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• Anonymous

  When will people learn that whenever the government imposes anything on any business, the end result is higher costs to the consumer?

• Anonymous

  “To make Maine a more business-friendly state, LePage said high energy prices must be reined inand the state’s regulatory framework has to be streamlined.”   BDN  -  22/10/11

  So he and his supports should be in agreement with this voter energy bill, which will create   a better more stable planning environment for all businesses, but especially the fast growing post oil energy industries. 
     
  This is a test.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  Referendum #1: Should all Maine residents be required to accept full economic subjugation by the Natural Resources Council of Maine, the Maine Renewable Energy Coalition, Reed & Reed construction company and the Maine State Building and Construction Trades Council?

• http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=5823658 Jared Sawyer

  this is very insightful of you thanks for sharing with the rest of us your theories on microeconomics, and while we are on the subject; perhaps you can illuminate us on your thoughts on the tragedy of the commons.

• Anonymous

  Will it require the smart meters to run both ways, so everyone can become green cause energy producers ? 

  Talk about the free market, ever ? 
  How about  streamlining  business project approval ? 

• Anonymous

  “When will people learn that whenever the government imposes anything on any business, the end result is higher costs to the consumer?”

  Are you talking about like with  nuclear power and oil industry subsidies ? If so, good point. 

  But too bad those costs, like for the wars in Asia,  to secure our oil supply and delivery routes, are not reflected in the unit cost.
  It is almost criminal that such dishonest marketing, is allowed to pervert the free market, and good old fashioned Yankee innovation, huh ?
   
  People are easily fooled by it, and so think that the highly subsidized, traditional, well established, so scaled up, but dirty, energy systems really are cheaper than  any cleaner,  decentralized, locally controlled alternatives.

• Anonymous

  Are you referring to companies that get millions in subsidies to blow the tops off all of the mountains in the state in order to produce electricity that ultimately proves to be less efficient and more costly than nuclear power while at the same time requiring the clearing of 4000 times more acerage to produce the same amount of energy?

• Anonymous

  Anybody who doesn’t know that wind will skyrocket electricity costs would serve themselves by studying this issue.

  Right off the bat it’s going to cost close to $5,000 per ratepayer in new transmission.

  Almost everywhere wind power is introduced into an area, new costly mammoth transmission is needed to handle its erratic sputtering output. An example here in Maine is the Maine Power Reliability Project (MPRP) also known as the $1.5 billion CMP upgrade. 

  Without such new transmission, the wind industry is essentially dead in the water. So how convenient that the Maine ratepayer gets to pick up the tab for such transmission projects. 

  Now you might be told that because Maine is only 8% of the New England grid, Maine ratepayers fund “only” 8% of the aforementioned $1.5 billion cost. But what ratepayers are not told is that they will pay 8% of similar wind-required new mammoth transmission projects across the grid. There have been cost estimates for these of up to $30 billion. So multiply Maine’s 8% times $30 billion and then divide by the number of ratepaying households and businesses.

  See:
  http://www.windtaskforce.org/

• Patten_Pete

  NRCM trying to associate itself with reducing electricity costs is like a pickpocket trying to win an award for honesty.

  NRCM = New Religion Conning Mainers

• Patten_Pete

  Post oil?

  That was yesterday’s threat.

  There is now an explosion in oil and natural gas in the U.S. due to new environmentally safe technologies and many say that in a few years, North America, not the Middle East will be the energy basket of the planet.

• Anonymous

  Referendum # 2; Should all Maine residents be required to accept full economic and political subjugation, giving up personal liberty and  the illusion of democracy to the master plans of Heritage Foundation, Koch Industry, and the N.A.R. ?

• Anonymous

  Renewable policies crushing New England’s economyhttp://www.windaction.org/faqs/32263

• clamcove

  So where does the renewable thing come into play. My understanding is that they are all higher cost alternatives with the exception of tidal and the jury is out on that one.

• http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1628932330 Naran Row-Spaulding

  Maine Citizens for Clean Energy’s members say their ballot initiative would control energy costs, create jobs, and make Maine more energy-independent by requiring electric utilities to invest in energy efficiency whenever it would reduce energy costs for ratepayers.

  Really? Isn’t that something like the promises we heard from the “Maine Green Energy Alliance,” too?
  Color me very skeptical.

• http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1628932330 Naran Row-Spaulding

  Cool.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  very

• Anonymous

  Hey, lets get together another group of youthful dreamers and pretend we can solve the state’s and country’s energy issue’s without bringing any new technology to the table. I know, there is a great solar company named SOLYNDRA that Pres. Obama just gave $500,000000.00 million dollars to. Oh ya, they went bankrupt leaving us taxpayers holding the bag. If these young wonders shake off the mush their college professors have been filling their brains with and get REAL they would discover that with nuclear power, hydro-electric, natural gas, wind turbines and some solar they would have a real energy infrastructure to meet the growing needs of our state and country.

• Anonymous

  Right. 
  It is not desperation to be reduced to having to mine coal sands.  
  It is, instead, your newest government subsidized oil boom. 

  ROTFLOL

• yowsayowsa1

   Good one.

   Let’s see how long it stays up.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  Apparently, not very long.

• Anonymous

  “Hey, lets get together another group of youthful dreamers” 
  Like this ? UMaine researchers unveil process to turn waste into biofuelThe Associated Press on Oct. 26, 2011, at 11:40 a.m.ORONO, Maine — University of Maine researchers have discovered a new chemical process that can transform forest residues, along with other materials such as municipal solid waste and construction wastes, into a hydrocarbon fuel oil.

• Anonymous

  “Hey, lets get together another group of youthful dreamers”

  Like this : 

  UMaine researchers unveil process to turn waste into biofuelThe Associated Press on Oct. 26, 2011, at 11:40 a.m.ORONO, Maine — University of Maine researchers have discovered a new chemical process that can transform forest residues, along with other materials such as municipal solid waste and construction wastes, into a hydrocarbon fuel oil.

• Anonymous

  More like the $2 million UMPI wind turbine that has turned into windgate and is a total failure, as predicted.
  http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/umpi-wind-turbine-2011

• Anonymous

  The smart meters are so CMP can kill demand when the wind stops blowing in order to effect the precise match of demand and supply. Translation: The Nanny knows when you don’t need air conditioning on a muggy summer night.

  QUOTE:
  A smart grid would allow the integration of variable energy sources like wind and solar. For example, if electricity output dropped suddenly due to a change in wind generation, the grid could dim the lights in big box stores by 20%, a change most people don’t perceive, say Don Von Dollen, program manager for the IntelliGrid project at the Electric Power Research Institute”.

  http://www.mainebiz.biz/news44168.html

• Anonymous

  There seems to be no end to the political shananigans the wind power corporations have initiated with maine politicians  and NRCOM, one of First Wind’s client organizations. The shenanigans included  legislatingf to EXCLUDE hydro power from Canada and elsewhere as a renewable so that Maine ratepayers would have to conform to the expensive mandate to purchase ever increasing increments of expensive wind power. One Bill that did not pass would have prevented local communities from haveing a say in local wind power siting decisions. Another, dealing with off shore, included a veiled attack on Natural Gas, another possible supplier of energy that makes wind look like a bad deal for ratepayers.  I have not been  supporter of Governor Le Page but he is the only state politician who has seen through these machinations and is supporting hydro from Quebec and natural gas. he will have to take on the corporations and their minions in the Legislature. Good going Governor.  

• Anonymous

  “There have been cost estimates for these of up to $30 billion…Right off the bat it’s going to cost close to $5,000 per ratepayer in new transmission.”
   
  Where are the sources of information that you have used to establish this $30 billion figure?  It would be good to have a chance to scrutinize your sources in order to see if there is validity to your claims.  Some of your fellow anti-wind activists quote the number at $19 billion (which itself could be an exaggeration). By the way, CMP says the upgrade in Maine will cause an increase of about 60 cents a year to the typical homeowner’s power bill by 2015, according to a report from MPBN.

  Also, your claim that the entire reason for the upgrade is to accomodate wind power ignores the fact that there have been ongoing warnings from energy experts across the land that the nation’s power infrastructure is woefully in need of upgrades.  The CMP lines have not been upgraded in 40 years.  Here’s what the American Society of Civil Engineers says about it:

  “The U.S. generation and transmission system is at a critical point requiring substantial investment in new generation, investment to improve efficiencies in existing generation, and investment in transmission and distribution systems. The transmission and distribution system has become congested because growth in electricity demand and investment in new generation facilities have not been matched by investment in new transmission facilities. This congestion virtually prohibits outages required for proper maintenance and can lead to system wide failures in the event of unplanned outages. Electricity demand has increased by about 25% since 1990 while construction of transmission facilities decreased by about 30 percent. While annual investment in new transmission facilities has generally declined or been stagnant during the last 30 years, there has been an increase in investment during the past 5 years. Substantial investment in generation, transmission, and distribution are expected over the next two decades and it has been projected that electric utility investment needs could be as much as $1.5 to $2 trillion by 2030. Some progress in grid reinforcement has been made since 2005, but public and government opposition, difficult permitting processes, and environmental requirements are often restricting the much-needed modernization.”

• Anonymous

  I beginning to think disqusbites works for BDN.   Because anyone that challenges his statements are deleted.  

• Anonymous

  “the grid could dim the lights in big box stores by 20%, a change most people don’t perceive…”

  Why is this a bad idea?  Sounds like one of the solutions which you claim are impossible to develop. 

• Anonymous

  “the grid could dim the lights in big box stores by 20%, a change most people don’t perceive…”

  Why is this a bad idea? Sounds like one of the solutions which you claim are impossible to develop.     

• Anonymous

  “the grid could dim the lights in big box stores by 20%, a change most people don’t perceive…”

  Why is this a bad idea? Sounds like one of the solutions which you claim are impossible to develop.     

• Anonymous

  I would like to see their numbers?

  What is the cost per Kilowatt hour for wind power versus gas or oil?

  If wind power is so cheap and profitable why arent private investors lining up in droves to build  them without raping the taxpayer for incentives and kick back schemes?

  The reality is their numbers are bogus and they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to con the rate payer in Maine.

  The Maine PUC should tell these fools to take a hike!

   

• Anonymous

  What is wrong with 15,000 $ home energy audits compliments of the taxpayer, Emily Cain got one you know from the green energy alliance !

• Anonymous

  We already send $5 billion per year in Maine energy dollars out of our economy for foreign sources of energy every year.  Now you want us to export more dollars to Canada for their hydro and gas.  Are you a Canadian citizen?

• Anonymous

  “There is now an explosion in oil and natural gas in the U.S. due to new environmentally safe technologies…”
  Pete, FYI:  ”Making liquid fuels from oil sands requires energy for steam injection and refining.  This process generates two to four time the amount of greenhouse gases per barrel of final product as the production of conventional oil.  If combustion of the final product is included, the so-called ‘Well to Wheels’ approach, oil sands extraction, upgrade and use emits 10 to 45% more greenhouse gases than conventional crude.”~Canadian Press, December 2009

• Anonymous

  Can I post my toaster into that ?

• Anonymous

  what is wrong with you people????

• yowsayowsa1

   Oh, like, WOW.

   Let’s just…..not use power and, like, just say no…….and, like use the power of the sun and , like, use the gentle breezes and, like ……you know, even John Denver, like knew he had to have SOME power when he, like, looked down at the fuel gauge.

• Penny Gray

  If Governor LePage reclassifies hydro as a renewable, we’ll already be there. Let’s put the contractors to work on our crumbling roads and in weatherizing our old housing stock.

• yowsayowsa1

   If it made sense, walmarthomedepotlowestargetkmart,et al would be doing it.

• Anonymous

  “What is the cost per Kilowatt hour for wind power versus gas or oil?…”
  Is that comparison with or without the one trillion dollars we’ve spent on the oil wars in the Middle East over the past decade?

• Anonymous

  Tell me why it doesn’t make sense.

• Anonymous

  Sounds good, where do I fill my car up? Like I said its time to get REAL about the energy infrastructure in this state and country.

• Anonymous

  Good for them, next…

• Anonymous

  We could start by not tearing out dams.

• Anonymous

  No, I don’t . 
  So what happen to conservatives taking personal responsibility, 
  like for the things that they say and  the tone that they have set , dear Lady ? But it good you beginning to think. Thinking, goood start 4 u.  

• Anonymous

  Hey! While we’re at it, I’d really like to be able to reach into my pocket and ALWAYS be able to come out with loads of money! Can we demand that as well?

• Anonymous

  So do they run backwards … must the grid buy your surplus power… , so if you are not backwards , your own wind plant and solar cells can feed power in and money back out ? 

  You know, like in a real free market , so real a free market solution. 

• Anonymous

  Isn’t  that just like the Govenah and his business partners blaming Maine’s problems on high energy costs ? 

  Isn’t it them wishing, for something  just like that ? 

• Spammy McSpam

  $500,000000.00 million dollars? That’s a lot of millions.

• Anonymous

  Good news, but read the article.  The process is a long way from commercial and financila feasibility.  Besides, it may be a good supplemental fuel, and using a raw material literally going to waste, but not even Maine has enough cellulosic waste to satify all of our fuel needs.

• Patten_Pete

  I like was Steve Forbes had to say on this yesterday:

  “Should we keep tax loopholes for oil companies?” Obama asked. “Or should we use that money to give small-business owners a tax credit when they hire new workers? Because we can’t afford to do both.”
  What the president knows, but fails to divulge in making his case, is that U.S. oil and natural gas companies do not receive taxpayer subsidies. The provisions he’s targeting for repeal are the same tax credits and deductions available to a broad swath of other U.S. companies — including a domestic manufacturing credit and a measure to prevent double taxation on income earned abroad.
  http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66918.html

• Patten_Pete

  The amount of available gas in the U.S. is incredible and when this fad passes and the venture capitalists have found their next scam, people will look back at this time of snake oil and wonder what were we thinking.

• Anonymous

  “The economics make sense all around, according to those in the coalition.”
  If the economics made sense, we wouldn’t need a government mandate to force utilities to buy the electricity from sources that this coalition wants to dictate.  These groups are shameless in their self-interest.  Over 20% of the electricity in Maine is already produced from renewables.  It’s just that it’s not the renewable that THIS coalition wants. 

• Patten_Pete

  The first type of hydro I’d mandate would be in the form of waterboarding the elected officials who have made deals with the wind companies.

• Patten_Pete

  When one goes to Emily Figdor’s “Environment Maine’s” 2010 Form 990 and googles their phone number, it leads to:

  State Office:Maine PIRG39 Exchange Street #301Portland, ME 04101(207) 253-1965

  If one googles the address provided for another person listed on the 990 form, Matthew Davis (44 Winter Street, Boston) one comes to:
   
  Environmental Action
  http://www.environmental-action.org/about-us
   
  Of possible note on their site:
  Environmental Action is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization. Contributions or gifts to Environmental Action, Inc. are not deductible as charitable contributions for federal income tax purposes. Donations may be used for political purposes such as supporting or opposing candidates. No funds will be earmarked or reserved for any political purpose. A full description of its charitable programs and a copy of its latest financial report are available by writing to its financial department. NJ: Information filed with the Attorney General concerning this charitable solicitation may be obtained from the Attorney General of the State of New Jersey by calling 973-504-6215. Registration with the Attorney General does not imply endorsement. NY: A copy of the latest annual report of this organization may be obtained from the organization or from the State Attorney General’s Charities Bureau, 120 Broadway, NY, NY 10271. PA: Environmental Action, Inc.’s official registration and financial information may be obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State by calling toll free 800-732-0999. Registration does not imply endorsement. VA: The organization’s financial statement is available from the Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs in the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services upon request at their toll free number: 800-552-9963. WA: Financial information is available from the Secretary of State by calling toll free 800-332-4483.

  If you click on EM’s “Supporters” you will find one is called the Energy Foundation.

  http://www.environmentmaine.org/center/supporters

  At their site you will see they have offices in San Francisco and Bejiing.

  http://www.ef.org/home.cfm

  It is a fact that beginning about 40 years ago, enemies of America strategized that a way to bring America down was by turning environmentalism into a religion and suffocating our economy.

  I believe that when one sees mandates to use extraordinarily expenisve and almost useless energy sources, we are feeling the effects of that planning to hurt America. Some of their soldiers don’t evn know what they are taking part in.

  The good news is that the collective wisdom of average Americans is beating back the globalists’ warped plans and we are finally starting to drill for our own oil and gas again.

  Folks, the best days for America are still ahead of us. Ignore these gnats.

• Anonymous

  George Soros is invested in wind and also wants to see this nation suffer. He’s not invested in hydro.

• Patten_Pete

  North Dakota = Drilling for oil and gas = BOOM TIMES = 2% unemployment rate = $15.00 an hour for entry level workers at the Williston McDonald’s.

  These crumball carbonists don’t want us to drill and all that means is America ends up buying more fossil fuel from abroad where their extraction processes are less environmentally sound that those in the good old USA and all kinds of extra methane drilling byproduct goes into the atmosphere. And that gas has far more hear trapping qualities than their dreaded CO2, also known as plant food.

• Patten_Pete

  How about we the people don’t want you the Nanny touching our light switches?

• Patten_Pete

  NRCM = Now Raping Clearcutting Mountains

• Anonymous

  FYI. There are 3,412 BTU’s per kilowatt hour. There are 138,500 BTU’s per gallon of heating oil. So you need 40.592 kilowatt hours for the same energy as one heating oil gallon. On a price basis, heating oil has to rise to $6.09 per gallon to equal the cost of delivered electricity at 15 cents per kilowatt hour.

  Maine has consistently used less than 4% oil to generate electricity over the past several years because it is too expensive. Oil fired electricity generation is used solely as a safeguard or “peaking” unit when other generating sources cannot meet dispatchable demand (like wind).

  The windustry needs to increase the “renewable” standard “mandate” from 10% to 20% because the current public enthsiasm for switching to natural gas will drive wind power out of business. Natural gas is half the cost and emits half the polluants of oil. Maine can significantly reduce its pollutants and energy cost by finding ways to switch from heating oil to natural gas. Wind energy does neither but they rely on public ignorance of the energy sector to push through ineffective laws.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

  Ok logic check here. All fossil fuels are renewable!! 24/7/365 plants and animals die sink or pile up and they will become said fossil fuels.  This will go on as long as there is dirt plants and animals on earth.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

   The problem with that would be the #1 employer in Maine is Maine! The same gov that has driven every traditional industry out of the state with ultra high taxes and rules and regulations that make employers run to get across the border.

• Anonymous

  That should just about burry maine with the highest cost of electricity!

  That should just about bury Maine with the highest coat of
  electrical power. The wonderful wind turbines that cost 2 million for 6ookw
  will produce power at 30 cents a kw and will be lower when the government pays its
  share to give us lower cost  *(Angus King
  and his wind puts another screw in Maine) WAIT A MINUTE  oh ya I have seen in print that the govt. subsidies
  will reduce our costs.. WHO IS THE GOVT??

  If we can ever get our heads out of the sand and promote
  viable sources like water, coal and nuclear energy we can have low cost
  reliable energy!   

• Anonymous

  Lol…I should have pruuf read it!

• Anonymous

  You don’t believe in Nanny?  I’ll remember that the next time I hear you commenting on the need for noise reductions in windmills.

• Anonymous

  In the first six months of 2011, the top six oil companies made $78.3 billion in profit.  They also take $4.6 billion per year in subsidies (i.e tax credits, deductions, favorable lease terms for drilling on federal land, compensation for royalties paid to gain access to foreign oil fields, etc).  How big does Big Oil’s profit have to be before you are willing to let them stand on their own without treating them like they need a nanny to hold their hand?

• Patten_Pete

  A wind shill who probably drives a gas guzzler, hammering away at “Big Oil”, probably because focus group research tells you this is the pandering du jour hot button to use.

• Patten_Pete

  Start looking in the help wanted ads. Your gig is beginning to run its course.

• Anonymous

  Patten Pete:  A fossil fuel shill who never saw an oil subsidy that he didn’t like.

• Anonymous

  “Start looking in the help wanted ads…”

  A typical non-rebuttal from a fossil fuel lover who has a very limited number of valid arguments with which to debate the issue.

• Anonymous

  The article is wrong, wrong, wrong.  Maine people already have to buy 34% (35% next year) from renewable energy sources, the highest requirement in the nation by far.  This would make Mainers buy at least an additional 15%, depending on the wording.  It would also require utilities to spend millions on conservation by giving away money to people and businesses – all out of your electric rates. 

• Anonymous

  This article is wrong, wrong, wrong.  Maine people already have to buy 34% (35% next year) from renewable sources and that goes to 40% in a few years.  It’s the highest requirement in the nation. This measure adds to that.  It also requires utilities give away millions of dollars of our money to people and businesses to put in efficiency measures that they should be doing on their own.

• Anonymous

  The New York Times has reported in recent weeks that insiders within the industry itself are abuzz with the belief that estimates of available reserves are grossly exaggerated for two reasons: to increase the value of natural gas corporations and to convince the government to hand over ever increasing amounts of subsidies. The insider comments were recorded in industry emails, studies of thousands of gas wells, and in some cases, directly from whistleblowers within the industry who were bugged that competitors were exaggerating the amount of reserves and the economic viability of extracting those reserves in order to gain an edge in valuation. In any event, natural gas is finite.

  Also, if and when natural gas becomes the fuel of choice in the production of electricity, this will put additional demands on supply, which results in higher prices.

  Additionally, more and more citizens are becoming alarmed at the dangers of hydrofracking.  These techniques are already cited as the cause of some serious contamination of residential aquifers, which creates the probability that natural gas extraction will generate significant grass roots opposition, which also increases costs of production, and thus the price for the consumer.

• Anonymous

  I really hope you are kidding, Fossil Fuels take Millions of years to create. We will be out WAY before then

• Anonymous

  And sadly a lot of those people are actually struggling to find homes. 

• Anonymous

  Some of em look like they still may live with mommy and daddy and, consequently have no idea how much the average electricity bill is a month.

  Also, we use to have lots of nice, clean “renewable energy” from hydro projects around the state. But it seems to me that these same kinds of fools made us tear down all the dams.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7ARBFNYJAE23QMOBALXD7FM4W4 gempaint

  WIND has NO capacity.
  Solar panels are in expensive right now.
  WIND creates few jobs.
  Solar installation is a viable business, creating many jobs.
  WIND meeds transmission.
  Solar does not.

• Anonymous

  I want a flying donkey.  After that I want goose that lays gold eggs.  And after that….

• Anonymous

  Conservation and “clean” energy sources won’t do it alone (check out today’s BDN story about wind turbines in Frankfort).  Build a slew of nukes and forget about the mid-east problem, ugly/noisy windmills, dams, inefficient solar panels, and domestic oil production in beautiful locations.  Then spend the next century working on developing new technologies which will satisfy the worlds need for energy without pollution or necessitating a constant series of wars to support.

• Anonymous

  “Coalition wants 20% of Maine power from renewable energy sources”

  -Then pay for it yourselves!

• Anonymous

  well nice to see some intelligent life here!  you have it 100% correct!!

• Anonymous

  same with you thoughtcops!  2 in a row!  correct!!

• Anonymous

   That has nothing to do with this.

  Reality is the Cost per KWH is much cheaper with gas, hydro.  You also dont need spinning reserve, unlike wind when there is none and you have a peaking situation, say on a nice hot JUlY afternoon when everyone come home and turns on the AC, Oven and Tv on day with no wind.

  If Maine goes down the garden path and gets porked on Wind power, we will drive all the remaining industry out of the state because the generation price is way too high, but I guess we would have pretty windmills to look at

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  True, but that is a result of a huge economic boom. The market will meet the demand after a while.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  Let’s start by dimming the lights in the homes of those people who advocate this nonsense.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  Unplug your computer. You are using fossil fuel.

• Anonymous

  That should just about bury Maine with the highest coat of
  electrical power. The wonderful wind turbines that cast 2 million for 6ookw
  will produce power at 30 cents a kw and will be lower when the government pays its
  share to give us lower cost  *(Angus King
  and his wind puts another screw in Maine) WAIT A MINUTE  oh ya I have seen in print that the govt.
  subsidies will reduce our costs.. WHO IS THE GOVT??

  If we can ever get our heads out of the sand and promote
  viable sources like water, coal and nuclear energy we can have low cost
  reliable energy!   

• Anonymous

  These groups have no credentials as far as dealing with energy, even the Roofing company which installs solar panels are not going to be involved with any analysis. These people do not realize that pushing something like this through will bankrupt our state. We are trying to make energy cheaper here not more expensive, and if it does get more expensive we will see even more shutdowns and companies moving to mexico. Those Mexicans are more than happy to supply cheap electricity for jobs.

• Anonymous

  Wake up Maine and reject NRCM = Now Ravishing and Clear-cutting Mountaintops! Environmentalists do not stand on mountain tops and wear hard hats all the while promoting the destruction of Maine’s natural resources. 
  Wind turbines increase fossil fuel consumption & CO2 emission:
  http://www.clepair.net/windSchiphol.html

• Anonymous

  “If wind power is so cheap and profitable why arent private investors lining up in droves to build  them without raping the taxpayer for incentives and kick back schemes?” 

  Because the top six oil companies made $78.3 billion in profit.  They also take $4.6 billion per year in subsidies (i.e tax credits, deductions, favorable lease terms for drilling on federal land, compensation for royalties paid to gain access to foreign oil fields, etc) ? 

  So what is real unit cost of oil ? 

• Anonymous

  We may not, but I have to say, thinking of Paul’s remarks the other day — I’m fond of home rule. Really fond of it. I hate it when the federal government runs around telling me what’s best for my town (and now the state wants to try). But what I hate more than the federal government doing that is when my government sleeps in bed with terrorists in Saudi Arabia to get their oil. So, bring on the solar, the random weird technologies like this. Even the wind working half the time is better than funding terrorism by buying Saudi oil. If we don’t want 9/11 to happen again then we need to be self-sufficient.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

  Really they do? It is a continues process!  Or did you think they only make every million years? Maybe you should do a little fact checking.

  However it is possible to use all the oil that is available that is far away and there are reserves all over the globe and under the oceans. We have got  along time before we tap it all. This is way there is a problem the oil from the middle east was EASY and cheap. The oil crunch of the 70′s triggered the formation of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY who purpose when created was to REDUCE our dependence on foreign  fossil fuels. Another very expensive useless gov body.  We knew this would happen We have been begging to drill for 30 plus years but all we get is not there not there not there.

• Anonymous

  The blurry photo of the NRCM’er is appropriately emblematic of their blurry thinking. Tell me about saving a parcel of land NRCM, but when you leave your bailiwick and start talking about things you know not such as electricity and jobs, it’s like a mermaid sharing her expertise about shoes. How many of the folks at NRCM have ever even had real jobs?

• Anonymous

  Best comment on here.

• Patten_Pete

  NRCM = Nicey-poo Renewables Cost More

• Anonymous

  Well, what I do know, isthe  last time I saw one of Dylan Voorhees’s presentations promoting wind as the be all/end all renewable energy source to clean up carbon emissions, he had all kinds of nice little pie charts and polka-dotted maps showing where a job was created in Maine when a bolt was purchased at a Maine hardware store for a wind project. What I also noticed were no numbers, charts or graphs indicating the millions of dollars spent in foreign countries to foreign workers where the turbines are produced (at an approximate purchase price of 4 million dollars per turbine, according to Angus King at one of his pep rallies). There was also no chart or graph showing how much carbon emission took place producing those turbines in countries with very little manufacturing environmental protections in place, NOR how much carbon emission was produced shipping those enormous components to our shores.
  Is Dylan selling American jobs? Quasi-clean air? or Fuzzy math? Personally, I can’t believe a word he says, nor will I become one of his disciples.

• Anonymous

  Energy conservation is a good thing.  You should try it sometime.

• Anonymous

  Do you also ever sit down and calculate how much carbon emissions were produced in the manufacture of your car?  Your refrigerator?  Your TV?  Your computer?  Do you ever ponder how much pollution was created when the steel in your house was shipped to your front yard. I doubt it.  Have you ever bothered to look up how many American jobs are involved in the manufacture of wind turbines and their components? I doubt that, also.  Many fossil fuel lovers will go through all sorts of rhetorical gymnastics to justify our nation’s ongoing reliance on hydrocarbons, while not lifting a finger to try to improve the situation.

• Anonymous

  The powerful fossil fuel conglomerates have seen to it that there is little that any of us can do in today’s society without a reliance on their products.   The difference between you and me is that you approve of the situation, and I would prefer to see the development of alternatives.

• Anonymous

  “You also don’t need spinning reserve, unlike wind…”

  Spinning reserves existed long before wind power entered the picture, and would exist today with or without the existence of windmills.  Our energy system requires backup for all forms of electricity generation, including gas fired generators which could malfunction, or hydro which could be impacted by drought conditions, for example.

  Also, why do you believe that the exorbitant costs associated with military protection of fossil fuel sources should not be factored into the per unit costs of producing power with those sources?

• Anonymous

  Once again, the illustrious Billy weighs in not with a reasoned argument that can stand up to scrutiny, but instead offers more insults that mean nothing other than to reveal a shallow intellect.

• Patten_Pete

  To claim that we are in Afghanistan for oil is a huge leap in logic. But then again, you are without logic. Speaking of the military, I’d say that if Maine were ever to depend ona fleet of offshore deep water turbines (ain’t gonna happen) they would be extraordinarily vulnerable to attack.

  Now if the enviro-nazis would let us frack and drill domestically, we wouldn’t ever even need to leave North America for oil and gas.

  You folks are pieces of work. Man oh man.

• Patten_Pete

  The reason we use fossil fuel is not some conspiracy you are suggesting. It’s simply that these energy dense fuels work and work all the time on demand. Wind doesn’t work. Pathetic. You guys are in full desperation mode and don’t think it’s been lost on us. Hey, I hear the Williston, ND McDonald’s is paying $15 an hour. Let us know if you need a reference.

• Patten_Pete

  The difference is his car works and turbines don’t.

• Anonymous

  From the Associated Press, August 31, 2005:

  “CORONADO, Calif. — President Bush answered growing antiwar protests yesterday with a fresh reason for US troops to continue fighting in Iraq: protection of the country’s vast oil fields, which he said would otherwise fall under the control of terrorist extremists.”

  I suppose anyone who would rely on two-time GOP presidential candidate loser Steve Forbes for talking points would be something of an expert on huge leaps of logic.

• Patten_Pete

  This Voorhees person has boasted about the 300 companies in Maine that have benefitted from the building of wind projects. What he fails to point out is we have about 35,000 companies in the state. The temporary revenues at the 300 companies (construction, lawyers and environmental group Directors of Greenwashing & Prostitution) are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the lost revenues when the other 34,700 non-parasite businesses incur increases in electricity and transmission costs, to say nothing of the coming tourism losses as longtime vacationers go elsewhere after their favorite spots have been compromised by the roaring, thumping and flashing of this industrial junk.

  Outfits like NRCM (Now Really Clipping Mainers) and Greed & Greed are dreaming if they think the good people of Maine will not see though their self-serving desperation move.

  Desperate tactics like this 20% mandate herald the beginning of the end for this parasitizing “industry”.

  What a joke.

• Anonymous

  By the way, wind energy is one of the reasons that North Dakota’s economy is booming right now, according to the U.S. Department of Energy:

  “Wind energy projects create new jobs in rural communities in manufacturing, transportation, and project construction.  New projects in the Great Plains prompted Denmark’s LM Glasfiber to open a rotor blade manufacturing plant in North Dakota. Wind turbine tower and component manufacturing plants have created new jobs in several states, including Washington, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Wisconsin.”

  I’m sure you’ll find a way to disregard the wind industry’s contributions to prosperity, though, desperate as you are to prop up your finite fossil fuels. And for the record, fossil fuels will not be working very well when, in the not-too-distant-future, they inevitably run out.

• Anonymous

  In Spain, wind power covers more Spanish demand for electricity than does coal, and at times approaches 50 percent of overall production.  That evidence would seem to indicate that your claim is false about turbines not working.

• Patten_Pete

  Yeah, and Excedrin sales in Maine are boosting our economy from those reading your desperate postings.

• Anonymous

  Another brilliant rebuttal from Patten Pete.  

• Anonymous

  All those throngs of tourists who battle the bumper to bumper traffic, the ozone alerts, and the wall to wall people to visit places like Acadia are suddenly going to throw up their hands in disgust because of some windmills that they likely will never see due to the remote locations. Yogi Berra said it best: “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”

• Patten_Pete

  From:

   http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/wind_energys_ghosts_1.html

  “What do we do with all this industry that we have been creating with subsidies that now is collapsing? The bubble is too big. We cannot continue pumping enough money. …The President of the Renewable Industry in Spain (wrote a column arguing that) …the only way is finding other countries that will give taxpayers’ money away to our industry to take it and continue maintaining these jobs.” That “other country” is the United States of America.

• Patten_Pete

  I guess you missed the memo on tourism being a huge industry, not to mention a facilitator of profitable in-migration of businesses and solopreneurs.

  And it’s the remoteness, an increasingly rare occurrence, that brings many of the tourists, such as the sportmen that travel the world over to the Grand Lake area where you guys have just been handed your first of many defeats.

• Anonymous

  My point is, you have no proof that the bazillion tourists that come to Maine will actually be deterred by windmills.

  As for “sportsmen” from away… I know how much they “love” Maine.  Here’s an excerpt of how some of them treat our wilderness:

  “A 39-year-old man from Tuckasegee, N.C., was recovering Thursday at Down East Community Hospital after he was bitten earlier in the day by a bear while hunting in Marion Township.

  Paul “Pudge” Lyndon McFalls said the entire experience felt like it flashed by in seconds and he knew he was lucky to be only minimally injured.

  McFalls and his family have hunted for bear Down East for seven years and drove here last week, bringing their hunting dogs with them. When the hunting party of four brothers and four nephews entered the woods at 6 a.m. Thursday, McFalls was hoping to bag the fourth bear of his lifetime. But he never expected to be relating the day’s events from a hospital bed by noon.

  McFalls’ uncle, Leonard “Doc” Luker, said he saw the bear first, just before 8 a.m. “But I couldn’t get a shot,’’ he said. That’s when the bear headed toward McFalls’ position.In a thick Southern accent, McFalls recalled that his dogs “turned on a big bear,” which he pronounced “bar.” The bear kept circling around and around, trying to shake the group’s hunting dogs, which included Plott hounds, redbone coon hounds, and Walker coon hounds.

  “The bear headed into the swamp to get away,” McFalls said. “Then he turned by me, about 20 feet away from me. I shot him and it knocked him down. He rolled over and I could see he was moving his legs. I wanted to protect the dogs, who were swarming all around him, so I stepped closer.”

  McFalls said when he was about four feet from the bear, it suddenly got up on all four feet. “It was growling and it looked enormous. I shot it two more times and then it charged me and got me by my leg,” he said. McFalls said at that point he also suddenly realized that he had an empty gun.

  “It grabbed my leg with its front paws and mouth and pinned me against a tree. It felt like it was pulling my leg off. I fell backwards and it began shaking my leg like a dog with a bone.”

  Somehow, McFalls was able to get a bullet into his .30-06 rifle and shoot one last time. The bear fell dead.

  “I looked down at my leg and saw the blood and got on the radio. ‘He got me,’ I yelled. ‘I need help.’”

  The bear had bitten through McFalls’ leather boot in at least two places. It also bit him higher up, near the calf.

  McFalls’ fellow hunters and two guides from Puckerbrush Guide Services out of East Machias — Wayne Gatcomb and Bill Dereszewski — came to his aid.

  “I was screaming like a little girl,” McFalls admitted with a laugh.

  ~BDN, September 29, 2011

• Patten_Pete

  I do not work for the fossil fuel industry or any business related to it or that receives any benefit from it.  But you will never admit you are in the wind industry.

• Anonymous

  C’mon Pete.  American Thinker is a right-wing rag that idolizes the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. How do you expect anyone to believe that you will get anything but ultra-rightist propaganda from that source?

• Anonymous

  Let me tell you something.  I didn’t even entertain support for wind power until I started digging into the topic to see why you and your pals are so arrogant and insulting in your treatment of pro-wind Mainers.  And whether or not you are a shill for fossil fuels, you still have not seen an oil subsidy that you didn’t like, which is the central point here that you cannot avoid.

• Anonymous

  Jobs and money. Certainly the most important thing to most families. BUT…”jobs” is the buzz word in most slanted advertising for new laws, permitting, referendums, etc. Casinos and wind turbine projects are just 2 such issues. We need to assess our future,as a result of permitting, laws, etc., based on the actual issue and its long term value and effect, now purely on “jobs”, many of which are short term and for people from away, who soon go home. Cost/ benefits analysis should be required for all such projects. What is it going to cost monetarily, morally, socially, environmentally and what for the long time are the benefits?

• Anonymous

  Oh yeh, like deregulating the banks… that worked wonderfully well, didn’t it? Likewise FRACKING for natural gas, which is bring new supplies of natural gas to innumerable homes: now if we could only get that gas to stop coming out of their plumbing!

  Luddites like theboogesterisback appear to be incapable of rational thinking: they simply repeat the talking poiunt of the vested interests they kowtow to, just like of current governor Mr. LePage. There is a reason LePage won with only 39% of the vote: nobody actually wanted him in the driver’s seat! And lest there are any doubters left, he has clearly shown his allegiance to Wall Street and corporate America. As for the little guys like you and me, the middle class, the elderly, and the poor? Lots of luck with that buddy: you’re all on your own!

• Anonymous

  Lifetime_Mainah, Wind Shill and Left_Wingah.
  Oil creates real power, renewables  create realtime money waste when applied to grid scale use and subsidy waste, we cannot afford.
  The argument is not philosophical, it is financial and scientific.
  Neither science nor finacial analysis has  been applied to “renewable ” farces to date in Maine.
  Solyndra, Beacon Power , First Wind, and on…all farces , WASTEFUL  AND TAX PAYER ABUSIVE.
  And , oh so sorry, LePage gets it and will be more vocal soon with his realistic energy plans(natural gas lines anyone?).
  Bye, Bye, Blow Toys and wind’s self-serving supporters, 2012.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  I’ve been practicing it and fitting my own home to conserve energy for 20 years.

• Liberal Soup N Crackers

  I approve of being energy independent as a nation and that includes wise investment in fossil fuels, exploration and opening up our resources to accomplish it. There are no viable alternatives at the current time to replace this. That does not mean we do not research and invest. Instead, we take the decision making on these matters out of the hands of irresponsible Greennics and take the bridle off our business community to tackle the job.

• Anonymous

  some one needs to take lepage to the woodshed i volunteer