and everyone involved has our condolences.  I hope Officer Rosie can work though this without an ill side effect, like oh, PTSD because we all know the stigma you get with that label….you become the “bad guy”

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  Have  you?

• Anonymous

  This incident is a tragedy for everyone involved, but the fact is that non-lethal intervention had already been tried.  Justin had been on medication to treat his mental illness, but made the decision to stop taking the medication. I realize that a lot of people don’t want to hold anyone accountable for their personal choices, especially a brave soldier who served his country, but Justin alone is responsible for putting a person in the position that taking another life seemed–in a split-second decision– to be the only way to protect his own.
   RIP Mr. Crowley-Smilek. I pray that people will remember you for the hero that you were.

• Roy Blenkhorn

  It sounds to me like the cop had no training as he hadn’t even attendend criminal justice academy yet. he was only 5 months on the job.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KPT6VK3GKRDQKE2CI7J5PNTAVE Jacquelyn

  Thank you

• Anonymous

  Wow, you really know nothing……about what constitutes an imminent threat. Unbelievable!

• Anonymous

  I suggest a call to the Attorney General’s office MIGHT give you that information. BUT if it is as in other States illegal for him to be carrying without completing his 100 hours I am sure a fake 100 hr certificate will appear probably out of Hawaii like Obama’s birth certificate.

• Anonymous

  Again you really know nothing……The “other” doesn’t matter. It was the officer who thought he was in imminent risk of serious bodily injury or death.

• Anonymous

  Town insurance won’t have to pay a thing.

• Anonymous

  I missed the part that said he didn’t have any training? Actually if you look at his training, you would find he did what he was supposed to.

• Anonymous

  Well Hello, since this untrained officer reportedly shot 4 times at this Veteran. Let’s see how fast your attitude changes – Your wife and kids, or your father and mother, or two of your best friends happened to be driving into that parking lot of the town hall for whatever reason… and one of those 4 bullets from the untrained officers gun missed the Veteran hit the vehicle of your loved ones or friends. Penetrated the window glass and killed one of your loved ones or friends.  No one knows at this point exactly how many people were in that parking lot, on that street, on that sidewalk, neighboring property, or just walking out the door of the town hall.  Now, let’s see you stick up for an untrained, obviously bad shot if it took 4 death shots to finally reach his goal, officer!

• Anonymous

  Do some research. 4 shots is normal.

• Anonymous

  If that were the case, and Togus said that it wasn’t,  he would have been committed.. Read the parents side of things as well.  You will plainly see that they tried to get him committed, but the VA said ..no.     

  And the cops knew him, and knew his problems.

• Anonymous

  The public was in far more danger from an untrained officer with a loaded gun and who knows how much more ammo. Then they ever were with one man with a ” still unidentified” knife!   Did all 4 shots go into this Veteran? Or did they fly all over the parking lot? Endangering how many innocent peoples’ lives??

• Anonymous

  Officer Rosie is a “he”.  As far as a shattered career is concerned,  re read my post…”may have his career shattered _or not,_ “

• Anonymous

  Ok…..and I will believe that, in spite of all the reasearch I’ve done.  If theyare that ineffective, then why have them at all.

  What about mace ?    or a disabling shot,   and I don’t care what you say, a taser.    You and your holier than thou, with the attitude that I know what I’m talking about, but if you disagree with me you’re an idiot…….which is what you portray……certainly won’t be missed.

• Anonymous

  Guess we will never know now will we.  What good are tasers if they aren’t trustworth.?    Do you know what this veteran was wearing?,   Do you know how many layers?     

  That cop panicked like a little girl.  If he had the time to decide whether or not to use the taser, then he had time to aim for a disabling shot.   Which would have been just ONE shot, not four.

  He had only dipped a toe to test the water of the Criminal Justice Academy, he was to go in January.  So it doesn’t matter what the CJ Academy teaches……he hadn’t been there long enough to even matter.

• Anonymous

  I think he may have more common sense than you seeing as you didn’t even both to reply to what he actually said (about being able to go back inside).  I, personally, agree with him that doing so would be irresponsible (leaving an armed person alone?) and might not even have been possible.  Where is your argument as to why this lacks common sense?  You didn’t make one.  Instead you resorted to cheap insults and are apparently laughing while discussing someone’s death.

• Anonymous

  I don’t complain about our nation being after oil because I already know I’m dependent on it.

• Anonymous

  New ‘Era’ for ‘Rosie the riveter’.
  I will keep my eye on you.

  ‘Way too many’ ‘COP’ lovers on here!
  They are all crooked….just saying.

• Anonymous

   Excellent post, and spot on.  If a former Army Ranger was coming at me, I wouldn’t depend on  taser either.  I have seen druggies simply shrug off a taser attempt.  It is a sad situation for everyone involved.

  I fault the VA for not getting this man the help he needed, and now it is too late.

  Sidewalk quarterbacks need not apply for a job that on it’s best day a dangerous one.

• Anonymous

  so it is your position that an assault of someone else days before, a fact unknown to the officer at the time of the shooting, constitutes an “imminent” threat to, well, whom? 

  here’s the definition for you: 
  im·mi·nent   [im-uh-nuhnt] 
  adjective 1. likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent.

  What am I missing here Mr. informed?

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJEUWEYRHIPWV3PTTWWNUZ2CTQ mcmaineacjam

   I can’t blame the officer, I would have probably reacted the same way in a self defense situation. However, four shots and killing someone armed with a knife it seems to me like he panicked, though once again, something I might do. A police officer needs to be able to make these types of quick decisions without panicking. I don’t feel the officer did anything criminally wrong, but I belive he should find another job where panicking does not end up with someone dead.

• Anonymous

  Dear Mr. IGNORANT,

  It was not I who suggested that a danger to OTHERS was the justification, it was  HELLO.  I was responding to HIS claim that ” Officer Rosie prevented him from doing harm to others”. 

  If you want to participate in a discussion,  read all of it.  Then you attacks will at least have some relevant context do matter how vapid the knee jerk reaction they contain.

• Anonymous

  I agree.  No one can say even with training what choice he would have made or what choice anyone would make in that situation, but why would we have an untrained police force out on calls?  That is dangerous for all involved.

• Anonymous

  I think it said in an earlier article that he was refusing treatment and his family couldn’t force him to get it by law.

• Anonymous

  They didnt have to shoot to kill….the officer could have taken both his knee caps out and brought him to the ground in seconds….he didn’t need to die…so sad

• Anonymous

  WOW!! I can’t believe how many citizens want to see cops get killed.

  Seems they hate the fact that more bad guys are being killed than law enforcement.

  “It’s just so unfair”!!  “Things should be more even”!!!  “We should erect an encampment”!!!

• Anonymous

  The Police are getting totally out of control as demonstrated in countless stories like this one all across America!  We The People must demand that these renegade Police Officers are held accountable under the law just like every other citizen. Failure to do so will Most Definitely result in a Police State more drastic than depicted in Orwell’s 1984!

• Anonymous

  Tell that to this failed veterans family! Shame on YOU!

• Anonymous

  If tasers cannot be relied on, why bother to carry them?

• Anonymous

  We all have to remember that this officer had to make a split second decision. We can all say that the gun would have to be the last resort. We don’t know that(and I pray we never will).

• Anonymous

  Hollywood

• http://twitter.com/Kadagan66 Just Me

  As an Army Ranger and as a Maine citizen I can tell you that a Ranger with a knife could tear up any police officer and kill him “easily”  The Ranger moto is “All the way…”  you don’t disable your enemy, you dont wound him, you don’t scare him… you KILL him.

  If the police officer didn’t kill this ill Ranger, we would probably be reading a tragic story about a police officer butchered by a veteran outside of a police station.  I feel for my brother but I support the officer.

• Anonymous

  Is there a reason, and its only a question why you defend cops so much.

• Anonymous

  But we don’t KNOW that he had to make a split second decision.  Or any decision at all.  You post assumes that the officer was attacked but nothing in the stories to date say that.  It is no more appropriate to assume that he acted appropriately than to assume that he did not. 

  A problem I see here and in every story about shootings is the polarized responses based on blind belief in the perfection of officers or assumption that they are all looking for someone to shoot.

  For example you will see here comments about the “if it had to be him or me”, or that the officers do a tough job and have to assure “that they go home at night”.  There is third alternative that is completely ignored by the perpetual defenders of deadly force; how about everyone goes home and lives to see another day? 

• Anonymous

  I understand what your saying. But by you saying that I assume the officer was attacked, is kind of like saying this officer just went outside and decided to shoot a man just there to talk to him in broad daylight.

• Anonymous

  This is why officers need training on how to deal with mentally ill citizens. They make rash decisions and kill people out of fear and ignornace…instead of helping them get the medical and psychological services they need. We are truly in a policed culture. 

• Anonymous

  This is what happens when officers of the “law” are not trained or competent enough to deal effectively with citizens suffering from mental illness. We are truly in a policed culture.

• Anonymous

  But you are assuming that there was a “self defense situation” aren’t you.   Is it appropriate to assume the very facts that are undisclosed, in question and the very facts that answer the issue raised, justification?

  My point is that no one should be reaching conclusions and that, unfortunately, because the AG does the investigation,  no one should ever have the confidence that they have all the information to do so.  We need an independent review of all officer force use events weather deadly force or just excessive.

• Anonymous

  How can his medication use, or non use, be a justifying factor when it is conceded that the officer had no knowledge of this man prior to their encounter?  Is your position that any one not taking meds is subject to summary execution when “confronting” an officer?  Use some logic at least. 

• Anonymous

  Where did you get the information that he was ” threatening to kill/ gut/ maim” anyone?  Your statement is based on the assumption that the shooting was justified.  Is that any more appropriate than those above assuming that it was an “execution” or that the officer was wrong?

• Anonymous

  Again, your reply indicates you still have no clue about deadly force.

• Anonymous

  It is Ms. Ignorant.

• Anonymous

  Ignorant: “He did what he was supposed to”.

  So he was sent out to the parking lot with the purpose of shooting this man?  Is that what you mean or is it that you have, again, assumed the shooting was justified and therefore training, or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

  While it is clear that he wasn’t an Academy graduate from the fulltime officers course, It may  be  that he completed the 100 hour course given to part time and corrections officers .  If so he did have firearms and taser training.

  Ignorant, there are simply to few public facts for anyone, on either side, to be making these broad statements about what happened. 

• Anonymous

  That’s just wrong.

• Anonymous

  you are very confused as to the law in Maine.

   There is no law that says “Never point a gun at anybody unless you are going to kill them.”And Maine law does say that a person (not an officer, that is a different set of laws entirely) must retreat if possible except in their own home. See title 17-A sec.108 (2)(C)(3)(a). 

  Why is that important?  Because you should look up the law before trying to recite it in your argument. on that you should be very clear…..

• Anonymous

  And I said neither.  The first line is clear, we don’t know what happened.

• Anonymous

  How was the officer to know he was mentally ill?  Is he suppose to ask before he makes a decision?  How about citizens stop pulling out weapons on police officers, and then they wont get shot?  That sounds like a better idea!!

• Anonymous

  You need to rethink your values…. When an officer/soldier/etc decides he needs to use his weapon, he is using it to kill… Not harm, not wound…. BUT KILL!!  Plain and simple… If you dont want to die, then dont pull a weapon out on a officer… Simple as that

• Anonymous

  The man pulled a knife out on the officer… that is life or death…. If he had not pulled out the knife, he would not have been shot

• Anonymous

  If he had not pulled out a knife, he would be alive

• Anonymous

  So when someone charges you with a knife you need to first determine wether or not he’s mentally ill and needs medical and psychological services or try to determine if he’s just a sane murderer?

  Just what type of training does one have to have to make this determination in a split second in a life or death situation?

  Maybe cops should have a therapist stand in front of them at all times and the therapist can make the decision to defend or talk about the attackers childhood.  If we lose a few therapists I’m sure you wouldn’t mind, at least the effort was put forth.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  What?

• Anonymous

  I have tried to keep my thoughts to my self on this, but after reading more of the comments I can’t remain quiet any longer.

  For those of you that think the officer was wrong, I challenge you to log off your computer, turn off you tv and become a police officer and let yourself be put in the same situation and see if you make the same decisions when you are placed in the officer’s shoes. I am not in law enforcement, but I do see some people like deceased in my line of work as an EMT. In a split second, you have to figure out what is wrong, if and what the person is under the influence of and decide a course of action. Tasers do not always slow down a person if they are under the influence of some drugs. I am not saying this individual was.

  And for those of you that say Veteran deserves better, I agree. But, I am guessing the officer had no way of knowing he was a Veteran and giving the circumstances, it wouldn’t have made a difference. This man needed help and he went about getting it the wrong way.

  My thoughts and prayers are with both families in this terrible tragedy.

• Anonymous

  I haven’t followed every story like this, but it is the first time I’ve ever seen the picture of the officer who did the shooting. Of what benefit to your readership BDN does posting his picture do?

• Anonymous

  Really? My position is that if on his meds Crowley-Smilek likely would not have been involved in the situation in the first place, and you somehow think that logic brings you to the conclusion that he deserved execution. You are obviously a track and field star if you can make a leap like that,

• http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

  The idea of militarizing our police is a huge mistake and undermines the integrity of our Constitution that restricts the use of military assets on its own people.  It is becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish between the two considering the police are a pari-military and share many tools and methods. Training our officers to shoot to kill is not what is in the best interest of anyone.  

  The need, development and employment of non lethal or less lethal tools are the result of shootings such as this, not just for unarmed  people. 

• Anonymous

  This officer should have defused this situation . I’m not sure if true ,but heard he fired 4 shots. if so that sounds like he was making sure. this whole incident is wrong ,very wrong. To much deadly force is being used lately. very sad if that’s the new first response.
   

• Anonymous

  Nicely said brother!

• Anonymous

  I am curious, did you read the above story before you made this statement – “You post assumes that the officer was attacked but nothing in the stories to date say that.”

  In the first paragraph of the above story I found the following affirmative statement – “A local police officer who shot and killed a veteran Saturday had a
  Taser but elected not to use it when the man came at him with a knife,
  according to the police chief.”

  What do you think the Police Chief meant?

• Anonymous

  Your question was pretty much answered while I was at work but I’ll throw this in.  The officers that I have talked to report roughly 25% rate.  That may be in part due to the distance, moving target, I know there have been a couple of times when the probes failed to fire from the taser.  I was also told that certain clothing types that will interfere with the effectiveness of the taser.  I also had one Officer tell me that he has had roughly 50% failure rate.

  And as mentioned before, if you can safely try the taser, it’s always better then resorting to firearms. 

• Anonymous

  from the article:  “Eric Parker, assistant director of the Maine Criminal Justice Academy, did not respond Monday to a voice mail request for information about what kind of training new officers receive at the academy.”
  **************************************
  It’s a 100 hour course.  About two weeks of a full-time job.  Most depts. require an applicant to have completed this 100-hour course when they apply for a position as a police officer.  I am not sure if an applicant has to pay for the course or not.  There’s not much you CAN learn in 100 hours—just very basic self-defense, how to write a ticket, department command structure…
  The 18 week course they attend after they are hired is where the learning and training comes in, and theyget “on-the-job training” between the day of hire and the day they start the 18 week training.

• Anonymous

  Because the tazer can fail and he was being faced with a deadly force….
  ********************************************
  So why are my TAX DOLLARS paying for unreliable, unpredictable junk for you guys?  You just HAVE to have the latest TOYS out on the market today, don’t you? 

• Anonymous

  People who want help ask for it.  No one thinks that attacking a cop with a knife will result in “getting help.” 
  I agree that this is very little to work with as far as solid evidence.  But if people are going to put bad information out there, I’m going to combat it with information I know to be true and reliable. There is far more evidence to support “suicide by cop” than there is that the police did something wrong.
  I agree that some people need additional help, that doesn’t mean someone failed him.  This Vet wasn’t a bad guy because he has PTSD.  He was a bad guy because he threatened someone’s life, forcing them to make a life altering decision.

• Anonymous

  I do have the training, education and experience with this topic to know what I’m talking about.  Otherwise I’d keep my mouth shut.

• Anonymous

  Even part-time cops get nearly 300 hours of training prior to hitting the streets alone.

• Anonymous

  Your comment criticizes the BDN for not having enough “information” before printing this story but then you speculate that the officer is “inexperienced,” “Power Hungry” on an”ego trip,” that he didn’t exhaust his minimal force mandate???

  I don’t know what you were training these cops in when you were doing it there’s not one that I know of that would agree with your statement.  It’s actually so far off base that it makes me questions your honesty.  And I know FOR A FACT that NO officer would use a martial arts technique to defend themselves against a knife when they have a gun.  That’s absurd.  It’s not standard training and the few instructors who have touched on it have made it clear that it would be for the remote possibility that they were some how disarmed.  No reasonable person would chose that route.  If you truly believe it that you risk never going home to your families again.  Not worth it in my book.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

  Why is he referred to as “The veteran” instead of his name? Kind of makes it sound like the LE had some kind of grudge against the military?

• http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

  I think it is equally absurd for you to support the use of deadly force by police having never been one.  I have been trained by the Maine Criminal Justice Academy and was trained in tactical firearm response by Bob Bishop ,Bangor PD’s training officer.  What is the origin of your opinion again? nlk dck?  Oh yeah EMT… maybe if you feel the general public shouldn’t have an opinion on the use of deadly force, then perhaps you should stick to topics relating to bringing people to the hospital.

• Anonymous

  and you know what trainings this officer has or has not had there Lollipop???? ah huh! Yeah Right…

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TJYZV7JWWJCPG7BX65EM6UOHZ4 Skowhegan Resident

  Smilek used an aluminum flashlight to viciously attack an innocent unarmed man that suffered serve head and facial injuries. Smilek’s flashlight was covered in blood after he was done beating the victim’
  [from an article in the KJ]

  PTSD is NOT an excuse for what Smilek did to that person.

• Anonymous

  Yes, Togus sucks! EZ to say & little do you know

• Anonymous

  Good post. I too agree that these Vets should be allowed to roam, firing rifles and threatening officers with knives! And should one bash a dudes skull in with a flashlight, well, sucks to be the bashed dude, because, after all, it was a VET whom was the attacker, and he should be allowed! After all, these poor men and women are DRAFTED into wars against their wills! Oh wait…they volunteer during a time of war? No draft? Oops.. well, there’s always the comment above. Just let them commit their violence, and don’t allow the police whom are charged with fighting crime do their jobs on Vets.

  Is there anyway we can get some chip or come **** like that installed in all non-vets, just so we’re positive it’s ok for someone to use deadly force to stop their deadly force?

• Anonymous

  I say again. A cop down south was asked by the Judge why he shot a guy 9 times, He said; because I ran out of bullets.
  When you shoot, shoot to kill. I may be your last chance.

• Anonymous

  If a cops career is 30 years and he gets 1 punch in the face every month that would be 360 punchs in the face during his career. Can you imagine what his face would look like in 30 years?

  If one attempt a year of getting stabbed, thats 30 attempts. Think he can take a 1 in 30 chance?

  This list can go on and on. Think about it.

  A cop must protect themself at all times.

  God bless our peace keepers.

• Anonymous

  “Farmington officer opted not to use Taser in fatal shooting”  This head line  implies a decision was considered and made . That there was time for a  debate on the two tools.
   That is why I feel this to be a disgustingly inappropriate headline.

• Anonymous

  Wrong,  No where  has it been said that the officer considered  both tools and that he made a conscious , or otherwise, decision  on which one to use.Or if he even had time to make decision, other than to react to an  Imminent threat in a split second. .  He probable had a Baton  also,  more than likely hand cuff’s  and he  might have had training in hand to hand combat, all tools he might have used, but no mention of  those decision.
  None of us know all of the details  of this event, that’s what makes this headline disgusting.

• Anonymous

  And you always blame the cop, always. And even after everyone involved clears the cop of any wrong doing or ill intent, you persist. that is what makes your post irrelevant. You seem to fancy yourself an expert, on everything. More than likely a poser, hiding behind a  screen name. .

• Anonymous

  Blah, Blah, Blah.

• Anonymous

  If  what we have heard so far, they would have trained him to do  exactly what he dd, and rightfully so.

• Anonymous

  speaking of little Girls..

• Anonymous

  So, going up against  unruly children or  otherwise average citizens with mental health issue’s  present the same level of threat as does a troubled  Army special forces operator , armed with a knife. Yes, we should defer to your expertise.

• Bryan Lumbra

  I live around the corner from the town office/police station/fire station where this happened.  The door is locked on the weekends.  He used the phone to call inside.  The police officer would have come out and the door would have locked behind him.  This poor police officer was put in a suicide by cop situation.  His girlfriend has been very open about his condition.  You might find this article enlightening.  

  http://www.dailybulldog.com/db/features/girlfriend-crowley-smilek-wanted-to-kill-himself-family-disagrees/

• Anonymous

  “Surrender is not a ranger word” – Army Ranger oath http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/rangercreed.htm

   ”But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:  Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.  Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.  But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.” – Matthew 5:34-38 King James Version (KJV)

  The stars turn,
  beliefs sway.
  What might prove wrong some enlightened tomorrow,
  might seem right today.

  We eventually learn,
  for one truth it’s been a chore:
  If you have to kill to implement your ideals,
  your ideals aren’t worth killing for.

  Liberty’s lights burn.
  Her electric bill our defenders pay.
  They put the rare coins of there lives in our hands,
  not to be squandered away.

  Cracking concrete fern,
  unfurls the truth’s persisting bud:
  Ideas proven perfect flourish,
  unfertilized by kilowatt-hours of blood.

• Anonymous

  Hardly.  So where is that statute that says Never point a gun unless you are going to kill?  Didn’t think so. And you see from your own cite that retreat IS required except in your own home.  You may now apologize .

  Skip

  ________________________________
  From: Disqus
  To: chspurl@yahoo.com
  Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:40 PM
  Subject: [bdn] Re: Farmington officer opted not to use Taser in fatal shooting

  Disqus generic email template

  IManGFox wrote, in response to paytreot:
  Your naivety is only exceeded by the inaccuracy of your cumulative interpretation of  this law. Just to be clear we are both talking about Title 17-A: MAINE CRIMINAL CODE Part 1: GENERAL PRINCIPLES Chapter 5: DEFENSES AND AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES;JUSTIFICATION. First we are told 2.   A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person: A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is: (1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person;… Then we are told C. However, a person is not justified in using deadly force as provided in paragraph A if: (3) The person knows that the person or a 3rd person can, with complete safety: (a) Retreat from the encounter, except that the person or the 3rd person is not required to retreat if the person or the 3rd person is in the person’s dwelling place and was not the initial aggressor;… pay special attention to the phrase “The person knows that the person or a 3rd person can, with complete safety…” How can a person know that they can retreat with complete safety from a deadly situation? That’s a subjective bar set so high as to be meaningless in most cases. Now back up a little please and pay close attention to “2.   A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person: A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is: (1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person;” So if you point your gun at me or somebody else and I believe you are about to use deadly force illegally I have a right if not a moral obligation to use deadly force on you even if you are not in my house and I have no duty to retreat. Link to comment

• Anonymous

  He reacted properly as per the way police in Maine are trained.  If someone comes at you with a knife, you use your gun against them to defend your own life.  That is the training they receive.  Even part-time officers would have taken the 100-Hour course.  He reacted appropriately.  Call the Police Academy in Vasselboro or your local legislator if you think this is incorrect and you think they should train LE differently.  But the fact is, gun in response to knife IS the appropriate response.  He was trained well enough to know that.  Just sayin…

• Anonymous

  That is a fact. That is part of what makes this such a tragedy. I respect and thank all who serve our country. That does not change the facts that I am glad the officer went home to his family and that we have law enforcement officers who are willing to do a tough job that many, while sitting safe and sound in their homes, would not even consider doing.