PORTLAND, Maine — At the end of the year, Fort Fairfield resident Hans Bruns will be eligible to regain the MaineCare benefits he lost last October.
He could be dead by then.
Bruns, 65, was diagnosed earlier this year with adenoid cystic carcinoma, a rare form of cancer. He needs radiation and chemotherapy. He needs medication to numb the pain that he says makes even simple tasks like eating meals excruciating. He needs health care.
But for that last six months, Bruns has been able to access only emergency care. He, along with as many as 500 others, received a letter from Maine’s Department of Health and Human Services last fall explaining that he no longer was eligible for subsidized health insurance.
“Your coverage is being reduced because state law has changed,” the letter to Bruns reads. “This decision is based on MaineCare Eligibility Manual, Part 2, Section 3. This rule explains that some legal immigrants will only get MaineCare emergency benefits.”
That law change was part of the state’s biennial budget that passed in June 2011 and is one part of Gov. Paul LePage’s administration’s effort to reduce the number of people collecting MaineCare benefits.
Bruns is not a U.S. citizen. He’s a German citizen. But he is a permanent resident of the United States and has been since December 2007.
Because of his immigration status, Bruns is considered a “qualified alien” and, as of October 2011, all qualified aliens must wait five years before they are eligible for full MaineCare under last year’s state change.
But Bruns needs the care now.
“I consider myself to be strong and to be able to bear a lot of pain,” Bruns wrote in a court affidavit. “But on a scale of 1 to 10, my pain level is right now a 23. The pain is unbearable and I feel as though a knife is cutting my neck and a hammer is constantly beating my head when I walk.”
That affidavit is the centerpiece of a civil lawsuit filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Bangor against Department of Health and Human Services Commissioner Mary Mayhew.
Maine Equal Justice Partners and the American Civil Liberties Union of Maine filed the suit on Bruns’ behalf, claiming that eliminating his benefits violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution.
“Without proper treatment, Hans faces a terrifying and painful fight for his life with a very poor prognosis for survival,” said Robyn Merrill, a policy analyst and attorney for Maine Equal Justice Partners. “We are asking the court to restore Hans’ health insurance coverage so he can get the full range of treatment that could result in better health outcomes and ease his suffering.”
The groups hope the suit turns into a class action as more plaintiffs sign on.
DHHS spokesman John Martins said the department typically does not comment on open court cases. He did say that the decision to alter eligibility requirements was difficult but it has resulted in $1.3 million in savings in 2012 and $2.6 million in 2013 to a MaineCare program that is over budget.
Martins also said that the recent law change brings Maine in line with federal law on whether to provide subsidized health care to legal noncitizens who have been in the country for fewer than five years.
Statistics from the Kaiser Family Foundation show that 21 states provide some coverage to legal noncitizens but only 15 offer state-funded services.
Bruns ended up in Maine in 2009 after he and his wife, a U.S. citizen, separated. Seeking a cooler climate, he traveled north from Texas and landed in Aroostook County. He wanted to settle in New Brunswick across the Canadian border but didn’t have a visa.
He became eligible for MaineCare in 2010 after he was deemed physically disabled. But it wasn’t until more recently that he became really sick.
Dr. Danielle N. Margalit, a physician in the Department of Radiation Oncology, Head and Neck Oncology Program, at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, diagnosed Bruns with cancer in February.
She wrote in an affidavit filed with the lawsuit that the adenoid cystic carcinoma has created a large tumor in Bruns’ neck. He also has an apparent lesion in his lung, which might be a distant metastases of the cancer.
Bruns has been getting treatment in Presque Isle, but it’s considered charity care. He is not eligible for cost reimbursement for travel from his home to Presque Isle for treatment and his prescriptions are not covered. Without significant treatment, Bruns could die within six to 12 months, Margalit wrote.
“I have to keep begging for [care] and never know if it will be there,” Bruns wrote. “I’m told that this is a somewhat rare form of cancer and that there is a good chance that I might die from it in a short time. I’m told that I need chemotherapy, radiation and maybe surgery. I need a lot of pain medication. But now, when I need MaineCare the most, it is not there to help me.”
Cost of the charity care that Bruns is receiving is shifted onto private health insurance premiums. The same could be said of hundreds of other Mainers who lost benefits last October.
Jeffrey Austin, a lobbyist for the Maine Hospital Association, said anytime someone loses benefits, either in the private sector or through MaineCare, it puts a greater burden on providers.
But Austin also acknowledged that lawmakers have no good choices when it comes to addressing problems within the system.
Rep. Meredith Strang-Burgess, R-Cumberland, House chairwoman of the Health and Human Services Committee, said she remembers the discussion about this line item in last year’s budget.
She said initially the number of noncitizen MaineCare recipients who stood to lose benefits was going to be much higher. Once the committee was done working with the department, the number of people affected was about 500.
“I know every single one is a person with a story,” Strang-Burgess said. “Our thought was that it’s a small enough number, maybe other services will pick up their care.”
In some cases, that has happened. In others, like Bruns’, it hasn’t.
Strang-Burgess said there is an argument to be made that it costs taxpayers more to kick people off MaineCare but she also recognized the need to get MaineCare’s eligibility rolls to a manageable number.
Jennifer Archer, an attorney with Kelly, Remmel & Zimmerman, will take the lead in Bruns’ case and is working pro bono.
“Hans and many others have been improperly, and without sufficient justification, singled out and denied health insurance coverage that provides medically necessary treatment,” she said in a statement Thursday. “Hans’ life hangs in the balance today, but we know that there are hundreds of other Maine residents who also are being wrongly denied necessary medical care.
“We are asking the court to find that current law violates the Constitution and order the Department of Health and Human Services to restore health insurance coverage for Hans and other, similarly situated individuals.”
Follow BDN writer Eric Russell on Twitter at @BDNPolitics.
Maybe Strang-Burgess should look into the part time employees with full health care benefits that infest the state house (i.e. legislators). Seems that would be a likely place to do some cutting.
Ok, have I got this right? He moved here, to Maine from else where, and was sick. He worked his way through the system and within a year was declared disabled and dependent. And now is suing to get free lifetime Maine-care . Ok, I think I’m up to speed, carry on.
He’s dying. He hasn’t received MaineCare for quite sometime, he will probably die before he is eligible to receive MaineCare again.
It doesn’t sound like he’s having a good life at all.
This is one of the many LePew wants to kick down the road. I don’t care if he came from Mars.
He is a human being and he is sick and he needs help. Is LePew’s “new Maine” a Maine that kicks someone when they’re down? Is this new Maine completely callous to human life?
Ha! “LePew”! What a clever play on the Governor’s name!
I think sitting behind the screen makes people a bit bolder and gives them a false sense of power they don’t have in real life to say the nastiest things.
Normally I would agree with your comment 99% of the time. Unfortunately Mainegal (my Mom)…..Acctually I have to change that to FORTUNATELY, as I do and have always respected her boldness for standing up for what she believes. Fortunately Mainegal is not hiding behind a screen, she would certainly speak like that to you in a crowded room. In fact she would probably raise her voice in order to dispel anyones doubt of her opinion.
I wish she could do without the name calling, but whats a lefty to do?
Her and my ways of thinking often clash, but I do have to defend her ability to stand up and speak out.
I think defending your mom is commendable and a wonderful thing to do. I respect that.
The post I made was not made in reference to mainegal. She was not the poster I had in mind when I made that post. It wasn’t aimed at her and I am sorry if it sounded that way.
I was referring to the many who were saying some rather horrible things about the man this story is about. The nastiness here became fast and furious for a while when this story came out with many posts being made all at once.
I apologize for the misunderstanding and again it wasn’t in reference to mainegal.
Pensionerade, I knew full well which post you were referring to, so apology not necessary. I have said many times and will continue to say this: reading comprehension is not their strong suit.
No, it appears it isn’t. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out and how residents of Maine will be affected as they are thrown off MaineCare. I wonder how many more lawsuits will come. That sounds like it could cost much more in the long run.
Callous is a good word describing this situation.
Yes, he is a human and yes, he is sick. But, without sounding like a cold-hearted witch, he is not a citizen of Maine let alone a citizen of the US. We have plenty of people that are citizens and that need care as well… We have to draw the line some place. And it is not about kicking some one when they are down, it is about taking care of our own, and technically he is not one of our own.
Okay, so let’s imagine he shows up on your doorstep, sick and dying. Are you saying you would not show some compassion by helping him, simply because he isn’t “one of us?” Because if you are, then I hope I NEVER become one of “your kind of Mainer or American.”
Here’s an idea: Google the “Statue of Liberty” and read what is inscribed on its base. I’ll bet your great grandparents were happy to read that and feel so welcome.
Here, I’ll save you the trouble:
“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Emma Lazarus
He is saying if the man is staving he would soon toss his extra food in the trash than give it to him.
So, by all means , lets take them all in. I’m sure the few folks actually paying income taxes can handle a few(million) more.
Make the rich pay their share and the problems would be few!
Pay their share? Unbelievable. We could confiscate everything the “rich” make,100% tax ,and we still would be screwed. So is that really your answer?
The Gov’t would find a way to spend every bit of the increased revenue, in your scenario…
Yearning to breathe free? Considering the shift in the governments of Europe over the last century and a half from monarchies to republics I don’t believe this is a case of an oppressed person seeking freedom. It is a nice poem and I do like the statue :-) but the idea is to come to a land of possibility and freedom. Not show up and say please take care of me. All the large hearted people should get together and donate their money. Over and over again. Problem solved.
There have been numerous times that I have had people in need show up on my proverbial “doorstep” that have needed my help (in one way or another). They have received said help in whatever way 1)they need it and/or 2)I have been able to give it… whether that was in the form of cash, food, clothes, etc… If he were to show up on my step, I would not slam the door in his face and I would show him compassion and help him. I am not, despite what you may think, that cold-hearted.
By the sounds of it, he has been fortunate thus far to be getting the help he needs from caring individuals since he has not had the government to rely on. I feel bad for him and his situation, I really do, but I stand by my original post that it is not the job of the state of Maine to take care of him; there has got to be a better way! These type of Mainecare “allowances” is one of the reasons we are in such a deficit to begin with. So, let’s go back to the drawing board and see what else we can do….Please do not quote the Statue of Liberty or give me a civics/history lesson; I am well aware of the history of this country and where we stand on helping and/or taking in those that need our help.
Agreed. give give give and then give some more. how much is enough? I’m also sick of paying for these women that treat their vagina’s like clown cars. baby after baby after baby. the sperm donors also need to be held accountable.
I don’t need the history/civics lessons either.
My great grandparents never expected the US Government to care for them, nor did the Government offer. If you didn’t have a sponsor and a job BEFORE you came, you didn’t get in. I know this because I knew them!
Guess the point got lost somewhere. America has always been known as a country that helped the poor and the downtrodden, hasn’t it? And now, after all these years, comes a toxic group of the Me First crowd. Can’t just one of you examine your own lives and recall a time when you needed help, and someone was there to answer your call? Can’t just one of you pass that on?
No. It has been a land of opportunity to come here, work hard, and create a better life. American Dream. People are being corrupted by a welfare program that teaches them to sit back, accept a minimal existance, and vote for Democrats next election. President Obama summed it up when he said in a speech “we are going to punish our enemies and reward our friends”. We are going to punish people who believe the government needs to shrink and get out of our pockets by taking their stuff forcefully and giving it to you. Just vote for us Democrats. This isn’t about me first. This is about us first. When enough people by into his vision and accept mediocrity to be “fair” the American Dream is done. If you want to help future immigrants come here and improve our lives, we need to get the federal government back down to size.
Your not going to become a legal resident of this country unless someone that is a US citizen pledges your complete and total financial support for the first ten years of your residence. I know this as my wife is a legal resident and I had to sign that form, its called I-290. Someone had to sign it for this man to be here legally. Where is that person and why are they not being held accountable for the affadavit the signed in order to sponsor his immigration petition? That affadavit does not become null upon divorce, only death or the disablement of the signer. Technically, the way I see it, this man should never had qaulified for medicaid to begin with as someone had sworn under oath to provide for his care in every detail.
wwjd would He turn him away because he wasn’t one of his own?
He certainly would not! And I think you already knew the answer to that question before you asked it. Consider the parable of the Good Samaritan. In that parable (the condensed version…), it is one man helping and paying for the care of another injured man…. it is not a parable of the one man taking the injured man to the local government and saying “Hey, I found this man and he is sick. I am going to leave him here so you all can care for him for the rest of his life.”
Well now, isn’t that a nice spin to put on it? The lengths some thumpers will go to in order to justify their selfishness is astounding.
Mainegal – I think this is where I bid you a’dieu – obviously we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one…. I stand by my original points, and I am sure you will do the same. Hope you have a wonderful weekend and we are both able to go out and do some good in this world whatever that may be! Tootles all!
Great plan,Sara. Farewell.
True. “Whatever you do for the least of me…”
You failed. You do sound like what you didn’t want to sound like. Sorry. Look beyond and under the lines. You may discover some humanity.
Agreed. It is sickening to read these callous statements.
just said something i was blocked i called lepage A–h–le
And of course people from Maine never ever move to other states and then fall ill and receive state sponsored care … never ever. *rolling eyes*
If those people from Maine are US citizens and move to Florida then of course they would qaulify for the US program that is Medicaid. However if that Maine citizen moved to Germany and tried to get on their healthcare system I wonder how successful they would be? Lets compare apples to apples.
You want to compare the US to Germany??
I think maybe we should. In Germany, they have universal health care. This gentleman would be cared for, whether he could work or not, and whether or not wastes of human skin whined about their tax dollars being wasted to try to heal or at least provide palliative care for a fellow human being. I swear, some of the responses on this board make me absolutely ashamed that I share more than a couple of genes in the same genome with these guys.
then he should go back to Germany. The USA can NOT afford to give give give any longer!
oh but the USA can afford! It’s the greed at the top and within companies that are sucking the life out of the government. The 1%. Stop the corruption and all would be fine for everyone.
the people we have in government here are the biggest theives, so the government is the wrong place to look for any help.our politicians would steal the gold from your teeth without blinking.they are just awful people
that is a ridiculous comment.. you read too many papers and listen to too many liberals.. it’s a talking point that makes no sense at all…. the gov’t sucks the life out of it self with help from folks like you that continue to vote for the big spenders that never met a benefit they didn’t like or a tax they could turn down… it is not now nor ever has been about private companies.. the gov’t is too big and too irresponsible.. it is no longer a constitutional enity and it is the fault of the voters.. and you have bought into the whole thing lock stock and barrel…….. no wonder we are in a mess
“you read too many papers and listen to too many liberals”….as opposed to listening to outright lies and misinformation spread by people and organizations, like Rush Limbaugh or Faux News?
You’re right. We cannot afford it. Between tax cuts for the wealthy, fighting unnecessary wars, and an F-35 program that will cost $1.5 TRILLION , we cannot afford free health care for our citizens and our guests. PATHETIC!
A plane ticket would be cheaper, that’s for sure…
Germany has an excellent health care system that costs less than ours; a global network of charitable organizations; and this person is still a German National…so why isn’t he being treated in Germany?
In reverse, suppose he was an American citizen living in Germany as a documented alien. Would they provide his treatment, etc.? …um, where’s that reporter again?
Yes, they would. Most countries with a National Healthcare system do not differentiate between citizen’s and guests.
I know this for a fact because when I lived in England I used their hospitals for injuries, illnesses and emergencies and was treated just like an English citizen.
You’re wrong. To get into these countries you have to show proof of health insurance that meets their criteria. Germany requires 8 years to be eligible.
If you want to stay more than 90 days in most EU countries you must apply for a Shengen Visa which requires a person to prove they are covered by insurance for the amount of at least 30000 euros. England is one of those countires.
I know an American who was traveling in Italy, he fell and went to a hospital. all medical bill paid for in full by Italy
Actually it varies by country. In some countries you’re covered the minute you set foot on the ground, in others you’re not.
But you miss the relevant point of the comparison. It’s not Germany’s system for its citizens compared to ours that is the issue. So tell me, would Germany provide free health care and benefits for a Maine citizen that moved there while already sick and disabled?
Please read the article before posting.
The gentleman moved to Maine in 2007 and was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year. He was deemed to be eligible for MaineCare in 2010 when he became disabled.
You must not have so I’ll highlight it for you.
“Bruns ended up in Maine in 2009 after he and his wife, a U.S.
citizen, separated. Seeking a cooler climate, he traveled north from
Texas and landed in Aroostook County. He wanted to settle in New
Brunswick across the Canadian border but didn’t have a visa.
He became eligible for MaineCare in 2010 after he was deemed
physically disabled. But it wasn’t until more recently that he became
really sick.”
He came here in and stayed in 2009 after Canada rejected him. He was declared disabled one year later, about the average time to have that claim reviewed and approved. Consequently, he was SICK WHEN HE ARRIVED HERE or there would be no disability.
You’re right he moved to Maine in 2009 but he is a permanent resident of the United States and has been since December 2007. He moved to a cooler climate, he did try Canada first but lacked the necessary Visa and instead moved to Maine.
This would be no different than if a native Texan moved to Maine to get to a cooler climate.
yes, it is different. A Texan can’t go to Germany for free medical care & a Texan is a US citizen.
A Texan who is a legal immigrant, like the gentleman in this story, can and would receive free medical care in Germany. If he is just visiting and suffered a medical emergency he would receive the same excellent care any German would receive for the same cost as any German citizen.
So let’s compare them. In Germany there are two separate types of health insurance: public health insurance and private insurance.
About 87.5% are members of the public system, while 12.5% are covered by private insurance.
You have to make a certain income to opt out of the public system and get private insurance. So the wealthy are getting better insurance, better benefits, because they can afford it.
Germany used to have a law regarding their health care and I’ve yet to find if they have rescinded that law but it used to be you had to live there 5 years there before you could take advantage of their public health insurance. Sound familiar?
We’re dealing with a life – not a packaged commodity. Not something you pick up in a warehouse. A life – a human in need. I believe even the Germans, the Brits and the French would shove aside their rules to help someone who is suffering like this man. Help. How can fellow human beings not heed the cry of the sick and wounded?
because we are all so sick of our tax dollars going down the drain
One thing that has not been mentioned here is the fact that in order to become a Legal Resident, the recipient of the immigration petition needs to be sponsored financially by someone, most often the American Citizen Spouse who filed the petition. That petition is a I-290 and the signer pledges under penaly of federal law to suppport the legal resident financially 1o0% for a period of ten years. The only way that support ends is if the signer of the form dies or is rendered disabled themselves.
That being said, it appears that his US Citizen wife would be responsible for his financial well being and support. According to federal law, he should not even be on a medicare program as it would be illegal for him to be on it. Unless of course, his wife is disabled. Divorce, does not nulify the support obligations.
we are talking about MaineCare or Medicaid, not medicare. There are many, many people who have sponsors who shows up at DHHS ASAP to get as many benefits as possible.
That would be the problem we are talking about, the one some of us are trying to fix. The point is this fella’s status means he should not be in this situation, that he should be cared for in this situation by his wife/ex wife.
In this post I used Medicare when I meant to use Medicaid. I am aware that one is a insurance program for older people over a certain age while one is insurance for people who meet certain poverty standards. Thank you though for making my mistake known. I wont make that mistake again.
I dont understand how these people can get assistance when someone has pledged under penalty of law to support them.
So the wealthy are getting better insurance, better benefits, because they can afford it. sounds like to USA doesn’t it?
Americans and other nationalities, would not be denied treatment in England, France, or, Germany.
This poor man’s story should be the main topic of discussion before the Legislature. It’s enough to make anyone with a conscience, cringe. Meanwhile, emergency measures should be taken to help ease this man’s suffering. Dirigo – let’s lead.
Prove it. Please prove to me that there is a way for an American citizen to go to England, Germany or France and get free healthcare. When I was living in Italy, not only did I have to pay before they’d see me but also bring my own bedding and food. So I really would like to see where you got your info.
I had a relative while in Italy that needed health care. She didn’t pay a dime for the services and they treated her well.
I lived in England for 6 years and the entire time there I was allowed to use their Healthcare system just like an English citizen.
By the way I was born in Denver, CO so I am an American citizen.
The Shengen Visa rules didnt apply when you were there it appears.
“Please note that the UK and Ireland are not a part of the
Schengen agreement.”
http://www.theschengenoffice.com/explained/schengen_visa.html
Not sure why you brought up Shengen Visa’s as they only a visa to allow visitors to travel thru one or more Shengen countries as a visitor. This visa has nothing to do with providing healthcare to legal immigrants.
Got it in England and France. No questions asked.
pbmann just below, had similar experiences.
No…Germany is probably more of a democracy than the U.S. is these days…a goverment for the people and by the people. Not for the corporation , by the corporation.
We’re not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. There is a difference.
Thank you.
We may now be a post-constitutional republic…
Good luck getting that one to sink in. Funny thing is, if we were a Democracy, the libs would be the first to have their hind ends handed to them by the Majority.
If we had a Democracy, we wouldn’t have had George W. Bush in office, and the most serious issues facing the country right now would be a shadow of what Bush and his GOP brothers created.
Bush was behind this, AH I knew it! And Cheney and the Halliburton hurricane machine re-tooled to create chaos for foreign freeloaders.
I’m pretty sure there is no discussion of “Heath Care” in our Constitution…
Believe the Preamble – “…promote the general Welfare…” is more than adequate.
When the Preamble was written in 1787, what was the definition of “general welfare?” What was the intent of the founding fathers?
As for this man, instead of carping back and forth at each other and making his need a political issue, why not call a local bank, set up a fund then set up a facebook page to ask for donations to help him? Wouldn’t that be a more productive use of everyone’s time?
sounds good to me. I’m in.
The point is he was covered once and should be grandfathered in.
A few spaghetti suppers aren’t going to take care of his medical needs.
I didn’t suggest a few spaghetti suppers. I suggested people make charitable monetary contributions to a fund set up at a local bank. This is done frequently by Maine people to aid their neighbors in times of need. Please don’t belittle a sincere suggestion on how to help this man in need.
Your “point is” has nothing to do with the definition of general welfare nor the intent of the founding fathers.
“grandfather him in,” I don’t think so
Im thinking a call to the German Embassy in Washington would perhaps be in order as well.
If you follow that line of reasoning then I have to question how we get to citizens being able to own advanced weapons that didn’t exist back then. Or how we can expect privacy for something we broadcast out on the public wires since phones didn’t exist back then.
The point is that society has changed since our forefathers founded this country and to expect everything to operate as it did back then is unreasonable.
More correctly we are a democratically-elected Constitutional Republic like all other Democratic Country, or a Democracy for short. There is no true Democracy, ie. where the citizen’s vote on all issues, in the world.
Yes, its a country that has had to have to presidents resign in the last three years in regards to corruption scandals.
Its also a country that makes its immigrants learn German too.
Look at the post I was responding towards. My point is that if an American Citizen went to Germany and then became sick I dont believe the German Health Care System would be responsible for funding his medical care.
As responsible citizens believing in humanity, I believe they would.
Yes if you were smart enough to know what really happen WW2 was probably as much are fault as the Germans. Caused by oppression of the German people after loosing ww1. people only what to view the world as what looks good to them not wanting to see the whole truth.
Except it was not the US that pushed for the Versaille Treaty and its harshness. Wilson was a bit more tolerant. France and to a lesser extent England and Italy really wanted to give Germany the shaft. You are correct in posting that this started the ball rolling for WW11.
Well the point I was getting at is very few people will see the whole picture. It is all about what makes them feel good about themselves. Thanks a little more enlightenment.
He would be well taken care of.
If he would be so well taken care of, then let him go back to Germany. I’m sorry for his medical condition, but no one made him move to America, and no one is making him stay. It is not right for people to come to this country and expect to be given a hand out. If people want to come to America, to live the American dream, then people need to come expecting to bust their butt to make it, without a free ride!! Some people on here may disagree, and dislike what I am saying, but in my line of work, I see this scenario way too often.
Well Then why do you not go back from where you came from. Unless you are a native american. We came here and sole this county in the first place. Now if he was an illegal I would agree send him back. Hey I did not want to spend a trillion in tax dollars on a war based at the time on WMDs. In the days before the war in Iraq I remember bush telling Sadam to hand over the WMDs or we were going to war . Funny we did not find them then they say the war was not about WMDs. I am no fan of waisting money But it seems to me if we are anyways when not do it to help someone.
more a factor of what system you have paid into while you were working.
I have paid for a lot of things working . A lot I do not agree with. Just saying helping a man seems like a noble cause.
Not only that, but as a society, we are judged by how we treat those who are in need, be it for being poor or for being infirm (aka sick). I tend to believe that there are a lot of us that don’t exactly enjoy how our money is being spent. But I can’t think of a better thing than using some of that money to cure the ill, or to let the terminal have a little dignity in death. I would want that for the ones I love.
That’s funny do you really want to talk about WMD’s , more specifically who also believed they existed? We can hop into the wayback machine and talk to Clinton and his Cabinet, even quotes calling for military intervention, all lib’s too.
Not as simple as that. The false claim that Hussein had WMDs had Bush and Cheney push us into two wars costing trillions. Clinton fired as rocket. It was off target, but we’re not still paying for it.
I can post for you the very very very long list of liberals who called for action on the WMD situation, even Hussein’s ouster through force back to Clintons Presidency . It was not a false claim, we knew he had them at points in the past, because he used them. The belief that he had some left over was the issue.If he destroyed them , had them buried some where or shipped them off to Iran or else where we will never know. But that he had them is beyond questioning, it is fact.
We were mad because we could not find the WMDs we gave him. We supported Sadam when he did most the things we accused him of if you remember the Iran Iraq war. Tell me what a good guy he was then?? We must be almost as evil to have supported him back then.
Sorry. Bush’s personal investigator told Bush there were no WMD. The UN inspectors agreed. Yes, everyone knew that he had them at one time. But after Kuwait, Hussein stopped his WMD program. Had to. He was almost bombed off the map. The facts surrounding an attack on Iraq were false. And yes, all democrats and republicans who voted for it were complete fools. The Brits were suckered into the invasion by a very pushy Bush, backed by Cheney and Rumsfeld. The rest of the countries marched behind like sheep. There was also a question of Hussein ordering large amounts of “Yellow Cake” from Africa to manufacture WMD. When Joe Wilson dug into this, it also proved false. An angry Cheney and Rove retaliated by exposing one of our secret agents – Valerie Plame, who happened to be Joe’s wife.
Lot’s of revisionist history, Monday morning Quarterbacking and opinion in that, Far from what almost everyone “involved’ believed at the time. Just for the record, this mess we speak of was ignited ,at least ramped up ,by the events that took place on 911, I wonder who you think was “behind” that.
As for your last point, it is the one that discredits everything else you post on the subject. Joe was a nut job, claimed is wife sent him on the mision that he discovered the cover up. But some how only realized all of this after talking for months about the dangers of saddam and WMD’s.He ,himself, ran his yap about where his wife worked in an effort to lend credibility to his ever changing story.
I can break it down for you a bit easier.
February 6, 2003: Joe Wilson wrote an editorial for the Los Angeles Times, A ‘Big Cat’ With Nothing to Lose,
in which he claimed we should not attack Saddam Hussein because he will
use his weapons of mass destruction on our troops and give them to
terrorists.(remember he’s an expert on this)
January 28, 2003: President George W. Bush delivered his State of the Union address with the now infamous ” sixteen words”.February 28, 2003: Joe Wilson was interviewed by Bill Moyers. Wilson agreed with Bush’s SOTU remarks and the dangers of Saddam and his WMD’s.
March 3, 2003(4 days later)Republic Or Empire?: At the invitation of David Corn, Joe Wilson wrote a piece for the Nation, In it Wilson blasted the “neo-conservatives” in the Bush
administration for their imperial over-reach. But he once again made no
mention of uranium or any other suggestion that Bush misled the country
or lied about Iraq’s WMD.(story is starting to change)It was on March 8th (10 days after his last interview in which he agrees with Bush on WMD’s) he changed his whole story.
In short, the guy was an attention seeking wack job, who outed his own wife and put folks at risk because he was looking for a job with the Kerry Campainge to get the job he needed to fluff his credentials a bit, no matter that it would be a photo negative of everything he was on record saying up to that point.
P.s he had gotten the job with Kerry the day he started lashing out at Bush.
And please tell me that Tom Andrews and Mike Michaud did not vote in support of that military action. Please tell me that Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Robert Byrd and not one single democrat voted for that military action to take place. Please tell me that every single democrat in congress stood up and voted no.
Before the war May I quote “George Mitchel Saying if we do not find them we better plant them or we will have hell to pay”. This was an off the record take I had with him.
They were all a bunch of mislead fools – democrats and republicans alike.
Kerry, Hillary Clinton, they were all for it. Some people find it convenient to not remember that.
Well I was not. Stupid people fall into the who party thing they are both out to get us. The well to do benefit by people on welfare . Its the middle class that pays for it.
How can one forget it? They were easily led fools.
Perhaps they should have done some due diligence, all of them. Kind of like they should have done some on the health care bill.
This is not a party issue . Both side screw people. I am not a liberal . Just put people on a level playing field. Both side are controlled by big business. Lets take a look at the flat tax Lepage wants .If a guy working for 10 bucks an hour puts half his check into gas just getting to work. He would pay a much higher percentage of his wages in taxed. The well to do hide thier income via 401k 403b or what ever tax deferred . Now I pay taxes A lot goes to fund colleges . most the working poor do not go to college. Sports in Orono spent $9 million more than they took in last year. Why should I have to pay for Jack Cosgrove’s $240k a year salary with benefits . It is totally unneeded for an education. If you study history the ruling class has started most wars.
I have great respect for the Native Americans. However, I was born here and I am a US citizen just as much as they are.
To be given legal resident status, the man would have had to have his immigration sponsor or some other person with interest in his immigration petition to be in the USA legally sign a petition of financial support. That petition is called a form I-290 and the signer pledges to provide 100% of all financial support necessary to maintain the legal resident they sponsored. The period of support is in force for ten years and divorce does not render it void. Only death or the signer themselves becoming disabled does. Who signed the affadavit of support for this man? Were are they? Why are they not financially responsible for him? Technically, it should be impossible for this man to even be eligble for Medicaid.
If you wonder how I know this it is because my wife is a legal resident of the United States and I signed the very form that I am referencing.
I think the well to do are giving a free ride every day . Laws and rules are not made the same for them. If I do dishonest things with my small business I will be singles out and charged. Now most big business do many dishonest things and get away with it.
Completely untrue. Immigrants are eligible for social assistance, in Germany. Try doing some research, before posting an outright lie. Sad, so many people believe it, just because you type it. I guess if someone says it on an internet forum, it must be true!
Immigrants are eligble in the US too, if they meet criteria. What criteria in Germany does an immigrant have to meet? Do they have to meet any? I did not post that they would not provide such services so Im not sure what you mean about lying/
My fault. I guess I misunderstood your comment. From what I read, It seemed as though you were insinuating that an American immigrating to Germany would not receive the same benefits.
I’m not exactly sure about the process, for receiving benefits, in Germany. Most of my knowledge, on the subject, comes from the notes I took during a college course, and the internet. I’m sure there is certain criteria that needs to be met, as with any other social assistance program.
I think the part that is so jarring, to many people, is that this man already had the services of Mainecare, only to have it swiped out from under him. Then he gets told that he will re-qualify in Dec, but just living that long may depend on receiving treatment. As another poster suggested, “It’s about priorities”. I have relatives that have been unfortunate victims of cancer, and I will never accept that we should just let them die, simply because their family can no longer afford their treatment. Cancer does not discriminate, and people can beat it. I’ve seen it! Maybe, if everyone had ever been touched by cancer, this poor man, who fell in love with and married an American, wouldn’t have to beg charities for help fighting for his life. I am just so disgusted by the heartlessness, of some people posting here. And these people can’t even see the fact that the costs, of these cuts, are already spreading to our overburdened charities. Kindness and compassion are not weaknesses.
The German Healthcare system would treat him like any other person in Germany; citizen, legal immigrant or visitor. They would allow him into their healthcare system and treat him like a gErman citizen.
Maine care enrollment has about doubled in the last few years, depending on the study you trip over Maine is first or second in the percentage of residents on welfare ,we spend about 10 million a year on new noncitizens and are 1 of 5 States that allow for benefits on the first day of being in the State. So roll your eyes all you like but the problem we have is real , and expensive.
Think there is any correlation of the rise in enrollment and the worst recession since the 30’s? Or how about low wages and jobs that do not have benefits? Think they have anything to do with it?
Or is it just icky liberals who want everyone to have medical insurance?
Sure, so why not a few more,we might even want to think about busing them in, what the heck. Did I mention how small the percentage is of folks who are actually paying income tax, paying for all of this?
Oh, and those icky Lib’s are a big part of this problem, most of it actually. Confusing want for need and need for entitled. Besides, they are gross.
Back in the early 1990’s, a friend of mine was a long haul trucker. He brought back a pamphlet being handed out to homeless people that listed the top 5 states for welfare benefits. Maine was #2. I think he picked it up in Georgia at a truckstop. I wish I had saved it. Who knew?
Here’s an article from 2002 that describes how Somalis migrated from Georgia to Lewiston to take advantage of the better welfare benefits:
“The Great Somali Welfare Hunt
Many of the early arrivals in the United States settled in Clarkston, next door to Atlanta, but problems quickly developed with local blacks who, the Somalis contend, preyed on them….Moreover, Somalis soon learned that welfare benefits and public housing were more generous and better elsewhere, especially in New England. By February 2001, they had discovered Lewiston, and the influx began…..
Mohammed Maye, the president of the African Community and Refugee Center in Clarkston, has a map of Lewiston on the wall of the wall of his office. “Go to Maine,” he advises Somalis.….Abdullah Abdullahi…tells Somalis that, unlike Georgia, Maine has terribly cold winters, but “the welfare system is better.”
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/article/2002/nov/18/00010/
Maine pays the least in benefits of all the New England states currently. I don’t know about the ’90’s but currently it has the lowest benefits. Vermont has the highest.
And yet Fosters Daily Democrat runs stories like these. It says “Hey single moms with kids… Just move across the river and Mainers will take care of your illegitimate brood.” I’m paraphrasing.
http://www.sunjournal.com/approved/story/1067660
The country wasn’t in recession before while Maine was still dishing out benefits left and right. Maine is in its own depression and has been for decades. When is enough going to be enough. When is the cutoff. I’m sorry for this gentleman but he shouldn’t be getting these benefits federal law is the law. Maine passed a bill to finally go along with what federal law states. If he likes his healthcare from Germany he should have stayed there. But to come here and jump on the rolls is truly ignorant to think we should pay for him because he got the healthcare in Germany is insane. I am sorry but this lawsuit should be tossed out the courts have ruled nationally on this that they have to abide by federal laws on Medicaid and this should be what is the law.
What does he do in the meantime?
If I was in his shoes I would be calling the German Embassy in Washington DC and inquiring about my government helping a citizen outside of its borders.
DK you aren’t sorry in the least. Admit it you are loving all this.
As a legal resident someone had to sponsor him to be here. In most cases that would have been his spouse and if not it had to be someone with an interest in his being made a legal resident. That person would have had to sign an affadavit of support making them 100% responsible for the care of this man for the first ten years of him being a legal resident. A little less than five years have passed. That means someone is still responsible for this mans care and upkeep. Where is that person? Divorce does not null the support responsibility. Only death does or the signer themselves becoming disabled.
I know this as my wife is a legal resident and I had to sign the affadavit I mention.
According to immigration policy, this man does not qualify for medicare, or any type of support like food stamps or TANF. If he was abandoned(and that doesnt appear to be the case) the government would assist him but make the signer of his support affadavit liable for repayment.
This question, and the other questions it raises are not being mentioned in this article.
Why shouldn’t everyone have health insurance? Get rid of the greedy insurance companies, everyone have Mainecare/Medicaid and decrease the wages of the CEO’s of the hospitals and let everyone enjoy health. Prevention would be the place to start!!! Have your taxes cover you healthcare and if you are healthy……you get a break. If you chose to be obese/smoke etc then you get no discounts. Car insurance gives you a discount if you buckle up, take a safety course etc. Discount healthy behaviors.
Oh my that sounds grand, and then we can let the Government decide all kinds of cool things. They can decide Motor cycles are too dangerous,they’re gone. Pro foot ball is pretty risky, and “we” all pay for their health care, this just wont do, Pro Ball, gone. Sky diving, right. skateboarding, nope, Hiking,hard on ankles, Sugar,salt, fat,meat,chips,cookies,roller skates, kids on bikes,ect.ect.ect all gone.
Sure, that sounds like a great Idea ,triplem.
After reading your comment I find it a little ironic that the tobacco tax in Maine is a major revenue source for MaineCare
Why?
Well, Gee! do you suppose that is because Corporate Maine sent a good share of the jobs elsewhere and these people have nowhere else to turn? I really have a hard time believing that Mainers would whine about helping other Mainers. It must be the influence of Flatlanders.
Mainers are in no way superior to “flatlanders” when it comes to generosity and helping others.
This Corporate Maine you speak of, they must be pretty good considering that the eveil corporate repubican types have been in control for a year and 3 months. They must be pretty good in order to demolish all the wonderful work that was done here in Maine over the past forty years under Democrat Control.
I know of a couple who owns a couple small businesses and rakes in the cash. Their two kids have always been on MaineCare. It’s insane. This couple pulls in a couple hundred grand a year.
MaineCare needs to audit their recipients better, if someone making that much can scam the system. Then people truly in need, like this Bruns fellow, could actually get help without overburdening the system.
So many people make the claim they know of someone who does…
Report it. Unless they are breaking the law there’s nothing to be done.
He moved from Germany! No another state. This guy has never paid a dime in taxes ever. Now he expects to be “taken care of” by Americans borrowing money from China?
So you would prefer to let the hospitals and other healthcare proviters carry the bill for his care?
I know. Get back in the car and drive on.
I live just across the border and had a surgical procedure done in Canada 12 years ago. As soon as I crossed the border and told immigration/customs why I was there, I was told to “park the car” and come in for an interview. After a substantial delay of paperwork and verifying the location and HOW I WOULD PAY FOR THE PROCEDURE, immigration gave me a pass good for three days and then I was to leave. Upon crossing back I mentioned to a nice official that it was hard to understand that being a neighbor and having family there that I felt like I was being kicked out. He was nice enough to say I could come back anytime. Maybe someone could see if he qualifies through his German citizenship to have them pay for this. It sure doesn’t sound like it is in the Canadian constituion where non-citizens have much in the way of health protection. Wasn’t there a Canadian skier that recently got hurt in the US, treated here and monstrous bills that Canada wouldn’t pay for? This is tough situation and I wish Hans all the best but the bottom line is he doesn’t qualify. The court is the wrong avenue to deal with this.
That sounds like something they should look into. I have heard of several cases of Canadians comming to the US for specialized medical care and Canada pays. How is life there? Conservatives here say we will all be broke if the National Healthcare Act is activated.
So Rocky now that you are “up to speed” should we let him live or die. You seem to have all the answers so why don’t we let you make this call.
We haven’t heard from you yet,oddly enough, on this issue, what say you? And then go on to explain what we do the next time, and the time after that and…..
let him live, but also drive up the dept like the rest of us mainers that have health issues and do no qualify.
I vote treat him with respect and compassion. Give him all the meds and care he needs. Right after Germany agrees to a payment plan. What about the couple from Wells who were deported back to Britain because the Feds didn’t think they were making enough money? What about the other extreme of President Obamas auntie that lives on the dole in Mass (from Kenya)? How do we decide who gets the free ride and who gets the boot? We deport people who run a business because we are afraid they will fail and let the loafers stay. Crazy aint it?
I vote we get him a visa and send him to Canada where he was wanting to go. Everyone wins.
Nice thought except Canada isn’t stupid enough to let him come sign onto their system.
Nice, sounds like the conservatives have set up a death panel for this man. Spectacular.
Only liberals have death panels. It’s a fairly new thing, but I remember way back to the 50’s when house-calling docs counseled people on when and how to die.
this state has death panels. i am a native of this state . i am on mainecare. i have heart issues diabetis kidney issues. they treat me like krap. i guess they have decided that basically i wont live long . they have decided to let me die . they dont say it but their actions speaks louder then words that is why i will back this guy up .
I guess in your case you are getting what YOU pay for.
And you, Joe, will get what YOU have coming to you. Ever hear of karma?
I already do. I have insurance through my employer, that I pay a premium for bi-weekly, and still cannot see a doctor without getting bills after the fact every time. I pay plenty for my healthcare.
Yes and you do have health care and apparently a good enough job that provides the insurance for it.
Just because you have to pay for it doesn’t mean you are disadvantaged. You are resentful that you are paying for it. You are lucky you have a job and healthcare.
Joe, sit back a second and relax, ok? Just for a minute, will you consider the views from the “old farts?” We know all about it because we’ve been in your shoes. We’ve also lived long enough to have seen, over and over again, how quickly things can change. In an instant, you could be without an employer,without insurance coverage. We don’t want that to happen to YOU, Joe.
I hate what working people are having to pay for their healthcare. It’s disgraceful, but instead of wanting to see another human denied help, why not turn your anger toward the insurance congolmerates? These big business giants love it when they can get society riled up and turning against one another. It’s called “divide and conquer,” and believe me, they will win, not you or I. We are slowly being urged to create an “every man for himself” world, and I can tell you, if it does become like that, we will all lose.
then i join his lawsuit
I’d say that the insurance corporations are the death panels. They decide what gets covered for how long. Assuming your a conservative, I’m sure your a fan of the insurance companies.
They only understand what FOX and Rush tell them.
They think that their insurance company will happily pay for anything and everything they’ll ever need to protect and maintain their health.
They aren’t very smart people.
Actually, everyone is a liberal when it comes 1) to spending other people’s money, 2) spending on things they want and believe in. As for which kind of liberal I am, watch my posts….
And what would you suggest we do? I hear all of the time, almost daily ,that Maine does not have a problem with “folks from away” coming here and immediately going on the system. I feel for this Gent, but when is enough enough? When does poor planning/choices on the part of an individual no longer constitute an emergency on the part of the tax payer?At what point does a safety net become a security blanket? I’m thinking that point in time is right about now.
Where does it say he explicitly came to Maine for MaineCare benefits.
It does not, but the results are the same, as in most cases where new residents go on the system almost immediately.
i back this guy up up 100%
I’m thinking there is more to this story then is being told.
Alot more to this story than is being told Rocky!
I know, like his odd “qualified alien” status, still having trouble making sense of that.
Qualified alien and permanent resident. You just like the sound of
qualified alien to try and make it sound as if he is not a legal
resident.
He is lawfully present here in the US and is a permanent resident and a
qualified alien. He can apply for citizenship, SS and has rights under
the law.
The definition of qualified alien includes being a legal resident.
No, you are all wrong. He just found out he is sick. This illness is new. He worked his whole life in Germany and he wanted to work here but his health prevented it. He tried to find work here, he had a job for a while. Then the illness set in.
I am glad we both understand. Is it insensitive to ask if he has had a job here in the US? Has he paid anything into Social Security? Has he paid anything, or worked anywhere, here in the US? Why is it wrong for immigrants to have to wait for something – healthcare, food stamps, GA – whatever. Why are we horrible people, or wastes of skin, if we feel that there should be some guidelines as to how Mainecare and such are handed out? I guess he should have stayed in Germany – this time around, maybe socialized medicine wins out over state funded (taxpayer funded) insurance.
I have all the sympathy in the world for this man but shouldn’t Germany be taking care of him?
As a permanent resident he has a right to be protected under all the laws of the US and has the right to get Social Security SSI and Medicare.
so, he didn’t work here, didn’t pay into the system…
but he’s “entitled” to the systems that we pay for our whole working lives?
this is the problem with this state, overly generous, we have to get rid of the freeloaders.
Where does it say he never worked while in the U.S. I don’t see his work history.
Nonetheless he is a permanent resident he has a green card which gives him many rights including the right to work and pay income taxes and collect Social Security.
I wouldn’t call what this state is doing to him as generous, it sounds like the poor guy isn’t long for this world which should make so many here happy.
…and just how much do you think a 5-day-old baby on Mainecare has paid into the system, Monk?
have you never heard of parents?
ya know, how the parents are responsible for their children until they turn 18?
derp?
No worries, we are running him/her a tab.
Here’s a good one for you, at the rate CBO projects this kid you speak of will work most of his life to pay the debt we have run up for them, their children could work a lifetime and nevr pay it off. Comforting ,no?
School children haven’t paid into the system either yet we are paying quite a few of their parents food stamps to feed them and also paying the schools to feed them 10 additional meals a week.
parents are responsible for their children until they are 18.
Does anyone out there have any idea how many children under the age of 18 are receiving SSI in the State of Maine? I would love to know how many. It irritates me to no end, knowing that a child is eligible for SSI because the child suffers from ADHD or any number of behavioral problems. I could understand it far better if the child was responsible for their own expenses but, they are not. Someone please tell me how people collect SSI for their children? In some families, more than one of the children receive the benefits from SSI.
Some families get them for the death of a parent. The surviving parent gets them to (I assume) make up for the wages lost upon the death of the spouse. They get what their deceased parent had paid in.
my neice got 800.00 a month startting at age 9.she never worked in her life.my son was teribbly injured at work at age 27 and gets much less.if anyone can figure out this system,please let me in on it
When a parent dies they receive the benefit. It pays for healthcare and living expenses.
True, we’ll work on that one next session.
You aren’t on Social Security (that you pay for your whole working life) are you. I am. Good luck trying to get your money back. Conservatives now consider you a freeloader and they should be able to use that money for themselves. How do you think they become “the one percent.”
That’s certainly not the way i see it,
I applaud you for making it through life and being old enough to collect, I am ashamed that our politicians use social security and medicade like their own personal piggy banks to draw from for their pet projects and ridiculous spending bills that they whisk through congress.
SS was originally supposed to be like a long term bank account for an individual, not to be touched by the government.
keep on fightin’ that battle. how many democrats in congress do you think are in the 1%? plenty.
I’m getting more liberal every day, but this is too much. Bruns, a single, non-citizen permanent resident moved to Maine on his way to Canada for a cooler climate, but got stopped at the border because he couldn’t get a visa. (Apparently Canada has a clue, while we do not.) So now we have to pay for his very expensive health care? Since he is not a U.S. citizen he must therefore be a German citizen, so why doesn’t he go there for his health care? I’m sorry, but this is just a travesty to all Maine taxpayers, and those helping bring the lawsuit forward should be ashamed of themselves. How about taking up a collection for plane fare to send him home for the treatment he deserves, provided by his own country? My understanding is that Germany’s public health care system is very good.
Many of us are descended from permanent residents, but nonetheless he is a permanent resident. He has rights under the laws of this country.
The travesty is he was getting his healthcare needs met and now he isn’t due to a new law and more than likely will die if he can’t receive treatment.
you’re not a liberal….
“qualified alien”
Qualified alien and permanent resident.
He is lawfully present here in the US and is a permanent resident and a qualified alien. He can apply for citizenship, SS and has rights under the law.
The definition of qualified alien includes being a legal resident.
If this man has no money, how is he going to have the finances to get back to Germany? He has lived in the US for awhile? so maybe doesn’t have any family or home in Germany to go back to.
Life can be pretty horrendous for someone that is alone and as sick as this man is. This is one of
the people LePage was wanting to cull from the rolls of Maine care? This whole Maine Care thing is going to work out just fine!!! [Sarcasm intended.]
No you don’t “have all the sympathy in the world for this man.” That’s a very hypocritical comment that got cancelled out by your “shouldn’t Germany be taking care of him?”
How do you propose he gets there? Do you think LePew is going to spring for an airline ticket?
I doubt it. Do you think he’s even well enough to travel in the condition he’s in?
obviously he’s well enough to travel in the condition he’s in!
he makes it to presque isle for treatment all the time!
so yes, he should go back to his country of origin and seek free help there.
The seriously ill do travel and it’s a hardship. People travel to cancer centers for their treatment quite often.
Socialized medicine…isnt that where the death panel would just give him some painkillers?
You’ve got it backwards. The real death panels are run by the for-profit insurance corporations.
The notion of “death panels” was a Republican slur on President Obama’s efforts to ensure that physicians would be paid for providing end-of-life choices counseling to elderly and/or seriously ill patients. The Republicans succeeded in slandering this counseling as “death panels,” and getting rid of it, much to the detriment of the American people. They were concerned only with political gain, as usual.
If socialized healthcare in Europe is so great , why doesn’t her go back home for his care?
We have the best medical In the world. When you start look at longevity and infant mortality rates we are way behind. Because we have a lot that are uninsured and can not get proper health care. We have one of the biggest disparities between health and income.
Funny how this lengthy article, ostensibly about a court case, barely touches on their legal reasoning but instead tells his story and rehashes policy debates. His being sick isn’t a legal issue. What are the actual LEGAL ISSUES? The article doesn’t really say – maybe because there aren’t any. This is a press release lawsuit.
Did you happen to read the complaint that was filed in court? It was referenced in the article.
Yup. and I thought it was pretty clear.
Funny, because the article didn’t actually explain it whatsoever.
Not clear to the right-wingers, pensionerade. They have serious problems w/reading comprehension.
Hey, why don’t you point out to me the exact part of the article that explains, in detail, the legal complaint? Go ahead, I dare you.
Oh wait, you can’t, it doesn’t exist. Talk about problems with reading comprehension.
In the above article it says
“We are asking the court to find that current law violates the Constitution and order the Department of Health and Human Services to restore health insurance coverage for Hans and other, similarly situated individuals.”
That does not explain in detail the legal complaint. That’s one sentence that says what they want; it does not explain the grounds for the complaint itself.
Think of it this way: If a criminal said he ought to be let free, that would not be a justification for WHY he ought to be let free (a botched warrant, misplaced evidence, etc.) That justification forms the basis of the complaint. There is no explanation of that justification in your example or in the article. The article says the plaintiffs believe the cuts violate the equal protection clause – that’s all.
From the 11th paragraph of the article. (For those unfamiliar with where 11th would be located that would be just after ten and before twelve). “That affidavit is the centerpiece of a civil lawsuit filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Bangor against Department of Health and Human Services Commissioner Mary Mayhew.” The underlined blue thing is called a hyperlink. If you click on it Todd, you do that by placing the little arrow thingy on the hyperlink and left clicking on your mouse, it will take you to a site that has the complaint that was filed in court. Now Todd when you get there it will mention things about The 14th Amendment and stuff about Equal Protection Clause and stuff like that but don’t let that confuse you. Good luck and happy reading.
Your statement that I have to leave the article by clicking on the hyperlink in order to understand the legal complaint proves my argument that the article does not explain the legal complaint. Thanks for agreeing and making my argument for me.
Call the reporter and ask him to explain it to you and why he couldn’t explain it in plain English what all that legalese means.
You are being impossible.
Wait, why do I have to do that? I thought he explained it all in the article. Oh, wait, he didn’t? Then thanks for agreeing with me. You might try actually reading what people write and then responding to it, instead of just having your random non-sequitur for a change.
Don’t waste your time with Todd. The article linked to the actual complaint, but that was probably a little too much to expect that Todd would click on a link.
The reporter clearly didn’t bother to click on the link and he wrote a whole article about it. Why should I?
That makes no sense. The reporter provided the link all you have to do is click on it like many of us seem to have done quite easily.
Here…. click on this link and you can read it in the detail you desire.
Gute Nacht
https://docs.google.com/a/bangordailynews.com/file/d/0Bz1xw7lZwFn_MXlpbHlHWDFzN0k/edit?pli=1
It makes perfect sense. A link is not part of the article; I wrote that it wasn’t explained in the article. Do you know what the words “link” and “article” mean?
Indeed.
Some of these people have a hard time with compassion that’s for sure. It’s amazing how cold they can be until something horrible happens to them, then they will be screaming about their rights louder than anyone.
No, I read the article. That’s why I commented about THE ARTICLE. It’s the REPORTER’S job to read the complaint and SUMMARIZE IT IN THE ARTICLE. That’s how real reporters do their job. ‘Referencing’ it isn’t good enough.
^^^^
“Hans and many others have been improperly, and without sufficient
justification, singled out and denied health insurance coverage that
provides medically necessary treatment,” she said in a statement
Thursday. “Hans’ life hangs in the balance today, but we know that there
are hundreds of other Maine residents who also are being wrongly denied
necessary medical care.
“We are asking the court to find that current law violates the
Constitution and order the Department of Health and Human Services to
restore health insurance coverage for Hans and other, similarly situated
individuals.”
That does not explain in detail the legal complaint, but instead is a summary of the relief they seek. Learn the difference, then try again.
Did he ever work in Maine? Ever contribute to the system that he wants to draw off? I’m confused…he moved here from Texas (well enough and had enough money to travel I’m assuming) then when he entered Maine he became disabled (Does this mean he also gets a check every month and we’re paying his rent and food bills along with that?) Man know wonder the state is in turmoil. More and more people are going to be heading this way if the door is open to a free ride once you hit the state line.
As a permanent resident, he has the same right to SS SSI and Medicare as many people do.
I doubt he contracted cancer on purpose in order to take money from the people of Maine.
To listen to the right wingers on here you would think he planned to get cancer and moved to Maine just because we were oh so generous with healthcare benefits. What a bunch of self-centered , selfish creatures.
Yes and very callous.
And how do you propose we pay for all of these people? I know, the state and feds can take our whole paychecks and ration them out accordingly. Yup that’ll work.
You know Todd I have been working and paying taxes for more then 40 years. It seems to me that in that period of time we have been able to find all kinds of ways to spend tax money and not just on poor people who happen to be dying. Last week the State of Maine had plenty of money to spend on a financial study for a private investor owned road so we can’t be totally broke. As far as your BS about the feds or state taking all of our paychecks it is just that total unadulterated BS. I haven’t seen you complaining about any of the other ways the government spends our money other then on welfare. So would it be fair for me to say that in your opinion it is okay to spend government money on helping corporations but if it is being spent on keeping a human being alive it is a bad thing?
The rest of us can only sit back and wait, 4mer. Any group of people who are that toxic,self-centered, mean and vile is, by its very nature, destined to self-destruct. Can’t happen soon enough.
yeah, right.
“free healthcare, free love! free rent! free food! free transportation! Free child care!”
Sounds like a perfect world right?
Well, guess what, it’s not a perfect world!
It’s a world where you have to work for what you get.
And it’s also a world that if you take money away from some people, and give it to others then eventually the money runs out and nothing is left.
Actually, I believe the world would be a much better place if there were free child care. Parents would get to keep a lot more of their hard-earned money, and I can almost guarantee there would be less child abuse. If this society actually valued children and stay-at-home parents we’d all be a lot better off.
Things will be a lot different after November 6th .
How much do you donate in charity per year? We’ll see who’s self-centered.
Right Todd let’s play who can say they gave the most money away.
I beg to differ with you! I am far from being self-centerd or a selfish – I work over 40 hours a week, volunteer for my kids activities, fundraise for numerous organizations. Just because someone believes that some type of limits or guidelines should be in place in order that those that really need the help gets it doesn’t make them a mean or terrible person. I suggest you check yourself in the mirror — you seem very judgemental in insinuating that people are self-centered or selfish over a comment made in the BDN comment section. Think mighty highly of yourself much?
Do I take it from what you posted that you are in favor of letting another human being die in the name of your almighty tax dollar?
Take what you want from it! I’ve read your comments and what I take from you is that you are a very judgemental person who sits at the computer saying how things should be done. Get involved in the reality of our countries situation. Those that are out working can’t pay for everyone — anyone who is able to work should contribute in some way. I’m not saying let this man or any person die — I’ve been questioning if he ever contributed to the society that he is bashing for not saving his life. I’m all for free insurance for everyone…maybe that would mean spreading the entitlements out — such as not only certain people getting free insurance, housing, food, etc. Stop some of the other entitlements and give all free healthcare. So NO I don’t want anyone to die — AND — I don’t want to die at 80 still having to work because I can’t afford healthcare either.
Yes, he has the right to collect if he meets the criteria that we all have to meet. In this case it appears that he does not.
Where does it say that? Do you know his work history? If he applied and was approved he met the criteria somewhere.
He doesnt meet the criteria because he has not lived in this country as a legal resident for five years.
That is the criteria I am refering too.
Yes, according to the new law. I understand that, he should be grandfathered in since he was only a year away from qualifying under the new law.
When I made that post I was not thinking in regards to the new law. Apparently he did qualify at one time and since he is facing what he is and his life does indeed depend upon it he should receive the help he needs.
The outcome of all this will be interesting. I hope it will be ironed out in court.
I think the lawsuit will be about them challenging his removal for a law passed, after he was already granted benefits. Benefits he was eligible for, prior to this new law.
I don’t think he will win his case, based on the fact that the new law brings Maine into line with the Federal rule. My guess is he will argue that he should’ve been grandfathered into the benefit due to a change that happened while he was covered.
Wonder if he did know he had cancer prior to coming to Maine…Maine is a good state to come too if your looking for handouts at the door. I personally know many people with handicapped kids that came to Maine several years back because Maine used to have an entitlement that home and day hab services were provided for all as soon as they entered the state. This has since changed with the closure of the waiver program. So now children and adults with disabilities are not able to get the needed services but many from out of state are already getting these services. I don’t have a problem with anyone needing services getting it but not for people to come into the state because of its easy access to generous services
All I can make a personal opinion on, is what the article says, that he ended up here in 2009 after he separated from his wife who is a U.S. citizen. He was looking for a cooler climate which we do have compared to the intense heat in Texas. It says he became physically disabled but doesn’t give a reason why and recently he has become much sicker.
It doesn’t sound like he came here for MaineCare but that’s just my opinion. Bad things happen to people all the time and he’s sick and in need of health care to survive. No one can prove his intent (here) they can only assume what they want to about him. He’s a human being in dire straits that is a fact.
And some please explain how equal protection applies. He is not being denied healthcare. He is being denied free healthcare.
The argument would be that because he resides here legally and does otherwise qualify for MaineCare, he should enjoy the same benefits as anyone else here legally (i.e., American citizens) who qualifies, and that the five-year waiting period is arbitrary. Also, he was receiving MaineCare before the state changed the rules — a change that adversely affected some MaineCare beneficiaries, but not others.
Orwell said it best, “All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.” Guess that’s at the heart of the tea party thinking.
I agree with all of your points but one. The 5year wait is not arbitrary, it is the federal standard. Which states can choose to go by or not. In other words the federal rule is 5yrs, but States can choose not to use that standard, and up until Jan, Maine didn’t have that law.
Ed, do you suppose this guy has a million dollars lying around that he hasn’t mentioned to anyone? Do you have ANY idea how expensive cancer treatment is?
I do. You can easily burn though a Million in less than a year. He can get his free care in Germany where he is a citizen.
When I lived in the U.K. various relatives came from the U.S. to visit and ended up needing to go to the ER. All three of them (this happened over a fifteen year period) offered to pay for their medical services upon leaving the hospital, but not one hospital would accept payment, however willing my family members were to pay up. When my mother, who had had a gall bladder attack, asked why her money would not be accepted, she was told that the system was set up to treat people, not to collect money, and that it would cost the National Health System more to set up such a system than to give the care needed and send folks on their way. Compare that with having to show your insurance card in this country before you can even be seen in the ER. Believe me, plenty of Americans have been helped in Europe when sick and we should help this poor gentleman. It is called being the Good Samaritan.
It’s called a waste of money.
Todd, I swear when they were teaching parenting classes in empathy and compassion, either you or your parents (or maybe all of you) stayed home that day.
Where do you get off attacking peoples parents and personal moral character? Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion..bringing in “yo mamma” comments are not called for
I’d be ashamed to call any of you cruel minded people my children. Somewhere, somehow, someone fell down on the job and you are each a reflection of that. Nice world that’s being built.
Let’s see if I’ve got this right: It’s wrong to “attack” peoples’ parents and character, but it’s fine to allow a human to die.” Better get used, to it, collegestudent, because as long as your crowd thinks it’s okay to deny another human medical care, I’ll be here…attacking that premise as usual. You’re welcome.
He is a fellow human being and should not have to suffer and die because of monetary concerns. Helping out people like this is how I want my tax dollars spent – not on subsidizing big business and making sure millionaires have enough to buy their third or fourth luxury home.
It’s how you want your money spent, you write him a check. It’s not how I want my money spent, so don’t force your guilt on me.
ToddWT – It’s called morals, ethics, compassion – not guilt.
Nope, it’s called guilt, I got it right the first time. But even if you were right, it’d be YOUR morals, ethics, and compassion, not mine. If you think it’s unethical not to float the boat for every sick person in the state, you can pay for it on your own. It’s called charity. I, meanwhile, think it’s unethical for government to force me to be charitable.
Funny how liberals don’t want government enforcing morality when it comes to social issues, but when it comes to healthcare spending they do.
ToddWT – It’s called morals, ethics, compassion – not guilt.
ToddWT – It’s called morals, ethics, compassion – not guilt.
ToddWT – It’s called morals, ethics, compassion – not guilt.
There! Say it enough times and it might sink in.
It’s rather telling when someone confuses compassion with feelings of guilt. He’s hijacked this thread with his rantings about links in the article. Geez.
The Greedy well to do have no empathy. If law applied the same for all A lot of the well to do would be in jail for life. Selling fake maple syrup In vermont is a felony 5 years in jail. Warlmart sell many things that are just as fraudulent. like 55db gain rabbit ears for digital TV . just saying the rich owe poor nothing. Let the laws be written that all fraud is 5 years in jail . And most big business ,banks and government would be in jail. That is not going to happen but it should if they want to play the should be on a level playing field. lets see how the well to do like it then.
Finally! Spoken like a true MaineNative. Thank you.
or take vacations in Jamaica…
Or Hawaii, or Bar Harbor.
“Have a heart, people.” They have no heart. The only thing that the radical right conservatives are interested in is their precious tax dollar. To hell with human beings living or dying. They have no interest in that, well unless it is an unborn human and then they are all for it. To hear them tell it they are the only ones who pay taxes. Funny I don’t remember seeing anything on a Maine Income Tax Form that said only conservatives had to pay. Now it appears that there will be blood on the hands of these selfish, self-centered know it alls. It seems Maine has it’s own “death panels” , and it is called the Maine Legislature.
I think it’s terrible when people get sick; that doesn’t mean I feel a need to pay for it. Tell me, how much do you donate to charity per-year, Mr. Guilt Trip?
Keep that thought in mind should you ever A) lose a job and insurance then B) become sick and can’t afford the bills. Will you still be a darwinist about this type of thing. I doubt it, very, very much.
Death by Tea Party !
Death by cancer, the tea party has nothing to do with his condition.
and if you’re feeling so generous with everyone elses money then why don’t you pay for his treatments?
“He did say that the decision to alter eligibility requirements was difficult but it has resulted in $1.3 million in annual savings to a MaineCare program that is over budget.”
Which is obviously far more important that a human being suffering without proper health care.
If the court grants class action status which it probably will then $1.3 million is going to seem like a pin hole in the snow.
Sure is!
I’m glad you pointed that out. Suppose anyone thought about the repercussions of a class action suit and the enormous pay outs that could happen?
They used to call that “Penny wise and pound foolish.” Got to wonder why that makes sense.
I’m not going to take the time to read this whole article but given his condition I think he deserves MaineCare. Who doesn’t deserve it are young (overall) healthy nonworking mothers and their child(ren). Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not trying to point the finger at ‘everyone’ here who fits that description. I’m talking about women who WANT to have a kid and do not have the finances to do it on their own. Let MaineCare go to people in real need. Not to folks who will take advantage of it who SHOULD be able to afford a few doctors visits here and there without MaineCare. If you can’t afford a few occasional doctors visits, then you really shouldn’t be having kids.
Don’t comment until you read the whole article.
According to the Medicare website he’s entitled to file with them since he’s a permanent resident of the US. So why hasn’t he? It would provide him treatment. The article indicates they are giving “emergency” benefits at Maine Care so why hasn’t he applied for them? I would say cancer is an emergency.
Let’s do some number crunching.
Mr Martins claims by refusing benefits to these 500 people DHHS saved 1.3 million. Average savings being $ 2600.00. Now I assume that 2/3 of the 1.3 million is federal dollars so only $ 429,000 is the savings of state tax dollars or $ 858.00 per person. That means that Mr LePage, Mr Martins and some of you who have posted here equated a human life to worth at the most $ 2600 and possibly as little as $ 858. Come on folks what are we coming to.
And these State tax dollars are not being saved — they are just being shifted to some other line item. Mr LePage’s budget is larger than both of last two.
The other important issue to note is that Mr Burns is still receiving health care as required by law as a charity case which is translating to higher health insurance premiums. So not only are you not really saving the tax dollars you are also incurring high health insurance premiums.
Now Mr Burns’s medicine is not covered by charity health care but would be covered by general assistance another program mandated by the State and Federal government that Mr LePage is pushing the funding of onto the local communities. There go your property taxes. And still no savings in State tax dollars.
So when all of the smoke and mirrors are cleared away Mr LePage and crew are not saving us any tax dollars with there shell games. State tax dollars are just being reallocated to their priorities and the cost of mandated programs are being shifted to the local communities and each of us personally.
These cuts were nor will they be the solution to the problems — the problems are still there just the payment thereof has changed.
okay, now lets do some more number crunching.
how much is a single cancer treatment?
how much are the drugs he requires?
I gauruntee you it’s much more than 2,600.
2,600 MIGHT get you 1 ER visit.
Well thought out and written.
at age 65 why is he not eligible for medicare?
German citizen.
Maine’s number 1 industry is tourism. Over the years, Maine has shown great kindness to German visitors in particular. One was Irwin Kreuz, who accidentally disembarked in Bangor enroute from Frankfurt to San Francisco. Others included the 4,000 German prisoners of war held in Aroostook during WWII who, no doubt, received free medical treatment. This gentleman is a legal immigrant – not just a tourist or prisoner of war. To withhold medical treatment from him is going to make for horrific publicity with would-be European tourists and in this global community, it will no doubt go viral if it hasn’t already. To treat people cruelly is bad for the tourism business (I am trying to appeal here to the pocketbook mentality of the Republicans since attempting to appeal to their stoney hearts is a complete waste of time.) So even if you can only think of this in dollars and cents, please try to have some sense!!!
If any of us travelled to France or England or one of those “socialized medicine” countries, and became ill, the cost of our treatement would be… zero.
I suspect we would not be despised there, as this gentleman appears to be despised by many commenters–I wonder how many of them would call themselves Christians…
I don’t think everyone here is a Christian and I don’t think it’s about religion at all, but about the law
I do suspect that many people here who would identify as Christians express a disdain for ill and suffering people that would horrify Jesus.
Orwellian doublethink: It’s morally wrong to take the life of a fetus, but morally acceptable to allow a living adult to die a slow, painful death.
We’re all dying a slow, painful death aren’t we?
eventually we’ll all end up in the ground.
Orwellian doublethink: It’s morally wrong to apply the death penalty but morally acceptable to kill a baby in the womb, eight months along, wiggling fingers, toes and all.
And that’s the story the thumpers are sticking to!
Or maybe the answer is, “I don’t owe you specifics, but believe me, when the day is done, I can sleep with a clear conscience.” Can you say that? In the end, that’s all that truly matters, in the grand scheme of things.
And again the arguement for Public Option is made. Folk’s, it’s coming. Even if Paulie stood on the front steps of Blaine House and threatened to hold his breath ’till he turned blue if Public Option came to Maine, it’s gonna come. This one case makes, for Maine, the arguement that Unversal Coverage, which is what P.O. is, is desperately needed . It also draws that ‘line in the sand’ that our Legislature is going to have to face, sooner or later, when the actual implementing of P.O. starts and the law’s for it’s application are written. If the Maine Legislature was smart, and their has been evidence of it in the recent budget discussion’s, Nutting’s sulking not included, then this case and the upcoming SCOTUS ruling, expected in June, would seem to provide the perfect opportuity for Maine to be ‘the one’s’ to start this off on the right foot. So why are our Legislator’s stil sitting on the fence ? November is coming.
By November, they’ll all have tumbled off the fence, as in Humpty Dumpty. Counting the days.
So my girlfriend, who was BORN in Maine, makes JUST above minimum wage – is offered insurance through work, but it would cost her upwards of 40% of her paycheck BEFORE taxes w/a 5,000 dollare detectable – doesn’t qualify for Maine-Care or any of the above – but this guys does? And he wasn’t born here? Isn’t a CITIZEN of this country, but just LIVES here? I’m sorry I’m a native Mainer, born and bred (and I’m not a Republican!) but honestly if you’re from Germany where you could get all the free care you want, go there! As a nation (and a state) we suck at health care. An MRI costs thousands of dollars here but hundreds in the UK. Why is that? Our colleges are filled with ppl from other places getting a FREE education, so that drives up the costs of colleges, which drives up the costs of how much we charge for services, the never ending vicious cycle.
Just think, if the GOP succeeds in rolling back the Affordable Health Act, sooner or later most Americans will find themselves walking in this man’s shoes. As full time jobs become a scarce commodity, there won’t be health insurance coverage from your employer. And just the same, when you get truly sick, employer based health plans are not designed to cover you. We’ll also go back to the days where pre-existing conditions and coverage caps affected your ability to get medical care.
I agree – I make just above min wage and my ins would cost me 45% of my pay check bi-weekly with a 5K deductible. That’s at full time, mind you. I think many ppl find themselves in this man’s shoes and can relate – but the legality of it is the problem, he is a citizen of another country. Yes, while a resident here, but still a citizen of another country.
Ah, but that requires these tpers to actually think. I don’t know why it’s so hard for them to think it all the way through before they start screaming. It seems beyond their capability to imagine themselves in this man’s shoes…all while they insist HE stays in them.
Bangor bias news is at it again. I think the state should sue you people that write all the lies on this paper… No wonder people buying less of this bias crap
if i was him i would leave this state he would get much better care
i am going to sign on his law suit for the way i have been treated
wwjd would He turn him away because he wasn’t one of his own?
Jesus died so he can go to heaven. Guess this guy should start praying..so he will get to see Jesus alot sooner than the rest of us.
Ok, so here is another question. Why is he in the U.S and how did he receive the Qualified Alien status, and what is that ,exactly? Ok, so I looked it up and something is not making sense with his status.
us first immigrants later
LePage is an indentured servant ! He would do anything for his backers ideology !
I thought in order to become a legal immigrant one had to have US citizens sign documents stating that they will be their “sponsor” and the sponsor would be responsible for food, housing, etc. in the event that the immigrant was not able to care for themselves.
Could someone add some facts to this, or more info?
Almost without exception, when people immigrate here, they immediately find a job. They’re willing to do many jobs Americans would not do and their goal is to become self-sufficient.
They pay Social Security, unemployment taxes, state and federal taxes, as well they should.
But let them get sick and suddenly they’re worthless, so ship them out.
THIS IS NOT AMERICA. THIS IS NOT AMERICAN.
This guy should not be on mainecare go back to germany…sorry dude
Why does everyone talk about “who” is going to pay rather than the “cost”?
To Liberals they think we should all eventually be collecting these programs. It is time to have major reforms on Medicaid, Welfare , Social Security folks who are able bodied shouldn’t be collecting these programs. They should be getting jobs. That is the problem you have everyone jumping on the wagon collecting these benefits especially at a time when the country is in a major depression. It’s lunacy the Democrats and their supporters think we can continue down this path without having no limits to when to stop. This is why Maine will continue to be at the bottom in economic rankings. Because they have made Welfare being acceptable as the way of life here in Maine. Until the working people really get angry and go to Augusta and revolt like other groups have and put a stop to business at the State House. Nothing is going to be done.
This should not be named Maine Care but World Care. WE are really paying for German nationals to access healthcare ……This typifies everything that is wrong with our social welfare system.
Are you kidding me? Why should we have to pay for someone who is not a legal citizen? Mainecare and food stamps is a crock! The only people who get it are the people who are not deserving of it. I’m all for helping people when they need it, but i do not support generations of families living off the system and having multiple kids/ “sickness” to stay on the system. The whole system needs to be revamped, and many more people need to have all these freebies whisked away from them. I’m a hard working Mainer and I’m sick of my tax money going to the undeserving!!
Everyone tells me how great state sponsored care is. Like in Germany. So when he wanted to live in a cooler climate than Texas that may have been a better destination. If he is still a German citizen, perhaps the German govt should foot the bill for the treatment he receives here. As for the constitution, what part of it guarantees the State has to pay for his healthcare because Texas was too hot?
DISGUSTING…….the cost of uninsured people is put on insurance premiums. It’s a gross thought that the CEO’s of these hospitals and the insurance companies make over/around 600,000 per year. I would say that if the companies are making that much money…….they should be doing much more CHARITY work and not putting the price on the working classes insurance premiums!!! Nothing but GREED…….and by the way, I work and have NO health insurance and wouldn’t buy a plan if I could!!!
$600,000 a year is a gross underestimate. Angela Braly, CEO of Wellpoint (Anthem Blue Cross) made $13,100,000 in overall compensation in 2009.
Your taxes are long gone before YOU pay for this GUY. YOUR taxes aren’t yours once they come out of your check. Don’t worry………..be heartless/selfish.
WWJD
This is not a relevant statement-actions of a man who was born 2000 years ago does not pertain to this discussion.
Tell that to Rick Santorum.
If we had the Affordable Healthcare Act in place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
We would also be broke and want to die.
If I want to look at the constitutionality of this, I would say all people within the United States jurisdiction should not lose life, liberty, and property without due process of law, according the the 14th amendement, but it says nothing about healthcare.
On the other hand, if I want to take it a step further and go back to the Declaration of Independence, I would say, how could we respect one person’s life over another within the jurisdiction of the United States, if all men are created equal and endowed by our creator to certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and we are to mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor?
I think they are also right in that it normally costs more money to pay for emergency care then preventative care. It can also be easier on people to just call the specialist, rather than go to the E.R. Or emergency room, take up room in the E.R., then have a specialist called. Even a general practitioner will say go to the E.R., but that is not always the best, convenient, quickest, comfortable, or cheapest route depending on the situation…..
I don’t see anywhere in the u.s. constitution that says “foreign nationals have a right to free health care funded by the taxpayers”
But it does say anyone within the jurisdiction of the united states, shall not be deprived of life, liberty, and property without due process of law……in the 14th amendment.
“nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, and property, without due process of law; nor to deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”.
Not just Americans, not just white people. It does not say everyone but foreigners, and it does not say anyone but people who have been in mental hospitals.
Hospitals encourage people to get sick.
Maine should put him on a plane back to Germany and dismiss this ridiculous lawsuit.
For a fraction of the cost of 1 ER visit he could have been back in germany by now.
The immigration people should send him back to Germany. Immigrants should not come here for a free ride & if unable to support themselves, be sent back to their native country. I am sorry for his predicament, but it sounds as if he has cost the goverment money since he arrived.
Well, as much as I would like to agree and say yes we should care for the tired, the poor, the masses, It is obvious we as Americans, we as a country , and certainly we in the state of Maine can not. The problem does not fall with this man alone. It does not fall with his “alien” kind alone. It is a problem of devastating proportions that has been alowed to fester in our society far to long. First and foremost we need to make hard choices. We can not support the world. If you are not An American and by that I don’t mean being born here but at least becomming a citizen, well then I don’t feel we are in the position to support your medical needs. This is only from a practical standpoint. Emotion aside. We just can’t do it. I wish it was different. I really do. In a time when our Gov. is talking about budget cuts that will effect the elderly Americans, The mentally ill Americans, and the truly physically disabled Americans, why would we even be discussing a German citizens rights to American healthcare. I believe in healthcare for all. I believe it is a right, but we do not offer universal healthcare here at this time. We can not act like we do.
WHAT ?
You know while reading some of these remarks from people talking about how much money it, or will cost the tax payers to help people in need baffles me, too those who love there money so much, enjoy it, cause your not taking it with you when you go. Unreal how humans can be so selfish, I wish all the best to Mr. Bruns and his family.
It costs a lot more than what someone put in the comments section.
I think they stated it would only be 2,600 per person for mainecare?
well, i hate to break it to you, but 2,600 won’t even get you an ambulance ride and a few hour ER visit nowadays.
soooo, where’s all this money coming from?
You go girl ! Stand your ground, speak your mind and don’t ever let anyone tell you what or how to think. We had enough of that with George the 2nd and his War Whooping crowd. The Constitution deserves nothing less and requires only the guts to defend it for it to work for all of us, not just those who think they are the Holy Apostle’s of Righteousness. Maine and Michigan right now are seeing what happens when someone decides to let others decide for them. It’s time for a serious wake-up folk’s, before this train start’s passing the very people it’s supposed to serve.
Ah yes, its Bush’s fault.
And please cite for me the part of the Constitution that says foreign citizens, or even our own, are ENTITLED to free health care.
That’s more or less what the Federal Court said last year in a Washington State case regarding an alien and food stamps. .. While Maine lawyers choose to ignore this rejection of the claim; the court won’t.
Bravo! Well said.
You could add Wisconsin, TN, and just about any other state that was duped into electing a republican governor. Our country’s conservative party is a disgrace, and has pretty much become the party of hate. I have never seen another group of people so firmly against anything beneficial to humanity. They could learn a thing or two from the conservative governments of some of our foreign allies.
Someone couldn’t handle EditorGina’s truth and flagged it. It was a good post.
That argument is getting a bit tiresome. The plain truth is that we can not afford to carry the burden of unlimited benefits.
I don’t believe some of these comments. They give me the chills.
It’s unfortunate HOWEVER…the State had to make changes and adjustments and this man can claim his Civil Rights were violated, where as a legitimate born US citizen can’t claim that and has to just accept noncoverage. AND with a pre existing health condition, PRIVATE insurance companies can refuse to cover him just because of that exclusion. So the argument here is that he’s not a US citizen but married to one so he has access to more rights than a US citizen. Yup that sounds about right
how is this guy supporting himself. no mention of a job just a wife in florida. send her the bill ,but i bet she was tired of taking care of him and filed for seperation so she would not be responsible for his debt. if he were to go back to his own country he would get free healthcare. by the way they took my mothers mainecare she has had 3heart attacks is unable to work she is also a maine resident who has worked and paid into the system for years. if you want to get upset how about helping her and other mainers. this is to the reporter your story is missing alot of imfo. how long has he been here, has he ever worked,what about his wife, and how is he supporting himself.
Why did they remove her MaineCare benefit?
because my stepdads 410 a month in social security ( hes 75) and her $100 a week to baby sit is to much income even though her meds are 300 a month
There are a lot of programs that can help with meds but they often don’t help for more than 6 months at a time. If she is disabled and can’t work she could qualify for SSDI.
I wish her the best and hope she can work this out. It is a problem in this country and it needs to be addressed. No one should have to go without health care particularly someone who needs medication to survive.
many of the liberals don’t seem to understand that charity starts at home.
How are the taxpaying citizens of Maine responsible for the health care of a German national?
Regardless of how I personally feel, the question attached to the article is whether or not the Constitution of the United States was violated when the State of Maine made him ineligible for Maine Care. I don’t ever remember (for those that will malign me later this is the littoral please see my first sentence) reading in the Constitution that healthcare is a right or that it is promised to all citizens. So the answer is no the Constitution was not violated…now human decency is another thing. You take a man that has a diagnosis of cancer off Maine Care? I would have thought that cancer was an emergency and he would have qualified for an exception. Now that he is 65 he should qualify for Medicare/Medicaid.
except he’s not a citizen of the united states.
Mainecare is Maine’s version of the federal Medicaid program, as I understand it, and Maine receives federal money to pay part of the costs. Mr. Bruns is in the United States legally with a “green card” and presumably is entitled to equal protection under the law. Maine in this instance may be denying that equal protection. I’m sure the courts will let us know. It’s their decision regardless of our opinions.
Having come of age in the 60’s when despite the Vietnam War and Richard Nixon, I thought this country was great and stood out as the best people could be. Now we are in the early 21st century and it seems like we have turned into a nasty, money-grubbing, dog-eat-dog society. Maybe we always were that way and I was just too optimistic or naive.
The Constitution is considered to be a “living document,” meaning it is to be interpreted and amended when needed to address issues that our Forefathers could not have imagined in the 1700’s. The first 10 amendments are “The Bill of Rights,” with #9 clearly stating that certain rights set forth in the Constitution…”shall not be construed to deny or disparage others [i.e. other rights] retained by the people.” Thus, the Constitution was never meant to be an exhaustive enumeration of our rights.
Of COURSE, The Constitution, in its original form, did not address healthcare. It also did not address public education, nor did it address child pornography. It did not give us a right to maintain an Air Force – only an Army, a Navy and a Militia. Things such as cameras and airplanes would have been anachronisms in the late 1700’s.
Arguments before Federal Courts always center around clauses within the body of The Constitution. Whether or not “healthcare” is a right has just been argued before the U.S. Supreme Court, and a decision is expected in June. The Government’s strongest argument cites the “Commerce Clause” of Article 1, Section 8.
Mr. Bruns case will be argued, (and I believe won), under the “equal protection clause” of the 14th amendment.
I don’t mean to be preaching here – it’s just that I believe the U.S. Constitution is a brilliant document that folks should become more familiar with.
no matter how you cut it.. no person should be without health care when they are sick… that said, there is no easy solution to the issue.. I’m not big on the gov’t handling anything short of a tuna sandwich pre-made… so that leaves the population to figure it out.. and we most certainly should… living with pain, regardless of the cause, or the life situation is not acceptable… private business needs to step up to the plate,,,like big pharma, and big health care institutes etc…
and don’t forget we can afford a vacation a month for Michelle and the kids along with a staff of hundreds .. oh and the dog… oh yes and then there is the rest of the gov’t….. hawaii, sound familiar… yes it would be nice to be a billionaire, but not so nice for the out of control gov’t to take even more money from the economy no matter where it comes from … wars ? good point… we could use that money, how about foreign aid , ever look at those numbers, it’s off the charts and for what ? we get literally nothing in return .. oh except for the occasional slap in the face
How about a few dollars from that two trillion dollar war account drummed up by Bush and Cheney?
Bush & Cheney have been gone for several years. Obama has wracked up more debt in less time then the terrible twosome! Oh and we are still in those wars even though Obama ran on a platform that would bring our troops home (and if you don’t think we are still in Iraq I have a great bridge to sell you in Brooklyn).
And yet, while they’ve been gone, their debt for two unfunded wars and the unfunded Medicare Part D are still with us. Amazing, huh?
Nah, all authorized by a Democratic Congress…they’ve given away our kid’s heritage.
Actually they were not authorized by a Democratic controlled congress. Bush had Republican control of the House until Jan 2007. Both wars were started before then and Medicare Part D was enacted in the summer of 2006.
Nice try.
Do you remember the show the Six Million Dollar Man starring Lee Majors? There is a new reality show that we are all cast in called the Five Trillion Dollar Man. It stars Barack Obama.
It’s going to take more than three years to sweep up the mess they left behind. The two trillion for Iraq and Afghanistan hasn’t been paid yet. The medical costs for our sick and severely disabled troops will cost trillions.
Aid to both countries will cost trillions more. Let’s face it, we’re in it for a long haul.
The bulk of the troops have been brought back from Iraq. The wind down in Afghanistan is expected to done by 2014. No one expected that everything would be squared away after we pulled out. It never will. Troops will remain behind to train the natives. Contractors will make their fortunes repairing the damage.
No matter what labels they wear – democrats and republicans alike – who approved these invasions, have only themselves to blame, and Bush and Cheney who led the way.
Driving into La Paz, Bolivia you drive through a part of town known as El Alto(the High). The buildings are decorated with lovely graffiti in Spanish and English say everything from F the USA, to burn in hell US White Devils, to USAID get out. There are other sayings but those are the popular ones. Then you drive by a very lovely metal statute about 60 feet high of Che Guevara. Then you being the decent into La Paz proper or Bajo(Low ) La Paz.
Where I am we get Bolivian television. Evo Morales is frequently on TVrailing about evil imperialists from the US and Europe or can be seen entertaining Chavez and his friend Amandmijad(not spelled correctly) on live news coverage.
When in La Paz I made a visit to our embassy there. What a lovely building. I figure that operating it is probably in the 4 million dollar or so range a month at least. The whole time I awas thinking why are we here in a country that hates us and obviously doesnt want us here?
This could be a portent of what may come if people are denied benefits in their time of need.
well in that case let’s just bring every sick person from every state and every country here to maine for free health care.
No need to be biased with our free benefits right?
If he has a “right” to free healthcare here, then by that logic doesn’t everyone else that could conceivably step foot or get a temporary residence here?
This man is sick, that’s a fact. He’s a legal permanent resident, that’s a fact. With his legal residence he has certain rights.
If he qualified for MaineCare he met criteria at one time. At the least he should be grandfathered and allowed to receive his benefit.
Your beef is that people can be poor and qualify for MaineCare. All I said is this is an example of what may come if people are thrown off MaineCare including native born residents of the U.S. and of Maine.
“I know every single one is a person with a story,” Strang-Burgess said. “Our thought was that it’s a small enough number, maybe other services will pick up their care.”
Gosh, Rep. Strang-Burgess, which services would those be? The ones that are already underpaid and/or owed huge amounts of money by the state?
So the tactic is pass the buck — and stick it to the taxpayer, who gets to pay a fortune for emergency care. Gee, thanks.
Where in the constitution does it say the government is responsible for health care? When I was a kid (admittedly a very long time ago), familys took care of their own and folks didn’t move around looking for a free ride on government handouts.
The poll question that accompanies this article asks “Did DHHS violate the constitution” I did not see one referrence to the constitution with what is said in respect to this issue. Also the legislature is the body that passed the budget which contained the language not DHHS. Once again a poorly written article and not to the point. Maybe if this were in the article it would clear the air a little: . ” All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
“Maine Equal Justice Partners and the American Civil Liberties Union of
Maine filed the suit on Bruns’ behalf, claiming that eliminating his
benefits violates the Equal Protection Clause of the United States
Constitution.” This was about twenty sentences into the article.
Disgustting
Iff this man was smart he wold go and commit a crime, go to prison, then he would get all the care he needs.
We are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles and we ….
Oh, never mind.
That poor man. All that matters is that he’s desperately ill and will die without treatment. I doubt this lawsuit will be resolved in a timely manner. Since Mr. Bruns is a German national, I wonder if he wouldn’t be better off going back there for treatment. That is if he could tolerate the long airplane ride.
There must be someone who could help Mr. Bruns with lodging arrangements (maybe he has family there), airline tickets, etc. If Mr. Bruns can’t afford the expense of going to Germany I’m sure that there are people out there who would gladly make a donation. I know I would.
Good luck to you Mr. Bruns.
Well that was a great post and then someone flagged it.
good job mr. lepage keep saving the taxpayers money in my 50 years of living in maine your one of the best govenors yet
What would happen if we had what this man is suffering? How can anyone simply wave this horrible situation away? The man needs swift attention, not scorn.
1. he can return to Germany for free medical care. 2. he was on VOM 103.9 this morning. He doesn’t speak English. If he has been in the USA for yrs and wants ME to pay for medical bills, he needs to learn English. 3. If he became a USA citizen, would he be able to get on MaineCare immediately? If so, he should stat studying.
This Constitutional claim was used in a similar case(FOOD STAMPS) denial in Washington State last year. The plaintiff—Hispanic, female, family; won at the lower level; but lost at the appellate level where the judge threw out the claim.
These groups must e’mail out their pleadings to affinity groups in other states hoping to find a judge to back their claims; I guess stretching the First Amendment FREE SPEECH protection to get away with occupying public land–another subsidy, attracted the attention of faux constitutional lawyers eager to distribute government benefits to non-citizens without specific Congressional authorization.
I can’t believe the reporter never even checked out whether this claim had ever been validated by a Federal Court or in the case of a legal alien, whether their sponsor was required to include them on their health insurance policy?
Sorry, not what I can take, it’s what will be taken, by Liberal/progressives. Big difference.
You’ve done it now! You’ve quoted a conservative article to support your position. Even if your right every liberal on here will start heaving the hate.
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No money is being saved in the long run if more class action lawsuits are filed and won.
too many comments……
The title itself is misleading, how could Maine violate the Constitution in this case when this man isn’t even a US citizen? —That’s like walking into a gym and saying they denied you the right to a healthy lifestyle because they wouldn’t let work you work out since you don’t have a membership.
And yet you would cry like a little girl and scream for action if I said the same thing about Democrats. You should be careful with your Nazi comments and comparisons to Republicans. The execution of people you dont agree with is exactly the type of thing Nazis did. It looks like you have something in common with them.
The problem here is that same one it has been for a long time. Welfare begets more welfare. We have now reached the point where people shop states and go to where they can get the most free stuff. Now if they do not get the welfare they thought they could get they sue the state!
Emergency care is expensive for people who can’t afford insurance. But, perhaps if Lepage is lucky, this guy will be dead before the lawyers get too involved.
The question here is whether the State of Maine passed an law last year which might be unconstitutional under the U.S. Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Check it out for yourselves, especially the last two sections of the final sentence. Notice the phrases, “nor deprive any person of life…” The amendment is no longer talking about just “citizens” here…
“All persons born or naturalized in the United
States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the
United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make
or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of
citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any
person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
I believe that Mr. Bruns is indeed a person, living under the jurisdiction of Maine, and the State is literally depriving him of his life. His Oncologist believes that he will die in 6-12 months without care; he will not qualify for care again for what? 7-8 months?
This is so blatantly against reason, compassion, human decency, and might I add…almost certainly unconstitutional.
Kudos to Atty. Jennifer Archer for taking this case before the Federal Court, pro bono. There is little doubt in my mind that this is a winning case. I just hope that it will be heard swiftly, before Mr. Bruns dies or is too weak to tolerate treatment.
Wow, shame on the 200+ people who liked Rocky Marshall’s inference that this dying man just scammed his way up to Fort Fairfield, willed himself to develop a rare cancer, with the certainty that he would receive world class medical treatment under MaineCare.
I am very sorry this man is ill with cancer, but we as the state of Maine can’t take care of everyone that comes to our state.. we can’t take care of the people that have work hard in their life and payed taxes to our state…I believe if this man went back to German he could get better cancer care were they have better treatments. we need to take care of the elderly and the children. esp. the elderly that have paid taxes and work hard in our state, they are the ones who build this great state.. It is a privilege to live in the United States not a right…
I am very sorry this man is ill with cancer, but we as the state of Maine can’t take care of everyone that comes to our state.. we can’t take care of the people that have work hard in their life and payed taxes to our state…I believe if this man went back to German he could get better cancer care were they have better treatments. we need to take care of the elderly and the children. esp. the elderly that have paid taxes and work hard in our state, they are the ones who build this great state.. It is a privilege to live in the United States not a right…
Ok, I guess I still have questions. I’m still wondering about this “qualified alien” status. The more I look into it the less sense this situation makes . There are many details that are missing in this and I do not understand why they were not addressed. Were they purposefully omitted? Looking at the laws and requirements surrounding this qualified alien status,I don’t see how Hans can be in this situation, and still be qualified for this qualified alien status. Something is lacking here.
So my questions are, what is missing? What was omitted? Why is Hans in this situation, here in Maine?
Compassionate neocons…….. Welcome to the let them eat cake future of health care. Oh you don’t have the money for the meds, sorry you lose next……… Mr. Cheney step right up to the front of this line sir you are a true patriot albeit a draft dodging one.
No screws “lose” as you like to spell it. You know full well what I meant, but I’ll clarify. He cannot pay for his health care. Yes, we all die. “Its” (sic)a matter of time. Why should my tax money have paid to send you to school, when the end result is someone who needs a better command of his/her own language?
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