Five myths about millionaires

Posted Sept. 25, 2011, at 6:32 a.m.
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This past week, President Obama tried to sell his new “millionaires’ tax” to the Rust Belt. “What’s great about this country is our belief that anyone can make it,” he said in Cincinnati on Thursday, praising “the idea that any one of us can open a business or have an idea that could make us millionaires.” But who are the millionaires Obama is talking about? And will a tax on them help the economy? Let’s examine a few presumptions about the man with the monocle on the Monopoly board.

1) Millionaires are rich.

Being rich has gotten more expensive. A $1 million fortune was unusual in the early 19th century. The word “millionaire” wasn’t even coined until 1827by novelist (and future British prime minister) Benjamin Disraeli. In 1845, Moses Y. Beach, editor of the New York Sun, published a small pamphlet called “Wealth and Biography of the Wealthy Citizens of New York City.” The price of admission to Beach’s list, which was wildly popular, was a mere $100,000.

By the time the first Forbes 400 list of the richest people in America was published in 1982, the smallest fortune featured was $75 million. There has been so much wealth creation in the past 30 years – much of it thanks to the microprocessor behind modern-day fortunes such as Dell, Microsoft and Bloomberg – that only billionaires are on the list. Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest. That isn’t chump change, but it’s roughly equal to the 2010 median household income.

2) Millionaires think they’re rich.

“Rich,” like “poor,” is a relative term. A family living on the American median income of $50,000 a year might think that one living on $500,000 is rich. But that second family, which probably knows families far better off than they are, thinks that you need $5 million a year to be truly rich, and so on.

On Thursday, 44 percent of people voting in an online survey as part of the GOP debate coverage said that a $1 million annual income made a person “rich.” In a 2008 survey of affluent Chicago households, only 22 percent thought a nest egg of $1 million was rich. In March, four out of 10 millionaires surveyed by Fidelity Investments said they do not feel rich. That same month, a majority of investment advisers surveyed in a Scottrade poll said that $1 million isn’t enough for retirement.

Though the average American family is rich beyond the wildest dreams of the average family in Bangladesh, where per capita income recently rose above $700, it’s not much compared with those who summer on beachfront properties in the Hamptons. When John D. Rockefeller learned in 1913 that the late J.P. Morgan had left an estate of $60 million, including a fabulous art collection, he reportedly said: “And to think – he wasn’t even rich.”

3) Millionaires pay proportionately less income tax than poorer people.

In a speech on Monday, Obama said raising taxes on millionaires isn’t class warfare, but “math.” His math may be off: According to the IRS, those with adjusted gross incomes of more than $1 million paid an average of 23.3 percent in federal income taxes in 2008; those earning between $100,000 and $200,000 paid 12.7 percent; and those earning between $50,000 and $100,000 paid 8.9 percent. Half of American families don’t make enough money to pay income taxes at all.

Why do people think millionaires pay less? One cause of confusion is that stock dividends and capital gains in their bracket are taxed at a maximum of 15 percent, while regular income is taxed at a maximum of 35 percent. The rich often earn more dividend and capital gains income than regular income, so it’s tempting to wrongly conclude, as Warren Buffet has, that millionaires “wouldn’t mind being told to pay more in taxes.” But dividends are paid out of corporate profits that have already been taxed. So Buffet’s equity earnings are doubly taxed: He pays 35 percent at the corporate level and 15 percent on his own return.

4) Millionaires share the same political beliefs.

That might have been true in pre-revolutionary France, where the nobility was exempt from most taxation (and why so many were subject to a brief meeting with Dr. Guillotin’s lethal invention). But it is certainly not true in 21st-century America, where political opinions among the rich are just as diverse as they are among the less well-off.

Just consider George Soros and the Koch brothers. They are listed high on the Forbes 400 list, but Soros funds Democratic campaigns, while the Kochs helped foment the tea party revolution. Income can’t be used to predict political opinion. In 2008, for example, Obama won the votes of 60 percent of those with a family income under $50,000 and 52 percent of those earning more than than $200,000. McCain carried the middle class.

In America, millionaires have always had the freedom to disagree – even in the White House. Franklin Roosevelt, called one of the 10 richest presidents by Forbes in 2010, was denounced as a traitor to his class for instituting the New Deal. Also on Forbes’s list: famous trust-buster Theodore Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy, who proposed a “War on Poverty” days before he was assassinated.

5) Obama’s “millionaires’ tax” won’t seriously limit investment.

That’s the line of reasoning that the administration is using. Last week, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told reporters that the president’s plan wouldn’t hurt growth. “I am very confident that the modest changes we’re suggesting in terms of revenues . . . would make the economy stronger in the long term, not weaker in the long term,” he said.

Geithner’s confidence is somewhat misplaced. According to a 2001 congressional study that confirmed a basic tenet of macroeconomics, “each $1 of marginal tax rate cuts would save the private economy at least $1.25 as deadweight losses fall and economic efficiency increases.” Taxes distort investment decisions. Why throw money into productive assets – those that create income through the production of wealth, such as corporate securities or a rental property – if the income they generate will be taxed away?

Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs. And jobs are an unalloyed good thing for an economy. Excessively taxing the capital that makes the economy go is poor public policy. And we have a recent example of how the opposite works well: Unemployment declined by a third in the four years after the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, dropping to 4.2 percent from 6.2 percent. Meanwhile, federal revenue increased 44 percent in those years. If these tax cuts put people to work and generated money for the government, shouldn’t Obama consider the possibility that tax increases should be avoided?

John Steele Gordon is the author of “An Empire of Wealth: The Epic History of American Economic Power.”

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    But dividends are paid out of corporate profits that have already been taxed. So Buffet’s equity earnings are doubly taxed: He pays 35 percent at the corporate level and 15 percent on his own return.

    Huh! These buggers think they are double taxed !

    First they think corporations are people and then the think that people are corporations.

    Next they will claim that they are Triple Taxed because the the income that comes to a corporation came from another corporation that was taxed!

  • Anonymous

    I hope them cigarettes are gonna make you cough
    Hope you heard this song and it pissed you off
    I take that back I hope you’re doing fine
    And if I had a dollar I might give you ninety-nine.

    Little miss, Little miss, Little miss can’t be wrong
    AIn’t nobody gonna bow no more when you sound your gong

  • Anonymous

    Ok, dlbt, so give us your explanation of why they re not taxed as written in the article.  You make a statement and think we’re gonna buy it?  Well, then, I’ve got a bridge for sale . . .

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” That’s an interest rate of 5%. Please tell me where to find a bank that pays 5% on any type of account!

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” That’s an interest rate of 5%. Please tell me where to find a bank that pays 5% on any type of account!

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” That’s an interest rate of 5%. Please tell me where to find a bank that pays 5% on any type of account!

  • Anonymous

    Four reasons this story is wrong.
    1. One million in the bank still makes you rich compared with most everyone else. Plus you are debt free with a nice 50k income. [implied]
    2. Subjective feelings are not facts. [facts debunk myths]
    3. Only if you own the corporation. Even corporate millionaires have diversified portfolios.
    4. Demand drives hiring, not tax rates.

  • Anonymous

    Four reasons this story is wrong.
    1. One million in the bank still makes you rich compared with most everyone else. Plus you are debt free with a nice 50k income. [implied]
    2. Subjective feelings are not facts. [facts debunk myths]
    3. Only if you own the corporation. Even corporate millionaires have diversified portfolios.
    4. Demand drives hiring, not tax rates.

  • Anonymous

    Four reasons this story is wrong.
    1. One million in the bank still makes you rich compared with most everyone else. Plus you are debt free with a nice 50k income. [implied]
    2. Subjective feelings are not facts. [facts debunk myths]
    3. Only if you own the corporation. Even corporate millionaires have diversified portfolios.
    4. Demand drives hiring, not tax rates.

  • http://twitter.com/GriffinClubMerv El_Merv

    That is exactly what I was thinking – American’s have stopped either caring or noticing that almost all forms of consumer banking actually penalize those who save.

  • http://twitter.com/GriffinClubMerv El_Merv

    That is exactly what I was thinking – American’s have stopped either caring or noticing that almost all forms of consumer banking actually penalize those who save.

  • http://twitter.com/GriffinClubMerv El_Merv

    That is exactly what I was thinking – American’s have stopped either caring or noticing that almost all forms of consumer banking actually penalize those who save.

  • Anonymous

    Despite what’s written in this article, the fact remains that a million dollars is more money than most working Mainer’s will earn in their lifetimes.  Let’s keep a little perspective here.

  • Anonymous

    True, the more  money you have, the higher the benchmark. I know millionaires and they cash in on millions of dollars of stock, but when you look at who they hang out with, they are nothing because that guy has 10′as of millions of dollars. And that guy hangs out with the other dude that has 100′s of millions of dollars and they all look at each other like a bunch of idiots. Because money means nothing. So I am for taxing the rich except my income based on the democrat formula puts me in the high end of middle class which is a joke because I am nowhere near that in real monetary value. Maybe upper end of no class because that is what will happpen once the democrats destroy capitalism.

  • Brandon Whitelaw

    4. Demand mainly comes from two things, want and need. More from want than need. Want demand is driven from extra discretionary income. You can increase discretionary income by either, reducing costs (cost of need goods, taxes, etc..) or increasing gross income. The government can’t do much about increasing gross income (without drastic measures that have doubtful long term prospects of working) but can help reduce costs through decreased taxes. However that should only be done after the government has reduced it’s own costs of operation. Otherwise you get increased debt. Hense our current situation whereas in the past taxes have been cut (without first decreasing government spending) and government spending has not just increased, but multiplied in recent years. Taxes cuts or increases are not the catalyst, they are the reaction, a decrease in spending is. 

  • Joseph Mead

    where are you able to get 5% interest on a bank account.
    I’d love to know

  • http://twitter.com/DirigoBlue Gerald Weinand

    I’m reminded of the quote from Patrick Ewing, the former Knicks star:

    “Sure NBA players may make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money too.”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_APVY6G6ITCLZCM2P6GM7UZIIY4 Douglas

    I agree that it only generates $50K in interest and that is why our banking industry is failing everyone.  But keep it in perspective, to have the resources to generate $50K in interest and dividends is an ability that the vast majority of the populace dream about…..and the fact that $50k is more than the average hard working household income is!  I am all for making money, to be comfortable and enjoy that kind of wealth and I will never bash those that have that opportunity.  But…..I am also all for taxing those equitably that can enjoy that life.  That includes myself!  (No, I’m not a millionaire but do make a decent living and I do not complain about my tax rate and how much I owe each year.)  ‘Nough said.

  • Anonymous

    Took the thought right out of my head.  Unless you’ve got 10′s of millions of dollars in the bank, there’s no way you can earn that kind of interest.  Even then, you’re more likely to make money risking it in the market. 

  • Anonymous

    From whence the demand for war?

  • Anonymous

    Both dlbt and Buffet may be getting senile.

  • Anonymous

    You have the haves and the have not’s…. Always been that way, always will…
    You always have people who want to take from the haves and give it to the not’s…

  • Anonymous

    Low rates are the fault of Federal Reserve Policy. They are trying to stimulate the economy. Maybe they know something I don’t but the policy seems to be a failure.

  • Anonymous

    WOW am I suprised the bdn would even publish such a story!!!!   Nice to get the truth out, tax increases are a bad Idea and the wealthy already pay their fare share  now someone needs to have Obama and the liberals read this article

  • Anonymous

    Do a little research and you will find out how much back taxes Buffet owes the fed now and Obama keeps saying he wouldnt mind paying more, he hasent even paid what is due yet!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6IF6XDOE6MQFPB7KHAV6N7KYNY David

    Having $1M in net worth hardly makes you rich. Everyone knows that. It’s the middle class now, even if you earn a few hundred thousand a year, and have a few hundred thousand in your home, pay for some college education, own a couple cars, and have a few hundred thousand in savings – not enough to retire – if you had only one kid maybe you have net worth of $1M. But you sure aren’t rich. This is an out dated metric.

    The whole focus on the economics of the country on wealthy individuals is wrong in an case. Even if tax was 100% on every citizen in this country, we couldn’t pay for the government and the debt we have. Corporations in total make thousands of times more revenue than all the individuals put together, and the largest corporation dont pay their fair share in taxes, or worse, leave their money overseas. Corporate tax reform is the only way to dig ourselves out of this hole. Let the middle class – the millionaires – put their kids through college, pay off their house loans – focus on where the real money is.  

    All of this talk about millionaires is a card-trick – a distraction – an illusion – to keep your eye off the real issue.

  • Anonymous

    Could you give us your source on the back taxes owed.  I would love to check on a few people I know.

  • http://yrihf.com John Bailo

    We should only be taxing assets, not income.   The confusion is apparent in this essay.    Is a millionaire a person who has 1 million in the bank, or who has a million dollar salary?

    Income tax on most people is egregiously high….even 15 percent on someone making say $70,000 is a significant hardship as with Social Security taxes and other local, state taxes and fees the person has barely enough to build a fortune.

    There is a cost to each dollar held.   There is a cost to defend it with the military.   There is a cost to prop up the Treasury and have a  stable currency.   Everyone bears the cost of a dollar, only the dollar-holder gets the reward.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

      Incomes Taxes are imposed on the transfer of money from one entity to another. When an investor takes the proceeds in divedends from a corporation he is Taxed because he is a seperate entity from that corporation.

    There is NO double taxation, the corporation is taxed, the Investor is taxed.

    They are NOT the same entity!

    Besides,
       A corporation has a legal status unlike an individual and is made up of multple individuals who come and go because so deserves taxation as a seperate entity!
       Having special legal rights not given to individuals and then expecting the same rights as individuals is like wanting your cake and eating it to.

     

  • Anonymous

    My idea of increasing the taxes on the real wealthy, those earning over $1 million per year would be to tax it all at the going rate which is I believe is 35% or if we are going to get rid of many loop holes then drop the rate to25% of somewhere in that area.  If we are going to leave the deductions etc. the same then lets tax capital gains on anything kept less than 1 or 2 years at the going ordinary income rate. I see no difference between gambling which is taxed at ordinary rates and playing the stock market which is taxed at capital gains rate of 15%.  If someone is going to invest in something for a long period of time then the rate of 15% should be fair.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

      We both know that a corporation is not the investor and the investor is not the corporation as they both have a different legal description.

    The Double dipping Myth was perpetrated by the greedy who want it all!

    http://pragmatos.net/2008/09/07/the-myth-of-double-taxation/

  • Anonymous

    Take in a cool million, and you’ll get the bankers attention.
    You’ll  be sent upstairs to the trust department. 5%  per years is easy to get for the wealthy, but not for the rest of us. .    

  • http://twitter.com/KhanLee Michael Connelly

    Gordon’s piece is largely bunk, with a sprinkling of irrelevant musings. And facts– remember those?–facts prove it. Anyone who has a million dollars in assets besides the nominal value of a primary residence is, in fact, rich. Rich is a comparative term, not an absolute one. A quick look at the statistics on the incomes and financial worth of the population is all it takes to show that yes, anyone sitting on a million dollars in assets is, in fact, rich.
    Gordon’s fifth assertion is simply a lie, and has been proven to be a lie, by those pesky fact things.

  • Anonymous

    You don’t, but you don’t get wealthy managing your money just with just plain Jane bank saving accounts. 

  • Anonymous

    >> Even if tax was 100% on every citizen in this country, we couldn’t pay for the government and the debt we have.

    What ever are you talking about? You make no sense.

    You appear to be saying in your comment that a person with a million bucks (or worse, a million gained EACH year) should be not be taxed too harshly because they may not be able to handle it, yet it’s OK to tax that harshly a person making 10% or 1% of that money.

    The earlier comment on wealth tax rather than income tax is a good one. People making few tens of thousands per year are already battling the huge headwind from those with negotiating power and control and access to money-making opportunities, the millionaires.

    If you want our government to protect your assets, you need to pay a charge on each such asset. And don’t forget that when the government excludes me from your land, I never agreed to that. I never signed a contract with you. I never agreed to give up my human right to rest on God’s earth without harming anyone when I am tired. And those with claims of all sorts going back generations (including native americans) have been denied for your sake.

    As a society, we need to rethink what fairness is (eg, fair playing fields), and tax those with the most levers proportionally to those levers or else don’t support their levers with our people and the nation’s resources.

  • Anonymous

    We need more even wealth distribution than this hugely lopsided mess we have. There are many reasons to justify this as fair and smart, but among the reasons is this one: we will have MANY more jobs creators with greater distribution of wealth.

    [Another great reason is that current lopsided distribution is way off line with the value and contributions of each person. The unhealthy lopsidedness is mostly based on success or not in playing the game of business, which is the game of contracts: a skill to be sure, but not that much more important, if at all, in contrast with the many other skills and work performed by our citizens on the whole.]

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ron-Donaghe/1651118138 Ron Donaghe

    I earned a mere 52,000 last year, part of it retirement, but my tax rate on that, when you factor in self-employment tax came to 23% of my income. Now, just how does this add up to the ridiculously low tax rate this author is talking about, of 8.9 %? Even taking away the self-employment tax, my tax rate was 11.5%. So, in essence, I paid a tax rate equivalent to the millionaires in this article. Maybe this article was written as an apologia for millionaires.

  • Anonymous

    If taxes are a little higher on the very wealthy (who in a sense are hogging up the US bank notes and many national resources), then there is more money to go around. This greater demand coming from more money being in more hands is why those very same wealthy asset owners will create MORE jobs or otherwise cede earning potential to others.

    AND, with greater wealth distribution — with more people owning — we will have more job creators. We want more job creators. We want more even wealth distribution (and those who have it to pay for the privileges associated with it).

    Gosh, on my hypothetical $40K yearly income I can’t retire either. How much will I make in interest yearly? Pennies and single dollar bills if you first remove the costs necessary to sustain my life, home, and basic expenses. You should feel rich indeed if you can sit back doing nothing and get more in one year than I make working some 2000 hours.

  • Anonymous

    You really hit upon it, and this is where Buffett is right.  It creates a system–which even the poorest can see–where there becomes a tipping point between “rich” and “not rich.”  Once you have enough money to pour into investments, you can make returns that some say shouldn’t be taxed at all, and you can write off your losses and vices.  Couple this with the fact that a) most people won’t reach this tipping point in their lifetimes,  and b) the people who have reached it can influence the Government more than everyone else, and you create a serious moral hazard.

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” Actuality it does not even generate that, perhaps 20 0r 25 k.  Times have changed.  If you read “The Millionaire Next Door”  you will be surprised to find that teachers and others you might not expect are the millionaires.  It takes saving it.  It can only be spent once.    Saving is an attitude anyone can assume.

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” Actuality it does not even generate that, perhaps 20 0r 25 k.  Times have changed.  If you read “The Millionaire Next Door”  you will be surprised to find that teachers and others you might not expect are the millionaires.  It takes saving it.  It can only be spent once.    Saving is an attitude anyone can assume.

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest.” Actuality it does not even generate that, perhaps 20 0r 25 k.  Times have changed.  If you read “The Millionaire Next Door”  you will be surprised to find that teachers and others you might not expect are the millionaires.  It takes saving it.  It can only be spent once.    Saving is an attitude anyone can assume.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, it’s absolute nonsense.  I don’t know where these newspaper writers come up with this stuff.  Ten year treasurys are now yielding 1.839% nominal interest, 30 year Treasurys 2.9%.  In fact, real interest rates after inflation are negative.  My bank pays less than 1% on savings accounts.  The highest bank two- year CD rate in Maine isn’t much above 1%.   Even investing in high quality corporates and dividend paying equities these days does not yield a lot of income.  You’d be lucky to make 5% income/year.

    There’s another things that bothers me about this piece.  The writer doesn’t seem to be making a clear distinction between a person who has investments worth $1 million and a person who has an annual income of $1m.  I’m just not sure anymore what “millionaire” and “rich” means, especially when politicians like Obama talk about taxes.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, it’s absolute nonsense.  I don’t know where these newspaper writers come up with this stuff.  Ten year treasurys are now yielding 1.839% nominal interest, 30 year Treasurys 2.9%.  In fact, real interest rates after inflation are negative.  My bank pays less than 1% on savings accounts.  The highest bank two- year CD rate in Maine isn’t much above 1%.   Even investing in high quality corporates and dividend paying equities these days does not yield a lot of income.  You’d be lucky to make 5% income/year.

    There’s another things that bothers me about this piece.  The writer doesn’t seem to be making a clear distinction between a person who has investments worth $1 million and a person who has an annual income of $1m.  I’m just not sure anymore what “millionaire” and “rich” means, especially when politicians like Obama talk about taxes.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, it’s absolute nonsense.  I don’t know where these newspaper writers come up with this stuff.  Ten year treasurys are now yielding 1.839% nominal interest, 30 year Treasurys 2.9%.  In fact, real interest rates after inflation are negative.  My bank pays less than 1% on savings accounts.  The highest bank two- year CD rate in Maine isn’t much above 1%.   Even investing in high quality corporates and dividend paying equities these days does not yield a lot of income.  You’d be lucky to make 5% income/year.

    There’s another things that bothers me about this piece.  The writer doesn’t seem to be making a clear distinction between a person who has investments worth $1 million and a person who has an annual income of $1m.  I’m just not sure anymore what “millionaire” and “rich” means, especially when politicians like Obama talk about taxes.

  • Anonymous

    Even then you’d be lucky to get a 5% return, given that the bank would be taking an annual fee of about 1% of the amount under management, and they’d be making very conservative investments, not likely to generate high income. 

  • Anonymous

    Even then you’d be lucky to get a 5% return, given that the bank would be taking an annual fee of about 1% of the amount under management, and they’d be making very conservative investments, not likely to generate high income. 

  • Anonymous

    Even then you’d be lucky to get a 5% return, given that the bank would be taking an annual fee of about 1% of the amount under management, and they’d be making very conservative investments, not likely to generate high income. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

    Geezus…really Millionaires are not rich??? Give me a break. your version of reality is a myth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

    Geezus…really Millionaires are not rich??? Give me a break. your version of reality is a myth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

    Geezus…really Millionaires are not rich??? Give me a break. your version of reality is a myth.

  • Anonymous

    So if a working person earns that for two decades,assuming no other changes(which we know not to be likely)they would then earn just barely over $1M.High end goods are having their best sales years ever.Little people can’t be bothered with by the big banks.

  • Anonymous

    So if a working person earns that for two decades,assuming no other changes(which we know not to be likely)they would then earn just barely over $1M.High end goods are having their best sales years ever.Little people can’t be bothered with by the big banks.

  • Anonymous

    So if a working person earns that for two decades,assuming no other changes(which we know not to be likely)they would then earn just barely over $1M.High end goods are having their best sales years ever.Little people can’t be bothered with by the big banks.

  • Anonymous

    One sentence in this amazes me.”McCain carried the middle class”Talk about voting against your own self interest!WOW.Remember his quote that he really didn’t know much about the economy and how he ran about like a headless chicken when the financial system failed?

  • Anonymous

    But does this math take into consideration the tax loopholes,breaks,deductions and tax shelters they use to lower the income they pay taxes on?

    I think not

  • Anonymous

    But does this math take into consideration the tax loopholes,breaks,deductions and tax shelters they use to lower the income they pay taxes on?

    I think not

  • Anonymous

    But does this math take into consideration the tax loopholes,breaks,deductions and tax shelters they use to lower the income they pay taxes on?

    I think not

  • Anonymous

    Good rates can be found when you have large sums of money. Just the same, good accountants can be bought (to avoid taxes) when you have large sums of money.

  • Anonymous

    Two things to remember– First, the tax rate the author is whining about is about half of what it was in the fifties and sixties during the “long boom,” also known as the golden age of capitalism, and much less than half what it was during the second world war.

    Second, we are in the middle of a war or three. One demographic is already pretty busy fighting (and recovering from) those wars, so which demographic are we going to ask to pay the bills? I don’t see the millionaires lining up in opposition to the war(s), but they don’t seem to feel like paying the tax rates they’ve traditionally been responsible for during wartime. What a great time to remind us that no, they’re not really rich, they just don’t have to lift a finger to make more than we do, and they shouldn’t be penalized for that!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1316266762 Joshua Delano

    I disagree, if you start working at age 20 (older than most) and retire at 65, then a median income of only 22,222 would give you a gross income of 1 million. given the average income in 2010 was 45,708 in Maine then that would yield an accumulative income of 2,056,860.  That number doesn’t consider any inflation so is very conservative. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1316266762 Joshua Delano

    I agree that rich is a comparative term, however having a million in the bank is a function of saving and spending and not necessarily income.  If you live your life responsibly and do not spend more than you make than it is very reasonable to retire with a million dollars plus in the bank/investments. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1316266762 Joshua Delano

    This doesn’t make sense, if you tax assets then you dwindle the asset to nothing over time and you have no asset in the end.  If you tax income then you have a reoccuring revenue source, and you do not penalize ownership.  The fairest tax model however is a tax solely on consumption that is the most inclusive model which would not penalize those who save.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry..not feeling real enlightened…I’d liken it more to disgusted.

  • Anonymous

    My favorite part: “Being rich has gotten more expensive.”

  • AionNV

    50k a year interest.  How tragic.  Please.

  • AionNV

    I disagree, most working Mainer’s are not 20 years old and starting their careers right now at 45k a year.

    Your assumptions are not just not based in reality, they are laughable.

    Reality check here.

  • Anonymous

    “But dividends are paid out of corporate profits that have already been
    taxed. So Buffet’s equity earnings are doubly taxed: He pays 35 percent
    at the corporate level and 15 percent on his own return.” 

    What a load of hooey.

     If corporations are separate legal entities from their share holders as our Supreme Court seems to think, then the tax they pay is theirs, and not their shareholders and should not be taken into account by that shareholder’s taxes.  If I spend money I have earned (and have already been taxed on) the person who makes a profit off of what I spend should not get taxed because I already paid taxes on it?   Yep, a load of bullpuckey.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joshmedic Josh Dickson

    Flat Tax.

  • Anonymous

    Another shovel load for the manure pile:  “Why throw money into productive assets – those that create income
    through the production of wealth, such as corporate securities or a
    rental property – if the income they generate will be taxed away?”  Your question assumes that the tax is equal to the income and not merely a portion of it.   Why invest in productive assets?  To make money!  You may get to keep only 65% of the profits after taxes instead of 85%, but that’s still better than stuffing it under you mattress (zero rate of return).  And why do you assume the taxes collected are totally removed from the economy?  Tax dollars build roads, educate children, fight wars, hire contractors (like Halliburton). 

    Smells like a dirty horse stall to me.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not just the banks, it’s the federal reserve, too.  It’s the government’s policy to favor debtors and spenders over creditors and savers.  Those who have been careful and who have accumulated some wealth know this and care, but there’s not much they can do about it except take their chances investing in commodities and equities.  That seems to be the current environment.

  • Anonymous

    What’s the rate of return on an annuity these days?  4%?  The issuer is making money on top of that 4%, so the 5% ROR on the million is probably about right.   But the example says that the author is wealthier than most people I know.  5oK a year would be a pretty good raise for most people in Maine.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t forget, the real estate tax is a tax on an asset - a capital tax.  So is the estate tax.  

  • Anonymous

    The tax system already taxes capital gains at different rates depending on the holding period.  Also, and I could be wrong on this, I think that most tax deductions are phased out for high income taxpayers.  I know it used to be that way and that Obama is proposing phase outs for individuals who earn over $200,000. 

  • Anonymous

    Correct on all counts, and I’ll add something.  Anyone who thinks having $1 million in savings makes you “rich” is nuts.

  • Anonymous

    Your facts are all junk. The average income means nothing because of the discrepancy between the wealthy and the poor.  34% of Mainer’s earn minimum wage (or $15, 600/yr).  The next 17 percent earn between minimum wage and $10/hr ($20,800).  Using your average system, that means that the average income of the working poor (51% of Mainers) is conservatively ($18,200) and that’s a generous calculation.  Which means that someone who worked for 50 years would still come up short of a million.

  • Anonymous

    I would hope a lot of working Mainers earn that in a lifetime.  At  $20,000.00 a year, a person who works  50 years earns one million.  That is not a lot of money.

  • Anonymous

    The proposal I heard was to tax those making $1M PER YEAR, not those with $1M in total assets.  Big difference…

  • clamcove

    You are nuts in this economy, 5% is not easy to get. You might earn it taking some wild risks, but otherwise it is playing out as the sage of Omaha predicted with year after year of low returns. Please, don’t make it sound so easy to earn 5%. Just tell me where…..

  • Anonymous

    If you want to argue that $1 million a year isn’t rich, then you have to also argue that the median of about $50,000 is absolutely impoverished. You can’t have it both ways, saying that a million isn’t much and they can’t afford more taxes, while simultaneously saddling the middle class (who make 1/20 of what isn’t considered rich anymore) with the country’s debt for decades to come. Especially when a large part of that debt constitutes the effects of tax write offs and loopholes that mainly benefit those making more than a million a year. It’s illogical.

  • Anonymous

    Well, I’ve never been into annuities, so I don’t know much about them and what they’re returning.  I do know, however, that they provide less flexibility than an investment portfolio of stocks and bonds and that they only provide payments during a term of years, typically one’s lifetime.  Then, unlike an investment portfolio, there’s nothing left to leave your children.  It’s not something that would interest me.  But I think you’re right about the author perhaps having an annuity and basing his rate of return on that.

  • Anonymous

    Even credit unions– which used to be known for their good savings account rates– now pay squat. My CU Maine Savings pays .10 percent. one TENTH of one percent. My parents always stressed the importance of putting money in the bank to grow, now its not even worth it. Ive made eleven cents so far this year.

  • Anonymous

    Even credit unions– which used to be known for their good savings account rates– now pay squat. My CU Maine Savings pays .10 percent. one TENTH of one percent. My parents always stressed the importance of putting money in the bank to grow, now its not even worth it. Ive made eleven cents so far this year.

  • Anonymous

    20k a year? to me thats living large.

  • Anonymous

    20k a year? to me thats living large.

  • Anonymous

    a “mere” 52,000? Youre filthy freakin rich in my book!  Dont whine until youve lived on $13,200 with no welfare. 

  • Anonymous

    a “mere” 52,000? Youre filthy freakin rich in my book!  Dont whine until youve lived on $13,200 with no welfare. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJEUWEYRHIPWV3PTTWWNUZ2CTQ mcmaineacjam

    I work for an organization with about 4 mil in the bank and we get less then one half a percent.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJEUWEYRHIPWV3PTTWWNUZ2CTQ mcmaineacjam

    I work for an organization with about 4 mil in the bank and we get less then one half a percent.

  • Anonymous

         I was so moved by this article that I’m going to go into Bangor tomorrow and beg for donations for these unappreciated job creators! If everyone did this, we’d have something to do in our idle time and the creators could concentrate on helping us all!
         I certainly wouldn’t want to tear them from their estates, private jets, and limos! 

  • Anonymous

         I was so moved by this article that I’m going to go into Bangor tomorrow and beg for donations for these unappreciated job creators! If everyone did this, we’d have something to do in our idle time and the creators could concentrate on helping us all!
         I certainly wouldn’t want to tear them from their estates, private jets, and limos! 

  • Anonymous

    beck and rush of course the only truth out there

  • Anonymous

    beck and rush of course the only truth out there

  • Anonymous

    why would the truth disgust you you should feel lucky some finally got printed

  • Anonymous

    why would the truth disgust you you should feel lucky some finally got printed

  • Anonymous

    Obama’s failed economic policies affect us all.
    Time for change.

  • AionNV

    Is that a euphemism for “working poor” ?

  • AionNV

    Don’t confuse the usual suspects here with the facts, they have an agenda that defies them.

  • AionNV

    Repeating a lie over and over doesn’t make it true.

    But it does make you a tool.

  • AionNV

    Stubborn ignorance is doing you more harm than your poverty.

  • Anonymous

    Defender of the rich?  Very noble.

  • Anonymous

    You have got to be kidding, those two wouldn’t know the truth if it hit them in the head. I thought you might have some realiable source but I see you don’t.
    Even Fox News couldn’t stand the lies from Beck and sent him packing, that has got to tell you something.

  • Anonymous

    You may have misspelled the last word I think it should have started with an f.

  • Anonymous

    “Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs. And jobs are an unalloyed good thing for an economy.”

    Corporations are sitting on big profits — not creating jobs, not investing. They are enjoying the lowest tax rates in history. Sounds like John Steele Gordon doesn’t want to pay higher taxes.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3NFZUIXF7T2TZ3U6EQPJUCTNPY Herman Capac

    Republicans would have you believe that multimillionaires
    are a rare natural resource that must be protected. If we are not
    extremely  careful, if we don’t take
    every measure to protect them from the outside world, if we would go so far as
    to MAKE THEM PAY TAXES, they won’t “create jobs” for us and we will all suffer.
    Obama wants to tax the “job creators”! That’s what John Boehner will tell you. People!
    This is not how the economy works! “Having money” does not equal “creating jobs”!
    The multimillionaires who work on Wall Street are not creating jobs—they are
    moving other peoples’ money around on paper, giving some to the people that already
    have money (investors), and taking some for themselves. They are working the
    system in order to figure out how to extract more money from labor. They are
    not “creating jobs.”  Jobs are created,
    VALUE is created, by innovative thinking. Figuring out a way of making nothing
    into something—creating industry in the truest sense—turning plastic and
    silicon into the personal computer a la Bill Gates (pre-bazillionaire Bill
    Gates)—that is how jobs are created. If we lived in a society that poured money
    into educating children the way we pour money into bombing people in other
    countries maybe we’d foster a new generation of innovative thinkers. Maybe we
    could solve world problems, maybe we could quell violence and help people that
    are in need.

    Oh wait, I sound just like one of those “crazy liberals” you heard
    about from your good buddy Rupert Murdoch, don’t I? Totally and  absolutely crazy. Who would believe in working
    toward peace and compassion for all? At a time like this? We’re in a war against terror, a war against drugs, and a war against  Islam. We have to fight Obama, “big government”,  and the gays! Better just go back to work. Work hard. Be proud. USA! USA! USA!

  • Anonymous

    yeah that is off mortgage rates are lower then that now

  • Anonymous

    lower interest rates encourage people to take on more debt  like if i drop my rate a whole percent i could buy alot more house.

  • Anonymous

    Whats your percentage cause right now im around 33% and its bull  

  • Anonymous

    ok the median was $45,734 that takes away the extremely rich and poor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income 
    and you said working which mean all workers
    also (1000000/ 20800) + 16 year equals 64 so thats not counting inflation or there ability to earn more with a gradual increase formual for them making more with more experience  

  • Anonymous

    im 25 mking 131000 this year does that count when i was 20 i was making 72000 so the laughs on you

  • Anonymous

    shoot i wouldn’t bother if they offered me that for only a month of work

  • Anonymous

    didn’t know all the corpations where actually machines watch out its sky net run Dlbrt run the terminators are coming RUN

  • Anonymous

    so money is made and taxed how many times?

  • Anonymous

    i did then i said screw that and went to school

  • Anonymous

    heres a fact if you make more then 7000 a year you are considered rich according to the world

  • Anonymous

    so disgus

  • Martin Arostica

    this is me playing the worlds smallest violin to this whole article

  • Martin Arostica

    The banking and investment options are wildly different for people with incomes that high. People opening a savings or CD with that initial investment often negotiate their own rates.

  • Martin Arostica

    Again to the average person making 50 grand a year you can’t get rates like that, but the the more money you have the higher rates you get in many savings and CD plans.

  • Anonymous

    Odd, I was going to post the exact same words.

  • Anonymous

    Please wait while I laugh then barf.

  • Anonymous

    Oh dear! The horror.

  • Anonymous

    “Having $1M in net worth hardly makes you rich. Everyone knows that.”

    Tell that to the families who live near or below the poverty line. Tell that to normal middle class folks. Tell that to yourself as you fall to sleep on your million dollar matress.

    What are you smoking?

  • Anonymous

    This is very true.

    http://www.globalrichlist.com/

    Put in your income and you will see how rich you actually are, compared to the rest of the world.

  • Anonymous

    If you took a minute to listen to beck you would see thateverything he says he gives you the source to olook into it yourself and develop your own opinion open up your little liberal pea brains 

  • Anonymous

    If you’re very, very lucky. Most will die either broke or nearly broke.

  • Anonymous

    This is a poorly written article.  You’re right – you cannot get 5% from a bank, but a good, lucky or smart invester could get a 5% or somewhat better return.

  • Anonymous

    This is a poorly written article.  You’re right – you cannot get 5% from a bank, but a good, lucky or smart invester could get a 5% or somewhat better return.

  • Anonymous

    The myth that “Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs” is a lie! 

    The middle class creates jobs by having buying power.  That is how jobs are created.  People buying things.  Millionaires can only buy so many houses, cars and other things.  It’s consumption by a strong and hopefully growing middle class that truly increases demand and increased demand creates jobs.

    This article is baised beyond words and is wrong headed for defending the truly rich.  “Boo-hoo” for hedge fund managers who can make $100 MILLION a year and more, some much more.  They can afford a little more.

  • Anonymous

    The myth that “Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs” is a lie! 

    The middle class creates jobs by having buying power.  That is how jobs are created.  People buying things.  Millionaires can only buy so many houses, cars and other things.  It’s consumption by a strong and hopefully growing middle class that truly increases demand and increased demand creates jobs.

    This article is baised beyond words and is wrong headed for defending the truly rich.  “Boo-hoo” for hedge fund managers who can make $100 MILLION a year and more, some much more.  They can afford a little more.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Thanks,

        I would of tryed to explain it again but instead it justs makes a good example why No Child Left Behind was such a failure.

    You just cant educate a certain segment of the population.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7T3YNF6MG3FPEAVTFIJC44VQUI Dlbrt

    Thanks,

        I would of tryed to explain it again but instead it justs makes a good example why No Child Left Behind was such a failure.

    You just cant educate a certain segment of the population.

  • Anonymous

    Just a hunch, but I don’t think saving and money management will ever be one of your priorities.

  • Anonymous

    Just a hunch, but I don’t think saving and money management will ever be one of your priorities.

  • Anonymous

    I agree that people with a lot of money have more investment options.  It’s said that in order to make a little money it takes a lot of money, and that’s never been more true than in today’s investment climate.  A 5% yield is very good.

  • Anonymous

    T-bills, not banks give back around 5%

  • Anonymous

    that’s the secret, if you show up with $1 mil then THEY will tell you how to get 5% interest, no sooner tho.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Christopher-Ruhlin/1588252249 Christopher Ruhlin

    This article is absurd. A new low for BDN

  • Anonymous

    Exactly, this article is nonsense to begin with.  Using the $50k of income per or 5% return, on average, this individual with $1mil in income has $20mil in equity.  Additionally, anyone generating that type of income has to be concerned about continuing the same level of income, thus you’d need to reinvest a certain amount of your profits.  Think of inflation over just a 10- 20 year period.  Assuming their reinvesting only 10% of their income it now means they have at least, this is a minimum, $25 million in the bank.  I think that’s enough for most of us to feel wealthy.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly, this article is nonsense to begin with.  Using the $50k of income per or 5% return, on average, this individual with $1mil in income has $20mil in equity.  Additionally, anyone generating that type of income has to be concerned about continuing the same level of income, thus you’d need to reinvest a certain amount of your profits.  Think of inflation over just a 10- 20 year period.  Assuming their reinvesting only 10% of their income it now means they have at least, this is a minimum, $25 million in the bank.  I think that’s enough for most of us to feel wealthy.

  • Anonymous

    Note to BDN Editor: There seems to be a wide range of opinion and perhaps confusion about prevailing interest rates for bank CDs. Why not do your readers a service by assigning a business reporter to survey Maine banks, Treasury issues, etc., and publish a comparative study of their going rates for various types of accounts and deposit amounts? 

  • Anonymous

    Note to BDN Editor: There seems to be a wide range of opinion and perhaps confusion about prevailing interest rates for bank CDs. Why not do your readers a service by assigning a business reporter to survey Maine banks, Treasury issues, etc., and publish a comparative study of their going rates for various types of accounts and deposit amounts? 

  • Anonymous

    Hey, good hunch. Silly me I was busy feeding my kids. Great that you are so wealthy. Oops! Sorry, I meant it’s a shame that you’re ‘not-at-all-well-to-do-despite-claiming-greatness-on-an-anonymous-message-board.’

    Just a hunch on my part; actual millionaires spend preciously little time on the Internet bragging about their bank accounts.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, good hunch. Silly me I was busy feeding my kids. Great that you are so wealthy. Oops! Sorry, I meant it’s a shame that you’re ‘not-at-all-well-to-do-despite-claiming-greatness-on-an-anonymous-message-board.’

    Just a hunch on my part; actual millionaires spend preciously little time on the Internet bragging about their bank accounts.

  • Anonymous

    A short term solution to increase discretionary income would be a CCC-type federal jobs program that puts millions to work, whether it’s rebuilding roads and bridges or digging holes and filling them. There are most likely better ideas out there that focus on paid retraining and government subsidies to employers for hiring that should be explored. As you pointed out, this increase in gross income would jump start demand and the programs could be sunsetted to economic recovery. The private sector is not cutting it turning the economic mess around, therefore drastic measures are required.  All this assumes that you’re not married to the idea that cutting debt is the first item on the agenda and that helping people heat their homes and put food on the table may also be a determining factor.

  • Anonymous

    A short term solution to increase discretionary income would be a CCC-type federal jobs program that puts millions to work, whether it’s rebuilding roads and bridges or digging holes and filling them. There are most likely better ideas out there that focus on paid retraining and government subsidies to employers for hiring that should be explored. As you pointed out, this increase in gross income would jump start demand and the programs could be sunsetted to economic recovery. The private sector is not cutting it turning the economic mess around, therefore drastic measures are required.  All this assumes that you’re not married to the idea that cutting debt is the first item on the agenda and that helping people heat their homes and put food on the table may also be a determining factor.

  • Anonymous

    Just as we have the haves who purportedly create jobs, who increasingly pay less to the nots, in order for the haves to have more.

  • Anonymous

    Just as we have the haves who purportedly create jobs, who increasingly pay less to the nots, in order for the haves to have more.

  • Anonymous

    Did i wake up this morning in a different world.The BDN allowing this article to
    escape from the liberal media.BDN must realize that printing the truth will
    increase their circulation.Kudo’s to the BDN

  • Anonymous

    Did i wake up this morning in a different world.The BDN allowing this article to
    escape from the liberal media.BDN must realize that printing the truth will
    increase their circulation.Kudo’s to the BDN

  • Anonymous

    link please would like to get this rate

  • Gene Hutchins

    The Obama’s administration record of decisions & policies being successful is cause to very skeptical.    Reason #5  is rock solid reason for keeping things as they are.  Or better yet,… how a bout a flat tax,  That is the best egalitarian solution !!!

  • Gene Hutchins

    The Obama’s administration record of decisions & policies being successful is cause to very skeptical.    Reason #5  is rock solid reason for keeping things as they are.  Or better yet,… how a bout a flat tax,  That is the best egalitarian solution !!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_APVY6G6ITCLZCM2P6GM7UZIIY4 Douglas

    35%  so I got ya by two percent :))

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_APVY6G6ITCLZCM2P6GM7UZIIY4 Douglas

    35%  so I got ya by two percent :))

  • Anonymous

    Oh boo hoo hoo…Only a rag like the Washington Post could produce this drivel. Millionaires are not all the same??? Line ‘em up and take a snapshot…will all the African-Americans and Hispanics please step forward. 

    Is this guy really claiming that a million in the bank will only earn you $50,000 a year???? So we should feel bad for millionaires because they could sit on their butts and still pull in per year roughly $8,000 more than the Maine per capita???

    Get a life, you elitist shill.   

  • Anonymous

    Capital gains and dividend taxes ARE secondary taxes: that’s why they’re at the lower rate.

    Example: I earn $100,000. I am taxed. At the end of the year I have $10,000 left over after taxes, so I invest it in Corporation XYZ. XYZ issues me a dividend. The dividend is taxed as well. So my the money used for the investment is taxed, as is the profit from the investment.

    That said, I have no problem raising the capital gains/dividend taxes on those earning over $1M. We as a nation have already decided to double tax, there no good reason why we can’t adjust the rate to be progressive.

  • Anonymous

    No, you didn’t wake up in a different world. Maybe you finally just started paying attention. The BDN regularly posts Washington Post articles.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah and I saw on Fox news, that the majority of poor people have fridges and microwaves. So, the poor aren’t really poor and the rich aren’t really rich.

    What a bunch of bull.

  • Anonymous

    “Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest” ….. My Husband and I didn’t even make that last year and we have a child to support. I’m not worried about trying to be rich…I’m worried about keeping a home, stocked with food and heat, and auto insurance which is mandatory even though I haven’t been in or caused a car accident since 99 or 2000 (so long ago I really can’t remember). Hey family who thinks they need 5 mil to be rich….walk a year in my shoes and then reassess your own situation…..

  • Anonymous

    How much have you been fee’d by your bank to make that .11 cents? It’s almost better to put it under your mattress it seems….

  • Anonymous

    How many mainers at 20 are making at or around 22,222? 

  • Anonymous

    Most corporations, other than a few highly visible ones, are not sitting on big profits. Many are struggling to stay alive.

  • Anonymous

    And when your stock market job disappears…..hope you have money tucked away! But congrats on your great success thus far in life 8)

  • Bob Pitas

    That’s exactly the trap we’ve fallen into – the Fed artificially reducing interest rates has motivated bad behavior in the public.  Having the market drive interest rates (as advocated by Ron Paul) would be much safer, and would have the side effect of motivating more fiscally conservative behavior.

  • Anonymous

    Theoretically. But do you know anyone that can successfully get by the new regulations in order to purchase a new home?

  • Anonymous

    We are all double, triple, quadruple taxed every day…..I buy and item, I pay tax. I sell sed item at a reduced rate because of depreciation and I am taxed again……The money I make is taxed….then it is taxed again when I spend it….then it is taxed again if I save it……I’m not really sure why the fact that they are taxed on pre taxed money is any different….

  • AionNV

    You should be spending some of that money on your education.

    I think you’re an obvious liar.

  • AionNV

    Roughly, as often as it trades hands, which is to say, almost as often as it is used to purchase goods and services.

    But this is basic economics, something you’d be compleatly oblivious to.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AZ547KTBXZ54FSWGWROBQ25OQY Dale

    Please tell me the name of a Bank that will give me 5% interest on a million.  Best I can get right now, today is about 1.2% and for that I have to commit to 5 years.  With a 1 year commitment, I can get about 1%.   Some Banks are at .4%.    .4% on a cool million is $4,000 per year.

  • Anonymous

    Many small business escape this double taxation (and they really call it that) by legal means. They organize themselves as LLC’s or S-Corps. The corporation pays no tax.
    The odd thing is this allows the stats to be skewed so libs can claim that millions of companies pay no tax, because it is true.  (Making business sound illegal deceitful and greedy and tax evading) The income tax is paid on the individual return.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    so it generates what an average person makes in a year….without having to do anything? Why should that deserve pitty?

  • Anonymous

    As long as loopholes that lower the amount paid are closed….It’s probably the only fair way

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FAFPBUNT45MDVT46IWVGOEDQLQ Thomas

    This article misses the point.  Obama’s issue, as he stated in 2008, is his definition of ‘fairness’. He does not believe it is fair that capital is taxed less than income. As with all socialists, Obama wants income from capital taxed as ‘earned income’.  He does not recognize (or want to recognize) that income from capital is economically different from ‘earned income’ – the money we earn by working.  Capital is accumulated in primarily two ways: first, through the purchase of assets using your earned income (savings); and second, by rolling the gain from the capital owned.  In the case of the former, the sayings used to purchase the capital; has already been taxed as income; in the case of the latter, although the income has not been taxed as earned, the owner is not guaranteed a return: he is risking his principle for a chance of a return.  Income from working is never a risk…outside of bankruptcy or fraud, if an employee works as contracted, he gets paid.  By taxing investment income less than earned income, the government is encouraging the taxpayer who has capital to invest to do so by taxing him at a rate that makes his risk palatable.  The higher the tax, the less likely the investor will take a risk; in fact a some point the investor may make the decision to invest his capital in cash and pay no taxes at all. In my opinion, Obama understands this but he does not ‘approve’ of it because he does not believe in capitalism…his core belief mirrors that of European Social Democrats….capitalism is a necessary evil and that a portion of its return that must be held re-distributed to those without it.  The problem with the Social Democratic belief is that it ignores the fact that over the past 300 years it has been the pure capitalism of Great Britain and the United States that has created the wonders of modern society.  A look at the non-capitalist world gives us a clear picture of the alternative: the collectives of Soviet Socialism and the ‘anti-interest’ dogma of Islam.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/KDMRSL5HKU74ZRBFCR2QEEDKVA KRIEGAR

    I would find it highly doubtful that your circumstance reflects that of “most” people your age.

  • Anonymous

    “ But dividends are paid out of corporate profits that have already been taxed. So Buffet’s equity earnings are doubly taxed: He pays 35 percent at the corporate level and 15 percent on his own return.”  Excuse me, but the money in my savings account was also taxed when I earned it, so what’s your point?

  • Anonymous

    Sounds like the writer is making a case for the “Trickle Down Theory”.  I don’t know about you, but I’m sick and tired of being trickled on!

  • Anonymous

    Are you kidding me?  You need to find another bank!

  • Anonymous

    You need to shop around. I know for a fact that regular CD’s (by regular, I mean $500 and up) are paying 2% at my bank for 5 years.

  • Anonymous

    “Having $1M in net worth hardly makes you rich”

    Agreed. And Obama’s proposal says nothing about those with $1M in assets, which is why I don’t see the point of this article.

    $1M per year: now THAT is definitely rich by anyone’s standard.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly, and if you went into a smaller bank with a cool million, and said you wanted to get 5% interest per year, they would manage it so you got the 4% interest they can afford to give to everyone, plus a point more out of the bank’s profit because your million frees up how much of banks reserve funds ? 
    With a cool million, you’d get the kind of deal that the bankers do, is the point.  If you believe that real moneyed people get treated like us, the little people, then you are silly enough to think they are already taxed enough, and that they are being taxed like you are, too, I guess.  SO, JUST ONE QUESTION: If tax cuts to the wealthy create jobs, and economic growth, where is all that growth and the all those jobs, that should be a result of the The Bush Tax Cuts  for the Wealthy ? Doing the same thing over and over expecting different result, is what is the real  ”nuts” do, Clamcove. 

  • Anonymous

    Ask about the banks preferred stock. 
    If you don’t know how to talk to them, you’re just a mark, not a preferred client. 

  • Anonymous

    So the IRS is lying?   Those figures are averages.  For 2009 the IRS figures show that those making over $1 million paid 24.4% of their income in income tax, those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid 9.9% and those between S50,000 & $60,000 paid 6.3%.  For total federal taxes paid the Tax Policy Center estimates that those making over $1 million paid 29.1% of their income and those making between $50,000 & $75,000 paid 15%. One of the reason you are above the average is you choose to earn money as self-employed instead as a Corp.  You see the coporation pays 1/2 the FICA then and not included in your calculation.  Dlbrt can explain how corporate taxes can’t be used in your calculation.

  • Anonymous

    The “phase out” for itemized deductions was phased out as part of the Bush tax cuts.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/KDMRSL5HKU74ZRBFCR2QEEDKVA KRIEGAR

    Quite the opposite, actually.Liberal+pea brain=oxymoron “moron”=conservative+pea brain. Do try to keep up…and have a nice day :).

  • Anonymous

    I guess, then, everyone should be able to see the disparity, and how it is growing, between the wealthy and vast majority of Americans, 
     how tax cuts for the wealthy have NOT  increased general economic growth,  
    how deregulation nearly destroyed the whole cannibalistic ( a spell check word option that I liked better than “capitalistic” )   economic system worldwide,  
    and how little the facts support right wing politics … from all the fine posts above. So are we only about being personally right (wing and lefties), now, or  is anyone else ready to start really looking for solutions ? If not,  must we really keep pretending  to respect the one trick political ponies that can win elections, if they run on a different party’s ticket, but who can’t compromise, so can’t  get anything done ? 

  • Anonymous

    if you invest at the bank you will always be poor… they mean the stock market

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/KDMRSL5HKU74ZRBFCR2QEEDKVA KRIEGAR

    The very idea that anyone could consider this as a “double taxation” is so utterly ludicrous that it borders on being criminal. Honestly, does any single one of you who support this tripe intend on allowing them to convince YOU as those “lower class” people (because, frankly, as less than a millionaire, you are ALL the “lower class” people), that they are right, and you are that STUPID?

    The corporation brings in the money, feeds itself, grows itself, and saves for its’ future and downturns in its’ economy. After those expenditures, what is considered “left over” is declared profit, and distributed as dividend. All other monies before dividend are income of the corporation, and for the corporation. All dividends are profit, and income to the stockholders, and thusly are taxed. This ain’t rocket science Buford.

  • Anonymous

    If deductions were ended, sure, then the corporate taxes would be paid. 

    The only reason it can be said that the US corporate tax rates are among the highest in the world, is because the base rates have to be very high to make up for all the exceptions, sweetheart deals, and deductions that have been added to the tax code,  for years, as a temporarily fixes for economic vulgarities, but which never end. 

    One example of that is Bush’s Tax Cut for the Wealthy, isn’t it ? . 

  • Anonymous

    “Both dlbt and Buffet may be getting senile.”
    There is a possibility, I guess, but is that really the best conservative point that you have to make on the tax code ?  

    Even it is true, how does it effect the economy, and what conservative solutions are going to be based on that , Winterporter ?  

    LOL. 

  • Anonymous

    Their agenda is denial. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Kelsey/1322512308 John Kelsey

    Try changing your moniker.  A simple lookup of T-Bill rates would show you getting .01, .03, and .10 for 3 month, 6 month, and 12 months.  Basically, you are getting nothing.

  • Anonymous

    Great post Bangorian.

     Always question authority and political conservative’s math.  

  • Anonymous

    So now we all know why you are the cmplainer who hates anyone who works hard and is successfull. You live on 13,000 because you want to live in your own misery.

  • Anonymous

    your absolutely correct…… and  Obama wants to start a war, a media political war.. the poor minorites (a very large voting sector) against the “wealthy millionaires”  along with those hard working succesfulls…… he know its easy to hate a rich person,,, we see it every day on this site. Lets hate the millionaire’s ..I hope it backfires like the rest of his ideas… many of his colleages are millionaires

  • Anonymous

    A Millionaire may not be rich in DC, where this was written, but darnit, they’d be rich here in Bangor!

  • Anonymous

    What? Seriously?

    Couldn’t be further from the truth.

  • Anonymous

    But by the sounds of it you’d also rag on people on welfare for having the same logic?

  • Anonymous

    That’s a joke, right?  Please god, I hope so.

  • Anonymous

    Just because you can cite a source doesn’t mean it’s true.  Haven’t you ever heard “Don’t believe everythnig that you read”.  That goes TRIPLE for the internet.

  • Anonymous

    Is this what’s it’s come to. Now the rich have to try to influence voters by making us feel sorry for them. Sorry, but they’ve had the deck stacked in their favor through special government tax loopholes and subsidies and they are actively working to screw the rest of us by bribing Congress and especially the susceptible Republicans every single day.

  • Anonymous

    Dude, you should check out a few of the happiest and wealthiest societies in the world:

    Norway
    Sweden
    Denmark
    Finland.

    All social democracies.

  • Anonymous

    Capitalism in its pure form is anarchy.  It is a marketplace where there are no rules and protections.  It is unsustainable as investors can not find safe investments in this type of system.  As for America being socialist, this is absurd at face value.  We do less for our citizens here than almost any industrialized country in the world.  You are an Ayn Rand enstyled anachist, it seems.  The hypocrisy underlying all of that is astounding. 

    Taxing the wealthy less than the middle class perpetuates the trend of all of the spoils go to the rich as well as removing the potential to lift ones self out of poverty.  America only became a great world economic power because it applied sensible regulation that allowed investors to make reasonable investments with little risk of corruption or boom and bust losses every other year.  The other reason was the ability to work hard and change your standing in society.  The current tax code and wage situation have erased that potential. 

    Capitalism is not a theory of government, but of economics.  There is no moral compass in pure capitalism.  It exemplifies greed and is easily corrupted if there are not regulations.  Your Randian world is not reality, nor could it be.  Stripped of opportunity, the people will tear down any structure that stands in their way.  Your social experiment cannot succeed in the real world.

  • Anonymous

    Closed minded people refuse to accept that everything is not better here in America.  We have been stagnating while the rest of the world has passed us by.  These countries have learned how to improve the lives of their people while at the same time creating an excellent environment for businesses to grow and thrive.  At the heart of it is a belief that together, with a good education and healthy people, the country can succeed.  America can be great again, but we must shed the short sighted greed that has made progress a bad word.

  • Anonymous

    not really accurate, as in other places you dont need to earn big money to have your health.  Tell someone who is sick with cancer and making 7k with no insurance that they are rich. The fact is they will die quickly from their disease and the “poor” person in Europe would get the care.  How is that “rich” in any meaningful way?

  • Anonymous

    I hereby promise to do my best to feel rich if I have a net income of 7 digits or more.

  • Anonymous

    34% of Mainers earn minimum wage?  The last DOL report I saw states that 2.7% of wage earners earn the minimum wage. 

  • Anonymous

    And you accept his statement that 34% of Mainers earn the minimum wage at face value?

  • Anonymous

    You’ve nicely summed it up in a nutshell.

  • Anonymous

    Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, either, and that’s more than a hunch.  It’s a fact, based on what you have concluded from my postings.  If you disagree, please point out exactly what I have said that amounts to “claiming-greatness”, and point out exactly what I have about my wealth or lack of it.   

  • Anonymous

    Actually, negative real interest, which is less than nothing.  At least through the 10- year treasury, which now yields 1.902%.

  • Anonymous

    I’m reminded the the quote from Warren Buffet who claims he doesn’t pay enough taxes. When asked why he doesn’t volutarily pay more taxes he replied, “I think on balance the Gates foundation, my daughter’s foundation and my two sons foundations will do a better job with lower adminstrative costs & better selection of beneficiaries than the government.” Most of his wealth is in shares of Berkshire Hathaway stock which he is turning into foundations. He has not sold those stock so he has not paid any personal income tax on any gain. He doen’t plan to pay much more tax and he does not have confidence in how the goverment is managing the money it already has.

  • Anonymous

    “heres a fact if you make more then 7000 a year you are considered rich according to the world”
    Is that full medical and dental benefits, or not ?  

  • Anonymous

    Not all together true.  Interest rates on treasury issues are market based.  The Fed can “influence” them but not determine them.  The fact that US treasury rates are so low is because they are still deemed the absolute safest investment in the world.  Right now, in fact, ten year treasuries are so low that adjusted for inflation, they are negative in real dollar terms.  This is to say that the US can borrow money at a negative interest rate.  Much of this is based on the Chinese requiring these instruments in order to continue their growth.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you.  I wasn’t sure about the current treatment of deduction phaseouts.  I probably confused them with the higher tax liability caused by the AMT.  I think I read somewhere that Obama is proposing phaseouts for individual income over $200,000 and joint income over $250,000.

  • Anonymous

    Please share, I know of no new regulations that prevent people from buying real estate.  Rates are low, supply abounds, prices are at a low for the decade…

    If by regulation you mean that you have to have good credit to qualify, that makes sense to me and all of the other home owners who don’t want to have abandoned properties next door. 

    If by regulation, you mean Dodd-Frank, you should thank your lucky stars that many of the ways that the banks pulled a fast one on us are no longer possible. 

    Now if we could find a way to get more regulation to stop Wall Street gambling on our failures, we might be able to piece together some wins.

  • Anonymous

    One sure way to help people understand who pays what would be to require public traded corporations to make public how much they pay in taxes.  This would only require a simple rule change from the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB).  Once we are able to see how little taxes corporations pay, it will give us the ability to decipher what each of us are required to do to pay for the America we live in.  The wealth of the top 400 has skyrocketed.  This list was a national secret until 2009 when the President declassified it through executive order. 

    Millionaires and people who earn a million a year are two separate things.  Those who make over a million a year have not experienced the same recession we all have.  They have collectively recovered all of the losses and are very handsomely back in the black ink.  As for the rest of us, the actual burden is growing due to the lack of wage growth for the last 30 years.

    As for me, I pay a higher rate of taxes than almost any millionaire.  I get no deductions beyond the standard, and I cannot claim my stay at home life partner as a dependent (or spouse).  Therefor I pay an additional 3,000 or so a year and not only don’t get anything for it, I get a little less liberty than others.  This system is broken.  Flatter and simpler make sense but without deductions.  That is fair.  I doubt the accountants will let that happen.  This tax code benefits them richly.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with what you say about flatter, simpler, and without deductions.  I wish they’d just do away with deductions, for all taxpayers.

  • Anonymous

    Sure. My friend has a 800  fico score. He owns a home in Falmouth. He wanted to buy a second home in Cumberland. He had a 15% down payment. He was declined because even though he could make the payments.  The question he failed to answer to their satisfaction was why did he need another home just one town over?   They said they had to follow the regulations.

  • Anonymous

    The GOP oppose tax increases for the wealthy because that’s what the nation’s aristocrats demand. Not to mention flag-waving good ‘ol boys who watch Fox News, quote conservative radio hosts, and view tax increases as an affront to capitalism, apple pie, and Jesus himself.

    http://7spiderrico.blogspot.com/2011/09/obama-must-go-to-war-in-washington.html 

  • Anonymous

    True in part. But Fed purchases are designed to drive rates down.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-09-21/federal-reserve-meeting/50488652/1

  • Anonymous

    Dodd and Frank should be in jail. They are a major reason we are in this mess forcing loans to people who could not afford them….

  • Anonymous

    If you are fortunate enough to make a hundred grand per year hear me out:  

    The guy who makes a $1,000,000 per year has a lower tax rate than you. 

    Your FICA tax is paid all year.  The million dollar buddy pays his in 6 weeks.

    His dividends are taxed at a lower rate than the withdrawals from your IRA by at least a third.

    Most CEOs of the largest corporations make $10 Million, yet still have a retirement package that approaches 9 figures.  Everyone knows how hard it is to save on a multimillion dollar salary.

    So while you struggle to save for your kids college because you make too much at 100k, the guy making 100 times as much is laughing at you because you think you can be just like him.  Think about that the next time your IRA/401k statement shows up and is down 20%.  The CEO retirement package will still be intact and will be the size of the city of bangor’s budget.  The corporate jet will still take him to Bar Harbor in the summer, and Cancun in the winter. 

  • Anonymous

    If you are fortunate enough to make a hundred grand per year hear me out:  

    The guy who makes a $1,000,000 per year has a lower tax rate than you. 

    Your FICA tax is paid all year.  The million dollar buddy pays his in 6 weeks.

    His dividends are taxed at a lower rate than the withdrawals from your IRA by at least a third.

    Most CEOs of the largest corporations make $10 Million, yet still have a retirement package that approaches 9 figures.  Everyone knows how hard it is to save on a multimillion dollar salary.

    So while you struggle to save for your kids college because you make too much at 100k, the guy making 100 times as much is laughing at you because you think you can be just like him.  Think about that the next time your IRA/401k statement shows up and is down 20%.  The CEO retirement package will still be intact and will be the size of the city of bangor’s budget.  The corporate jet will still take him to Bar Harbor in the summer, and Cancun in the winter. 

  • Anonymous

    How is that the Millionaires problem. That is the people that chose to live and work in Maine….if you do not like what you make change what you do…it is call Personal Responsibility…something the left seems to want to ignore these days…

  • Anonymous

    Second homes are riskier to a bank because we only NEED one to keep us warm and dry. The default risk on second properties is higher. Higher default risk means higher standards to make the loan. Yes this is regulation, but it keeps local banks with healthy cash reserves. Would you prefer to see bankers able to make bad or riskier loans? We tried this, it is what got us here. Regulations protect the marketplace from ill-advised gambling. Further, most of the time that call is based more on the banks internal regulations and requirements than the government. The feds regulations trump when fed guarantees are involved. If the loan is good enough, the bank will not seek the guarantee.

  • Anonymous

    Forcing loans, really… You don;t mention the mortgage companies like Countrywide that actually reviewed the loans of people who made less than the monthly nut? Or Bank of America that packaged them as A rated and sold them to the world? You blame Chris Dodd for grabbing their hands and forcing that pen to sign below… yeah maybe, no!

  • Anonymous

    Yes, they “influence” rates by printing money or buying back bonds or just by talking about it. The market determines what they are really worth at the end of the day.

  • Anonymous

    Who are you too say what “Rich” is…I am so tired of the left and the BS class warfare…stop worrying about others and get off your a_s and change your situation if you do not like it…there should be a flat tax across the board…being successful should not be punished

  • Anonymous

    who the heck are you to say what rich is a million is not rich by any stretch
     

  • Anonymous

    Flat tax is the only way to go…I am tired of being punished for working hard and being successful
     

  • Anonymous

    What other people have has no relevance..if you are living in poverty get off your a_s and doing something about it and stop blaming everyone else for your friggin problems

  • Anonymous

    No I do not have to argue about anything because those people making 50k are not my concern….if they do not like it they have the opportunity like everyone else to change the situation….a Flat Tax in this country is where we should be headed…stop punishing those who actually worked and got ahead as opposed to living off the government teet

  • Anonymous

    The 35% rate for corporations is not the actual tax burden because of deductions and loopholes.  the actual tax burden for a US corporation is 1.8% (2009, US Treasury).   US corps enjoy the lowest tax burden in the world. 

    Mr. Buffet therefor pays less than 17% in tax.  I make somewhat less than 100K and pay an actual 26% federal and another 6+% to the state.  How does it make sense that I pay nearly twice what a billionaire pays?

  • Anonymous

    Get over it if you do not like your situation change it…just like everyone else in this country you were given the same opportunities as the rest of us…quit sitting on your A_S and whining and blaming everyone else for your inability or laziness

  • Anonymous

    Exactly instead of tough love and telling the Have Not’s to get off their a_s and try working or going back to school to change their situation instead of whining 

  • Anonymous

    How about you stop worrying about what other people have and mind your own business…I could care less how much you make…however regardless of how much you make you should pay no more or less of a percentage in taxes….flat tax across the board

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps if the poor stopped worrying about the so called “rich” and worried about themselves they would not be poor…

  • Anonymous

    Taxing the wealthy less than the middle class perpetuates the trend of
    all of the spoils go to the rich as well as removing the potential to
    lift ones self out of poverty.

    It is not my responsibility to lift someone out of poverty. Quit counting on others and get up do something about your situation…this nation has become a bunch of envious lazy bums

  • Anonymous

    Greed is good…greed built this powerful nation..greed with moral compass is a great thing

  • Anonymous

    Why should millionaires pay more of a percentage..you liberals like to scream about fairness how is that fair

  • Anonymous

    no it is the unions and the people on 2 years of unemployment that are screwing us not companies
     

  • Anonymous

    This defines class warfare.  Would you like the ss payment to the wealthy be in the millions when they retire?  That would be the only fair way.  I collect dividends and I don’t compare that to my retirement, it doesn’t make sense.
    Thank the lord for rich ceo’s and corporations, they keep the world going around.

  • Anonymous

    The bank has the reserves, They all do. They banks are sitting on a pile of cash. This guy is no risk. He wanted to rent the place then retire there in 6-8 years. Not a good enough reason.  800 FICO score. You need to be careful true. But dang. Use some judgement. This guy makes $75-$80k plus his wife works.

  • Anonymous

    I understand but they are pretty good these days at keeping them low in a bid to charge up business. Not working though.

  • Anonymous

    Those countries also have very high suicide rates. — Welcome to socialism !!

  • Anonymous

    SO, JUST ONE MORE QUESTION: 

    If tax cuts to the wealthy create jobs, and economic growth, where is all that growth and the all those jobs, that should be a result of the The Bush Tax Cuts  for the Wealthy ?

     Doing the same thing over and over expecting different result, is what is nuts.

  • Anonymous

    such comments are made by FOOLS.

  • Anonymous

    depends caus you have to count africa and asia and alot of them do not have health benifits even at a low level

  • Anonymous

    but then only some places in europe and in eastern europe they won’t treat it africa or sol most of asian central and south america as well

  • Anonymous

    well if you use something to make money and it has to trade hands twice for you to get back your investment thats twice

  • Anonymous

    um thats because im making more then that already currently and not taking goverment anything for help sooo yeah

  • Anonymous

    look it up USMM 1st assistant engineer offshore on oil rigs key note offshore is a big multiplier

  • Anonymous

    My point is when i finished middle school i was at the bottom 10% of my class and in the lowest class ratings then by highschool i was at around the mid range. college i took a school that had a track record of graduates earning 80000 + right out of the gate there was NO fun at this school you had to put up with alot of bs and when you get out the bs doesn’t slow down until you get to atleast a 2nd’s  (you start with a 3rd’s)  

  • Anonymous

    in short it doesn’t take a genius to do what i did just determination and you can be color blind so i’ll give them a credit there

  • Anonymous

    i don’t work in the stock market im a multifield engineer

  • Anonymous

    yeah im gonna need some clarification to answer that one I bought a house last year but didn’t need much of a loan and the percentage wouldn’t have mattered for me but i can see how it would matter for some of my lower income friends

  • Anonymous

    you need atleast 20% not to need gov help

  • Anonymous

    then he can wait till he gets 20% and get it my bank said i need that because of my age and sort of mock me off then i came in with 60% down off asking and it was apraise 40000 higher then asking  they couldn’t refuse.

  • Anonymous

    That was my point, in asking , in the first place , Rexican.

    But in my experiences, large parts of Central America, at least,  has health care systems that work at a level much like it really does for uninsured Americans.

  • Anonymous

    Actually I dont think I will have much trouble keeping up, but dont give up a lot of people go back to school and finish their education just most of them went beyond the 3rd grade before they quit  you have a nice day now

  • Anonymous

    “Thank the lord for rich ceo’s and corporations, they keep the world going around.” 

    A much more accurate statement would be:  ”….they keep the jobs outsourced.”

  • Anonymous

    Hey,  I’m the 812,00,000 th richest person in the world.

  • Anonymous

    “I agree that rich is a comparative term” 
    Here are the metrics. http://www.globalrichlist.com/

  • Anonymous

    This is an artfully written and well reasoned opinion piece. However, the piece also uses selective information and changes definitions throughout the argument (switching from millionaire by “assets” to millionaire by “income” to millionaire by “adjusted gross income”). Instead, the surveys used by financial institutions to sell services to “wealthy individuals” use a consistent interpretation of “millionaire” as “$1,000,000 or gross income per anum and reach a different set of conclusions. The following is taken from the Consumer Financial Decisions (CFD) database of SRI International. The tax rate data is taken from the same IRS source referenced by the author, and distinguishes between “gross income” versus “adjusted gross income”.

    1. Millionaires are rich- True- Millionaires as defined by financial institutions are individuals with $1 million or more in annual income which generally associates with $5 million or more of net assets. Financial institutions do not use the measure of $1 million in the bank, because they net that amount against outstanding debt before deriving a final “wealth number”. A million in annual income is 20 times the average household of four income necessary to live comfortably. That is “rich”.

    2. Millionaires think they are rich-True- The CFD surveys when matched against the surveys of Values and Lifestyles (VALS) confirm that indeed, individuals of $1 million or more annual income do see themselves as rich.

    3. Millionaires pay proportionaly less income tax than poorer people- Mixed- The “math” for income tax is based on adjusted gross income. The same IRS data shows that the proportion of individuals who report $1,000,000 of “gross income” pay closer to 12% when all credits and tax exemptions are applied. The “net tax rate” against gross income does indeed reflect the double taxation of both profit at the corporate level and personal level.

    4. Millionaires share the same political belief- False- I’d like to see the author’s reference for this myth.

    5. Obama’s “millionaire’s” tax won’t seriously limit investment- True- The 2001 Congressional study referenced addresses one of five major macro-economic issues regarding investment incentive. Concurrent studies show that the majority of job formation does not come from “rich individuals investing”, but from upper end middle income individuals investing to start small businesses. Rich individuals asset distribution is either to low risk investments (e.g. government bonds) or high end risk return funds that require the standard venture capital return of 36% over three years.

  • Anonymous

    I wish I could you two more that just one “like” . 

    I’ve  been  imagining saying to people that the American capitalistic system, is non-functional, because it has not only been subverted by corporate socialism, but most people are in denial of the reality of that. 

    I’m still only thinking of  how to bring it up, because it’ll raise so much irrational hatred and negativity. 

    The simple fact is that that 200 odd million people cannot support the military industrial complex and … well, real traditional American values, work as well any other term,  and mixes it up just enough to stick a pin in some of irrationality. 

    I wonder if that just got anyone’s attention ? 

    But what this story and these comments show me is that those most likely to defend the current system, where sure a million dollars is not what used be, because the disparity in our society, don’t understand wealth at all.  

    The point that drives that home is all the people thinking a an investor with “real money” still  a individual with cool million in liquid assets, counts as that, too,  is really going to get the same ROR that the banks advertises to them, says that.  

    The working class is not valued nor is it created equal, any more. 
    Less and equal every day, in fact.
    Maine is to the real power in the US as Greece is to EU. 

    And elsewhere in the news… but mostly  from the comments on them, the people who think that get a say, that because they wish it were so, people thinking that they get a voice in what a capitalist can and will do with 100,o00 acres of her own land, is crazy.

    That’s  real wealth, and just like the mill owners didn’t give a damn about our River, she does not care about your old tired under maintained, so second world economy, mills.  
    That’s just the capitalism, that you support , at work. 

    She’s the capitalist land owner, holding private title to entire townships, so calling the shots, and that it just as it always has been in the North Woods. 
    That is the traditional American capitalist system and progress, at work.  
    Deny that.  

    But I can’t understand how those same people, can turning around and be “pro-business” blind followers of that wannabe LePage.

     And then as the cherry on top, of course they’ll support NASA,
    a totally socialist system. Funding whatever it takes to keep Americans in space, but the not engineering schools that got them there. 

    It just shocks me that they maintain their entrenched denial of the reality that the system does not work any more, never worked for them, anyway, in fact, or they would know better than to think it’s working.

    Their naivety in thinking they are supporting their own, or children’s interests by support the really wealthy AND power elites broken economic system is unbelievable. Don’t they see that that their children do have even as good, as fair, as  a shot as they got?  Or that living within our means, is really about energy, and not allowing having the international big energy capitalists to use up,  squeezing every last inflated dime out of the US,  before using the Nation’s “oil reserves” to invest in everyone’s, the Nation’s future ?

  • Anonymous

    Do you realize the top 1% richest people in the country control 38% of the total wealth in the USA.  Many of these people play the stock market and make a lot of their money this way.  Their rate on money made this way is 15% where as a person making $70. has a tax bracket of 25% is that fair?

  • Anonymous

    one problem there and in mexico where im at i by my medication the other day in veracruz and it was 52 pesos which is like 4 dollars. Back at the walmart in brewer im paying 35 dollars a month. But it is obvious why no doctor Rx needed and the pharmarcy are making less then 4.50 an hour i don’t think people would go to school for 6 years extra to make that in the states

  • Anonymous

    Not in most the world sorry

  • Anonymous

    and you explain that senario to some one that makes 300 a year where the averagelife expentancy is 38. They are not worried about cancer like at all they got enough other problems

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