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Tempers flare as private prison considered in Milo

Posted June 09, 2011, at 9:31 p.m.
Last modified June 10, 2011, at 9:52 a.m.

MILO, Maine — Tempers flared Thursday at a forum on bringing a private prison to Maine, underlining the difficult choice this small Maine town faces if talk of bringing a for-profit prison here continues.

Approximately 60 Milo-area residents turned out for the forum, which was organized by the Maine Prisoner Advocacy Coalition, which made no attempt to conceal the fact that it is fiercely against the notion of privately run prisons in Maine. The coalition also opposes shipping inmates from Maine to other states, which is a key provision in a bill that was presented to the Legislature earlier this year. LD 1095, An Act to Facilitate the Construction and Operation of Private Prisons by Authorizing the Transport of Prisoners Out of State, has been held over until the second half of the current legislative session, thereby delaying the debate until at least January.

Jim Bergin, a member of the coalition, said during the forum that it was not the group’s intention to tell Milo residents what to do, but rather to give them the information they needed to make the right decision.

“The citizens of this town really need to go through some due process,” said Bergin. “Bringing a prison into town has a range of ramifications you need to consider.”

Shenna Bellows, executive director of the Maine Civil Liberties Union, said her organization’s primary objection was the provision in the proposed bill that would send Maine prisoners to private prisons in other states. She said she also objects to profits made by putting people behind bars.

“When you start taking in people for profit, there’s no incentive to help people with their problems,” said Bellows.

The meeting consisted of presentations from a panel that included a retired Maine prison guard, a former prisoner and representatives from the Maine Civil Liberties Union and the NAACP, but most of the talking was done by Frank Smith of the Private Corrections Institute. Smith, who has spent years rallying against private prisons across the United States, presented a brutal case against private prisons, particularly those run by the Corrections Corporation of America, the group that is considering a 154-acre facility in Milo’s industrial park.

Smith shared stories of mistreated prisoners, underpaid prison staff, private prisons that were built and now stand empty and escaped convicts’ violent cross-country killing sprees.

“It is an extraordinarily corrupt industry,” said Smith. “We really have commodified prisoners but we don’t use their labor we use their very bodies. The prisons get paid per person. You’re condemning yourself to terminal economic disaster.”

When one member of the audience interrupted Smith to ask if the panel had anything good to say about private prisons, Smith said he didn’t.

“Bring someone in from Corrections Corporation of America and they’ll tell you anything you want to hear,” he said. “You’re condemning yourselves to terminal economic disaster [if a private prison comes to Milo].”

If there were any representatives from private prisons or CCA at the forum, they did not identify themselves.

Smith’s comments appeared to upset some members of the audience, particularly when he railed against people who will work at private prisons for little better than minimum wage.

“These places look like prisons just like fast-food workers look like prison guards,” said Smith, which prompted six people in the audience to leave. Asked why by the Bangor Daily News outside the meeting hall, one man said “I’ve heard enough” and another said “This is not what I signed up for. People who work at McDonald’s are good people, too.” Neither man would identify himself.

Inside the meeting, Ron Vick of Milo, who used to live in Colorado, corroborated Smith’s comments.

“You’re not blowing any smoke at all,” he said of Smith. “When a private prison came in it destroyed the community. The welfare rolls went up and it put a burden on the school system. Everything you said about what’s going on in Colorado is 150 percent true.”

The meeting grew testy when Milo Town Manager Jeff Gahagan spoke up in response to comments made by some panelists. Gahagan said Thursday’s forum was the third he’s attended.

“Tonight was more doom and gloom than any of the other forums you’ve had,” he said. “The folks in Milo are very smart people. They don’t need you to come in here and tell them how to live their lives.”

Donna Carpenter of Milo said the town needs whatever jobs are available, regardless of what they pay.

“Look at this community,” she said. “People will work for $10 an hour or less because they have to. There’s nothing else.”

Jim Grinnell, a Milo resident who said he’s still trying to decide whether a private prison is right for his town, said after the event that he was “disappointed” with Thursday’s forum.

“We need something,” he said. “I think a private prison is something we need to consider and look at.”

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Anonymous

As long as the bill to allow private prisons in Maine has a clause making them run the prison according to the Maine Jail Standards and serious fines for violations and open to inspections by the Maine Department of Corrections at any time to assure they are running their jail by the Maine Jail Standards I see no problem in a jail for profit.
Anonymous

Private prisons have a history of using various ways to extend an inmate’s incarceration, which adds to their profits.

IF private prisons have legitimate ways to reduce costs, why not simply apply those methods to our state-operated institutions?

If they don’t reduce costs, why have them?
Anonymous

Prisoners families from out of state will move to Maine to be closer to the inmate. With that their children will be enrolled in the schools and I guarantee welfare will be their first priority. Also other family members and friends are probably criminals also and will be coming to “crash” at the families homes. I have seen this happen and the neighborhoods become places for drug dealing and thefts, no one will feel safe in Milo anymore.
Anonymous

Private prisons,

Whats Next ?

A Republican sponsored bill to Privatise White Collar Crime,

Why would they do that ?

It would just put them out of buisness!
Anonymous

Why should Taxpayers be forced to give a profit to some Corporation when we can cut out the middle man?

These people are incarcerated by State’s Laws not Walcell LLC !

This is Cronyism, pure and simple!
Anonymous

Why should Taxpayers be forced to give a profit to some Corporation when we can cut out the middle man?

These people are incarcerated by State’s Laws not Walcell LLC !

This is Cronyism, pure and simple!
Anonymous

Cutting cost’s are just talking points, once the hook is set the costs go up.

After all it IS for profit!
Anonymous

Cutting cost’s are just talking points, once the hook is set the costs go up.

After all it IS for profit!
Anonymous

How come we got along without private prisons for 200+ years and now all of a sudden we need them? Jobs? Let’s deal with the real way to bring back jobs–bring back the tariffs removed by GATT and NAFTA that we always had and businesses won’t be undercut by slave labor goods from China and other third world countries. That’s the problem and the TREACHERY of both Democrats and Republicans. Private prisons? Sounds scary to me. You want to give anybody an incentive to put you in jail? BUY LOCAL and when you can’t encourage others to lend and establish new business. Tight knit communities are what’s needed–like we used to have. Make it happen America!
Anonymous

Your argument has merit on the surface but look below it and ask yourself, “What business hasn’t found ways to cut corners to increase their bottom line and at who’s expense do they do it – especially businesses that are subject to very little oversight?”
Anonymous

And welfare is not a top priority for people moving to Maine now? How many states exist that people moving to it qualify for welfare as soon as they cross the border now?

If you don’t like the idea of a private for profit prison oppose it for that reason. But the welfare argument just doesn’t work in this case.
Anonymous

And welfare is not a top priority for people moving to Maine now? How many states exist that people moving to it qualify for welfare as soon as they cross the border now?

If you don’t like the idea of a private for profit prison oppose it for that reason. But the welfare argument just doesn’t work in this case.
Anonymous

And welfare is not a top priority for people moving to Maine now? How many states exist that people moving to it qualify for welfare as soon as they cross the border now?

If you don’t like the idea of a private for profit prison oppose it for that reason. But the welfare argument just doesn’t work in this case.
Anonymous

private prisons are just another way for republican politicians to funnel your tax dollars into the pockets of their corporate pals. Look at who donated to the LePage campaign.
Anonymous

I was the presenter last night.

I have thousands of pages of oversight reports accumulated during the past 14 years regarding the operations of for-profit prisons. With the exception of two states, Oklahoma, and Arizona before the current Brewer administration took office, they are universally malfeasant. Prisoners sent out of state are “out of sight and out of mind.”

Arizona had four full-time monitors at its infamous, riot-ridden Kingman prison, run by Management and Training Corporation. They never noticed, it appears, that the guards couldn’t count, that the “medium security” facility only had a single fence, and that the alarm system hadn’t worked for years. I was asked by a Phoenix TV station what I thought the monitors were doing and I suggested they may have been playing bridge.

Often the monitors are corrupted by the industry or even drawn directly from its ranks. Their actual though unstated task is to protect the profiteers, the campaign contributors, the bribers and others who have neither the safety of the community or the interests of the taxpayers at heart.

If Maine passes the law which has probably been written by the industry (CCA writes such legislation using the cover of the American Legislative Exchange Council, as they did with SB 1070 in Arizona), financed by the industry (heavy campaign contributions from CCA and Koch Industries front groups to LePage and others), and solely for the benefit of the industry, Milo could find itself in the same position as the residents of Baldwin, Michigan. There CCA’s equivalent competitor, GEO Group, had a prison empty for six years, but constituting a significant barrier to better paying and safer industry locating there. After complaining that the Obama administration wasn’t locking up enough detainees to fill its spec-built prison, it finally accepted a small number of California gang-bangers whose confinement will be well beyond the capacity of the low-paid amateurs to maintain. Escape riots and escapes, and a deluge of local prosecutions for which Maine taxpayers will foot the bill for those West Coast imports.

A few years ago, a Texas state survey found the industry with which it was contracting had a 90% turnover rate and paid barely more than minimum wage. Some Milo residents are intent upon selling their heritage for a mess of pottage.

Many denominations have studied the issue of for-profit prisons and the commodification of human beings at great length, and have strenuously opposed the expansion of the for-profit prison industry. They include Catholic, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Methodist, Quaker (Friends), Mennonite, United Church of Christ, etc.

You can find these reports at our website, http://www.privateci.org
Anonymous

I am on the fence on this topic (private for-profit prisons) but there are functions which federal, state, county and local government do which have or could be “privatized”.

For instance:

The Maine State Police maintain a radio repair shop for the repair, etc…of their radios. What is the cost of this program (salary, benefits, training, equipment, etc…) and could it be done in the private sector (the answer is yes) and save tax dollars (until someone looks at it we don’t know the answer)?

Many towns contract with local companies for fire suppression services in the state currently.

Many towns contract out snow removal. Could money be saved by contracting out highway work year round?

I am not advocating that all services could or should be contracted out. Just that there are services which could be.
Anonymous

I see your point, but Milo is already full of drug dealers, thieves, child molesters and other various types of scum. I already dont feel safe here. I have my children on a curfew and limit where they can go and still I am worried everytime they leave the house.
http://twitter.com/TheHumbleFarmer Robert Karl Skoglund

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The humble Farmer
Anonymous

This is an awful idea. Anything run for profit needs customers and will have every incentive to keep inmates as long as possible.

Prisons and enforcing law are the responsibility of the state and all its citizens. The idea that it should be done by the private sector is a foolish notion. And, as others have noted, the private prison will be strongly motivated to bring in convicts from other states and that will bring a lot of negative things with it.

No to private prisons.
Anonymous

Private prisons are WRONG, you don’t profit of the misfortunes of others no matter the reason that they’re there, Instead why doesn’t the State use the inmates from state prisons to do some highway cleanup, or hole patching in roads….really anything that would teach them to work and at the same time bettering the community by working off their debt to society, the tax payers are already paying the state to hold criminals get your tax money out of it…don’t allow a private prison where you allow some jerkoff to get wealthy siphoning tax money while only worrying about his/her bottom line and not the inmates!
Anonymous

If you have had radio repairs done recently or installations then you would have your answer .. But that is not to say that all aspects should be explored and cost effectiveness
checked out.. there are millions to be saved .. We have to save dollars on dollars, not a nickel on a dollar.
However I can see room for graft and corruption in private for profit prison .. Just goes to say you have to have a good way to overlook the program same as anything else!
Anonymous

This is NOT the way to bring jobs into any town. I realize that people are desperate for work but a “for profit” prison is the worst possible solution. People of Milo, if given a chance to vote on this… you must vote no. People who don’t belong in prison will end up there for a very long time… every person is a cash cow to the private industry that runs these “businesses”. With profits made by putting people in prison they will need to keep a steady flow of people in prison. This means a lot more innocent people will end up in prison for a very long time and the records won’t be open to the public. These “businesses” won’t be sharing the profits with the people of Milo either. Private prisons are all about corruption at it’s worst. Don’t let them do this to your town!!!!! You will truly regret this…
Anonymous

Amen!!
Anonymous

Amen!!
Anonymous

Amen!!
Anonymous

Amen!!
Anonymous

Corrections Corporation of America, based in Tennessee, gave a lot of money to Paul LePage. Apart from wishing to demonstrate their great admiration for this upholder of all-American free market corporate values, surely you’re not suggesting they wanted anything in return, are you?
Harry H Snyder III

When it is necessary to incarcerate a US citizen, that job should be done by the same government which passes sentence.

I am usually in favor of governmental outsourcing, BUT in this case it is different.
T MAZZ

without profit no jail would exist… bottom line, criminals create jobs for good people (haha)… now if we can only stop hiring county sheriffs/guards that need and get gastric bypass surgery courtesy of the Maine taxpayer we’ll be making some progress.
Anonymous

“….terminal economic disaster.”

Setting us up…. have you spent any time in Milo? Aside from JSI, it’s pretty much already an economic disaster.
Anonymous

Actually I have had repairs, installs and purchases all within the past year and I have had zero issues with any of the services performed.

Everything should be looked at as when you save a “nickle” here and a “quarter there”soon enough you have saved dollars which is the goal anyway.
Anonymous

The first thing they do for profit is to put employee’s in servitude by cutting wages.
Centaurmyst

I think the issues you are raising are important ones that need to be considered. However, much of the problems you are citing are due to negligence on the part of the government for not properly monitoring these facilities. The information you have gathered could be used to devise standards and rules put forward by the town that could ensure the same problems don’t come to Maine. I actually think Maine could be a very successful host of a private prison. Everyone knows everyone else’s business here, so the kind of problems you mention would not be missed and allowed to go on undiscovered. Maine does NEED the jobs, badly. Rather than just shoot the idea down I think Milo would be better served by looking to find a way to make it work, avoid the problems in other areas and come up with a good plan that will provide jobs AND maintain safety and justice. Rather than complain about problems why not look for solutions?
Anonymous

I do not know much about the problems of private vs public prisons. Some of the issues mentioned in the article seem to be endemic in prisons in general. What I do know is that the GOP in Maine had better be doing there research on this. If it gets done and fails, it may be a factor in voters minds for decades to come.
Anonymous

I do not know much about the problems of private vs public prisons. Some of the issues mentioned in the article seem to be endemic in prisons in general. What I do know is that the GOP in Maine had better be doing there research on this. If it gets done and fails, it may be a factor in voters minds for decades to come.
Anonymous

I do not know much about the problems of private vs public prisons. Some of the issues mentioned in the article seem to be endemic in prisons in general. What I do know is that the GOP in Maine had better be doing there research on this. If it gets done and fails, it may be a factor in voters minds for decades to come.
Anonymous

Money is simply a medium of exchange. Money is not production. Labor is production.

Incarceration can be production, unless one is troubled by slavery.
Anonymous

Maybe we can just put a “for profit” fence around Milo.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1165255103 Ron Huber

Where were the flaring tempers? Didn’t appear to make the editorial cut. Or was that just lazy headline writing?
Anonymous

So, to hire this company, and then hire a bunch of people to oversee it, how does this equate to cost savings? Thats one of the biggest problems with privatization of anything… by the time you purchase the service and then have to provide manpower to monitor it, often times there is little to no savings.
Anonymous

So, to hire this company, and then hire a bunch of people to oversee it, how does this equate to cost savings? Thats one of the biggest problems with privatization of anything… by the time you purchase the service and then have to provide manpower to monitor it, often times there is little to no savings.
Anonymous

So, to hire this company, and then hire a bunch of people to oversee it, how does this equate to cost savings? Thats one of the biggest problems with privatization of anything… by the time you purchase the service and then have to provide manpower to monitor it, often times there is little to no savings.
Anonymous

So, to hire this company, and then hire a bunch of people to oversee it, how does this equate to cost savings? Thats one of the biggest problems with privatization of anything… by the time you purchase the service and then have to provide manpower to monitor it, often times there is little to no savings.
Anonymous

maybe you should move? There are better opportunities elsewhere — this private prison will not save Milo.
Anonymous

maybe you should move? There are better opportunities elsewhere — this private prison will not save Milo.
Hussar

of criminal of justice” I really don’t have a problem with private incarceration; especially if it will save the state a few bucks.

Yes prisons are a tough place and private ones may not be as comfortable as our ‘gold plated” government prisons. However, opponents are missing a key point in the whole argument: “we are talking about prisoners here who have been convicted of felonies.” Anyone who violates the law, and is duly convicted by a jury of his or her peers is not entitled to a state paid vacation at a Holiday Inn. As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Besides, Maine has a strong history of housing prisoners. Look at all the Nazis POWs housed in the “County” during WWII. I submit, that all prisoners need are a barbed wire compound, a single walled hut, and some warm blankets, and the proverbial ”three hots and a cot”. Anything more is a luxury that we few taxpayers (the 43% that actually pay income tax and foot the bill for government in Maine for the rest of you) can ill afford.

Remember, if you can’t do the time…then don’t do the crime!
Hussar

of criminal of justice” I really don’t have a problem with private incarceration; especially if it will save the state a few bucks.

Yes prisons are a tough place and private ones may not be as comfortable as our ‘gold plated” government prisons. However, opponents are missing a key point in the whole argument: “we are talking about prisoners here who have been convicted of felonies.” Anyone who violates the law, and is duly convicted by a jury of his or her peers is not entitled to a state paid vacation at a Holiday Inn. As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Besides, Maine has a strong history of housing prisoners. Look at all the Nazis POWs housed in the “County” during WWII. I submit, that all prisoners need are a barbed wire compound, a single walled hut, and some warm blankets, and the proverbial ”three hots and a cot”. Anything more is a luxury that we few taxpayers (the 43% that actually pay income tax and foot the bill for government in Maine for the rest of you) can ill afford.

Remember, if you can’t do the time…then don’t do the crime!
Anonymous

What your saying is the state, town will have to manage the managers. Whats the sence in contracting if you can’t trust the contractor? DUH!!!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JSK6I6HAO3RHPJDP42IXRDM5JA James

The panel lacked credibility. Who cares about the opinion of the panel member who is a convicted domestic terrorist who spent many years in prision.
Hussar

As a proponent of the “first offender is a member of the firing squad that shoots second offenders school of criminal of justice” I really don’t have a problem with private incarceration; especially if it will save the state a few bucks.

Yes prisons are a tough place and private ones may not be as comfortable as our ‘gold plated” government prisons. However, opponents are missing a key point in the whole argument: “we are talking about prisoners here who have been convicted of felonies.” Anyone who violates the law, and is duly convicted by a jury of his or her peers is not entitled to a state paid vacation at a Holiday Inn. As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Besides, Maine has a strong history of housing prisoners. Look at all the Nazis POWs housed in the “County” during WWII. I submit, that all prisoners need are a barbed wire compound, a single walled hut, and some warm blankets, and the proverbial “three hots and a cot”. Anything more is a luxury that we few taxpayers (the 43% that actually pay income tax and foot the bill for government in Maine for the rest of you) can ill afford.

Remember, if you can’t do the time…then don’t do the crime!
Anonymous

Sounds to me that this all fits well with Lepage and his coharts. He’s in it for something besides whats best for the state. Suppose it was for a contribution?
Anonymous

If they don’t reduce costs, why have them?
To line the pockets of business men. Taxes paid out for higher cost of prisons but money for our governor’s friends.
Anonymous

We need a law to recall our governor more than private prisons in Maine. LePage has no heart for Maine, just business men.
Anonymous

America will always have a slave class. WE have the highest number of prisoners of ANY country in the world.
Anonymous

America will always have a slave class. WE have the highest number of prisoners of ANY country in the world.
Anonymous

I second that. Well said.
Anonymous

With private prisons there will be roadblocks all over the state looking for customers for our governor’s friends. Recall now!
Anonymous

Of course the M.P.A.C. is against the idea of private prisons!! They represent the union member guards at state prisons and they know full-well that private prisons are far more efficient and cost less, which over time would lead to private prisons supplanting public prisons. It is already happening across the country on a small scale, and prisons, like most things, will privatize as public union-controlled things price themselves out of existence.
Anonymous

Of course the M.P.A.C. is against the idea of private prisons!! They represent the union member guards at state prisons and they know full-well that private prisons are far more efficient and cost less, which over time would lead to private prisons supplanting public prisons. It is already happening across the country on a small scale, and prisons, like most things, will privatize as public union-controlled things price themselves out of existence.
Anonymous

Of course the M.P.A.C. is against the idea of private prisons!! They represent the union member guards at state prisons and they know full-well that private prisons are far more efficient and cost less, which over time would lead to private prisons supplanting public prisons. It is already happening across the country on a small scale, and prisons, like most things, will privatize as public union-controlled things price themselves out of existence.
Anonymous

Of course the M.P.A.C. is against the idea of private prisons!! They represent the union member guards at state prisons and they know full-well that private prisons are far more efficient and cost less, which over time would lead to private prisons supplanting public prisons. It is already happening across the country on a small scale, and prisons, like most things, will privatize as public union-controlled things price themselves out of existence.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

And how about the two judges who were bribed in Penn. by the juvenile detention home private owners to throw kids in who had done nothing but be kids. Our country is corrupt to the core. Don’t allow it to happen here. Recall LePage now. He is not working for Mainers.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

If the govt. has to monitor for negligence of private prisons, they aren’t working.
Anonymous

Anyone who would trade profit over a human life does not belong in govt.
Anonymous

What we need is an enlightened public as to the reality of the Republican Agenda. People are hoodwinked with last minute slogans and deceptive simplistic icons like whealthy job creators and the (Negative) SOCIALISTS and Big Government. Ect, Ect Ect,

These politicians are milking the public and fogging thier brains with garbage!

Recall the Governor and their will be another Phony Baloney to take his place.
Anonymous

You guys complaining about for-profit prisons understand that there would be contracts and cost agreements right?… And that private businesses engage in free & open competition which is the whole point of a capitalist economy, right??? If that prison engages in price gouging and other methods of taking advantage of the town / county, then they will price themselves out of future expansion and existence because everyone will find out and avoid them. Private businesses, unlike the government have to hold themselves accountable or face the correcting invisible hand of the market. Meanwhile, the state can offer underwater basket-weaving classes to their inmates to “reform” them and give sweetheart retirement deals to their guards – all on the taxpayer dole, and nothing will correct that because voters and citizens are lazy, and liberals and welfare-takers are in on the scam.
Harry H Snyder III

Actually, “The luxuries” afforded prisoners are purchased by those prisoners at the company store for a good-sized markup. Despite the rhetoric, prisoners do not get “State-paid luxuries” even phone calls from prison are marked up with the State getting a very healthy return. Once prisoners made all the State road signs, and license plates. Now we farm those jobs out to southern States like Alabama, and Louisiana. We do need to bring these jobs back home, and make prisoners work.

The newer cleaner jails (where smoking is not allowed) are better for the taxpayer as the highest costs per prisoner are medical expenses.
Harry H Snyder III

Actually, “The luxuries” afforded prisoners are purchased by those prisoners at the company store for a good-sized markup. Despite the rhetoric, prisoners do not get “State-paid luxuries” even phone calls from prison are marked up with the State getting a very healthy return. Once prisoners made all the State road signs, and license plates. Now we farm those jobs out to southern States like Alabama, and Louisiana. We do need to bring these jobs back home, and make prisoners work.

The newer cleaner jails (where smoking is not allowed) are better for the taxpayer as the highest costs per prisoner are medical expenses.
Anonymous

it gets done and fails, it may be a factor in voters minds for decades to come.
Why should the lives of Mainers and their families be ruined to prove a point? We already know that the republicans put business ahead of people. By the time the new insurance law hits middle and upper state Maine, the republican party will be done here.

We need a third party because the democrats aren’t much different, just sneakier.
Anonymous

it gets done and fails, it may be a factor in voters minds for decades to come.
Why should the lives of Mainers and their families be ruined to prove a point? We already know that the republicans put business ahead of people. By the time the new insurance law hits middle and upper state Maine, the republican party will be done here.

We need a third party because the democrats aren’t much different, just sneakier.
Anonymous

Anything more is a luxury that we few taxpayers (the 43% that actually pay income tax and foot the bill for government in Maine for the rest of you) can ill afford.
You might have a point if we had a justice system left. But we don’t . When people are thrown in jail for smoking a joint…while bankers and the US war machine have stolen trillions and not had a charge brought against them….

Luxury prisons are a moot point.
Anonymous

BDN gives us a place to voice our concerns. I appreciate that . But they do a lot of transcribing for the govt. and business.
Anonymous

Hilarious.
Anonymous

You don’t need a law to recall the governor. Ask Centaurmyst about how the signatures on that online petition are going to be certified. Or how the Maine Supreme Court is going to order a recall to get rid of LePage.
Anonymous

Hope you are right. I have signed the petition. Hope the Maine Supreme Court can be trusted . They came down on the side of corporations in the lawsuit over the Rollins wind farm . Pretty blatant ignoring of the law to line the corporate pockets.
Anonymous

I think the hike in insurance rates and health care moving to southern Maine will be the wake up call. Some people need object lessons.
thejude46

The 4 resturants in town seem to be doing alright!!!!!!
thejude46

The 4 resturants in town seem to be doing alright!!!!!!
thejude46

The 4 resturants in town seem to be doing alright!!!!!!
Anonymous

Good grief! Agent P offers us the panoply of “logical” b.s. used by the prison-for-profit industry to make money by screwing both sides — prisoners and the public.
Anonymous

Good grief! Agent P offers us the panoply of “logical” b.s. used by the prison-for-profit industry to make money by screwing both sides — prisoners and the public.
Anonymous

How much money? Could you post a source?
Anonymous

You hit on what I think is the most important point surrounding politics today: Our country is in the mess it is in partially because so many voters have blind faith in one party. It happens on both sides. Neither side is totally wrong and more importantly neither side is always right.
Anonymous

I quess that you have never worked for a corporation that recieved public payment for services rendered. I wish that I could say what I have seen but it would be at great risk to myself.

Who holds these Corporations accountable to the public when they own the administration that Makes and Distorts the evaluations?

There IS no Competition when the Invisible Hand is in the Politicians Pocket!
Anonymous

I quess that you have never worked for a corporation that recieved public payment for services rendered. I wish that I could say what I have seen but it would be at great risk to myself.

Who holds these Corporations accountable to the public when they own the administration that Makes and Distorts the evaluations?

There IS no Competition when the Invisible Hand is in the Politicians Pocket!
Anonymous

Could you give some examples of how they can extend incarcerations? Certainly they have financial incentive to do so, but I’d be interested to see some sources on this.
Anonymous

Could you give some examples of how they can extend incarcerations? Certainly they have financial incentive to do so, but I’d be interested to see some sources on this.
Anonymous

How much does it cost to run the prison system in Maine? How much is a privately run prison supposed to save? What is the average wage of prison worker now? What will it be in a private prison?
Anonymous

How much does it cost to run the prison system in Maine? How much is a privately run prison supposed to save? What is the average wage of prison worker now? What will it be in a private prison?
Anonymous

Once you’ve outsourced your government, do you what you’ll be?
Anonymous

Once you’ve outsourced your government, do you what you’ll be?
T MAZZ

and true. you know the worst part? most of these people put all the weight back on… would anyone like to know names?
T MAZZ

When has the State of Maine EVER not been an economic disaster? no one even noticed the recession because theres never been any money here
Anonymous

I hope the jail comes to Milo, we need it. It will be a modern facility, it’s not like everyones going to be escaping and causing harm. It’s gonna be built somewhere, it might just as well be Milo.
Anonymous

I hope the jail comes to Milo, we need it. It will be a modern facility, it’s not like everyones going to be escaping and causing harm. It’s gonna be built somewhere, it might just as well be Milo.
PaulNotBunyan

They are a form of paid mercenaries. Why not hire corporations for our law enforcement and criminal prosecution needs while we are at it?

Correctional officers should only be government employees – sworn public servants. I would rather die working on a state-operated chain gang than be consigned to the “perpetual care” of a corrections corporation.
Anonymous

As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Its a submarine!

What did you think when you signed up?

It was going to be a Carnival Cruise?
Anonymous

As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Its a submarine!

What did you think when you signed up?

It was going to be a Carnival Cruise?
Anonymous

As a former US Submariner, I find it lamentable that prisoners today, live in better environments than your average sailor on a submarine does.

Its a submarine!

What did you think when you signed up?

It was going to be a Carnival Cruise?
T MAZZ

heres what happens with for profit jails boneheads.GOOGLE”Ciavarella gave kids to for-profit prison”
T MAZZ

heres what happens with for profit jails boneheads.GOOGLE”Ciavarella gave kids to for-profit prison”
Anonymous

We take other state’s trash………why not their human trash too????
Anonymous

That’s what they’ve all said with every prison ever built………
T MAZZ

Hey im starting a private police agency any town want to hire my men? oops sorry your all broke
T MAZZ

yea half of your town will be in it for dui and child molestation
T MAZZ

sorry i forgot this is maine… chesters dont go to jail
Anonymous

I am convinced that the New Age Republicans want to turn our world into a pay toilet.
Anonymous

I am convinced that the New Age Republicans want to turn our world into a pay toilet.
Anonymous

Basket weaving? I know a man who learned plumbing in prison. He does quite well now financially.
Anonymous

Basket weaving? I know a man who learned plumbing in prison. He does quite well now financially.
Anonymous

Basket weaving? I know a man who learned plumbing in prison. He does quite well now financially.
Anonymous

In the Penn. case., kids were given extended sentences by workers with no advance degrees…for things like sloppy rooms.
Anonymous

In the Penn. case., kids were given extended sentences by workers with no advance degrees…for things like sloppy rooms.
Anonymous

In the Penn. case., kids were given extended sentences by workers with no advance degrees…for things like sloppy rooms.
Anonymous

How long did that private juvenile detention home go on? Did it stop because a wonderful teen ager committed suicide? You know the parents knew what was going on. Proves how much justice there is now a days. As much as you can afford.
Anonymous

How long did that private juvenile detention home go on? Did it stop because a wonderful teen ager committed suicide? You know the parents knew what was going on. Proves how much justice there is now a days. As much as you can afford.
Anonymous

Sad. Obesity is harmful to our health.
Anonymous

Sad. Obesity is harmful to our health.
Anonymous

Sad. Obesity is harmful to our health.
Anonymous

Sad. Obesity is harmful to our health.
Anonymous

Sad. Obesity is harmful to our health.
Anonymous

Human trash because a person has been convicted by the US Justice Dept. ‘s own brand. Smoking a joint or stealing a tube of toothpaste from wal mart will get you jail time. Stealing trillions via banking and wars for oil= upstanding citizen.
Tax All Liberals

I think we should ship all prisoners to Madawaska and when they are released point them across the bridge.
Tax All Liberals

I think we should ship all prisoners to Madawaska and when they are released point them across the bridge.
Tax All Liberals

I think we should ship all prisoners to Madawaska and when they are released point them across the bridge.
Tax All Liberals

I think we should ship all prisoners to Madawaska and when they are released point them across the bridge.
Centaurmyst

Every business is monitored by the government in one fashion or another. Every restaurant needs to face health inspections, etc. Frequent inspections would prevent much of the problems people are concerned about.
Centaurmyst

Every business is monitored by the government in one fashion or another. Every restaurant needs to face health inspections, etc. Frequent inspections would prevent much of the problems people are concerned about.
Centaurmyst

Every business is monitored by the government in one fashion or another. Every restaurant needs to face health inspections, etc. Frequent inspections would prevent much of the problems people are concerned about.
Centaurmyst

Every business is monitored by the government in one fashion or another. Every restaurant needs to face health inspections, etc. Frequent inspections would prevent much of the problems people are concerned about.
Centaurmyst

Every business is monitored by the government in one fashion or another. Every restaurant needs to face health inspections, etc. Frequent inspections would prevent much of the problems people are concerned about.
Anonymous

Boy, have YOU been brainwashed.
Anonymous

Regarding “WE have the highest number of prisoners of ANY country in the world” I have two questions:

1) Your source material, and

2) Where does North Korea and China rank?
Anonymous

Did I say to outsource everything? No I did not. Why do you want to put words in my mouth?
Anonymous

Interesting that you would equate slavery to prison population. Slavery was involuntary servitude. Prisoners are folks that have violated societies laws. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Anonymous

Then I am sure you would agree that people that cheat on taxes (or don’t pay taxes at all) should be imprisoned rather than hold high government offices including those that oversee the Treasury and IRS?
Anonymous

It is common knowledge . Info not found on Fox News.
Anonymous

Certainly. Those who cheat on taxes…Tim Geithner and Clarence Thomas , Supreme Court Judge come to mind.
Anonymous

I guess I have to ask the question again…..

1) Your source material, and

2) Where doe North Korea and China rank?

It always so interesting when people make “assumptions” about peoples viewing habits when they have no clue about there lives.
Anonymous

“Why not hire corporations for our law enforcement and criminal prosecution needs while we are at it?”

We do…next time you are down at the Bangor Federal Building check out the officers…they are not Federal LEOs, they are private contracted officers with federal powers.
Anonymous

Sorry. Google is your friend. I don’t go find links for common knowledge. If you want to be ignorant it is your choice.
Anonymous

“People who don’t belong in prison will end up there for a very long time”?

Tell me, how did they get there. Did they go to a travel agent and asked to be booked into a cell?
~~~~~
“This means a lot more innocent people will end up in prison for a very long time and the records won’t be open to the public.”

Really? If tax dollars are used to incarcerate a person the records are public.
~~~~~
“Private prisons are all about corruption at it’s worst.”

Would you care to provide any proof to back up this statement?
Anonymous

•Maybe you don’t know about the google? Did it for you.
•
•
•
•
•
•
During 2002, the United States prison and jail population exceeded 2 million for the first time in history.
1

In 2004, the nation’s prison population is counted at 1.47 million
2
and the total number of people incarcerated is
2.1 million.
3

The United States has the highest rate of incarceration at 726 prisoners per 100,000 people.
4

• The second highest are Russia, Belarus, and Bermuda, all with a rate of 532 prisoners per 100,000 people.
5
• The third is Palau, with 523 prisoners per 100,000 people.
6
Western European nations have much lower rates, with England and Wales at 142, Germany at 96, and France at
91 per 100,000 people.
7

Many non-Western European nations also have significantly lower rates, with Cuba at 190 prisoners per 100,000
people,
8
China with 118, and India with 29.
9
More than three fifths of the world’s nations have incarceration rates below 150 per 100,000 people.
10
The current rate of incarceration in the United States is higher than the Soviet Union’s
incarceration rate of 660 per 100,000 people.
11
Anonymous

Sorry, not my job to prove your point.

The reason you cannot answer the questions is very simple. You don’t have the answers.

First link was Wiki which does not list China or North Korea which leads one to belive they do not report prison population and if they did would likely dwarf those seen in the rest of the world.
Anonymous

“Recall now!”

Please tell us how that “recall petition” is going?

But since you just like to post and not provide links to back up your claims let me do it for you.

Portland Press Herald – April 9, 2011 – “As of 8 p.m. today, the petition had been signed by 10,086 individuals. The website, which can be accessed at SignOn.org – Maine Needs a Citizen Recall Process – says it needs 15,000 signatures.” http://www.pressherald.com/news/Online-recall-petition-drive-gaining-momentum.html

SignOn.org – June 10, 2011 (3:49 PM EST) – We need 20,000 signatures There are currently 18,490 signatures – Since June 1, 2011 – 14 new “signers”. http://signon.org/sign/maine-needs-a-citizen?source=s.fb.ty

Seems like people have lost interest in this. Even if they haven’t, it doesn’t qualify under the Maine Constitution as a “Petition”.

Keep banging that “recall drum” Mary….nobody is listening.
Anonymous

“Recall now!”

Please tell us how that “recall petition” is going?

But since you just like to post and not provide links to back up your claims let me do it for you.

Portland Press Herald – April 9, 2011 – “As of 8 p.m. today, the petition had been signed by 10,086 individuals. The website, which can be accessed at SignOn.org – Maine Needs a Citizen Recall Process – says it needs 15,000 signatures.” http://www.pressherald.com/news/Online-recall-petition-drive-gaining-momentum.html

SignOn.org – June 10, 2011 (3:49 PM EST) – We need 20,000 signatures There are currently 18,490 signatures – Since June 1, 2011 – 14 new “signers”. http://signon.org/sign/maine-needs-a-citizen?source=s.fb.ty

Seems like people have lost interest in this. Even if they haven’t, it doesn’t qualify under the Maine Constitution as a “Petition”.

Keep banging that “recall drum” Mary….nobody is listening.
Anonymous

For details on abuses by for-profit prisons, go to
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/419/

For more, Google “for profit prisons” and read the links
Anonymous

The claim that private business are more efficient misses the point of where they will be getting their “customers”.

Private prisons are highly motivated to have customers, that is convicts sent to their jails and to ensure that they stay there as long as possible. These companies will find ways for laws to be passed or abused to ensure a steady stream of clients. That is not free enterprise. They will be gaming the system and it will likely cost more over the long term.

A problem I did not see mentioned is what happens if the private prison wants to close-up shop? The State of Maine would find itself having to assume the cost to maintain the prison to transfer the inmates to other prisons. If a private company cannot make money they certainly have a right to stop doing business. They cannot be forced to stay in business so what is the exit plan?

The real problem is why are state jails full and what can be done to ease the burden. I read an article recently that put it very well. “We build prisons for people we are afraid of and then fill them with people we are mad at”. The point was that many prisoners are not convicted of violent crimes and we may do better keeping prisons for those who commit violent crimes. We can certainly find ways to penalize the non-violent ones without building more and more prisons.
Anonymous

MaryBelle — when did I say anything about basket weaving?
Anonymous

MaryBelle — when did I say anything about basket weaving?
Anonymous

MaryBelle — when did I say anything about basket weaving?
Anonymous

MaryBelle — when did I say anything about basket weaving?
Anonymous

According to Dirigo Blue (http://www.dirigoblue.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2488) “CCA donated $25,000 to the RGA Maine 2010 PAC, formed by the Republican Governors Association to help elect LePage.”

Here is a link to ALL of the RGA Maine 2010 PAC numbers – http://www.mainecampaignfinance.com/netCrystalReports/PACCombinedReport.aspx?EntityType=PAC&Params=85497;11-day+Pre-General;NNNNYNNNNNN;public/PACCombinedReport.aspx?EntityType=PAC&Params=85497;11-day+Pre-General;NNNNYNNNNNN;public

What I wonder is does PeterTaber and others worry equally about money raised by our Congressional Delegation… http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/index.php
Anonymous

When the prisoners come to town, so will many of their families. Milo will become a welfare haven as will the surrounding towns. Rents will rise as all the affordable housing will be scooped up by these low-income out of staters.

If you want to see what prisons do to a town, just invite some residents and officials over from Berlin, NH.
Anonymous

“Community leaders to view federal prison in NH”
The Associated Press
June 30, 2010

“The 1,100-inmate prison is expected to have a staff of 332, many of them corrections officers.”

“Tammi Sanderhoff, a U.S. Bureau of Prisons comptroller who oversees
financial management for prisons in the Northeast, told a group of
community leaders that 60 percent of the jobs would be filled locally;
the rest would be brought in from other prisons.” (NOTE: 60% of 332 is 199 LOCAL jobs)

“Mark Belanger, director of the New Hampshire Works job assistance office
in Berlin, said community leaders helping to recruit potential job
candidates are looking to set up job fairs across Coos County as the
time for job postings gets closer. He said it’s likely people may apply
from elsewhere in New Hampshire, too. “You’ll see an influx,” he said.”

“Residents in Berlin voted back in 2002 in favor of a proposal to bring a
federal prison to the city. Then-Mayor Robert Danderson first proposed
the prison after paper and pulp mills in Berlin and nearby Gorham closed
down, putting hundreds of people out of work.”

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9GLPRIO1.htm

If you have something different please post.
Anonymous

You’re right. The two took over three million in bribes to send thousands of kids to jail who should have at most been kept after school cleaning erasers. One girl went to jail for four months, I think, for doing a parody of her assistant principal on her MySpace page.

One of the judges took a plea bargain. The other’s conduct was so outrageous, even in that context, that the judge turned down the plea bargain with the prosecutors. The sleazy guy was convicted on multiple counts of corruption and tax evasion yet remained wholly uncontrite.

The judges had shut down a county juvenile facility in order to enrich their bribers.
Anonymous

You’re right. The two took over three million in bribes to send thousands of kids to jail who should have at most been kept after school cleaning erasers. One girl went to jail for four months, I think, for doing a parody of her assistant principal on her MySpace page.

One of the judges took a plea bargain. The other’s conduct was so outrageous, even in that context, that the judge turned down the plea bargain with the prosecutors. The sleazy guy was convicted on multiple counts of corruption and tax evasion yet remained wholly uncontrite.

The judges had shut down a county juvenile facility in order to enrich their bribers.
Numbrrrs

Your responses in this thread are unnecessarily condescending. Why indulge feeling superior when you could help educate? I mean this earnestly, I think you can do better:)

Feel welcome to critique me as well if I start to get short with people. I know it isn’t easy to engage with those you disagree with, but the more civility and humility the better. No one will change their minds if we are all only asserting things, without being willing to back them up.

I’ll post some links as well; the more people who realize how flawed our prison system, the better.
Anonymous

Your “source” is Defending Justice: An Activist Resource Kit?

From the Defending Justice Home Page –
“Defending Justice is an Activist Resource Kit
that helps progressive activists understand and resist the Right, the
State, and other forces that contribute to the growing system of courts,
surveillance, policing, and incarceration.”

Not one of the “Fact Sheets” (http://defendingjustice.org/factsheets/index.html) has been updated since May 2005. Seems that 6 year old “facts” may not be “facts” anymore and a great deal happens in six years.

And the parent group of “Defending Justice: An Activist Resource Kit”?

Political Research Associates which states

“Mission Statement: Political Research Associates is a
progressive think tank devoted to supporting movements that are
building a more just and inclusive democratic society. We expose
movements, institutions, and ideologies that undermine human rights.”

and

“Goal: Political Research Associates seeks to
advance progressive thinking and action by providing research-based
information, analysis, and referrals.”

http://www.publiceye.org/index.php

And you say FoxNews is unfair and unbalanced?
Numbrrrs

Here is a 2008 N.Y. Times article that gives some details. They have China as second in total prison population, but point out that the China numbers do not include 100′s of thousands of people in “administrative detention”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

Here is a more in depth link, and I think better, that gives sources for the data for each country: http://nicic.gov/Library/022140

The Bureau of Justice Statistics has tons of information on the U.S. prison population in general.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2200
Anonymous

Sorry. I googled for you. Just picked the one at the top of the list. Try it , you may be in for some surprises.
Numbrrrs

I’d be interested to see data or sources on your first question(s)? Do people move here for welfare? How many states?
Anonymous

Because people can’t google? My apologies for appearing condescending .
Anonymous

When something is common knowledge, it is useless to try and prove a point. Sorry if I appeared condescending .
Anonymous

When something is common knowledge, it is useless to try and prove a point. Sorry if I appeared condescending .
Numbrrrs

Thanks for the video link. I’ll watch it soon.
Anonymous

Nice try Mary…you had to dig for that site…it is not something that comes up in the top 10.
Anonymous

The U.S. has less than 5% of the world’s population, yet we have almost 25% of the world’s prisoners.

1% of adult Amercans are behind bars.

Source: NYT, 23 April 2008
Anonymous

Prisoners may also be fodder for our massive “corrections industry.”

As far as economic development is concerned, why not simply take in each other’s laundry instead of taking in each other’s prisoners?
Numbrrrs

Money buys influence. Most Democrats and Republicans have been significantly “influenced”, meaning they work for the average persons interest as an afterthought or to manipulate them. It’s like “good cop, bad cop” and you think your party is the good cop, so you are loyal to them, even though time after time they sell you out.
Numbrrrs

Money buys influence. Most Democrats and Republicans have been significantly “influenced”, meaning they work for the average persons interest as an afterthought or to manipulate them. It’s like “good cop, bad cop” and you think your party is the good cop, so you are loyal to them, even though time after time they sell you out.

I would love to see a third party, and a fourth party…and why not a fifth?!
Numbrrrs

How do you know that you googled the same terms she did? Even slight differences in terms turn up different results.
Numbrrrs

How do you know that you googled the same terms she did? Even slight differences in terms turn up different results.
Numbrrrs

How do you know that you googled the same terms she did? Even slight differences in terms turn up different results.
Numbrrrs

How do you know that you googled the same terms she did? Even slight differences in terms turn up different results.
Numbrrrs

How much newer do you expect the data to be? I know there’s in newer stuff than 2005, but general trends aren’t likely to change in a few years and it takes time to gather global data. In the time it took you to try and discredit Mary you could have found some decent data to share, no?
Anonymous

Here’s a different take from Berlin:

Others said they didn’t see how having a second prison would better
the city, worrying the project would attract rising crime and more
welfare recipients.

“That’s what the first one did,” said Keith Tupick. He predicted
“stealing, theft, spending on cops. I think it’s a waste of money.”

“It worked good for two years, and it’s done,” said Berkley
Churchill, who was sitting next to Tupick at a bar in Berlin. Churchill,
a bulldozer operator, was hired during the construction phase of the
project, and “that did stimulate the economy for a couple good years,”
he said. “Now we got a concrete jungle.”

http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2011/04/berlin_nh_pinni.html

http://berlinnh.net/2009/09/prison-based-economy-good-or-bad/
Anonymous

Here’s a different take from Berlin:

Others said they didn’t see how having a second prison would better
the city, worrying the project would attract rising crime and more
welfare recipients.

“That’s what the first one did,” said Keith Tupick. He predicted
“stealing, theft, spending on cops. I think it’s a waste of money.”

“It worked good for two years, and it’s done,” said Berkley
Churchill, who was sitting next to Tupick at a bar in Berlin. Churchill,
a bulldozer operator, was hired during the construction phase of the
project, and “that did stimulate the economy for a couple good years,”
he said. “Now we got a concrete jungle.”

http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2011/04/berlin_nh_pinni.html

http://berlinnh.net/2009/09/prison-based-economy-good-or-bad/
Anonymous

I agree with your position. I no longer vote party line and I will vote for those candidates that I feel offer the best solutions to our problems. Many people assume that I voted for LePage but I didn’t but that doesn’t mean that I support the mud slinging and “recall” petitions as they only distract from the real problems. The more we are distracted the longer the problems will remain and the greater the pain our fellow citizens will suffer with.
Anonymous

I agree with your position. I no longer vote party line and I will vote for those candidates that I feel offer the best solutions to our problems. Many people assume that I voted for LePage but I didn’t but that doesn’t mean that I support the mud slinging and “recall” petitions as they only distract from the real problems. The more we are distracted the longer the problems will remain and the greater the pain our fellow citizens will suffer with.
Anonymous

Numbrrrs I tried several different variations on the following “world prison population”.

That was why I asked for the source in the first response to MaryBelle and than asked again. She played the game of “you look it up”. It was fairly obvious that she was playing a game from the beginning (as many people do on these pages) and didn’t want to post her source.
Anonymous

Numbrrrs I tried several different variations on the following “world prison population”.

That was why I asked for the source in the first response to MaryBelle and than asked again. She played the game of “you look it up”. It was fairly obvious that she was playing a game from the beginning (as many people do on these pages) and didn’t want to post her source.
Anonymous

Thank you. I read both articles and they both presented a balanced review of the two prisons. With any project there will be proponents and detractors.
Anonymous

Thank you. I read both articles and they both presented a balanced review of the two prisons. With any project there will be proponents and detractors.
Anonymous

Thank you. I read both articles and they both presented a balanced review of the two prisons. With any project there will be proponents and detractors.
Anonymous

Thank you. I read both articles and they both presented a balanced review of the two prisons. With any project there will be proponents and detractors.
Anonymous

Thank you. I read both articles and they both presented a balanced review of the two prisons. With any project there will be proponents and detractors.
Anonymous

I was more interested in where the data came from and the objectivity of that data.
Anonymous

The point that I was making, it cost more to have a private company to do the work than having a man on the pay role with that many state police vehicles. With removing them and installing them in new vehicles and repairs etc… Not to mention the repaairs to repeaters and towers. Granted the work I had a private companty do was great. No issues there. Ever hear of the saying penny wise and dollar stupid just saying
Anonymous

The point that I was making, it cost more to have a private company to do the work than having a man on the pay role with that many state police vehicles. With removing them and installing them in new vehicles and repairs etc… Not to mention the repaairs to repeaters and towers. Granted the work I had a private companty do was great. No issues there. Ever hear of the saying penny wise and dollar stupid just saying
http://twitter.com/TheGuardianMH The Guardian

If – and I say IF – they bring in a private prison – put the stupid thing up in the trees up north, away from towns. It would still be close enough for employment. As far as it being for profit – companies have made money off of mental illness for years (even those that are non profit so called). The state prison is having serious problems – how many deaths now??
http://twitter.com/TheGuardianMH The Guardian

If – and I say IF – they bring in a private prison – put the stupid thing up in the trees up north, away from towns. It would still be close enough for employment. As far as it being for profit – companies have made money off of mental illness for years (even those that are non profit so called). The state prison is having serious problems – how many deaths now??
Anonymous

The information regarding people moving to Maine and qualifying for Welfare benefits has been fairly well documented by the BDN during the debate at the Legislature over limiting the length of time a person can receive Welfare benefits and the potential waiting period before benefits can begin.
Anonymous

And all I am saying is we should look at everything. No sacred cows or people. Everything up for a good long look.
http://twitter.com/TheGuardianMH The Guardian

Milo the Friendly Prison Town doesn’t sound too appealing.
Anonymous

I have lived near a private prison before, trust me when inmates get out they tend to stay in the town raising the crime level. Sure it creates jobs but it also cause problems. I moved to Milo because it is such a nice quaint friendly town and a private prison will only bring problems.
Anonymous

I highly doubt that there are all that many who last as Corrections Officers until retirement age. Nationally the average is around 5 years before burnout. If the job is so great, why are they always hireing and always shorthanded with mandated overtime to fill shifts.
Anonymous

I would think that the services that could be contracted out, are those that aren’t enough to keep state workers busy doing those services. For instance, if the radio repair shop that the state runs for the MSP is not busy enough to keep their employees occupied most days. Then maybe it would be more cost effective to farm out the repair work.
On the other hand prisons seem to have no shortage of work. In fact the only constant shortage seems to be people willing to work in that environment. How a private prison can manage to sufficiently staff their prison with lowere paid employees and still maintain a safe operation, seems to be a magic trick that I would like to see.
Anonymous

…third party, fourth and fifth.

Now ‘ya talkin’.

And it would be great to have fair elections too!
Anonymous

So if the source that Mary supplied to you didn’t meet your high standards or preconceptions. You seem to be hung up on discrediting her source without presenting a counter source that denies that the US has a lower incarceration rate than other countries.
Anonymous

If I’m not mistaken, isn’t the new head of the DOC an ex employee of Corrections Corporation of America, the private prison company that wants to build a prison in Milo?
Doesn’t that raise any flags?
Anonymous

Don’t be foolish… when a profit is to be made solely by collecting warm bodies to fill cells they’re going to NEED warm bodies in cells to make money. Or did you think they wanted empty jails and no income?
Anonymous

Maybe… but seriously I’m beginning to get the idea that LePage has some kind of angry grudge against Maine. He wants to deregulate environmental protections, invite chemical plants to do their thing without restrictions turning Maine into a free-for-all toxic wasteland, everyone to run around with concealed weapons anywhere they want to go, wants harmful plastics sold as baby bottles, reductions in the protective barriers around protected wetlands that house many species of animals, some endangered, limitations on registering to vote… now he wants for profit prisons in Milo. My guess is after he’s done doing all this to Maine… he’s going to head down to Florida where he will live the rest of his days out knowing he got back at whoever or whatever he is angry with Maine about. He’s made it clear that he doesn’t have any respect for citizens (he calls them idiots), no respect for NAACP and minorities, no respect for scientists, doctors and people of the arts, educational professionals… I mean seriously is there anyone in Maine he actually likes? Is there anything about Maine he actually likes or thinks should be preserved or protected? It certainly doesn’t seem like it. Mark my words… this man will move to Florida when his term is done.
Anonymous

Of course the welfare rolls go up, the prisoners have family that wants to visit them.
Anonymous

Of course the welfare rolls go up, the prisoners have family that wants to visit them.
Anonymous

Of course the welfare rolls go up, the prisoners have family that wants to visit them.
PaulNotBunyan

I’ve always been opposed to that type of thing. Government security needs should be handled by government employees. I’m self-employed and definitely pro-business. I just think that government agencies should be able to do things at the same cost any contractor offers. We need to stop being defeatist in that regard.
Anonymous

I have been through Milo,

This town is a poor choice for a prison,

How will anyone know if a prisoner escapes?
Anonymous

I have been through Milo,

This town is a poor choice for a prison,

How will anyone know if a prisoner escapes?
Numbrrrs

Agreed. It’s should be less about the bias of the source and more about whether or not its accurate. I was supporting jd’s request for a source, even though I’ve never heard/read anyone saying anything different about the U.S. prison population. I too thought it was common knowledge. Still, I posted some sources, and hope they will be fairly considered.

Of course, in the end, the reasons WHY we have a comparatively high incarceration rate are debated.
Numbrrrs

Fair enough. Good luck finding it:)
Numbrrrs

Fair enough. Good luck finding it:)
Numbrrrs

So much money, so much influence….
Thanks for the links, though the first didn’t work for me. Open Secrets is a great project. Have you seen Open Congress, another good one.
Numbrrrs

Agreed on fair elections. Maybe some alternate voting systems, so third parties aren’t labeled spoilers too.
People with clear conflicts of interest are making decisions that effect the entire nation, really the world. It’s scary. And to return to the topic at hand, a for profit prison, I think, presents conflicts of interest. The temptation is to cut corners as long as it makes you money. If something goes wrong, well, you just factor that into the long-term operating cost.
Anonymous

Your scenario would require collusion and bribery. How many and which judges in Maine do you think would collude with criminals and accept bribes?
Anonymous

What makes you think your tax dollars have anything to do with PRIVATE prisons.

************************************************
Where do you think their operating budget comes from?
Anonymous

What makes you think your tax dollars have anything to do with PRIVATE prisons.

************************************************
Where do you think their operating budget comes from?
Anonymous

Good points on the topic at hand!
Anonymous

Good points on the topic at hand!
Anonymous

Right on! There I agree 110 percent with you! It would amaze you at the money that could be saved if department heads would be honest. Or if there was an independant person who answers only to the governors office then things might be accomplished.. But Commissioners and leaders are doing as little as they can to cut and being protective of their empires! We will see what happens in the next 6 to 8 months. Time will tell.
Anonymous

Where have you seen it? Many,many years ago, I was a C.O. in New Jersey and your scenario didn’t exist there. Most of the family members were employed and couldn’t just pick upandmove, just to be close to their man (or woman). Besides, they only had contact visits on weekends anyway, so it’s not like they could be there seeing their guy every day.

The neighborhoods immediately surrounding the prisons in NJ are the safest around. When you’ve got at least 200+ Correction Officers on the streets 3 times a day at shift change, only the dumbest criminal would be out and about! Officers also work outside the prison walls and in towers with a bird’s eye view of not only the prison itself but much of the ‘hood. They observe and alert local police when necessary, and their uniformed presence on the street is a deterrent.
Anonymous

Juvenile detention in state institutions is for an indeterminite period of time. The only limit that is imposed is “a term not to exceed their 21st birthday.” State correctional facilities do not need to hire uniformed or civilian employees with “advanced degrees”.
Anonymous

In order to make money or be successful, the private prison must be able to do the same duties as a government prison for a lower cost. I am curious about how they operate at a lower cost. I would be interested to know what their average salaries and benefits are, whether they offer pension plans to their employees, what their food budget is and if inmates will be provided extensive gym equipment, televisions, newspapers, internet, computers, libraries, college courses, etc….or extensive medical and dental treatment, sex reassignment surgery, elective surgeries of all sorts….(please don’t tell me this doesn’t happen—I’ve seen it all in NJ)
T MAZZ

there will be federal and state incentives… (money)
Anonymous

Extending the length of detention due to things like not cleaning up a room when private detention homes are making money is not right. If it were your son or daughter you would be outraged. One teenager was put into detention because of a face book comment.

And I am sorry but one high school graduate’s opinion should not determine what is really jail time. No wonder the US has the highest prison population in the world with opinions like yours.
Anonymous

MONEY = CORRUPTION Of course you can choose to delude yourself into believing that this just couldn’t possibly be the case when a nice private prison moves into town… I’m not buying it. There has been some research done but unfortunately the research was considered a wee bit tainted because it was funded by CCA – you know that itty bitty little Corrections Corporation of America who just happen to have a new monopoly on the private prison system and are commonly called to the carpet for something called “corruption”. But then… you’ve probably got yourself a good pair of rosy glasses – you better put them on or the truth might blind you.
Anonymous

CCA does draw in large amounts of funds from state, federal and local government. You don’t mind paying their CEO a nice sweet paycheck… I mean they typically work with a skeleton crew and you know how it is – the poor CEO and upper management just HAVE TO pay themselves a nice hefty wage and there’s just not enough left for staff or any other other normal prison expenses… don’t you worry though, there’s plenty for the administration. Don’t be a fool… private prisons are not monitored like state prisons and they can get away with anything and they do. Research has shown that while corporations like CCA, the biggest private prison firm in the USA, will promise that it will cost less, it never does. Hey, maybe you should put those rosy glasses back on and enjoy the bliss!
Anonymous

Because you claimed to be on the fence about private prisons.
Anonymous

Check the source for yourself and you will find they have an agenda. And then to claim that it was easy to find. Yeah…..OK
Anonymous

CCA bought USCC after it was brought down when a sheriff was given bribes to keep its jails full. It gave Tom DeLay $100,000 for his “children’s charity.” The prime beneficiary of the charity was his own daughter who “earned” a seven-figure salary for “directing” the organization. It also spends millions annually to write laws (through the American Legislative Exchange Council) to put more people in prison, to lobby congress and state legislatures to prevent oversight of its tawdry operations, and to influence public police and contract issuance.

Cornell, bought last year by GEO Group, gave the mayor of Richmond, Virginia, $44,500 for a non-existent “public relations campaign.” The money was paid on the basis of a faxed invoice from the mayor’s handyman. Testimony in a federal corruption trial indicted they laundered campaign contributions in Alaska through a lobbyist. They gave Tom DeLay $10,000 in illegal corporate campaign contribuitons to gerrymander Texas.

CSC paid off many New York State and City legislators. It was subsequently bought by GEO Group.

GEO Group offered the Colorado Director of Prisons %1 of the building costs, about $1 million, if he was able to get a prison built for them in Ault. He spent months on vacation and “sick leave” on the public payroll haranguing the residents to accept the dangerous prison.

Bobby Ross Group was involved in the bribing of an Alabama corrections official.

LaSalle Corrections bribed the Sheriff of Bexar County, Texas, though the briber was killed in a small plane crash before being prosecuted.

Management and Training Corporation was involved in the Willacy County, Texas prison where county commissioners were convicted of giving and accepting bribes.

Those corporations held well over 95% of all the for-profit prisoners in the U.S.

Given the silly responses you’ve left in your many comments above, I expect that you’re not looking for facts, but instead are just looking for an argument. You pretend that well documented, widely sourced statistics, are somehow invalid, and that it’s only you who have a monopoly on the truth.

You further infer that an (any?) organization that promotes “…building a more just and inclusive democratic society, ” (and) expos(ing) movements, institutions, and ideologies that undermine human rights,” is somehow subersive or anti-American. What precisely do you have against democracy and human rights?
Anonymous

patom1…I asked her for her source which was only provided after repeated requests and when it was the source describes themselves this way – “Defending Justice is an Activist Resource Kit that helps progressive activists understand and resist the Right, the State, and other forces that contribute to the growing system of courts, surveillance, policing, and incarceration.”

Do you find this group to be free of bias and without an axe to grind?

The second question I asked she still hasn’t answered. And that question was where does North Korea and China fall in the list. Isn’t odd that people focus on the prison population of the U.S. when in both of these countries you can be imprisoned for speaking out against your government, practicing a western religion, owning a Bible, etc…

How about rather than concentrating on the NUMBER of people in prison one looks at the CONDITIONS the prisoners are held in? Anyone want to say that the prison conditions in the U.S. are the worse in the world? Anyone?
Anonymous

Want to try answering even one of the questions I asked?
~~~~~
“When a profit is to be made solely by collecting warm bodies to fill
cells they’re going to NEED warm bodies in cells in order to make money
for the “business”. Or did you think they planned on getting by with
half empty cells and little or no income?”

Are you suggesting that we will have an increase in the number of incarcerations because a prison is run by a private company? So when did a prison become the legislature (law makers), judge and jury?
~~~~~
Please tell me that you are not so gullible that you believe the country is corrupt to the point of trumping up charges, buying a judge and a jury just so a company can make a profit?
Anonymous

Want to try answering even one of the questions I asked?
~~~~~
“When a profit is to be made solely by collecting warm bodies to fill
cells they’re going to NEED warm bodies in cells in order to make money
for the “business”. Or did you think they planned on getting by with
half empty cells and little or no income?”

Are you suggesting that we will have an increase in the number of incarcerations because a prison is run by a private company? So when did a prison become the legislature (law makers), judge and jury?
~~~~~
Please tell me that you are not so gullible that you believe the country is corrupt to the point of trumping up charges, buying a judge and a jury just so a company can make a profit?
Anonymous

Want to try answering even one of the questions I asked?
~~~~~
“When a profit is to be made solely by collecting warm bodies to fill
cells they’re going to NEED warm bodies in cells in order to make money
for the “business”. Or did you think they planned on getting by with
half empty cells and little or no income?”

Are you suggesting that we will have an increase in the number of incarcerations because a prison is run by a private company? So when did a prison become the legislature (law makers), judge and jury?
~~~~~
Please tell me that you are not so gullible that you believe the country is corrupt to the point of trumping up charges, buying a judge and a jury just so a company can make a profit?
Anonymous

Thanks so much for your comments.

CCA has managed to craft the terms of this debate. Even though the town wants to give them, free of charge, 154 acres for development (about 130 more than they might need), there’s no percentage in building there. There’s not enough available workforce, but residents and boosters and legislators from Milo believe the hokum. CCA no more wants to build there than they want to construct a facility on the other side of the moon.

What they want to accomplish is to change Maine state law to help fill their many empty prisons around the U.S. by exporting Maine prisoners perhaps thousands of miles. They’re simply using Milo to do so. In the event there were an actual need for an additional prison in Maine, which there isn’t, they could build their dangerous facility in any one of the far more suitable places.

This is a common industry “bait and switch,” tactic.

The exportation of prisoners will inevitably result in an astronomical recidivism rate, which serves the industry equally well. More prisoners = more market, and for CCA, more market share.
Anonymous

“Given the silly responses you’ve left in your many comments above, I
expect that you’re not looking for facts, but instead are just looking
for an argument.”

Not at all. What I am looking for is a well researched, non-biased, no axe to grind source. Not groups that have “Activist” in the title of their group. That tells me that have a preconceived agenda and will find “facts” to support the pre-drawn conclusions.
~~~~~
“You pretend that well documented, widely sourced
statistics, are somehow invalid, and that it’s only you who have a
monopoly on the truth.”

Thanks for assigning more power to me that I could possibly have. Again, what I am looking for are facts from un-biased sources. Not from “activist” groups.
~~~~~
“You further infer that an (any?) organization that promotes “…building
a more just and inclusive democratic society, ” (and) expos(ing)
movements, institutions, and ideologies that undermine human rights,”
is somehow subersive or anti-American. What precisely do you have
against democracy and human rights?”

Political Research Associates is the parent organization of “Defending Justice: An Activist Resource Kit” which was the source for MaryBelle statistics. Political Research Associates Mission Statement quoted in whole and not in part says:

“Political Research Associates is a progressive think tank devoted to supporting movements that are building a more just and inclusive democratic society. We expose
movements, institutions, and ideologies that undermine human rights.”

If that were as far as it went it would be fine. But when you start drilling down through the various layers you find “Defending Justice: An Activist Resource Kit” (Note: Again this is where MaryBelle “found” her source material)

On “Defending Justice Home Page” we find “Defending Justice is an Activist Resource Kit
that helps progressive activists understand and resist the Right, the State, and other forces that contribute to the growing system of courts, surveillance, policing, and incarceration.”

Now when the last Congress extended the Patriot Act which continued many of the surveillance programs, etc…which “Defending Justice: An Activist Resource Kit” finds problematic why didn’t they add “and the Left” to their description?

It is not “subersive or anti-American” to question what the government says or does. But to claim that one side or the other are the only ones causing a problem or an issues is naive at best and dishonest at worse and only demonstrates that the group is biased (ignores the complicity of the Left) and has drawn conclusions (the Right is wrong) and assigned blame regardless of the actual players (which are both the Left and the Right).
~~~~~
I am sure you will find this response to be “silly” like my other response but that is your problem and not mine.
Anonymous

Would you consider contacting Think Progress and Talk Left? They are political blogs, the owner Josh Marshal covers more Maine news than any media outlet in the state. Our previous governor, baldaci, allowed the same give aways to the wind farm corporations. Called them TIFs. Seems coordinated to give Maine away. Maine was exporting energy and the transmission grid was full. Made no sense but our governors seem to be joined at the hip to these corporations.
kkmousse

Aprison puts a strain on Town services. Will they have to upgrade fire, police, medical services to meet the increase of people in the town? That happened in a town in CT with a State Prison. The Prison used to have there own fire services. The eliminated it during cost cutting and figured to use the Towns services. This caused an increase in visits to the prison for those services. If your services are at the prison on a call, are there still others to cover another call elsewhere in the Town.
The issue of poor pay. A for profit will always pay the least amount of money to boost profits. They offer poor training.
There is nothing wrong with people that work at McDonalds. They are fine, I worked there once a long time ago. But it points out that minimal educational and training requirements are needed. It is a job for someone in high school or just starting out. Not a place to pay bills and hold a family togather with that is for sure. If that is all you can find for work. Then we know we are in deep crap in the job market!
Go on the internet and check out sources on for profit prisons and private prisons.
Currently there is a move by States to return there prisoners back to home states, to save money. They are finding that the savings is not there anymore. If that happens will you end up with a big empty prison. There is a lot of things to look at.
Good luck.
Anonymous

Probably hit reply to the wrong comment. Sorry.
Numbrrrs

I’ve responded to this twice and it doesn’t show up. My head explodes.
Anonymous

In 1996, under President Clinton, the U.S. government prohibited any
federal money for welfare benefits going to legal non-citizens during
their first five years in our country. The feds wanted to ensure that
immigrants did not become a public burden. States that decided to keep
paying those benefits had to do so with state money only. Maine was one
of them.

Maine is one of several states that provide state-funded welfare
benefits to non-citizens. The benefits include food supplements,
Medicaid and cash payments under TANF – Temporary Assistance for Needy
Families.

Maine also is one of a few states that provide welfare benefits to
convicted drug felons with no requirement for drug testing or treatment
for addiction. The federal government, as part of the 1996 welfare
reform, prohibited any federal benefits for convicted drug felons.
However, it gave states the option to keep paying those benefits with
funds from state taxpayers. Maine chose to keep paying.

Following federal policy, most states set a strict five-year time limit
on TANF cash assistance. Maine, once again, is an exception.

I know things like this make peoples heads explode…but doing nothing to change them will make the state budget explode to the point we will be bankrupt.
Anonymous

LOVE how you answer a simple question….. so…How many and which judges in Maine do you think would collude with criminals and accept bribes?
Anonymous

you don’t seem to understand….when a juvenile is sentenced in state juvenile court to a term of confinement, that term is for an INDETERMINATE period. It’s not like an adult sentence of, say 5 years with all but 2 years suspended. A juvenile is sentenced to “a term not less than six months (example) and not to exceed their 21st birthday.” Therefore, your scenario of “extending the length of detention due to not cleaning up their room (cell)” is not exclusive to private prisons. Show me a specific case where the juvenile was given a determinate sentence (like 2 years) and that juvenile’s term was extended because he/she didn’t clean their cell. thanks in advance.
Anonymous

I wonder if you have first-hand information or evidence of all your claims? Have you worked in a private prison? A state or federal prison? County jail? Does CCA post their job openings online? How about their salaries? Apparently they have made public the amount of permanent jobs they will offer, working inside the facility. If you know how many staff positions there are, then you should know how many inmates they can accomodate—well, if you’ve ever worked in a prison, you’d know. So, since you obviously have a negative view of private prisons, and are giving all these “statistics”, I can only think you have first-hand knowledge of them. How much does CCA pay their Correction Officers per year?
Anonymous

BINGO!
Anonymous

You bet I do. The pervasive corruption of our elected officials, Republican and Democrat, is there for all to see at the sites you cited. Thank you.
Anonymous

We have something we agree on and I only wish our elected representatives could do the same thing…find something to agree on.

State

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