AUGUSTA, Maine — The number of Maine households receiving welfare benefits through the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program decreased by more than 3,000 between January and July of this year.
State welfare officials and advocates agree that the approximately 26 percent drop in Maine’s TANF caseload since January results directly from the implementation this year of a 60-month limit on how long each household can receive benefits. They also agree that what happens to families whose benefits expire must be monitored closely — and that the system will have to change to better meet their needs.
Federal welfare reform measures enacted during President Bill Clinton’s administration in 1996 allow states to set a 60-month limit on eligibility for the TANF program. Maine opted out of that provision until last year, when Gov. Paul LePage included the eligibility cap in his biennial budget.
The law implementing Maine’s 60-month limit took effect in January of this year. State officials expect to realize the $2.5 million in state savings that were budgeted as a result of the change, according to Dale Denno, director of the Maine office of family independence, which administers TANF and other public assistance programs.
The law allows families to receive TANF benefits beyond 60 months if they qualify for extensions or exemptions based on specific hardships.
“Our concern is that only 20 percent of [affected] families have gotten extensions,” said Chris Hastedt of Maine Equal Justice Partners, an anti-poverty organization that provides support and information to low-income Mainers. “We wonder where those other families are now. There are around 5,000 kids in those families.”
Municipal officials claim that many are turning to the General Assistance program, which is administered by cities and towns. General Assistance pays for basic needs of families or individuals imperiled by emergency circumstances or lack of income. State and municipal governments share the cost of General Assistance, with larger cities receiving higher reimbursements based on their history of serving a greater number of people in need.
“We don’t yet know the size of the impact [on General Assistance], but there’s likely to be some,” Denno said. A work group studying those implications and other aspects of General Assistance will report its findings to the Legislature, he said.
Since May, Portland has paid an additional $26,730 in General Assistance benefits to 28 households, representing 111 individuals, who qualified for increased General Assistance after their TANF expired, according to Nicole Clegg, the city’s communications director. Those families had already received some form of General Assistance, she said.
“We said from the beginning that it would just cause a cost shift,” Clegg said, noting that municipal officials have expressed their concerns to legislators and the task force studying General Assistance. “The need wouldn’t go away. We’ve seen the cost shift.”
“The amount of burden shifted to General Assistance was not as large as anticipated, but there was a shift,” said Kate Dufour, a senior legislative advocate for the Maine Municipal Association and member of the task force on General Assistance. “As people are denied or exhaust [TANF] extensions, the shift to General Assistance will continue.”
To slow that transition in Portland, which handles 42 percent of all General Assistance administered in Maine, according to Clegg, city officials work with applicants to explore other benefit options, including state aid.
“We make sure that they are pursuing any mainstream resources that they would qualify for,” she said. “If they qualify for [TANF] exemptions, we would work with them.”
Rather than concentrating on which branch of government provides benefits, Denno wants his department to focus on how it can “effectively support that bridge to independence for individuals who are going off TANF.”
“We would like to see an increase in the number of recipients going to work, less recidivism and a focus on pursuing realistic education goals,” he said.
Welfare to work
The time limit on TANF benefits is based on the premise that five years is enough time for most public assistance recipients to make a transition to gainful employment. Before January, there was no time limit for families with eligible children.
“Before the passage of the TANF five-year limit, Maine was one of only seven states that did not have even this very generous limit,” said Scott Moody, president of the Maine Heritage Policy Center, which plans to release an update of its 2010 report on welfare reform, “Fix the System,” within a few weeks. “As numerous studies have shown, enforcement of this policy will drastically reduce dependence, lower poverty and increase employment in Maine as it has done throughout the country.”
The flaw in the argument that a time limit will encourage more people to find jobs is that it overgeneralizes the TANF caseload, according to Hastedt.
“In 1996, when TANF was enacted, it was a different time and population,” she said. “There was a great economy. Many of the families that could go to work, did. Disproportionately, the families on TANF today have a higher percentage of children with disabilities. The program needs to adapt to address the needs of the current caseload.”
Bethany Hamm, director of programs and policy for the office for family independence, agreed. “There are families on TANF with significant barriers to work — a disabled child, for instance — which complicate their being able to pursue employment,” she said. “As we go forward, we will look to provide more alternative pathways to people with barriers.”
Denno pointed to an interagency strategic planning session scheduled for Oct. 3 and 4 as a place where state officials can work together to look for those alternatives. Representatives from the Department of Labor and the Department of Education will participate.
“We will identify the best strategy to address these issues,” Denno said. “In the past, it was a fractured approach. Now, there is a tremendous sense of cooperation in approaching this in a unified way.”
Denno and Hamm believe that the 60-month limit has elevated accountability among TANF recipients who are required to participate in some form of work program, as mandated by the 1996 federal welfare reform act.
Denno said the time limit puts “more pressure on individuals to be an active partner” in conceiving and executing a plan to enter the workforce.
Moody suggests that Maine take an even stricter approach.
“Maine should implement a Wisconsin-style work program in place of the existing ASPIRE program,” he wrote in an email. “Specifically, the state should require that every welfare recipient perform some type of work in exchange for benefits, carefully structuring such a system to mirror, as close as is possible, the broader world of work.”
ASPIRE, or Additional Support for People in Retraining and Employment, is the education, training and work program that most parents getting TANF must participate in.
Citing a 2010 survey of TANF families in Maine, Hastedt rejects that type of one-size-fits-all policy. Among the survey’s findings are that 97 percent of respondents had work experience but that nearly a quarter lacked a high school diploma or GED. Lack of safe, affordable child care and health problems ranked among the greatest obstacles to independence.
For those reasons, and others, Hastedt said, “The way the time limit is designed doesn’t respond adequately to needs of families that are on TANF for a long time.”
She suggests that the state conduct a “qualitative assessment of what’s kept them on and give them the services to become job ready.”
Hastedt also believes initiatives such as the Parents As Scholars program, which provides TANF-like support for parents enrolled full time in college classes, offer a greater likelihood of lasting success. Enrollment in that program decreased from 587 in January to 390 in July.
Corresponding to Maine’s lower TANF caseload — caused by the newly imposed time limit — the number of recipients taking part in ASPIRE training and job readiness programs decreased from 8,990 in January to 6,883 in July. The average ASPIRE worker’s caseload is approximately 180 recipients, according to Denno.
Hamm hopes that the lower caseload will allow her department “to reinvest that money into transitional programs that keep people working.” The state provides support services such as extended child care, transportation assistance and medical coverage to help families make the transition from TANF to work.
“We expect to build a better skilled workforce within our TANF population,” Hamm said. “We want to promote a greater success within this group.”
Robert Long is a political analyst for the BDN.
The economy is in rough shape, but 5 years seems like way more than enough time for a hard working Mainer to figure out an alternative.
Agree & spot on comment…..
That sounds true – from the perspective of someone who’s not struggling just to get by.
If you knew what it was like to have to depend on government assistance to survive, though, you’d be singing a very different tune. Finding work isn’t terribly difficult. Finding employment that will you pay enough to cover all your living expenses? That’s next to impossible for far too many people.
And finding safe child care is next to impossible, finding it for weekends is even harder plus it cost almost what you earn..
If you can’t afford to have kids, then don’t. Don’t expect me to feed and care for them.
Go ahead and blame adults, not a problem. But I am more than happy to make sure there is public money to feed and care for children.
Wow. Spending my money isn’t a problem for you, is it.
Not in the least. I’m sure you spend my money all the time.
Sure. on items that we SHOULD as a country being using our tax dollars for. Like..infrastructure. Not to provide a “food supplement” for a young woman here on this posting who has chosen to forego getting child support from the father of her child, gets a food supplement from the government, but, oh, yes, has enough “discretionary income” to have a computer and an internet connection, which all COSTS MONEY. If you have any discretionary income, at all, you should NOT BE getting government assistance. Period.
”
a young woman here on this posting who has chosen to forego getting child support from the father of her child”
****
It’s her fault the guy is a deadbeat? Please tell me the last time you lobbied for tougher sanctions for dead beat dads or offered your home as an adoptive or foster parent?
“If you have any discretionary income, at all, you should NOT BE getting government assistance. Period. ”
******
Does this apply to General Electric and Haliburton also? Seems to me if those companies can write off one golf game as a business meeting, we can spring for some mac & cheese for the kids down the road. Provide a solution that doesn’t punish the kids. The only solution I can think of is that good families open their doors to needy children. With 1,000’s of Maine kids suffering from physical and sexual abuse, waiting for homes, I doubt there is a better solution for the (pardon my made up term): the abuse of poverty.
YES it’s her fault if she has a child with a deadbeat dad!!! She picked him, after all!!
And YES it applies to GE and Haliburton. I have written to my senators asking to end all subsidies to the tobacco industry, I’ve supported legislation that would end the hiring of military personnel by military suppliers such as Raytheon and Haliburton. YES it all needs to be addressed.
Thanks for admitting that the big corporations are corrupt and that we don’t live in a free market.
Now if you will start blaming some men instead of picking on women, you might look decent.
Unlike you, I don’t distinguish between the genders. Personal responsibility isn’t just a concept for women, but for everyone. If you really want to debate me on the issue of who is MORE IN CONTROL over a decision to have a baby that lacks paternal support, have at it.
If a man sleeps with a woman, and she gets pregnant and wants to keep
the child, he should step up to the plate and pay his equal share and do
an equal amount of child-raising. That’s equality.
probably the most reasonable thing you have said and I agree with you %100 on this.
I will also say our system is also not a free market it is rigged by the big shareholders, bankers, wall street executives , Rothschilds, Rockefellers, etc. government regulation and the crony capitalism has ruined our free market economy.
Oh, sure, let’s mandate not only that he pay his fair share, but lets’ require that a man who has NO INTEREST in a child also take on personally supervising that baby. Name Ayla Reynolds mean anything to you?
Why don’t you just cut a check if you want to help folks out. Lots of folks do. I suggest the following organizations. Penquis Cap home heating fund, Spruce Run, The United Way backpack program, http://www.camkids.org/html/000.html
The government mandating personal charity is not charity at all. It becomes a burden and a resentment.
PENQUIS gets plenty of LIHEAP money. united way is def a good one, or Unicef if you trust the UN to get your donation to the really hungry and sick kids.
Penquis Cap does not have enough money to heat all the homes of the elderly that need help.
United Way Backpack program
http://www.unitedwayem.org/content/4171/the-backpack-program
http://www.sprucerun.net/you-can-help/donate/
there are always people who need/want free heat in the winter but the elderly typically go to the top of the list. So yeah maybe plenty was a bit of an overstatement but I do not believe they are turning people away this season.
Yes, thank you, I am a United Way donor of long standing.
Government mandates a lot of things I don’t agree with; but I assume a good percentage of my fellow citizens do, so I grin and bear it.
Blame the conservatives who have giant families because it’s “God’s will”They’re getting PLENTY of tax breaks while childless people bear the burden.Look at the Duggars and the Octomom.
Thank you! Not only do we (childless people) have to pay for public education, (which I completely support), the tax breaks parents receive are just outrageous. I imagine it costs a small fortune to raise children but it’s the choice people make. I want to scream when I hear them brag about what they are going to buy with the money they are ‘getting back’ and it often includes non necessities. Very annoying!
How unfortunate your parents had children.
The more you talk, the better Obama looks.
How rude! I may not have children but my husband and I love kids and we are very generous.
I am more than willing to contribute via taxes to ‘our’ children’s college educations. I also support universal health care although we are considerably healthier than the average citizen. I was just trying to point out that many people do not have their priorities straight. Use tax rebates to stock up on fuel for the winter instead of buying a 56 inch flat screen. I don’t have one and I work my tail off.
Ezekiel 16:49 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”
Help, yes. Fund their career, no.
“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”
The prevailing attitude around here seems to be more along the lines of, “Build a man a fire and he’s warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he’s warm for the rest of his life.”
how is limiting welfare dependency to 5 years setting someone on fire?
And what happens when people who had a job, and had kids, lose the job? It could happen to YOU or to your own child or grandchild. Perhaps you’ll find some compassion then…
I have been jobless. I have been homeless. I have been a single parent. Not since I was 15 years old have I gone more than 2 weeks without a job. I have never believed that my neighbors were responsible for my livlihood. I have never been the helpless imbicile that you want people to believe they are. I have never been so desparate that I wanted the government to control my life by “taking care of me”. There is not one excuse in this world why any, even somewhat able bodied adult in this country should be on welfare for more than 5 years. It’s either ingrained in them from birth that that’s the way it should be or they have bought into the liberal idea that we are all helpless and need the government to take care of us or they are just plain lazy and see no reason to change. Thankfully, my parents raised me to know that I am responsible for my life and my happiness. That, with very few exceptions, we are all products of our own decisions. I will never allow you to teach my child differnetly.
You believe that, because YOU were always able to find work (likely during the years when unemployment was not as devastatingly high as it is now), anyone who cannot find work for an extended time these days is a helpless imbecile.
That’s sad.
You always have the reply, but never address the issue. The fact is if you are willing to put your pride aside and not let yourself be defined by the job you do, you will always find work. That’s what Riley is saying.
Now you are just being deliberately ignorant. I am nearing 60 so I promise you I have lived through good times and bad. I have worked since I was 14 and the only time I spent out of a job was when I was looking for a job. I always found one because I had to find one. some were good jobs, some weren’t. I never bought anything that I couldn’t pay for with money I earned. I bought my clothes for $1 a bag at church rummage sales and I lived in places where I am sure you would never set foot. It never occred to me that anyone owed me anything. Thank God. If I had done things your way, I would still be in that palce. As it is, I am doing quite well. Thanks to me. I never fell for the idea that I was entitled to anything. I always knew that my life was my responsibility and I never doubted my ability to take care of myself. Other than wealthy, I have lived in every financial circumstance. I’ve been homeless and I’ve owned business and yes, I’ve employed people. Evil person that I am. Your thinking is what is wrong with this country. Everyone has to be raised to believe they are a helpless victim and not capable of ever acheiving anything. Shame on you. It is you that holds people down. Yes, I believe in helping the truley needy and even at my poorest I volunteered many hours to do just that. I do not believe in taking away people’s dignity by teaching them to be helpless.
I’m older than you are, so I’ve seen a lot, too. I still buy my clothes at Goodwill, incidentally (old habit), though I work 50-hour weeks for good pay.
I’ve been around enough and seen enough to know that these times are exceptionally tight. It doesn’t surprise me a bit that many people who work hard and strive hard have been utterly unable to find new jobs, ANY new jobs, year after year.
To my mind, what’s wrong with this country is that multi-millionaires are successfully using a divide-and-conquer tactic to turn the middle class against the working poor and both classes against people who are desperately impoverished. The aim is to slash and destroy all social welfare programs, on the ground that “good” people will never need them.
Bad things do happen to good people, and sometimes all the goodness and hard work in the world isn’t enough to overcome them, for a person who is without assistance.
Some people’s bootstraps are minimal to nonexistent. Some have prison records and no one will hire them. Some have marginal IQs. Some have disabilities that get in the way of a lot, but aren’t total enough to qualify for SSI. Some are taking care of ill, elderly, or disabled family members while ill and/or aging themselves. Some are dealing with mental illnesses.
I’m not one of those people, but I have a disabled adult daughter and I know that between one moment and the next there could be another disabled person in my extended family–another child, a grandchild, an in-law, a cousin… There could be someone who’s suddenly unemployed and can’t find a job no matter how hard they try. Or someone caring for a suddenly disabled loved one.
You can blame “liberals” for these problems, but they’re simply part of being human. The Republican party’s leaders has NO intention of sorting out the “truly needy” from those who are “lazy.” They aim to make sure no one has access to a social safety net.
sorry but you are just diluusional if you think it’s millionaires who started or are who are encouraging the class warfare we see today. President Obama gives a speech everyday claiming to the ill informed that it is the fault of the rich that there are people who are not rich. What a bunch of pure baloney. If you aren’t where you want to be in life then look in the mirror to find the one to blame. You just can’t seem to comprehend that giving lifelong hand outs to people destroys those people. You also can’t seem to comprehend that the truley needy who you claim to care about are being robbed every single day by those who could work but have been convinced not to try. with today’s technology there are few people who couldn’t find a way to earn an income. You can do it without ever getting out of your chair. And just about anyone, including myself can qualify for SSI. I was injured and could no longer do what I had always done. I did not just give up, stay home and let my neighbors support me. I found another way to support myself. People with less than marginal IQs work everyday so that is no excuse. People who have been to prison work everyday. but why would they even try if you have your way? Again, it is you who hold them down. It is I who believe they should try to do better for themselves.
We can agree to disagree. If your side wins, when you or your family hits desperately hard times, there will be no help to be found, anywhere. You will have cut off your own nose to spite other people’s faces.
Who feed you when you where 3 ?
I suppose you where a self sufficient little rug rat!
My parents, who made sacrifices and held JOBS. Crazy, huh?
Don’t forget Paulie put child care workers in his sights as such an overpaid crowd,along with teachers.And there’s SO many new jobs in Maine since the famous sign made in NC was put up(cough)
Excellent comment!
The problem is not with the “hard working” Mainers. The people in this group tend to figure out alternatives pretty fast and get on their feet rather quickly – well within 60 months and even in a tough economy. The problem is with those who continue to blame others and make excuses for their current situation. The TANF limits should work to give that demographic a “nudge” in the right direction to become less dependent on taxpayer funded aid and more dependent on their own skill sets and abilities.
As Ben Franklin said: “He that is good at making excuses is seldom good at anything else.”
John 3:17 “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?”
Yes, we need to help the needy. However, we cannot help them to the fiscal detriment of all and beyond that point at which we need to teach them to fish. President Clinton wisely defined that as 60 months and Maine is wise to adopt that prudent, responsible measure.
Yes, and Clinton is liberal. Go figure.
Have to remember, Clinton was wise for his time: good economy, lots of jobs, etc. The same can not be said for today.
Short, to the point and VERY accurate. It’s too bad that LePage doesn’t have the same perspective. But then again he doesn’t have to worry about keeping a roof over one’s head and food on the table.
Right Dane, and what really is needed is a look at the true picture, if a family of four have living cost more than they earn, honestly working, then, I think some kind of PAR system should kick in to bring them to breaking even.Working is fine,I have done it all my life, but I always made enough to cover the cost of living, a lot of people now work, but do not make enough to cover even half the cost of living. The systems seems to work very well now, I wish they would leave it alone, because these republicans are going to cost a lot of people, kids a lot of misery just to balance a 20 million dollar budget,in the US 20 millions is not worth being cruel to families. The jobs offered now do not make par with cost of living, this has to be addressed.
As I recall, a Republican House and Senate helped him with said definition. A lot.
Wise, my glutius maximus. Clinton made it 5-years so nobody would lose their government check until AFTER his 2nd term was over. Just a play to fool the rubes.
did the needy have tvs, modern plumbing, cars, etc when they wrote the bible? christ gave the poor bread, he didnt pay their electric bill. modern poor in america are better off than the wealthiest ever were throughout history.
the principle of that quote is certainly good, but when discussing policy/budget details such platitudes don’t help us. how can someone quantify the level of government benefits and design of programs that qualify as sufficiently charitable and moral?
by your logic, you and everyone else in america, even those on tanf, are ignoring real, desperate poverty elsewhere in the world.
i expect to see you liquidating your assets and sending the check to sudan in order to keep your soul in favor with christ and ensure you live the values by which you judge others.
hey, you’ll probably make the front page of the bdn and finally make it out of the peanut gallery.
Plenty of children in America go hungry and your attempts to ignore them are sad and cruel.
You don’t really believe that do you? I mean anyone who does not have money to eat can get food stamps. Give me a break!
17 million hungry children:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/hunger_at_home/hunger-home-american-children-malnourished/story?id=14367230
children are obese in this country. find one article of someone starving in america in the past ten years. spruce, as always, you are a self-righteous joke.
if you really care stop commenting on bdn all day and do some real good in the world and stop telling others to do more. charitable people don’t judge others but focus on their own good works.
17 million hungry children:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/hunger_at_home/hunger-home-american-children-malnourished/story?id=14367230
this article is making a case for “food insecurity” not widespread famine. It is about kids not having access to nutritious foods. children who attend public school will get at least 1 full nutritious meal a day along with possible supplemental nutrition in the AM. If children are not getting proper nutrition it is on the parents who have not been responsible about what they provide their children with. If they cannot afford food and they have kids they get food stamps and food stamps often come with some basic nutrition counseling.
Again provide us with some information about actual STARVATION stories about people dieing because they haven’t eaten in 2-3 weeks.
I’m sorry that hunger in children doesn’t affect your conscience. It makes me wonder if you have one.
By the way, yelling doesn’t really help you impress undecided readers.
I’m sorry that you equate a conscience with wildly out-of-control spending to the exclusion of expecting people to take some resonsibility for meeting their own (and their children’s) needs. The Left has spent decades laying the “kids going hungry” guilt trip on the American taxpayer. I submit that in all too many cases the only thing unlimited welfare fosters is an unlimited aversion to finding gainful employement. I had an interesting conversation with a retired Maine State Trooper the other day. He told me that he retired because he could no longer tolerate the escalating calls to intervene with the very population about which you are so concerned- the drugs, the domestic violence fueled by those drugs, the kids who see this when they should be seeing mom/dad/both setting and achieving goals in their lives. One of the most ludicrous stories to come out of the teachers’ strike in Chicago was that schools were being held open so the little kiddies would be sure to get two meals a day! The last time I checked peanut butter and jelly wasn’t that expensive. Of course, that’s not on Michelle Obama’s list of acceptable foods. Jeez, it makes me wonder that my siblings and I lived to adulthood for having eaten PBJ sandwiches all summer. So, kindly spare me the bleeding heart indignation over people having to care for themselves.
No, I equate a conscience with worrying about hungry children. The rest is you seeing things you want to see.
I care about hungry children. I pay taxes which contributes to SNAP/WIC/TANF/SSI. Again that article wasn’t about kids going hungry and starving it was a lack of nutritional sustenance being made available to them. You missed my whole point that we don’t have kids dying of starvation on the scale that is fairly common in many other countries. Low income families with children under 18 are pretty much guaranteed food benifits so don’t give me the guilt trip about going hungry. If the parents can’t buy good nutritional foods and stretch that money to every last penny that isn’t on anyone buy them. I am a 26 year old man and I can budget food for a month on $150-$200 depending how well I want to eat and that is 3 meals a day plus snacks and some beverages. The average family of 4 will get around $700.00 in assistance. that is $175 a person and children eat less and group prepared meals are more cost effective.
I have volunteered time through Key club in highschool and college and for community projects for children as well as some time as a volunteer through the congregational church collecting food and monetary donations, I also have encouraged others to participate in these communities. So to accuse me of not caring about hungry children is ignorant and calous because you don’t know diddly about me. If you want to liquidate your assets and buy a few shopping carts of organic foods for the needy go ahead.
Dying is not the only long-term effect of malnutrition. In fact, its quite a short-term effect with little social cost. Our society bears a cost in terms of future increases in sickness, disease and dependency of the malnourished.
You wanted references?This article talks about children being “dangerously thin”.. I think that qualifies as starving.http://abcnews.go.com/Health/US/hunger-children-america-slow-steady-starvation/story?id=14328390and“Research indicates that hungry children do more poorly in school and have lower academic achievement because they are not well prepared for school and cannot concentrate.”http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspxBut here I am trying to appeal to your self-interest. SpruceDweller’s point is that its a moral issue. Unfortunately I think history shows that SD’s in the minority.
I don’t disagree with your facts at all I am all too aware of the long term effects of malnutrition.
I don’t think any one here is saying stop SNAP/TANF. However, I think reasonable measures to discourage long term dependency on it are just as much a moral issue.
How many of these 17 million children in this study have long term problems with anemia or bone density? I don’t see any concrete figures about this in that article. If kids are born into homes (especially in maine) at or below the poverty line they are applicable for assistance. If parents can’t figure out how to property feed their children maybe they need to not be parents.
I think a bigger problem I have seen with SNAP and other GA programs is families with excessive access to bad food. Frozen/canned foods high in salt/fat it is easy for lazy people to just throw chicken nuggets and fries in front of their kids or hot pockets. So kids might not even be hungry just fed junk so they are fat and tired.
no argument here.
One nutritious me
al a day? Have you ever looked at what these kids get on their trays in the school lunchrooms? Chicken fingers, pizza, cheese burgers, french fries. The only “nutrition” in those items is fat! And, by the way, our tax dollars are paying through the nose for that “junk.” Do you still wonder why our children are obese?
Just because children are obese it doesn’t mean they are healthy and not going to bed hungry. Unhealthy children often progress into unhealthy adults that require increased medical support. Try to think about the big picture!
this is true. but maybe instead of giving them endless money for junk we could spend some of that money on programs to educate about cooking/eating healthier and preparing people for an eventual end to the gravy train of free stuff?
They live in your community Bangornative…take your eyes of the Kardashians for 5 minutes and look around you. It might enlighten you. Also, it is generally a pretty silly and illogical idea to attack someone for posting on BDN forums in a post on BDN forums. Very silly indeed.
There is suffering around us. I agree we should take care of people in our community. However, it is very distasteful to accuse people constantly of not having compassion simply because their ideas regarding policy differ from yours.
You really believe that Maine’s current social programs must not be changed under any circumstances and that maintaining them exactly as they are is the only way for us to be moral. If this is the type of simple thing you can’t understand please stop working with children immediately. I can’t make that any clearer, I can explain it to you, I can’t comprehend it for you. Sorry.Secondly, and again, please read closely, I am criticizing one person who makes it a habit to spend hours each day commenting on the BDN telling people how immoral and heartless they are. How is that productive? It is neither hypocritical or illogical to call someone out on that. I don’t pretend that I can change the world commenting on the BDN. It is your inability to think logically that leads you to that conclusion.
Happy to educate you. Now off to real life. I hate having an injury that leads to a day or so on the couch…it leads me to this forum.
I never said anything about compassion and I never said that things don’t need to change, so I am really confused about what you think I am “Not comprehending.” The whole previous post sounds like a bunch of defensive whining and moaning to me. You have not made any valid counter arguments about anything really.
Read the thread and get up to speed.
I’ll break it down Barney-style for you: SpruceDweller and others make it a habit of accusing anyone who, for instance, doesn’t think that imposing a 5 year limit on TANF is “immoral” or “cruel” or whatever, of being heartless. That argument is illogical.
Maybe some people are cruel in their reasons for supporting welfare reforms, but it is so damn to ridiculous to say that if you don’t support the arbitrary income standards and requirements that were in place for these programs you “hate the poor” and “lack compassion.” It is not only illogical but it is unproductive coming from someone who supposedly wants to help others.
In the case of Spruce, I rarely comment on this site, but I have watched that poster comment for years, spending hours a day, trying to make the same repetitive claims and cast the same self-righteous judgments. Is that really what someone does who cares about others? The best people I know are so immersed in real efforts to help others that they wouldn’t have the time.
Again with arguments that have nothing to do with my post. I don’t give a hoot about your little slap fest with Spruce. Get over it. I never said I agreed with him about anything he posted and I certainly never said anything negatively about you, just your assertions about the poor in your community. You are barking up the wrong tree.
Also, your reasons are irrelevent. Calling someone out about making too many posts a forum when you are admitting to spending tons of time looking at their posts on the same forum is super stupid.
You jumped into this thing like a random child walks in to conversations, referencing several different things and making some assumptions and accusations that are irrelevant.
You must have a learning disability. I am never on here except for occasionally. How is that not clear?
You are so eager to find something hypocritical that you’ve ignored all the substance I discussed.
Last word is all yours. I’m sure it will be as compelling as all of your other drivel.
Continual personal attacks on intelligence are immature and irrelevant to context. You are an ideologue who is clearly incapable of responding sensibly. Just jump straight to your talking points and start attacking people. Typical “drivel.”
Obesity comes from neglect , injury and depresion!
Ever see an Obese american aristocrat?
They have personal trainers, good food , and a stress free enviroment.
The tables have turned my friend, no longer are obese people the people of wealth!
I wept after I read your emotional reply to bangornative27. You are the most thoughtful and intelligent and wonderful contributor to this forum. I’m sure you give most of what you have to feed those famished children. I’m positive that you daily seek out those in need and work to make their lives in this cruel capitalist society better. Why, if you gave them all a ticket to Norway where the people are among the happiest in the universe, they would become happy too. Probably socialist but deliriously happy.
Your argument: If I am not perfect, my arguments are wrong
Counterargument: The strength of the arguments does not depend on me being perfect. You’ve committed the fallacy of ad hominem.
Your argument: You know everything.
Counterargument: You only appear to know about a Forbes article concerning elated Norwegians.
I know it is fun to mock and ridicule people; but it really doesn’t help you with undecided readers. I’d like to see better quality debate in these forums.
maud·lin [mawd-lin]
adjective 1. tearfully or weakly emotional; foolishly sentimental: a maudlin story of a little orphan and her lost dog. 2. foolishly or mawkishly sentimental because of drunkenness.
Nice proof of his point!
S/he had no point.
Go SpuceDweller! What is so wrong about helping the poor and oppressed? I consider it to
be my moral responsiblity/obligation and always have. Socialism is not a bad thing!! Public education is a form of socialism and nobody has a problem with it (I don’t have kids). Call it what it is. The redistribution of wealth. Universal health care will prevent people from becoming ill which will save tax payers in the long run. Why can’t people grasp onto this basic concept? I have witnessed families losing homesteads that have been in the family for over a century, due to medical expenses. Not in America! Things have to change.
Thanks for your comments. I think independent readers will not be impressed by all the blind anger coming from the right. When I get mocked or ridiculed, I simply supply more references or arguments. My goal is to improve the quality of the dialogue in here, which would benefit everyone.
Socialism is not a bad thing,,,,as long as it is not in the U.S. It is not part of the fundamental building blocks of this country. If you are looking for socialism, go look elsewhere. There is plenty to go around.
It’s not always fun to mock and ridicule people; just those who feign knowledge of Norwegians (ad nauseum) and beat the emotional drum of the collective by daily citing 45k dead people clogging our streets.
Nice try Milo, but you really did utilize the fallacy, and it was silly. Your arguments are both weak and disturbing.
Do you actually ever do anything with your life besides post on the BDN comment sections?
The comment was made only because it’s policies like this that puts a chink in the socialist armor. Nothing more. Remember,,,,it’s all about the children, poor, and less than fortunate. Right. What they are missing is that we as Americans have the ability to make our own beds, then sleep in them. But the socialists like to blame others for the bad beds made by some individuals. Personal responsibility is long gone.
What seems to be long gone is the realization that any of us can suddenly be in great need, unexpectedly, and this is the worst economy since the Great Depression.
All other free countries–all–guarantee their citizens affordable access to a doctor. It’s the right and decent thing to do. I’ve seen people who have worked hard all their lives suddenly lose their house to pay for medical bills. Is that fair?
Life is inherently unfair… This is one of the very first lessons I taught my children.
Biology is inherently unfair. Social systems are intentionally built.. no inherent-ness about them. There was a post-Darwin movement called Social Darwinism. Look it up. Its what gave moral courage to the robber barons and exploiters of the 19th and early 20th century and the backlash led directly to the growth of the labor movement, communism, etc. There’s a reason that things are the way they are now. There was great suffering in the past. Your way of thinking will take us back there.
When you teach your kids that life is “inherently” unfair you are teaching them that they have no obligation to justice. Think about that.
*Taps MikeCInMaine on shoulder*
We don’t live in an intentionally built social system. We live in an accidentally built social system. If it ever does become completely intentional, that my friend, is the time when you look around and find some of your neighbors in Soviet style re-education camps. In the meantime nothing is ever fair.
Right on! Those darn hungry and poorly nourished CHILDREN need to step up (literally) into the beds they made and sleep in them!
Name-calling doesn’t change that you’re a bit more selfish than a really really selfish person who has no idea that there’s something else besides being selfish. If you don’t like being called names then stop stereotyping those that disagree with you. The Ad Hominem attack is a good one.. it often works. Give it up already.
There isn’t a single “successful” person in our society that didn’t take a hand-out from someone. I challenge you to name someone who hasn’t received some benefit from things that are provided to us by our society.
How about free public education? Socialism right? Government built roads? Socialism right? The Manhattan Project? Socialism right? Libraries? Socialism? Town snowplows.. definitely Socialism! Real nice how you take the benefits of membership in our society but don’t care about those who can’t contribute as much. I’m not talking about the drugged out parents.. I’m talking about the children.
It’s one thing to take a hand out when needed, and quite another when people form an everlasting lifestyle on the system. These are the people that I sadly don’t have a bleeding heart for. When will the left realize we are going broke over this concept?
It’s ridiculous to include roads, snow plows, schooling and libraries in the same category as a lifetime of welfare. I voluntarily pay taxes to fund your so called socialist projects and I defintely want to help a person in need. But did you know that the “T” in TANF stand for “temporary”?
I have read many of your posts and I cringe at the callousness of the Aynn Rand me first emptiness!
I wept for you!
Aynn Rand – is she yet another happy Norwegian living the proletarian dream?
very very few. missing a meal or 2 a week isn’t starvation and famine on the pandemic levels we have seen and are seeing in africa. remember Somalia in the early 90’s? 300,000 people died of starvation and 1.5 million suffered from severe effects of starvation.
So, it has to get as bad as starving to death before you even begin to care? Talk about monstrous.
how do you care…please tell me how you can live with all this tragedy around you but sit on your computer all day everyday.
Why do you feel a need to attack me? It won’t change the arguments. They stand on their reasonable foundation.
Did you know that Canada has affordable healthcare for all its citizens, government guaranteed, and they are happier and healthier than Americans? Not only that, the per capital government expenditure is far less than ours.
As for sitting at my computer, you can make a lot of money that way, right? And isn’t making money what Republicans find so important?
I am not attacking you. I am asking why you attack others…why can’t you just live up to your values without spending hours a day casting judgment?
You remind me of a sniveling priest in the Spanish Inquisition always trying force people to prove they are sufficiently devout…are you so arrogant you think you hold the appropriate judgment on that?
If you are making money in between these posts and doing well-I am glad for you. But we are talking about the values you profess to hold: compassion, caring, etc. which I find you spend lots and lots of time eagerly accusing others of not having. If you don’t feel like people have compassion, don’t waste time with them. But people can be compassionate without supporting all elements of an existing government program to help the needy.
Are you just bored? You comment on here so much. My recent posts are attributable to a couple days being laid up. But afterwards its back to real life. Compassionate, good people don’t spend so much time worrying about whether others are sufficiently compassionate…they just find people who need help. Move on and spend your energy on the things that matter to you and make you happy. If BDN forum wars is that hobby…then I just feel really bad for you.
I think you are probably a really good person who cares alot about all the horrible things in this world. I just can’t see how you feel you are benefitting anyone by engaging in BDN wars all day. Later, Spruce.
I just don’t see a current national catastrophe like you do. Where I grew up we had plenty of low income families. Something I never saw was kids complaining about how hungry they were. I went to their houses to play and we had hamburgers and hot dogs and spaghetti-o’s with hot dogs cut up in it and good ol PBJ and oddoles of noodles. We all made it to adult hood.
…and then some of the more fortunate Somalians came to Maine, where their suffering continues under the cruel fist of its current mayor, a LePew clone.
Though I do not completely disagree with your vitriol, your logic is very faulty and there are plenty of starving people in this state who lack necessities. I deal with their children every day. It is very sad. To ignore them just so you can classify them as some sort of lazy, dependent, sub par social group is disgusting and far to common in current politics. This state used to be great, now just hateful and selfish.
You need to subscribe to Einsteins theory of relativity!
When someone has the acumulated net wort of 10,000 households and the others have become totally subservant to those for their existance then there is something fundementaly wrong with the system!
I suppose Christ would endorse the golden toilets in Saudi Arabia at he cost of outhouses for the rest of us!
I think you’ve made an important distinction. I think Christ was talking about essentials and people who are really in need. Yet, I see many locals who, even as they cry poverty, spend money on ipads, the latest technology, tattoos and cigarettes.
Also, the Bible does put Josh’s quote in a greater context here as the Apostles taught: “Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: ‘Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.’ Yet
we hear that some of you are living idle lives, refusing to work and
meddling in other people’s business. We command such
people and urge them in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down
and work to earn their own living.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12
Ok But how can you reconcile the entitlement mentality you create when you support someone for years?
How can you let the truly needy suffer and call them unworthy?
You create slaves and call them needy?
Free them.
You create corporate monsters and call it a ‘free market’?
Wake up.
Grow up.
Please work to improve the quality of debate in these forums. Thank you.
I will as soon as you do. It would help if you stopped acting like a 5 year old that just fell off his bike and skinned his knee.
It would be most enjoyable if you’d be willing to “lead by example” rather then the continued name-calling.
Ain’t NEVER seen a starving child in Maine. Ever.
I’ve never seen a ‘starving’ child either, but I saw plenty come to school very hungry and didn’
t have a meal other than school.What happened to them when school wasn’t in?
What crap. Kids come to school “hungry” and you think they’re starving and we need a government program?
As someone in the educational system, I can tell you the majority of kids come to school hungry but not because of food issues, but PARENTING issues. Mom and Dad don’t get up ontime to make sure Junior eats breakfast. Or they let Junior sleep in because it’s easier than being a parent and making them get up. Or Mom and Dad simply don’t get up at all.
By the way, the majority of kids in our schools are obese. I see it all the time. NOT STARVING.
They do come to school hungry–and that should be enough to make us concerned for them. But you don’t seem to care at all. For you, if they are not literally starving, it doesn’t matter.
Of course I am concerned! But the solution is not to give the parents the opportunity to be even less responsible than they already are. We already feed the kids breakfast and lunch. What EXACTLY would you propose we do?
Constantly punishing people, and perceiving them as bad, is not the answer. The Canadians are far happier and healthier than us, and have a better economy. Don’t you think we can learn something from them?
then go live in canada you obviously can’t reason with us monstrous Americans and I doubt you will ever be truly happy here you would probably much happier in the great white north.
I grew up on the border and my husband is a proud Canadian citizen. It is a wonderful country in many, many respects. He’s not there now because 30+ years ago, while in college, he fell in love with me. The streets are clean, people are friendly and they don’t have to worry about paying for health care and a college education. Is that really so bad? I understand the taxes are high but it’s worth it in the long run, don’t you think?
I dunno, Canada has 10% of our population and probably 10% of our problems. We have two different systems of governance and our populace are very different. I know larger cities in canada have a fair amount of diversity but even with a slight ethnic mixing the culture is by and far homogenous at least on a provincial level.
I never said they were starving.They do come to school hungry; some haven’t had an evening meal.Whatever the reason, they do deserve to have something to eat.I don’t know what your background is to say the majority of children in our schools are obese.Too many are,yes, but not the majority in the schools that I’ve dealt with. It’s easy to sit on the outside and criticise.Yes, children and adults have a right to have food.Noone should ever be hungry in a country as rich as ours!
Yeah, but you dance for joy and sing the praises of the rich being ENTITLED to hide their money in the Caymans (“job creators”, yeah right) for years, and the oil corporations being ENTITLED to
tax subsidies while making record profits for years, and companies like Halliburton being ENTITLED to no bid contracts for years, and insurance companies being ENTITLED to not ensure people for years, and polluters being ENTITLED to pollute for years, and K Street lobbyists being ENTITLED to buy off the TeaPublicans for years, and corporations being ENTITLED to write off the costs of shipping our jobs overseas for years, and all the rest of that kind of MASSIVE “entitlement mentality.” TeaPublicans are deeply in love with THEIR big government spending, and there is TONS of it. Yes, people should be responsible. But ALL of the people, including your corporate toadies.
I do wish just once someone could show where any oil company has ever received a tax subsidy. This is a left wing myth. Oil companies do not receive subsidies. Solar companies do. Then they donate a good chunk of our money to the democrat party, then they declare bankruptcy and our money disappears. If you think the rich do not create jobs then please tell me who does? I have never been hired or paid by a poor person. If you think the Tea Party supports big government spending then you obviously know absolutely nothing about the Tea Party.
This is a well researched and documented article on the topic. The site looks partisan, but the references for the article are not.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/news/2011/05/05/9663/big-oils-misbegotten-tax-gusher/
oh oh…there goes that sticky key again.. Without all those corporations, made of people you bigot, are supporting this nation and many other nations. There are a lot of scammers in the world and too many of the buy votes buy fostering legislation that favors both parties. However, there are many more who are in business with integrity. Be useful, life is not always about a “job”. Personal responsibility allows us to help the truly needy, however you are terrible blind if you do not see the many freeloaders who are stealing from the ones that really need help.
“ENTITLED” to hide their money….” You’ve completely missed the point: it is THEIR MONEY!!! This is always what drives me nuts about you libs- you’re more than happy to spend unlimited amounts of money, as long as it’s somebody else’s and not your own. Furthermore, you can’t compete on the field of ideas, so you revert back to name-calling and throwing daggers at a segment of the population with whom you disagree. What “big government” spending do you attribute to the Tea Party? Speaking of Haliburton- are you aware that the Obama administration relied on hired contractors to protect its late Ambassador to Libya? Jobs are being shipped overseas because the United States has the highest corporate tax rate (35%) in the world. The oil companies realize 8% in annual profits, which is roughly the same as those of Budweiser and Pepsi. Why aren’t you irate with them? You would know this if you did as much research/reading as I’ve done in the last 5 years that the media has spent NOT reporting these things. Keep listening to Chris Matthews.
you are taking that Bible verse way out of context. don’t post things you know nothing about.
dont know what bible your quoting but thats not John 3:17
WOW u talkin bout obamah
On the other hand, they’re pretty resourceful at working hard at not working hard.
· Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously give him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
I agree..
How about 2 Thesolianns 3 7-10. “For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat
We can play Bible tag all day. But let’s be serious for a moment – we all know what’s going on here.
First, you misspelled Thessalonians, which I wouldn’t point out except this is apparently your sacred text. Second, Thessalonians contains a letter from a mere mortal, Paul, to an audience. But the Gospel, which JasonWeb cites, contains direct quotes from Jesus, and no one thinks that Paul outranks Jesus.
In the New Testament, anyway, you’ll find Jesus making multiple statements about showing compassion and giving things to even the “least of these,” whether or not you judge them sinful. In fact, “Judge not that ye be not judged” is a central message.
“Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.”
-Thomas Edison
That is a great quote.
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
Thomas Jefferson
I have a favorite too. “America can only be a great place to live, if it is a little great for everyone”. Teddy Roosevelt.
Hey, nothing to prevent anybody here in America from working hard and making something of themselves. Nothing, unless it’s their own bad choices. A drug conviction, a theft conviction, addictions, unplanned pregnancies. Etc. But even with those options, no other country can match the opportunities to succeed that America provides. But now we want to provide success for lazy people, quitters, and the unimaginative because it is “unfair” that some of us work hard, have multiple jobs, delay gratification of wants by paying for needs and saving for a rainy day, and maintain respectful relationships with friends and family so that we really do have a place to turn to when times are troubled. All that takes work, though.
You sound just like Scrooge.
he sounds right to me. believing you are helping people by convincing them that they are helpless is just ignorant. lifelong, generational welfare has destroyed the families and individuals it was supposed to help. it also means far less help for those who truley do need it.
If acting like Scrooge is the right way to be according to your philosophy, something is wrong with your philosophy.
Obviously you can’t be bothered to actually read my philosophy or you just lack the intelligence to comprhen it. Sorry that my answer may not be as cutesy as yours.
Ah, yes, intelligent response. Scrooge, a fictional character created by Charles Dickens, who left his wife after she bore him ten children for a 20 yr old actress. There’s a man who understood the meaning of compassion.
Your argument: Dickens committed some sins, so the wisdom in his books is flawed
Counterargument: All of us commit sins, but it doesn’t mean we can’t write something important and wise, or give good arguments.
Gee, I’m so pleased you didn’t fall into the trap of name-calling “tom”.
Great leadership once again.
did
the needy have tvs, modern plumbing, cars, etc when they wrote the
bible? christ gave the poor bread, he didnt pay their electric bill.
modern poor in america are better off than the wealthiest ever were
throughout history.
the principle of that quote is certainly good, but when discussing
policy/budget details such platitudes don’t help us. how can someone
quantify the level of government benefits and design of programs that
qualify as sufficiently charitable and moral?
by your logic, you and everyone else in america, even those on tanf,
are ignoring real, desperate poverty elsewhere in the world.
i expect to see you liquidating your assets and sending the check to
sudan in order to keep your soul in favor with christ and ensure you
live the values by which you judge others.
hey, you’ll probably make the front page of the bdn and finally make it out of the peanut gallery.
Compassion for the needy is obsolete because technology changed? That’s all you’ve got?
Did you know that 45,000 Americans die each year from lack of health insurance?
Did you know that 100 BDN readers fall asleep every time you make that claim?
Compassion isn’t obsolete, nor is a government program its measuring stick. But given your insights into how we can achieve an earthly manifestation of perfect moral order, I really am anxious to hear your exact plans for our tax codes, social welfare programs, not to mention any and all social institutions and institutions of government.
Please, we are all waiting to hear you wisdom. I’m sure you have it all typed up…copy-and-paste that stuff instead of worthless platitudes and lines from MoveOn.org. Give us the real answers.I’m sorry you cannot follow a simply stated argument; you must be either delusional or willfully dishonest when you twist words and laughably misunderstood Biblical wisdom into snarky comments solely to accuse others of not being as good a person as you.Spent any time at the soup kitchen lately? How are you doing organizing food drives and gathering clothing for the starving and homeless worldwide? Have you contacted individuals in Maine to help them directly? Maybe you should open your home to a youth without one.Sweetheart, God knows we can only do the best we can do, but trust me, he doesn’t think you are carrying out his wisdom by fulfilling your self-esteem issues with self-righteous condescension. Get off the BDN message board and stop moralizing. Please add substantive discussion when it comes to policy…otherwise your comments are useless and do nothing to serve the values you espouse.
Did you know that Forbes Magazine says all the happiest countries in the world have a strong welfare net:
“[The happiest countries] are all borderline
socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth.”
http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries_print.html
I’d rather be free than “happy”.
No, you’d rather be “free'” than happy.
Corporations take money from you all the time, and you really don’t have any choice about it, and they move their capital right to China.
Corporations are people, you didn’t get the memo? They create something of value with labor. People loan them money to increase the “loan”. And they have to compete. Capitalism is a great thing. Without it you wouldn’t have so much fun sharing your unique view. The little old monk said..” no work, no eat”
Funny. You do not address the posters rather pointed questions. Instead you do the very thing it says. I bet you have never contributed to anything or anyone in a meaningful way.
Your attacks on me don’t put you in a good light. What does it contribute to a reasonable debate? Did you know that Canadians are much healthier than Americans:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/44315.php
what do you do for work dude? how much do you make or how much of your pay is taken from you? Do you work in the private or public sector?
how much do you expect people to pay to support others? when is it enough? Do you expect that the “needy” to have premium fresh organic foods every day of the year? We are just talking about SNAP benifits here too… because EBT cash can be used on anything which is crazy in itself. But please I mean give us a little of your background because you sound like a bleeding heart philanthropist.
Unlikely that poster contributes much. Wants you to do it all.
Coconuts kill more people in the world than sharks do. Approximately 150 people are killed each year by coconuts.
Time to regulate Coconuts.
broken record. did you volunteer today…posting on the bdn doesn’t feed hungry children. you clearly don’t care about them. youre selfish.
What does attacking me get you? Why do you need to hate me?
Your argument: Because someone posts on the BDN, they don’t volunteer or care about children.
Counterargument: One can post comments and also volunteer, therefore you’re wrong.
What does accusing others of being heartless do for you? Why do you do it so often? I know you won’t answer a question but it would be refreshing.
Your argument: If someone doesn’t support the arbitrary income requirements and other guidelines of the social welfare programs that are in place, they cannot be good people with compassion.
Counterargument (know is common-sense): One can have a disagreement about policy without being heartless.
When did you become the self-appointed judge of right and wrong when it came to the complexities of public policy?
Good choice of word, “needy”. I wonder how many people with food supplements had gardens this summer. Oh, yeah, that takes WORK.
Your hatred is clear. Maybe it’s the shouting.
Nope, not hatred. Just pointing out a concept that seems to elude you completely, and you of course, sink to a personal attack.
You seem very angry at the poor, as if it is their fault they are poor. Is that what you believe?
Do you know that over 200,000 Americans did each year from medical mistakes?
And if we can prevent that through government regulation, we should.
you mean punish physicians who make a mistake?
Malpractice is difference then an accident. There are already many laws in place regarding the practice of medicine that is part of the reason it is so expensive because to get licenses to practice and operate facilities is heavily regulated and the schooling required is extensive.
However, you can never regulate human error. People make honest mistakes sometimes pilots, cops, doctors, farmers, teachers, etc. some peoples mistakes unfortunately carry much higher consequence.
Totally wacked. You have cause and effect all screwed up.
Michelobian -12 pack -3:
I would Rather Have a Bottle in Front of Me than a Frontal Labotomy!
you and your neighbors help out, there is a huge difference between compassion and buying votes through the welfare state.
anyone familiar with the Bible would know that it speaks about the value of work. only a fool thinks it’s helping to keep a person down with a lifetime of hand outs. only a fool can’t understand that the welfare given to those who could work but choose not to is the same welfare taken away from the truley needy.
Also about time for Maine to adopt the “Wisconsin style” of program requiring recipients to perform some sort of work for their money, as suggested by Moody.
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Yes, we need to help the needy. However, we cannot help them to the fiscal detriment of all and beyond that point at which we need to teach them to fish. President Clinton wisely defined that as 60 months and Maine is wise to adopt that prudent, responsible measure.
Just between you and me, the “poor” are beating us about the head and shoulders.
The big corporates have destroyed democracy and sucked the middle class dry.
They sure do give out a lot of paycheques, though.
You call those pay checks? I call them “public assistance” wages. They are killing the middle class and widening the gap between the haves and the have nots at an alarming rate.
Yeah, in China.
right, those people work, produce something of value, and market it.. employing the millions who support those who don’t.
The corporations in America today are parasites who cripple the free market system. Giving some Americans jobs doesn’t make them effficient and healthy.
par·a·site [par-uh-sahyt] Show IPA
noun 1. an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.
2. a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.
So, requiring them to to work for their money and help them get a job is “oppressing” them?
as ye sow so shall ye reap.. somewhere in there. work, be usefull..
Your comment is rude and insensitive, I know of many single mothers who went to college and BA’s while working with this program and would have been able to do so without this specific program thru the ASPIRE program called Parents as Scholars or PaS program. This program helps so many.
I don’t know the statistics, but I think many of these aid recipients do work. I know that Wal-Mart, for one, gives lessons to employees on how to successfully apply for government assistance.
Wal-Mart counts on the government to get their employees to an income they can live on.
Then get a better job! Work hard and advance. Go back to school. Is Walmart the only gig?
From what I’ve seen those who work at Wal-Mart, and at many other low wage jobs, do work hard. I’m sure some do advance. But not all can. There aren’t enough supervisory jobs for everyone who works hard.
The community colleges are full and politicians seem unwilling to raise taxes in order to expand them.
Personnaly I think there should be more unions in these places and that ma come about as the service industries get older.
But in the mean time it seems the system is rigged. Here is a link to a Bloomberg News article that might be of interest:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-12/u-s-poverty-rate-stays-at-almost-two-decade-high-income-falls.html
I wish you were right but it appears VERY unlikely.WM has busted unions since day one including closing a store in CA immediately after it unionized due to “market conditions”
Sure.And we desperately need more community colleges working with business.
I think our current welfare system hold people in poverty by attaching restrictions to people who receive aid that prevents them from working. You can’t get unemployment if you are at school (altho that is waived as part of Obama’s stimulus); you lose benefits as soon as you start work so people never get to lift themselves out of trouble. Ie, maybe they did get to school and a part time job, and got mom to baby sit, but the car still needs new tires and the battery is dead. One hiccup and school, work and the sitter all are out of reach.
So we can all enjoy everyday low prices! :) Yeah Right !
i’m against the curve. i’m 26 and always even though i’m a lazy guy want to work and make my own living.
Your absolutely right!
It’s about time that they got the cahounahs to tell Wal-mart that they need to pay a substistance wage or the Unions will be in next week!
The free Ride for the Family that has amassed 40 % of the nations wealth by expoliting the workers of the US is Over!
Republicans are the only major political party in the free world who are still able to convince their followers that the decades-old strategy of slash-and-burn will work. It obviously doesn’t, since we have been following such policies since Reagan, which has only helped the rich.
People are waking up to the importance of programs like Obamacare, which are accepted throughout the free world. For instance,
————
“At the grass-roots level, Americans who are enjoying the ACA’s new benefits understandably do not want them taken away.
The premiums of Americans enrolled in Medicare Part C (Medicare Advantage) have fallen by 16 percent since 2010, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has said.
This year, 13 million Americans or their employers who provide health insurance have received rebates from their insurance companies. That was the result of the ACA’s requirement that insurers spend 80 percent of their money on insurance, as opposed to administrative overhead and bonuses.
Last year, nearly 90 million Americans received free preventative care from their health-care provider through their insurance plans. Before the Affordable Care Act, insurance companies made customers provide a co-pay or a deductible for these often-lifesaving services.
———-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/juan-williams-where-is-republican-anger-over-obamas-health-care-law/2012/09/27/93566e68-0817-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html?tid=pm_pop
“received free preventative care” Did no one pay for this in any way? There is nothing free . The only thing free is the space between a liberal’s ears.
The article was written by Juan Williams of Fox News–so it’s him you’re making fun of, not some liberal. Even your own right wing Newscasters disagree with you.
Gosh… I must have missed Juan’s transition from token Liberal to Conservative on Fox.
Pray tell, when did this transformation take place? Was it after his (unfair) ousting from National Public Radio?
True, Juan moves a bit to the Right when guest-hosting for the dreaded Bill O’Riley; but he’s hardly “not some liberal”. (Gee, double negatives are tough).
Did you know that Romney thinks the windows in airplanes should be able to roll down? He seems to have no concept of the reason for a pressurized cabin:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/geekquinox/clearly-mitt-romney-needs-quick-lesson-air-pressure-160448246.html
Yea I heard Obama wants airplanes to be wind powered with solar backup.
I’ve got a link to prove a direct quote from Romney. You’ve got nothing.
I was making fun of Obama, just like people did with Romney about rolling down the window in the airplane.
Romney wants to build a pipeline all by himself!
It’s called the Romney Pipedream!
Yea it’s so Florida can sell sunshine to the Canadians.
Funny how anytime somebody goes right,life is “unfair”Also the spelling is O’Reilly.PBS is better off without that little snake.
PBS is better off without that little snake.
O’Reilly would whoop your arse intellectually.
Sprucie…….FYI………..Juan Williams is a liberal democrat. You should stop viewing MSNBC and gain some true fact.
Did you know that Maine has lost 10,000 jobs to China since 2001?
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/08/24/business/study-finds-that-us-trade-with-china-has-cost-maine-10000-jobs-since-2001/
And that Romney happily sends jobs to China?
Loosen up the tin foil
and Obama buys solar panel from China for goverment buildings with tax payer money
So, you’re saying that buying something from Walmart is as bad as firing someone and sending their job to a Communist dictatorship?
And Romney hides the money from the deal in Switzerland!
How do you know? Switzerland doesn’t “yet” reveal bank account holders. I think you are talking out of an orifice.
You can thank Mr. Clinton for that! He signed NAFTA, that is why your jobs went overseas!
I never met a Downeaster with the ability to string a misguided sentence together quite so elequently!
To bad Nafta was a Republican Deal from the Reagan Bush Era, Voted on by a Republican Majority in Congress Un Vetoable by the President!
Clinton signed it as a left over from the Bush Administration after some adjustments!
Get your history right or stick to talking to the clams !
Though NAFTA originated with Reagan.. Politicians of both parties supported it.
NAFTA was signed by President George H.W. Bush, Mexican President
Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney in 1992. It was
ratified by the legislatures of the three countries in 1993. The U.S.
House of Representatives approved it by 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993.
The U.S. Senate approved it by 60 to 38 on November 20, three days
later. It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on December 8,
1993 and entered force January 1, 1994. Although it was signed by
President Bush, it was a priority of President Clinton’s, and its
passage is considered one of his first successes. (Source: History.com, NAFTA Signed into Law, December 8, 1993)
Thanks for admitting the Republican origin and drive to pass NAFTA.
Truth is what it is. It is a commentary on both parties.
Also,
Much to the Republican dismay Clinton added safegaurds for displaced workers. Republicans are still trying to eliminate those today>Many Democrats including Clinton bought into the idea as it was enormously lobbied with many false claims of it boosting the American Economy !Much like the falsehood today that Lower Taxes on Corporations will boost our economy. NAFTA is the biggest and Best example of how unlimited Corporate lobby money can distort and corrupt our Political System!Both Sides!
China was WTO brought on board by Clinton and Bush.
Remember 22 Chinese convicted of illegal campaign contributions to Clinton-Gore campaign.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy
How soon these lefties forget.
Nixon = resigned in major scandal
Reagan = sold missiles to Iran under the table. Lied to Congress
George W. Bush = total disaster across the board. Romney won’t even say his name.
So you ignore the China, Clinton election WTO connection? Hypocrite.
Actually, NAFTA, was a trade agreement between the U.S., Mexico, and Canada. No seas to cross. We could have lived with NAFTA. We had enough of a trade surplus with Canada at the time to offset a deficit with Mexico. It is our involvement in the WTO that is killing us and keeping our wages in the toilet. Good news though, the top 1% continue to see their obscene wealth explode. The rest of us, not so much.
Did you not read the comment from 1you812 about Juan Williams?? Its soooo typical of you to not acknowledge you were wrong. You will continue to spew with little facts. Oh I almost forgot, there will be NO PARK FOR YOU!!
“little facts”? Is that what Republicans call them. :)
What’s up with the smiley face? Please stop spruce, it’s really embarrassing.
As if you cared :~)
Then that means they also have been lost while Obama is sitting at the relm….right?
Did you know most lipsticks contain fish scales?
It’s evident you have no idea who Juan Williams.
“My job is not to worry about those [47%] of people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
Romney quote!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57515033-503544/fact-checking-romneys-47-percent-comment/
You do know he’s talking about middle class too, the carrier of taxes.
Oh heck ya.
I agree. We pay more now per week for our Health Insurance since Obama got elected so I dont know where people think he is saving “everyone” any money.
Demaroids…
Take it up with Juan Williams of Fox News, who wrote the article. So I guess you meant to say, Reparoids.
Sprucie,
I’m really getting worried about your state of mental health.
That’s now THREE times you posted, essentially, the same thing in a row.
Do you think none of us can remember your comments that long?
You do realize that many people don’t read every comment, right?
Look at this, a Republican crowd chants “Ryan” but refuses to chant “Romney,” which gets Romney upset.
http://front.moveon.org/facepalm-romney-tries-to-get-crowd-to-chant-his-name-but-this-happens-instead/
They have proven that recording to be edited!!!!!!!!!! Wrong again. I see where you get your info. Typical!!!
No one has proven anything yet. Though you might be right about this one. We’ll see.
“Though you might be right about this one.” It’s a fact! You just can’t comprehend!
Moveon.org spruce? Come on, no wonder you comments are ridicules. We are embarrassed for you.
Here you go spruce. http://www.therightscoop.com MSNBC CAUGHT DOCTORING ANOTHER CLIP TO MAKE ROMNEY LOOK PATHETIC…..
It is hard to remember dumb, irrelevant comments more than a few seconds….
It is hard to believe all that kathleen Sebelius has to say. I know of noone to date that has recieved a rebate from their health insurance companies. We are all on the same page in that we need medical care. I believe the objective of Gov. Le Page’s efforts in reducing the number of people who recieve Welfare is too first get the Cheaters off the Welfare list. At the same time, many efforts in Maine to provide job education is in the best interest of those who need to learn a vocation to become independent and productive citizens. Too many Nay Sayers that have nothing nice to say about Gov. LePage, would be less argumentative about him, if they truely could identify with people who merely exist as they live on Welfare. This also sends a message to the young teens that should they get pregnant, it could be very difficult to get welfare assistance. Those teens are not entitiled as so many believe that they are.
In reducing the welfare roll, more people will be inclined to see that working is a good thing and earning a wage can be far better than getting a handout. This also allows for the truely needy to have the help they need.
The article was written by Juan Williams of Fox News. So you can take it up with him, if you think he is inaccurate. But Fox is always “Fair and Balanced.”
Juan Williams and Fox News/ the article was written by a BDN staff member. SO what is your point? Personally, I do not watch FOX. so you can ponder that if you care too.
My health care rebate from United Health Care was $206. I got $103, and my employer got back $103. Not a fortune, but every little bit helps!
You are the first I have heard that actually recieved a rebate. Good for you.
How many employees in your group. We got crapola.
Those rebates are bogus.
Ouch…
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/mitt-romney-obama-battleground-states-polls-17327122
If Obama is re-elected he will be ineffective for another four years.
You mean the Republicans will do all they can to stop progress, like they did with Obamacare, and failed.
Obamacare passed when Democrats had a house majority. It would not happen in the current environment.
It will be 2016 before the Democrats have a shot at house control again. If then.
Thanks for admitting that Obama was effective during his first term.
For a few months only. Not since and if he is reelected, never again.
Ah, here I differ with you, cheesecake. No president is really truly effective until they are a lame duck and no longer have to worry about re-election. On that basis alone, Obama is a better choice than Romney.
I understand your point. Under normal historical circumstances I might agree. This presidency is different in that this President made foolish claims a couple months into his presidency that he did not need Republicans. He didn’t of course early on. Since 2010 he needed Republicans and has passed nothing since. You can only insult the big boys once. His only governing power now is executive order and agency rule making. Both can be immediately tossed out by the very next President. Should Obama be re-elected he will not move his personal agenda one inch unless he caves in majorly to Republican initiatives. He will be a lame duck the moment he takes office. All power will reside in the House and the Senate no matter which party controls the Senate. The Republican clearly will retain control of the house.
How are they bogus? I got one.
Our company got zip, zero, nada. How many in your group?
That’s because the LePage admin blocked the rebates.
We are talking federal obamacare. LePage& Maine have nothing to do with it. Ignorance.
Someone must have really hurt you when you were a child.
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/08/05/health/only-10000-mainers-see-rebates-as-obamacare-provision-takes-effect/
“While those on private insurance plans in many other states are starting to receive those checks or credits toward their insurance premiums — in some cases as much as $500 — most people on privately funded plans in Maine will see nothing.
This is particularly true for Mainers who purchase their own insurance policies and do not belong to a large group plan. Part of the reason for that is, in 2011, the state requested and was granted waivers that allowed companies selling insurance in Maine to spend more on administration than was allowed under the ACA.”
Then tell me if we are discussing your rebates why do some Mainer’s get it and other not?
I think we must be talking about two different Obamacare credits.
I invite all readers to check out the article for themselves and draw their own conclusions.
And, as always, let me remind you that being polite will make you far more effective with undecided voters. I urge you to stop with the rudeness, for your own sake..
There are eleven people where I work who subscribe to the health insurance. There are several different policies offered; mine is one of the more expensive ones. I pay $43.27 per week. If I were one of our young, unmarried guys that don’t need monthly prescriptions and such, I could pay quite a bit less. Alas, I’m a middle-aged female who needs a bit more maintenance than that!
Thanks. Perhaps my problem is that I pay all of my employees at 100%. So the employee gets nothing “back.”
Maybe you should read the op-ed in the NYT and find
out what was said about RATIONING healthcare.It starts
with “Maybe we need death panels.” Oh…that was written
by one who was in the Obama admin. So much for your liberal
minded pals. Sure sounds like it isn’t the repubs who want to kill
granny.
Yeah, you mean that opinion piece that says Obama’s plan is better than Ryan’s:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html
“To Mr. Obama’s credit, his plan has more teeth than Mr. Ryan’s”
Did you read the article fully or just try to trick people here by distorting it?
Sure did read it and the very first sentance was uttered
by the car czar under Obama. Funny how rationing
and death panels were scoffed at by the liberals as
scare tactics, I guess now there is no reason to lie about
it anymore.
Why don’t you read the article in yesterday’s BDN about the massive increase in knee replacements.Quote:”I didn’t worry about the cost…”Considering how expensive these are and that the rehab is often longer than a year,what’s THAT costing us?And Granny’s not dead.
Yep…granny isn’t dead NOW but under
Obamacare….she will be. At least NOW
she can get the operation soon she won’t,
just give her a pill. Heck…even Obama TOLD
us that is how it would work.
Why do you insist on making every societal problem a ‘Republican’ problem? Did Republican ideology get Greece and Spain into the problems that they’re now fighting with EU-mandated austerity programs too? I don’t think so.
Welfare is not a career choice. Although some truly need to be helped by society. Others have learned to play the system and need to be removed
Absolutely agree…..
Unfortunately, these new changes harm those who do truly need the help.
The cost of getting a few of the lazy, irresponsible moochers off the government teat means that many people who genuinely need assistance are going to be thrown out into the cold.
Precisely why welfare fraud needs to be eliminated. It can be done very easily: Defrauding the system should result in permanent ineligibility. A zero tolerance approach would eliminate the welfare system’s most costly drain. The cost of fraud deprives those truly in need.
Get-R_Done!!!!!
Shifting the burden is what the GOP is all about.
Did they really think these people would go away? Or find all the non existent jobs there are out there for them…….
and Dems want nothing more than to have voters at the taxpayers teat, completely and forever dependably voting Dem.
You folks really do need to come up with some fresh catch words and phrases….
Need nothing new as the truth is constant. Despite the trillions poured into anti-poverty programs poverty has stayed at the same levels. Open your eyes and see what the Dems are doing to the poor just to stay in power.
I agree. The poor should just go die.
As I asked Sprucie: Loosen up the tinfoil
Please pass that one along to Sprucie…
There is absolutlely NO shifting the burden in this. Your view of the GOP is totally clouded by liberal ignorance. read the article one more time/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/us/middle-class-areas-shrink-as-income-gap-grows-report-finds.html
“Much of the shift is the result of changing income
structure in the United States. Part of the country’s middle class has slipped
to the lower rungs of the income ladder as manufacturing and other middle-class
jobs have dwindled, while the wealthy receive a bigger portion of the income
pie. Put simply, there are fewer people in the middle.”
Clouded – you mean like Bush starting a War with no approved funding and the massive debt he left the country and all the money Cheney made from his relationship to Halliburton still to this date. Remember Clouded memory?
Of course, we can be assured that the MHPC is monitoring and will continue to do so the affect of the 5 years cut off, right? And that they will seek and provide assistance to those needy who continue to require aid, right? And they have a bridge or swamp to sell us too, right?
I think the idea is that if there are those on this program for 60 months, that if there is a true need for additional time, they should choose another program like disability, etc…
I can’t stand the Governor when he runs his mouth for no real benefit to him or the public. However, cleaning up State programs like this one give me some hope that he’ll eventually learn how to improve our state for all citizens without offending many of us with his unnecessary outbursts. Personally- I really think there are some folks out there that could get along on their own in far less than 60 months. I’m not sure that one time frame is correct for all people that need help from government. It will not be a great coincidence that some of these people will happen to get lucky and find productive work just as their benefits run out.
It sure help his Daughter and his other relative get jobs with no skill, remember?
To bad the people working won’t get the money back in their pockets
like we should be
LePage you do things backwards as usual. Bring the jobs make Maine open for business. You don’t make cuts when there are no jobs. Crime will go way up. This is not a good way to run the state of Maine.
negativity accomplishes nothing.
It elected the majority in the US House of Representatives:)
Since Maine opted out in 1996 / “until last year, when Gov. Paul LePage included the eligibility cap in his biennial budget.” When does the clock tick?
Pretty sure it’s from the original application date. Some people go on and off the program over the years too.
Here we have the republican solution to sending our jobs overseas for more profit. Cut social assistance to those that most need it when they need it the most. The GOP is turning America into a feudal state. They want us to work for nothing, then hurry up and die when we become a burden upon their ability to maximize profit. No, I’m not against making a profit. I’m against unlimited greed that is driven to the point where the economic system ceases to be symbiotic.
You have $1000 and are given 2 options.
Option 1-invest overseas and at the end of
1 year you will be guaranteed $10K profit….
or,
Option 2-Invest it in the US and you will receive
$1 at the end of a year AND you will be taxed on the
$1.
You would have that 1000 overseas before you could
blink. And don’t tell anyone you weren’t greedy.
Demaroids again…
What an insightful comment. You are a way cutting edge thinker who adds insight and compassion to any discussion. Your spouse, if you are married, is sooo lucky to have such a thinker as a mate.
and your just a demaroid…
And you are one of the reasons the republican right will go down in defeat this november. Thank you for helping the democratic cause. (Hey, btw, it ‘you’re’, not ‘your’. Why are you tea party types so uneducated?)
Maybe it should read the Democrat side not the democratic cause.
Maybe.
Best news I’ve read all day! I’d go one better. If after five years of TANF, EBT, SNAP, LIEheap, WIC ,whatever other scam one cares to mention…if after five years any recipients under age 35 that still can’t find work then we will find you work in the U.S. Army! You can serve your country and learn a skill during your enlistment. How about a National Draft?
Wow.
Apparently, the wingnut definition of a “scam” is “any program that helps prevent poor people from starving or freezing to death.”
Well, no one’s ever accused right wingers of having any human decency, have they?
No one ever accused liberals of having any economic sense either. All the programs are open to scamming.
Actually, liberals have far better economic sense than conservatives.
Case in point: how’s that “trickle down” been workin’ for ya?
I purchased my home cash. Both kids college paid for.
Two cars with no payments
Female wife
Will have a cool mil in the bank for retirement…so trickle down been working out real well.
How about for you?
What a story? I bet Karl Rove helped you.
Actually Koch Bros
Man I wish there were more Cowboys out there such as yourself. Trickle down has worked out for me as well. I did have to leave the State… put in some long hours but made it. Sadly, many fellas in Maine have taken the safe way in life…falling into a “House Husband” role. The drive around with their bumper stickers and complain all day here , but when you get down to brass tacks as they have grown older they regret some of their life choices and want what you and I now have…. so how do they get it? Call us meanies and vote in hacks that will take more from us to give to them.
Tell us all about it when you are in the Rivera Nursing home at 80 with nobody there to vist you!
You don’t get it!
It ain’t trickling down if you siphoned it all away for yourself!
Thats where your greed theory ends,
it ain’t just about you!
“Trickle down” theory is just the little guy getting peed on, as a friend once described it to me.
After five years the safety net becomes a hammock.
I JUST GOT HOME FROM WORK at 2pm, after getting up at 4am to go to work
the welfare next door to me, are just getting up for the day. as usual.
they got the music blasting so loud, i can hear the music from inside my house.
i talked to the police before,they say ‘if i can hear music from inside my house , from another house’,i am in the right to call them and have a disturbance/loud noise report.
the music from the welfare is blaring right now, but i dont want to call police because the welfare have kids, and as much as i like to the welfare adults cited, i dont want the kids to see the police action
So i suffer living with the welfare loafers.
WORKFARE ….get the welfare adults out in the morning doing ‘something’! sweeping streets,sidewalks, tarring roads….get the bums UP in the morning.
Dose that also go for the little old lady to ?
Sometimes they’re the worst ones, listening to all that Eminem and Jayz while knittin’ them socks. :-) And don’t get me started on all the late-night parties–ribbon candy and Taster’s Choice for all.
HAHA!Probably Sanka.Thanks for the chuckle after all the meanness above.
Well at least they aren’t firing off fire works all morning if they aren’t up.
That loud music is damaging the kid’s hearing. Do them a favor-it won’t be the last time they see police at the door.
They’re not human beings to you. They’re “the welfare.” That says more about you than about them.
well lepage has had hard knocks lately now he is started on a new prodject. hope they knock him hard on this too
Besides paying the bills incured by the previous administration, this is one of the best things to happen to Maine, THANK YOU LEPAGE!
Having a safety net is one thing, making a lifestyle of it is quite another. No one is going to tell me that the fraud is not widespread, I work very close to the system and I see it every day!
You should be reporting this fraud. Otherwise, you are an aider and abetter and as guilty as the fraudsters you know.
I have, I’ll let you guess the type of response that I have gotten from both the state and federal government, (MSHA and HUD for starters) they are not even interested in investigating it.
Could it be that your information is based on speculation and is basically built on your prejudism and therefore is not followed up on? I do a lot of work for equal housing and I have heard folks make some erroneous accusations based pretty much on tea party mentality when they, in fact, do not have a a clue, to put it kindly. I can’t respond to them because it is none of their business. They think they are right but they are basically out in left field and are minding other folks’ business. They basically are venting about poor folks. Could that be why you are not getting anywhere with your complaints?
No, my information was based on facts and nothing but facts, to suggest that I am prejudice against the poor is quite a speculation for you to have about me. I’ve been poor before, I didn’t like it so I did something about it. Nor am I a member of the tea party. Just because a middle class person like myself is tired of being taxed to the brink while watching freeloaders get by on my tax dollars does not make me a radical tea party member.
And before anyone demonizes me, I have tried to help people on the system to get a job, haven’t had any takers yet.
Obama also happily sends jobs to other countries. He gave the contract for the presidental helicopter to France. His two tour busses were made in Canada. GM now has parts made in China & the cars assembled in Mexico & Canada. Obama gives millions to companies that donated heavily to his campaign, like Solyndra & others, who then go bankrupt & can’t explain where the money went. All his decisions have done is create more debt for our children & their children. If this is what he touts as creating jobs for America, I certainly don’t want more of it.
cant lump it all together like that,there is plenty of blame to go around.all american car companies have parts made in canada,mexico,japan,china,tiawan,to name a few and have for years. Obama is not much different from any other big time politician but lets spread the blame around. btw, true textiles in guilford built a mill in china to supply its asian market long before obama came along and Buffet sent dexter shoe to peurto rico effectively killing the economy in and around dexter a long time ago.This has been building and building for years…….
By the looks of Lepage us the taxpayers are feeding him well.
stock photo mama bear
A lady I know got a notice in november that her welfare would be cut of in march after the state had paid for a four year degree so she moved to Florida is now on welfare there, its not that she could not find a job she just did not want one.
That is sad and speaks to a value system that is corrupted. Unfortunately, in some families there have been several generations on welfare, and no one working for several generations. And before people get up in arms about what I am saying, I am a liberal. But I believe in a hand up rather than a hand out, and that people should be at least as invested in their own lives as their social workers are.
Clinton put the 60 month cap. I thought he was a democrat. Where are the liberals screaming that Lepage is a penguin?
Democrat does not equal liberal
There’s a difference between sending jobs to China and buying things made in China, right?
Or does no Republican shop at Walmart?
I’m a democrat and never ever shop wal-mart. They help compaines relocate overseas, thus taking away jobs from the people they want to shop there..
I know someone who was on TANF for quite a few years. They decided to go back to work, so got a fairly good job- and worked at it a few years. Ended up financially in about the same shape- extra cash in their pocket but loss of rent aid and food stamps etc. So – this person quit the job- went back on TANF. Is on it today. And you say- I should report this? Why? It wont do any good- I’ll lose a friend and the complaint would go no-where. This is a career welfare person- heck of a nice person- but learned that it’s just a better way. I couldn’t do it, but alot can. There is no solution to this.
To me it would make more sense for welfare to just pay the difference for working folks who have transitioned from welfare to work, rather than have them leave their jobs and go back to full benefits. At least then they would be working for what they get. They would probably feel better about themselves, and I know that at least some taxpayers would feel better because they would be doing something to help themselves.
Or how about a minimum wage that is a living wage? That would do it.
I would have said that, but the problem is that so many employers are against that and in fact often suggest a sub-minimum wage to encourage them to hire.
what is liveable?
Stop all foriegn aid until we catch up on our own bills
Stop corporate welfare!
Durning the Angus King years the federal government paid by the head for foster kids and the practice of removing children from their home was on..
This dose nothing to make jobs.
60 month time limit is more than enough…..by then you should figure out how to get out of the welfare system…..Too many people are making a living off it……The State should require all welfare recipients to pass a drug test and prove that you are in need of assistance.
Im really surprised I dont see many complaints from the left on this…… Seems maybe they agree but dont want to admitt it and give Mr. LePage some credit for doing something right, I find it hillarious…..
“The best social program is a job.” I don’t remember who said it but it is true. At the same time, there are some people who are considered unemployable because of criminal history, lack of education, and/or lack of experience. Those are real barriers for some people coming off of TANF. If those barriers can be addressed, then they too can work like the rest of the people who have jobs.
Michael Barnacle of the Boston Globe way way back in the 1970’s
I consider myself a fiscal conservative. Of course I’m not conservative enough for today’s Republicans (My Republicans were Frank Sargent, Everett Dirksen, Norris Cotton, Tom Kean among others.) But I’m far too conservative for the Democrats, so what do I do.. I stand in the middle.
While I am delighted that the welfare issue is getting press, I am less delighted that children in Maine will go hungry. Hungry children are bad for the community. They can not concentrate on their school work, they tend to roam unsupervised, and they wind up costing the State additional money for rehabilitation. Like the old Purelator oil salesman said; “Pay me now, or pay me more later.”
I’m not the Governor, but If I were, I would set up a fall-back government jobs program that would hire people for minimum wage if they were unable to find work elsewhere, then little by little I would wind down the General Assistance program.
Dependence is not caused by a welfare check alone. It also entails folks telling people coming in for aid that; “yeah the economy stinks” “Jobs are hard to get” The factories are all moving to China.” and “We understand you are just sub-par, and no one wants you.”
There’s an excuse for every action or inaction.
There’s lots of stuff to do here in Maine. Elderly people might need a companion to read to them or take them shopping. Children need to be watched and cared for while their parents work. Garbage needs to be removed from the side of the road. Town halls need to be painted. Schools might need playground monitors. Snow might be shovled for disabled veterans. Animal shelters and libraries might benefit from extra hands. There is much more in the way of possibilities, and it wouldn’t cost us as much as keeping generations of families on welfare.
It is all well and good to get people away from dependence, but they need a reasonable path to travel. It is hard to get work if your family has been getting a government check for three or four generations.
If you really want to end welfare this is the path. Being unreasonably tough won’t work past LePages term, then we will be back where we were before.
Yes, we need to help the needy. However, we cannot help them to the fiscal detriment of all and beyond that point at which we need to teach them to fish. President Clinton wisely defined that as 60 months and Maine is wise to adopt that prudent, responsible measure.
Sure! Now if only the economy would adopt the prudent and responsible practice of not staying in the tank for longer than that, and we’ll be in good shape.
Teach ’em to fish? Can’t even have them fish from the ocean without a license – government is both the problem and the solution it seems…
http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/08/05/health/only-10000-mainers-see-rebates-as-obamacare-provision-takes-effect/
“But while those on private insurance plans in many other states are
starting to receive those checks or credits toward their insurance
premiums — in some cases as much as $500 — most people on privately
funded plans in Maine will see nothing.
This is particularly true for Mainers who purchase their own
insurance policies and do not belong to a large group plan. Part of the
reason for that is, in 2011, the state requested and was granted waivers
that allowed companies selling insurance in Maine to spend more on
administration than was allowed under the ACA.
just stop all the invasions of foreign countries…and it will free up billions…stop free trade..will make millions…get rid of corrupted federal reserve..and restructure our system…its not rocket science…sure we need better guide lines for well fare …but millions homeless and millions jobless…by no fault of their own…need to eat at least…TELL ME IM WRONG……
Well, I’m completely with you on the first part and the last part, but the bits in the middle have a distinct Mutterings of Crazy Bus-Stop Guy flavor to me. When people start talking about getting rid of the Federal Reserve, I feel my skeptical eyebrow going up pretty much involuntarily. I mean, what are you suggesting as an alternative? Bimetallism? The uranium standard? Triangular rubber coins 6,800 miles on a side?
Oh hey, it’s that photo of the governor again. It really does need to be done as a triumphal statue in the middle of a traffic circle someplace.
“Our concern is that only 20 percent of [affected] families have gotten extensions,” said Chris Hastedt of Maine Equal Justice Partners, an anti-poverty organization that provides support and information to low-income Mainers. “We wonder where those other families are now.
Hello, maybe they went to work as they couldn’t work the system any longer! Most people can find jobs if they want to work.
SIGN OUTSIDE AN ANIMAL PRESERVE: Please don’t feed the animals, they become dependent on your handouts and won’t forage for themselves.
That is a great analogy! I love it…
Under LePage the poor get poorer and the rich get richer OPEN for BUISNESS
ROMNEY / RYAN 2012 !!!!
Hey Shockey, put this in the net, Romney, ryan two losers who no one will remember in one month.
..
some people are “unemployable” out of sheer laziness…
Lepage has his best gestapo photo up for this article. This turkey is cooked come November.
First and foremost, STOP planning or just having a family when you can’t support YOURSELF. You are not entitled to have children and have someone else pay for them. The rest of the working stiffs have to plan to have children and continue to pay their way. Having children for money should be ILLEGAL, like Prostitution. But it isn’t, It’s highly lucritive as an income. Having more children in that 60 months window SHOULDN”T be a reason for an extention or a new criteria for qualifying. I think many people never got jobs in the first place, and many are third and fourth generation welfare. There ARE jobs out there, but no one can afford to live on minimum wage and pay other expenses.
there are more and more children being labeled as having a “disability” when in reality their “disability” may be more of an excuse so these kids are essentially sucking off the system. They continue to stay on the system in perpetuity
Greed creates poverty.
Which is why poverty in the United States is luxury in Somali? Get a grip. ENVY creates the concept of poverty.
Five years IS sufficient time to find something to do to support yourself and any offspring you may have.
There are no people starving to death in Maine. School age kids get two free meals a day at school. Surely anyone with two legs and two feet can find enough work to put one meal a day on the table.
I am neither a tea partier or a right winger but I am all in favor of limitations on how much and for how long we provide assistance.
If one does not have a high school diploma then he/she can get to work and earn the GED. Plant a garden – even in the city there are plots available for folks willing to till, plant, weed and gather the food. Learn to freeze and can food. Buy veggies when they are on sale and freeze or can them. Get a fishing and hunting license and gather your own food.
Come on folks – get a life, take responsibility for yourself and your offspring.
A baby shouldn’t lack paternal support, right? A man should step up to the plate if he decide to have sex, a baby results, and the woman decides to keep it. Shouldn’t he?
Your argument: jobs that keep you off welfare are always available, so anyone who doesn’t have one is bad
Counterargument: Such good-paying jobs are not available, and many hard-working people still can’t make ends meet–because the system is corrupt at the top.
If a man sleeps with a woman, and she gets pregnant and wants to keep the child, he should step up to the plate and pay his equal share and do an equal amount of child-raising. That’s equality.
The state I came from had partnerships with local businesses to train people for entry level jobs, such as supermarket cashiers. But the problem was that employment was part time and transportation issues were unresolved for many. The best solution to this mess is for young people to understand what life will be like if they drop out of high school and never learn a marketable skill. Once those kids start coming, you are in a rut.
Then why is the unemployment rate among vets HIGHER than the general public?Shameful.
You have never spoken truer words.It doesn’t help that half the kids are jacked up on Ritalin at age 7 but yet a stick and two seeds will ruin their future prospects.We also need to get rid of SS mental disability BS.That program was designed for WORKING people whose bodies wore out after years of physical work.Plenty of Mainers are in that boat.
In the 90s WM put in a big Buy American program.Flags,banners,the whole bit.It was a complete and utter failure.Everything was in the trash within three months.
It’ll get toppled just like Saddam.
—
It is because socialistic countries emphasize the importance of caring for others. It is such a friggin basic concept that so many don’t grasp! I am considerably wealthier than the average citizen and am more than willing to contribute to public education (no kids) and universal health care (very healthy). Socialism is alive and well and it is not a bad thing, but we cannot tolerate frauds; people who are not disabled and milk the system.
1. The article puts an interesting spin on the time limits — implying that the time limits have not been in effect in Maine since their inception, when in fact, the time limits have been in use for well over TEN years! 2. The exemptions and exceptions the article mentions MIGHT be the ones kicked off are the ones who ABSOLUTELY WILL BE. Single parents of children with disabilities. Mothers who have been/their children have been abused. Mothers who have children with behavioral problems or other special needs; parents who have limited work skills and limited resources to assist them. Our community will have to assist these families or they WILL BECOME homeless. Why not report the real facts? They are certainly worthy of a news story.
There is a difference between a hand up and a hand out. After 5 years help yourself……
I have to go to work everyday, so does myhusband, we pick up extra shifts just to make it. They should try a little hard work instead on just putting their hands out….
Thank you maam for telling it like it is.
For all said here, that, none have mentioned the cost, the cost to live, the cost to work, and it will be determined sooner or later, the United States has created a situation, that, will require something similar to the DOLE, only a US version, if families are to work and not starve.
My sister is perfectly happy sitting in her housing authority unit and living off of food stamps, all for doing zero for herself or anyone throughout her 50 years of life, although she had multiple opportunities to go to college or trade school. And yes, she is a lazy and fat democrat.
Wow…. what a fantastic, loving and empathetic ‘brother’ you are…….
The government is looking for ways to put more into their pockets.. plane and simple
Well done Governor LePage. You said you would and you did.
Thank you.
It’s a start Paul, but you need to keep cutting until the convenience stores start howling about their shrinking beer and lottery ticket sales — then cut some more.