AUGUSTA, Maine — Changes in the state budget approved last spring and now in effect include cutting MaineCare coverage for hundreds, stopping food stamps for some and, in two weeks, telling 2,500 people receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families: Your time’s up.
Also coming soon: new rules that end TANF benefits for some immigrants and a measure to drug-screen TANF recipients with drug-related felonies dating back to 1996.
With three of the five changes affecting legal noncitizens who have been in the U.S. fewer than five years, one advocate said Portland and Lewiston will be hardest hit.
The changes are expected to save the state more than $4 million per year, according to a Department of Health and Human Services spokesman.
They trace back to the budget proposed by Gov. Paul LePage and approved by the state Legislature in June.
“What was originally proposed actually would have cut a lot more than what was ultimately passed, but the cuts that did pass are still going to harm — and already have harmed — a number of people in our state,” said Robyn Merrill, a policy analyst with Maine Equal Justice Partners.
“Unfortunately,” she said, “I feel like, just in talking with people, there are a lot of people who aren’t aware these changes were made.”
The cuts:
• The first came in September when about 500 legal noncitizens who had been in the country fewer than five years received letters telling them MaineCare coverage was about to end.
Bethany Hamm, division director for DHHS policy and programs, said coverage wasn’t pulled for pregnant women or children under age 21.
“Predominantly, they’re adult males who don’t have children,” she said.
Merrill said exceptions were made for refugees and those granted asylum, both covered under federal programs.
“The two big groups that were impacted . . . [are] people with an application pending for asylum and also people who are lawful, permanent residents but they aren’t refugees and they aren’t asylees,” she said. “They often have come to be with family or they have come for a job, but they have a green card and now there’s a five-year waiting period for those folks before they qualify for MaineCare.”
Projected annual savings to the state, according to DHHS spokesman John Martins: $2.55 million.
• On Jan. 1, the state stopped taking applications for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits, formerly known as food stamps, from legal noncitizens who have been in the country fewer than five years. Exceptions include domestic violence survivors, the disabled and the elderly. The 636 people receiving benefits before Jan. 1 who would have been affected are grandfathered in, Martins said.
Projected annual savings to the state: $80,000.
• About 14,000 people in Maine receive TANF benefits, and of those, 2,500 have received benefits for 60 months or more. The latter will receive notice the third week of January that their eligibility is coming to an end.
By state statute, Martins said, they’ll receive benefits for another 120 days and can appeal for a “good cause” exemption.
Merrill said her group commissioned a study on TANF recipients and found among those families receiving benefits for 60 months or more, “almost 90 percent of them have a disability in the family, either the parent has a work-limiting disability or the child has a disability.”
“At least, the law does say if there’s a disability there, people should qualify for an extension,” she said.
Projected savings to the state: $1.25 million in fiscal 2012; $500,000 in fiscal 2013.
• A change on the horizon: limiting TANF benefits to legal noncitizens who have been in the country fewer than five years. The 140 people already receiving benefits who would have been affected will be grandfathered in, Martins said.
Projected annual savings to the state: $100,000.
• In the rule-making process: drug-screening TANF recipients who have drug-related felonies dating back to August 1996.
“We need to get a handle on the number and who they are,” Michael Frey, deputy director of the DHHS office for family independence, said in a November interview.
DHHS was working with the Maine Department of Public Safety to cross-check names.
Merrill said the fallout from a positive screen has softened from what LePage originally proposed.
“If somebody tested positive, the family would be terminated from assistance, end of story,” she said. “What ended up passing, a compromise of sorts, the person may have to submit to a drug test in order to continue getting assistance, but they could request a fair hearing if they disputed the findings of that result. If they continue to test positive for illegal drug use, they could be required, in order to get assistance, to get into a substance-abuse treatment program.”
The rules aren’t in yet; she’s hoping to see a requirement that a “reasonable, current suspicion that there’s substance abuse” triggers testing.
Projected annual savings to the state: $50,000.
Hamm said MaineCare, SNAP and TANF for legal noncitizens in the country for fewer than five years had been covered by the federal government until the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act in 1996. That next year, and the years since, Maine opted to pick up the tab, she said.
Until now.
The process of adopting the new policies directed by the budget has worked slowly through the department this fall.
“There’s two sides to the issue — some strong feelings on both sides,” Frey said. “Any changes that have an impact on people are big changes.”
Perhaps this will make it less appealing for folks to move here with the intent of taking advantage of our generous welfare system.
One can only hope…….
Same as Public and Teachers Unions. Last in .. First out. It’s the rules that democrats put in place and support. What’s the problem?
Do Your Part to Reduce Costs by Reporting Fraud in Maine
Allegations of fraud or attempted fraud involving funds, including Food Stamps,
administered by the Department of Health and Human Services should be sent to:
Fraud, Investigation and Recovery
11 State House Station
Whitten Road
Augusta, Maine 04333-0011
Phone numbers for DHHS Fraud office are:
1-207-287-2409 and 1-800-442-6003
Further questions and suspicions can also be submitted by e-mail.
Fraud.Dhhs@maine.gov
Contact the Office of the Attorney General
Phone: 207-626-8800
Mailing Address:
Office of the Attorney General
6 State House Station
Augusta, ME 04333
http://www.maine.gov/ag/contac…
Do All three, Phone, E-mail and send a Letter.
Follow-up in 30 days with a Certified letter if no response.
Send a letter Directly to the Governor’s Office, that should get their attention.
Keep a written log of actions and attempts to notify. Hold them Responsible!
Are you Paul LePage or just a broken record? You put this in every blog about DHHS. You would be surprised to learn how much you think is fraud, really isn’t!!
ANY fraud is Too much.
Contact info is a Public Service announcement.
Write down the numbers before the BDN crowd censures it.
Thank you
I’d much rather they censure you.
I know what the numbers are and even the people that work at thosenumbers. I worked in the programs for 31 years and know that the amount of fraud is a great deal less than this administration and those who hate “welfare recipients” believe. Just because you don’t like someone’s life style and life choices, doesn’t mean it’s fraud. You are the one’s putting your heads in the sand when you don’t have a clue what you are talking about and everything you say is antecdotal not fact based.
Why not and did they hit a nerve.
Sticking your head in the sand about the fraud that is rampant is just a sad reaction, but is exactly what the leftists hope you will do to help them perpetuate the lifestyle that is welfare.
Can’t be Lepage-note the key words: sacred, honor.
If they don’t like it, they could always go back to their country of origin. the poorest pan-handler in Portland is still far better off than if he was in Somalia or some other 7th world crap hole.
Over the last 5 years, more than 5 times as many people on welfare left Maine than moved in. Maine’s maximum monthly TANF benefit is the very lowest in New England. Maine’s maximum benefit for a family of three is $485/month, which is only 34% of the poverty level. ($1431/month). Even when food stamps are added, TANF families reach only 65% of the poverty level.maximum monthly TANF benefit is the very lowest in New England. Maine’s maximum benefit for a family of three is $485/month, which is only 34% of the poverty level. ($1431/month). Even when food stamps are added, TANF families reach only 65% of the poverty level.
[http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/realfacts/top_ten_tanf.htm and http://www.mejp.org/PDF/tanf_facts.pdf%5D
Yes, responses put out there by DHHS, which is part of the problem. For example, look at FAQ #9, “Mom’s boyfriend lives in the home and her kids are still receiving benefits. This is fraud.Real Facts: Only the biological or adoptive parents are legally responsible for the children’s support, per Federal law.” WHICH MEANS, in the vast majority of cases, boyfriend lives with mom, isn’t working and isn’t providing any financial assistance, but resides in public housing and eats food intended for mom and the children, without, again, providing any financial assistance. THIS SHOULD BE FRAUD, but DHHS itself acknowledges there is nothing to prevent this.
Should all poor people be forbidden by law to have roommates?
They should claim them….they dont and when they do they fill out a seperate household form stating that they cook their meals seperate…..we all know thats not true. No, if you cant support yourself dont move in with someone else and expect the state to support all of you. And if you can afford a roomate then we are giving you too much money!If you want to be independant…get a job!
Jobs are perishingly scarce these days. Four or five unemployed people looking for work, for every available job.
So, when YOU lose your job, and go bankrupt, and need assistance, this is how it could be–
1) live entirely alone
2) have a roommate, but declare their income as supplementing yours even though you’re not married and not taking their money, and lose your benefits
3) have a roommate, keep your money separate, and deal with people assuming you’re committing fraud and/or that the roomate is eating food your kids should have, though that’s not actually the case.
Why is it vital to be hard on desperately poor people, and also to give tax breaks to millionaires?
like I said before, if you are sleeping together, they are not a roommate…
There are jobs out there.
Most are of the opinion that they won’t, or don’t have to, stoop to a level to do them.
Sure, send em to McDonald’s or Wal-Mart for minimum wage. Of course they won’t get 40 hours week, or any benefits like health care and what they do earn will be a lot less than they get on assistance, but just enough to keep them off assistance. So by all means send them to bad jobs so they can lose what little they have.
If you are trying to help yourself it is a different story. When you are sitting at home on your butt not doing nothing because working at mcdonald is not a good enough job is when people have issues. If you go to work at mcdonalds, walmart or other company and are only working few hours go in when called to cover, work hard and maybe when an opening comes ask about getting them. If they see you are doing a good job and are dependable they might let you have the extra hours. When people call out often, refuse to come in if called, slack off at your job they probably are not going to offer someone more hours…
There’s two jobs for their lazy (__!__)s right there.
Bad jobs? What you are saying is that if someone has no special skills because they didn’t bother to acquire any along the way, then they don’t have to accept employment that suits their lack of skills and pays accordingly because they are better off on welfare. That’s exactly the problem!
So lets do the math. Places like Wal-Mart and McDonalds keep employees at around 30 hours per week to avoid full-time employment. Maine has a minimum wage of $7.50. 7.50 x 30 hours = 225.00 x 52 weeks = 11,700.00 before taxes. That is, for a single person, $1035.00 over the poverty level so no assistance. According to the U.S. Dept. of Housing and Urban Development, the average cost of rent in Maine in 2011 for a one bedroom apartment is $676.00. 676.00 x 12 months = $8112.00. That leaves $3578.00. Need food so $3578/52 weeks = $68.00 a week for food. Now we are at $0 in income, and since there is a light bill left to pay, bus pass to buy so they can get to work, and since we have laws against indecency maybe they might wanna think about getting some clothes. So by all means, send em to work at McDonald’s. It will certainly better their lives. My point was, until minimum wage and living wages are one in the same we are going to keep having this argument over and over. Laziness is not an issue, being able to live is. There is nothing wrong with minimum wage work, but if you can’t feed, clothe, and house a family of 3 or 4 on minimum wage, why would you risk taking the job and losing everything?
If you are not skilled or educated enough to have a job that will provide enough income to “help you” support a family, maybe you should not have one; At least until you can afford it.
For those who are motivated to work and support themselves, there is almost always work to be found. I have become unemployed 2 times in recent years due to the companies I worked for closing or being sold to a competitor. I have never yet had to rely on public assistance and have managed to land a job within 2 weeks in each instance.
It is not always easy to find work, and you may not always end up in the most desirable job. But honestly does it really matter how much you dislike your work if you are able to support your family?
The company I am working with now had to bring in migrant workers due to a lack of applicants. Often times those who did apply either wouldn’t accept the pay offered or were so lazy they were let go due to a lack of productivity. Granted it is back breaking hard work, but the pay was 11-14 an hour based on prior experience.
Your history is inspiring and commendable.
It’s also a single anecdote. Statistically, there are 4 or 5 people looking for work, for every 1 job that exists. That means that:
1) the next time you lose your job (which I hope doesn’t happen! You’ve been through a lot), you might not find another.
2) the odds are against people hunting for work in this economy, no matter what level of job they’re willing to accept.
There are few things a progressive loathes more than an anecdote – unless it’s their anecdote. Liz, why not cash out your assets and really make a difference by giving to those losing MaineCare?
It’s great to have a college education and working at a job shoveling poop in septic systems. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Thumbs up MFS.
10 years ago I was an alcoholic with 3 kids and sucking the system dry. I got sober, went back to school (worked my way through) and am self supporting. Trust me, I know how people work the system. i did it and I am tired of hearing the excuses. I made them all. I work with families who are sucking the system dry. Most of them drug addicts who stand on the methadone lines daily. Whose kids are all in special education because they are a mess. Dont tell me what you know. I know from experiences and education on all sides of the issue.
Nice try, Jersey, but your story is anecdotal and therefore does not count – according to our social justice brothers and sisters.
It has to be hard because if it isn’t, everyone would do it. The money just isn’t there for people who’ve lived like this for years! I don’t think people mind helping out people who need temporary help…but I think we need to come to a concensus on what the word “temporary” means.
Exactly! What we seem to have developed is a permanent Welfare Class, and a host of apologists for their inertia. The point the Dems are missing is that we DO realize that government produces no wealth. Any wealth the government doles out to welfare types is wealth the government first screwed out of our hides. We are tired of that. So tired. What I cannot understand is why – if there is all this compelling compassion floating about – don’t the Dems dig deep into their OWN pockets and give THEIR money away? Not only is direct charity more cost efficient and directed, it has the advantage of not enslaving part of the population in order to give alms to the other part. Slavery, you say? Yup. When you make a body work, then confiscate their compensation and take it for your own purposes, that amounts to slavery. To sort of paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, “Socialism works until you run out of other peoples’ money.”
And wahat about the majority who have jobs but just don’t make a living wage?
I think people receiving financial assistance from the state should be forbidden to have freeloading boyfriends living with them and eating the food the state provides for the children in the home, yes!
Your comment, “Should all poor people be forbidden by law to have roommates?” highlights EXACTLY why taxpayers are fed up and why State and Federal governments will never be able to get freeloaders out of the system and why our government should NOT be in the charitable donations business.
thats not what xxskier just wrote. You can’t just twist words like that.
The roommate should NOT be eating food and living in a place paid for by federal/state funds where the sole purpose of those funds is to support the children.
yes if they are sleeping together …
Do you understand that this means that if and when YOU lose your job and go into bankruptcy, and need assistance, that YOU would be forbidden by law to have a roommate?
If you lose your job there is unemployment. There were less people starving and homeless before the welfare system began.
If they can’t afford them, YES.
if they are sleeping together …. and not planning on getting married…… yes.. because normally people would get married and not just shack up.. Just shacking up insures the benefits keep coming.. Married means a stop in the beni’s and if its a house that we are paying for the rent the food … certainly shaking up should be off limits.. because he or she is benefiting from the state.. very simple.. Alllll these problem could be avoided if proper family planning and basic values are in place from the start..and we shouldnt need programs to instill this .. it should be common sense.. If you have to be told to have children when you can afford it and told how to make a relationship works and told how not to have children .. you really shouldnt have children in the first place .. You wont make much of a parent…
Taking the Public’s dollar should come with strings attached. If people don’t like the strings, they are free to work for their own money.
actually marriage is no longer the norm! although a few old tards like myself believe in marriage (a man and a woman) far fewer people do it anymore. you know young people today. “Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free” !
Are you referring to shack ups? or a real roommate? another welfare recipient sharing would be OK I think…but not anything else…
According to these people, Liz, they shouldn’t be allowed to have lives. Hope none of them are ever there!!
You continually miss the point: We are tired of, in effect, subsidizing other peoples’ life styles. I see women on some form or other of public assistance having child after child, and we are paying for it all. Not fair to US. Why can a girl have her second and third baby on our nickel and we don’t get a say? She is actually unilaterally choosing to direct more public funds to her own ends, and there is no VETO authority. If we complain, we are “heartless” or “uninformed” or “racist” or whatever other epithet comes to hand. Tired of it.
Thats not bad money when the rent is paid, your food is paid, your prescriptions are paid, your daycare is paid.
Look at the data–Maine’s benefits are LOWER than those of other states. People are NOT flocking to Maine for the benefits. That’s just a conservative talking point they use to convince people to slash the social safety net. In truth, more desperately poor people are leaving Maine than arriving here.
You’re just trying to give us hope.
Cut it out.
A few *Forgotten Facts* to them *Dems.* Read it and WHINE !!! ;<) Google Mr. Baldacci.
In 2004, Baldacci signed executive order 13 FY 04/05 titled "An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents", which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order, his political opponents have labeled Maine a "sanctuary state" for illegal immigrants.
Following info courtesy of, The Kennebec Journal…October 10, 2010
Maine’s welfare system offers one of the most generous benefits packages in the nation.
Almost 30 percent of our population receives some form of benefit. Between 2003 and 2010, Maine’s welfare enrollment grew 70 percent (from 226,000 to 381,000), according to a report from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
Is that really “Maine, the way life should be?”
Maine ranks second in the nation in all three major welfare programs: Food stamps, cash public assistance (TANF) and in Medicaid enrollment as a percent of total population, according to the Maine Heritage Policy Center
Gov. John Baldacci’s executive order in 2004 effectively turned Maine into a sanctuary state. According to the last census in 2000, Maine’s population of illegal immigrants ranged in the thousands.
How many may be currently accessing our tax funded welfare system?
How can we possibly know? Maine employees are prohibited from inquiring about immigration status.
A residency requirement could save our state hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in benefits to illegal immigrants as well as immigrants who aren’t qualified to receive benefits under the federal umbrella
Recovery begins one step at a time. Let’s take our first step toward protecting Maine people by empowering Maine employers to ask for immigration status before asking, “What can we give you?”
And you would believe the MaineHeritage Policy Center why!!!! They lie and twist figures just like LePage does. Ever wonder why the can’t justify the numbers they are requesting for DHHS cuts. You can’t provide proof of something when you make it up!!! The MHPC says on their site that I will receive $1.3 million in retirement benefits. My children are happy about that news since in means I only have to live 250 more years to collect it all!!
Just deal with the facts lady, nothing else, ok ? Don’t get your panties in a bunch. I presented a fact how BALDarchie ramroded a bill thru that explicitly states…
“An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents”, which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order,his political cronies have created Maine as a “sanctuary state” for illegal immigrants.
Read it again ! He really did this to US……… the Great state of Maine. What a self righteous egotistical tool of the USA hating Democratic backroom dealing thugs.
Now it’s the Good Guys turn… to repair what “Baldy” did to totally bring our fine state crumbling down to our fiscal nightmare on Capital hill.
Aren’t you Dems just so proud of what your puppet did to us while he lives high on the hog with no cares at all.
Finally, the topper… this will really make you laugh…….
Baldacci is Roman Catholic & is a first cousin once removed of former Maine senator and majority leader George J. Mitchell.
Now that explaines everything ! Pharisaicalness runs in the family blood.
You are so right. When I worked in the programs, very few people came to Maine for the benefits. We were required to keep track and the number was very small. If they moved back it was usually because they had a crisis and this was where family was, not for the “generous” benefits!!
Yes, what luxury indeed. Give it a whirl sometime, let us know how luxurious it feels.
DOH, they aren’t worried about luxury, only the opportunity to not work.
To quote your hero, “BS!”
wow they only get 65% freebies out of taxpayers pockets for free, adn do not have to do a single thing except cash the checks.
Good, then where are they getting the money for all those cats and dogs???? I know carpentry and house cleaning and babysitting. Not to mention all the kids they keep having. Everytime I look, oops, she is pregnant again. They keep saying its an accident. I’ve informed them.
You seem to be a good stat person. How many SNAP recipients are methadone addicts that also receive other taxpayer-funded services like sec 8 housing and the like?
A few *Forgotten Facts* to them *Dems.* Read it and WHINE !!! ;<) Google Mr. Baldacci.
In 2004, Baldacci signed executive order 13 FY 04/05 titled "An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents", which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order, his political opponents have labeled Maine a "sanctuary state" for illegal immigrants.
Following info courtesy of, The Kennebec Journal…October 10, 2010
Maine’s welfare system offers one of the most generous benefits packages in the nation.
Almost 30 percent of our population receives some form of benefit. Between 2003 and 2010, Maine’s welfare enrollment grew 70 percent (from 226,000 to 381,000), according to a report from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
Is that really “Maine, the way life should be?”
Maine ranks second in the nation in all three major welfare programs: Food stamps, cash public assistance (TANF) and in Medicaid enrollment as a percent of total population, according to the Maine Heritage Policy Center
Gov. John Baldacci’s executive order in 2004 effectively turned Maine into a sanctuary state. According to the last census in 2000, Maine’s population of illegal immigrants ranged in the thousands.
How many may be currently accessing our tax funded welfare system? How can we possibly know? Maine employees are prohibited from inquiring about immigration status.
A residency requirement could save our state hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in benefits to illegal immigrants as well as immigrants who aren’t qualified to receive benefits under the federal umbrella
Recovery begins one step at a time. Let’s take our first step toward protecting Maine people by empowering Maine employers to ask for immigration status before asking, “What can we give you?”
I love your way of thinking!
This country was found by imagrants. People looking for the same freedom these people are. The difference is, our fathers came with the means to suport themselves and survive. They didnt come this the hand out, and pockets inside out waiting for a handout.
We need to get back to being pridful people. Prideful for the RIGHT reasons.
I dont know if we ever can?
they also didn’t demand to have all of the toys and modern devices that people think they need today. they also learned english. Nothing wrong with learning the main language of your adopted country and still keeping the old customs as well. They were just happy to be here in America. Now for many who come here they think that everything needs to be provided.
A few *Forgotten Facts* to them *Dems.* Read it and WHINE !!! ;<) Google Mr. Baldacci.
In 2004, Baldacci signed executive order 13 FY 04/05 titled "An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents", which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order, his political opponents have labeled Maine a "sanctuary state" for illegal immigrants.
Following info courtesy of, The Kennebec Journal…October 10, 2010
Maine’s welfare system offers one of the most generous benefits packages in the nation.
Almost 30 percent of our population receives some form of benefit. Between 2003 and 2010, Maine’s welfare enrollment grew 70 percent (from 226,000 to 381,000), according to a report from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
Is that really “Maine, the way life should be?”
Maine ranks second in the nation in all three major welfare programs: Food stamps, cash public assistance (TANF) and in Medicaid enrollment as a percent of total population, according to the Maine Heritage Policy Center
Gov. John Baldacci’s executive order in 2004 effectively turned Maine into a sanctuary state. According to the last census in 2000, Maine’s population of illegal immigrants ranged in the thousands.
How many may be currently accessing our tax funded welfare system? How can we possibly know? Maine employees are prohibited from inquiring about immigration status.
A residency requirement could save our state hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in benefits to illegal immigrants as well as immigrants who aren’t qualified to receive benefits under the federal umbrella
Recovery begins one step at a time. Let’s take our first step toward protecting Maine people by empowering Maine employers to ask for immigration status before asking, “What can we give you?”
Ok, no one likes to be taken advantage of but these cuts actually add up to about $4.00 per person, per year when measured against the population of the state. There is no doubt some fraud and waste in the system but some truly needy will suffer for this. I am willing to pony up the extra $16.00 from my household to make sure that the truly needy get what they need.
World to end tommorow at noon-Maine DHHS, women and children hardest hit.
Wrong headline lak. Women and Children and Elderly afforded more aid due to removing healthy adult men, many who are illegal non citizens, who should be out fending for themselves.
They should test recipients for cigarettes too. If they can afford to throw money away on those then they are richer than most Mainers and shouldn’t need any help.
All people that drive cars, trucks, atv’s ect should be tested for drugs at any time .
Commercial truck drivers ARE.
and they should be drug tested. I had to be drug tested to take my job, they should be drug tested to take my money…
If there was one shred of oversight applied to half the welfare scammers
that are looking to defraud the state , this might not be going on.
A very good reason for immigration and welfare reform.
Good answer nhoj
So the moral of this story is that legal non-citizens will no longer be freeloading off the taxpayers of Maine. Sounds like a good start to me., but only a start.
Some long overdue changes. Hope this inspires more of them. And that it stops asylum seekers from comming here. In fact, I wonder why Maine would give asylum and benefits to men without children, when there are plenty with who may need that assistance? A relevent question. And another is, what will happen to those asylum seekers that live in the Portland and Lewiston area now? Will the asylum pipeline to Maine dry up, or will they continue to be allowed to apply for asylum here, without any means to take care of themselves?
Good!
Thank you Gov Lepage for FINALLY starting the process of weaning these people off the dole.
It’s time for these folks to be able to stand up on their own two feet and share in the pride of knowing that they are not dependant on anyone else.
Where are all the jobs that will provide those families the $50k a year they need just to be able to barely get by?
If you think that $50K a year is what is required for a “living wage,” then you are living high on the hog!!
That is what a family of 4 need to make to pay for just the basics without any assistance at all…own rent/mortgage, health insurance, food, utilities, just the basics. It was cited in this very paper.
Taken minutes ago from Bangor Daily News classified: BANGOR–2 BR, $650, includes heat and hot water. that takes care of housing, heat, and hot water. My electric bill is $38 dollars a month, and I fed a family of 5 VERY WELL on $250 a month. ( But then again, unlike many receiving assistance, I didn’t drink, smoke, eat lobster, prime cuts of meat, or buy soda.)
So, lLet’s see, that’s a total of $11,256 for those basic expenses. One person working a 40 hour a week job at $8.50/hr will earn $17,680. So much for needing $50K a year for a family of 4.
I don’t know where the heck you live, but I haven’t seen a $38 electric bill in over 20 years. I have a 2BR right now and our electric is over $100 a month. Also, anything less than around $800 a month is going to be in a neighborhood filled with drug activity and pedophiles. Not very palatable for raising children. Also…a family of 4 will most likely need a 3 bedroom, not a 2 bedroom…unless their children are the same gender. That raises it up to at least $1000 a month for rent and electric is likely closer to $200 a month.
Your figures for income didn’t include taxes taken out. That is the gross amount you list, not the net amount. Even as a single mother, I can’t recall having less than roughly 8% of my pay check being taken out. That is barely $1200 a month net income. At least $900 of that goes to housing. That leaves $300 a month for food, insurance, transportation costs. Without Mainecare that family would not have medical coverage and without some foodstamps they likely wouldn’t be able to eat.
Some immigrants that move here have 8 – 10 people living in a home like you have.
Point being that they will do what is required to get ahead.
You could buy a small house and have a mortgage less than 900 a month. I have a 125,000 mortgage for 15 years and pay only 965 a month. You can get a nice home for less than that, go longer on the mortgage and do it all without my hard earned money.
My monthly electric bill–38$ a month, right now. We turn off lights, we don’t run computers night and day, and use low-e light bulbs. Frugality. A concept you and other might benefit from.
I drive by homes in my community that I know get assistance and guess what? Every single light on in every room is on.
My electric bill runs around $40. I don’t turn lights on until it gets dark and then only in the room that I am in. I also hang my clothes on a drying wrack instead of drying them. My electric bill used to run me around $70-80 a month until I began conservation methods.
Taken from this very paper – not from the classified – http://mattw.bangordailynews.com/2012/01/04/business/whats-a-livable-wage-in-maine/
“If you’re a single adult, you need to make $11.02 an hour in order to
cover your basic annual expenses of $22,925 a year. That’s on average,
statewide. It’s lowest in Aroostook ($9.90), and highest in the Portland
metro area ( $12.53).
If your family consists of two adults and two children, each adult would have to earn $13.35 an hour to cover expenses of $49,491, as a statewide average.
It makes the calculations based on renters, too, not home owners.
And the estimations are for folks living a frugal life. For example,
when looking at food, the methodology uses federal stats that “reflect
the estimated cost of a balanced diet and do not include allowances for
take-out, fast food or restaurant meals; the plans reflect what it costs
to adequately meet nutritional needs, not typical consumer behavior,”
the report said.
Similarly, when calculating transportation costs, the authors
estimate that 30 percent of typical household travel is social and
recreational, “which is excluded from the livable wage transportation
calculation.””
Oh – and you failed to include child care in there, which for a family with two young children, would be about $20,000/year. You would need child care for both adults to work 40 hours/week.
So…….don’t have children until you can afford them.
Kind of goes against the conservatives’ whole “anti-family planning” stance, doesn’t that?
If you are trying to catagorize me to make a point, you failed.
Actually, your point is meaningless and I thought about not responding at all but decided to stoop to your level and respond with that.
I was responding to xxskier who wrote about how easy it would be to raise a family of 4 (that includes 2 children) on a $17k salary. I was just explaining that in his very scientific calculations, he missed out on the child care cost – which is huge -and hurts even people who make a good amount of money.
It is impossible to work 40 hours a week for 2 people and only make 17,000. At minimum wage it is 34,000 after taxes.
Oh sorry – I was just using xxskier’s example. So $34k a year (which is gross – money is taken out of that, but okay, let’s go with it). Take out $20k for childcare, the incredibly low number xxskier provided of $11256 for housing, heat, and food, and then they’re practically rolling in the dough with $2,744 extra for the year. That is, as long as they decide not to have health insurance and have a remarkably healthy family, they don’t have a car or a phone, and they never turn on their lights. Perfect.
No 34,000 is after taxes. Childcare assistance is not being cut. So tell me, why, at 33,850 a year as a professional, am I responsible to pay into welfare for your lazy arse. I do just fine and support 3 daughters very well. It is called not living beyond your means. When mine were young, i worked from home as a daycare provider. It isnt my job to support you or anyone else.
My entrance to this thread was not even about welfare or social service systems. It was about the cost of living and how much it costs to survive with a family of four (and, specifically, that a poster did not include child care as a cost – and I am always amazed at how much it costs and wonder how even moderate income people afford it).
I’m glad you are able to raise your three daughters very well on your professional salary. Really, that’s great. Based on your last sentence, it appears you’re teaching them excellent values as well. And, if someday, you’re broken down on the side of the road, I would still pull over to help you.
As would I.
Im not sure you need to be told by someone that you should wait till you can afford it to have children.. Or how to not have children.. I mean seriously.. If you dont already know these things.. should you be having kids of your own?… I see it over and over again.. Young people having kids.. THEN getting married THEN trying to find a job.. and in the mean time.. we are paying their way.. no one paid my way.. or my kids.. I knew what things cost and I planned accordingly .. yeah I was 30 before my first child was born.. but.. dam it .. no one has bought a single thing for her other than ME…. I m with my wife who I meat when I was 15 … and Im not the smartest guy in the room.. but common sense is really all you need.. waiting for a check to come in isnt a way of life.. especially since those checks come from working people who dont know any other way but to work and pay for their own way and luckily so.. otherwise there would be many people out there with an empty mailbox come the first of the month
First, I don’t think that a couple has to make a certain income in order to have children. You’re poor – you die childless. I do think the gap between minimum wage and livable wage is sickening. The fact that someone working 40 hours a week cannot care for his or her family without support is incredible but it happens because minimum wage is so below a livable wage. Imagine if we had a higher mininum wage, there would be less need for support, less tax dollars to go to hard working Mainers – why? Because the corporations would be paying them better, providing health insurance, and hey, even child care. A dream, I know.
Second, by family planning, I didn’t mean people needed someone to tell them how not to have children (although I would think that may actually help more for our teenagers than abstinence-only education). I meant people needed access to tools to actually help them not have children – such as access to reliable birth control – something that is not as readily accessible as you would think – especially in rural Maine.
I dont think you need to make a certain income either.. What I do think is that… You wait until you can afford to have children.. It may not be today or tomorrow . but being a future good parent knows what isnt worth waiting for isnt worth having….. I dont think you should just have children when you know full well you cant afford it because when you do that you put your responsibility on me without me having a say… then when the system isnt working like NOW and cuts have to be made.. THEN its a problem then all of a sudden attention has been gotten.. everyone whines .. oooo what do we do now… my answer is dont put yourself in this position in the first place….life is about choices.. choose wisely … ..second.. Dont have sex until you work that out.. Someones sex life and habits shouldnt be my problem to make available.. I bought my own rubbers.. they are 5 bucks for three if you cant come up with that may I suggest a cold shower..
But you say below that your parents had you when they were very poor – and had to use the system at times. Were they not good parents then? Did your parents put their responsibility for you on my parents?
Wow.
I actually had some respect for your posts until I read that. Now all I can see is complete hypocrite. It was fine for your family to have kids while poor and use the system. But not good for anyone else now that you pay taxes. Very disappointing.
No I didnt say that they had me when they were poor.. They both worked my constantly .. They worked for a fish factory … sometimes in the winter the boats didnt come in with fish.. and they were forced to the system.. and when they did they got very little… THATS WHAT THE SYSTEM IS FOR… not a way of life
and what they did reflects nothing on my opinion .. I may or may not agree with things that someone else has done.. my parents included… . But they certainly were NOT freeloaders and did not plan a family on someone elses dollar.. im positive they paid in much more than they ever recieved..and when I say they turned to the system I meant unemployment.. after reviewing that.. Im not sure that is part of the DHS services in first place.
Who’s to say other poor parents with children are not like your parents then (not freeloaders, paid into the system more than they received, on it temporarily during particularly trying times, etc.)? For someone who grew up in your situation, I would think you would know better than to jump to conclusions about poor people and make a blanket statement that poor people shouldn’t have children.
Im most certainly NOT … But I will stand by my original statement.. People who cant afford to have kids.. shouldnt… you cant buy what you cant afford.. when you do that with a car.. they come and get it.. when you do it with kids we will send you a check… I dont care who has kids.. I just want to be left holding the bag when you cant afford it.. As long as it dosnt involve me go fourth and be fruitful.. I dont give a crap.. But when you are having kids knowing full well or not caring that you cant afford it .. then thats where i get upset.. you are making decisions for every struggling working mainer… You are endangering benefits for people who truly need it.. and when the bennys stop.. then you dont have anyone to blame but yourself and putting your child in danger as well. This is NOT a socialist nation .. well it wasnt 2 or three years ago.. we may be headed for that with your way of thinking.. as far as i know it was a capitalist nation.. the chance is here.. up to you what you do with that chance..
What if someone could afford to have children and then through no fault of their own could no longer provide for them. What are they supposed to do then, put them up for adoption or ask for help!!
Not to be nitpicky – but your parents worked at a fish factory and sometimes in the winter boats didn’t come in with fish so they were automatically laid off and went on unemployment and then would be rehired at the factory later on when boats came back in? I think there may have been some other kind of assistance, but really it doesn’t matter. I’m sure it was a while ago and who knows what kind of information you received from your parents. I would just consider that you grew up in a poor family – and likely are not poor now. You are a success. You should treat other children in poor families as the potential for success as well – and not some humans who never should have been due to the income of their parents.
Now there are NO fish factories…. at all.
With respect, please explain what a livable wage is and how wages are driven by anything other than market forces? Are you suggesting that the government enact laws mandating “livable” wages beyond the minimum wage? Sounds like the dictatorship of the proletariat, doesn’t it?
I actually mentioned this elsewhere in the post but her it is below. Do you consider minimum wage the dictatorship of the proletariat, than I would assume you would consider raising the minimum wage to the livable wage the same. And so I would assume you would prefer your tax dollars going to pay the working poor rather than the businesses that employ them. Here is the info:
– http://mattw.bangordailynews.c…
“If you’re a single adult, you need to make $11.02 an hour in order to
cover your basic annual expenses of $22,925 a year. That’s on average,
statewide. It’s lowest in Aroostook ($9.90), and highest in the Portland
metro area ( $12.53).
If
your family consists of two adults and two children, each adult would
have to earn $13.35 an hour to cover expenses of $49,491, as a statewide
average.
It makes the calculations based on renters, too, not home owners.
And the estimations are for folks living a frugal life. For example,
when looking at food, the methodology uses federal stats that “reflect
the estimated cost of a balanced diet and do not include allowances for
take-out, fast food or restaurant meals; the plans reflect what it costs
to adequately meet nutritional needs, not typical consumer behavior,”
the report said.
Similarly, when calculating transportation costs, the authors
estimate that 30 percent of typical household travel is social and
recreational, “which is excluded from the livable wage transportation
calculation.””
Been working so this reply is a little late – so you’re saying that we should force businesses to raise wages to say $50k/yr for a family of 4? How is that not socialism? And how will you deal with a business that says “no”? Or simply closes it’s doors? What incentive would there be to further one’s education if entry level jobs paid your “livable” wage?
Oh sure, a higher minimum wage is the answer. Then the corporations would be paying these people more, plus, in your dream, health insurance and child care too. Then there would be less need for public support. But what if minimum wage jobs tend to go to unproductive workers and workers without good job skills, so that those workers can at least have jobs? And what if a higher minimum wage results in lower profits – or even losses – for corporations so that they are forced to move their operations to states and countries where labor is more affordable?
As far as I’m concerned anybody can have as many kids as they want.
As long as they can afford to raise them by their OWN hard work, but not mine.
And couples who already have children, and lose their jobs, and need assistance, should do what? (On another Comments page, a conservative who wants government out of people’s lives suggested that the children of poor people should be forcibly removed from their parents and placed in foster care.)
The people who are loosing their jobs now is a different story.. thats originally what the system was set up for.. working people that are willing to work and loosing jobs due to a bad economy or something beyond their control.. Im talking the ones that are life time recipients.. ones that were on the system before our current crises..ones that will be on the system after the crises is over. and we all know they exist.. Its not like big foot.. We have seen these people..we all know these people ourselves..I manage rentals….I see it alllll the time.. Same m.o. single mom.. shacked up with a boyfriend.. dead beat dad … section 8 …. never leave the house.. Dish network instantly … constantly filling out papers for free stuff.. Kids not taken care of because the misappropriation on our money.. Goes to the boyfriend.. or cigs… cant even take the trash to the FREE dumpster.. … cant take the beer cans out of the drive way.. etc etc etc.. Ive seen it SOOOOO many times.. its certainly time to shake it up a lil.. maybe get them off the couch and looking for something to do..
We’re being asked to OK the destruction of the social safety net in America. The rationale is that destroying it will force no-gooders to get to work. The problem is that if we agree to destroy it, there will be NOhelp available when you and I have our own time of need.
The term for this is cutting off your own nose to spite someone else’s face.
I understand where you are coming from .. I grew uo very poor and my parents have had to turn to the system on occasion.. It is a slippery slope… But as much abuse of the system that is out there we can not continue on this path .. It ill break us all.. There are more of them than there are of us.. and we need to find someway to weed the abusers out.. We have to do SOMETHING.. otherwise it will fail for everyone.. its a risk.. yes.. but can we afford not to try it .. I dont think so.. Atleast tho not popular our governor is targeting the abusers.. In the past it has been the people who can not speak for themselves who were targeted.. Something needs to be done.. win loose or draw.. Time to stop giving it without strings…
You grew up very poor and your parents had to turn to the system occasionally? Can I ask if you believe your parents shouldn’t have had you then? Perhaps they should have waited until they could have afforded you.
as I previously stated.. The system I was referring to was unemployment.. My error is that that is not part of the system we were discussing.. I apologize for not having my programs straight
and honestly .. we cant.. when your 250 million short.. .. thats it.. we cant give whats not there.. You cant pay a hundred dollar bill when your in the hole 100 bucks.. Simple .. anyone that has a check book understands that
This is why they pay into unemployment.
The biggest contributor to the destruction of the fabric of our society and to the family (as we know it) is the social programs which we have taken to the Nth degree. If my kids were married with kids and had financial problems and needed assistance, I WOULD TAKE THEM IN AND GIVE THEM A HAND! That’s the purpose of families! Since when did we institute government to act “in locus parentis?”
With today’s programs, nobody needs to act halfway decent to their mom or dad or grandparents because the government will give them a place, food, and money. However, if the safety net REALLY WAS family, which it should be, a whole lot of young people would act a whole lot better to their parents and relatives.
You are probably an excellent parent. I think my husband and I were/are good parents, too (now we’re grandparents).
Sadly, not everyone was blessed with decent parents, or parents that have the resources to help them. Some parents are people you would NOT want anyone to live with, not even a cat or dog. For many people, the safety net simply cannot be family, though it would be so in an ideal society.
now thats common sense that seems to have been lost … Very simple .. oooooo what issues could be avoided…
If both adults are working 40 hours a week one should get a job on second shift to remove the childcare need. If you couldn’t afford your kids you should have waited to have them. It isnt my responsibility to support them.
Totally. And that parent who’s working the second shift should really get a job as a cab driver or a factory worker – or anywhere where he or she can totally take advantage of being up all day taking care of the kids – and then up all night working. That’s the perfect solution!
You and people like you are what is wrong with this country. CNA, CMA, and any other nursing facility job is available from 3 to 11. You can sleep from 1130 until the kids get up in the morning. Why is it my issue if you cant lose a little sleep? Myself and my spouse did it for years and we survived. Put on your big girl panties and get over it.
Oh. Okay. so, forgetting that one parent would have to come up with money – and time – to go to nursing school to get that awesome schedule, what is the parent on for that first shift? I don’t know many day jobs that end at 2:30. I doubt you and your spouse split shifts like that for years. But really, I don’t care.
It would be your issue if the person who had no sleep fell asleep on the way to or from work and crashed into you, I suppose. Or, working in the nursing facility, was too groggy and made a mistake on one of your parents, I suppose.
And yes, I am what’s wrong with this country. I am part of the group that actually thinks of others besides myself. I don’t constantly ask “what’s in it for me?” or “Why is my issue?” I am not constantly concerned about my taxes, I’m concerned about my community. Every post I write does not center around me – like you and your friends do. I actually think about the bigger picture, the bigger community and the world. I actually care about others than myself and my pockets. Yes, I work hard and so does my husband, but I don’t think that just because I work hard means I have somehow absolved myself from caring about anyone I’m not related to, especially people who work just as hard – and quite possibly harder – but are still poor. It’s too bad we don’t have more self-centered, self-serving, myopic people like you in our country. You’re exactly what this country needs. “Ask only what the country can do for you.”
An excellent comment!
CNA certification is offered through the public school system for free during high school. I help my fellow people everyday. I work hard. I will not pay into a government led system of welfare. Churches and community members should help their communities. Government led welfare is giving people a license to be lazy. Stop making excuses. I did it and my parents did it and everyone slept fine. My spouse worked nights and slept days, i worked second shift and cared for our 3 daughters during the day. He fed them, put them to bed around 8 or 9 and when i got home he went to work. On the weekends we took turns. but we fended for ourselves and if we hit on hard times our family was there.
Your concern for your community (and apparently the world) seems to center around forcing others to pay for your vision of the way you believe the community should be. If you really and truly care as much as you say that you do, why not cash out and give everything but what you and your husband need to eke out a basic existence. Your excess wealth could be used to help the community. The rest of us will continue to assist through the taxes we pay.
See above. We did it without daycare.
How saintly you are! Congratulations! When you say–past tense–‘fed”–how long ago was that? And how old were the children at that time? And did that count making lunches for school?
Very recent, you and other posters feel that poverty is a bottom line, when poverty is in fact a state of mind.
We ate well, one of us worked two jobs so no daycare, only one car, lots of book reading, no tv, camping as a vacation, lots of beans and rice and oatmeal, lots of music in the home but not DVDs and CDs.
But whatever I write will be nay-sayed by all your liberals anyway. “It can’t be done on less that $50K a year.” What utter crap.
What are these people doing to acquire the skill sets they need to prosper?
Making friends at DHHS would be my guess!
not sure what world you are from, but 50k a year is the gravy train…not just getting by
Gravy train! Funny. Not if you’re working hard for that money, which, believe me, we are.
I work hard for my money also, but I can tell you that 50,000.00 is more than enough to live very comfortably in the state of Maine kids or no kids…
It’s not a gravy train. That’s what I’m saying. And if you’re saying $50,000 for a family of four…I’m not advocating put them on welfare, but you are not “very comfortable.” Somewhat comfortable, maybe. As long as your car doesn’t need expensive repairs, the furnace doesn’t go on the blink, and the water heater doesn’t spring a leak.
Oh BS I supported a family of 5 for under 20,000. 50 is way too much. Dont live beyond your means. and if you do, dont expect money from me.
LePage is trying to demolish all assistance to desperately poor people, but is not adding jobs. So when YOU get laid off, you will have neither jobs nor aid.
I will NEVER get laid off.(for long)
I will ALWAYS find a way to support myself and my family.
There are four or five people looking for work, for every available job. You might not be able to find another job and support your family if you lose your current job.
If you use your current state of denial as a reason to destroy the social safety net, it will not be there when YOU need it.
Then we will receive unemployment when that happens until a new job is found. NOT be living off the welfare system. Clearly you must be on assistance because you’ve ranted on and on about LePage trying to ‘demolish ALL assistance for desperately poor people.’ LePage is doing what everyone who is working in this states wants to be done, getting people off assistance who are unwilling to help change their own situation and better their lives. LePage is targeting the people who shouldn’t be on assistance like noncitizen and single people with no children who are capable of working. Nowhere does it states it will be taking benefits away from the children or families with children. The new restrictions are targeted at people at 18-65 with no children, who are not disabled. And per the article above, clearly people have been getting TOO much assistance if they are receiving TANF for 60 month (that arent disabled or have a child with a diability)!! No one has a problem helping those who truly need the help but people are fed up with the ‘welfare lifestyle’ some people have become accustomed to and feel entitled that the rest of the population make up for their bad choices for years and years to come.
I wouldn’t assume that noparforme will ever need a handout.
I will NEVER get laid off.(for long)
I will ALWAYS find a way to support myself and my family
when are u socialists going to get over teh fact you LOST the election, and a new proper order of government is in place?
Read the paper. 800,000 new jobs were created unemployment is at its lowest sine 2009. Get a job!
Sounds Good, now the State really needs to start cutting!
I know how to save 2 BILLION— or are conservatives olny worry about people on welfare and like to give business a pass when they dont uphold their part of the bargain, or should we just give business money — just because
The really, really bad news is that the $2 billion-plus we give away in tax breaks to businesses in Maine has not improved our business climate and has not created jobs. We have given away the store with little or nothing to show for it. And we lost 4,500 net jobs in 2010″.
the rest of the story
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/opinion/columnists/do-businesses-use-their-tax-breaks-to-create-save-jobs-in-maine__2012-01-05.html
I recall President Obama saying that because of his “stimulus” that millions of jobs would have been lost without it. A good portion of that stimulus was tax cuts/credits. Are you calling him a liar?
If we use that logic and apply it to this $2 billion how much worse off would Maine’s economy be?
Moral dilemma?
not a bit , unlike conservatives, i have morals when it comes to cutting money for people and giving it to business. I’m calling anyone that says giving 2 billion to business in Maine accomplished anything a liar– hows the shoe fit?
as the man says , I’ll believe corporations are people when the state of Texas executes one
Despite your feelings to the contrary (and that’s all they are is “feelings”) tax cuts do create jobs and anyone who tells you different is lying. Even Obama recognizes that. It is one of the few non-regulatory things that government can do to generate private business investment that does generate jobs. Besides where does the tax revenue come from?
I am not sure what your second comment has to do with your first. (Non-sequitur) But executions of business happens all the time. 56,262 business executions in 2010.
wrong , better do some more research about the value of tax cuts for the wealthy and business.
from Forbes- hardly a liberal rag ”
“It’s a mainstay of conservative orthodoxy that tax cuts create jobs. In fact, the complexity of the tax code does create jobs for high-priced tax attorneys and accountants. But do tax cuts create “real” jobs?
The answer appears to be no for companies big and small. After all, U.S. public companies pay well-below the official 35% tax rate while 13.5 million American workers search unsuccessfully for jobs And start ups tell me that tax cuts don’t affect whether they’ll create new jobs. In short, the tax cut rhetoric, while effective politics, is lousy economics”
demand creates jobs and with the wealth concentration growing all the time, there is less and less demand
“Wealth concentration” is not the problem. While Bill Gates & Steve Jobs & Larry Ellison were “concentrating” their own personal wealth they created hundreds of thousands of jobs and helped other create their own wealth.
What the problem is that wealth has been destroyed for the middle class (not concentrated upward). They value of a persons house declined where most people feel their wealth lies. That value did not suddenly transfer into some rich persons account.
You are correct about demand… but any upward trend in a regular business cycle starts when one business demands goods from another business. Then the second business hires people to fill that demand. The first business grows more efficient as a result of that purchase and hires more people. That is a normal business cycle.
I read your Forbes article at the time and I can’t recall the date to find it again Please include it if you care to respond. My recollection is that the quote you pasted is a bit out of context.
wealth concentration is the problem
just how big a percentage of the wealth of this country do you think its acceptable for the top 20% to have ? 70% 80%?
Wall Street profits up 720% Unemployment rate up 102% American’s home equity down 35% In 1979 average CEO made 25-40 times what average worker made. They now make 250-400 times as much. Since 1950, federal payroll tax revenue went from 10% of the total, to over 40% Corporate effective tax rate went from about 25% to about 8% of total federal tax revenue Average loss/gain in income per household from 1979 to 2005 top 1% + $597,241 more next 4% + $29,8985 more next4% + $4,912 more next 10% – $3,733 less next 20% – $8,598 less next 20% – $10,100 less next 20% – $8,582 less bottom 20% – $5,623 less Normalized to 1979, the top 1% have seen their share of America’s income more than double. The bottom 90% have seen their portion shrink Since 1990: US corporate profits: +200% corporate employee compensation: +20% median family income: +2% Since 2000: US corporate profits: +80% corporate employee compensation: +8% median family income: -5% (All figures are inflation-adjusted.) Source: Sacramento Bee
Ok but what does it mean?
How do you interpret that information? For me to understand your point I need your perspective. Does demographics play a role? Did the tech bubble play a role? How about the housing bubble?
Why did the payroll numbers as a percentage of revenue change? Could that be because of the social security tax increases that were raised periodically since the 50’s in order to cover more retirees? Maybe the numbers got skewed when Medicare came on board in the sixties. Remember both medicare and social security are both paid by employee and employer and both are considered “payroll taxes”.
What does it mean when 50% of tax filers pay no income tax.. (but still payroll tax). What is that effect on the middle class?
Numbers can tell you a lot or you can put them in a newspaper article that has an agenda but imparts to the reader no real information.
Take a look at the chart at the bottom of the page …. it doesn’t answer your point but may give us both some reason for thought.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm
My guess is people are looking for a boogey man to point to as to why they aren’t doing so well. My bet is that its a very complex boogey man and not so easy to ferret out.
Denial…it’s destroying out country.
One word answers don’t mean much. Tell me what do those stats really mean? They are being bandied about as if they actually mean something. Income has fallen but over the last few decades but how does the incomes of 11 million illegals in low paying jobs skew the stats? That is just one example.
Bloomberg’s Al Hunt asked Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) — who represented the GOP on the fiscal supercommittee that failed to craft a deficit reduction package — to explain this viewpoint, considering that more jobs were created under the Clinton administration and its higher taxes on the rich than were created following the Bush tax cuts. Upton admitted that “I don’t know specifically the answer to that question,” nonsensically pointing to Friday’s jobs report instead of trying to argue the premise of Hunt’s question
from CNN Money:
“If history tells us anything, that’s unlikely. The effective corporate tax rate has been steadily declining for decades. Corporations paid more than 49% of their profits in federal taxes in the 1950s, 38% in the 1960s, 33% in the 1970s and 25% in the 1980s. All the while, U.S. wages have been stagnant for years even as productivity has risen. Between 1989 and 2010, U.S. productivity grew by 62.5% — far outpacing wages, which grew by only 12% during the same period, according to a March 2011 study by the Economic Policy Institute
tax cuts for business do nothing for the economy except screw the worker
That ought to clean up Lewiston.
Clean up what?
Between these changes and the crackdown on welfare fraud, one can only hope.
When there are NO more life jackets on the boat……………you don’t get on!!
I want to see LePage’s birth certificate and passport.
And I want LePage to be tested for alcohol abuse on Friday and Saturday nights.
yessah
why? another sore loser heard from..get over it losers.
LePage is a 24/7 public employee – he can’t go gettin’ hammered on my dime.
test him
yessah
If the state wants to save money than make all the people in both houses pay for there insurence like the rest of us do an there retirement will be base on like the rest of maine people have for just the time you serves an no retirement till they turn 66. I bet there are other perks that could be taken away too like money for meals an why do they need special lic. plates ?
And don’t stop with just the state’s legislature…it needs to apply to the lawmakers that are getting rich off the backs of the hardworking American citizens that they are supposed to be representing…you know the ticks down there in DC!
And, who has not heard about Maine being a safe haven and handout state for immigrants? They have been brought in by the busloads, in some cases.
Governor LePage was given a huge task that will take more than a year in office to undo. Kudos to him for his efforts, but not so many to those in his own party who will not stand behind his proposals.
Sounds good! Also, what is a legal non-citizen. Isn’t that an oxymoron?
That would be a Legal Permanent Resident or somebody here on some type of visa.
Only legally admitted non-citizens. Those here on a visa do not receive benefits
Would you care to bet on that, considering that it is well known that illegal immigrants receive benefits. I am willing to bet that there are some people here on a student visa that are collecting benefits.
If they are on a student visa they are not here illegally.
I think you missed my point that if someone here illegally can get benefits, someone who IS here legally such as a foriegn student here on a student visa could as well.
The fall out from this is not going to be pretty. Families will end up on the streets, children will go hungry and life saving medications will be denied to people who need them.
What I want to know is where are the jobs for all these people being cast out into the cold that will provide a roof over the heads of their children and food in the bellies of their children?
Oh wait, that’s right…the tainted tea drinkers don’t care because they hate poor people, even poor babies and children.
These people don’t want jobs. The ones that do find them in most cases if they are able to work. The problem is that people with no special skills want jobs that pay the same wages as skilled labor commands, and that’s not going to happen. BTW, poor babies and children aren’t going to be impacted by these cuts, unless their parents intended to be on welfare for life.
People with Bachelor Degrees are having to take jobs at McDonalds due to lack of jobs. So no, there are not plentiful jobs out there for everyone without one.
This issue is way beyond my knowledge so I’m not going to put anyone down. But, as far as no jobs available are concerned I do have to say that I just had 4 positions open with a starting pay of 9.25 an hour — qualifications…High School graduate, and a valid Maine drivers license, we provide all other training. It took me over 3 months to find people that wanted to work. I even had 2 people all hired and when they did out the math, they decided that it would be more beneficial for them to stay home. They couldn’t beat the free rent, heat, electric, food, and medical care. So wereas I don’t know the total picture–that is a snapshot of our system at work.
Is there significant travel involved where they would have to spend a lot in gas? Do they need to have a reliable vehicle? What are the hours like? etc. There has to be more to it than what you’ve shared. People ARE looking for jobs, so if you are having a hard time filling them then there is something about the job/conditions that are turning people off.
The place of employment is in a downtown area. People that do work here have been working here on average of 10 years. Its a small company with good benefits. The positions were added positions not positions that people left from. Bottom line is that there are too many benefits for someone to give up. Maybe they need to help the person out a little with some of this stuff until they get used to living and using their own money.
and just how bad would a job paying $9.25/hour have to be so that it takes an employer months to find people? I think your attitude is all wrong. I was brought up to WORK, not well, I guess I will work if it is not too much hassle or if it won’t cost me my taxpayer paid benefits.
I highly doubt “justbeing’s” business is highly dangerous or anything.
It’s not my business but I do help with the interviewing and hiring process. I’ve been employed by this company for over 20 years (right out of high school). They are like family — I think its just a hard time and sometimes the reality of leaving the known to take on the challenge of jumping into a new job and losing the security of knowing that everything is taken care of each month is scarey for people.
If people are so lazy as you hinted than how come over 100 people applayed for jobs at a new conveniecne store that open in Norridgewock ?
I don’t see where I said anywhere in my comment that anyone was lazy. I basically said that after they had considered their finanicial situation they realized that it was more beneficial for them to stay in a situation where their needs where being met, other than struggling to take on all those basic needs.
Your attitude indicates that you think it is beneath the dignity of a person with a bachelor’s degree to work at McDonalds. Your attitude is part of what is wrong with this country.
and what they make working at McDonalds makes them eligible for Maine Care — food stamps and housing subsidies —
Very well stated!
NO when they pay min. wages no benefits an 20 hrs a week i don’t blame people for not taking those jobs. Those place would much rather hire kids so if any thing dose happen to them all they do is send them home to mommy an daddy an hire another kid
I have many, many friends with Bachelor Degrees and none of them are working at McDonalds.
Border’s and Books a Million?
Maybe they shouldn’t be having babies if they can’t afford it! My husband and I made a conscious decision to wait till we have some saving set
aside before we started a family – for the ‘just in case scenarios’. What’s
happening now? We are a childless couple who are being taxed way way beyond any
of our friends with children. We can’t save the way we’d like, because we are
paying for other peoples’ mistakes. How is that fair? I have no problem with
helping out, we do live in a society, but helping out is not the same as
enabling. There are consequences for actions.
and of course if the birth control failed ………….
Do you understand that some people become poor AFTER they have kids?
EVERYBODY that has kids become poor after they have them! It’s a fact of parenting life!
Don’t cry when your town raises your property taxes and your roads don’t get plowed or sanded or repaired…or when there are cuts in emergency services and education…because that’s what is going to happen when towns have to swallow the cost of helping people locally. That’s what will happen.
End all state and federal “charitable donations.” Place it back in the hands of friends and neighbors who know the people who live next to them or in the same neighborhood. Americans are generous people. why won’t you trust us to do the right thing for people who really need help?
Why don’t you move to tribal lands of Somalia or Pakistan, where there is no government control of anything. In places like that Tribal warlords rape, pillage and plunder at will. You have something they want…they take it from you. They want your wife, your daughter, your son to fight for them? They just come take what they want. That is what lack of government provides. Take off your rose colored glasses of what you think life would be like without government present. It is that government that creates and enforces the rule of law so that you can live freely in a safe environment. I swear that some people don’t ever think about consequences and fallout from the things they claim to want. Completely clueless…
I swear that the clueless people are those that don’t realize that there was once a middle ground. Where government knew its limitations and hesitated to step over them.
They knew then that the taxpayers money was to be used to plow and pave those roads. Now we have crappy roads but one heck of a good social welfare system.
Today anything can be on the budget. Right down to providing cab fare for methadone addicts so they get their fix and get back to their section8 housing in time to trade their ebt card for some other intoxicant.
These days half the people pay LITTLE or NO income tax and want all the “say” in how its used. Money is power and even the most foppish liberal knows it is better to use other peoples money in their favored pursuits.
If a taxpayer resents its use then they are made to feel guilty and listen to hyperbolic statements like “Take off your rose colored glasses of what you think life would be like without government present.”
When that isn’t even the topic at all.
A child is never a mistake, I grew up on welfare I was a teen mom at times I did receive food stamps and mainecare to help us. My husband and I have always worked (we married when I was 16 and pregant 26 years ago). Today my husband is disabled and I am the sole provider I have spent the last 7 years working and going to school finnsihing my 4 year degree. I am working now but I am always looking for something that will pay enough to compinsate for what we lost when my husband got hurt.
I understand your frustration becouse we can never seem to get ahead, at times it seems the harder you try the worse it gets.
But please NEVER call a child a mistake lets not forget they are the innocent ones here. Maybe we should be investing in programs working with these children so as adults they will be productive members of society.
Sorry!
You have stepped into the “personal responsibility spectrum” where liberal social justice types feel that you and I are responsible for other peoples actions or lack thereof.
You will be required to go back to square one, and have two children that you can’t afford in order to make these people feel better about themselves when the give away your”s and my money.
Hey OldWench,
Many of us taxpayers are tired of taking care of so many others, plus our selves and our own families that we have had enough…..got it?…..Enough! And most of us are doing it on less than the $50K per year that you said it takes. So let’s see you put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is! Send a personal check to the State Treasurer for what ever your conscience tells you, and open your door and give hospitality to as many of the people as you can fit into your home. Do it! Run an open post telling them where you can be contacted to receive assistance.
You need to stop looking only at the surface. Look at what is going to happen when these people lose help from the state. They will go to the TOWNS where they live. Those towns will now have to eat the costs of helping people and it will bankrupt them. When people get help on the state level the state qualifies for matching federal funds for much of these programs. When you kick people off programs you LOSE the federal funding. So LePage’s idiocy loses federal funds and shifts the FULL cost to municipalities and it ends up costing Mainers MORE than it would have. For crying out loud you people need to consider the consequences of these sorts of foolish policies. You think your taxes are too high now, just wait until your town raises property and local taxes to try to meet these new costs they’re going to be faced with. THINK for crying out loud…and that means beyond the surface.
Hey, old wench, can you spell S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-M??
This is exactly WHY the government should not be in the business AT ALL of providing “charity.” No ability to control who gets what or why or with limitations that are rational, but which some will call “unconstitutional.” Return charitable giving to the churches and local organizations that actually have the ability to know who’s asking for help and why because the people that belong to these religious organizations live and work next door to the people asking for help and are in a much better position to know if mom and dad are running a drug trade or if they sit on their butts all day and play computer games. Get state and federal government out of the charitable donation business.
Again…social justice is NOT socialism. They are two entirely different things.
The purpose of government is to make sure that all citizens of that government have access to the fruits of their tax dollars and the ability to make the most of themselves and their birth talents. The purpose of government is NOT social justice. Social justice is the goal of any number of organizations–be it churches, temples, mosques, NAACP, NOW, Greenpeace, you name it. I have NO PROBLEM with people donating their own cash to do whatever sort of social engineering they want.
I don’t want my government to take on social issues at all, because one person’s social justice is another person’s social injustice. I want the government, state, federal, and local, to refrain from any social engineering with my money. All I want are good infrastructures, roads, postal service, a standing army, and government officials and employees who are mindful of where the money comes from and that they must answer to the public.
You wanna set up addiction programs for addicts? DO IT WITHOUT GOVERNMENT MONEY. Fundraise, build a business, do whatever you want, but don’t call addicts “disabled persons” and entitle them to special treatment.
Only in the minds of the people that want to spend MY money to train future welfare users.
“When you kick people off programs you LOSE the federal funding”.
One would assume if they are kicked off nobody is funding them. Or did you mean we should grab as much free Federal money as possible?
No, when they get kicked off programs they still have needs, and the majority will meet the requirements for town General Assistance instead of state programs. That puts the FULL burden on towns, and the towns cannot afford it without having to raise property taxes and cutting other local services. They’re not going to allow families to live on the streets, so they will be paying their rent and utilities, medications, food vouchers, etc. Better hope you don’t have children in school…education will be cut too. Sure will suck for all those kids that like sports. There won’t be any money for that soon.
Wench, I do believe you have downed waaaaay too much liberal Kool Aid. Whether you like it or not these people are going to lose help from the state because there just isn’t enough money. Do you get it? The “state” you are talking about doesn’t just print more money. They take it from the taxpayer. The taxpayer is already paying nearly 50% of what he works for to the town/state, and federal governments. Many of the people whom these posts refer to have migrated here because they wanted to. If they can find a better deal elsewhere than nobody is keeping them here. And as for the matching federal funds you mention?? Just where do you think that comes from? Now, the federal government actually can “just print” more dollars. In fact it has done so for decades, and the chickens have come home to roost. There’s this little thing called the national deficit. Maybe it’s YOU who needs to look below the surface because you’ve not indicated you have. And I am still waiting for your answer as to whether you are going open your door to give these people money and a place to live. Remember look below the surface!
Conservatives abuse the system just as much as liberals.
People do not look at the big pitctur all they do is look at a SMALL snap shot
So why not do what our parents and grandparents did to survive? They either moved to where there was work or they had two or three generations living in one home. They didn’t expect anyone to take care of them, especially not the government. THINK for crying out loud. We can survive much longer as a welfare state.
Maybe you and your fellow “occupiers” can solve the problem. ‘Tainted tea drinkers” I assume you meant the Tea Party, don’t hate poor people, they dislike(hate is such a harsh word) cheats, frauds and criminals.
if the tea party hates cheats frauds and criminals so much – why do they take money from the Kochs?
check out the Bloomberg ( hardly a liberal magazine) on the Kochs
I’m not an “Occupier.” I can’t stand the nut jobs on EITHER side of the political aisle. I’m a moderate who is fed up with blatant stupidity. It USED to be the left that had all the nut bags a few years ago…but the whack jobs on the right make the left nutters look sane. That’s pretty dang scary to people in the middle.
Nobody posting here appears to hate “poor people, babies or children.” What we are asking for is accountability and limits on what tax dollars, taken primarily from the overburdened middle class, can be used for–that’s entirely reasonable.
The main reason the middle class is over-burdened is because those most able to pay taxes without even feeling it are given such frivolous tax breaks that the middle class pay a much higher percentage. Even if you take away assistance to the poor it doesn’t lower your taxes…politicians always find a way to spend it…and the GOP spend it by cutting taxes for the wealthiest even more. The poor aren’t suddenly going to qualify for non-existent jobs that will pay for their survival…there ARE NO JOBS! The cost of their survival will just be shifted to the towns and the result will be higher property taxes and a reduction of local services…like snow removal, road maintenance, education, emergency services, etc. The cost is only being shifted and you’ll like it far, far less than you like helping on a state level with matching federal funds, some of which will be lost when people are tossed out into the cold.
Hey, old wench, can you spell S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-M??
This is exactly WHY the government should not be in the business AT ALL of providing “charity.” No ability to control who gets what or why or with limitations that are rational, but which some will call “unconstitutional.” Return charitable giving to the churches and local organizations that actually have the ability to know who’s asking for help and why because the people that belong to these religious organizations live and work next door to the people asking for help and are in a much better position to know if mom and dad are running a drug trade or if they sit on their butts all day and play computer games. Get state and federal government out of the charitable donation business.
You seriously need to read up on what socialism actually is. Social JUSTICE is NOT Socialism. Good grief, educate yourself, please.
Please, lecture us on social justice.
SOCIALISM: A theory or system of SOCIAL ORGANIZATION that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production AND THE DISTRIBUTION of capital in the community as a whole.
So, what have I got wrong? You want to take from those who have because of their toil and sweat of their own actions and GIVE to those who do nothing. I call that socialism at its worst.
The majority of production and distribution is actually controlled by large corporations that pay extremely low or NO taxes. Educate yourself.
The purpose of government is to make sure that all citizens of that government have access to the fruits of their tax dollars and the ability to make the most of themselves and their birth talents. The purpose of government is NOT social justice. Social justice is the goal of any number of organizations–be it churches, temples, mosques, NAACP, NOW, Greenpeace, you name it. I have NO PROBLEM with people donating their own cash to do whatever sort of social engineering they want.
I don’t want my government to take on social issues at all, because one person’s social justice is another person’s social injustice. I want the government, state, federal, and local, to refrain from any social engineering with my money. All I want are good infrastructures, roads, postal service, a standing army, and government officials and employees who are mindful of where the money comes from and that they must answer to the public.
You wanna set up addiction programs for addicts? DO IT WITHOUT GOVERNMENT MONEY. Fundraise, build a business, do whatever you want, but don’t call addicts “disabled persons” and entitle them to special treatment.
Good. America needs to start taking care of their own first.
You mean Illegal Alien Criminals that should be deported for breaking America’s Laws. If they are here legally, then where are their sponsors who should be paying for their bills. You imported them, so then pay for them.
The modifications for the drug testing bothers me. “If they continue to test positive for illegal drug use, they could be required, in order to get assistance, to get into a substance-abuse treatment program.” Oh, great, let’s require them to go into methadone treatment at Acadia or some other facility that has its profits as its number one interest, there’s a program for success!
To add a pet peeve of mine. Each year many Maine “tourist businesses” whine and cajole Maine Senators and Reps. to allow ever more numbers of youth from abroad to work here. I say make these businesses scour New England for our own residents. I know, I know, they will moan about college kids needing to leave before the end of the season- so— hire older folks.
One of my kids had his identity stolen by a Polish youth- hence my angst.
How many of these green card folks stay on and on and collect and collect?
Speaking of which, Is Lepage’s Jamaican adoptee still attending school?
Older folks will not be hired because of insurance cost.
Making people get off of the gravy train? Oh the humanity.
We live in a state where we can not take care of our own and we are taking care of people who are not citizens, GIVE ME A BREAK. If you want to come here fine but get a job and support your self or go back to where you came from there is no free ride just the OPPORTUNITY to make a better life.
Go LePage….cut em all! If people want to come to this country they should get a job!
Living in a place where many of the families are recipients of section 8 housing and TANF . The landlord claims… ” At least I know I will get paid my rent by the State”. As, I struggle to pay my rent every month and put food on the table, I understand how hard it is to survive. My PET-PEEVE is this. I watch the Rent a Center trucks( and others like them ) pull into the yards of these state recipients and unload, flat screen TVs, stereos, computers, new furniture, you name it. My TV came from Good Will $20.00, radio from yard sale $7.00, computer 12 years old and second hand, all second hand furniture from yard sales, friends and family. Just saying….
We did the welfare food stamp thing once. I was disgusted at the amount that was given to my family…over $900 a month? For food? We don’t even eat that much food. I honestly thought we’d receive maybe $100 a month or less. Even after I told the DHS worker that I grew a lot of my own food and raised animals for our meat, she told me “Just feed the extra to your pigs or buy things to put in your compost pile.” I will never forget that, it taught me a lot about how wrong the “system” is. We ended the food stamps shortly after. I just couldn’t do it, it’s so morally wrong. Even though today, we qualify much more than we did then, there’s no “need”. Our cabinets and freezers are full, some weeks to the point that we don’t have to do any shopping.
It’s one thing if you think this is the right thing to do and that perhaps Maine’s safety net is too generous. It’s another to have disdain for your neighbors because they’re in these situations — which is clearly the case for some here on this comment board.
It will suck not getting TANF, but at least they will be cozy in their new $250,000 taxpayer funded home.
You shouldn’t be aloud to get any state aid if your illegal! Exactly why they do no let the legal tax paying citizens vote on such a matter. The majority of Mainer’s and Us citizens want drug testing for welfare citizen proof and valid Id to vote.
oops it Mainah’s not Mainer’s sorry!
Just because someone isn’t a US citizen it doesn’t mean they are “illegals.” There are many immigrants in this country legally who are allowed to work and do. Taxes are taken from their pay, they pay sales tax and if they buy a home they pay property taxes as well. It’s really not right to tax people and then deny them the services those taxes are used to provide to everyone else. This isn’t about people here illegally.
They even have social security numbers!!!!!
I wish North Carolina would do the same thing. Kills me watching Illegals get help with everything, housing, medical, food stamps, wic, right down to SSI and SSDI
What about immigrants who are married to US Citizens, who just do not make enough money to provide insurance?
what about working people that have NO benefits?
hey man don’t shoot teh messenger. I was just asking what I thought was a reasonable question. I agree with you. First rights should go to working or former working citizens in need.
Illegal Aliens marry U.S. Citizens just to get a Green Card. Nothing More. Most of these marriages end in divorce once the green card arrives in the mail. Just another scam Illegals use to get a green card and the welfare benefits it brings.
hey I don’t like it either, but now they must stay married for a certain number of years or they get deported. check it out.
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, I feel it’s safe to say that EVERYONE should be held accountable for the decisions they make and the effects it may have on their life. If you don’t pursue the skills required to get a job that allows you to support yourself, that is no one’s fault but your own. There are no excuses. I recently read an article addressing the issue of there being many jobs available in the fields of healthcare, engineering, sciences, etc – however no one is qualified to fill them! Jobs are there, you just have to aim a little higher these days… and I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing.
I have a great friend who is the first of her family to EVER attend college, and with just about everything working against her has now become a successful physician in an extremely competitive sub-specialty. It wasn’t easy, or even fun most of the time, but it sure has paid off now.
When you see people work hard to rise above the odds, it’s hard to be sympathetic to those who choose not to.
It’s your own fault if your not an engineer or scientist? Everyone held accountable for the decisions they make? Life holds you accountable for bad decisions. I haven’t seen anyone on welfare or food stamps that have a good lifestyle. Yes, there are always heartening stories of people overcoming the odds, but it is better to have affordable education opportunities so people do not have to be extraordinary to get an education. We don’t need a state full of young people with only a high school diploma. I think we need to not focus on being spiteful to those who are mediocre or have some problems in learning etc. We need to help those people get an education, so they won’t be a drain all their lives on the economy. A person who makes a decent income will be a consumer and is more likely to be self-sufficient. I know a woman in Texas who was suffering from a mental illness and received assistance from the state to go to college and get treatment for her mental illness. She went from being someone who could not keep a job to becoming a teacher and making over 60K a year.
Is it someone elses fault if you don’t become an engineer? No.
You don’t have to be extraordinary to get an education. If you work hard enough and want it bad enough, it’s your’s for the taking.
Bottom Line – You can’t help those who don’t choose to help themselves.
Substance abuse treatment, shouldn’t be considered meth clinics popping up everywhere. At my former job I was forced to ride with a co-worker that was transporting a client that was in treatment. You notice I stated former job. He is still working there and still in treatment and another year has passed. How long does meth treatment last????? They keep dishing you free drugs??? Look at their eyes…. That isn’t drug free, Lepage. Don’t let that pass. Druggies will all go from street drugs to governement paid legal meth clinic. Then we will pay for their drugs and groceries.
It really depends on the reason someone is a patient in a methadone program. Opiates are a really tricky addiction issue. Many people who end up addicted started off just taking the pain medication their doctor gave them for back pain or surgery. Opiates are the most effective pain killers, but they are also extremely addictive. Tolerance is built up relatively quickly and if someone got addicted due to needing opiates for pain it’s especially difficult to stop because they still have pain. On top of that, once you are addicted to opiates if you stop your have very severe physical pain because of the changes in the brain chemistry. Some people will have to take methadone for the rest of their lives because they need to manage their pain that caused the addiction in the first place. In addition to this issue, methadone is actually a bit more difficult to get off than heroin…but it’s MUCH, MUCH more safe to take…and that’s a major trade off. There would be a higher success rate if suboxone was the preferred treatment for opiate addiction. Sadly, it’s more expensive and until relatively recently there was a very strict limit to who could prescribe it and how many patients those doctors were allowed to prescribe it to.
what is missing here – those that are required (REQUIRED) to either volunteer 20 hours of their life a week OR go to school for FREE to stay on state benefits…..
The guy that works (full time) at a local business that recives Mainecare, foodstamps, etc…. his wife on SSD/SSI and their granddaughter in the home. He drives a Harley in the warmer months and makes MORE money fixing bikes ~ than working (a paying job), his stipend from the state and his wife’s SS. Imagine that! Wish I had health care!
OR
The guy that recently moved into a appraised waterfront property valued at $350K. The property has a house and a restaurant that this self proclaimed disabled person runs. He cooks, serves, etc. He lives with his girlfriend and their child. ALL members of the household enjoy FREE healthcare as well as food stamps, etc.
OR
The guy down the road that ‘works’ construction and has been laid off for over a year – enjoys free health care, food stamps, etc. and goes to school for FREE. His employer wanted him back last year, but he didn’t want to work. He had other things to do last year.
No one seems to ‘see’ these kind of individuals. Hello????
People on TANF don’t get to go to school for “free.” If they go to college they will qualify for pell grants, but those do NOT cover all the costs of school. They have to take out student loans just like everyone else does. Aspire will reimburse people on TANF up to a certain amount per year for the cost of text books, but it doesn’t cover the full cost because text books are outrageously expensive.
By the way…it’s not 20 hours a week a person has to work, train, go to school or volunteer, it’s FULL time. The actual classes won’t add up to 40 weeks, though, because a certain amount of time is allotted for studying/research/homework. Grades and attendance are closely monitored to ensure that the TANF recipient is meeting their obligations.
If you see abuse then report it and stop complaining about it. If you report it and it is looked into and found that things aren’t as you saw them then you were operating on assumptions that were not accurate.
The people that are in the system tell me what they have to do to get what they get. Period.
The construction guy – tells me he isn’t paying a dime to go to school. What reason would he have to lie to me? A couple years ago a woman with 3 kids told a bunch of people that the state of ME paid for her 2 associates degrees and she is working on her 3rd – at the time; her kids stayed in free child care – since the school helped with that… she lied too? She said she paid for none of it.
My understanding of ASPIRE is that you are to actively seek out jobs and yet when a job is offered and you decline (not what you want to do) – no penality.
So, my question to you is – are people I encounter lying to me? or are you an employee of the system that can point out to all of us where in the manuals it says what you say and then explain why you are so defensive of programs that fraud happens in…..
Completely agree, knew a woman who was on welfare and the other state aids for herself and kids. The state paid to put her through nursing school, paid for her books, computer, child care, housing (rent- not dorm) and other additional cost. She completed her nursing degree, worked for the state as a nurse, made more money on welfare, left her job and got back on the system because she got more money. Oh, never had to pay any of the bills back to the state.
That’s insane as you make more money as a nurse than a welfare recipient.
Evidently you see these particular individuals. So report them. Name names, keep records of your reports. If nothing happens, get the names to the press. I’m sure that the Maine Heritage Policy Center in Portland would be more than happy to jump all over this. Or contact the two Charlies, Charlie Summers or Charlie Webster. They’re pretty easy to find. Even Governor LePage should be interested. If a couple of people can get him to take down a mural, I’m sure that he would be very interested in rooting out this behavior.
Phones these days have cameras. So a little sleuthing on your part complete with pictures of these offenders should really help. You wouldn’t even have to hide in the bushes.
* The under the table money – state would only need to check out previous complaints.
* The restaurant – he has been reported before and nothing has been done.
* The construction guy – originally he was suppose to have been ‘cut off’ 12/31/11 and for some reason his welfare has been extended. His free education (state funded) evidently showed whomever that he was doing his part getting ‘re-trained’.
No offense, Pat T. Riot, but I get sick and tired of hearing people say, “Well just, if you know about it, then report it.” Guess what? The government doesn’t care. I am sure more than 70% of the posters know someone that abuses the system. I know I do. Report it…ha, that’s an even bigger joke than the government looking out for the small guy. However, I must admit, I admire your adamant thoughts that they’ll do something about it. It’s people like you, that give people like me a little hope.
I’ve seen people abuse the system, but they aren’t immigrants – just home-grown lazy Mainers.
Weird how the BDN left out the word “illegal” in the title to the story
MaineCare provides healthcare benefits that exceed those of Maine tax payers purchase for themselves and family. How can you expect Maine Taxpayers to pay taxes to provide healthcare benefits to MaineCare recepients when they can’t afford to purchase those same benefits for themselves? I don’t know what the answer is but many Mainers will soon see higher healthcare cost under UHC then previously stated by our fabulous President OBAMA. I just experienced these healthcare cost and it isn’t pritty.
You know legal immigrants sign an agreement that they will be self supporting. Those who feel that this should not be enforced should be the ones paying. And, if you do go on the dole, you need to be deported for violating your agreement.
Also, we have the change the rules on anchor immigrants who immediately bring extended families including seniors who have never done or will do a productive thing for our society yet will eventually draw on numerous social and financial programs. This is disgusting.
Finally, we can no longer afford to be the “go to” place for the rest of the world when they have problems with their government; i.e., refugees and asylees. We have our own problems financially and too many of us are out of work. Don’t like your situation, change your government–we did in 1776.
This is a great start. It will be interesting, though, to see how many people suddenly become “disabled.” My guess is lots of these TANF-lifers will become no more than inanimate carbon blobs, moistening their chairs and breathing in and out. Sigh.
lol
DO NOT forget ‘Governor’ Lepage’s recent RIDICULOUS proposal to take the jobs of thousands of Nurses, funding from Mental Health, Elderly and Addiction programs that help and literally save lives every day. Don’t forget this guy thinks it’s a good idea to target Maine’s most vulnerable people when times are already hard. Sorry addict, you can no longer get help, Sorry Grandma, the medication you need to survive is no longer available, Sorry depressed suicidal patient, there are no inpatient mental health facilities for you. Really? I don’t know anyone with a heart who would back this guy, he should be removed from his position.
People will commit crimes to get put in prison to be takes care of
A few *Forgotten Facts* to them *Dems.* Read it and WHINE !!! ;<) Google Mr. Baldacci.
In 2004, Baldacci signed executive order 13 FY 04/05 titled "An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents", which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order, his political opponents have labeled Maine a "sanctuary state" for illegal immigrants.
Following info courtesy of, The Kennebec Journal…October 10, 2010
Maine’s welfare system offers one of the most generous benefits packages in the nation.
Almost 30 percent of our population receives some form of benefit.
Between 2003 and 2010, Maine’s welfare enrollment grew 70 percent (from 226,000 to 381,000), according to a report from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
Is that really “Maine, the way life should be?”
Maine ranks second in the nation in all three major welfare programs: Food stamps, cash public assistance (TANF) and in Medicaid enrollment as a percent of total population, according to the Maine Heritage Policy Center
Gov. John Baldacci’s executive order in 2004 effectively turned Maine into a sanctuary state. According to the last census in 2000, Maine’s population of illegal immigrants ranged in the thousands.
How many may be currently accessing our tax funded welfare system?
How can we possibly know? Maine employees are prohibited from inquiring about immigration status.
A residency requirement could save our state hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in benefits to illegal immigrants as well as immigrants who aren’t qualified to receive benefits under the federal umbrella.
Recovery begins one step at a time. Let’s take our first step toward protecting Maine people by empowering Maine employers to ask for immigration status before asking, “What can we give you?”
Thank you LePage…
immigrants should not be able to collect any assistants from our country
When I file my taxes can I file “Married and 600,000 dependents” I do support nearly 50% of our state with my tax dollars?
A few *Forgotten Facts* to them *Dems.* Read it and WHINE !!! ;<) Google Mr. Baldacci.
In 2004, Baldacci signed executive order 13 FY 04/05 titled "An Order Concerning Access to State Services By All Entitled Maine Residents", which, among other things, prohibited state employees from inquiring about immigration status when people apply for public assistance or services. Due to this executive order, his political opponents have labeled Maine a "sanctuary state" for illegal immigrants.
Following info courtesy of, The Kennebec Journal…October 10, 2010
Maine’s welfare system offers one of the most generous benefits packages in the nation.
Almost 30 percent of our population receives some form of benefit. Between 2003 and 2010, Maine’s welfare enrollment grew 70 percent (from 226,000 to 381,000), according to a report from the Maine Heritage Policy Center, a conservative think tank.
Is that really “Maine, the way life should be?”
Maine ranks second in the nation in all three major welfare programs: Food stamps, cash public assistance (TANF) and in Medicaid enrollment as a percent of total population, according to the Maine Heritage Policy Center
Gov. John Baldacci’s executive order in 2004 effectively turned Maine into a sanctuary state. According to the last census in 2000, Maine’s population of illegal immigrants ranged in the thousands.
How many may be currently accessing our tax funded welfare system? How can we possibly know? Maine employees are prohibited from inquiring about immigration status.
A residency requirement could save our state hundreds of thousands of dollars paid in benefits to illegal immigrants as well as immigrants who aren’t qualified to receive benefits under the federal umbrella
Recovery begins one step at a time. Let’s take our first step toward protecting Maine people by empowering Maine employers to ask for immigration status before asking, “What can we give you?”
It is about damn time they did something about this. Having worked in a grocery store for the past 3 years, I have seen first hand how badly people abuse our system. I feel very sad for the people who NEED benefits who are turned away due to people who don’t necessarily NEED them abusing the system.
I really dont care for this governor,but if you are not an american then you should not be getting help from american tax payers. I have worked and struggled to pay my bills,why should the state or fedral goverment give our money away,send them home and i dont care if they are going to be killed,were starveing and letting the old freeze to death. Its time to take care of our own,forigien aid is for that and no aid is what you get when you get caught in this country,a free ride to mexico or canada is all they need.
Please, these are modest overdue reforms. The major point is we are not blowing even bigger holes in the budget. Just holding the line on welfare spending in this state is a major achievment.
We have to decide whether to view drug abuse as a disability or a criminal activity. As long as these people are viewed as disabled by DHHS, they get tax funded benefits. Drug abuse is a criminal offense and it’s time we stop funding these people’s basic needs in between their prison sentences.
Oooooooo Booooooo Hoooooo
I’m pleased to see Maine tighten up the welfare programs for non-citizens. Maybe it’s time for them to go to another state (or their own country) and see what they can get for free.
Here are a few frauds for ya, addiction to acadia mileage. Either by taxi or bus or the scam of a personal car, individuals get paid mileage for the personal car. But what isnt known is the 8 people that pile in that car from lets say , millinocket…They all get the mileage check! or the state paid for baby sitting when the welfare parents or parent gets a job, not a bad concept to get going back on your feet. But the baby sitter gets the check for an agreed time, logging in or what have you. They dont babysit all that time or when they say they do. Just a few of the many examples. This welfare game is SO huge and SO overwhelming to the State, there is no way they have the resources to police it. Its the evolution of a monster with no end in sight.
Exxon – Mobil’s profit margin was between 4 and 5
percent before the start of the Iraq war in 2003 and between 10 and 12 percent
just after the start of the Iraq war.
http://ycharts.com/companies/XOM/profit_margin#startDate=3/31/2000&endDate=9/30/2008&zoom
Hooyah.
More cuts please!!!
I apologize if anyone refuted my comment from an hour
ago, but it appears the Bangor Daily News is a victim of its own success and we
are not able to actually go to where are comments are posted from our Disqus
profiles and you have to keep clicking on “Load more comments” to find them. I
refuse.
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/bangordailynews.com/ –
The Bangor Daily News has more than twice as many unique visitors to its Website
as the {sorry, state’s] next highest ranked newspaper.
Whatever.