Verso to mothball Bucksport paper machine, lay off 125

The Verso Corp. paper mill in Bucksport as seen from the waters of the Eastern Channel of the Penobscot River
The Verso Corp. paper mill in Bucksport as seen from the waters of the Eastern Channel of the Penobscot River
Posted Oct. 11, 2011, at 9:38 a.m.
Last modified Oct. 12, 2011, at 5:24 a.m.
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BUCKSPORT, Maine — Verso Paper Corp. officials announced plans Tuesday to eliminate 125 positions at the Bucksport mill and to permanently shut down one of the mill’s paper machines in response to high production costs and weak demand for lightweight paper.

The job cuts will be effective Oct. 23 and likely will involve a combination of voluntary and involuntary layoffs, according to company officials. Verso employs more than 700 people at the Bucksport mill as well as nearly 900 at a Jay facility. The Jay mill was not affected by Tuesday’s announcement.

Verso spokesman Bill Cohen said the papermaking machine slated to be shut down in Bucksport as well as two at a mill in Sartell, Minn., are the most expensive to operate for the company. The No. 2 machine in Bucksport dates back to the 1930s, although it has undergone extensive updates and upgrades over the years. The machine recently was shut down for roughly nine months because of market conditions.

Additionally, the market for coated groundwood paper — lightweight paper used in catalogs and magazines — has been weak and shows little sign of recovering, Cohen said. After the shutdown of the No. 2 machine, Verso still will operate three machines in Bucksport.

“Publishers and papers are looking at heavier-weight paper,” Cohen said. “We came to the conclusion that these machines just didn’t work in this environment, so we made the difficult decision to shut down.”

Verso’s plans to permanently stop production on the two machines in Sartell, Minn., mill will result in 175 layoffs. Company representatives were meeting with employees at both mills on Tuesday to explain the voluntary severance package.

Duane Lugdon, a United Steelworkers union representative based in Augusta who works with the two local USW chapters in Bucksport, said the announcement did not come as a surprise given the financial challenges facing the paper industry.

Union representatives plan to meet with Verso officials this Thursday to discuss how the layoffs will be carried out. In addition to the USW, three other unions — the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, and the Office and Professional Employees International Union — represent employees at the Bucksport mill.

“A lot of folks are going to be filled with anxiety until we find out what is going on,” said Lugdon. “Obviously, we have got to do the best we can to make sure those people up there are taken care of.”

An individual who answered the phone at the IBEW Local Union 1777 office in Bucksport declined to comment on the layoffs.

Members of Maine’s congressional delegation expressed dismay at news of the layoffs and pledged to do what they could at the federal level to assist the workers losing their jobs.

“This economic challenge is concerning to me and to the entire Bucksport community,” U.S. Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, said in a statement. “I assured the company I stand ready to continue to assist the hardworking and dedicated workers in Bucksport in every way possible.”

Paper mills in Maine and across the country have struggled in recent years to remain profitable in the face of shrinking demand because of the recession and market changes as well as increased competition from mills around the globe, especially in China.

In its latest financial statements, filed in August, Verso reported a net loss of $24.3 million in the second quarter. That was an improvement over the same period a year ago, when Verso had a net loss of $44.3 million. Verso reported a net loss of $68.9 million for the first six months of 2011.

Robert Rice, a University of Maine professor of wood science, said mills in Maine such as Verso’s Bucksport facility specialize in higher-quality, heavier coated paper used in publishing. Market conditions in sales and the cost of fiber locally make it difficult for Maine mills to compete when it comes to the thin, lightweight coated paper often used in catalogs or inserts, he said.

“That market is very difficult to compete in for a state or a mill, in general, that makes high-quality coated papers,” said Rice, who conducts research on and teaches courses about the pulp and paper industry. “So it doesn’t surprise me that if they were having problems with a particular product that it is the lightweight, coated groundwood.”

Dave Milan, economic development director for the town of Bucksport, said Verso representatives have talked openly about the high cost of running the No. 2 machine and the market challenges.

“We have known for a long time that the machine’s days were probably going to be numbered and, if it did close, that we would lose about 125 jobs,” Milan said. “Even though you know the loss of 125 jobs is a possibility, when you finally hear it, it still takes the wind out of your sails.”

At the same time, the company has continued to invest in and modernize the Verso plant in recent years in an effort to remain competitive, which Milan said is a positive sign. He said it was unclear Tuesday how many employees will be out of work versus how many may retire or leave the mill due to attrition. But Milan said the town would work with laid-off millworkers who need assistance.

The news from Verso adds to other job losses announced in Maine over the last week. On Monday, Barber Foods in Portland announced it was laying off 71 workers. On Friday, Global Contact Services abruptly laid off 65 employees at its call center in Pittsfield and closed the offices there.

The Verso news also comes at a time when the company and the unions are working to complete a new contract. Employees at the mill have been working under the terms of the old contract since it expired on April 30.

Cohen said the contract negotiations and Tuesday’s decision were entirely unrelated, and Lugdon with the USW said he has no reason to believe that members will reject the new contract during a vote scheduled for the coming weeks.

“But obviously that is up to the members,” Lugdon said.

Verso said shutting the No. 2 paper machine at the Bucksport mill will reduce the company’s annual coated groundwood capacity by 90,000 tons or about 10 percent. The shutdown of the two paper machines in Minnesota will reduce Verso’s production by roughly 103,000 tons.

The Verso shutdowns will result in a charge of about $22 million, expected to occur primarily in the fourth quarter of 2011. The company said that includes $13 million for severance and benefit costs, $7 million in accelerated depreciation of property and equipment and $2 million in other costs.

“The decision to permanently reduce production at Bucksport and Sartell was difficult and we are mindful of the impact it will have on the affected employees and their families,” Verso President and CEO Mike Jackson said in a statement.

Verso’s stock price was down 4 percent Tuesday at the close of trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

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  • Anonymous

    I wonder, is our glib Governor taking credit for all of the jobs we are losing as well as the handful he claims he has “created?’  The proof is in the pudding isn’t it?  

  • Anonymous

    Another nail in the Paper Industries coffin.

  • http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

    And China is laughing as they dance on that coffin

  • Anonymous

    The fact you seem to let slip by you is that President Obama who had all the power in his hands let slip by an opportunity for the economy to recover in 2009-2010.  Many economists are now predicting, that because our GDP has fallen, that by election time unemployment will be about 10% (new stimulus or not) Figure on 12% UI no matter who is elected the new President by 2014.  

  • Anonymous

    Want jobs? Leave Maine. As Senator Durbin likes to say….. vote with your feet.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Yeah!

    The Gop is doing a Great Job Destroying Obamas bid for reelection:

     and taking the whole Country along with it!

    All the while asking for more give aways to their whealthy corporate Lobbiest Buddies!

  • Anonymous

    This is exactly why the American people need to “Occupy Wall Street”–because powerful rich forces at the top of the food chain are parasites who feed off the suffering of the rest of us.

  • Anonymous

    Increase the tariffs on coated groundwood paper coming in from China and see if that helps put people back to work. Or just shrug your shoulders and blame it on the unions.

  • Anonymous

    Obama vs Bush, Bush vs Obama — both the Dems and the Reps are corrupt.

  • Anonymous

    More layoffs.  Thanks LePage.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

    One has to wonder what world you post from.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    In a statement Tuesday, Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, called the paper mill an “economic anchor” for the Bucksport area.

    To bad she helped cause the Ship to “pull it up”!

  • Anonymous

    Obama vs. Bush, Bush vs. Obama.  Both sides scream at the other, both are corrupt.

  • Anonymous

    Are you saying you think George W. Bush did a good job?  Did he or did he not enforce GOP ideology.  

  • Anonymous

    A. How do you know that Obama’s policies didn’t prevent a depression?
    B. Good thing everybody is out to lynch Roxanne Quimby while they wait for the paper companies to bail out every declining mill town in Maine.

  • Anonymous

    Are you saying you think George W. Bush did a good job?  Did he or did he not enforce GOP ideology. 

  • http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

    Using your measurement of rich forces at the top of the food chain being parasites: What about “Occupy Union Halls”.  Unions sure didn’t do much to help these 125 people losing their jobs.

  • Anonymous

    Are you saying you think George W. Bush did a good job?  Did he or did he not enforce GOP ideology. 

  • Anonymous

    Wall Street destroyed our economy through cheating, lying, and treachery–by which I mean they bet against the recommendations they gave to their own investors.  Tens of millions of Americans are still suffering from what Wall Street did.  And Wall Street got away with it, was bailed out by TARP to the tune of 800 billion, and is sitting pretty.

    You’re right, though, about unions–the big corporate interests in this country have attacked and crippled the unions to the point where they are being destroyed–the people’s defense against billionaire greed.

  • Anonymous

    What a tough time of year to lose a job.  Most of us live paycheck to paycheck, we’re just one paycheck away from poverty.  We are a two person household with FOUR jobs between us, three full time, one part time and it’s so hard to make ends meet!  We have a mortgage on a modest home, one car payment, one nearly 11 year old car and no credit cards.  We pay cash or wait until we can afford it.  Plus we regularly help out a family member with needs.  Why does living have to be so hard?  No wonder there is so much mental illness, life is STRESSFUL!  I am sick with worry about heating our home this winter.  There’s no time or energy for another job.  I wish somebody had the answer and would follow through.  These poor families, my heart goes out to them.  Please Lord, keep them housed, keep them warm, keep them fed.  How difficult to raise a happy family with this added stress.  Now children will suffer, tempers will be short, it will affect every aspect of their lives.  This is all just so sad. 

  • Anonymous

    If the democratic senate and congress had never envisioned NAFTA back in 1989 and Clinton had never signed it in 1994. we wouldn’t be no where near the mess we are in now.

    REPEAL NAFTA

  • Anonymous

    Or better yet, STOP groundwood paper coming in from China!

  • Anonymous

    indeed, they are one in the same, both “progressives”

  • Anonymous

    Come on, everybody knows this is Paul Lepage’s and George Bushe’s fault!

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    NAFTA does not have anything to do with this shutdown. Publications papers is a dying segment of the industry and has been on this path for the past 20 years. IP exited publication papers for this very reason. This is all a function of falling demand for coated groundwood used in magazine publications. 25 years ago magazine sales were at all time highs. Today, the internet has eaten into its very core. The same is true of newsprint. To survive, Verso as well as GNP will have to reinvent themselves, probably within another segment of the industry.

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    How so?

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    China is not the problem with coated groundwood. Our biggest competitors are in Europe but the problem is not competition in the industry. It is technology shift. You are using the “problem” now to read this.

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    stupidity at work.

  • Anonymous

    I challenge you to use your brain and produce an argument worthy of the reasoning skills you possess.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe we should stop buying whatever coated groundwood we do from China–every dollar to China supports a police state that thinks our Bill of Rights is totally wrong.  It also supports manufacturing in China, which takes away jobs.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with you.

    But we need to be on a level playing field when it comes to the manufacturing industry.  There will always be a need for paper and wood products.  

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    Asia is not a significant producer of coated groundwood because they lack a good source of the long fiber softwood needed to meet paper specs for this grade. As I stated, China, Wall Street, Democrats, Republicans or any other political nemesis you want to imagine have nothing to do with the market problems Verso is facing. This is all about technology shift.

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    You have no knowledge or understanding of the business economics at work in this matter.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks LePage, where are you and your jobs for Maine…..65 jobs in Pittsfield lost, 125 in Bucksport within 2 days…..oh but you kid still has a great paying job! 

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    Paper products will always have a place in our economy. They are practical, economical uses of renewable resources. However, not all paper segments are going to remain attractive or profitable. At some point, niche markets develop and mills have to change to survive. Bucksport is one of those mills as is Rumford and East Millinocket. NAFTA is not going to change that reality.

  • Anonymous

    I think WTO has also played a role.

  • Anonymous

    You claim–with no reference.

    It’s not just about coated groundwood.  It’s about cheapest price for paper.  If you google “paper suppliers in china”  there are plenty of them, as you can find here:

    http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN/paper.html

    Looks like China is a strong competitor.

    If people can buy paper made in China cheaper than paper made in the US, it will hurt Verso in Maine, right? 

  • Anonymous

    Supply a reference or an argument, or stop wasting space.  Anyone can say to me–and many have–that I am a fool.  It means nothing unless you can step up to the plate.  So far, you’ve done nothing but use your anonymity to make cowardly and unsupported claims.

  • Anonymous

    Probably the majority of layoffs will be newly hired former Katahdin Paper employees that have migrated there for opportunity…so ironic the cycle…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Regina-Hosebeast/100002095287763 Regina Hosebeast

    I think the auction price for the Jed Prouty just went down.

  • Anonymous

    seems to me that paper machines in maine were shutting down in the 1980′s when the great “conservative” was in the white house.  right wing smoke and mirrors.

  • Anonymous

    ?progresive?….where’s the progress then.

  • Anonymous

    verso has no idea that lepage is governor and that the state house is controlled by republicans.  jobs in maine do not disappear when neocons are running the show.

  • Anonymous

    The reason this is happening has nothing to do with Wall Street. China has an absolute and comparative advantage to us when it comes to making paper. Compound that with the advancing digital age and it’s only inevitable. Adapt or die.

  • Anonymous

    Too bad they can’t switch to toilet paper………they could use some extra in Washington (as the  result of the only thing they do there for us requires a lot for clean up)…………………………..  

  • Anonymous

    I gotta say he’s right Spruce. The article even states ‘demand’ as the issue. We all pick up a keyboard and mouse today in place of newspapers and magazines that were once printed at mills like these. Even and especially in our schools, textbooks….once a huge demand for  coated groundwood paper,  have been traded in for laptops.  The only thing keeping phone directories in place is the advertising. Its only a matter of time before nothing is put in print anymore.

  • Anonymous

    right wing economic policies of favoring corporations and the wealthy at the expense of the middle class has wiped out demand for many products and services.  of course, you’ll never hear that sad fact of life being reported on fox news.

  • Anonymous

    how long before we see the Millinocket name in the paper again for this very subject.  The paper industry is struggling and as indicated in this article not just in Maine.  until this country quits sending jobs over seas we are destined to see more headlines such as these.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3ESJPP2RRNWCNJU6DSQBDHD6WA 'TARD!

    LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!! LIBERALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONSERVATIVES!!!!!!!!!

    For God’s sake, shut up already.

  • Anonymous

    republicans love corporations.  corporations hate unions.  republicans hate unions.  

  • Anonymous

    … as are internet content providers, television advertisers, radio, etc.  Essentially anything that was once printed on paper but is now available on other media.  Paper is in many ways going the way of the buggy whip.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q4AP5EYCYRCGZGIJGWI6TLIUEA Tom

    More Hopey Changey! Four More Years! Four More Years!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q4AP5EYCYRCGZGIJGWI6TLIUEA Tom

    Or go up…you could turn it into a Section 8 ghetto.

  • Anonymous

    no mention of bush sr. and nafta?  how about gingrich and nafta, gatt, and wto?  more right wing smoke and mirrors.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q4AP5EYCYRCGZGIJGWI6TLIUEA Tom

    OMG! I’m in! I’m packing now…could you please send me a plane ticket…and an iPad2, a box of condoms, a bag of weed, a set of drums, a tent, and knit me a sleeping bag? Thanks, Spruce! You my BFF!

  • Anonymous

    First of all the coater in Millinocket has been gone for years.  Second of all, the East Millinocket mill is restarting, not the Millinocket mill.  And if you hold your breath on that one I hope your life insurance is paid in full!

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    This is why I suggested earlier that you do not have a good grasp of the issues involved. China and other Asian producers have a lot of capacity in various grades of paper products but little capacity of coated groundwood. Coated groundwood uses long fiber softwood such as spruce and fir for sheet strength. This is why newsprint and coated publication papers along with SC grades are produced more in northern climates here and in Europe than anywhere else. Southern pine can be used for coated publication papers but it is used predominantly in freesheet papers (groundwood free). China is not a player in these markets. As far as Verso in concerned it is about little more than coated groundwood They are producers of coated groundwood and SC papers.

    As for references, you can quote me as a reference. I am more than qualified to speak to the issue. I was intimately familiar with Champion International’s Publication Papers division that at the time included Bucksport, Sartell and the now defunct Deferiet Mill. I’ve worked professionally in publication grade papers for 18 of 22 years in the industry. I’ve worked and managed resources in four separate mills including two coated pub mills, a printing and writing papers mill and currently a brown kraft producer.

    As for your last question, if I purchase a carton of copy paper manufactured in Asia I have not affected any aspect of Verso’s business structure at Bucksport or Sartell. Actually, when China purchases pulp they are in effect helping to sustain pulp prices which in turn directly affect paper prices. It is a far more complex business arrangement than you might suppose.

  • Anonymous

    Wow it was hard enough when East Mill closed to go from $15 an hour to $369 a week unemployment. I can’t imagine how hard it will be going from $22 to $33 an hour to $369!! Yea article fails to mention they are the highest paid Mill in Maine!! I’d play my violin for their pity party but…. I had to pawn it!!

  • Anonymous

    Chp Sticks is where its at….Export them to China..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SPRR3RCM3FM6XC5T2CPUZGC2ZU Dana

    It amazes me every time a business lays off workers that a lot of people blame Bush, Obama, Republicans, democrats, countries, corporations, unions, and a long list of other excuses. In this case it is the demand for magazine stock paper. People are not buying magazines like years ago. A part of business is adapting to the changing situation. Newsprint paper plants are in the same boat. Newspaper circulation is declining. You will see the same complaining when the military decides not to use HUMVEEs anymore and MMA at Loring has to layoff workers. Businesses have to think ahead and just not the now. Workers need to do the same thing.

  • Anonymous

    China doesnt even have enough wood to make chop sticks…..

  • Anonymous

    Man that sucks for these people

  • Anonymous

    125 jobs in Bucksport. 71 jobs in Portland. 65 jobs in Pittsfield. Good grief and it is only Tuesday. What are we going to do? Oh I know let’s start pointing fingers at each other . Is it the liberals or conservatives fault that Verso makes a product that apparently is not in demand. I am sure we will hear about both sides being to blame. But rather then look at the negative let’s look at the positive side. With the number 2 machine in Bucksport shut down it will mean that there will be more logs for the other mills that our Governor has been telling us are having problems getting enough logs. Another positive is that there will be more people available to work at Fisher Engineering who with a 91 percent turn over rate seems to be having a problem getting workers. I am sure that there will be a few welders involved in the 125 losing their jobs in Bucksport. Maybe even Bangor Savings Bank will be able to find a worker or two from the Bucksport mill who will come up to Green Light or Street Light or whatever her name is Light who claims that the bank can not find good help. I see that our girls (Suzie Collins and Mrs. McKernan) have chimed in with their usual worthless bs.  Speaking of Mrs. McKernan I see that things seem to be going well for her. Yesterday there was an article about her raising over $3 million so far for her re election bid. Someone must feel she is doing a fantastic job. A few months ago when Barber Foods announced that it was being bought out they also told us that the new company was going to be investing millions. I guess those millions just aren’t going to be invested in Maine. Yesterday when I read the article about the 65 jobs being lost in Pittsfield I couldn’t help but notice the names of the companies that Global Contact Services list as clients. Bank of America, Wells Fargo, JP Morgan Chase, Citicorp. aren’t those the companies that we have been referring to as the job creators.? You know the ones we can’t think of taxing. Getting back to  these companies who are either closing, moving out of state or shutting down machines leaving our fellow Mainers without a job. What in hell is wrong with them don’t they know that Maine is open for business? We even have a sign that says so.

  • Anonymous

    Wait until Bucksport loses property tax from the mills.  It’s gonna happen.   Ooooooweeeeeeeee!

  • Anonymous

    google “paper suppliers in China” and a lot comes up.

  • Anonymous

    Read the rest of the threads, if you want more evidence.  Better yet, see the movie, Inside Job.  Or maybe (gasp) read the book, Winner Take All Politics”

  • Anonymous

    It’s the same in Augusta. Whether its dems or repubs, they both worry about their own skins and to he!! with the rest of us.

  • Anonymous

    yeah, where are all of the lepage cheerleaders on these pages?  the job busting policies of the right are starting to hit close to home.   

  • Anonymous

    Not one president, not on governor, not one political party will change the course of our finicial crisis.  This problem has been accumulating for years and it’s going to take years to recover. My heartaches for these people loosing there job, I’ve been there and I know the fear these people are facing.  Thank God I had my faith in Jesus Christ to carry me through.   
    Whether we won’t to accept it or not this country is under the judgement of a righteous God.  We have taken Him out of every aspect of lives.  We have a holocost currently in our land, of over 53 million babies being aborted since 1973.  God hates the shedding of innocent blood.  We’ve take prayer out of schools and look what are schools are now, war zones.  And so many other areas God is not allowed in our country.     2 Chronicles 7:14,” If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.  I am NOT saying these people are under judgement, I imply our entire country is facing this.  Lets turn back to God, let him heal our land once again.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe Quimby can turn it into a “National Park”

  • Anonymous

    Pluse the banks woun’t help you out with your payment lowering the rate I pay 1,284.22 and only 245.13 goes to what I owe the rest is interest.

  • Anonymous

    Where are the jobs

  • Anonymous

    Plenty of blame to go around… maybe we just need to take our country back.  Our founding father’s are rolling over in their graves.  If they were here, they’d be leading the revolution (again).  Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…..  Wall Street demonstrators- they aren’t just some random hippie/homeless/bum folk- they are us, all of us, but demonstrating is not enough.  Obviously we have no leaders, so this has to be grass-roots.  Get involved, or else you are just a whiner.

  • Anonymous

    Yes and people will lose their home because banks in bucksport won’t help out with lowering the interest rate. you have to refinance inorder to do that and we don’t have the money or the value of the home where they were when you took the loan out. lower the rates so we can still make payment you just won’t get alot of interest money.

  • Anonymous

    They need to stop sending business over sea and keep the work here in USA. And we need to stop helping other country’s out help the people in the USA.

  • Anonymous

    This is terrible news.  It should also serve as a reminder to everyone that these paper mill jobs are largely over – as is the demand for paper.

  • Anonymous

    Already having the wood there…..couldn’t they start a wood pellet business and put these people back to work?????

  • Anonymous

    To take a page out of the anti-Obama crowd…………How’s that LePage change workin’ out for ya?

  • Anonymous

    Time for a reality check………   Most people are NOT millworkers in Bucksport but yet the millworkers can deal with the cost of living adjustment ok…… (they get paid alot more money than normal working class people in the Bucksport area….   what  20 something dollars per hour? 
    All other working class people cannot get any raise to accomodate for the cost of living increase!! Everyone thinks just because you live in Bucksport you are automatically a “millworker” and yet the prices are a lot higher in Bucksport because it is a mill town. The ones that are NOT the millworkers suffer here……….   I wish EVERBODY could make 20 something dollars per hour…. The town might be a nicer place….

  • Anonymous

    Leaving.

  • Anonymous

    Not all of us have that privilege, to just sit on the ship and watch it go down, or be further damaged.

  • Anonymous

    Paper industry is dead in Maine.  There will be a few sputters of life but its time to retool Mainers with skill sets that are needed in today’s global economy.  The world is passing Maine by.

  • Anonymous

    Are you actually one of the few people who would admit that they would vote for the Blamer/Campaigner in Chief again?

  • Anonymous

    FYI there are plenty of jobs out there. You either got to be experienced, take a “test”for certain employers or  get drug tested for a minimum wage job .  People would rather sit around and collect of our state or be disabled rather than have a minimum wage job that you can’t even live off from or cannot pass the test.  If you haven’t done a specific job then you are not experienced and the employers will not consider you for employment.  Why?  Because they may have to train someone….   That is BS!!!!  People need jobs, employers are the ones that won’t hire, they will wait for certain people to come along before they hire, while the ones who really need jobs suffer…….

  • Anonymous

    My portfolio is doing well.  Why don’t you try working at building a portfolio instead of wasting the energy bitching.  Scfrew the 99% I want to be a 1%er

  • Anonymous

    Didn’t see Steve Jobs bringing in any unions.  For a Lib he was a very ruthless business man.

  • Anonymous

    Paper is the past

  • Anonymous

    We really do need people like you in this world watchdog. You make the rest of us look good!

  • Anonymous

    Finally a detailed and interesting answer, one that I learned a good amount from about grades of paper product.  Even if this is a case of lower demand based solely on changes in technology–and I’m not convinced it is that simple–I still bet there are rich executives at Verso who claim they are simply following the laws of the market and acting “efficiently”–while they make huge amounts of money and these workers in Bucksport and their families are in big trouble. 

    Efficiency has totally replaced decency in this country.  And I am tired of hearing that there is nothing we can do about it–that we are all hostage and slave to market forces. 

    It’s not that simple.  Decency has to come back and replace so-called “efficiency.”

  • Anonymous

    Maybe it is simply a question of lowered demand due to technology.  Still, execs at the top are getting rich while these workers are in big trouble.  “Efficiency”  has replaced decency in this country. 

  • Anonymous

    The mill, in my opinion, will cease to be in existence 10 to 15 years from now.  It’s said but it will go the way of other manufacturing jobs in Maine that have long since left.

    You have South American Companies, and those in Europe, who quite frankly are more efficient and are able to make more of a profit.  

    The other issue is the lack of demand for this particular product.

    Verso just uses this Mill as part of it’s overall portfolio and can sustain a loss in revenue for another ten years or so.

    The sad part is a high percentage of these employees do not have the ability to do anything else.

    There is no place in this state where they could make half of their current salary with limited skills.

  • Anonymous

    Man, it’s been a rough three day weekend job wise. I think
    the govnah has jinxed the state of Maine with his open for business sign. Maybe
    the penguin needs to put a sign up that is a little more accurate, ”
    Maine, Currently restructuring”

  • Anonymous

    Lepage was quick to point out how few jobs were created by the Baldacci administration.  Problem is he is against the same headwinds and who will he blame? 

     This state needs to attract jobs that pay $40k or better.  If all we can create are $10/hr jobs, one’s house is worth less, the tax burden get higher, the ability to expand the state GDP is impossible.

    Call centers and casinos are not the answer.  Manufacturing is.  Come on Governor, where are the jobs? The skilled good paying jobs.

  • TeaParty_aka_AmericanTaliban

    Given the available choices I’ll be voting for Obama again.  All of the “Teapublicans” are too radical for my tastes.  Since I always vote for the most moderate that leaves me with no choice but to vote for Obama because he is the most moderate choice.

  • Anonymous

    Go back to school please at least a basic econ class..this is such a moronic statement I am embarrassed for you

  • Anonymous

    companies may consider that if the american worker did not feel so entitled to ridiculous wages that simply do not allow profit margins…companies exist to create profit with profit comes jobs

  • Anonymous

    NAFTA passed 61 – 38 with mixed support on both sides of the aisle.  This was a popular idea among republicans.  The current talk over trade agreements with central american countries and south korea is more favored by republicans than democrats.  Free trade agreements are not the killer of jobs and economies.  To a great extent, it is unfair trade practices that go unenforced.  China has been obviously manipulating its currency for over a decade and that hurts more than the agreements do. 

    The best solution to the leaking of manufacturing jobs is two fold.  First, enforce trade policies so China and others cannot steal from us to enrich themselves.  Second, encourage investment in manufacturing efficiency through tax credits and policies that can transform our factories into profit makers.  The extraordinary low tax burden on businesses in the US (1.8%, lowest in the world) actually encourages them to take profits out and not invest back into their own operations.  We have highly productive workers but old production assets.

     Trade policy is not an easy thing to understand.  Tariffs are taxes on consumers who want or need foreign goods.  The obvious approach of placing tariffs on foreign goods to encourage consumption of domestic goods has harsh repercussions.  This was one of the missteps that lead to the Great Depression.

  • Anonymous

    Do you mean saying he is conservative and then spending trillions off the balance sheet?  Yeah he’s conservative that way.  Do you mean making the election in 2004 about gay marriage and then never mentioning it again?  Yeah, he was kinda conservative that way too.

  • Anonymous

    Maine’s senators were Cohen and Mitchell in 1993 when NAFTA passed, if that’s what you mean.

  • Anonymous

    You may want to read up on American history as it relates to tariffs.  This was one key factor in bringing about the great depression.  China’s approach is to beggar thy neighbor by devaluing their currency.  That is against international trade law and it is up to us to take the cause to the WTO.  For whatever reason, nobody in Washington now or in recent decades has thought this worth pursuing.  Unions are not the problem either.  Without them, there would have been no good paying jobs in Bucksport for the last 50 years. 

  • Anonymous

    Grad degree in finance here and it sounds about right.  Tell it like it is AdamWest1.

  • Anonymous

    Neither Bush or Obama scream “progressive” to me……except when they were trying to get elected……

  • Anonymous

    Unions are simply the lobbyists of workers.  Corporations have thousands of them with billions of dollars.  Are you suggesting workers need no voice in congress?  The declining power of unions is a big part of why the middle class gets no consideration in public policy anymore.  Occupy Union halls!  Please.  Why do you love the oligarchs so much as to run interference for them?  Do you think they will ever let you in their club?  If you are in northern Maine and writing comments in the BDN, you are not in their club and never will be, neighbor.  You are one of those who argue against your own best interests because corporatists, like Rush and Hannity, tell you to.

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    It strikes me as considerably more “decent” to continue to employ 575 people rather than layoff 700 because of misguided “decency”. Senior managers of these companies and mills make such decisions based on past performance and on-going market conditions. Executive salaries have nothing to do with it. In Bucksport’s case, the driver for this is an orderbook that cannot sustain full production. A mill like Bucksport, as with any other manufacturing facility, is profitable on incremental production above that needed to cover its fixed costs. If a machine has to be idled, it will be that machine whose orders provide the lowest contribution margin.

    You need to educate yourself away from the myth of liberal ignorance regarding how business works.

  • Anonymous

    The internet is what has killed this round of jobs. From what I read the type of paper being made is no longer being used. People aren’t buying as many mags, or getting catalogs, they are choosing to go “paperless” to the dismay of these 125 workers 8(

  • Anonymous

    Separation of Politics, and Business…8)

  • Anonymous

    MBA myself but I must have gone to a different Econ class than you…cracker jacks and devry do not count

  • Anonymous

    If you read the reports of the council of economic advisers, you will see that the stimulus changed the “trajectory” of GDP drastically in mid to late 2009.  The rapid job losses that occurred under Bush were mitigated and 2009 and 2010 showed modest but positive job trends. 

    The stimulus did what it was intended to do.  The problem lies in that the mess this was attempting to alleviate was far worse than initially thought.  It was clear by March 2009 that conditions favorable for depression were in place. 

    You should read the Council of Economic Advisers reports so you have facts to deal with.  This is economics, not astrology.  It is an empirical science and you have to read the stuff to know it.  There is nothing obvious about it.  Read the latest report on the recovery act and pay attention to the change in GDP and employment before and after the ARRA and tell me it didn’t work.

    Stimulus increases GDP when stagnant or falling.   The government MUST be the spender of last resort, if not then nobody.  America can afford this.  It is temporary and will help millions of people who want to work and stop collecting the sad pittance of UI.

  • Anonymous

    jobs probably offered his employees excellent wages and benefits.  that being the case, there would be no need for employees to unionize.

  • Anonymous

    Obama is no progressive.  He is a moderate fiscal conservative in any climate other than the crazed one we are in right now.  A true progressive would throw the book at the banksters.  If you want to see what  a true progressive looks like, see Elizabeth Warren.  She can speak for me anytime.  Nothing elite about her, just plain ‘ol smart and caring for her neighbors.

     

  • Anonymous

    He’s got my vote as well.  You must be out of touch if you think anyone in the GOP field has even a remote chance.

  • Anonymous

    I have great hope that the majority of human beings care more about others than you seem to.

  • Anonymous

    robert reich essentially stated the same in a recent interview.  my sense is that his understanding of economics is far more advanced than yours.  

  • Anonymous

    I second that! It’s only important that they make more than last year….not if they make a little less but keep more employed! Big Corporations want and LOVE tax breaks right? Why not give a break for companies who took a loss to keep people employed thus helping the economy?

  • Anonymous

    400 billionaires own as much as the bottom 50% of Americans.  The top 1% are increasing their wealth by multiples while the rest of us flounder.  The excuse from middle management is always the say:  we can’t do anything, it’s just a cost-benefit equation.  You make a good attack dog for your masters.

    But I don’t buy it.  I want decency, not some kind of efficiency that gives the United States the same income distribution as an African dictatorship.

    There is something very sick and rotten in this country–Wall Street is a big part of the problem, but so is the mentality that we are helpless in the face of global forces.  This is still the richest country in the world–and we rank worse in health and happiness than many other countries.  Why?

    Too much corruption.  Too much avarice.

  • Anonymous

    occupy pennsylvania ave

  • Liberal Soup N Crackers

    Nothing you have stated has a single thing to do with anything in this story.

  • Anonymous

    jobs was an absolute animal to work for berating and humiliating everyone while using chinese child labor working 16 hours days with brutal punishnement for messing up,while giving zero ot charity.

  • Anonymous

    Palin isn’t running…..

  • Anonymous

    8(

  • Anonymous

    FISCAL CONSERVATIVE???>??? You must be joking!! That man has spent more money in a shorter period of time and created more debt in three years than any President in history.

  • Anonymous

    369$ is still more than I earn most weeks 8(

  • Anonymous

    So much for the Lepage job creation jauggernaut.

  • Anonymous

     Perhaps I could interrupt the predictable rants about what President Obama has/has not done to pose the following question: to what extent will Verso’s shutdown influence what happens with the mills Cate Street has just purchased?  Verso’s actions indicate a continued softening in global paper demands, at least for those that it makes. Are the mills in and around Milli sufficiently different in what they produce to be buffered against this weak demand, or will we in short order be hearing about a change of plans regarding the two planned restarts there? Just curious- perhaps someone out there can fill us all in?

  • Anonymous

    And I don’t suppose Obama’s GE buddies and Goldman Sachs buddies and Citigroup buddies are just plain suffering under the Obama presidency they financed. 

    Talk about give-aways. One word. Solyndra.

    Besides the President is destroying his re-election chances all by his little self as Democrats desert him on the campaign trail and as he can’t even get his pretend Jobs bill through a Democratic controlled Senate. That’s all the Reps fault too I bet.

  • Anonymous

    You are correct. While everyone is always screaming about NAFTA it was the WTO that has done the real damage. Set us up internationally in some areas to be non-competitive. Paper is one. Most paper these days comes from Brazil South Africa and Spain. The have the largest most efficient paper mills.

  • Anonymous

    that explains it..your information comes from a Marxist Berkley professor…now I understand it…he is pro-union and pro tax you and he simply do not get it…you can’t tax and spend your way out pal…lower taxes on corporations and flat tax across the board..

  • Anonymous

    Funny thing about Reich is that he is criticized in his own circles for being unwilling to listen to other people. Character flaw maybe  but more likely he got something right once and is still living off the glory.

  • Anonymous

    You forgot to  ask for copies of the books  “The Capitalist Parasites Identification Handbook”,  “Chaos for Kooks”   and the ever popular “Morons Guide to Moral superiority”.

  • Anonymous

    I like how a couple of my post got “deleted”……. The truth hurts don’t it?????

  • Anonymous

    I told you where the jobs are……    My post got deleted……. The truth hurts in AMERICA!!!!

  • Anonymous

    First of all how do you know his policies did prevent a depression?

    Secondly. Passing out money to those that supported you the most during your campaign is not always good fiscal policy. Teachers Unions, over bloated State bureaucracies & therefore public sector unions, Green energy companies like Solyndra  (Bankrupt for lack of a market). GE zero income tax. The list goes on. That my friend was not stimulus. That was paying back the folks that supported you.

  • Anonymous

    Are you speaking about the Presidents Council of Economic Advisers?

    The group that over the last year, as the effects of the stimulus have become know have all resigned.  You mean that “Council of Economic Advisers”? I feel sure they ALL wanted to spend more time with their families.

  • Anonymous

    Hey Lolli,you said East Mill wasn’t going to start,are always hopeless

  • Anonymous

    Actually – you are going to want to refer to W’s dramatic expansion of the Government and funding of two unnecessary wars before your get yourself all hopped up. 

  • Anonymous

    Right on – NAFTA is not what needs to be repealed.  What should be repealed is Maine’s appetite for cheap garbage imported from China and sold at Wal-mart.   That is playing a large role in the collapse of Maine’s manufacturing industry.  Oh, and the fact that nobody wants paper anymore.

  • Anonymous

    Open your eyes and look at what’s happening to your society.  I was a lot better when I was a kid.  One parent stayed home, jobs were longterm and steady.  Back then, taxes were high and CEO’s didn’t make that much more than the rest. 

    Now CEO’s are greedy and bloated with wealth, and every middle manage has the same story over and over when it comes time to fire the workers.

    “Sorry, you are no longer cost effective. ” Meanwhile, another multimillionaire buys another yacht.

  • Anonymous

    Sad to hear another group of people will be unemployed soon. This country is turning into the land of opportunity for none.

  • Anonymous

    Compare the annual numbers.Over a three year period Obama wins hands down.

  • http://www.bangordailynews.com Bangor Daily News

    Your posts won’t be removed if you don’t use abbreviated swear words, and other posts in the thread were removed because the commenter decided to insult you personally.

  • Anonymous

    I wonder if the Bucksport selectmen are rethinking the huge tax break they gave Verso?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QCC3ABRLTIU3EFA26HUIDQZTSM Chris

    Reading this news article I noticed  an obvious absence of two names… Paul lepage and adrienne b. . have to assume they didn’t think it was important, had no comment or LOL… took a long weekend.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Davida-Willette/100000655412147 Davida Willette

    i kinda wondered when bucksport would be hit it seemed to be holding it own for awhile there. i feel for the people that will be losing their jobs. doesnt surprise me with the economy the way it is this winter is going to be very tough for alot of folk to survive the winter the price of oil almost 1000 dollars to fill a 275 gallon tank  one shot winters are long and harsh . 

  • Anonymous

    Are you a fan of Bush?

  • Anonymous

    Good stuff, thanks for sharing!

  • Anonymous

    Why is this LePage’s fault? 

    The paper industry as we knew it is gone, it is a commodity competing with other forms of media and in order for paper to be consumed it must be cost competitive with these.  Unfortunately in the US it is not.  We have added rules, regulations, taxes and many other burdens to most industries making them non-competitive.  Raising or enforcing tariffs only transfers the costs to those that purchase the goods and services from afar.  It does nothing to improve the climate in the US that businesses operate.  Another issue is the amount of money that many corporations have overseas and refuse to bring home.  Because of the exorbitant tax structure that is in place for repatriating funds earned in other countries most corporations have decided to use these funds elsewhere.  Lets change the law and make it desirable for corporations to bring the funds home.  I believe that then you would see new investments in the US which in turn will create jobs.

    We are our own worst enemy.

  • Anonymous

    And you obviously do not understand the problem.  So sad.

  • Anonymous

    Well said.  And without slogans or hysteria.  Thanks.

  • Anonymous

    I think we can be assured that Gov. LePage does not control the worldwide demand for light weight catalog grade papers. Maybe he does and he made the call to pull the plug on the use of this grade of paper and put the screws to those mill workers in Bucksport. 

  • Anonymous

    “Reading this news article I noticed  an obvious absence of two names…
    Paul lepage and adrienne b. . have to assume they didn’t think it was
    important, had no comment or LOL… took a long weekend.”

    And I noticed the absence of “Gov LePage and Adrienne B. did not return repeated phone calls seeking comment.”

  • Anonymous

    stealmymoney in case you missed it, manufacturing jobs have moved overseas all over the country, not just Maine. That’s the result of Federal policy, not state.

  • Anonymous

    Dilska and which “Occupy” group have you been protesting with?

  • Anonymous

    I didn’t realize the Westboro Baptist Church read the BDN.

    Seriously, if this is God’s Judgement was the Great Depression and was that God’s Judgement too?

  • Anonymous

    I thought you weren’t into “pointing fingers”.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GBHAWY2DGMGS5W3VHFYLBPN7AU Jay C

    not that simple.  They make paper, would need a total change out

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QCC3ABRLTIU3EFA26HUIDQZTSM Chris

    JD …the other possibilities are that they just changed their phone numbers or don’t take calls from the BDN when it comes up on the caller ID. You actually think the BDN didn’t call them?(which I think you may be alluding to). Now that you bring it up the lack of the mention of an attempt to contact our royalty is a notable lapse on the part of the authors.  Thank you for your common sense comment. 

  • Anonymous

    You better hope that Romney gets on the ticket otherwise Obama will be president again.

  • Fred Whitehouse

    We all must compete in a global market now. The President nor the Governor can help us sell our products when our prices are too high. I wonder if these people could have kept their jobs if they would have accepted a lower, more world competitive wage? No fun to take a pay cut, but awful awful to be out of a job for the rest of you life which may be the case.

  • Anonymous

    Left wing mumbo jumbo and jibberish has created how many jobs ?  How many of those eggheads on the great council have any real world experience ?

  • Anonymous

    You are obviously citing TARP money, most all of which has been paid back.  Put that back  onto the books and GW wins that showdown.  Interestingly enough, the Clinton balanced budget amendment expired in 2003.  GW chose to not renew it and then went on a spending spree the likes of which had never been seen before.  

    Republicans don’t mind running up debt, and Democrats tax and spend.  Spending is NOT in any way an attribute of only one party.

  • Anonymous

    ughhh….. stop churchin up my BDN.  Save it for Sunday

  • Anonymous

    only pointing out the positive.

  • Anonymous

    Why is it than when a non union business has to shut down or lay off, our congressional delegation is no where to be seen?

  • Anonymous

    you lost the election, get over it.

  • Anonymous

    i give it about 5 years tops, and i live in b’port.

  • Anonymous

    sorry the reply was for Jimmies.

  • Anonymous

    very few of teh mill workers live in the b’port area.

  • Anonymous

    actually if the mill closed down, property values would probably go up.

  • Anonymous

    More Maine jobs bye bye. Seems every day  there are layoff announcements in Maine. Very shortly there won’t be any jobs it seems. Thanks LePage you have been such an inspiration. At least your daughter has a secure job.

  • Anonymous

    The beginning of the end for what used to be  about the last profitable mill in Eastern & Northern Maine. Unfortunately,these high paying jobs are no longer sustainable in the global market.

  • Anonymous

    Guess they should have taken the company’s offer………

  • Anonymous

    i thought the reason for the steam turbine was to save them money in the paper making,so what are they just going to produce power there now,seams it was verso’s goal was to be a pwoer genorrator.

  • Anonymous

    to the person who thinks that Eliz. Warren in NOT an elitest.    she is a Harvard prof.,worked for Pres. Oboma in another new made up duplicate job/dept.,  lives in a home assessed at $1,500,000.00, made over $400,000.00 last year in salary and on and on.    wow, to think of her as a common everyday person is really, really a stretch.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know anything about the Westboro Baptist Church, I’m not from Westboro.  Respectfully, if you read my whole post, I said, “I am NOT saying these people are under judgement, I imply our entire courntry is.” 
     My point is for a country that was founded on the word of God, whose laws and directives were founded on the word of God has now turned her back on God.  If you would like I provide you with scripture after scripture that proves this.  We are under the judgement of God. The signs are everywhere.  As a christian, a friend I have to warn my neighbors the bridge down the road is washed out.  I wouldn’t be a friend or a good christian if I didn’t warn people the road ahead will lead to destruction.  America wake up.  JD2008JD  if you understand your history, the roaring 20′s was a decade of pride and turning away from God.  After the depression and WWII  we had some of the greatest Christian revivals this country has every seen.  We had those revivals because people realized their trust in riches could be taken away overnight.  They ran to God because they new He is the only real peace.  Spiritually our country parallell’s Israel’s history, by government our country parrellel’s the old Roman empire.  The history of both nations are currently playing out before us, best regards….

  • Anonymous

    You mean, like, Mainers should have their disposable income raised?

  • Anonymous

    No I am talking Stimulus around 800 billion plus a 3.5 trillion dollar budget about 1.5 trillion of which was deficit.  No other President in history paid that much out in one year.

    The discussion was whether Obama was a fiscal conservative or not. Of course he isn’t.

  • Anonymous

    pianoplayah the United States of America was not “founded on the word of God”. The Constitution does not mention “God”, “Heavenly Father”, “Supreme Being”, etc…any where in the document aside from the date line.

    The Bill of Rights limits the influence of organized religion on the government through the First Amendment. The First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a state religion, allows individuals to worship how they wish or not worship if they desire.

    The laws which govern our country originate from English Common Law. Those laws can be traced back all the way to The Code of Hammurabi, a well-preserved Babylonian law code, dating to ca. 1700 BCE.

    Has the Bible influenced out laws? Without a doubt it has. But it was not and is not the basis for our “laws and directives”.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Alot of that had to do with forcing the Bush Debt onto the books!

    Phony Bolony Republicans!

  • Anonymous

    Part of the reason for that is that W kept a second set of books related to war expenses.  If you look at money spend as a proportion of GDP, there is no comparison – Bush outspent him.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Absolutely!

    Looking  at the “”option’s”" !

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    It doesn’t really Matter, Obama is the better than the insanity!

  • Anonymous

    Sorry, that’s is mistaken.  Have you even read the the Declaration of Independence? 
    When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God (they authors recognized that even Nature answered to God.) entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness….endowed by their CREATOR. 
    The first amendment

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.I agree that we shouldn’t have a state church.  However, congress or the government has and is beginning to limit what the church can say, what it can stand for, so the reverse is happening.  It happened in Germany and the majority of people blindly accepted it from the leadership. God’s laws, principles, are given to us to guide us in love, not restrictions only.  As for Babylonian government, read the book of Daniel and shall see how wonderful their system of government was.  The Babylonians were murderous, idol worshippers.  I will study more about English Common Law.   Take some time and watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI   see what happens when a nations takes God out of the cornerstone. 

  • Anonymous

    Church is for Sunday, but the christian life is for everyday.  If we want peace and prosperity again in this nation it’s going to take more than trusting in governement, we need to get back down on our knees, seek the face of God, only when we stay on our knees can we ever truely stand…sorry to church up your BDN.  But the Goodnews has all todays headlines already in it and it was written thousands of years, BDN is old news.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Fox is an  Anti Reality Show!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    China has a formular to make paper with DIRT!

    And they can make it  DIRT CHEAP!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    It looks to me as though,

    You are having a to much  ”Information” Break Down!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Look at ” her” Voting record!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Who Really Cares?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CL7IBDRT3K73W6YUTS54SWEA4A David

    I’m very sorry these people are losing their jobs, that is the most important issue here. Now, with that being said, I again point to the state’s economic development commissioner George Gervay and ask what he is going to do about it?  He is probably still pounding his chest over Millinocket, even though that was in the works well before he came into the picture.  So, if he is such a hero, now is his chance to prove it.  C’mon George, time to show us what you’re really made of, if you’re actually made of anything, Mr. multiple Failed Business Owner!

  • Anonymous

    “what are we going to do?”
    We could, build more racinos?  Tastefully, though, for a better Maine in 2050.

  • Anonymous

    So the protected Union members  at the Mill will get large  severance packages, unemployment benifits, re-education, and retirement along with healthcare benies,, It’s hard to take isn’t it… Hey millworkers don’t forget to shop at Wall Mart, you know the company that helped move most factories overseas. Such is the life of hipocrites…

  • Anonymous

    lower taxes on corporations.  failed right wing economic policy is your solution?  as for reich, he’s a rhodes scholar in economics, has a law degree from yale, and was instrumental in shaping clinton’s successful economic policies. i’ll take him over you on an iq test on a bad day.

  • Anonymous

    We the people,

  • Anonymous

    They probably aren’t laughing since we owe them so much.. but they are standing on top, just to make sure if anyone comes to life we’ll have to pay to get out.

  • Anonymous

    Come on Blackstone!

  • Anonymous

    eight year bull market during clinton qualifies as getting something right for sure.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KRFCVCJNGB7CHUXUY4ZJWQRTQI Ole Grizz

    Let’s get real….the facts show….
    Regan increased the debt….from 1981 – 1989 to 189%….
    1st Bush increased the debt….from 1989 – 1993 to 55%
    Clinton increased the debt….from 1989 – 2001 to 37% even though he ended his term with a surplus….
    2nd Bush increased the debt…from 2001 – 2009 to 115% and started two wars….that we are still paying for…
    Obama increased the debt….from 2009 – 2011 to 16%

    So no matter how you look at it….my party the Republican Party has increased the debt 359% when they were in office, versus the Democrats who have increased the debt 53%…..and my party’s answer to the debt now is NO! to everything so Obama doesn’t get elected in 2012….and my party thinks this is going to solve all our problems….well welcome to the real world….Both parties are wasting our future away….”JUST WONDERFUL”
     

  • Anonymous

    the key is the digital age shopping that people do now. I don’t remember the last time that I looked at a real catalog.  All of the people on here that are blaming bush,obama, or any other president should just blame progress in technology.

  • Anonymous

    True. look at all of us on here. we aren’t exactly mailing copies of newspapers to each other and writing comments on them.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

    I think you need to look at Maine not the fed. Maine has ruled taxed and regulated everything right out of the state.  If you live in Maine you do not even have the right to go to court to fight for what your owed if your hurt at work. But you can mooch of the state in any number of ways all paid for by the business and folks that pay taxes. The unions demand higher then the average wage and get it the gov demands higher taxes and the owners leave the state to make profit. I do not blame them at all. Blame lies with us and our uber welfare outrages amounts of tax free status property and stupid high taxes on those who actually work. 

  • Anonymous

    You are going to have to provide proof of that.

  • Anonymous

    I see that the full cost of the war up to and including the three years under Obama is 1.2 trillion. even if you front load the cost a bit it becomes about $150 billion annually.  Obama spent that much on a long weekend.

  • Anonymous

    Lets get real. The two sets of books people are referring to I believe can be answered like this.

    There are books of debt the government borrows from outside sources and there are books of debt the government borrows from itself.

    I think you are unwittingly  picking and choosing which debt to use when you use those figures above.

    The FACT is that the total national debt was about $10.7 trillion dollars when Obama took office. (all debt). Today that debt is $14.8 trillion dollars.  An increase of $4.1 Trillion dollars in 3 years.

    When Bush took office the national debt was $5.7 trillion dollars when he left 8 years later he had increased the debt by about $5 trillion dollars, about $625. Billion per year.
    President Obama has increased the National Debt on average $1.25 trillion dollars per year.

    As to my point above. Obama is no fiscal conservative as the poster claims and I am correct that Obama is the biggest spender in history.

    Take a look at this clock to see what it all means.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

  • Anonymous

    Blaming the GOP for Democratic ineptitude is like blaming Vince Wifrk for not getting an interception in every Patriots game. (Obscure reference I know but if you are a fan that’s funny)

  • Anonymous

    They all ran when they saw their plan didn’t work the way they said it would.

  • Anonymous

    I feel sure that Reich had a lot to do with the computer age being born.

  • Anonymous

    According to US Treasury data, total federal spending under Bush peaked at 20.65% of GDP in 2008 and never exceeded 20% for his prior seven years in office. BO’s 2009 spending was 24.91% of GDP in 2009 including the Stimulus, 23.82% in 2010 and is projected to hit +25.5% in 2011.

  • Anonymous

    According to current US Treasury data, Bush increased total US debt over eight years from $5.629 trillion to $9.986 trillion while in office or $4.357 trillion. The August debt forecast for year-end 2011 is $15.476 trillion or an increase of $5.490 trillion in three years. However, the forecast was based on the White House assumption of 4.0% GDP growth versus the current estimate of 1.0% so debt could be expected to increase another $300-$400 billion. This also doesn’t include the Treasury’s printing of another $1.2 trillion in additional currency.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the data. There are a few ways to look at this and if you are impartial every one says Obama is the biggest spender in history.

  • Anonymous

    good data. I’ll just go home now.

  • Anonymous

    Its called the internet!,,,blame it on Gore! Come on people. Its economics not politics.

  • Anonymous

    paper will always be produced in some fashion for different means.  Printing paper is the product that a dying my friend.

  • Anonymous

    Sounds dirty….

  • Anonymous

    dirigo, I work at Verso at you just nailed it!  Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    they are still going to be taxing a dead machine.

  • Anonymous

    The sad part is is that you have no clue what “a high percentage of these employees” have for skills.  Making statements like this is opinionated mush.  Yes,  the paper industry is changing and yes the printing paper market is dying for the most part.  If you do the research you will see that paper has many other uses.  Ask SAPPI how their business is doing by being creative.  Verso has converted a machine to produce specialty grades which saved that machine.  Paper is actually environmentally sound and a viable product to produce.  Don’t sell the paper industry short yet and do not degrade the people at Verso as a bunch of mono skilled over paid bumpkins either.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t believe I mentioned The Declaration of Idependence in my post. But as you brought it up, the Declaration of Independence is a “Bill of Indictment” written as a list of charges against a “King” that was believed to be “divine” and was written to show that no “divine ruler” can grant, limit or take away basic human rights.

    So in answer to your question, “Have you even read the the Declaration of Independence?” the answer is yes I have.

    Now, let’s move on to the second part of your post –

    “However, congress or the government has and is beginning to limit what
    the church can say, what it can stand for, so the reverse is happening.”

    Really? Could you provide three specific laws which have been passed and upheld as Constitutional that “limit what
    the church (and by “church” you mean a “Christian church?) can say, what it can stand for”.

    I never said anything about the Babylonian government. I specifically mentioned the Code of Hammurabi which was a specific code (laws) to live by and is the basis for many of the laws we live by today. But if you wish to discount that fact, that is your right.

    The rise to power of Adolf Hitler and National Socialism is more complicated and more involved than removing “God” as a “cornerstone”. I don’t have the time (and it would be so far off topic that the BDN would remove the post) to go into the multiple reasons for Hitler’s rise to power.

    The Bible has been used for thousands of years by believers and nonbelievers alike to justify slavery, murder, genocide, purges, etc… The message of Jesus Christ is fairly simple. but has been perverted by many leaders to fit their particular “agenda”.

    So in closing, if this is a nation” founded on the word of God, whose laws and directives were founded on the word of God” why don’t we have a state religion?

  • Anonymous

    Lay off the Faux News tea for a couple days and your brain might return to normal.

  • Anonymous

    What you say has some merit Roger. I had an interesting conversation with one of the workers constructing the new power lines from Orrington to southern Maine recently.

    In essence, what he said was he has never worked in a state that has the environmental laws that Maine has. He said that when the power line is completed. the land must be returned to pre-construction state minus the trees. Vernal pools must be restored, roads must be removed, etc…He then said he understands why Maine does this because of the beauty of the state and natural resources.

    It is a delicate balance, attracting new business and business regulation.

  • Anonymous

    Dont worry…in a few years Bucksport is going to resemble Millinocket. The mill will remain closed for a few years,then re open minus the Unions,and the high paying jobs.

  • Anonymous

    You mean like it didnt in Millinocket?? Wonder how you reached that conclusion?

  • Anonymous

    Unemployment benefits are available for everyone, not just Union members.

    Re-education (re-training) is also available for anyone whose jobs are eliminated due to jobs moved overseas.

    Many companies provide severance packages. Several non-union companies I have worked for have provided severance packages when forced to lay people off.

    In closing, I am willing to bet my bi-weekly paycheck that the mill workers would rather be working then facing an unknown future.

  • Anonymous

    Its time we start putting Tariff’s on all these good’s manufactured overseas with slave labor to bring their cost of getting to market the same level playing field. American’s are the best on the planet when it comes to building and making good’s,we just need a level playing field. Too bad the federal government doesnt actually represent the interests of the common American citizen. We also need a law that says if you pack up shop and move overseas,you are shut off totally and permanently from the U.S. market. Banned from exporting into the U.S. 

  • Anonymous

    people who insist on commenting intelligently will have to go to the back of the line.

    ;)

  • Anonymous

    If you want a little insight to why #2 paper machine shut down here it is.  New Page and Fraser Paper  filed for bankruptcy.  By vaporizing or severely reducing their debts they have been able to undercut Verso pricing and take shares of orders that they would not have been able to get if they were held accountable for their debts.  Hey, its the way of the world now.  No accountability.  Verso pays its debts and it suffers for it.

  • Anonymous

    made me laugh

  • Anonymous

    tariffs are bad

  • Anonymous

    Your right afganastan was a peaceful democracy?

  • Anonymous

    I have to say I enjoy this forum….It’s just to bad that I’m sure the owners saw this closure coming and didn’t do anything within there power to assimilate these workers into another part of the mill. 8(

  • Anonymous

    That’s nonsense!  The reasons that Verso is discontinuing CGW paper in Bucksport and Sartell are just what they are quoted as saying in the article – old, inefficient machines=high cost of production, and the CGW market has gone to hell in a handbasket.  All you have to do is look at the USPS’ numbers for the number of pieces of 4th class mail(flyers, circulars) that they handle to verify that printers are not buying CGW paper.
    Also, it’s good to remember that Verso’s principals(Apollo) bought a majority of the senior secured debt of NewPage, so they will have to queue up for payment when the bankruptcy court decides who gets paid and how much.

  • Anonymous

    “Its time we start putting Tariff’s on all these good’s manufactured
    overseas with slave labor to bring their cost of getting to market the
    same level playing field.”

    Well with NAFTA, WTO, etc…I believe (I admit I could be wrong) but tariff’s are illegal.
    ~~~~~
    “American’s are the best on the planet when it comes to building and making good’s,we just need a level playing field.”

    At one time I would have agreed with you. But there are many products that we do not make (i.e. TVs, computers, MP3 players, etc… are one example) and could not make without major infrastructure investments.
    ~~~~~
    “Too bad the federal government doesnt actually represent the interests of the common American citizen.”

    I have to agree with you on this point. I have said much the same thing.
    ~~~~~
    “We also need a law that says if you pack up shop and move overseas, you
    are shut off totally and permanently from the U.S. market. Banned from
    exporting into the U.S.”

    You really want to drive businesses out of this country? You may also want to look at where things are made vs. where they are assembled.

  • Anonymous

    I know many of the folks that work at the mill.   The majority of them have a high school education and could not find a job making half as much anywhere else.  These same folks would tell you the same thing.

    Certainly there are people working at the mill who have college degrees and others who have additional skill sets.

    I understand that Verso can now make different type of paper packaging for various food products.

    The fact remains that it will eventually go the way of the shoe and clothing industry.

    My goal is not to make fun of anyone  but, with the right connections (family), you can go straight from high school to the mill what other skills will you have to offer 20 or 30 years down the road when a job is taken away?

  • Anonymous

    If we got rid of NAFTA tis would help!  All our manufacturing is going to other countries, we just can’t compete with child labor!

  • Anonymous

    Right wing mumbo jumbo and jibberish has created how many jobs? Hmmm, eggheads! I guess you feel that intelligence or educational attainment are character flaws? We all have real world experience of some kind, neighbor.

  • PabMainer

    Most paper mills pay a significant portion of the local property tax…..some mills pay 60 to 80 % of the municipal tax in their town…..property values most likely would not go up if the mill closed, but the tax mill rate most definitely would…..

  • Anonymous

    Theirs is a tough job in this climate, granted. Many of the advisers were left over from Bush, so their fatigue is understandable.

    Interesting that you chose to attack the advisers instead of defending your position with facts.

  • Anonymous

    In terms of structural deficit creation, GW Bush is the reigning champ. Obama has actually reduced the structural gap by a very small amount. The short term deficit is not consequential in the long term. Short term deficits are easily paid down when the economy is strong. Clinton and Carter managed to reduce deficits they inherited.

    If we are not willing to get the economy going again, through focused intervention, it will not heal, regardless of who is in the White House or what the future tax rates are. The government is the spender of last resort in a shrinking economy.

    Much of the deficit we are seeing now is the result of our being in a deep recessive cycle. Revenues are down, people are out of work and food and unemployment assistance are running higher than normal. This need not continue. There is a straight forward way to turn the cycle positive. The GOP has decided that America should suffer so out comes that old filibuster again.

    The GOP has not declared war on Obama as he has three squares and a warm bed. The GOP has declared war on the rest of us. The jobless directly and the rest by having a stagnant economy that kills demand for consumption. The GOP and their lack of interest in the American people is the only obstacle to emerging from this man-made crisis. This is still the lingering effects of most irresponsible fiscal policy in our history that was brought to us by the same GOP. Now they just want to stick it to the black man that was elected by the great people of this great country.

    Show me the facts about republicans balancing the budget. It is only talk. They have not acted that way in 50 years. Sorry, without facts your argument is empty and partisan meaningless.

  • Anonymous

    Ouch. Bit of a mean streak there. University educated, top of my class, sir.

    “If you are not a gentleman, anything you know is bad for you.” Oscar Wilde

  • Anonymous

    danwent7, Thank You.  I am wondering when people will wake up to the real facts.

  • Anonymous

    You know what I an sick and tired of all the negativity people post on here! The truth of the matter is that more hard working folks are losing their jobs not just Bucksport but Pittfield…..
    Not all of these jobs are union jobs and for some of you have you ever worked in the paper industry? If so you would stop you whining about them being over paid. These folks work 12 hour shifts  and work HARD come home bone tired…..We as Mainers need to change how we do business. The greenies have WAY too much power, I’m all for saving  nesting sights etc but I think we go way overboard. We also need to stop over taxing and regulating. 

  • Anonymous

    Obama had nothing to do with this…………the free trade agreement is the cause of all our jobs leaving this country NOT Obama. Obama wants to tax the rich fairly and the rich are fighting it tooth and nail. I would recommend taking a look at the greedy GOP and their distruction around our country. The working class has been taxed and held this country up for years, with no jobs now ………how about we tax the rich fairly and let them have a turn holding us all up???

  • Anonymous

    Um, you may want to do some research. Obama has decreased the debt

  • Anonymous

    Proof, please?

  • Anonymous

    OK Lets see your numbers….. That is just about the silliest claim I’ve seen here in years.

    Just basic math….
     That national debt when Bush left office was about $10.7 trillion dollars
    Today it is $14.8 Trillion dollars.

    Don’t they teach subtraction in your school? No wonder we are falling behind the rest of the world in education.

  • Anonymous

    You are in complete and total denial. That’s all that can explain your claim.

    There is nothing short term about this debt. The debt is 100% of GDP. To keep even with the Debt you need a GDP growth rate of 3% annually. To reduce the debt it needs to be higher 4 or 5%. The GDP growth rate at the moment is under 1%.

    Take a look at the unfunded liability on this link.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

  • Anonymous

    These people were not holdovers. They were all academics brought in on the transition team then into their offices in government building on January 20th 2009. Their first assignment was to rewrite large portions of the Bush budget. Their next task was to write the stimulus package for the President. These were not holderovers at all. Jeesh. Desperate aren’t we.

    The reason for my “attack” is the cowardly approach they took to failure. Running, while at least some of them could preserve their academic reputations.

  • Anonymous

    It isn’t NAFTA that is the problem it is the WTO.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QCC3ABRLTIU3EFA26HUIDQZTSM Chris

    That’s my point . Not only is there no comment here but none anywhere.  Marden’s was open and paul said they were open when Marden’s was open. The time line is extending well beyond 24 hours with no comment from lepage and his staff. People in Bucksport probably do not matter to him. 

  • Anonymous

    Yes, the rate is that low because of the inaction of congress. A 4-5% GDP growth rate is not unusual in “normal” economic conditions. Under 1% is very unusual in the long term scheme of things. If you are going to make budgetary decisions based on the worst case scenario, you can expect worst case scenario results for America. Your rationale for inaction is bizarre. That current rate screams the need to intervene.

    The US still has the ability to access capital at ridiculously low rates (negative even in ‘real’ terms). When the cost of money is that cheap and you have an economy that cannot gain traction, the benefits of stimulus are maximized.

    Those of you with your debt clocks fail to recognize that paying down debt requires strong economics. You will NEVER get there without doing something. You cannot will away the liquidity crisis. It is ours until we do something about it.

    You are very quick to shoot down my arguments for action. What plan would you support that could get the economy going again? Cutting spending is not a solution to the economy. Doing so now jeopardizes stability. The clock is ticking. the country grows more weary. Job skill grow rustier every day for the unemployed. We are spending way too much money on keeping people going while jobs are scarce. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our advantage in technologies grows smaller. This is all being perpetuated by a congress which values winning the presidency next year over the country having any kind of future.

    You and I both dislike debt. I favor the short term kind over the structural issues like medicare and wasteful contracting by the military. A short term debt can turn the tide if focused. What are we waiting for? The world is passing us by and for over a decade we have accomplished almost nothing as a nation. It is time to think big and act like we are a great nation of can do people. The current congress is the worst excuse for government I can think of since the 1930s. Their legacy is obvious enough.

  • http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

    Mill work is hard work for not alot of pay.  Union bureaucrat work is no work for  alot of pay.

  • Anonymous

    My recollection was that some were asked to stay on past the transition due to the strain of the crisis. I can’t say why any of them left. It is a great resume job for an academic I imagine.

  • Anonymous

    The Keynsians fall into the trap that, “We must do something!!!”  What they mean, of course, is “The Government must do something.”  And there of course lies the rub… We start from two very different places. You advocate some sort of government stimulus  I bet. I prefer some sectors of the economy fail outright.

        Having been in business I have learned something. “It is ok to fail.” In so doing you learn something and rid yourself of your mistakes. Maybe its your business model or your marketing plan or maybe the wrong management staff. Something caused the failure. When you re-organize and come out of it hopefully you know and you are stronger for having learned. If you do not fail you do not learn.

        We as Americans have this “thing” about failure. Our economy needed to let GM fail as an example. The governments place was to maybe ease the pain of the people and workers involved but GM should never have survived. Now we have a company in GM that is answering to the governments tune making cars that government favors. Not what the market favors and what people want but what the Government says the people want.  My guess is that at some point in the future GM will face another crisis similar to the last.
          As of July The US Government still owned 26% of GM stock and is still propping it up with favorable term on purchasing vehicles for the Government.

         The banking market is another example of things that need to fail. Many Many of the largest banks still have crappy assets still on their books. Example: Real Estate property valued for bank purposes at $500k that actually has a market value way less than even half that. In other words our banking system is propped up by bad numbers. That balance sheet assets for many banks is not real. They are trying to siphon off some of those bad assets a little at a time but it may take a decade or more to clean out. Some banks like Lehman before them in my opinion needed to fail. Instead our government picked winners and losers and delayed the day of reckoning.  Japan that went through a similar economic problem in the nineties and did not recover until some of the largest banks were allowed to fail.

      All of this bad bank numbers and bad assets have shaken faith in the banks by the business community and the banks don’t want to loan anyway (because maybe they don’t have enough reserves) not only because of the questionable assets but also because of new rules sent down by the finreg bill from DC.

       Personally I think we have made our decision. When the two sectors of the economy I mention were propped up we condemed ourselves to a decade or more of low growth and high unemployment.

        

  • Anonymous

    what exactly is the job of “economic development director”??  How much is this position costing the town of Bucksport?

  • Anonymous

    With a moniker like that you call yourself a moderate… funny guy!!

  • Anonymous

    its NOT nonsense!  Verso is NOT discontinuing CGW in Bucksport. It’s just number 2 paper machine that is going down. Their big machine (#5) is investing 5.2 million to help improve its viability in offset paper.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

    Y0ur going to blame the new guy for a century of this? Really?

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