LEVANT, Maine — When the owner of a local family farm operation exercised his right to free speech by putting up a small political sign near a private driveway, some customers with an opposing view exercised their consumer rights to boycott the business.
That, in turn, prompted others to publicly come out in support of the farm family in a battle that is being waged primarily on the farm’s Facebook page.
At issue is a small lawn size “No on 1” sign that Gary Treworgy, patriarch of the family farm, put up in front of his house. The property is also the location of a business that employs several family members.
“Don’t redefine marriage. Vote NO on Question One. Marriage=One Man + One Woman,” read the sign, sponsored by the Protect Marriage Maine campaign.
A citizen initiative on the Nov. 6 statewide ballot, Question 1 seeks to overturn Maine’s ban on same-sex marriage. The issue has proven a contentious one — pitting neighbors, family members and friends against one another from one end of the state to the other.
The first post critical of Treworgy’s sign appeared Sunday, family spokesman Jon Kenerson said Monday afternoon. Within less than 24 hours, more than 15,000 people had visited the page, with many of them weighing in with comments, he said.
Though Treworgy removed the sign Monday morning, after someone stopped to say it was hurtful, the Facebook battle continued to rage.
On Monday, several members of the family said they were taken aback by the backlash they had received.
A sampling of posts from Question 1 supporters:
• “You have lost all of my family’s business as of now. You may not know me personally, but my family has done business for years with you. It’s disgusting that you would bring personal ideals into your business page. All the years you took making the orchard great and in a matter of weeks, you have ruined your name and business. We will be using Wallingford’s Orchard as of now. Hopefully lost profits will teach you to be tolerant and respectful in future business dealings.”
• “You are certainly entitled to your beliefs but your business will no longer be supported by my family.”
• “No matter your belief, it still shouldn’t be expressed at your place of business. You lost so many of your loyal customers. While you may believe that being gay is a sin, no one is free of sin, including you.”
And a sample from those who support the Treworgy family:
• “You may have lost many who ‘like’ your page, but you have gained me.”
• “ … I commend you for defending/explaining your stance on Question 1. I think it’s sad that because you support No on 1 that you are looked upon as ‘closed-minded’ or discriminatory. So what that you don’t share the Yeson 1 viewpoint. … I thought we lived in a free country with freedom of speech.”
• “You have a new customer in my family. Thank you for your courage.”
• “I will continue to support your farm. Regardless of your point of view. If everyone could take a minute and stop condemning people of their views it would be great. With that being said … If people knew every company’s personal views they wouldn’t be able to shop anywhere. … Btw I support gay marriage … I believe everyone should have the right to marry who they love … Same rights as everyone else … No more no less.”
The controversy playing out on the Treworgy Family Orchards Facebook page prompted the family to post a lengthy statement Sunday night in which the family apologized for any hurt the sign might have caused — but at the same time stood by its position on same-sex marriage.
“This is obviously a very divisive issue and we value the freedom for every citizen to exercise their rights to express their opinion,” the statement read. “It’s a shame that so many assume that we are hateful and discriminatory simply because we are convinced that marriage is defined by a higher power than civil government.”
It was not clear Monday how the to-do over the sign might affect the orchard’s business in the long run. Kenerson said everyone, regardless of their politics, is welcome.
“We want people to know that it is possible to disagree with someone and continue to love and serve them as we have consistently done for years at our farm. No matter the outcome of the referendum in November.
“ Treworgy Family Orchards will continue to be a place that welcomes and serves people from every walk of life,” he said. “We love all our guests even if we don’t see eye to eye on everything.”
Here is the thing. He can post it, and customers can boycott his business. Free speech. Easy as that. Not sure what the whole row is about.
Free speech is free speech as the Constitution guarantees everyone. However, bringing deeply-held personal beliefs to your business for advertising is probably not wise because many feel strongly about their personal convictions and as easily as too many are offended in today’s social climate it’s just not a good choice, especially just prior to elections.
Again, he took that risk. I don’t think in the long run it will effect him – emotions run high right before elections and by next summer, most won’t think twice about going there.
I think that I’d agree with you that in the long run it probably won’t matter.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If people choose not to patronize his business because he chose to use his right to free speech, then they will do whatever they want. I applaud the family for using their right to take a stand!
I agree with you that by next year this will all be in the past and people who complained will be back to the farm.
You’re probably right.The only time most people leave a business is if it is something they don’t agree with in the course of the business(poor customer service,refunds,etc.)It’s hard to get people to change their habits.
I don’t think it’s because he used free speech. This is a family-oriented business, aimed at parents and children. Who are they to determine what constitutes a ‘family’ or ‘parents’? They say they welcome everyone to continue coming to the farm, no matter who they are, but does a same-sex couple really want to help line their pockets knowing that behind their back they are being condemned?
Just more proof of what a yes vote will do to Maine.
Nope, not at all.
There was nothing this business did that went against the 2005 anti-discrimination laws (which also protect everyone’s choice of religious views), and nothing about this would change with or without same-sex couples having access to civil marriage.
This is no different than a sports bar putting up a sign ridiculing a team and having patrons complain about it. The business has a right to post what they want, and they also have a right to remove signs that make their customers unhappy. That’s what running a business is about— giving customers a reason to come back!
Think about this, I don’t think they stand at the gate when you pay, and ask if you are in a same-sex relationship, and then treat you like crap. I think this is all so stupid. I am sure they never treated anybody that was in a same sex relationship any different, because they didn’t even know who you were. It was a sign for how they believe. Just because I don’t agree, does not make me treat people who do not agree with me like a piece of dirt. That is what is going on here. We need to live with tolerance for everybody.
Well of course not!! OK, how’s this? A company is totally racist. They are totally biggoted, dislike black people, and complains about them every chance they get. But they’re taking their money because by law, they cannot tell African-Americans they can’t come into the store. They decide to put a ‘bring back segregation’ sign on their lawn. Do you think a black person is going to want to enter that store, even thought the store owners might have been nice as pie to them the last 100 times they entered? Of course not! Now it’s a little different because you can’t hide skin color but you can hide your sexuality. So just because they don’t treat the customer poorly doesn’t mean they aren’t still thinking their thoughts in their head, and that’s why people do not want to continue business with them.
You had to go far to make this remark. Like you said you can see the difference. How many businesses do you go into that you would never what they are saying about you when you leave. You are grabbing at anything you possibly can. I still stand behind my statement. Where is the tolerance for those that have differences. I went through this with my daughter in school, because of her beliefs, and we are trying to teach this in schools and to hear all of this just makes me think that no matter what is being shared in school doesn’t matter, because it has to start in the home.
You had to really think hard about this remark to my comment. Like you said you can see the difference. How many businesses do you establish that you do not know what they are thinking in their head. That comment makes me laugh, because you don’t know what the person sitting beside you is thinking, or what their beliefs are unless they open their mouth to speak. I still stand behind my statement, “Where is the tolerance.” There are differences for everything in life, but that is why we have free will to believe what we want to believe. If I want to put a sign on my lawn to say what I believe I should have that right. It does not make me treat a person any different. And in this case I hardly doubt that this establishment is going to treat people any different just because of a sign. For you to even bring up a race is offensive.
The sign was on his own property which happens to be next to the business. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You want same sex marriage, he does not want to change the definition of marriage. What is the problem in enjoying and believing in your own opinion. That is why this referendum appears yet again.
I totally agree with entitlement of opinion. But we also have freedom of choice in this country, in that we can choose to not give money to someone who’s beliefs are a totally opposite of ours-especially one that questions human rights. We are not all religious, nor are all religions Christian, so to try and push a belief into law based on a Bible teaching is wrong. No mix of church and state. Plain and simple.
If this poll is any indication, he feels the same way the majority does.
The polling question was not on the subject of SSM but whether people supported his right to post the sign. I disagree with the sign’s message but I agree with his right to post it.
Personally, I don’t think it was a very wise business decision. He should have remained neutral in the issue if he had any concerns about his business being affected.
I agree 100%
Separation of Church and State, people!!
You know that is just ANOTHER reason that the gay rights want they want it thier way or no way at all. Like Janet Marie said the owner has a right to thier personal position.
The left preaches tolerance, so long as you agree with EVERYTHING they say.
You beat me to it. Agree with ya 100%.
The vast majority of people were not bashing them, simply stating that they are now educated consumers who will be taking their business elsewhere. That has nothing to do with being intolerant, and everything to do with being a consumer-driven society.
The company expressed an opinion. People responded pro and con. That is “freedom of speech” at is most basic level.
Yeah – funny how pesky basic human rights can be. Imagine that the left is arguing that they should apply to everyone, not just people born straight.
How anyone would equate marriage with “rights” is beyond me.
There is a reason for the “old ball and chain” metaphor associated with it, don’t you know?!
;-)
Marriage for gay couples would mean legal rights that married couples already enjoy. It might mean health insurance through a spouse (sorry, not offered to “domestic partners”). It might mean going to the hospital to be with your spouse – “oh, you’re not married, sorry only immediate family can visit.” I know there are more reasons that marriage does equate with “rights”, but maybe you haven’t faced any of those obvious dilemmas that I can think of right now.
I don’t think you got the joke…
Anyway… those legal rights aren’t afforded to me either. As a single person, I cannot get insurance through a spouse, I am taxed at a different rate than married people…
These are “rights” I gladly forsake for the liberty of not being bound by the ball and chain called marriage. I may sound like a smart-alack… OK, I am… but I am being honest when I say that there is nothing offered by the institution of marriage that would make me want to give up my ability to live my life on my terms.
You want to shackle yourself with a marriage contract and all the legal and social obligations that go with it … well, you know what they say about being careful what you wish for… you may get it in the end.
The paradox of it is right here; people have this strange notion that they are not free unless are free to bind themselves in all sorts of obligations. They don’t realize that obligation is the antithesis of liberty. For so long as you have any sort of obligation, you are not free to do as you please.
As a single person, you can’t get insurance through a spouse. That makes no sense. And the fact that you choose not to get married has no bearing on the fact that there are those who want to.
I’m just pointing out that I lack those same rights is all.
As a single person; it is my right to make fun of the institution of marriage (whether it be straight or gay) as much as I want, as I feel it is one of the silliest things to which humanity clings. My actual preference would be the outright abolition of marriage as a civil institution altogether. Let people who want the blessing of the church find one willing to perform the ritual of marriage. Why the government should recognize it or have anything to do with it is beyond me (and I don’t care if you’re talking straight or gay).
To quote Groucho Marx, “I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.”
“Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl to marry him. She said no; and the guy lived happily ever after.”
Marriage is an institution that may have had it’s place a century ago; but in this day and age, I feel it is obsolete.
Look up Loving v. Virginia (1967) and read what the SCOTUS called a “fundamental civil right”.
You should probably take a few minutes to try to learn about an issue before you take a public position on it. Somehow, I’m not surprised that these concepts are ‘beyond you’. I’m guessing a lot of things are.
and we have the right to not shop there because of it.
psst….all that gay people are asking for is to have the same rights as everyone else.
But marriage isn’t a “right.” It is a rite in the Church. It is a Holy sacred event that is a picture (type) of Christ and His Church. It is a Holy commitment before God. This squabble isn’t about whether people are sinning; it’s about taking the Holiness, the sanctity out of the marriage ceremony, making it common and devaluing it.
Actually, there is civil marriage also for those who don’t want to have a religious ceremony. It’s really not about religious marriage at all, but a civil one. If the referendem passes, churches do NOT have to perform ceremonies if they don’t want too. They are exempt. Also, nothing in schools will be taught differently as marriage isn’t taught in schools. :)
and as for the whole bullying thing – (another comment you made to me) – I know many vote on No ppl who no longer do business @ vote yes on 1 ppl. I guess no one has been so public about it.
Why is it the marriage license is issued by the state and not the church then?
Because the government is involved in something it should not be involved in. It is time to get the government out of marriage. Those choosing to live together should get the domestic partnership papers from the state/town to take advantage of those rights. Then those interested in a religious ceremony can marry in their religion or have any kind of ceremony they want.
And why do you hate American freedom?
So, when my friend gets ordained online (in 5 minutes with absolutely no credentials whatsoever) and marries Cruella & Dracula in a cemetary underneath an upside down cross, what is that doing to the sanctity of marriage? Do tell, because that scenario is perfectly legal.
But the only legal marriage is one with a state issued marriage license. Haven’t learned that yet?
My friend is gay and doesn’t believe in God, but she still wants to marry her partner.
Since God is now out of the picture, why can’t she get married?
God is not out of the picture.
You and everything in Creation is part of the picture God made.
Religion is the worst thing that ever happened to God.
Can I borrow this as needed? This sums up in the most efficient/direct way exactly what I have been trying to explain to other in regards to my feelings on this subject…. :)
Of course you may!
if it was only a church rite, then why can we get married through judges and jp’s? How about the other churches that want to perform these marriages? And, as someone has already mentioned, what about Loving vs. Virginia? “Marriage is one of the “basic civil rights of man,” fundamental to our very existence and survival..”
Then don’t men and women who are married in churches and then go get a civil state issued marriage license also devalue marriage by submitting to this government requirement to have that marriage lawfully recognized?
Actually, Tom, I’m bisexual. I agree he can put up whatever sign he wants, but he’ll have to deal w/the backlash (and really, I think this is WAY beyond what it should be, what happened to each his own?). It’s his personal stance, and others will have personal stances too – to not support or shop there
With this argument, why are people not threatening to stop doing business with folks who post the “Yes on 1” signs? This clear out and out bullying. Think like me or I will see that you are punished. Shame on all of you.
What makes you think that isn’t happening? It is. If my marrying someone bothers you, obviously that’s nor problem and not mine. What I do in my bedroom isn’t any of your business. If my loving someone is a problem for you, it’s just that YOUR problem. I don’t want to marry in a church (tho, I have several churches around me that would willingly do so). I want a civil marriage that gives me and the one I love protection under the law during medical emergencies, etc. I want to be treated as equal. Yes, I can get married to someone now, a man, if I were so inclined. But, as I’m not w/a man at the moment, but w/a woman, I’d like to marry her. How that effects you is beyond me. Leaving religion out of it, of course, because I’m not seeing a religious marriage.
I am not arguing the marrying a man VS a woman scenario, but I have another question for you… You state that you are with a woman “at the moment” and you would like to marry her. Would that marriage to your girlfriend have the same “til death do us part” connotation that comes with traditional marriage or until you decide not to be together anymore? Now, before I get a lot of back lash, I know there are plenty of heterosexual couples who divorce every day, so I know that the “sanctity” of marriage can be doubted because divorce is so prevalent in our society today.
It’s a valid question. I was with a man for almost 10 years, but at the moment, I’m with someone I want to marry. Who happens to be a woman. I never wanted to marry anyone before. I’m bisexual, so many times anti-gay ppl will simply say, “Well then marry a man, you are bisexual’ – have a real marriage:’. Whether I can be married or not, it’s a ’til death do us part scenario for us. Luckily, I have a friend who is a lawyer and all our “paperwork” is done so that no one can deny me access to her if she’s in the hospital, or visa versa. We have survived many things that many marriages have not survived, and for that, I’m grateful. But, I would love to call her my wife – but if it doesn’t happen, I won’t be any less happy. :)
Are any “Yes” voters who run businesses unwise enough to put up a yes sign?
Most people don’t have that kind of time to research that deeply.The difference now is that choice was sort of made for them by the sign.I know of one business owner who has a Yes on One sign at his home but not at his business(which is in a mall and may be regulated separately under the terms of his lease-not sure).That seems to make the most sense.
People are, and have. Where have you been ?
No, shame on you.
He has a right to his opinion as I have a right to do my business elsewhere. This is what makes Ameria great!
Sure everyone has a right to their opinion. As for the yes on one voters, the gay minority has definitely not had their way, it’s been your way (and nothing).
Their way or no way at all? How is it that folks in the general public choosing to avoid Treworgy’s because of their stance on same-sex marriage a way the ‘gays’ are forcing their ways on people?
And the point of this article is….?
You seem to underestimate the amount of play this got on Facebook, lot of arguing going out there. Conflict makes stories.
The poll question isn’t very good. I definitely disagree with the sign, and won’t be giving them my business, but of course they have the right to post that sign, and they should be able to if they want.
I’m sure it will be a huge loss.
The old business adage is one unhappy customer tells at least 10 people. You don’t have any idea what the exponential amount of business lose could be.
Yes, but you have to be a customer first. Most liberals are takers (vs. makers) therefore the threat of going somewhere else is hollow at best.
Oh wow! It isn’t only liberals who are for Question 1. And eating apples is not a political issue. And the makers need buyers. You’re exaggeration is almost comical.
“Most liberals are takers (vs. makers) therefore the threat of going somewhere else is hollow at best.”
Unfortunately, you are wrong.
You are right to be concerned. With your firm grip on misconceptions about liberals you could miss reality.
An unhappy customer is not one who disagrees with someone’s beliefs but is someone who feels that service or product was inferior.
An unhappy customer is an unhappy customer. It doesn’t matter what the reason for the unhappiness is. I am a co-owner in two companies and I would NEVER do what the owner of this company did. My personal political views are just that….mine and personal. They are not my businesses views.
So, by your logic, because I am in favor of allowing equal rights and same-sex marriage, I don’t buy apples or visit orchards?
I don’t research every company I purchase from. But if a company goes out of their way to advertise support for something I strongly disagree with, I am not going to continue to be a customer there. It’s a choice, and one I am free to make as a consumer.
Freedom of speech should be freedom on both sides.
what speech is being stifled People are just stating that they are taking their money somewhere else, the vast majority are not condoning their right to put up the sign, just disappointed in the mix of politics and business.
There is free speech from both sides. Free speech isn’t without consequence. They were free to keep the sign up and deal with the consequences. Mixing such a controversial issue with business has bitten them in the butt.
It was….the owner posted a sign and both sides expressed their own opinion. That is “freedom of speech” at its most basic level.
It is but if they lose $$ as a result that’s the famous free market at work.Isn’t that what conservatives want?
I totally support the Treworgy’s right to put up any sign they want.
I am less likely to do business with them knowing they support withholding equal rights from some of our brethren.
For the past 5 years I have taken my daughter to the corn maze and to pick apples and while I support their right to post the sign, I will not return next year.
I totally agree with you. If they put a sign out that said “Vote Yes on Question 1” I would take your same position and not return the following year with my children.
Well said & agreed.
I don’t agree with what the oil companies do to the planet, but I still buy oil.
Unfortunately,they know you have no choice.Unless you live completely off the land and never use a car,oil is in every aspect of your life and they know it.
Right, indeed. My point is that letting your beliefs dictate where you spend your money is generally irrational. I also don’t like Walmart, but I shop there when necessary because its practical. Just cause they treat and think of their workers as “Peasants” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop buying this delicious Everything Loaf breadthing they have there.
If you go to a dentist just because he is a christian or straight or black or white, he might not do the best job. You shouldnt pick and choose where you shop or do whatever simply because of disagreements about social issues. Its folly.
Because more than likely, you have to. It’s different.
They can put up all the signs they want, it’s free speech! But I and many other of their customers will never shop their again!
and they will also pick up some new customers like chick-fil-a did.
My family will be making the trip there from now on, despite the extra hour of travel!
You’re going to have to buy a lot of apples to make up for all the offended people. I suggest freezing them in the form of applesauce. Or drying them. Or maybe you could buy a cider press! The possibilities are endless!
But it’s a small family farm that can’t absorb the effects of alienating customers as opposed to a national business that can support its franchises with an uptick in business from stores in the Bible belt. Maybe next time they will think twice when they decide to post pro-segregation signs on a property that asks for community-wide support.
Segregation? Question 1 is about the segregation of gays?
yes it is. by denying them the same basic rights heterosexual couples have you are making them separate them from the rest of population.
what they want the right to pay child support, spousal supprt, paying for an divorce,they will have a LOT more to pay for then they do now.
yes nothing good come without a cost.
Don’t forget the marriage tax penalty…
pro-segregation????? hahahahaha
And I can tell you, my neighborhood Chick-fil-a is nowhere as busy as it used to be. Is it a ghost town, no, but they really no longer need their double drive thru, and there is plenty of parking now.
Sure about that? Is that the only reason you’d go there?
That is also your right. Hopefully you won’t be attacked for expressing that right as the Treworgy were for expressing theirs. Tolerance should go both ways.
Treworgy’s is a business in rural Maine putting up political signs. It could have gone either way, but businesses and controversial political topics are just not a good match…like Na+O=Combustion! (pure sodium + oxygen = combustion; business + politics = bad reactions)
I’m not really seeing how they are being attacked. People are pointing out that the sign points to bigotry and they won’t shop there anymore. Not exactly an attack. Call me when someone sets their farm on fire.
I never attacked them don’t even know who they are! Yes Mr Grunpy I was already attacked :( Someone came into my yard and ripped up my Michaud sign and kicked over my garden bunny and broke it, I’m mad they killed my Bunny Rabbit!!!
SSM supporters are the LEAST tolerant people…this is just an example. I am against SSM but I still buy Stonewall Kitchen products.
Oh really? I respect your right for it but a ridiculous opinion.
and they will also gain some new customers!
I am actually VERY disappointed they took it down.
I’m pretty sure when I drove by an hour ago it was still up.
It is an interesting sign or at least the words are.
At one time in our country, I believe only a white male, who had reached the age of 21 and owned land, could vote. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country.This was redefined.
At one time in our country, I believe Native American’s were not allowed to vote. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country. This has been redefined.
At one time in our country, a literacy test and a poll tax were required in order to vote.
People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country. This has been redefined.
At one time in our country, a member of the Negroid race was not allowed to marry a member of the Caucasian race. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country. This has been redefined.
At one time in our country, women were not allowed into medical school. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country. This has been redefined.
At one time in our country, native born Americans of Asian ancestry, were placed into prison camps. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country. This was redefined.
At one time in our country, our schools, our colleges, our universities, our restaurants, our barber shops, our hospitals, our military, our beaches, our amusement parks, our stores, our dentist, our public bathrooms and water fountains,our professional sports teams, our fire and police departments, our cemeteries and even our side of town was segregated. People strongly believed this would protect their state and their country.This was redefined.
I don’t need to keep going. I can write here all night long. More than likely, all the people mentioned above, who strongly believed they were protecting something, would have placed one of these sorry signs on their front lawn also.
I hope one day soon, I can write, that at one time in our country only a man and a woman = a marriage. Because people strongly believed they were protecting something and this too was redefined.
did anyone actually read this long winded statement? I didn’t and don’t care to.
Because it’s factual history?
Apparently you don’t like to hear the truth???
I didn’t
ADD, eh?
At one time in our country, people had the right to free speech, and with that the right to express an opinion that may not necessarily be popular with everyone without being villified…I could go on.
They have the right to post whatever signs they like- others have the right to not patronize their business anymore.
Of course they do. Regardless, in this day and age it is not smart business knowing that many people are much more tolerant of everyone’s choices in life and offending someone who’s choices have nothing to do with you personally might cost you some customers.
That works BOTH ways. For or against.
Mr. T is in good company as the yes votes hav a 50% lead over the no votes above.
LOL, yes because that is a real scientific pol…lmao
then they might only loose 50% of their business – such a wise business practice. good luck with next years crop sales.
There is a big difference between patronizing the business and attacking them on facebook. Next time I’m in Levant I’ll go out of my way to support them !
Yes, because lord knows, being attacked on FACEBOOK is a fate worse than death.
If, “I am not going to your place anymore” is attacking, then I want more Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses attacking me…
So it is O.K to attack a gay person on facebook?
didn’t know they attacked “gay” people. I thought they were saying the didn’t support re-defining marriage. Attacking a “gay” person is say youre wrong for being gay.
Saying, “If you’re gay, you shouldn’t be legally allowed to marry” is a pretty aggressive attack, and one that isn’t confined to Facebook.
My definition of marriage doesn’t “redefine” yours, and yours doesn’t “redefine” mine. I acknowledge your right to marry the way you want, and I’m not interested in having your ideas of marriage inform how I live my life. The fact that I’m heterosexual has no bearing on this–I would be no more or less amenable to inviting your “definition” of marriage influence my relationships if I loved anyone other than the woman I love.
The issue isn’t “redefinition,” it is denying the right to marry to some people while allowing it for others. If you say to a person, “You are not allowed to marry the person you’re in love with, but you may marry a person of the other sex,” you are providing unequal rights under the law, based on gender. It’s discriminatory, it’s hateful, it’s obsolescent middle-ages thinking, and it’s an unrealistic attempt to control the lives of others.
Marriage has been redefined before. If it hadn’t been, then a man’s wife would still be his property.
it is now
Where did you come up with that??
You’ave yet to demonstrate any “attack” at all.
Let’s talk about women.
Link to video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODbn5GTkOQ
for a business it coule be
Staking them on Facebook ?
lol
You don’t understand business or public relations any better than the
Treworgys do you ?
free speech is aright everyione has it is a 2 way street… they used theirs by putting up a sign; other used theirs by posting on face book. BOTH were using their right to free speech.
I fully support their right to freely express their opinions. I stand strong on my right to object that their opinions are hateful, bigoted, controlling, and contrary to intelligent thought.
Isn’t ‘attacking’ them, or merely registering one’s opinion, on their Facebook page just another example of free speech? The freedom to speak out on a controversial subject does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of that speech. Their personal beliefs should remain just that, unless they are prepared for any and all consequences to their business as a result of making that personal opinion public. They have every right to post that sign, and I have every right to tell them and anyone else I want to that they are wrong-headed and that I will never support their business again.
Occupy Facebook then.
me too
Free speech. Because I don’t agree with their business practices or views, I have the right to express those views (free speech). After all, the business is the one who decided to enter the political arena. With that said, though I don’t agree with them, I support their right to express what they believe as well.
If they didn’t want to offend half of their customers, they should have been smart enough to not put up a political sign. Any political sign, whether for Romney, Obama, Yes or No, would offend a lot of their customers.
Most business people are smart enough to not get their business associated with a controversial political issue — unless, of course, they want to drive customers away.
Same here, all my family will too.
Letting them know we will no longer patronize their business isn’t an attack.
It’s called caving. If the family had the courage of their convictions they would have kept the sign up. They have the right to free speech and they also have the right to take the sign down or put it up as they choose. Everyone has the right to either patronize a business or not. What is your point here….
If they had any business sense, they would not deliberately offend half of their customers by associating their business with a controversial political issue.
Boycotting a business is also a form of free speech.
Since almost everyone is on one side of this issue or the other and tends to feel fairly strongly about whichever side they support, should we ALL boycott businesses owned by those of the opposing view? Would it be the right thing for me (a “NO on one” supporter) to boycott all businesses who have a “YES on one” sign in front of them. Is that really who we are? The right of free speech is an important one, but shouldn’t we all be a little more tolerant than to boycott all those we disagree with?
If that business was actively campaigning to keep basic rights from you, then you’d be crazy to purposely spend your money there.
I assume that you haven’t been on the other side of discrimination, where people are putting up signs telling you directly that you are not as good as them. Until you are on this side, you have no idea what it is like.
If I find out that a company is spending time or money to discriminate against me or people that I care about, I will stop doing business there. Knowing that my money could be going to a cause that will directly harm me, makes no sense.
you miss the definition of ” discrimmination” .. in this case it does not apply.. if they had a sign that said no gays allowed.. well ok .. but they had a sign that encourage folks to vote a certain way on a political issue.. it happens to include gay lifestyle.. not discrimmination.. but you still shouldn’t go there.. you probable couldn’t find Levant anyway
If your going to try and put someone down….at the very least, spell it correctly. *Probably*
BTW, it’s “you are” or “you’re” NOT “your.” Don’t throw stones.
To prevent gay people from marrying is discrimination.
No it’s not. It’s just not legal.
Yes, it is. Denying a person a basic human right based on something he or she cannot control is discrimination, no matter what the law says.
You miss the point. If customers are offended, the customers have a right to take their business elsewhere. If the Treworgys had better business sense, the would not deliberately offend a large portion of the state of Maine by associating their business with a controversial issue on which Mainers are deeply divided.
I’m a straight married guy who is offended by the political position this business has taken. If they want to lose customers, that’s up to them, but it’s not good business to deliberately offend so many people.
Apparently you’re getting desperate, as evidenced by that last sentence. Nice to know that I don’t have to waste time arguing with you.
“…but shouldn’t we all be a little more tolerant than to boycott all those we disagree with?”
Perhaps you should direct that question to “One Million Moms” who are proponents of boycotting: 7-Eleven, Abercrombie & Fitch, American Airlines, American Girl, Blockbuster Video, Burger King, Calvin Klein, Carl’s Jr., Clorox, Comcast, Crest, Ford, Hallmark Cards, K-Mart, Kraft Foods, S.C. Johnson, Movie Gallery, Microsoft, MTV, Mary Kay, NurtiSystem, Old Navy, IKEA, Sears, Pampers, Proctor & Gamble, Target, Tide, Walt Disney Company and PepsiCo.
a lot of good “one Million Moms’ has done. All those companies are still in business and doing very well. Their campaign against Ellen failed miserably
You forgot Chik-fil-A. Oh, yeah.. that boycott worked.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Opinion becomes discrimination when it infringes upon another person’s civil rights.
To disagree with someone is part of life. No one is boycotting Treworgy for the way they part their hair, or for something they said. Folks are acknowledging Tregworgy’s public speech (the sign) and responding in kind (the boycott).
Perhaps, but that’s a chaoice each of us makes on our own.
their are limits on free speech. That isn’t the issue. If I wanted to stand outside of a GLBT business boycotting their vote no on question 1 sign what would the GLBT community do? They would respond that I was a gay hater. Basically I’m wrong because of my belief. And don’t use blcks and women as a rallying cry. No one is denying but expressing their disagreement with your cause.
First, I doubt an LGBT business would have a no on one sign, so I’m going to assume you meant a yes on one sign. Second, yes, protesting equal rights for same sex couples would get you rightly labeled a “gay hater’. Third, that would still be your right to do, but it is also a person’s right to ridicule you for backwards beliefs.
you’re right. However why be disrespectful. “Backwards beliefs”? why did you need to say backwards? And why do you say “rightly” labeled a gay hater? I don’t hate gays. I don’t support redefining marriage. I have gay friends. I don’t like to see them discriminated against. However I don’t support redefining my beliefs. Lets find a way that gives everyone what they want?
Yes, I meant yes, I appreciate you correcting that.
“However why be disrespectful.” – Because, reading the rest of your post, it’s clear that you do not respect my rights as an American citizen.
“why did you need to say backwards?” – Because your beliefs are backwards.
” And why do you say “rightly” labeled a gay hater? I don’t hate gays.” – You just hate their rights.
“I have gay friends.” – Then you are a terrible friend. I know that if someone told me that I should not have equal rights and that I was a lesser person because I am gay, I would no longer consider that person a friend.
‘I don’t like to see them discriminated against.” – Then why are you helping to discriminate against them?
“However I don’t support redefining my beliefs. ” – You don’t have to. Your church won’t be forced to do anything different. But it is clear that you are not content with that. Instead, you want to force your belief on millions of gays and lesbians in this country.
“Lets find a way that gives everyone what they want? ” – That way is legal marriage for same sex couples.
If I seemed too confrontational in my other replies, I apologize. However, I would like you to take the time to read an article that sums up how I feel about this issue.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/02/if-you-oppose-marriage-equality-what-else-am-i-supposed-to-call-you/
I appreciate that. I was not personally offended. I will take the time to read the article.
You are one of the few anti ssm people I have enjoyed reading a post from. You are not offensive in your posts but I can understand how crs could have a knee-jerk reaction as I have done the same thing myself and then felt badly afterward. The fact you will read the article crs posted shows a willingness on your part to see the other sides point of view. I thank you for that. So many antis reject ssm without even thinking about it and for the most ridiculous reasons. Religion, bigotry and plain stupidity are the reasons I find most objectional.
Great article. You can disagree with an individual and still respect them. I respect everyone who is for or against this issue.
Most business owners understand something about public relations.
No smart business owner deliberately offends half of his/her customers by associating the business with a controversial political issue. If the business owner is dumb enough to display a sign that is likely to offend half the people in the state, that business will probably lose a lot of customers. It’s as simple as that.
Sad isn’t it. Corporate money in politics is free speech. But deeply felt love shared with another human being is not worthy of that same protection under the law. The absurdity is pathetic.
LOVE ????? are you kidding me ? there it is again.. the gays love everyone . everything , everywhere .. .unless of course you don’t agree with them .. then they let the pitbulls out to chew the heck out of whoever may be against their lifestyle… love ? what a croak
we learned from the best of them…FAF, One Million Moms and the list goes on…
Paul, I’m a straight guy, married for 33 years.
I have the freedom, under Maine law, to marry the adult person I’m attracted to and who I love.
But my gay or lesbian neighbor does not have the freedom, under Maine law, to marry the adult person he or she is attracted to and loves. That’s how love factors into the question.
Because my neighbors don’t have the same freedoms I have, they don’t get the same tax breaks I get, and they lose out on a lot of other laws that benefit me as a married person. And their relationship doesn’t get the same respect mine gets.
I think we should all be treated equally and fairly under the law — my gay or lesbian neighbor should have the same freedoms I have. So I will vote “Yes” for simple fairness.
Hey now, don’t discriminate against Pit Bulls. What’d they do to you? Sheesh.
yes, everyone has the right to free speech, but you had better be prepared for the consequences when you exercise it….
does anyone want to join me in boycotting GLBT businesses that support question 1? I bet not, why? Because it is almost a “hate crime”,politically incorrect…….
Basically what you are saying is that democrats are monsters and I would have to agree with you after this disgusting show of contempt.
I’ll repeat what I said to think911: This is a simple issue of common business sense. I once owned a small business, and know something about this.
Smart business owners don’t deliberately offend their customers by associating their business with controversial political issues. If you put a sign in front of your business supporting a political candidate or a controversial issue, you should expect to lose a lot of customers. It’s just a matter of business sense.
At your place of business, do a good job of whatever your business is. Be political somewhere else.
Put the sign (whatever sign it is) in front of your house, not your business, unless you really, really want to lose customers. If your business is in your home, then have enough business sense to not put up a sign — yes or no, Obama or Romney or whoever — that is going to drive business away. Unless, of course, you want to drive business away.
Just join up with “One Million Moms” and the AFA. They’ll provide you with the list.
Oh to heck with it. Here it is: 7-Eleven, Abercrombie & Fitch, American Airlines, American Girl, Blockbuster Video, Burger King, Calvin Klein, Carl’s Jr., Clorox, Comcast, Crest, Ford, Hallmark Cards, K-Mart, Kraft Foods, S.C. Johnson, Movie Gallery, Microsoft, MTV, Mary Kay, NurtiSystem, Old Navy, IKEA, Sears, Pampers, Proctor & Gamble, Target, Tide, Walt Disney Company and PepsiCo.
What’s your point? You don’t socialize with people you don’t like if they don’t share the same ideals you do, so what’s different about not patronizing a store who’s values don’t match yours?
“does anyone want to join me in boycotting GLBT businesses …”
“What’s your point?”
Just thought I’d help you out by giving you the “authorized” boycott list from AFA/One Million Moms.
Sorry, I didn’t know if this was a cynical remark or not. I appologize if you were being helpful and I took it wrong-got caught up in the nastiness on here. :)
go right ahead…
Smart business owners don’t deliberately associate their business with controversial political issues. I once owned a small business, and know something about this. If you put a sign in front of your business supporting a political candidate or a controversial issue, you should expect to lose a lot of customers. It’s just a matter of business sense.
If you are in the business of selling apples, sell apples — and do a good job of selling apples.
Put the sign (whatever sign it is) somewhere else, not in front of your business, unless you really, really want to lose customers.
Go for it if you want to. Your choice.
No one has taken their freedom of speech away.
They buckled to the consequences of their own speech.
Seems they should have thought this through a little more.
Exactamundo.
One man’s “vilification” IS another man’s free speech.
Haven’t you learned that yet from Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and most of the GOP?
well on the other hand you have what channel is the Liberal commentators MSNBC? Remember rhetoric can come from either.
On the other hand the subject you raised was vilification in the presence of free speech.
Most business people are smart enough to know that if they put up political signs they are likely to offend about half of their customers.
That’s why most businesses are smart enough to not do this — it doesn’t matter wwhether it’s a Romney sign, an Obama sign, or whatever. Half of their customers will disagree.
If they didn’t want political fallout, they should have been smart enough to not put up olitical signs.
Why is it that people demand you be tolerant of their lifestyle, show total intolerance if you don’t agree with everything they say and do. What a bunch of hypocrites.
This is not a free speech issue. This is a discrimination and bigotry issue.
We still have those rights… but everyone has them including the people who choose to boycott businesses who make political or religious public statements of their views . You can’t suppress one without suppressing all… so, Treworgy said what they wanted to say and those who oppose their view said what they wanted to say… end of story. No one said they have to take their sign down… they can do whatever they please including leaving the sign up. My guess is that they took it down because while it may be important to them that the public know how they feel on that issue, maybe it’s more important to them not to lose customers over it. I think theirs was a simple business decision to take it down… not a matter of any kind of suppression or denial of rights to free speech.
That’s awesome! It gives incest and bestiality an upcoming chance.
“At one time in our country, we were a nation of morals.”
Sounds like you are champing at the bit for some bestiality Eric.
Yes, at one time we were a nation of morals…..back when the “rule of thumb” applied to marriage (a man could beat his wife but the stick could not be thicker than his thumb); the woman was the property of the man and had no rights of her own, including to the children she birthed; a wife could not inherit any of her husband’s property and had to depend upon her children to support her.
yeah of course your right.. beat her, disrespect her, step on her, maim her.. you need to take a bath .. I can smell you from here, you stink of lies and deceit you are morally corrupt and involved where you shouldn’t be.. so here’s a challenge.. prove what you just posted.. back it up with evidence of exactly who when and where… I can start you out with the Bible .. oh go back 5000 years or so .. see if you can find it there and then move forward until you do.. good luck
Say huh?
you know, when we look at history we look at it with today’s lens. We were a country of morals. Primarily driven by religion. You’re right in what you say. However you make it seem that everyone beat their wife, every man thought of his wife as proeprty etc. It isn’t true. It is true to the extent of the law, but not in practice. Many husbands recognized the e of their wife, the wives ran the hosuehold. Children were raised by mothers, not left in day care. They were taught lessonby their parents. There were many positives to the old way. Why did Lincole free the slaves? Beause he thought slavery was wrong? No, he freed slaves in states in rebellion agasint the US sole purpose of expanding the Union Army.The draft was not popular.
With every change toward equality another group suffers. I want GLBT to have the same opportunities as everyone else. However, is it fair for the Christians and other religions to loose their values? Did discrimination stop because of the law? No. I know many who dislike blacks.
Religion was the worst thing that ever happened to God.
“However, is it fair for the Christians and other religions to loose (sic) their values?”
Exactly how will the enacting of a civil law cause one of faith to lose their values? If it is a strong enough belief, then it shouldn’t be affected by secular laws. Example: Elaine Graham, of Farmington, feels women should keep their breast covered in public, it’s part of her “values”. In fact, she made it very clear on the day of that “Topless March”. It is legal, in the state of Maine, for women to be topless in public. Did the fact that that law is in effect cause Ms. Graham to lose her “values”?
Eric… we passed that already… but no worries there is more to come..God’s Law doesn’t make the cut with these folks… they twist it to fit their needs.. we used to say hate the sin love the sinner.. not anymore… they are as hateful as it gets if you don’t agree with them .. eventually though they , too, will be judged.. not by us.. that would the easy way for them.. this little incident proves a much bigger point… they , collectively are mean spirited, and hateful, while they accuse all who don’t agree with as being full of hate, it is they who hate.. it’s a deeper problem than they realize ..
Not everyone believes in your god or your so called god’s law. Also, please tell me where the saying hate the sin, love the sinner comes from because it is nowhere to be found in your bible.
Wow! That’s first-rate self-projection there mister. Nice job!
You may believe that it is God’s law, but understand that many people suspect it is only man’s opinion on God and what God thinks. No one ever claimed that God actually wrote the Bible, though he is supposed to have directly written the Ten Commandments in stone, not trusting to let Moses write it.
Now Mohammed had an interesting story. He claimed that God wrote the Koran and gave it to him personally. Some people have doubts about that story as well.
It would be impossible to prove that God, any god , had anything to do with any of the holy books in existence, that is only a matter of belief of the believers in various religions. An interesting fact is that though out most of the history of religion, there were no holy books at all. The priesthood just asked God directly. Of course one could never be completely certain that all of the priesthood was honest either.
In still older stories we are told that God walked among the people and told them what He thought, but unfortunately that has not happened in a long time, so we have no way to check how accurate any present day holy book may be. So it is left only to our personal opinion, I would guess. Of course each of us could ask directly. You might try that for your own life. That is what I do about my own life.
A great example one of these “peaceful people” sent me:
“crs5012723 wrote, in response to Eric J Foster:Back when those bl__k, women, and qu__rs knew their place, right?”
Thank you, CRS, for showing just how ignorant your kind is.
It seems you are the one ignorant of history. You are the one pining for the “good ole’ days” where all those pesky little minorities knew their place and where women stayed in the kitchen. You are just upset that us queers won’t just take your bullying anymore. I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is, that scared feeling that your side is losing is normal. The bad news is that feeling isn’t going away any time soon.
Bestiality was legal in Maine not that long ago and from what I’ve heard incest is still alive and well in Maine.
Dont forget Necrophilia. They’ll get you for diggin’ em up, but they can’t get you for lovin’ em up.
If the Yes on 1 Vote goes through, and marriage is re-defined (and I sure hope it is), then I guess the “at one time in our country, we were a nation of morals”, then I guess that time would be NOW.
Voting Yes on #1.
EXACTLY…things change. They used to burn witches at the stake, out of FEAR of the unknown. Most everything that is opposed is out of FEAR. Fear drives most religions. Everyone keeps referring to “The Bible says….”. Last I knew the Bible was a book written to help guide people. I don’t think that if you go and look LAWS that the Bible is what you will find. America has much larger issues to deal with than who someone chooses to spend their life with. It’s HOW you live your life, not WHO you live your life with
You might also add that at one time, the religion followed by one of the candidates for president believed that marriage was between one man and as many women as he chose to wed….that was redefined. And in the bible used to defend the opposition’s stance, all the patriarchs had multiple wives, not one woman. But the bible is useful only in certain instances (when it supports one’s fears and bigotry, for example) but is ignored in other instances; otherwise we would still have men with harems and concubines….you know, “marriage.”
Marriage is an oppressive form of slavery; marriage should simply be abolished – then no one can complain.
Spoken by someone who’s unfortunately never loved unconditionally, it seems.
You quote factual history, for many men in historic biblical times did in fact have multiple wives. Or, do you believe the Bible to be just a fairy tale? If you believe the truth of the historical aspects of the Bible, you must also believe the story of Jesus’ birth, death, and resurrection, and his call on you and me to repent of our sins and follow Him. If that is the case, you should do a little more reading before making accusations against others.
The historical truth is that men had multiple wives, and there are numerous examples of how their lives were not blessed by God because of this choice. Look at the envy between Sarah and her servant, the mother of Ishmael, who is credited with being the mother of the Arabs of today. Perhaps if Abraham had relied on God’s plan – as in Adam and Eve – there would not be the strife amongst Israel and the Arab world today. Cause and effect. Just because some people in the Old Testament did things in a way of their choosing does not mean that their choice was correct. The poor folks in Sodom and Gomorrah certainly learned their lesson the hard way.
By “poor folks” do you mean Lot, the “moral” man in Sodom who offered his daughters to be raped? Or do you just mean his daughters who, after leaving Sodom, got their father drunk and raped him?
Exactly – I’m sure they really felt they were doing the right thing, and their lives continue to be such a blessing to them. NOT! Of course, the rest of the inhabitants, didn’t fare as well…. Subject: [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’ sign after Facebook flap
And yet, even after Lot OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS TO BE RAPED, god said “Yep, this is the moral person I want to save”
Obviously, God had a purpose for Lot, or we wouldn’t know anything about him. The same could be said of you or I. We are actually no better in God’s eyes, and I assume neither of us has raped anyone. Subject: [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’ sign after Facebook flap
That doesn’t change the ‘fact’ that, in the bible, god considered a man WHO OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS TO BE RAPED a moral person.
Are you attempting to judge God, or His decisions? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone. From : Disqus Subject : [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’sign after Facebook flap crs5012723 wrote, in response to Ninelake: That doesn’t change the ‘fact’ that, in the bible, god considered a man WHO OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS TO BE RAPED a moral person. Link to comment Ninelake wrote: Obviously, God had a purpose for Lot, or we wouldn’t know anything about him. The same could be said of you or I. We are actually no better in God’s eyes, and I assume neither of us has raped anyone. Subject: [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’sign after Facebook flap —– Options: Reply with “Like”to like this comment, or respond in the body to post a reply comment. To turn off notifications
When “god” judges rape to be moral but same sex marriage to immoral, then yes, I am judging god.
Are you attempting to judge God, or His decisions? Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone. From : Disqus Subject : [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’sign after Facebook flap crs5012723 wrote, in response to Ninelake: That doesn’t change the ‘fact’ that, in the bible, god considered a man WHO OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS TO BE RAPED a moral person. Link to comment Ninelake wrote: Obviously, God had a purpose for Lot, or we wouldn’t know anything about him. The same could be said of you or I. We are actually no better in God’s eyes, and I assume neither of us has raped anyone. Subject: [bdn] Re: Treworgy family farmers take down ‘No on 1’sign after Facebook flap —– Options: Reply with “Like”to like this comment, or respond in the body to post a reply comment. To turn off notifications
(sarcasm duly noted) You know, sometimes porn is just porn – there’s a lot of it in the Old Testament. People have loved their naughty little stories for ages. The “moral” lesson is…”don’t try to run a government based upon people’s porn stashes from thousands of year ago.”
Here, here!
This is regurgitated sloganeering.
What about the Chicago Leather Museum or the WINEVILLE CHICKEN COOP MURDERS?
This is regurgitated sloganeering without any new thinking.
Please tell the public why they should put sex acts which are intrinsically harmful and immoral on a par with marriage, which is a wholesome, life-giving institution.
It is not marriage. It is the opposite of marriage — anti-marriage if you will.
Or would someone just prefer to delete my remarks once again?
“Please tell the public why they should put sex acts which are intrinsically harmful and immoral on a par with marriage,…”
So, in your interpretation marriage is all about the sex acts? Hmmm… must be interesting in your home (not that I wish to be privy to that scenario).
So the conclusion here, amongst many, is that this is all about….equal rights, the right to marry the person of your choice.
If that is so, one should be able to marry his brother, sister, father mother, dog, etc, whatever. All those are currently prohibited by Maine state law.
To those of you who claim it is about…equal rights…….do you think a person ought to have the right to marry his sister, his brother, his mother etc, or do you think those prohibitions should still stand. Do you insist in removing all prohibitions currently existing in Maine law? Wouldn’t that action, and that action only, truly give equal rights to all?
It looks to me like the movement here wants “equal rights” granted only to a few, not eveybody as they say.
I support laws that give rights, not take them away.
Whose right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is taken away when someone else has a right to marry?
I would like to present a few thoughts on this subject. This is in response to Jotoh, and many
others who may take his position.
First of all you have presented your arguments for
redefining off of racial discrimination, not sexual preference.
People of ethnicity did not choose to be of a specific color
or heritage, while people of the same sex choose to be sexually involved with
the same gender.
Your argument is weak at best.
No one is saying that people cannot be sexually involved
with the same sex, what we are saying is that Marriage is between a man and a
woman, and furthermore should not be redefined.
Whether people of the opposite opinion disagree with that or
not is not the point, it’s the fact that people for same sex marriage think
that only their voice should be heard, and the Christian perspective should be
silenced.
Imagine a Christian coming to your place of residence and
making you pull a sign from your home? What do you think would happen?
I think we all know what kind rhetoric would come from the
opposite side if that scenario were to take place, so let’s not even argue
that!
So let’s look at some facts. Fact number one…we the people
of Maine have already rejected this change in our Maine constitution in more
than one election.
Two: the fact that a gay couple came to a place of business
and put up a stink about their beliefs, and in turn made them take down their
sign was in-fact a violation of their free speech, and honestly harassment.
Three: this would not have been tolerated if a Christian
person was to do the same thing to a person who was a homosexual, and in-fact
would be charged with harassment and most likely violating a person’s right to
free speech. I would call the ACLU but they don’t help God fearing Christians
who believe in Jesus and their Country.
Four: Why is it that it’s not intolerance when the liberal
agenda is being pushed, but a violation of free speech and intolerance when it
is a Christians’? I think more than a little one sided.
This country was founded upon Biblical beliefs. Whether you
choose not to believe this or not, we are the last nation on this earth that is
truly a sovereign nation, and that is not because of liberal agendas and
socialistic perspectives. It is those philosophies that are destroying the
foundation of our Great Nation.
We are One Nation Under God, though the liberal agenda’s has
taken the path to take God out of our schools and replace it with evolution.
They have taken God out of the courts, and that’s why
criminals have more power and freedom than those they commit crimes
against. They took the Pledge of
Allegiance out of school and replaced it with a pledge to Obama, and if you
want I will post the link for you.
You have the right to vote, and live however you want to
live, but marriage my friend is for one man and one woman.
I find it
ridicules that two gay men want to get married and have a child, and yet the
human anatomy doesn’t permit them two so they need a man and a woman to produce
a child for them so they can adopt him/her.
Whether you want to admit it or not…you are wrong, gay
marriage is wrong, abortion and killing unborn babies is wrong, socialism is
wrong, a welfare state is wrong, taking God out of our schools, judicial
system, and government is wrong, and destroying our Constitution is wrong.
Did I miss anything?
This from the people who preach diversity and acceptance………of course until they are disagreed with.
You are mixing and matching all kinds of american values and coming up with succotash.
It’s like people no longer understand what free speech is all about anymore. Clearly the supreme ‘s don’t. He expressed his free speech right; so did others.That is awhat free speech is all about —- FREE to DEBATE . FREE to disagree. We ALL have free speech rights. Free speech doesn’t mean free from critcism or controversy or a response. He has every right to post a sign.I agree 15,000 post to a face book page is abet excessive BUT it too is free speech.
Newsflash – freedom of speech is only protected if you have the correct viewpoint.
Freedom of speech is alive and well in Levant. Free speech exercised by the orchard owners via the sign; free speech exercised by the folks boycotting them.
I’m gonna take my ball and go home if you don’t play the game the way I want you to. Wahhhhhhhh.
ok
My point exactly!
Freedom of speech, like all freedom, is only protected if you act to protect it. Mr. Treworgy acted to protect his, and the facebook users acted to protect theirs.
Newsflash —-free speech is a 2-way street, INTENED to promote debate ON controversial subjects. Don’t want debate? Stay out of the kitchen called american politics.
I don’t think so. I think the real take away is that business owners attach their personal political views to their brand at their peril.
I don’t understand why it was up in the first place. I have my own business and I would never put up any political signs. I also never discuss politics or religion with my clients for this very reason. I have seen business shut down because of the stance they took on a particular issue…
This is because you are a smart business owner :) Keep up the good work!
Yep – suppress free speech! Keep up the good work….
Just as owners separate themselves from businesses for liability, they must sometimes separate their opinions from the public. It’s not necessarily right, but why needlessly alienate a portion of your customer base when you could just as easily keep your opinion to yourself and vote as you see fit?
Again, I don’t think it’s right that someone should have to do that, but that’s the way the world works. Sometimes you shut up and deal with the fact that the customer is always right, even if they are wrong. :)
A timely illustration of the intimidation faced by Mainers who express viewpoints not approved by hard-core progressives.
Yawn.
I hope that in the next article, that Gary Treworgy holds to his faith and stands his ground and puts the sign back up!
We all need to speak out against the abomination and immoral ways of the gay lifestyle, let alone letting them corrupt the sanctity of marriage.
Plain and simple God made man and woman to be together
“letting them corrupt the sanctity of marriage”….really? I am pretty sure that happened a long time ago. Have you not seen the divorce rate lately? I can understand having an opinion about this topic (we are all entitled), and there’s many arguments on both sides that I can understand but of all the “no” arguments, this one makes the least amount of sense.
As of 7:30 am it was still there.
The Pink Mafia strikes again.
Nobody, made him take his sign down, he did it because it was hurting business. He made a choice when he put the sign up, he found it to be a bad one. By putting the sign up he invited responds, he got more then he bargained for!
The huge amount of public outcry forced him to take the sign down, actually. Had no-one said anything it would still be there. Not like there aren’t about a thousand NO and YES signs everywhere, either…
I hope that in the next article, that Gary Treworgy holds to his faith and stands his ground and puts the sign back up!
We all need to speak out against the abomination and immoral ways of the gay lifestyle, let alone letting them corrupt the sanctity of marriage.
Plain and simple God made man and woman to be together
Amen! Another case of PC run amuck!
This is just a taste of what’s to come IF the “Yes” vote were to pass.
If this story had been the other way around – a business displayed a “Yes on 1” sign and dozens of patrons threatened to boycott the business because of their views on SSM then the gay crowd would be in an uproar.
Heaven forbid that a business owner expresses an opinion. The Yes on 1 crowd is just as hypocritical as can be. They claim they want “equality” and “tolerance” but only when the opinion expressed is in theirs.
My family loves Treworgy Farms.They are nicest people around. Most people in business know enough not to harm their business by taking a side on such a hotly debated issue-or quite frankly any other one. I strongly disagree with their position, but respect their view. What you have here are some really naive hard working farmers who just don’t understand the ramifications of taking a political position. They probably socialize and attend church or other activities with other like minded folks. The only way that one could be shocked by the backlash on this issue is to live in a very closed world. That does not make these people evil. Farmers across the country are known for being conservatives. I’m not sure that most will want to fill out a questionnaire before selling produce to the rest of us. By the next harvest people will forget and forgive if they as open minded as they want the Treworgys to be.
You have a pretty condescending view of the people who keep you from going hungry, now don’t you? They must be “naive” and “probably (only) socialize and attend church or other activities with like-minded folks.”
Pretty narrow-minded of you. In fact, most of the farmers I know fall on the left of the political spectrum, be they small farmers in Maine or big-time farmers in the Dakotas. That certainly doesn’t mean that ALL farmers are liberals. Just most of the ones I know.
You should probably stop your stereotyping.
You’re right-I did over do that point. However last night on the news one of the family members stated that she would be “prayerfully”considering their options. As I said-nice people with a pretty limited view of the world.
I wouldn’t blame the whole family. It was probably just grandpa, who listens to Rush Limbaugh all day got all het up about the freaks and weirdos taking over the planet.
Where do you get off calling the Treworgy family “naive”? I am sure they know exactly what their position is and don’t need you explaining anything for them. You remind me of the current president talking about clinging to Bibles and toting guns. Somehow you look down on others for some reason and feel that you somehow are superior.
Yes-naive. Mr. Treworgy had no idea what the ramifications of taking a political and religious stand on such a hot issue would be. That’s naive.
He has a right to put up his sign and consumers have a right to do business elsewhere.
Is everyone boycotting them also boycotting Wal-Mart?
I boycott walmart for other reasons. I have a good friend that works for gay/lesbian non profits, and the local Walmarts are some of their best donors. It’s better for them to give at a local level then at corporate, less likely to anger the rednecks.
Yes, and many other small and large businesses.
good one!
“…..we are convinced that marriage is defined by a higher power than civil government.” This is the problem, ever go to a wedding where the Preist, pastor, Justice of the Peace didn’t say, ” By the power invested in me by the State of Maine, I now pronounce you, Man and Wife” It is a civil issue and has nothing to do with any Religeous belief or practice. Case closed.
Putting up the sign was a choice they made. They have every right to their opinion but when you own a business and put up a sign like that you have to know that you will get some strong feelings from those who oppose. I for one do not agree with their opinion and I have the right to choose not to stop there anymore.
You’ll be my preferred orchard from now on! Good for you folks for having the courage to express your beliefs.
And you for the ignorance to reply to it !
What is so ignorant?
I would bet good money that this issue has helped the family farm.
I’ve never been but will be this week for sure and spend some money!
Why don’t you just send them a check?
On second thought, better send it to Romney.
It’s not about which party you belong to, you read it the other day a republican friend of Emily Cain is supporting same sex marriage..
You really believe that ol’ Emily has a Republican friend(other than Governor LePage)?
Why not? Many are probably more open than you and your fellow travelers.
“ol’ Emily”??? Seriously???
Nah, my comment was all tongue-in-cheek…just a figure of speech. I know that Emily’s not a senior citizen yet, just meant that she’s been around the political circuit in Augusta a time or two.
Your point?
The Libertarians support marriage equality. Apparently they read the Constitution, something I would encourage ConcernedMainer1 and bangor1234 to do.
Like Mr $250M needs it.If someone does want to send a out a check,I’d rather see it goes to a family in Maine
This is certain proof, if any more was really needed, that any disagreement with certain members of the GLBT movement will cause the more virulent ones to immediately respond with grossly obejectionable dialogue and comments, designed specifically to punish the latest “offender”(in their minds), who dared to disagree with their agenda, and to ultimately cause the offender to “shut up” and keep his opinions to himself.
Neither the sign, nor anyof the people associated with Treworgy’s said anything that could be taken as the slightest derogatory remark about homosexuality or homosexuals. The sign referred to an “opinion” regarding an upcoming political decision that is well known to most every citizen of this state. There are thousands of these same signs all over the state of Maine, just the same as there are thousands of “Vote Yes On One” signs around also.
The movement which not only “wants” acceptance and respect” but “demands it” in every way possible, is harming itself with this outrageous conduct and hatred expressed towards a local company which “dared to display an opinion” (which they had every right in the world to peacefully express!, but which a certain segment of the communtiy decided to take offense at, and express all the outrage they could muster, designed specifically to “punish a business” for having an opinion”.
In reality what they have demonstrated is what a “bunch of loud mouthed jerks” some of them are, and how underserving of any respect this makes them!
If you want “tolerance and respect” shown to you, then you need to be “human enough” to be able to show the same respect to those with whom you disagree.
Way too many “activist members” of the LBGT movement have demonstrated that they need to go back to school, or someplace, and take lessons in “civility” and “public relations” which they have demonstrated, here, a dreadful lack of!
I bet this ourtageous behaviour will cost their movement some votes, and it well should.
Why should any consideration be shown……..towards people who do not know any better way than this……..to deal with folks whom they disagree with. The local GLBT movement has harmed their cause with this!
yuup… just like black folk protesting them lynchings brought more pain and grief down on the black community. the oppressed should just sit quietly and take it, right?
No see it’s totally different. You see Blacks were accousted and lynched 50 years ago, we can all now agree that it was bigotry. What is happening to homosexuals is a modern issue, and therefore it is impolite for those of us who agree with equal rights for all to call the people who seek to supress their rights bigots.
Sarcasm??
Modern issue? Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time. People have just stuck their head in the sand, and pretended it didn’t happen because it wasn’t socially accepted and against the teachings of the Bible. This isn’t some fad.
Actually several “early” cultures openly accepted homosexuality until Christianity came along…..
Actuatlly Christianity came in the New Testament. God destroyed Sodom & Gommorah in the Old Testament, well before the Book of Acts.
Oh – the old fairy tales…
Well, if if you consider it fairy tales, Get it right.
Yet another dishonest misrepresentation about what the story of Sodom & Gommorah means.
Typical.
that was not what I was replying too. The fact is, and you can check it out for yourself is that “Christians” come from the New Testament. So, you are saying that abominations in the eyes of God were not happening in Sodom and Gommorah, and the men of the city did not want to have their way with the Angels in the house. Hmmmm, please let me know what Bible you are reading so I can read a different version that is normally read.
The black community STILL thinks their oppressed. Just listen to ’em. Rev Jesse Jackson Rev Al Sharpton, the Zimmerman case in FLA, are just a few examples.
Whites use drugs five times more than blacks.
Blacks are incarcerated for drug use ten times more than whites.
You don’t suppose there is a reason the black community still thinks they’re (note spelling) oppressed?
Sorry to get off topic.
If homosexuals were being lynched in the street or if they were actually oppressed they would have something to whine about. They are not, and there is a big difference between the way someone looks (black) and someone’s behavior (homosexual).
It’s very helpful that the homosexuals showed some undecided people what they’re really like prior to the election.
Look up the statistics on how many have been bullied,harassed and driven to suicide because they were LGBT.I know you’ll ignore them.And the last time a rich white male heterosexual lost his rights would be …never.
Statistics? How many have been “bullied, harassed, and driven to suicide” for other reasons? They don’t count?
You’re not that special.
You say they’re not that special, yet you seem oddly OBSESSED with them !
I guess they’re just “that special” to you, eh ?
I guess so…but at least I’m fair, I treat them like any other perv.
What about the boy who was lynched by being thrown off the bridge in Bangor a few years back? What about the young man out west who was lynched by being dragged behind a vehicle and left to bleed to death hanging on a fence? I’m sure if you opened your eyes and looked you could find many more times that a person was killed or injured for being a homosexual. Take your head out of the sand.
You people have beat that horse to death. Plenty of normal people are killed every year too, and for no good reason. It certainly is no more of a tragedy if it’s a homosexual than anyone else. Nobody is dragging you out of your home and stringing you up, but if you listen to the homosexuals you’d think so.
Ranger, this happened to them BECAUSE they were gay — your “plenty of normal people” are just that — victims of a crime for whatever reason. Being tortured and killed because of a lifestyle is similar to my being killed because I am a white woman. That’s not a reason, any more than being gay is a reason.
No it isn’t a reason.
But if you were killed it “may” hit the local news, and if it was a homosexual it would be plastered all over the country.
It wasn’t a few years back more like 30. If you have to go back THAT far to find a local example to justify your opinion, maybe it isn’t quite the chronic problem that you suggest?
You are so right. It’s not like Matthew Shepherd was dragged behind a vehicle, beaten and tied to a fence to be left for dead. Or as if Charlie Howard was tossed off a bridge in Bangor. Or as if Mitt Romney hacked off a gay classmates hair while Mitt’s cronies held the boy down.
Nope, homosexuals aren’t being oppressed. Not at all.
(end sarcasm)
Don’t forget all of the “Christian” countries, Uganda for example, that are trying to make being gay punishable by death.
I agree…no sarcasm.
You have to love Mitt.
Strange that you’re claiming that it’s homosexuals that spoke up.
Is the No on One side even capable of telling the truth ?
Does every word of of their supporters mouths have to be a lie ?
I can’t imagine a less on-point diatribe. The Tweworgy’s decided to express their opposition to legalizing gay marriage, which is their right. Other people have expressed that, knowing not just what the Tweworgy’s views are, but that they needed to make this a public statement, they are no longer comfortable supporting their business, which is their right. There isn’t any demanding, or threatening, or outrageous behavior, unless you somehow think that it is demanding or threatening or outrageous to exercise your right to shop where you please and say why.
Your reasoning is the same that demanded that blacks sit at the back of the bus, and say nothing. The same that demanded that women not only accept not being allowed to go to the nation’s best post-high school colleges, but smile and act like a life limited to raising babies and housekeeping is what every woman should want to have. The same that demanded that gays should tolerate being discriminated against, arrested, and even given shock treatments to “cure” their homosexuality as if they were less than human. “Be quiet, be who we command you to be.” White straight men have had their way for a few thousand years. Perhaps it’s your time to be quiet, and do a little listening.
very well said Maine 011
That was amazing.
I believe you are correct. I applaud you. Also of interest, some friends of mine who were leaning toward yes on 1, appear to have now decided to vote no on 1. Some who say they want equality, seem to me to actually want supremacy.
Don’t want to surrender any of your supremacy? So why did your friends decide to switch?
Not worried about my ‘supremacy’, that belongs to a much higher authority. The Treworgy Family has been providing a good product and a friendly atmosphere for many years without many complaints. They “voice” their belief, and suddenly they are pariahs. My friends believe to suddenly attack someone’s livelihood over one issue after years of apparent satisfaction is wrong and want nothing to do with that type of mind set. They believe they too,
have a right to vote as they feel best for them.
Nobody’s livelihood has been “attacked”, and to claim that the Treworgy family are now pariahs over some FB postings is ridiculous.
Nobody made them take the sign down, if you can’t handle opinions expressed on FB, don’t read them or allow people to post to your page.
Pretty simple and basic stuff, so far as using the internet and FB goes.
People who aren’t mature enough to distinguish between an “attack” and people simply expressing their opinions probably should check with their parents before they post online.
I think that to arrive at THAT conclusion, someone would have to be high on bath salts.
Based on your comment, I am lead to believe you are much more an authority on bath salts than I will ever be.
Equality isn’t supremacy. You are no better than ANY gay person.
I know you don’t want to hear it, but tough. It’s a fact. DEAL with it.
And being well informed about a problem like bath salts isn’t something I’m ashamed of in any way. Pride in one’s own ignorance, however, is what’s truly pathetic.
Yes, I see you are also an authority on ‘ignorance and pathetic’. You should also include attempted bullying and name calling.
I did not say equality equaled supremacy, you did, reread the post, it could be an adventure in reading comprehension.
“seem to actually want supremacy.”
Huh??
Supremecy: a philosophy that one is superior to others, to dominate, control or rule those who are not. In other words, I’m heterosexual, which is ‘right’. You’re homosexual, which is ‘wrong’, so I’m going to try and tell you you can’t have the same rights as me. Yup, pretty much fits the definition.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Hmmm. Having the SAME rights as you makes homosexuals superior to you? You don’t understand what the word supremacy means. When did SAME = BETTER? Or do you have such a low opinion of yourself that you are threatened by someone wanting the same rights as you?
Very well stated…..
People refusing to spend their money at an establishment whose owner has diametrically opposing views to theirs is within their right as a consumer. I for one choose not to spend my hard earned money at any business that does not support same sex marriage. I will no longer support those that do not support me. If my rights are not important neither is my money.
That’s why NOM is so paranoid about their list getting out.They know they’d lose thousands of customers if that ever was published.One of the less covered stories is that a lot of the pizza magnates are incredibly rich conservatives who belong to Opus Dei and such.
that is the reason I will be voting NO on 1…
The SCOTUS has said that money is an expression of speech. The owners of the orchard are entirely within their rights to express their view on SSM by posting the sign. By the same token, individuals who disagree are within their rights to take their money (speech) elsewhere. Both sides are expressing their views and are showing the courage of their convictions. While I may disagree with them I give them credit for taking that risk.
It’s inane to blame the entire “GLBT movement” and everything it represents as having anything to do with a Maine ballot initiative.
And it’s silly to claim that “GLBT activists” populate these comments, that’s an obvious outright lie right there.
Agreed!!
Absolutely correct! Married mom, husband and 3 kids all support SSM. Why? It is the right thing to do? Are we an activist family? No, unless you consider supporting civil rights through a few comments on a news blog, or voting for ALL families to be included in the benefits afforded married people by the government. My 76 and 77 year old parents are yes on 1 as well. My mom asked the other day where she could get a yes sign to put outside the house, next to my dad’s Romney sign. LOL, it is inane to use the conspiracy theory…..
Much of the opposition to same-sex marriage is religion-based, which was apparently shown by Treworgy’s Facebook response. There are many non-Christian religions as well as many people who are irreligious. Christianity and politics should not mix. No Christian ‘values’ should guide laws and policies. We may have started out a Christian nation, but we have evolved into a tolerant country, where freedom of religion (as well as speech, yes) is embraced. I thought this guy said it great: http://bangor-launch.newspackstaging.com/2012/10/21/politics/some-catholics-say-yes-to-same-sex-marriage/
“The Bible has no place in our laws,” Breau said. “That’s religion, and I have no right to force my religious beliefs on people who believe differently than me.”He said it’s hypocritical of heterosexuals of Christian faith to say who should and should not be married, given the divorce rate in America.I think it’s rediculous of you to say the GLBT population has ‘harmed their way’. Stirring up controversy and pushing for change has been the only way other minorities have earned their place in this world. Treworgy’s used their freedom of speech to voice their opinion, and the same-sex marriage supporters used theirs to show their opposition of such beliefs. Such as it is.
I’d like to clarify one point in your comment. People who support equality are not necessarily part of the LGBT, or any other ‘community’. We are Mainers who believe in individual freedoms and equality of law as guaranteed by the Constitution.
Briefly, in response to your 3rd paragraph regarding ‘punishing a business’, those folks have as much right to peacefully boycott Treworgy’s as Treworgy’s has the right to post the sign. No one has exceeded anyone’s boundaries in this instance.
Finally, I applaud your call for civility! But, I will give victims of discrimination just a little leeway when it comes to voicing their opinions. Please remember, it was only a few years ago (21 years ago), that Charlie Howard was murdered in Bangor for being gay.
As an American who is passionate about personal freedom, I believe my own rights are only as safe as my neighbors’. So I support Yes on 1 – there isn’t one good reason why the government should control marriage.
I see many of your comments as a light of rationality in the night of ignorance. I have a suggested correction: “So I support Yes on 1 – there isn’t one good reason why the government should control marriage. ” should be: “So I support Yes on 1 – there isn’t one good reason why A RELIGION should control marriage. ” Thank you for your strong libertarian and progressive words in these comments.
thank you so much.
The Reader Comment section sorely needs a DISLIKE button!!
Probably posting anything political at your place of business is going to cause some discontent, because no matter the issue there is someone who is for and against it (or a candidate). But it is his right to be able to put a sign out to express his view point. If people don’t like it they don’t have to go there (which some are doing). But it is pretty sad that some people can’t hold their tongue and will spew hateful messages to counter (which happens from either side).
No question, free speech, and the right to associate (or buy from) are common rights.
The right to proclaim your bigotry, without inflicting harm, is acceptable. The right to violate scripture, and deny others what you would want the right to have, is also acceptable – unless you believe in a judgement day, then you are declaring yourself eternally screwed… it is, as the recent book declares, “Saint Paul’s Joke”
While I personally disagree with the sign, I support and encourage their right to display it as they wish.
The problem with the left/liberals is not that they disagree with some, but that they choose to PUNISH those who disagree with their beliefs. The supposed tolerant, are not tolerant at all…
How is choosing to give my patronage to businesses that share my values “punishment?” I believe in equal rights for all. Why would I (or anyone) give my money to a business that chooses to use their profits in ways that work against my beliefs? It was the same with Chik-Fil-A. People said that those saying they wouldn’t eat there anymore were dumb, hypocrites, intolerant, etc. No, they aren’t. That business used its profits to fund charities and groups that actively worked against gay rights. Why would people who support gay rights eat there? They would essentially be donating to the groups that are working against them. That doesn’t make any sense, it is in no way “punishment.” It is wise consumerism.
As we heard when it came to the Dixie Chicks, you have a right to free speech, but not a right for freedom of consequences for your speech.
Would you support a business that believes you are less than, so much so they post a sign at the entrance of their business to state that opinion? What if the sign said keep Maine the way it should be – no Christians allowed?!?
The supposed tolerant (me included) are tolerant but we all make decisions about how we will spend our hard earned money. Some spend based on beliefs, ethics, service…etc and some are choosing not to spend because of intolerance of RELIGIOUS views. I spend my money locally whenever possible and am not upset in the least that Treworgy Farms’ views and interpretations of the Bible are different from mine. I AM a bit disappointed but their product and service has always been wonderful and their love for people and children has always been very obvious to me. I guess my point is that NONE of us know what God wants, for sure, but this is not about God, it is about how we decide who is allowed to have the same rights as others under our Constitution.
well said, and I agree with the sign
I’m not sure I understand the controversy. People are surprised that a family in Levant is opposed to same-sex marriage? Buy your apples somewhere else, but whether you’re in Levant, Corinth, Charleston, Garland, Etna, or Newport, you’re probably going to find that most people are opposed to same-sex marriage. Go take a drive and count the signs. A few Yes on 1 signs along the road, but people are taking ownership of the No on 1 signs, and they’re displayed on their lawn, at the end of their driveways, etc. You don’t want to hang around in Maine’s Bible Belt? Thank God. Tell all your friends.
nicely said
Guess the real poll will be on Nov. 6. Three years ago your “most’ was 52%. Times are a changin’.
and these people who will boycott this farm will go elsewhere ……will they ask those farmers their stance on this question before making their purchase? will that be their pre-shopping requirement from now on? How many businesses have they already done business with that are against ssm and they don’t even know it! Most ridiculous thing ever.
Good point—
Most of these people saying they are taking their apple business some where else are probaly from the southern part of state and don’t even know where Lavant is located.
Well how hypocritical would it be then, if an anti-homosexual company asks a customer if they’re homosexual-and if they are-does the company still TAKES their money? If they say no, wouldn’t that be descrimination? A company can’t dictate who they do business with, but we, the public, CAN pick and choose who we give our business to. That’s the risk businesses take by making their moral views public. I avoid Wal-mart like the plague, because I don’t like their business practices and how they treat the majority of their employers. And I’m GLAD I found out so I don’t give them any more of my money!
“We don’t support you being able to marry the person you love, but we will smile while your money!”
I WISH more businesses would state their opinion, maybe it would be easier for consumers to decide where to spend their money, no matter what side you support!
just ask before you make a purchase anywhere…you may have a hard time shopping in these parts
“We don’t support you being able to marry the person you love, but we will smile while we take your money!”
I WISH more businesses would state their opinion, maybe it would be easier for consumers to decide where to spend their money, no matter what side you support! ~Educated consumers are better shoppers.
why don’t you just ask those you shop at their opinion….you may have a hard time finding places to purchase items.
I’m a B in the LGBT community and even if he had that sign up I’d treat him the same as any other person, but I don’t have to buy anything there, or support him. I live way, way, WAY up north where 90% of my neighbors have vote No signs on their lawns. I can’t tell someone how to behave or what to believe. But I have a choice in where I buy my food. I am tolarant to the fact that he can have an opinion, I don’t have to like it, but I don’t have to do business there. No reason to make waves, really. No need to call ppl names. No need to belittle them for what they think is right.
you may be one in a million of the SSM supporters we have seen or heard from.
For me, it has to do with a business publicly stating opposition to gay marriage, saying it will be harmful to society. That drew the line in the sand for me, so to speak. I do not go out and research businesses to see if they agree with me, but if you’re going to flat out tell me you hate me or those who I love (and saying a person’s natural existence “harms society’ is just like saying ‘hate’), than so be it. Free speech ends where ANY family’s right to be free begins. What the Treworgy family said is hate speech. Therefore, I am more than comfortable going elsewhere even though I live less than a mile away and have great memories of me and my daughter at Treworgy Orchards. I have no problem letting others know why I am doing so. I strongly, wholeheartedly believe all families deserve the same equal protection under the law. The true harm lies in continuing to deny equal rights to all citizens.
They are publicly voicing their support for traditional marriage between one man and one woman. Turning that into hate speech is just plain wrong.
Once again, overuse of the “H” word.
Funny how that form of “traditional marriage” has really only existed in the US since what, the 60’s ?
Where is this definition of traditional marriage I keep hearing about? In the bible, marriage is a contract complete with other wives, concubines and slaves. In the bible, the only description of a union of two souls was between David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel.
It is absolutely hate speech for a business to say my family unit hurts society. I know my family doesn’t harm you in the slightest. Saying our natural existence harms society IS hate. When no one of us knows each other. Yet, this is what the Treworgy patriarch said yesterday when initally asked about the sign. I object and will not return.
The model of your family unit does harm society.
The truth is hate only to those who hate the truth.
Stop the intimidation.
What is this intimidation I offer? I can boycott a business that thinks like you do. That’s my right as a consumer. Freedom to buy is pretty much all we have, right?? As for commenting on issues, well … I comment on things frequently. I have a Disqus account. ;)
The model of my family unit certainly does not harm society. The hate speech you’re allowed to call free speech DOES harm society and does harm to ALL families. There are more children in foster care and available for adoption in this country than there are families willing to take them all in. We need a more open system; NOT the other way around.
The hate you’re legally allowed to display at this point in history you will most certainly be shamed for later in life. Someday, you will be like those photographed in the 60’s holding signs saying “Interracial Marriage is communism.” People will feel sorry and pity your ignorance.
Know what? God knows the number of hairs on my head AND what’s in my heart. He made me. This way. And this hate will be judged, lest you be judged, is just insecurity … for what? Turn that finger around and look inward, and you will likely find Jesus there.
Stop with the sanctimoniousness and piety
You know very well that many people have already lost their jobs and some have been jailed for criticizing homosexual “marriage.”
Is that intimidation enough for you?So stop playing the martyr and the saint.
Oh really?! I know that?
How about you stop regurgitating what sounds good to you on TV commercials, and realize there are ALREADY laws against discrimination, and THAT’S what those “jailed” you speak of are suffering the consequences for doing. (Duh.)
… If you, et al, took it upon yourself to look further than the distance between your hand and the remote control for answers, the world would not be in the mess it is in.
Geez. I sure am sorry for being so intimidating and objecting to my civil rights being trampled on. It’s just my natural reaction. I honestly can’t help it! ;)
For me, it feels simply awful that someone like you gets to decide for me what’s okay for my family, when you do not know me from Adam.
they may lose your business, but they will gain mine. so we are even
I hope they don’t get physically attacked by a gay mob.
Oh, I wouldn’t mind getting physically attacked by a gay mob…..it would be called, “culling the mob.”
We’d make sure that we left them better dressed and their home nicely decorated….
Don’t hold your breath.
An owner has just as much right to post that on their property as any other sign or political sign.
They have the right, and people have the right to protest it and organize boycotts around it.
Nobody made them take it down.
So much for the so-called tolerance (dems) party. They are the LEAST tolerant & most racist. Just ask any black conservative.
Really? Please explain. I am interested to see how you rationalize that statement.
How was Herman Cain treated when he was running in the republican primary? What about the young African-American actress who supports Romney & was vilified on Facebook for it a couple weeks ago & called all manner of derogatory names? Or how about Allen West? Mia Love?
Allen West is treated with scorn and derision not because he is a black republican but because he is an ill-informed war criminal.
I am a Republican, who is in a long term same – gender relationship, who is very tolerant and not racist. My choice to not support a business who publicly opposes me and my family is in no way intolerant, it is just smart business.
Hmmm, that is how many “dems” feel about you Reps….sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me. BTW, I’m one of them tolerant Dems, and I don’t agree with you at all but I am tolerant of your views….
What makes you think this is a “Dems” thing?
Their apples are good.
“We want people to know that it is possible to disagree with someone and continue to love and serve them as we have consistently done for years at our farm. No matter the outcome of the referendum in November.”…
Didn’t these people learn anything from the Chick Fil A business?
It’s not up to you to say how someone you have insulted has to respond.
chick fil a did well, the silent majority overwhelmed them on support day, the gay kiss in fizzled. its a loud minority screeching, but time after time the majority votes against gay marriage.
Chick Fil A’s business went off the charts and set all kinds of sales records. The “kiss in” response was a complete flop. What exactly did you learn from the Chick Fil A controversy? I would say this family business will be just fine. Many new customers who support free speech will seek them out. As it should be!
i honestly dont see the problem with the sign . it isnt like they are saying i dont want gay people here or being bad mouthed about things , it is their view , they are a legit family with a legit business, they pay their dues just like (most) everyone , why is it that if you dont agree with them is their view they all of a sudden are bad people , bit hypocritical to push one view and do another , just saying . everyone has a right to their opinion as far as i know everyone has the same rights, or supposed to have
What about legit families, who pay their legit dues, that are not afforded the same legit rights. He could have easily not posted the sign and not turned away part of his customer base.
I bet they could post 100 vote yes on one and not even get one bad post on FB, as long as they agree with the left wing haters. Its is the left that is spreading the hate.
Not true not true not true. Many of my friends who are straight with Yes on 1 signs on their private property have been vilified by long time friends, unfriended on facebook, threatened with boycots to their various businesses, received harassing and threatening phone calls from strangers and former friends alike in addition to the signs being stolen and vandalized.
Once again, overuse of the “H” word.
Oh, it’s hate alright.
I don’t think they should post a sign taking a stance either way.
It’s called Freedom of Speech – it applies to everyone – not just liberals.
Who is saying they can’t say what they want to? Just because people are pointing out that they are bigots and they won’t shop there anymore does not mean that they cannot say what they want to.
what makes someone a biggot?? having a different belief than you?.
Promoting discrimination based on the belief that others are different or inferior makes someone a bigot. Any supporter of No on one clearly fits into that category.
I’m voting for mitt, does that make me a racist? You don’t have to answer that because I know what the school did to people. limited their ability to question things. you are a good sheep
I don’t know, it really depends on why you are voting for Mitt. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is because you like Romney Care and Obama’s Foreign Policy (seem to be the only positions of Mitt’s that make sense).
Since when has believing marriage is between one MAN and one WOMAN subject to being labelled a “bigot”. This country really has become backwards over the years. No one is telling anyone how to live their life – we just want to protect what is a covenant relationship between God and man – the institution of marriage – yes those vows before God do mean something and God intended it to always be a union between one man and one woman. Rewrite the entire history of mankind if you like – it doesn’t change what God has established.
Marriage is designated and licensed by the state, period.
No holy covenant with God,or religious ceremony necessary at all.
That’s a fact.
They are in fact telling people how to live their life. That is the very purpose of a No on One vote. It also limits religious freedom. There are plenty of churches who recognize that homosexual marriages should be allowed and they would like to perform them, however the bigots are determnined to prevent that from happening.
Never heard of Treworgy Farm.
But thanks to this article, they now have several new customers. And to those who claim to be long time customers but are no longer, the farm is far better off without them.
Keep the faith Treworgy’s, know that there are legions of Mainers who are with you.
Yes, their name is indeed Legion, for they ARE many !
And certainly not for the reason you purport.
They should take down all no on 1 signs. They are put up by close-minded people who don’t believe in free speech. Kidding
I don’t agree with their viewpoint, but I agree with their right to express it.
It is only free speech when you agree with the liberals, if you agree then you have grown, if you disagree then you have a closed mind, bigot, a hater, racist ect… the names never stop until you are brow beaten into submission to their views, what ever happened to ever having your own values, opinions, and belief system, you can only disagree with the right not the left. I could care less what the farmers view is, either way. I still will be voting no it’s my right as a Veteran and as an AMERICAN, without being labeled by some political group.
Support the Veteran’s Party.
Totally support free speech and free commerce!
Putting up the sign was free speech. Boycotting the business is freedom of the marketplace. Commenting pro or con about the sign is free speech. No crime here. America at its best.
They need to feel legitimized and therefore hurting other people’s business is nary a speed bump in their plans to play victim. I have never been to Treworgy Family Farm but I am now planning several trips there. I will buy anything they have. Cow patties, corn cobs picked clean by the critters, rotten apples. Give me dozens and I will pay double. Screw the allegedly tolerant tools who are pulling these stunts because someone doesnt agree with their plans. These groups will demonize anyone who feels the need to exercise their right to free speech. The BDN ran an article last week written by a Hampden woman who begged her town mates not to put up NO on 1 signs. Her reasoning was that she didnt want to remember who voted against her right to marry whom she chose. She didnt want to think ill of them throughout the coming years. I went out and picked up three signs that day. I had no plans to place any signs out but this sealed the deal for me. They are still up and if they disappear, I have more. If those disappear, I will mold them from concrete. No one deserves to be treated poorly because they do not agree with you.
And who’s striving to be a victim? There are psychological terms for that.
Seems that tolerance and free speech are simply one-way streets! NO on Question 1 is the right way to vote.
They put up a political sign and people expressed their opinions from both sides. That is “freedom of speech” at is most basic level.
Might be the politically right-wing way to vote but hardly correct.
Gays would have to boycott almost all business in Aroostook.
You’d be surprised how many businesses up North have ”swayed” the other way…… ;)
But yes, Aroostook is as redneck as they come
And I live there/here
But, oddly enough, I’ve only had very few problem for being bisexual….
Redneck? Is that a derogatory term?
Don’t let deviants take over society just because PC is the current fad. A good portion of Mainers and people from San Francisco apparently never took biology or anatomy.
Maybe “the gays” parents should have paid more attention to biology and anatomy class, they are the ones having homosexual children!
Yeah, damn those heterosexuals for having children who turned out to be gay.
And you have? Transcripts please.
I am very much pro-equal rights for same sex and different sex marriage. I am very opposed to discrimination. I am very glad they took down the sign. However, I also believe in free speech that is civil, and their sign was fine. Some of the comments that were made were simple disagreements, but some were hateful and
not necessary. I respectfully disagree and hope that some people can be persuaded that it’s okay to legalize gay marriage, but no one will listen to another point of view if not couched in a respectful manner. YES on Number one, please!!
Heres the best part of all this bickering non sense….if he never put that sign up them so called people claiming they will take their business elsewheres, still would have showed up. They would have NEVER had known his position with his own personal right to free speech his position on it the entire time.
Grow up people, get over yourselves, not everyone is going to believe what you believe period. I will assume folks who make them comments had no problem in doing any business with these folks at any other point, but the SECOND someone believes in something you don’t or vice versa, people act like kids instead of adults and “Waaaah I don’t wanna do business with you” or “Waaah I am taking my business elsewheres now because you took your legal right to be bold with one sign on something you don’t support”
Can you imagine how many other businesses these people go to and not realize the person at the checkout doesn’t support Same Sex Marrigage, or Obama, or Romney even? Can they imagine that the person who sings their paycheck might not believe what they do either? But when someone states verbally or otherwise about their position on something and it doesn’t agree with their beliefs, suddenly you are a problem
I remember growing up Maine was so full of friendly people, everyone would get along and you could have a civil conversation, today it is examples like this that makes this state not what it used to be.
Put the sign back up, I will put it back up for you. You own the land, you own your feelings, not these immature people who let one sign stand in the way of a hay ride, an ice cream, etc.
A business person who does not publicly denounce his/her customers is a smart business person.
It is not “denouncing his/her customers” If people can’t separate business from pleasure, move on, as I said these people who claim to never return may it be only once or several times that they been there I bet had NO problem whatsoever brining their business to them, but the SECOND you find out a business owner does not share the same view as you do, suddenly it is a problem. One sign expressing your view is a problem. It is not like they posted a signs directly insulting the “same sex” community. If they posted a sign that said something like “Gay people need to get a life” then yeah, these people have every right to be ticked off.
What do these same people do with other places they go to, a restaurant, a store, and the person waiting on them does not support their view? They got no problem still doing business because the same sex community is doing stupid ploys like this to get attention and votes drawn to support them. These people NEVER had a problem doing business in the past, but once again, society puts on their diapers, craps in them and cries because all of the sudden you don’t share the same view.
It is immature and society has some growing up to do
It’s free speech, it’s called Freedom. We all can agree and disagree. I support them in placing their sign on their property. I am not saying I support or not support the Question #1. But I do support the right of free speech.
Who has taken their right to free speech away? They are free to spout off whatever bigoted and hateful nonsense they want, and people are free to not shop there and urge others to do the same.
And so it continues. And then people wonder why some are against gay marriage. You express your opinion and folks attack you. It is sickening how badly this country has become so PC. If he put out a “YES” sign, this topic never comes up. I beg this man to put the sign back up. If people don’t go there because of his beliefs, than who needs them.
Am I reading your comment right, Wayno? No one attacks gays and lesbians? Get real!
How would have this all played out if this played out if it had been the Yes on 1 sign?
We opted to go to Blue Hill because the apples were half the price with similar opportunities for the kids.
One way or the other, I’ll be glad when this pissing contest has a decision next month.
It maybe a place of buisness, but it is also their home. If you can express your feelings and opinion at your home why is it a crime for them. For those of you who object then how would you like it if someone didnt like a sign in front of your home or buiness and boycotted you. If this bothers you so much why would you boycott them for doing what you are doing right now. expressing your opinion
Not a crime, probably just not a good business decision.
If more people were like you, more people might be accepting. But when I travel through the streets of Portland, and I see “NO” signs ripped up, thrown down, and torn to shreds, only to be replaced by “YES” signs, it only makes me want to vote “NO” even more.
So I am guessing that you know nothing about all the YES signs that were stolen, defaced and/or replaced by NO signs? Frankly, I think political signs should be outlawed all together – they are an eyesore.
In the last 7 days, 93 Yes signs stolen in Washington County. One No on 1.
good!!!! Vote NO
Why? How many yes signs have you torn down?
I’m proud to say that I am voting YES on Question #1.
And also sorry to say I may never do business with Treworgy Farms again…
Never been there myself, but I hear they are a nice family.
If your lifes decisions are going to be made by what political signs are on someones lawn then you need help.. So just a wild guess you will not go to anyones business that supports Mitt for president.
I’ve met them, they are a nice family.
They are great people.
The issue is not the political signs, but the attitude of the people who erect them.
The Treworgys said it themselves: “It’s a shame that so many assume that we are hateful and discriminatory
simply because we are convinced that marriage is defined by a higher
power than civil government.”
I am 100% for religious freedom, but religious groups have no place writing their god, scripture or biases into the laws that all the rest of us have to abide by.
I have had gay friends since the 70’s when they first started comming out. nothing about people being gay bothers me. I was was going to vote yes, that was my intent, This article and comments changed my mind. I don’t beleive that that gay people are making rude comments in here, I believe it’s people trying to prove they are gay friendly who are bashing the vote no people.. The political aspect of uneducated simple minded people trying to prove they are gay friendly and are down right mean people has changed my mind.. I refuse to be amoung the bullies. so vote no!
Wait, you were going to vote for equality, but then some people on the internet hurt your feelings, so now you are going to vote no? Seriously? I’m glad your feelings are more important that your “friends” rights…
Everybody, of course, should have the freedom of speech and the right to vote as they believe. But, I think that our personal political opinions should not be addressed in our business life. I personally am for the right to allow anybody to marry whomever they choose, but I, too, am a business owner and my customers have the right to believe otherwise. Therefore, I would never express or push my political opinions in my workplace as I honor others’ rights to go against my personal beliefs. For me it is just bad business practice. I have enjoyed the corn maze for years with my children. If the signs were still out there, I probably would keep on driving.
the rainbow folks sure are hateful
But no BDN article on the 93 Yes on 1 signs in Washington County that have been stolen/vandalized in the last 7 days alone versus one No on 1 sign.
How so?
While I support the right of Treworgy Family Orchards to put up any political sign they desire to display, it is also my right to not support anyone who feels that it is acceptable to deny any legal citizen of this country the same rights that they themselves are granted by law. The separation of church and state phrase is just that, you don’t tell me what religion to base my beliefs on and I don’t tell you, and neither religion should be what the law is based on. ALL legal citizens of the United States are entitled to equal protection under the law under the Equal Protection Clause in the Fourteenth Amendment and this is a pretty substantial example of where that clause should apply. If someone was discriminating the way the law does now, only targeting people by race or sex or religion, we would protest, and we should protest when the law discriminates against two consenting adults who choose to love someone of the same sex. They should be able to enjoy the same benefits of legal marriage that you do. If you don’t agree, then you must agree that those same benefits should be abolished for all, since we are all equal under the law.
.
I have never been to Treworgys Farm but be assured I will make it a point to shop there in the future. These people have a right to their opinions and beliefs. What a sad day when we don’t agree with someone’s views and take it out on the family and the business. I commend this family for standing up for what they believe in. It’s too bad that some of the yes voters are unable to see both sides. I personally will be voting NO on 1 but I also do business with and know gay people who are on opposite sides on this vote. I still plan to do business with them and hope they do well in their endeavors as well as the Treworgys.
I always said that businesses should keep their political views private. It’s to bad there are so many bullies out there trying to ruin peoples business because of their political or Religous beliefs.
Our schools have indoctrinated people for enough time now that they don’t even know they are wrong.. Yet they will shop at wal mart.. They are not responsible for their lack of educations or common sense for having been taught lies for years. They don’t even have a clue that they don’t know.
The sign was placed next to the private driveway of the family patriach’s house. Sounds to me that the sign was not intended to express the views of the business itself, but rather the owners of the house. Although I disagree with the gentleman’s opinion, he is entitled to it. I would certainly not take it out on the family business.
There was a sign at each end of the property – at the entrance and at the exit of the business. The picture at the top of this article shows the sign at the far end – furthest away from the Treworgy home.
Sorry, I have never been there but was going by where the article stated the sign was placed. The story describes one sign placed near a private driveway. Thanks for the clarification.
BDN please take this story down.
Why?
edited
thats right VOTE NO!!!
Not right, but near sighted.
I am probably going to take my buisiness where I get the most for my money, not because they have a YES or NO sign. Get a life people!!!
The homosexual community have become the new bullies on the block. I was debating whether or not to put a vote 1 on 1 on my lawn, since I was warned not too, now I am.
Lazy. You can’t argue that the farm gets to voice their opinion, but then call pro-equality supports bullies for doing the exact same thing.
Go ahead. Do you run a business?
This farm should voice their opinion if they want to! Nothing wrong with that. But guess what — other people get to voice their opinion as well. Don’t cry victim when you’re not being victimized.
From what I understand from one of the early posters critical of the sign, is not that they care the family opposes gay marriage. Most of those critical support their right to their opinion, but they disagree with the venue the family is using.
Many families visit this business each year, in fact, a family that included a gay couple was scheduled to visit there Sunday, until another relative, who is not gay, spotted the sign and cancelled the outing for two couples, one conventional, one that could not be defined as couple under Question 1.
How horrible that the supporters of gay marriage will attack to prevent someone’s free speech
Once again, “attack”?
When u call publicly for a boycott. I call that an attack on someone’s livelihood so yes ATTACK …..god forbid if you have a different opinion or belief then a supporter of yes on one…makes me want to vote no all the more only wish I could vote no twice!
It’s not an attack!
It is a consumer demonstrating their RIGHT to shop where they choose based on whatever reason they choose.
This family has the right to post a sign on their front lawn, but the consumer doesn’t have the right to shop somewhere else because of it? The hardcore religious Right need to think out their arguments before making them
That’s nothing, wait till NOM releases the names of all their donors they’ve illegally withheld from the public.
I’m looking forward to “attacking” businesses and people who hid behind NOM, while everybody else’s names were out there all along, by choosing to NOT do business with them.
If people have such a problem with that, I suggest they move somewhere where people don’t have the right to take their business where they want to.
So people should fear a bunch of fruit loops with their sick agenda ? I doubt it
Don’t fear us… but our speech is just as free as yours.
Your fears are your own choice.
I find most fear is borne out of ignorance.
And I call that capitalism.
Do you protest all the boycotts by fundies and wingnuts against Home Depot and the rest?
I’m thinking no… demonstrating the vile hypocrisy of your kind yet again.
An owner of a business made a private political belief public and on his companies property. That is his right to do so. It is also the right of people to comment pro and con on that once private political belief which is now the official company position.
Sometimes the best business decision is to do nothing at all. Remember “New Coke”?
Where are your business(s)? Do they have a name? Where are they located?
“Where are your business(s)?”In the Greater Bangor area~~~~~”Do they have a name?”Doesn’t matter. I would never make a business decision like Treworgy made without involvuing all the partners.~~~~~”Where are they located?”See answer to first question above.
Not wise to post a political sign on or near your business, especially for a controversial, polarized issue like this.
ahh…the same sex marriage side’s version of tolerance. would there be as many complaints or such a fuss made if they had put a No on 1 sign up?
Just have to put this out there. If it is the “right” to be able to have insurance….why don’t you fight the insurance companies to recognize civil unions?? And whomever else you don’t get your way with. It seems this has been voted down many ways with many different ways of wording it, and yet you continue to want it shoved down everyone’s throat. I voted for equal marriage rights last time….never again!
How blindered of you.
“I thought we lived in a free country”
Irony. Actual irony, not just Alanis Morissette irony.
1. it is their Right as a citizen of the united states to have and publicly state their opinions. It is also the RIGHT of people to avoid interactions with people who have opposing opinion. That said it is NEVER a good idea for a BUSINESS to state their opinions on a VERY controversial topics if they are not able and prepared to deal with the repercussions of that opinion.
2. Not one of the Pro GM people in this article posted ANYTHING offensive or intolerant. All they said is based on this BUSINESS”S opinion they would no longer doing business with them. Nothing wrong with that at all.
3. I have a question for all the no on 1 people. If you are black would you shop at a place that said “I don’t want my daughter marring a ni^^ger” if you are religious would you shop at a business that had a sigh that said “all Christens are bigoted Racists” or how about if your a women and someone had a sigh that said” women should not be allowed to vote” or a white at a business that said “I hate Crackers” There is NO difference between the sign they posted and these statements. Voting no on 1 Is a bigoted point of view.
Personally I think we need to remove the word marriage from ALL goverment documents and laws. EVERYONE should get a civil union license from the state. Then go and do with it what you want. If you want to go to a Catholic church and get a “Marriage” do it noone else will care.
That’s what they often do in Europe.
what the signs or civil unions?
actually, doing all those things go against what this country wwas founded on….but if you wanted to collect a few people who belive as you do and go find your own country and start with that as your foundation….go for it…..but dont change what this country was founded on…….we have the contract that says this is how this country will be governed in general..go find your own land, make your own contract that is radically different than what this country was founded on and have at it…….
i think you misread what i said. I don’t believe any of those things I’m asking other people who want to discriminate against GLBT’s if they are also ok to discriminate against others.
What is next, if someone wants to vote no will they be beat up by the vote yes crowd. That is sad when when one voices their opinion they are threatened.. This is absolute proof that the vote yes crowd are Bullies and will hurt anyone who doesn’t believe in the same thing.. They are just like school yard bullies stealing your kids lunch money.
Boohoohoooo. Poor babies. Poor lil darlins! Imagine the AUDACITY of “those” people! Just because they want to extend the automatic rights heterosexuals get when they enter into state-sanctioned relationships to gays and lesbians. How dare they decide to exercise their right to vote with their wallets! I say, it’s a violation of Treworgy’s religious rights when their customers tell them they are taking their business elsewhere!
it is 100% against all laws of nature that 2 men having sex and is concidered normal.. Sorry the truth isn’t always pretty
I don’t give a damn that you think is against the laws of nature. Being celibate is against the laws of nature, too. WHO CARES? Get out of other peoples’ bedrooms. You are just perverted. Sorry the truth isn’t always pretty.
Edited. LOL! Now were even. See how that works?
Maybe you should look at nature again there Jim-Bob. I have a dog that will attempt to have sex with anything. It looks like the laws of nature tell us to do what feels right. Now, I am not saying homosexuals are like dogs, just that it is clear that nature has no such laws as you depict.
nice societal view you got there….are you wondering around this earth, clearly lost, looking for some ‘MAdMax” Thunderdome scenario…..Society has laws of right and wrong and so does nature……risky,deviant sexual perversions have consequences…
This wasn’t about societies laws, this was about “Laws of Nature” according to Pushtheredbutton. I am well aware that society has different laws than nature does, unfortunately it is a concept that the No on 1 bigots seem to miss.
Try and make this into something it isn’t push.
Treworgy made a business decision. People are free to agree and disagree with that decision. When a business makes public their private political views they should be prepared for people to disagree with those views.
Get used to the bully tactics of this form of manipulation by the GBLT. By those whom support immorality, who should be allowed exercise their first amendment. Tolerance will and is an only a one-way street.
They made a business decision. Now the public is commenting on that business decision. Remember “New Coke”? That was a business decision too.
Thats a stupid analogy….Coke is a product….now, if people made a bull rush into the executive office, and syrup and tarred them, that would be an analogy….sort of what you are trying to do here….
These are people who have not changed who they are…the majority of people….over 90% who say they are not going to support this farm….has never supported this farm and do not know the heart of this family……….statistically, every one who supports this business knows who they are…..thats statistically 100%….
Actually Mr Waldo it is the perfect analogy.
Both were business decisions. One over a new product and one about posting a political sign on company property.
Both generated a great deal of “buzz”. Both business decisions were reversed by the company. One based on lost market share and the other based on public opinion.
You can slice it and dice it any way you want but in the end Treworgy made a bad business decision about making a private political choice into a public pronouncement.
In the end, this will not hurt their business. People will forget it but I am willing to bet that many businesses have learned a lesson form this example.
Speech may be free but in business the consequences can be dear.
If this guy wants to run his business into the ground, that is his personal choice. I welcome his freedom to display whatever gay-bashing, bigot-mongering hate advocacy he wants.
Let his be his own judge and executioner.
But what if he cant create enough space to handle all the business that it increases because of his choice to stand?…
This family hasn’t changed for as long as they have been in business….they have been a strong part of this community..giving to charity, giving back to community…raising excellent kids…and you think they are….what?
Thanks for giving us a quick peek into your heart…..
Sorry Treworgy Family.You won`t see me their with my children,grand-children again.
you will indoctorinate the youngsters under your control and take away any chance they have an independant thought.. I’m sad your kids and grand kids are controled by someone who forces their opinon onto their young minds.. Sad indeed.
Yep, which explains HOW Vice President Dick Cheney ended up with a gay daughter..
good riddance
Don’t worry, you will find another orchard more to your liking…too bad your kids and grandkids wont be exposed to the positive effects of what it means to actually be challenged on your beliefs and stand strong, no matter what…great lesson for kids….
This will indeed make that farm stronger, trying to bully their agenda. Amazing what they will try and do to win this vote. The silent majority will speak again! I will make a special trip to this orchard from now on, they now have my business. Leave the sign up!
♪♫o/~ The farmer takes a farmer,
The farmer takes a farmer….Hi, hi, the derry-oh,
The farmer takes a farmer….
The farmers generally do take a farmer. Or do you think that the women who live on farms just stay inside barefoot and pregnant?
To bad they can’t have their believes and show support for what they believe in without some idiots objecting. I thought it was free speech guess only for certain people. People are getting ridiculous.
Anyone think that 2 men having sex together is normal or as nature intended it to be?
Anyone think someone being celibate is normal or is as nature intended it to be? GET OVER YOURSELF and get out of other people’s bedrooms.
celibate is normal….you watched way too much Nicklodeon or too much MTV…
Celibacy is a normal outlier just like homosexuality.
God made animals an they turn out gay ? So he did the same to men and a women
maybe not normal but enjoyable to those who practice this lifestyle (obviously) there are many abnormalities in life that people practice for that is their decision to do so–live and let live–life is too short for me to dictate what is right and wrong with another’s-as long as no one is physically or emotionally damaging other peeps than let it be–worry about getting on and surviving with our own lives in these trying times.
Ahh, yess….the get satisfaction whenever or anyway you can….anything goes……….on a related note, what the heck is wrong with our youth today……
They have the right to put whatever sign they want, BUT people also have the right to react as they have and boycott. Such is democracy. When you are such a public and family-fun oriented business, it may be best to avoid political issues that will cause such a stir. You make these calls and have to be willing to live with them, including the consequences.
In this case, thanks to the fake outrage, they will have to expand thier business…probably in two or three phases…..
This is supposed to be a free country and you should be able to voice your opinion. I personally think that it is wrong that they had to take the sign down if that is what they believe. I’m sure if it was the other way around they would not want to remove their sign. Everyone has a right to their opinion or at least I thought they did and a sign does not really influence any of us, we all have free choice to vote the way we want to vote. A sign is not going to influence my decision.
A sign is not going to influence my decision. The same with me to
They made a business decision to put up a political sign and voice their opinion. Now the public is making know their opinion on that business decision.
Anyone who chooses where to buy apples based on difference in personal beliefs is silly. The quality of their products is in no way related to their beliefs.
I would not call someone silly for choosing to take their business elsewhere, I would call them principled.
And if their principles cause them to purchase an inferior product?
That is the consumers choice. I do however believe there are at least equal apple orchards in the greater Bangor area for people to pick at and Treworgy doesn’t have the corner on corn mazes either.
I also respected their business model too. Their first orchard was plowed under when struck by disease. Then they operated two Dunkin Donut franchises until the family decided to get back in the apple business. They have the farm store, the corn maze, the food and dairy bar, the petting zoo, they have entertainment on the weekend too. They have done a great job building a business that operated from June to November and employees a total of 50 people at various times during the year.
Right, it is their choice and nor was I attempting to suggest that Trewory is the cream of the crop. Ive never been there. I was merely suggesting that it is my opinion that choosing where to shop simply based on commonality of beliefs between the involved parties is not a logical way to go about buying goods.
You should choose where to buy items or services based on quality and price. Like voting, people vote for religious candidates just because they support religion and not for their values that are actually relevant. This family’s opinions on marriage and gay people is hardly related to the quality of their products and while they might be just normal, I feel like ignoring or embracing any business due to beliefs is just a very bad idea and a bad habit to get into.
Silly is a far better word and applies better as well.
actually, choosing to visit Treworgy’s farms would be the principled choice, because they are the ones taking the stand, they have been in business forever…they are the ones under attack and forced to defend themselves against some very ugly, unprincipled people….it is not principled to attack a business while promoting fairness and equality….
Mr Waldo people vote with their wallets when it comes to a business. If a person does not agree with the products or services you provide they don’t buy them. When a company makes a business decision which is outside the norm (and supporting a political party, question, etc….is outside the norm) people will again vote with their wallet and decide to do business elsewhere if they do not agree with the companies stated position Conversely they if a consumer agrees with the stated position they will vote with their wallet and purchase those products and services offered.
Treworgy made a business decision. They now will suffer or reap the benefit of that public political decision.
I agree with the fact that everyone has the right to their opinion, I don’t feel as though a business should put up political signage, for or against…but I do think people trying to boycott them are being extremely immature. You don’t have to agree with their views (I sure don’t) but I’m certaintly not going to berate them for it.
Not saying I agree or disagree but I do believe there will be other farmers growing cornmazes and a pumpkin patch. There are other farmers who could use the proceeds.
Plenty of other orchards around. Try Stukas orchard in Lewiston.
http://www.maineapples.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=58&Itemid=2
I would like to say Ricker or Wallingford but Jeff Timberlake GOP Representative from Turner is a member of their family, and also runs the orchard, so we know he is more than likely a bigot.
I am looking for that list of Orchards who promote same sex marriage…anyone seen that list around anywhere…..hmmmm…..
No tolerance for people of faith.
Why is LePage name being used?????????. He has nothing to to wth this. Keep your ultra liberal remarks to yourself.
Attack yes attack…oh smart one I said attack online and or forming a boycott on someone because of their beliefs…calling for a boycott is a financial attack. All for what? So two people can marry…..lmao
I am voting Yes on one, but I am certainly not going to stop interacting with people that have a different point of view. That is the problem with politics today, they try to turn every issue into a life and death – hate the other guy issue. In this country the majority rules, but we do not send the minority packing.
funny how their right to put up a sign and express thier feelings turns into an attack on them,so who is being descrimanated now and they are not asking for anything from the public,here’s YOUR sign !!!
They have every right to put up a sign and those that agree and disagree have every right to express their opinion too.
i dont see protests at every vote yes sign or vote no signs,facebookers took this too far
Just as the Treworgy family decided to show their intolerance of those whom they perceive as different, and just as they exercised their right to publicly proclaim their position, so have others who disagree with them by expressing their opinions, either verbally or through exercising their consumer rights. Fifty years ago, we were having the very same discussions, the only difference being that we were talking about the color of people’s skin. Just as it was believed then, that people of color were somehow different and inferior, the conservatives now believe that those who are gay are different or inferior and are deserving of the discrimination that they face. If the conservatives truly believe as they do, and act on those beliefs, it is my belief that they will be having an interesting discussion when they meet St. Peter.
Boy, you really need some work on this issue…your analogy is really incorrect…maybe you should study up a little…..Race was not a choice, its how God made people……3% ( the total amount of the population of homosexuals in the US) should not be able to remove mother and father or husband and wife from the act of marriage or redifine it….
November 7th can not possibly come fast enough.
Sounds like a classic case of “bullying” to me. We can’t have a difference of opinion in this state/country any more without this kind of backlash.
So if it was the other way around and they were getting all of this negative feedback with a “yes on 1” sign, who would be the intolerant bigots then? It is always amusing to me how the intolerant,bigot titles only go to those on one side of the issue no matter how the other side conducts themselves.
I have made a few posts stating that I would be voting “no” and have had nothing but attacks on me. I don’t try and attack those that disagree with me because the most fundemental right we have as Americans is that we have a right to an opinion.
Remember, If one person loses his/her right to have an opinion we all will lose that right.
They own a business (I am co-owner of two) and they took a stand. People agree and disagree with that stand.
I myself would never post a political sign on the front lawn of my business. My political beliefs are my private beliefs. But once you post that sign at your business your private political beliefs are now your companies public political beliefs. Maine has a law that says if you operate a business you must serve ALL customers irrespective of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc…
When you announce your companies political beliefs you better be prepared for the political backlash.
um…thier business is also thier home…….
And yet, that doesn’t change anyting about jd’s post…
Never said it wasn’t. They have every right to put up any sign they wish. And the public has every right to express their disagreement or agreement with that sign. Freedom of speech is a two way street.
” Do you know how stupid you sound right now?”
I’m voting for Obama and most likely voting yes on one and now making this place my apple orchard of choice. Most people I know who are voting no sincerely believe it is a Religous institution and as such and as stated in the bible reserved between a man and a woman. And one final point the objection is due to behavior I can’t remember a science where it is proven your born with a gay gene. So I will be showing my support for diversity and the more I think of it may change my vote. The gays can have a civil union and stop hijacking people’s religions
Please dont change your vote. Their are thousands of us in Maine who need your support.
Glad to see that those who scream for equality most, won’t allow others to have their own opinion. The “Yes on 1” Mafia strikes again.
The company posted a sign. People exercised their “free speech right” both pro and con. That is “free speech” at is basic level.
It’s intimidation by a left-wing movement which has its roots in Marxism.
This is a family-owned business in Maine which yielded to intimidation.
Let the leaders of their movement go back where they came from.
Will NOM go with them?
So they had their freedom of speech and we had ours. Somehow this is wrong? I posted outside my house and got a death threat. I know it isnt all the No on 1 people who are hateful and I dont group them together.
I think gay families should pick a day to rally and all bring their kids to the orchard en mass. Give the Treworgys their biggest $$ day ever, and perhaps something to think about. But they’d have to all wear same color tee shirts because otherwise the Treworgys wouldn’t even notice the difference between their gay and straight customers.
“… is that , just your style: … slam someone and then run? Is your last name LePage?”
Isn’t that EXACTLY what you just did?
That’s the problem with progressives. You have freedom of speech unless you use it.
Sodomites and their liberal enablers are hell-bent on destroying the institution of marriage in their quest to force an agenda of perversion upon Mainers who honor God. These people will stop at nothing until their corruption ravages the last vestige of dignity from society and the individual.
The real error is not recognizing that their maudlin motives are crouched in deception and shame.
The error was a poor business decision. The Treworgy’s have the right to make private political view the official position of the company.
People have the right to agree and disagree with that poor business decision. Remember “New Coke”?
True, true…
They tearfully plead for tolerance and understanding, but when our backs are turned they engage in bigotry and intimidation.
Yup. Those gay people and their not-so-secret agenda to “convert” straights, prey on children, burn down the churches, and infiltrate the public school system with explicit pictures of sodomy. Good grief. {rolling eyes}
They have the right to free speech but it was a poor business decision. Especially considering the fact that Mainer’s overwhelmingly support this cause and will be voting YES. The apples and pumpkins should have remained neutral.
Yes, standing up on principles and convictions should only be wednesday and saturdays….please keep your principles to yourself on the other days….nice model for life…I will not be teaching my kids that principles or ethics can flow with the breeze….whatever you want…..
Those who preach tolerance are in reality intolerant….
If being intolerant means I don’t tolerate people who attempt to limit or stop fellow American’s from equal representation under the law….yep I’m intolerant of that and i’m also ok with that.
I agree!!
Stop the bullying and discrimination you folks complain so much about. You are like kids in a school yard. The T’s have their right to feel how they wish and post a sign if they wish. You all post your yes signs and you never hear a peep from those who oppose. I think it is childish to boycott a small family farm for their beliefs. You choose not to go the farm, good, stay away. Their stance on this issue will likely bring in two families to replace your one. You nay sayers are the pots callling the kettle black.
You all post your yes signs and you never hear a peep from those who oppose.” Are you serious. i got a death threat.
The people you refer to only tolerate diversity amongst their own ilk. They are intolerant and discriminatory to any who oppose.
Since when are people who support the Constitution and free speech an ‘ilk’?
Since reading some of their hate in some of the postings.
People who hate will use anything they can to justify themselves.
Interesting, that statement certainly works both ways.
That’s quite painfully obvious.
Re; http://tinyurl.com/8pqmjqn
like those who oppose it(?)
Smart small business owners know not to mix business with religion
its not about religion…even though you are trying to paint it that way….
They have every right to post the sign. Others have every right to choose not to do business with them as a result. Freedom of speech is not the same thing as freedom from consequences.
i totally support any business’s right to express their political viewpoint. that being said, treworgy will no longer receive any of my business. sad, i liked the place, but i cannot in good conscience give money to a business that supports such bigotry.
And because of your attitude, hundred’s of new families have discovered Treworgy Farm…Your attitude is the absolute minority….your attitude has done more to increase the visibility with a positive message than the one you are portraying…Your side should have just shut up and kept your mean-spiritness to its self…but you have to take the cover off for a split second…
If they had put up a vote yes on 1 if would be a non- issue.
Don’t forget you are allowed to voice your opinion AS LONG as it is a liberal/socialist one.
“It’s a shame that so many assume that we are hateful and discriminatory” – just because you have an irrational fear and narrow-minded belief that a higher power has defined marriage. Throughout history there have been various kinds of “marriages” including those where one man had multiple wives. where children were married to each other without any consent, and where adolescent girls were given into an old man’s harem. All the different types of marriage were approved by the religious beliefs of their times and places – – that doesn’t mean they were “right” – and your religious beliefs don’t make your limited view of marriage any more “right”. While you absolutely have the right to the marriage you want, you would deny that same right to people who don’t believe as you do. To me, and many others, that is discriminatory and hateful.
You have the absolute right to state your opinions, and others have the absolute right to avoid you because they find your opinions irrational and discriminatory.
LOL now I see Dana Carvey rearranging the word SANTA into SATAN….and the Church Lady saying “Could it be SATAN!!!!”
Thanks for the laugh Son.
Your post poll is bogus. Of course he has a right to post the sign. It is also my right to disagree with him and take my business elsewhere. Taking down the sign doesn’t change a thing for me. When proprietors politicize their business’ that is the risk they are taking. Sayonara.
Your opinion also has consequeneces that are the OPPOSITE of what you are attempting to do….fake outrage will do that…
100’s more customers were just introduced to this awesome family farms…’preciate your non-business…
They are bigots…anti-Christian bigots.
The depth of their hatred for God is appalling.
Its called free speech. Dont like it dont go there. I plan on giving them more business to make up for all the whiners who dont.
Look, they need to expand as it is….the other day, this place was packed…I can’t imagine how much more room they will need now….maybe they will start with the ice cream shop!!!!
Our family loves the Treworgy’s Farm….for the past 23 years…..
Your business, your beliefs. Way to cave to the gay marriage crowd.
To the Treworgy family, don’t be bullied into apologizing for your beliefs, make your stand and be proud!
I have always thought of ” Marriage” as being man & Women. However as of late, I see what the problem is and we have made this by not approving all aspects of a domestic partnership. We withheld very important aspects that were desperately needed. Insurance coverage, etc but the most important in my eyes is, not being accepted as a family member when the other is on their deathbed That was and is wrong. If it takes a marriage to set that aside then so be it. It didn’t have to be a marriage but some people and lawmakers would not bend and this is the end result. We, as a free society must do what is right for all, not ever, a select few. I never would say to someone that they were wrong in their belief as again we all are free to choose. Just like the presidential race, if you review and research anyone with average intelligence will be able to draw the right choice, I believe, but it takes time and reading the facts.
We are all subjected to ad’s and propaganda that money can buy to sway the vote but we still have a choice and owe it to everyone, to do what is the best for all.
What ever happened to tolerance for opposing points of view? There will never be a time when everyone agrees on an issue but we should respect the right of others to express their opinions. Tolerance used to be a hallmark of our society but extremists are more vocal than moderates. This is a case of bigotry (by those opposed to the sign) masked as good intentions.
Tolerance may be a two way street, but so is free speech. The right that allows the farm to display the sign is the same right that allows people to criticize them and to boycott them. If you don’t want to be criticized for your political opinions, don’t present your political opinions.
Hopefully your wife has more common sense than you and told you to go stuff it!
Bullying is alive and well in the gay/lesbian agenda. I am a bigot if I didplay my No on #1 sign but you can display your Yes on #1. I dont think so. I admire any business that exercises their political rights. I thought love was kind and gentle. Guess not in the aggressive bullying world of gay/lesbians. All the more reason to vote NO on #1 !!!
Yes clearly is the LGBT people who are violent and bullies….there are all kinds of LGBT people going to court every day for bullying and being aggressive toward non LGBT people….oh wait not there isn’t…. it’s the other way around doofus. Try again.
Chick-fil-a has seen an increase in business since taking a stand
That business emanated from the ‘bible belt’ what else you one expect from the sheeple of that geography? And Maine has soooo many of those restaurants here in this state….oh wait no we don’t- and I wouldn’t go to that business either- there are always alternatives like KFC.
Please share your reference? I have heard the opposite; aside from the one “chick-fil-a appreciation day” turnout, business has dropped off at many locations in the wake of the issue.
So has JCP. Starbucks, etc they were boycotted by those opposed.
It’s not bullying. If you want to call them “bigots” and “bullies” for exercising their rights, then putting up a sign is bullying just as much.
You’re a hypocrite if you applaud the farm for “exercising their political rights” but then call gays and lesbians bullies for doing the exact same thing.
Leave the sign up…so we’ll know which business to boycott. Some people have zero compassion and I, for one, want to know who they are. I appreciate their giving me a heads up, so I can take my money elsewhere.
you never went there anyway. You just fake support, like a scare tactic. This business does not need your type of commerce…people that go here go for the awesome experience of a working farm, as they have done for years…..classic small hard working Maine business…….clearly you have confused hard work and raising a family and the American dream for some sort of petty warped, small minded agenda…….maybe it is about time you start supporting economically those businesses that promote….whatever it is you are looking for in a business
I support the sign by Treworgy’s . If you don’t agree with the GAY Agenda be ready to be attacked. I can’t wait for this vote to be over.
Agree or disagree, This is America. Put whatever sign you want out there. If you’re a business, you have to live with the consequences. Facebook is rotten.
But applying the leaden fist of oppression regarding common civil law to fellow Mainer’s is just fine. Try again.
No on #1…….If This passes and same sex marriage is allowed, this will be the norm…..Homosexual advocates can say all day long how its about love or equal rights…..its not, and people should not believe it….its about moving a social agenda forward AND destroying traditional marriage in its wake…..If you own a small business or support small businesses through you daily spending, this should concern you. If the small business you support does not have the liberty to operate as they see fit, without the fear of this type of personal attacks, goods and services will cost you alot more…..or your favorite business will just decide its not worth the risk to be destroyed in your community. Thank you Gay community for pulling the sheeps clothing off, all but for a split second.
I certainly do not want to destroy anything— I want to honor my commitment to my soul mate and protect the life we have built together, and civil marriage would help that.
I support traditional marriage AND gay marriage!
As for a business having “the liberty to operate as they see fit”, this is not at issue AT ALL— no one is forcing that business to take down their sign!
This is no different than if a sports bar put up a banner saying “Patriots Stink!” and then deciding to take it down when patrons express their opinion of the sign.
They had the right to put the sign on it’s lawn but as a business it was a stupid move. Maybe this is what the future holds if this doesn’t pass in two weeks than people will take there business elsewhere. After all we are suppose to be vacation land and it is what runs our economy. If people decide not to spend their vacation dollars here we’re screwed.
there’s a big difference between stating your views and BULLYING..so what these ppl are saying is..if you don’t vote or think the way I want you to, then i won’t be doing business with you. i, myself, wouldn’t want to do business with a bully. and most of these ppl probably don’t even live in the state. i for one, would have left the sign up. and plz..STOP putting your signs on MY lawn without my permission. i have had to take down the one’s I don’t agree with
it’s called boycotting. very American. Ever hear of the big bus boycot down South? Or would you prefer black Americans still ride in the back of the bus?
Keep your opinions at your house, not at your business. If your house happens to be your business, it may be free speech to put your opinions on a sign and post them for your patrons to see, but it’s also bad business. I reserve the right to get pissed off that a business openly condemns the rights of my loved ones, and I reserve the right to tell them my opinion just as they have decided to post their opinion for all to see.
Hasn’t it been the gays & lesbo that have been preaching tolerance? When the shoe is on the other foot, all of a sudden they are NOT so tolerant anymore.
How do you know they are one ones doing it ? Did you ever think that some of those people mite be plants to make them look bad ?
Ha haha, yeah right….that must be it.
Can you prove there are no plants ? Look at all the lies that have been spread an all those lies have been proves false .Look at that inn in VT. that was a total lie . They say that kids raise by gays do not do as well as kids raise by a mother an father . That’s false The said if this passes that the church will half to marry gays . That’s false. They say that people in civil unions have the same rights an married people . That’s false
Drumming up business, or local kids who are tired of looking at bigotry?
yes that could happen
It was a heterosexual who posted originally.
If, “I am not going to your place anymore” is attacking, then I want more Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses attacking me…
Too bad the Treworgy family was not shown the same tolerance as the Yes voters are vocal about.
So the anti-gay-marriage crowd never resorts to boycotts or publicly decrying businesses that take a political stand?
Please do some google searches for NOM and Starbucks, General Mills, JC Penny, etc etc etc.
Businesses have a right to express their views, and customers have a right to respond to them. This business simply realized that ostracizing customers on the gay marriage issue wasn’t worthwhile when you are a small business in Maine.
Well you see, it’s ok when the other side does it. Why can’t people understand that freedom of speech does NOT equal freedom from criticism?
Bullying.
I disagree— the messages I saw on the facebook page were expressing disappointment that this orchard was taking this stance against families who shop there. No one forced anyone to put a sign up or take a sign down.
If this is bullying, then so are the boycotts that fundamentalists orchestrate toward Starbucks, JC Penny, Target, General Mills, Disney, and many, many other companies for their support of equality.
What IS bullying is the constant ridicule and taunts that our gay and lesbian children face in schools across this nation, driving some to suicide. THAT is unacceptable no matter what side you are on the gay marriage issue, I hope we can agree.
Unfortunately, the religious right would disagree. That’s why they oppose any anti-bullying measures that would protect LGBT students.
The no vote will win!!!
By what percentage rate ?
There are Yes on One signs all through downtown in business windows so if people are boycotting because personal opinion shouldn’t be expressed at a person’s business, why aren’t they being harassed?
Perhaps those people know that people have different opinions? Again, if, “I am not going to your place anymore” is attacking, then I want more Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses attacking me…
So lesbians should be able to get married? Just not gay men ? Well THAT’s a brilliant legal defense of why same sex marriage should not happen.
‘Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don’t ask me to wear your shoes.’ -George Carlin
Gee I haven’t found a good Orchard since Merrill’s closed. Now I’ll just look them up on the net (since the story doesn’t say where they are) and wow.. real local apples and cider again.
Hope they don’t close before I get over there.
B.T.W. this has nothing to do with my beliefs (or lack of them) about marriage. it’s about apples… and maybe a little about free speech.
Yes..I find your drama amusing Son. Your paranoia and how the world should revolve around you and your christian beliefs is hilarious. ‘Oh no Satan !!!’ LOL.
Tell me more of your knowledge of gay things… How about the women? What about the people born with both sexes, or with 2 sets of DNA? Should gay people have to get a sex change to marry in your terribly informed opinion?
you are hilarious.
You are a sick, sick puppy.
Please replace the sign and stand your ground against these left wing extremists! Moral integrity goes much further in business than cowering under pressure!
I have the same problem in one of my businesses…cameras and lights do wonders with these cowards who would steal our first amendment and want to silence us!
No one vandalized their business or took their sign… or do you think that a “Facebook page” is some sort of physical item at their farm?
I’m not sure what good cameras and lights do for facebook…
Cameras and lights? You know you dont stand for anything these people stand for. Treworgy Farms do you see what this caused? No one touched their property. By yelling at those who were agaisnt the sign you are taking away their first ammendment rights.
he has a right to post the sign but he also has to be prepared for the consequences ( other will also exert their free speech rights)
back to the closet
the world would end if the gays have their way
back to the closet and dont come out
They’re not going anywhere — sorry, sweetie.
what proof do you have ?
Dude, you come across exactly the same as those racist southerners when interracial marriage was legal only in some US states.
Since our country’s inception there have been groups that have seen the promise of our Constitution, and petitioned our society for equal rights, access to government, and legal protections. And all along the way there have been people predicting doom and gloom and national destruction if we extend these things to one more group, race, sex, or other minority.
And every time they have failed, and every time our nation has failed to self-destruct. This is just the next way in which our constitution is fulfilling its promise to ALL Americans.
This is just the beginning of what this disaster will do to Maine. Chick-fila Apple orchards these people will stop at nothing to pass this social mess. Save our business in Maine vote no on 1
Huh? What affect does civil marriage equality have on businesses, except perhaps to increase business to wedding planners and hosting facilities?
Homosexual acts are sin! I want to than the Treworgys for standing behind what they believe in! The left wing extremist democrat party would like nothing better than to use the tactics of “SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND BUSINESS”!!!
Whats next?…separation between church and people?
All people sin every day all people are immoral one way or another take off you blinders an look at the big picture .
You’re making no sense here. No one forced anyone to remove their sign, they decided it might be bad for business to tick off customers that don’t share such a harmful view toward same sex families in Maine.
Whats funny is their morals werent strong enough to let them lose money.
doofus….thats the best you have? I rest.my case…resorting to name calling..very mature
I hope that in the next article, that Gary Treworgy holds to his faith and stands his ground and puts the sign back up!
We all need to speak out against the abomination and immoral ways of the gay lifestyle, let alone letting them corrupt the sanctity of marriage.
Plain and simple God made man and woman to be together
There is nothing immoral about two people blessed enough to find in one another a committed, stable monogamous relationship that lasts a lifetime. We should encourage more couples to marry, not discourage them.
Hey, if you want to express your opinion, don’t start crying when someone else does the exact same thing.
Free speech, free speech, free speech!!!
No one is disagreeing with their right to post a sign!
People expressed disappointment with the sign, and said they would stop doing business with them as a result. This is no different than NOM boycotting Starbucks for their public support of same-sex marriage.
The business had a right to display the sign, and they heard from their customers about it. This is no different than if they had done something else that displeased their customers (such as posting a “Patriots Stink!” sign), and reacted to it in order to keep customers.
When you run a business, it is not a good idea to take sides on an issue like this. It backfires and causes you to lose business
As a small business owner I do not put political sign up. For one reason only. The subject of politics is a never ending argument. I like to live life as argument free as possible. I know who and what I am voting for and that’s all that counts. How I vote is no ones business just like how other people vote is none of mine. As far as question one goes,I am leaving that blank because IT’S NONE OF MY BUSINESS! I am not filling in for God.
God works through people! You should care what is good and what is bad!
Allowing same-sex marriage is the morally right thing to do, so that all Maine families have the opportunity to protect the lives they build together with civil marriage.
But small business owners are wise to stay out of the fray on this, ticking off a customer for reasons unrelated to your business is just dumb, no matter your opinion on gay marriage.
I think the Treworgys have every right to put up their “No on 1” sign. I also believe that SSM supporters are within their right to boycott their business.
Whoever designed the “No on 1” signs should be fired. At least the “YES ON 1” signs can be comprehended when you’re going 50 mph.
The specific sexual acts a couple engage in is nobody’s business. Get your nose out of other people’s bedrooms. There are heterosexual couples who engage in sodomy. Should their marriages be prevented/dissolved?
There is a price for every action we take. There is a cost to every word we speak. I chose to patronize businesses that support the causes I believe in as much as possible. There are natural consequences when you take a stand. If it costs your pocketbook, earnings, perhaps you need to consider that prior to alienating customers.
It does not matter what the political sign is about. It is a WISE Business practice to NEVER put up Political signs at your place of business or on a business vehicle. It is a poor way to run a business, and is just plain stupid.
RAmen.
SonofBangor should change his name to Comment removed.
We are all Americans here, and we believe in free speech —
except perhaps the homosexual rights movement, as proven by the silencing of Treworgy Farms.
Hey DaughterWannabeOfBangor… this is a private forum.
You do not have freedom of speech in a private space.
Treworgy Farms silenced themselves because others expressed their freedom of speech.
So now there is no freedom of speech even in the press?
You had better wake up, Maine.
Are you the one deleting my comments?
In a private forum?
No… which explains why I’ve been repeatedly banned from wnd.com, cnsnews.com, lifesitesnews.com and all the other wingnut sites who tolerate your kind, but not someone standing up for the Constitution or reason and rational thought.
It’s a private forum… get over it. Don’t like it, start your own site or go hang where your kind and your lies and vitriol are tolerated.
And no sweetie… I can’t delete your posts. But I’m sure if you stopped trolling and started using sources, your posts wouldn’t be flagged.
Blame no one but yourself.
Freedom of speech is sacred to Americans, and this is a newspaper.
And keep your degenerate, uncouth language to yourself.
If the freedom of speech you’re referring to is the one in the constitution, then it doesn’t apply here.
So sweetcheeks, if you are willing to allow anyone who wishes to walk into your home and say anything they feel, then fine… otherwise, it’s just another demonstration of your hypocrisy, because if you think “freedom of speech” applies here, it also applies in your living room.
Don’t understand private property do you hon?
I don’t think SonOfBangor understand much of anything. Just remind him that every time he uses his computer, he is, in some way, supporting same sex marriage.
Why was my post about the Chicago Leather Museum deleted?
You people can’t win without hiding the truth.
You want everyone to perceive “gay” “marriage” as sweetness and light, so the truth about all the abnormal behavior must be hidden.
The lies are allowed to flourish, and the truth is struck down.
Christians are bad, the Bible is bad, “God is a myth” and homosexuals are heroic martyrs.
America, you are one sick place!
It was thier choice to take the sign down!They had their freedom and the other side had theirs. Why do you feel only side gets a voice.
Your earlier hate-filled post had zero to do with the topic.
HOw did anyone silence them. it is a touchy subject and they chose a side and people disagreed wit them. I am gay. People disagree with me all the time. I am not ending my relationship over it. These people made a choice. No one made them make it.
The boycotting of this business is why I get so upset at the GLBT community. Listen, people are entitled to their own beliefs. If you choose not to patronize a business beause of their political view feel free to do so. However attempting to ruin that business is sickening, boycotting a smal family busienss will have litlte impact, other then hurting the business. That was your gaol, shut th ebusiness down. It is obvious that the family business never denied GLBTs the right to patronize the business, why do you feel you need to upset their business because they don’t agree with you? You lost my vote to re-define marriage. If I had a busienss I would put a large vote no on it, post no trespassing, and if you boycotted I would get out the garden hose and soak you.
Yes ball all means take you ball and go home like any other 6 year old. I sincerely doubt their business will shut down that’s nothing more than ridiculous drama…but here’s something I know- when I go to work I check my religion and politics at the door and pick them up when I leave. It’s not rocket science – it’s common sense.
The only reason why we check politics at the front door at work is because most businesses have policies because they are afraid of lawsuits. For example, the government has the “Hatch” policy. It has nothing to do with the “right thing”. It is to mitigate law suits. No they won’t shut down, athough I’m sure there are many who react hoping that they will be shut down.
“The boycotting of this business is why I get so upset at the GLBT community.”
But you’re not upset with NOM and other fundy brigades calling for boycotts on Home Depot, General Mills, Google, Apple, etc… etc… etc…? ROFLOL!!! Oh, that’s just pathetic.
Hypocrisy is alive and well in America, and more so in Maine.
Ok the anti gay side has boycotted 4 times the amount of businesses as the pro side.
This has been a fun exercise! Iexpresses disagreement and I’m immediately ridculed, told I’m “backward”, “gay hater”, “bad friend”, close minded, etc. Yippeeee for tolerance. I don’t respect others rights because I don’t agree,. I’m a discriminating evil backward closed minded Mainer! Nice. Well the gays are close minded, racist, straight hating, backward in their thinking……………. They don’t respect my rights as an American citizen and are forcing their views on millions of straight citizens. Who do I sound like?
You didn’t just “express disagreement” you stated that you do not believe that I am an equal citizen. You are telling millions of people that their love does not matter and that they are not worthy of equal treatment from the govermnet. Then, you act “surprised’ when people call you out on it? Please, you expect people to believe that you are some sort of “victim” because LGBT people won’t let you take away their rights? Get over yourself.
You dont sound like me. I am an educated professional. I dont think anyone should call anyone names. I wish they would have left the sign up. It makes good honest hardworking American citizens look bad that they took it down. i believe we all have the right to love who we love as long as they are consenting adults.
I don’t believe anything that I said in the post you’re responding to. However I wanted to illustrate a point. I wish they had left it up as well, not because I want to deny anyone what they think is right. It is sad that pressure was placed on them and they felt they needed to respond to that pressure. That is what upset me. I would not expect an opposing viewpoint to take their sign down.
I was in the facebook post. It was an argument for both sides. A fair, freedom of speech argument with both sides giving their views. Many people boycott businesses for many reasons and that is their right. I boycotted Spencers in the mall because they were selling Charles Manson T shirts. i went back eventually. I didnt make a fuss over it. it was my choice.
There were just as many people on FB that agreed with the farm.
I would prefer you did not take away my rights. I didnt take the sign down nor did I boycott the business and the person who started the whole was heterosexual.
Thank you Jersey for simply stating how you felt and not attacking. I did not know the person who started this was straight. I should not have assumed it was someone who is gay.
How can a right be taken away when it was never a right?
Good point think911. I am a gay woman in a monogamous relationship. We are both educated professionals and we are raising three daughters. We both have strong faith in God and country. I even researched it to make sure it wasnt harmful. No other country or state is having any real problems with it. We just want to get married.
You’re assuming that only GLBTs are making waves for this farm. That’s just not the case. There are many, many, many thousands and thousands of hetero’s that support the right for EVERYONE to marry the person they choose. I don’t see that anyone wishes to shut them down, but to demonstrate that they rely on the general public to make their living. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you and all that.
You should probably thank the No on One campaign for this over reaction. They chose to run ads featuring the Vermont Inn Keepers lamenting that the gay marriage laws made it impossible for them to discriminate against gay couples. The truth is, that couple was sued on the basis of a completely DIFFERENT law, so the ad isn’t even accurate.
And BTW, your statement about having a businesess with a no trespassing sign and turning a hose on people? Totally irrational, although it says a lot about you.
“If I had a busienss I would put a large vote no on it, post no
trespassing, and if you boycotted I would get out the garden hose and
soak you.” I think you misunderstand the boycott. I’m boycotting the business by simply taking my business elsewhere. It’s not a question of standing around holding signs outside the business. No one is attempting to ruin their business, simply express our believe that the LGBT community is equal to the straight community. I’m in the straight community by the way, but I believe in equality. I believe that everyone should have the right to marry the one they love and want to grow old with regardless of their sexual preferences. This business does not believe that so I’ll go elsewhere rather than support a business that wants to discriminate.
lets reverse this. I’m going to stop by and ask every supporter to remove their vote yes on question 1 signs because it is hurtful. It is hurtful to me because I believe marriage is between a woman and a man. Is it “right” for me to do so? The answer is “No”. so why is “right” for the GLBT community and their supporters to think I should remove a vote no on question 1 sign?
LOL… and you’ll be told no.
The responsibility for this, and any impact on their business, falls to the family themselves.
They expressed their freedom of speech… so did lots of other folks.
No one asked them to take down the sign. i was in the thread. People just said that they would not patronize their business if they left it up. They chose the mighty dollar over their beliefs. Plain and simple.
No, you can ask people to do that if you want to. That is considered free speech. You just can’t FORCE someone to take the sign down. Ask all you want, but when they laugh, don’t act surprised…
and no one forced them to take the sign down! See how that worked?
Can’t we all just get along?
Aww, did those little “facts” put a damper on your “good ole’ days” argument?
while everyone has a right to their own views .. Business should keep their views privite … the only way you can please everyone is to keep your personal views on political matters privite.
Posting of the no on 1 sign .. I am sure was like a punch in the face to the LBGT customers and their supporters. They where sent the message that your family, your family rights just do not matter but we will gladly except your money.. NOT GOOD BUSINESS!!!
Personally I do not deal with any Business that has Political Posting, reguardless of the issue. I just find some where else to go. Being a business owner I also check my personal views at the door.
On this Matter it might have been smarter for those opposed to the sign to quitly stop dealing with Treworgys then to add fuel to the fire. The whole matter seems to have blown up and is now news worthy … You have fed into the no on 1’s whole point. Did you stop and think that this might have what they wanted? I am sure we will soon see the TV adds for this exploted by no on 1..
Business and politics just do not mix ..
I agree with you wholeheartedly! My parents taught me long ago not to mix business with politics. They also taught me to not discuss politics, finance, or religion with others. There was a reason for that. There is a reason we do secret ballots at the polls right?
1st Amendent
“CONGRESS” shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition of the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Seems the 1st Amendment protects us from the government. I”m not sure how we got to the point of the 1st amndement protecting us from each other. This whole debate isn’t about fre speech. I think it should be about respect. The GLBT community does not want us boycotting their places of business becase it offends them. We should choose to respect that. These people choose to express thir beliefs and those opposed should respect that. If they disagree educate, not criticize. Stop hiding behind freedoms. With freedom comes responisbility, everyone should take some responisbility for their actions.
And I think the first group that should take responsibility is the family that put up the sign. They need to take responsibility for their actions and realize that their speech has consequences, in this case, they will lose some customers. If they don’t like that, tough, they shouldn’t have gotten political in the first place.
“The GLBT community does not want us boycotting their places of business becase it offends them.” – Not really. I’ve seen people make fun of anti-gay protests, but not like the complaining on here about “rights” being violated. Besides, the people who protest LGBT supportive businesses don’t respect the LGBT community anyway, or else they wouldn’t be also campaigning to take away our rights.
“These people choose to express thir beliefs and those opposed should respect that.” – I respect their right to HAVE a belief, but I most certainly do not respect their belief. Why should I respect someone who believes that I am a second class citizen, undeserving of my rights because of the legally consenting adult I am in love with? So no, I don’t respect anyone who won’t respect my rights as an American citizen.
“If they disagree educate, not criticize.” – In this day and age, information is so readily available that ignorance and stupidity is a choice.
ROFLOL!!!
Fundies are the kings of boycotts! Even NOM is in on the action these days.
BOYCOTT Facebook! BOYCOTT Facebook! BOYCOTT Facebook!
Go for it.
Doubt they’ll miss ya.
Look what liberalism is doing to this country!
Freedom of speech is “liberalism”?
Really?
It has nothing to do with Liberals. The other side voiced their free speech just like the farm adn the farm made a conscious decision. No one forced them. You cannot argue free speech only for your side. Everyone gets input.
The problem isn’t a ‘gay’ issue. Most people who vote against gay marriage aren’t votng against gays, just the redifining of the term marriage. No where in the bible did it talk about blacks, Indians, or voting rights. However, the scripure is very clear on it’s stance on marriage. Those who take the scriptures seriously are simplye protecting God’s Word. It in no way makes them bigots or hateful people. They aren’t ‘hating on’ the homosexuals. People are just so quick to point a finger at something they either don’t understand, or don’t care to. Refusing to go to a place of busiess because of their personal views is quite the opposite of exercising ‘free speech’. It sends a message to the public. They didn’t put up a sign that said if you don’t agree with this sign, you’re not welcome on the farm, yet people who disagree are saying, “because we don’t hold your opinion, we can no longer support you”…this is NO different they denying gays the right to marry….it’s hypocrisy in and of itself. People are just so blinded to the truth that they don’t even realize what they are saying most of the time.
“Most people who vote against gay marriage aren’t votng against gays, just the redifining of the term marriage.” – They may think that, but that isn’t what they are doing. They are voting against the rights of millions of American citizens.
“However, the scripure is very clear on it’s stance on marriage.” – That’s nice for their church, but not everyone follows the Bible and should not be forced to follow the Bible.
“They aren’t ‘hating on’ the homosexuals.” – Just voting away their civil rights.
“Refusing to go to a place of busiess because of their personal views is quite the opposite of exercising ‘free speech’.” – No, that is exactly what a boycott is.
“They didn’t put up a sign that said if you don’t agree with this sign, you’re not welcome on the farm,” – No, they just put up a sign that said that LGBT Americans should not have equal rights.
“yet people who disagree are saying, “because we don’t hold your opinion, we can no longer support you”…this is NO different they denying gays the right to marry….it’s hypocrisy in and of itself.” – Wow, you couldn’t be any more wrong. The difference is, the people who put up the sign aren’t having any rights violated. The people denying gays the right to marry are doing just that, taking away a civil right. In the case of this farm, no one is saying that the farm should be legally prevented from putting up that sign.
I understand that you are not “hating” on the gay community, however, why does everyone have to follow the dictates of your scriptures? Not everyone believes in a higher being and not everyone believes in your bible. Those that take the scriptures seriously don’t have to marry a same sex partner. Would you do business with someone who worshipped the devil?
You are correct that nowhere in the bible does it talk about blacks, Indians, or voting rights.
Those things, like civil marriage, are separate from religion, and are issues of governance.
The truth is that civil marriage conveys thousands of benefits and privileges by our government, and there is no justifiable reason for our government to discriminate against same-sex couples for civil marriage.
I am voting YES on 1 in November, because ALL Maine families deserve the opportunity to protect the lives they build together, and the children they raise together.
Didn’t have to take it down folks…
You could have just lived with the consequences.
With 9 million children being raised by Gay and Lesbian couples in this country a family business should not be political. It is ultimately their choice. No one took the sign down for them. They chose to take it down. Stop placing blame. There was no court case. No demands, just other people practicing their right to free speech and the farm CHOSE to take the sign down.
I feel bad they cant express their views. Their views dont change the wonderful place and maze they own.
No one is stopping them from expressing their views. That have that absolute right as far as everyone here is concerned from all the posts I see. Express them, but expect consquences when you do especially on an issue such as this one. If the sign were a mere Romney or Obama supporter I doubt much of anything would have been said about it. It’s the issue that is causing the problem. I cannot support a business that openly says some people are less equal than others.
You are not god.
You are bound by the same civil law as the rest of us.
@sonofbangor
Um… hey genius…
Nobody silenced them. They took the sign down of their own free will.
Good grief…
Just a quick note…yes, we believe in freedom of speech in this country and we are all welcome to share our views on any subject we choose, however, freedom of speech, just like any other freedom comes with a price. When you choose to make your views known to the public the public can choose to disagree and choose not to do business with you. For every action there is a reaction. Simple really
Most of these “boycotters” probably don’t even do business at this place anyway.
I am sorry you are so angry. Really. I am not a liberal. i am a Conservative. I just think the government needs to be out of peoples lives. I would never want to line in a theocracy. They never work.
Those who preach tolerance…aren’t very!
Sure they are… they didn’t try to involve the state to have rights taken away from this family.
They expressed their freedom of speech. And the family didn’t like it.
Oh well… they got what they wanted: attention to their little sign.
You poor pathetic little man.
You’re one of the saddest creatures I’ve seen in a very very long time.
You know… if you lied less, I doubt your posts would be pulled so fast.
Your fear mongering has nothing to do with marriage, and every thing to do with what a fearful thing you are.
I don’t agree with the message of the sign, but I feel as though they should be able to post a sign if it is their opinion. It is their land and their right to express their feelings.
If they do so at the peril of losing business, that is on them.
You’re a liar.
You’re as unAmerican and as psychotic as they come.
We are not a democracy (showing your ignorance yet again), we are a republic.
Treworgy Farms doesn’t like free speech… so they ran away from it.
Wingnuts generally are a cowardly lot.
Just ignore SonOfBangor, he’s a troll who is just trying to get a reaction out of you. If we ignore him, he will get bored and go away.
While I personally have no objection to marriage or “civil unions” by same-gender couples, I view that issue as far less important than the right of individuals to express themselves on any issue without fear of retaliation. I hope they put the sign back up.
I support their right to express themselves on any issue too but they must be willing to accept the consequences of that expression. MY freedom of expression says I don’t do business with those who believe in discriminating against certain members of society. I assume you support me in this as well. It is their choice but consquences will flow from that choice whether the sign was NO or YES on 1.
The need to retaliate against those who express opinions differing from my own would be, in my estimation, the mark of faulty character or a weak argument. I do not think that “same sex marriage” is a weak argument. Why, then, do its proponents feel the need to attack those who think otherwise?
The thing is, it’s not just a “different opinion”. It’s an opinion that we are second class citizens who do not deserve certain rights. Can you honestly not see how being told “I don’t think you should be treated as a full citizen” would upset some people?
For purposes of a political campaign it is nothing more, or less, than a difference of opinion. Once one side or another raises the stakes to justify retaliation of some sort, political violence cannot be too far away. Isn’t that the whole reason that we have elections – to avoid political violence?
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
—–Original message—–
Once again, it isn’t just a “political campaign”, it’s people’s rights we are talking about. I’m not justifying retaliation, but categorize voting against someone’s rights as a “difference of opinion” doesn’t fully capture the gravity of the situation.
Every political issue involves people’s rights. I suppose there’s a natural tendency to believe that when it’s “our” rights that are involved, the situation is more important, but that’s just vanity, isn’t it. This ballot question doesn’t “vote against someone’s rights.” Just the opposite: The question is whether or not to expand certain legal definitions, and this has widespread potential repercussions (not the least of which are monetary) that go beyond anybody’s feelings. And don’t tell me that we can’t put a price tag on somebody’s rights – we do it all the time. When we get into the political arena, the word “tolerance” takes on broader meaning, or else the system stops working. People get to disagree with this publicly.
“This ballot question doesn’t “vote against someone’s rights.”” – Yes, it does. The supreme court has ruled, multiple times, that marriage is in fact a right. This vote is about whether or not rights apply to all citizens, or if a certain subsection of citizens do not get their right to marriage.
“The question is whether or not to expand certain legal definitions, and
this has widespread potential repercussions (not the least of which are
monetary) that go beyond anybody’s feelings.” – Such as?
” People get to disagree with this publicly.” – No one’s stopping anyone from expressing their views publicly. But the right that allows someone to disagree with equality is the same right that allow someone else to call them out on it.
I’m not attacking anyone and neither is the vast majority of people who support equal rights in this country. It would seem to be that YOU are the one attacking me now for expressing my opinion because it’s different to yours. I’m simply stating that a business that wants to exclude a group of people from enjoying all the benefits of our society needs to anticipate and expect consequcnes from their actions.
Would you please cite your facts because frankly, I think you are way off on the serial killer one. homosexuals are no different then any one else. There are good people and evil people no matter what gender, race, or religion. Marriage is about two people who love each other and want to announce to the world and the government that fact. It has nothing at all to do with your ideas on what a homosexual is!
I just told someone else, SonOfBangor is most likely a troll who is just trying to get a reaction out of people. If we ignore him, he will get bored and go away.
So what is basically being said is that only one side has the right to say what they want?? Or put up their signs? Remember people , everyone does not feel the same on any issue!–
no, what’s being said is that you have the right to put up your signs but others have the right to choose to do business with you if you do. If it had been a yes sign it would have had the same consequences.
I am a gay woman and I have had a death threat mailed to my home. it did not stop me from being gay. It did not stop me from putting a sign out. Why, because I believe in my side. It is obvious the Farm does not believe as strongly in theirs.
I wish people would stop saying things like this. No one said they have no rights! People are allowed to not like what people say or put on their lawn. There is nothing in your freedom of speech that promises you that people must like what you say, or honor your business if you choose to publicize it.
They have all their rights. They CHOSE to take the sign down.
This is not a freedom of speech issue, they have not been forced to do anything!
Mr. Sonofbangor,
God will punish you for lying.
So, they can voice their opinion but we cant voice ours. And the fact that they dont want to lose money (like the 12 plus businesses boycotted by the con side) so they took the sign down is nobodys chouce but their own.
Ignore SonOfBangor, he is a troll who is just trying to get reactions out of people.
I am a gay woman. I do not commit sodomy. jus sayin
God Bless You . I said a prayer. You are so sad. Jesus cries.
What about all of the straight folks involved in Sodomy, littleboyofbangor?
What of those?
How are you going to marry your cat?
Same as marrying the same sex. You ask a good question.
Oh please! Different species…totally lame arguement.
Married men and women bugger each other all the time.
Good grief… you’re pathetic.
Repeatedly buggering? I am in a monogamous same sex relationship. So are many of our gay friends. i am still praying for you.
I really wish people would people would respect others opinions regardless of whether or not you agree with them or not. If you don’t like their opinion and wish to boycott, then by all means you have the right to do so. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn’t make ridiculing someone or otherwise harassing someone the right thing to do. We are all human beings, we all have different opinions, we need to respect each other.
So you find one homosexual who did the wrong thing and group us together? Would you like me to find the stats on domestic violence in Maine this year from heterosexuals?
For others to have a marriage which differs from _your_ idea of what marriage should be is not *redefining* it, any more than your marriage redefines theirs.
You marry the way you want to, and let others marry the way they choose.
As long as you lie and simply aim to make people angry (you’re trolling) you should be flagged.
Exactly. Ignore the troll and flag his comments.
Tell me again why people who are against gay marriage don’t have the same right to speech as the ones who do support it.
They do.
The family expressed their right to free speech, and so did those who disagreed.
Text book case.
Tell me again why people don’t understand the concept of free speech? Free speech does NOT equal freedom from criticism.
Well said.
It all depends on how it is said an that goes for both sides .
People keep saying things like “If this was a Yes on 1” sign nobody would say anything. While you didn’t say this, its the only reason I can think of that people keep claiming the anti-gay marriage group isn’t afforded the same rights as the pro?
Well if this is the case, you are mistaken along with everyone else who keeps saying these things. All that indicates is that people who oppose “Yes on 1” signs don’t exercise THEIR free speech as often as those who oppose “No on 1” signs.
which makes sense, as those who are oppressed, or empathize with the oppressed tend to be more outspoken, then those who are not oppressed and wish to oppress others. At least at the time of a tipping point on a social issue, which i think we are in the throws of on gay marriage.
Anyway, there is no good argument that the anti-gay marriage group is lacking any rights the pro-gay marriage group has. Not a one….as for the reverse? Well….
Oh they absolutely DO have the right to freedom of speech and so do those that support SSM.
You’re lying again.
No source to defend your claims…
And none of it has anything to do with marriage.
CDC statistics demonstrate that around 600,000 gay citizens currently are living with AIDS… out of 9 – 12 million. It’s a tiny minority.
So your 40x figure is trolling… it doesn’t tell the whole story.
As long as that is how you choose to behave, you will be flagged.
As for serial killers, that’s just a flat out lie.
Please do not feed the trolls. Just flag his inflammatory comments and move on.
Yeah, I know… but his angst pleases me.
Sad that they didn’t stand their ground but understandable since the homosexual community is such ardent supporters of their own bigotry and hatred for morality. Maine’s liberals are frantic about the coming elections and can’t seem to be civil in any arena or discourse…….look at the posters here……just sad for Maine.
Posters here? Yeah, the extreme fringe wingnut like to come here and lie about gay citizens, the nature of free speech… it’s really sad.
Teddie’s Dictionary: Lie: someone who holds an opinion different than my own and makes a better argument than I ever could
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh wait, you’re serious….
No hon… a lie can be proven untrue.
Opinions do not matter when it comes to lies.
And no sweetcheeks… you wingnuts wishing to harm Maine citizens have no better argument than I.
Excuse me…I take exception to your statement. I have been extremely cordial here. As far as I can see there is only one poster here who has been belligerent. Being liberal has nothing to do with it. The topic is that if you choose free speech and decide to air your political views at your business you must be prepared to take the consequences for your actions. Years ago my father refused to do business with those that supported abortion. At times it inconvenienced him, however, it made him feel better to make that statement. That was his choice. I refuse to do business with anyone who would be prejudiced against race, gender, religion, or sexual preference. Some (maybe even you) would not do business with someone who worshipped Satan. As I said before, every action has a reaction.
…
Just drove by and they still have it up.
Good! Now lets hope they understand what free speech is and don’t start bellyaching when those that disagree with them speak their mind.
PS: sin exists only in your mind and mythology… not in civil law. This is a good thing.
Trust me…they will have to expand…Have you forgotten Chik-Fil-A?…..people flock to others who hold the same values….now, where is that list of apple orchards of those who support same-sex marriage…..
I don’t know, making the smart business decision to keep their private political views private?
Just shows to go ya… popularity means nothing.
In court, my friend… that’s where it will end.
And where you will lose.
One wonders what you guys will do then.
“Have you forgotten Chik-Fil-A?” and it seems neither has Chik-Fil-A…..
September 19, 2012 – “Chick-Fil-A adopts gay-neutral stance”
“A Chick-fil-A executive confirmed that the company will stop donating to
groups like Focus on the Family and the National Organization for
Marriage, according to The Civil Rights Agenda, a Chicago-based
gay-rights organization.”
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-09-19/news/33957295_1_gay-marriage-anti-gay-groups-adoption-by-gay-couples
Unfortunately, that is not the case. They reversed that a couple days later.
Haven’t been able to find any reference to a reversal.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/22/chick-fil-a-president-no-concessions-same-sex-marriage-supporters_n_1905885.html
That’s because there has been no reversal.
i remember chik-fil-A., just eat more chikin, husbands & wives, boyfriends & girlfriends, go pick some pumpkins!! and vote NO on question 1!!
Gambling is immoral and sinful.
When men look at a women an wish they could go t bed with them tha’ts immoral an sinful
I sure sin often then!
you forgot the rest of the sentence “in my opinion.”
You wanna bet on that?
I think its alright for someone to post their opinion just like everyone else can…..You see the signs everywhere, quit making a fuss over someone standing for what THEY believe in!! I disagree with his way of voting BUT his opinion isnt wrong, its HIS opinion…..
As is the opinion of those who disagree.
That is the nature of free speech. I agree that outrage expressed via Facebook is petty… but, that’s a platform for speech.
Much more effective to just cease doing business with them and be done with it.
Is it all petty though? I don’t think so. Extreme or irrational comments, spewing hatred….yes. Informing a business why you have chosen to no longer support them, or informing them that their actions have hurt them?
seems constructive to me….then the business can take that information under consideration and decide if what they are doing outweighs the costs.
That’s what I meant by “outrage”… sorry it wasn’t clear.
FB would be the correct setting to alert them to lost business… emotional vitriol usually takes over unfortunately.
http://www.upworthy.com/this-preacher-attacks-gay-marriage-and-it-makes-me-want-to-marry-him?c=cc1
Check out the video
Love that video…
Nothing I’ve yet seen published demonstrates that we’ve seen this mentality before.
And that the same arguments failed then, just as they will now.
Children.. Just vote.
Takeover?
BWA HA HA HA HA HA… Oh my…
Your fear is pretty funny!
I’m sure if they had a sign that said “Vote ‘yes’ on Question 1” that those who DIDN’T agree with them would have still frequented their business. I know I would have, either way, regardless of what I believe. Tolerance goes in all directions and first starts with respect. The best thing these people who got insulted could have done, is to continue to frequent this business to show that they themselves are tolerant and good examples of what they, themselves, personally believe in. No one should be ‘punished’ or boycotted simply for having the courage to state what they believe or don’t believe in. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and don’t expect anything in return…
Choosing to spend your dollar elsewhere is now ‘intolerance’?
So you feel hurt or offended by a business and what you should do is keep spending your money there?
That is pretty much the opposite from the way it should work.
Choosing to spend your money at a place that does not hurt or offend you is not intolerance, it is what drives our economy and drives business competition. And it is in no way comparable to a *legislated* intolerance (which is what a ban on gay marriage is)
Really? They would?
Maybe because they know that Yes on 1 does no harm… while No on 1 does.
Just maybe… or they’re very weak in their convictions.
It is not intolerant to boycott a local company that wishes to harm Maine citizens. Not in the least.
Or are you implying that intolerance of harm is a bad thing?
Why aren’t you calling out against the boycotts against Home Depot, Ford, General Mills, and all the rest? It is, after all, no different.
Do unto others? Well, No on 1 wish to harm folks… are you asking us to do the same to them?
I’m not so sure of that Paula. There are many business being boycotted by the right wing because of their support of SSM. I suspect you’d have found that many many right-wingers would not have gone to this business if a YES sign were placed there. Why should I take my business to a place that want to treat a part of our society as less than equal? I don’t. I remember back in the 50’s and 60’s when my mother would not go to Woolworth’s because of their segregation in the south. I follow in her footsteps and proud of it.
As the saying goes, You can a lot catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
To Paula D:
“I’m sure if they had a sign that said “Vote ‘yes’ on Question 1″ that those who DIDN’T agree with them would have still frequented their business.” – Groups like One Million Moms kinda prove you wrong.
“Tolerance goes in all directions and first starts with respect. ” – The “No on 1” people are trying to vote away the rights of LGBT Americans. What is so “respectful” about that?
The attacks of “boycotts are intolerant” just oozes with hypocrisy, does it not?
I have no problem with the Treworgy family putting the sign up. I have no problem with marriage being defined as strictly between a man and a woman.
All I want is to be able to have legal right to see my significant other in the hospital when he’s dying, or vice versa – a right I fear I still won’t have when death comes for one of us.
You can get that in Maine with a domestic partnership…
But it won’t save your investments.
Domestic partnership is a long way from marriage and really is nothing much more than a power of attorney. Equality for all takes care of that problem.
Thank you. As a new resident, I was not aware of Maine’s ability to grant domestic partnerships. I’d like to point out also that many people (some whom I am friends with) who oppose same-sex marriage for religious reasons do support the fight for extending the benefits of marriage to domestic partnerships. A separate but equal approach if you will.
Believe me… the domestic partnerships are NOT equal to marriage… and are not going to assist you anywhere but Maine.
As for “separate but equal”, I look to the protests and outpouring of hostility by religious groups whenever civil unions are passed in a state… I look to NOM’s Brian Brown who calls civil unions “fake marriage”.
At the federal level, and that’s where this will end, there is no civil union… there is no domestic partnerships. Any attempt to create such would lead to more outpourings of hostility against “fake marriage”. For those folks it has nothing to do with marriage… it has to do with treating gay citizens well, which they don’t want.
With all the hostility, and the fact that there is nothing but marriage at the federal level, my days of calling for compromise have all but ended.
The only ” hateful and discriminatory” people are the ones criticizing a person for exercising his freedom of speech. But then the left is well know for it’s intolerance of people with opinions different from theirs.
Freedom of speech =/= freedom from criticism
If he didn’t want his views to be criticized, he should have kept them private. Instead, he made his views public and people used their right to free speech to (rightly) criticize his view.
Criticism is not discrimination….its rather outlandish to even suggest so.
No one is criticizing their freedom of speech… they’re exercising their own.
It’s shameful that people would use facebook to bully others who don’t support their personal agenda. Bullies are everywhere and these days it seems it’s easier for them to find a platform to harm others. Today it’s “let’s boycott a business for the owner’s political views.” Tomorrow it will be “let’s boycott a businsess for the sheer fun of seeing how fast it folds.” Bullying is not proper use of free speech.
Yeah… they used Facebook to “bully” while the farm used a sign.
Big difference.
How do you feel about the well publicized boycotts of Home Depot, Ford, General Mills, JC Penny, etc…?
Are you against those too?
I’m sorry but I disagree with you. This isn’t about bullying this is about freedom of expression. They chose to show their political view and those that disagreed chose to show their disappointment. Businesses should not discuss religion or politics. This is an old tried and true rule. There is a reason we have a secret ballot system at the polls. It isn’t to keep the poll volunteers busy. Just like I chose to not reveal my true identity on this discussion forum because although I truly love debating and I stand behind my opinions I don’t choose to allow my opinions to bias my business. Simple, fundamental business 101.
Treworgy opened the door. Turnabout is fair play.
it is called mob scare tactics or mob mentality, or true democracy.and it happens all the time.get a bunch of people together and impose your will on others.i do not give a rip one way or another about question one,been married long enough to hope they know they might need to be careful,they might get what they wish for. that having been said,to boycott a business based on this issue alone is just plain stupid. if we boycotted every business based on one single issue,we would be spending a lot of time driving town to town to get what we need. i for one would still be lookin for a store that sells moxie and beef jerky but not booze and cigarettes. think i will stop in for some apples this weekend.if you support free speech,you’ll do the same.
I support free speech and I support people rights to act upon that free speech. I would never boycott a place because of who they voted for a political office but I will boycott a business because of it’s stated views on social issues. Why should I support a business, regardless of their reason, that want to exclude a part of our society from the benefits of our society. It’s discrimination no matter how you look at it, and I won’t go to a business that I know does not believe in equality. This business doesn’t.
Experess your opinion, invite others to do the same.
THAT is free speech toots.
Why do you hate freedom of speech? After all, aren’t you wingnuts boycotting JC Penny, General Mills, and Home Depot?
But (and here’s the funny part)… you’re here supporting Microsoft, Google, Adobe, Apple, and oh so many more companies that support gay rights.
For that, we thank you!
Guess you are not familar with “Church Chat” which was a skit performed by Dana Carvey on Saturday Night Live.
You will forgive me, but no, I haven’t.
I have been reading Hegel and Bible commentaries mostly.
How is Saturday Night Live?
Do you learn much about gay marriage from watching?
Hegel? Who’s that? Is he like, important or something? I don’t know much about philosophy, I’ve been busying sleeping my life away in the ‘merican Dream.
I’ve personally learned nothing from SNL, but it sure helped to pass the time.
I have never been to Treworgy Farms. But now because they DID put that sign out, I’ll be sure to start going!
Democracy is a messy process. The farm has the right to express a belief that many find noxious. Conversely, others of differing philosophy, have the right to free expression and association. I’ll pick the path of inclusiveness! With liberty and justice for all, “Yes” on one.
Well said!
I don’t see McDonald’s posting signs (pro or con) on their front lawn. This will be interesting to see how this plays out for the Treworgy Farm. I will not express my view points on same sex marriage. This I will ask……..do we not take our children to the emergency room because the Doctor is gay. Do we take the children out of school because they have a gay teacher and so on………Please don’t teach our children to be bigots.
But it is o.k to be gay and trash a (family) business because it believes in traditional marriage? How many boycotts do you see from yes signs.
Trash the family business?
Boycotting them is no different than the fundy boycotts of Home Depot… General Mills… etc… Why do you say nothing of that? They’re ALL boycotts from the crowd voting “No” on referendum 1.
Why don’t you ask them?
It is perfectly valid to boycott this business if you disagree with their desire to vote yes to harm gay citizens.
I went to Treeworgy farm for the first time with a family member. Truly, had a wonderful time. However, I feel this was a poor business decision. Ultimately, the Treeworgy’s will face the consequences of their decision. Will I return next year. Not sure…….
They made a business decision and they have to live with the consequences…pro or con. That is what happens when you have your business make a public stand.
You can’t shield them from their decisions.. I will go this weekend to show my support by spending money there.
Who is “shielding” anyone from “their decision”. What I stated is fact.
Fact – They made a business decision to place a political sign in front of their business.
Fact – They will have to live with the consequences….pro 0r con.
Fact – That is what happens when you have your business make a public stand.
Fact – You are free to go their this weekend to show your support.
You can post signs vote yes in most places as long as it’s in the state right of way maine law
Never said it was prohibited. Just a poor business decision on their part.
I’m not sure how one’s views on gay marriage affects the way they grow apples, or the quality of their produce. God forbid anyone who owns a business has an opinion.
Treworgy Family Orchards
will continue to be a place that welcomes and serves people from every
walk of life,” he said. “We love all our guests even if we don’t see eye
to eye on everything.”
Way to much common sense and not enough PC for the yes voters to understand.
Hilarious. They’ve managed tens of thousands of dollars worth of free advertising, and some people think they’re being persecuted ?
The No on One crowd strikes me as increasingly delusional and irrational.
I hope this article wakes up Maine voters to vote NO on #1. The disrespect / tolerance the SSM people have for anyone who doesn’t agree with them is horrific. If this SSM passes on Nov. 6 you will see in a very short time a Christian business being sued because they don’t want to do a SS Marriage because of their religious beliefs. They will search out a christian business who is a vendor just like the Aids patient sought out the Bangor dentist years back to sue and prove a point. Even after they are granted to marry they still won’t be satisfied because they can’t fill the void God puts in their heart.
“If this SSM passes on Nov. 6 you will see in a very short time a
Christian business being sued because they don’t want to do a SS
Marriage because of their religious beliefs.”
The vote in November will have NO affect on who can sue for denying services based on sexual orientation.
IT’S ALREADY ILLEGAL IN MAINE FOR A BUSINESS THAT OFFERS A SERVICE OR PRODUCT FOR SALE TO DENY THAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE TO A PERSON OR COUPLE BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION. IT HAS BEEN LAW SINCE 2004!!!
Treworgy’s have weekend small concerts on their property. If SSM passes what’s to prevent SSM wishing to get married on their property? they are a business, open to the public. It’s against their religious beliefs….
Why would a gay couple give these people any money?
It’s just like the women who had AIDS from MA. WHO sought out the dentist in Bangor because they knew he was a christian. This case went to the US supreme court. There will be radicals who will seek out Christian to a sue because they know in advance it’s against their religious beliefs. If Christian vendors were exempt from being sued (religious) for refusing to do Gay marriages it would be one thing. Christian vendors will be force to either quit, or do something against their beliefs.
Should other vendors be legally allowed to refuse services to christians?
Well no, it’s different, you see gay people CHOSE their orientation and religious people have INNATE beliefs…no wait, it seems that I’ve gotten those two mixed up…huh. So, if the argument is that you can discriminate against a person for a certain characteristic as long as they chose that characteristic, then it seems that it should be perfectly ok to discriminate against someone for their religious belifs. If the anti-equal rights crowd believed otherwise, now that would just make them hypocrites.
ROFLOL!!! Agreed…
I love that hypocrisy.
Religion is nothing more than a choice… yet it gets all kinds of special rights.
Too funny.
Yes.
But under federal law, they cannot.
Where is the call to abolish the Civil Rights Acts that give all religious people “special rights”?
You are either intentional being obtuse or you are just plain blind to existing law.
Title 5: ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES AND SERVICES Part 12: HUMAN RIGHTS
Chapter 337: HUMAN RIGHTS ACT Subchapter 5: PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS §4591. Equal access to public accommodations
The opportunity for every individual to have equal access to places of
public accommodation without discrimination because
of race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or
mental disability, religion, ancestry or national origin is recognized
as and declared to be a civil right.
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/5/title5sec4591.html
That is existing law and Question 1 does not change that.
If a gay couple wants a photographer to capture a child’s birthday party and they refuse because the photographer doesn’t agree with a gay couple raising a child the photographer can be sued TODAY
If a lesbian couple wants to rent an apartment and the landlord says no I think lesbians are an abomination the lesbian couple can sue the landlord TODAY.
That’s the law vid….if you want to prevent people from being sued for refusing to serve a person based on “race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or
mental disability, religion, ancestry or national origin” ask your state representative or get a petition drive going because that is the ONLY way to change existing law.
Does Treworgy’s host weddings currently? Do they lease or rent pieces of their property for private functions currently?
If they currently offer, lease or rent for private functions then they are required by law to offer, lease or rent and allow “equal access to places of public accommodation without discrimination because of race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, religion, ancestry or national origin is recognized as and declared to be a civil right.”
If Treworgy’s does not host wedding ceremonies or receptions or parties then they have nothing to worry about. If they refuse access to the corn maze, refuse to sell ice cream or food, or refuse to provide services or products that they provide OTHERS then they are in violation of Maine law.
If for some reason you don’t believe this is the current law here is the link http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/5/title5sec4591.html the “Section History” underneath the law explains when the law was modified. In 2004 Maine voters added “sexual orientation” to the referenced law and that became effective in 2005.
Bottom line….if you offer products or services to the public and you refuse to offer those products or services based on “race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or
mental disability, religion, ancestry or national origin” then you are in violation of Maine law yesterday, today and tomorrow.
The family did nothing wrong in that they have freedom of expression. However there freedom is only from government harassment and censorship, it in no way can protect them from opinions of their fellow citizens, or their customers. To express a view on a controversial issue is risky for business for just that reason, be it political or religious.
I have strong views myself, but I would never post them on a sign at my business for business reasons.
I am sure, that as the family business has a good reputation, there will be no long term damage to the family business. It just is a illustration of the fact that our freedom of expression do not protect us from the opinions of our fellow citizens, as there is no way to do that, and never has been. Once the elections season is over tempers will cool, at least till we start the next election silly season. Politics, like football seems to be treated as a religion by many, meaning that emotion rather than logic rules us on these subjects.
As all of us learned before we came out of grade school, life is not fair, I can’t imagine why we keep expecting that that to change, when it never has in the past.
They have every right to post any sign they want. I am not a supporter of Mitt Romney but i wouldnt stop shopping somewhere because they did. That being said, some of these issues, expecially this one, runs very very deep for people. Though i 100% support gay marriage, i would not condemn your business for not agreeing with me. I do, however, think it was an extremely poor business decision based on the climate of this referendum.
I believe they have the right to put up the sign, but I also believe people who disagree with the sign have the right to take their business elsewhere…..its called freedom of speech!
Even though I don’t feel the same as they do, I still take the wife and kids to the corn maze every year. They, and we, all have a right to post these signs. I think, but it has been so long, that that is written somewhere…..
It is sad that we live in a day where a company or an individual can’t put up a sign without being called bigoted, hateful, or a host of other slurs. The homosexual agenda has become the new form of McCarthyism, attempting to silence and outcast anyone who disagrees them. Now I call on anyone who believes in freedom of speech whether you believe in redefining marriage or not to stop this madness. Let people discuss their ideas freely and in a civilized manner without be called names.
If you have read any of the other comments here, it has been explained numerous times that no one has done anything to their freedom of speech. Its still working the way it is supposed to. You get to decide what you say and what you don’t say. And people are free to tell you if they like what you say or don’t. And they aren’t allowed to censor you…only you can choose to censor yourself…and thats what happened.
Let this be a lesson learned to all businesses….if you don’t want to risk backlash, negative press, or loss of business–stay politically neutral regardless of your stance. In the end Treworgy’s, was your need to post a sign proclaiming your feelings on this issue worth it? I agree, nobody should be afraid to voice their opinions, but unfortunately this is what can happen.
I agree that no one should be afraid to voice their opinions but they need to be able to accept the consquences of that too. When a business decides to publically declare it’s view on a very controversial subject matter it has to accept that some, especially those who feel strongly about the issue, will no longer go to that place of business. I won’t go to CFA for example because of their support of discrimination based on sexual-preferance. The same is true for this business. Why he didn’t think it would be a problem after all the publicity of CFA is beyond me.
i think they have right to have the sign up. but you gotta expect some flack by the people who don’t support it. i live near the farm and go there all the time in the summer for ice cream. I personally don’t agree with the vote no on question one. but it doesn’t bother me that they had the sign up. i will still go there. if that’s what they think is right more power to em. i personally wouldn’t put up a political sign of any kind in front of a business your always gonna have someone griping about it one way or the other. save the political signs for your personal residents.
No one has disagreed that they had a right to have the sign up. The business decided it wasn’t an issue that they felt strongly enough about to turn away business for, I suppose. Other businesses might have left the sign up regardless of the outcry, same as a business that might put a “yes on 1” sign up.
Either way, on an issue like this it’s not a good idea to put your politics on your storefront, for you’re going to alienate a % of your customers no matter which side of the issue you are on.
Pretty soon we will be in an America where we will have a slogan that states. Welcome to America where we are free unless you have a view that is different from us Secular folks. I have no problem when someone post signs saying Yes On 1 even though I don’t agree. It doesn’t mean I hate gay people if I don’t agree with your life style. It is like the owners stated in there facebook post this is a God thing. He is in control and I know you preach love but it is media that says Christians hate Gay people when infact we love everyone. Do I believe Yes on 1 will pass I do and will it change how I believe no I will always treat everyone I meet with Love. I am sad that the owners went through this but one thing I know for sure because I believe it in my heart God is in control and HE will provide for them. Just my thoughts and I honestly hope I didn’t offend anyone.
You forgot to quote the long religious rhetoric, which comprised most of the statement Treworgy posted in response to comments from disappointed consumers. Their post explains that only a man and a woman capable of creating a third are worthy of marriage. Why didn’t you print that?
Don’t redefine marriage?? Marriage has been redefined several times. Thankfully, a man’s wife is no longer his property, like his house, car, or livestock! Wow, come out of your ignorant coma and step into the present.
Yes you are so right it has been defined over the years . The fact is, there is perhaps no institution in our culture that has been more “redefined” or interpreted than what we call “marriage.”
Coontz discusses many of the ways marriage has been adjusted to changing social norms and values in order to survive to be what we think it is today.
Marriage in the old days was not based on love, sexual attraction or equality between husbands and wives. It was about setting political alliances and business deals, combining family wealth and power, and assuring the rights of male children to inherit property.
Marrying for love was a Victorian notion and, almost immediately, ended family-arranged marriages. For most of history, however, marriage was not between loving, bread-winning husbands and stay-at-home moms but an institution devoted to protect wealth, power and property.
Also.. I didn’t read any comments “calling for boycotts”. Several hundred people posted comments letting them know that they would no longer patronize the business.
That’s unfortunate… They should have the same rights to express their opinion…just as some of the those who did post some nasty comments on FB.
I would have left it up in spite of the few who would “boycott”….
They do… and they did.
And everyone else has the right to react to, and use free speech to express their aversion to, their sign (speech).
Textbook case of free speech on both sides.
Reading some of the comments on here, it’s clear that the public school system needs an overhaul because a lot of people clearly do not understand basic concepts such as free speech.
If you ran the orchard, you would be free to do just that (leave the sign up). Just as they were free to put it up, and free to decide to take it down.
I would like to present a few thoughts on this subject. This is in response to Jotoh, and many
others who may take his position.
First of all you have presented your arguments for
redefining off of racial discrimination, not sexual preference.
People of ethnicity did not choose to be of a specific color
or heritage, while people of the same sex choose to be sexually involved with
the same gender.
Your argument is weak at best.
No one is saying that people cannot be sexually involved
with the same sex, what we are saying is that Marriage is between a man and a
woman, and furthermore should not be redefined.
Whether people of the opposite opinion disagree with that or
not is not the point, it’s the fact that people for same sex marriage think
that only their voice should be heard, and the Christian perspective should be
silenced.
Imagine a Christian coming to your place of residence and
making you pull a sign from your home? What do you think would happen?
I think we all know what kind rhetoric would come from the
opposite side if that scenario were to take place, so let’s not even argue
that!
So let’s look at some facts. Fact number one…we the people
of Maine have already rejected this change in our Maine constitution in more
than one election.
Two: the fact that a gay couple came to a place of business
and put up a stink about their beliefs, and in turn made them take down their
sign was in-fact a violation of their free speech, and honestly harassment.
Three: this would not have been tolerated if a Christian
person was to do the same thing to a person who was a homosexual, and in-fact would
be charged with harassment and most likely violating a person’s right to free
speech. I would call the ACLU but they don’t help God fearing Christians who believe
in Jesus and their Country.
Four: Why is it that it’s not intolerance when the liberal
agenda is being pushed, but a violation of free speech and intolerance when it
is a Christians’? I think more than a little one sided.
This country was founded upon Biblical beliefs. Whether you
choose not to believe this or not, we are the last nation on this earth that is
truly a sovereign nation, and that is not because of liberal agendas and
socialistic perspectives. It is those philosophies that are destroying the
foundation of our Great Nation.
We are One Nation Under God, though the liberal agenda’s has
taken the path to take God out of our schools and replace it with evolution.
They have taken God out of the courts, and that’s why
criminals have more power and freedom than those they commit crimes
against. They took the Pledge of
Allegiance out of school and replaced it with a pledge to Obama, and if you
want I will post the link for you.
You have the right to vote, and live however you want to
live, but marriage my friend is for one man and one woman.
I find it
ridicules that two gay men want to get married and have a child, and yet the
human anatomy doesn’t permit them two so they need a man and a woman to produce
a child for them so they can adopt him/her.
Whether you want to admit it or not…you are wrong, gay
marriage is wrong, abortion and killing unborn babies is wrong, socialism is
wrong, a welfare state is wrong, taking God out of our schools, judicial
system, and government is wrong, and destroying our Constitution is wrong.
Did I miss anything?
Wow, just wow…
1. Marriage is a right. You don’t get to take away someone’s rights because of your religious dogma.
2. America is NOT a “christian nation”. Don’t believe me? Look up the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously passed by Congress in 1797. It states that “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”
Whetehr you want to admit it or not…you are wrong. Marriage is a right that you don’t get to take away. America is not a christian nation and the only group trying to destroy the Constitution is the religious right, which, coincidentally, is neither.
First of all you have responded to my opinion, and yet
without much data to back up your rebuttal.
“I must own I have so much faith
in the general government of the world by Providence that I can hardly conceive
a transaction of such momentous importance to the welfare of millions now
existing, and to exist in the posterity of a great nation, should be suffered
to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided, and governed by that
Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Beneficent Ruler.”
— Benjamin Franklin On the impact of Independence on generations of Americans
during the Constitutional Convention
George Washington said:
“It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence
of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly
to implore His protection and favor.”
– George Washington
The rights of the colonists as Christians…may be best
understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law
Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written
and promulgated in the New Testament.
– Samuel Adams
“The United States in Congress assembled … recommend this
edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States … a neat edition
of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools.”
– United States Congress 1782
“In God We Trust”
– United States Congress 1864
The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of
human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
– John Adams
Providence has given to our people the choice of their
rulers, and it is their duty – as well as privilege and interest – of our
Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
– John Jay First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
So here just a few examples that completely
shut down your stance about our Nation, the principles on which is was founded,
and from that you can see where it is going because of perspectives like yours.
I can tell that you have never
done any reading, let alone any history or research about the Foundation of
America, and it is evident that you only go off what you think you, rather than
what absolute truth.
So in response to your wow, wow,
wow…How, how, how can a person respond to such a hot topic with so little knowledge
of the facts.
As for marriage being a right…it is! Between a Man and Woman only.
Do your history research first before posting comments about the principles that our Nation was founded upon before commenting. How do you think you look like to everyone on the BDN? Not very intelligent so say the lest.
Wow again, those are a lot of quotes. Unfortunately for you, that does nothing to counter the FACT that there is a federal document, passed by congress and signed by President Adams, a founding father, that states America is not a christian nation. All you have given me are quotes that provide insight into the personal religious beliefs of some historical figures, nothing more. In fact, some of your quotes are either misleading or innacurate. For example Ben Franklin wasn’t a Christian. How do I know this? Well, how about this quote “I have found Christian dogma unintelligible.” – Toward the Mystery For another example, your quote from John Adams is factually incorrect. John Adams never said that. How do I know this? Because that is his SON’s quote.
“As for marriage being a right…it is! Between a Man and Woman only.” – That’s not how rights work. Your religious dogma doesn’t dictate the rights of citizens.
So overall, your rambling post is completely worthless. Until you can provide a legal document that counters the Treati of Tripoli, then the fact still stands that Congress approved a document that stated America is not a christian nation. Deal with it.
“Do your history research first before posting comments about the principles that our Nation was founded upon before commenting. How do you think you look like to everyone on the BDN? Not very intelligent so say the lest.” – Funny, I could say the same for you. Oh, and by the way, if you are going to insult my intellegence, if might help if you could spell “least” properly. So, go ahead, continue living in your fantasy world. Meanwhile, the rest of us living in a place I like to call “reality” will continue fighting for equal rights.
Rubbish.
I’m so happy people like you are becoming insignificant… and it will be very much fun to taste your sweet, sweet angst when the courts resolve this once and for all, and not in your favor.
So far, you’ve posted not one single fact under our civil law.
yes, you missed the part about how none of your religious opinions matter because we are not a nation with a religion and are actually supposed to protect people from a government forced religion.
Actually the government has a religion, it’s called secular humanism, evolution, atheism, and the Christian principles that we were founded on are being thrown out. Oh the world has a religion friend…think about it.
Treati of Tripoli 1797 “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” Until you provide a legal document that overrid this legal document, you are factually incorrect. Also, if atheism is a religion, then off is a t.v. channel.
You keep coming back to the Treaty of Tripoli. By the way use spell check friend it only adds to your inability to pay attention to detail in regards to facts. I think I did produce several facts about the intention and foundation of our nation.
But here we go:
Proclamation by John Adams to the Nation.
I do hereby recommend accordingly, that
Thursday, the 25th day of April next, be observed throughout the United States
of America as a day of solemn humiliation, fasting, and prayer; that the
citizens on that day abstain as far as may be from their secular occupations,
devote the time to the sacred duties of
religion in public and in private; that they call to mind our
numerous offenses against the Most High God, confess them before Him with the
sincerest penitence, implore His pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past
transgressions, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit
we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience to His
righteous requisitions in time to come…and that he would extend the blessings
of knowledge, of true liberty, and of pure
and undefiled religion throughout the world (Adams, 1799, emp.
added).
Such admonitions concerning Christ, the
Holy Spirit, and the Christian religion (i.e., Adams’ allusion to James 1:27) did not come from an irreligious man
who rejected any connection between Christianity and the nation.
The Treaty of
Tripoli:
There
were several treaties made with the Muslim Barbary Countries over the course of
the Barbary Wars. The treaty they are referencing was made in 1797.
A second minor point is that Washington never approved the treaty. In
fact, he never saw it. It did not arrive in America until several months
after Washington left office. No secure email back then. But none
of this gets to the crux of the issue…it just reduces the credibility of crs5012723, an apparent non-researcher.
The real issue is the statement itself. The above-mentioned
line was indeed in the treaty of 1797, but as you can imagine, that was not the
only line. Here is the surrounding text of article XI of that treaty:
“As the
government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity [hatred] against
the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States
[America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any
Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing
between the two countries.”
The second half (or rather 4/5ths) of the statement is
pretty important. “Is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion”
is qualified with what that means in this instance.
The Americans knew
the history of the wars between Muslims and Christians in Europe. Wars
fought over religion. This statement in its entirety was expressing to
these Muslim nations that America’s Christianity was different than that of
Europe. We had no intention of fighting a war solely based upon religion
(although neither was Europe but not from the point of view of the
Muslims). It is also important to know that these Barbary countries were
also fighting England, France, Spain, and Denmark during this time (because
they were Christian…see a pattern). Our diplomats wanted to distinguish
the US and these counties in an effort to protect our merchant ships because at
the time we did not have the naval power to protect them. The results
were treaties such as this one and protection payments (jizya tax) among other
things. Those that have studied Islam know that the jizya tax is a tax
imposed upon nonbelievers in order to allow them to live in dhimma
status. According to Islam, it was convert, pay the tax and live in
dhimma status, or die.
These nations were following this precedent set by
Muhammad. I guess if you want to get technical, you can say that Muslims
threw the first stone…so much for that America got what it deserved
argument…but that is a whole other conversation.
The bottom line is that when you read the entire
article in context it shows that the intention of the line was not to say that
the nation was not founded upon Christian principles. I think any honest
historian would be compelled to agree with this stance, even if they have a
personal disdain for Christianity. But as further confirmation, I think
it is good to look at the man who actually did sign the treaty, John Adams.
Here are a few quotes from John Adams that add credibility to the argument.
“Human government
is more or less perfect as it approaches nearer or diverges farther from the
imitation of this perfect plan of divine and moral government.”
“We have no government
armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by
morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break
the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our
Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly
inadequate to the government of any other.”
“Statesmen by
dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality
alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand
. . . . The only foundation of a free Constitution, is pure Virtue, and if this
cannot be inspired into our People, in a great Measure, than they have it now,
they may change their Rulers, and the forms of Government, but they will not
obtain a lasting Liberty.”
“The general
principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general
principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now
believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and
immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of
liberty are as unalterable as human nature.”
These comments are indicative of not only John Adams
view of government, but also most of the other founding fathers. They
contradict the revisionist argument and support the full reading in context.
Since he obviously believed that Christianity had a significant role in the
formation of our government, it does not make sense for critics to interpret
the wording of the treaty in the way they have.
Of course, the founders were not the only ones that
came to the realization that the newly formed United States was indeed a
Christian nation.
What now crs5012723…did I educate you at least a little?
Not at all. None of what you posted chages the fact that a legal document passed by congress states that America was not founded on the Christian religion. How many times do I have to say it? But go on, continue ignoring reality. If you want to live in a country governed by religion, I hear Iran is quite nice this time of year.
P.S. Who are you copy pasting from? It sounds like someone left a reply to a question you asked them.
You’re exposing how little you know about these terms you throw about when you equate them with religion.
RAmen!
Don’t talk about large piles of spaghetti. I’m starting to get hungry.
Do not fight your urge. Feast upon his noodliness and accept FSM into you!
Oh how I wish he’d touch me softly with his noodly appendage.
But that’s just it! He touches ALL of us with his noodly appendage, always! He is constantly pushing us, literally! RAmen
RAmen to that. Cheers!
May you be Blessed by His Noodly Appendage!!!
RAmen brother!
Adam, you missed nothing. Thank you for taking the time to write this- it’s fantastic!
Thanks yesihaveanopinion…Grace and Peace.
TLDR:
As long as your CHOICE of religion receives special rights, hotshot, you’re nothing more than a major, slobbering hypocrite.
And you’re SO freaking far off base that you come across as stupid. I do not want a child… I can get that already. Claiming marriage is required for that is ridiculous.
Keep your god out of our governance. If we’d have wanted it that way, we’d have spelled out your magic sky daddy and his gay son in our constitution.
Tedllick huh…can I call you Ted?
Here is my response:
TLDR:
As long as your CHOICE
of religion receives special rights, hotshot, you’re nothing more than a major,
slobbering hypocrite.
Whether you want to admit it
or not you’re in a religion. It’s called Secular Humanism, and Atheism. There
are some problems there. First of all Atheism requires you to have a complete
knowledge of everything that was, is, and yet to come. None of which you have,
so it leads me into this comment, “whose the one who is actually stupid, me for
believing in a Creator, which there is more evidence for that than you theory,
or you the all unknowing, creator of non-sense”. Secular Humanism is not much
different; it just put’s mankind into a god state. Secular Humanism embraces human
reason, ethics, social justice and philosophical
naturalism, whilst specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis
of morality and decision
making. Take a look at the history of man kind pal and current events and you
will see how wrong you really are!
And you’re SO freaking far off base that you come across as
stupid. I do not want a child… I can get that already. Claiming marriage is
required for that is ridiculous.
What I was referring to
homosexuals cannot reproduce with another man and will need the help of a woman
in-order to have a child if they wanted one. Marriage is not a requirement by
man’s laws to have a child, but it is a requirement of God. Take it up with him
He designed the human body, and the institution of marriage not me.
Keep your god out of our governance. If we’d have wanted it
that way, we’d have spelled out your magic sky daddy and his gay son in our
constitution.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You gotta repent from that one pal. Jesus is not gay, nor is He a magic sky
daddy. He is more powerful loving than what you could ever imagine. Secondly in
regards to our Nations History you may want to do several things:
1:
Research American History from a non-liberal and progressive perspective.
2:
Read my other posts.
3:
Before you start throwing out comments like the one’s you just posted remember
that eternity is always around the corner for every human being and you will be
in one of two places; in hell, or in heaven. Jesus will never force you to love
Him, though your choice is your choice just know when death comes for you….and
it does for us all, it’s forever. Think about it.
“It’s called Secular Humanism, and Atheism. ” – Is “off” a t.v. channel?
“First of all Atheism requires you to have a completeknowledge of everything that was, is, and yet to come. ” – Spoken like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. The only thing aheists have in common is that they do not believe in “god”
“Jesus is not gay” – Jesus was never married and traveled around with 12 other guys. I’m gay, and that’s a little too gay for me.
“Research American History from a non-liberal and progressive perspective” – I did. Primary sources state “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”.
If “god” is the way you describe him, then I would welcome hell. Sounds much better than spending eternity with a buch of stuck up bigots.
I am an atheist.
I know many atheists.
We rarely agree on anything.
Except that there is no such thing as god.
And that we like pizza. :-)
Fantastic
we have a debate!
“It’s called Secular Humanism, and Atheism.
” – Is “off” a t.v. channel?
“First of all Atheism requires you to have a
complete knowledge of everything that was, is, and yet to come. ” – Spoken
like someone who has no idea what they are talking about. The only thing
atheists have in common is that they do not believe in “god”
Well doesn’t’ Atheism mean that you know beyond a
shadow of a doubt that there is no God, and that’s why you don’t believe in
God. What proof do you have that there is no God and how do you know?
“Jesus is not gay” – Jesus was never
married and traveled around with 12 other guys. I’m gay, and that’s a
little too gay for me.
Jesus is not gay and to say so is blasphemous.
Research American History from a non-liberal and
progressive perspective” – I did. Primary sources state “As the
Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the
Christian religion”.
You did not research hard nor long enough friend.
Are you kidding me… ten minutes of research does not mean that you have the
answer and that you are right. You need to really read more about the bio’s and the
lives of the men that forged our country and the constitution.
If “god” is the way you describe him,
then I would welcome hell. Sounds much better than spending eternity with
a bunch of stuck up bigots.
Dude did you just say that you would rather spend
eternity in hell burning then to be in heaven with God? OK bro I have to call
you out on that one. I am not a bigot nor stuck up man, and neither is God.
He
loves you and I more than you may may ever know. He has called us to a life of virtue and not of self-indulgence. Heaven friend is far greater and more amazing than you could
ever imagine, and hell is so freighting that I don’t even want to think about
it.
Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen an exorcism or a true haunting? If
you have why do you think they command the evil spirit in the name of Jesus and
not the in name of Atheism to come out?
Why do you think that the Holy Word of
God is used in these situations and not the Qu’ran or any other holy book.
Because
that stuff is real bro, and so is Jesus and what He did for us. I would ask you
to really think about that last statement man because you never know when your
time is up…and eternity is a long time.
“Well doesn’t’ Atheism mean that you know beyond ashadow of a doubt that there is no God, and that’s why you don’t believe inGod. What proof do you have that there is no God and how do you know?’ – You are the one claiming that god exists, therefore the burden of proof lies on you. Until that burden is met, atheists have no reason to believe in a “god”.
“Jesus is not gay and to say so is blasphemous.” – First of all, proof? Second of all, I don’t care if it is blasphemous, it’s free speech.
“You need to really read more about the bio’s and thelives of the men that forged our country and the constitution.” – Doesn’t matter. Until you provide a legal document that states otherwise, then it stands that America is not a christian nation.
“Dude did you just say that you would rather spendeternity in hell burning then to be in heaven with God? OK bro I have to callyou out on that one.” – First of all, I’m not your “bro”, random internet person. Judging from you posts, you are the last person I would ever want to consider a “friend”. Second of all, yes, if you are right about god, which I highly doubt, then I absolutely would rather go to hell. I refuse to worship any “god” that would tell me that the love I feel for my boyfriend is any less than a heterosexual couple.
“Heloves you and I more than you may may ever know. ” – Well, according to plenty of christians, you’re wrong. I’m gay, so “god” apparantly hates me, which I find strange, considering he or she made me gay, if he or she even exists.
“Have you ever seen an exorcism or a true haunting?” – No, because they don’t exist.
“Ifyou have why do you think they command the evil spirit in the name of Jesus andnot the in name of Atheism to come out? ” – That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
“that stuff is real bro, and so is Jesus and what He did for us. I would ask youto really think about that last statement man because you never know when yourtime is up…and eternity is a long time.” – Once again, I am not your bro. Are you trying to sound “young” and “hip”? Because if so, you are failing miserably. I refuse to worship a being that puts an infinate punishment for finite transgressions. I refuse to worship a being that has the ability to end suffering yet chooses not to. I refuse to worship a being that tells me the love I feel for my boyfriend is somehow “wrong”. If “god” is what you say he or she is, then your god is a jerk. I say, bring it on. Smite me in all of my gayness.
“real bro”?
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Oh… my… that’s good.
However, you’re welcome to believe any religion you wish. Just remember that it is not US civil law.
Not now… not ever.
All irreverent.
We live under civil law in a representative republic. Not some theocratic wet dream of your imagination.
Procreation is not a requirement for marriage .. marriage is not a requirement for procreation. And it’s awful that you’d insult all the families in America that result from adoption. Awful sad and sick.
Your god is your choice… nothing more. Keep it. Many of us don’t want it. You can find it nowhere in our governing documents. That challenge is always met with defeat by fundies like you.
Your angst will be very very sweet… I’m sure the loss of sodomy laws and DADT also filled you with angst. Wish I’d been around to taste that angst.
Not going to lie, your last two sentences reminded me of a South Park episode. I don’t know if that is a good or a bad thing.
As was the intent!
Nice catch.
Haha, I thought it sounded familiar.
None of you have intelligently answered anything! As for insulting families in America let’s look at the stat’s of married homes with kids, versus single parent and out of wedlock homes.
Then let’s look at the homosexual homes with kids versus them all and see which one is more effective for raising a child?
Which one do you think is more productive Tedlick? In-regards to my angst being sweet and you being around to taste it…well that’s just weird especially with the word sodomy within that sentence.
None of you as of yet have been able to defend your position but only offer up personal opinion and convoluted facts with no foundation.
“None of you have intelligently answered anything!” – Because you haven’t presented anything intelligent to answer.
“Then let’s look at the homosexual homes with kids versus them all and see which one is more effective for raising a child? ” – Researchers have, there’s no difference.
“None of you as of yet have been able to defend your position but only offer up personal opinion and convoluted facts with no foundation.” – That’s funny, I could say the same for you, minus the “facts” part. You haven’t provided any of those.
No one is insulting families.
Gay folks are already adopting children, so no matter how angry it makes you, it’s already law of the land. Sorry.
Considering how many children live in single parent homes today, the fact that you’re not outraged at divorce nullifies the rest of your arguments about children raised by gay parents.
The position is defended under civil law. Your mythology won’t change that.
You sound like the guys who battled prop 8… very strong in opinion and “faith” very shallow on legal substance.
You’re a powerful ally.
Not sure what foundation I need other than US civil law and our constitution. The 14th defends my point of view. What defends yours?
He’s probably going to say the bible. He tried with me. He even called me “bro”. I felt so violated…
Fine by me. As long as that’s all they have, they have nothing.
It makes me very very happy to see this hangup on religious arguments.
It insures their ultimate loss.
Things you missed:
Sexual orientation is not a choice; I am not saying it is genetic, but I am agreeing with the majority of research that has been done that shows we do not make a conscious decision as to our sexual orientation. Regardless, who you marry is always a choice, and same-sex couples are currently denied the ability to enter into civil marriage with their partners.
You claim that everyone who supports same-sex marriage is against anyone voicing disagreement, which is completely untrue. I am always willing to debate this issue with folks— and I treat people as they treat me. If someone is dismissive and cruel in their comments, I can be sarcastic in return… but if someone has a desire for an honest discussion, that is what I give them.
You claim that this business was “made to take down their sign” which is also completely untrue— no one could make them do that, they chose to take down the sign (and by some reports, they actually have not taken the sign down at all). They have First Amendment protections for freedom of speech and a political sign is absolutely protected speech. Those who were offended by the sign also had First Amendment rights to voice their response to the sign— no one vandalized the sign or took it down for them.
You can pretend this is all one-sided if you want, but that goes against our experience with this issue over the last few years— there are many groups who have been organizing boycotts of companies that voice support for marriage equality! And this didn’t even rise to be an organized boycott— this was simply some customers expressing their reaction to the sign via the facebook page, they were not calling for a boycott, they were just saying they would not do business there because of the sign.
You can find it ridiculous all you want, but I have been building a life together with my soul mate for two decades now, and we very much want to protect our life with civil marriage. There are well over 1,100 benefits and privileges that are extended by our government contingent on marital status.
Marriage is not all about having children, though even that makes a good case for same-sex marriage— there are families across Maine raising children, and those children also deserve the protections that civil marriage provides for those families.
Civil marriage rights for gays and lesbians is the morally right thing to do, it abides by our US Constitution’s demands of equal protection under the law, and it helps promote stability and monogamy in our society.
So what your saying is that there’s research stating that being gay is genetic? Yeah…um no such thing as the gay gene convivalvisits.
People will try to make the case of the gay gene in order to make themselves feel better about their sin.
Being gay is a choice like doing drugs is a choice, just like lying is a choice. People choose to engage in these activities based upon their desires for sinful pleasure and nothing more than that.
As for them taking their sign down…look at how much media coverage this spawned. They may not have been told to but in a round about way they were so let’s just read between the lines and call it what it is.
You didn’t read very closely, did you? I said I was not claiming it was genetic. I am stating that it is not something we choose. There are many traits that develop outside of genetics that are unconscious/innate characteristics, and sexual orientation is one of them.
Even the “pray the gay away” groups now admit that you cannot change being gay.
But your choice argument misses the point that this is about treating Mainers equally under our laws. We do not discriminate against people for their choice of religious views, we should not discriminate against their choice to form a same-sex marriage with their soul mate.
You act as though the media coverage was all one-sided, but we can see the truth is nothing like that— there is even an editorial today defending their point of view in this. I don’t recall Chick-fil-A backing down from their stance when they faced criticism for their views, and besides I don’t think they have actually taken the sign down at all— there are reports that it is still up.
Unfortunately, to people like adam jewell, those “facts” don’t matter…
So Adam do you remember the day you chose to be straight? I don’t, not at all. I simply remember that there was something about girls that attracted me to them. It’s not a choice and frankly it’s absurd to suggest that it is. No one in their right minds would choose to be hated, spat on, disowned, beaten, discriminated against, killed. That is what “choosing” to be gay can result in. You really think people choose this? Sin? Now I know you’re joking.
As for the sign you seem to feel it’s ok for them to express their opinions but not for anyone else.
So if homosexuality is a “sexual preference”, when did you realized heterosexuality was you “sexual preference”?
Did you “experiment” sexually prior to deciding that your “sexual preference” was heterosexuality?
If you didn’t how do you decide that your “sexual preference” was a person of the opposite sex?
I totally support everyone’s right to free speech and it’s absolutely fine for them to do this… However, I personally think it was a bad business decision. Posting a sign on your front lawn – house or business (when it’s such a small business) – about any controversial topic will absolutely result in a negative response of some kind from those who disagree – typically it’s a boycott. The exact same thing happened to Chick-fil-A but it worked out for them. They are a big business. They knew there would be a backlash and they were completely prepared to handle that backlash if and when it happened. But, the question then becomes, can the same be said of a small business like Treworgy? Only they know the answer to this… and I would surmise based upon their decision to put the sign up it appears they were willing to risk opposition/boycott from some of their customer base. That’s just a basic business fact… if you take a public political stance on a controversial topic you have to be prepared for a reaction from consumers who disagree with you.
I’m having a problem tolerating what I view as intolerance. I’m thinking about spewing some rhetoric about how telling people how to live is offensive and how we need to tolerate other peoples life choices. Of course, I also realized that if I can’t tolerate something I view as intolerance, I really shouldn’t be trying to give people lessons in tolerance because I know nothing of it.
And such it goes. Oh, how you people amuse me so.
Just because you tolerate something doesn’t mean you have to like it, kids.
It’s true that the government can’t tell you who to love. But they can tell you how! Take for example Necrophilia: They can get you for diggin’ em up, but they can’t get you for lovin’ em up.