BANGOR, Maine — Saying he is “ashamed” of the Boy Scouts of America’s recent reaffirmation of a policy that bans gay Scouts and leaders from its ranks, an optometrist who is a Maine Eagle Scout and former Cub Scout pack master has returned his Scouting medals and awards.
Dr. Mark Varnum, who operates optometry offices in Bangor and Oakland, sent a letter Monday to the Boy Scouts of America’s national executive board decrying the group’s mid-July decision to uphold its policy after a two-year review. Enclosed were his Eagle Scout medal, which he earned as a 16-year-old in Presque Isle, Bronze Palm award, which is granted when a Scout attains merit badges after attaining the rank of Eagle Scout, and two advancement medals.
Other Eagle Scouts scattered across the nation have made the same move.
“Scouting, by its very nature, is meant to encourage character building and to teach leadership,” Varnum said in an interview Monday afternoon. “In my opinion, you can’t be a leader and you can’t teach character if you’re going to discriminate against other people.”
Varnum also is a member of the Brotherhood of the Order of the Arrow, an honor society for the Scouts.
The Boy Scouts of America, a national organization headquartered in Texas, cited widespread support of the ban from parents and members of the organization as the basis for its decision. The policy was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000, but it has continued to draw the ire of gay-rights activists and some past and present members of the organization.
“Scouting represents millions of youth and adult members in diverse communities across the nation, each with a variety of beliefs,” said Deron Smith, director of public relations for the Scouts. “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society.”
Since its policy announcement on July 17, the Boy Scouts of America has received “a few” returned medals, according to Smith. With more than 50,000 men having attained the Eagle Scout rank, people have returned medals before this decision was made for a variety of reasons, Smith said.
Varnum said he couldn’t continue to be associated with an organization that would exclude members because of their sexual orientation.
“As an Eagle Scout, I can’t stand by and watch an organization that I care about act in a manner that is discriminatory,” Varnum said. “You’re taught in Boy Scouts to be on the side of those that are being bullied, not be on the side of the bully.”
Varnum’s father, Norman Varnum, also was an Eagle Scout and started Troop 168 in Presque Isle. Mark Varnum said his father would have stood strongly against the Scouts’ decision if he were still alive.
“I have always been proud to associate myself with Scouting — now I am ashamed,” Varnum wrote in his letter to the Scouts. “If my father were still living, his Eagle medal would be enclosed with mine.”
Mark Varnum said his older brother, who also is an Eagle Scout, might return his medals as well.
Varnum argued that the Boy Scouts of America should reverse its decision and revoke its policy on exclusion of gay members.
“I’ve always been very proud to be associated with the Boy Scouts,” Varnum said Monday. “If they changed their policy to be more tolerant of other people and other people’s beliefs, … then I would certainly be very pleased to be affiliated with them again.”
Criticism from gay-rights groups, some Scout members and segments of the public hasn’t persuaded the Boy Scouts of America to reverse its policy.
“Although we are disappointed to learn of anyone who feels compelled to return his Eagle rank, we fully understand and appreciate that not everyone will agree with any one position or policy,” Smith said.
You are kidding me….when are we going to stop hating on one another. Remember, Bob Carlson supported and was revered by the boy scouts. He was not allegedly gay…yet he abused young boys and you gave him a big award before he jumped from the Penobscot Bridge. You need to stop the hate and look at who are the real abusers of young boys…..research shows it is heterosexual male men.
You hang off the word “hate ” as if was true. No one hates anybody but I will damned if you or anyone else is going to brow beat me into supporting gay marriage. I think it’s morally wrong and has no place in society. With that said, they already have all the rights that you and I do, except to get married and that should stand in November.
Seeing two men holding hands, well, it makes my stomach turn.
Seeing two men kiss makes my stomach turn, and makes me want to vomit.
Seeing two men be able to marry in the State of Maine, and love each other, and have the same rights as me and my wife do? That would make me proud.
Whether -I- agree with it or not doesn’t matter. It’s the morally right thing to do.
That’s your choice James. I have no objection to your opinion. My problem is with the hypocrisy of the boy scouts. They are just like the catholic church in their repeated sexual abuse cases. So I know you are set to correct the situation and protect children. Then the abuse is by heterosexual men. This is not a gay issue unless of course the men that perpetrate are heterosexual and leading a secret life with deviance.
Yes, I am set to correct the problem by voting no in november. We don’t need anymore sexual predators in the boy scouts than we have now. Weeding them out is our goal, not voting them in.
How does voting on SSM impact the BSA?
You do understand that there are more male heterosexuals sexually abusing children than gay men?
If you want to go find a sexual predator go to almost any Catholic Church worldwide.Your odds should be pretty good there.
So James, does that mean that we as a society cannot trust you, a big, strong heterosexual male to be around our young daughters because you will sexually abuse them? That is what you’re saying, isn’t it? We shouldn’t vote you in?
Who is talking about gay marriage? Not me. You have men who are married supporting the boy scouts who are abusing your male children and you have allowed it to happen time and time again.
And adults of either gender that sexually abuse any child (regardless of gender) are pedophiles.
Why can’t they understand that?
This issue is not about ‘gay’ marriage. Most pedophiles are heterosexual white males. Maybe you should spend your spare time tending to family, friends and neighbors instead of poking your nose into stranger’s personal business. You probably believe that homosexuals should be banned from teaching, the military and clergy as well. Sad! Go Doc! I’d return the medals too.
Why is so hard for people to learn the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia?
You need to pick up a dictionary and educate yourself. That is what’s called making an informed decision.
Agreed, but good luck with that! They don’t get it, and they are not going to get it. Don’t confuse them with facts.
Because Mainegal17, they love to hate!
You are a hater.
You have a lot more problems than SSM.
Reading for comprehension is one of them.
LOL
I -do- think they should be allowed to. They are a private organization which doesn’t accept taxpayer funding.
But I don’t agree with it. I don’t support them (financially), and I refuse to purchase from any of their fundraisers, or donate returnable to their drives.
The do recieve tax money. References showing that are in several posts here.
Many of those post are blogs and other comment boards. They do receive “indirect” support, i.e. use of public buildings without paying rent.
I did check several of Kevin’s links and tried to click through to the original articles and couldn’t. One of the links was referencing an article over a decade old.
http://wvgazette.com/Outdoors/Recreation/201207140024
Not a blog or comment board…a newspaper article about the Jamboree that is being planned for next year.
OK I read the article. I guess I am not seeing the issue with prep for an event on this size. Maybe it has something to do with spending time in public safety and understanding how things can go very wrong in a heartbeat. I would rather spend tax dollars prepping for an event like thus then trying to respond and manage on the fly.
The issue is that they are a private organization that discriminates against homosexuals and atheists, which they have every right to do, however they also receive governmental support, i.e – http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/commemoratives/?action=2010BoyScouts
Maybe you feel that is “indirect”, or too far in the past to count.
I haven’t seen those posts, and didn’t know that to be the case. If that’s true (I’m not saying it is or isn’t, I’m saying I don’t know), then that’s a different story. Taxpayer funded organizations should not be able to discriminate. IMHO, of course.
I’ve always been under the impression that the BSA was entirely self-funded?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/03/25/boy-scouts-get-federal-money-for-their-discrimination/
“If ‘the gays’?”
Wow, that says a lot.
Have you asked your boys what they thought of it? What would you do if one of them said, “Hey dad, this is wrong, and while we are at it, I am gay too” Wonder if he would have to quit the boyscouts? This is as bad as “Dont ask Dont tell” in the Military. Do any of you really think there arent already many gay kids in the BSA? Dont fool yourselves, cause there are.
Well said !
I would have to say that I agree with you the most. They are a private organization and even if their practice is distasteful and hypocritical, they have that freedom. Just as i will never purchase an item from Chik Fillet…..I will never again donate money or bottles and cans to the Boyscouts or any of their subsidiaries.
Your tax dollars are used to fund them.
Kevin the BSA receives zero tax dollars.
Yes, they do.
Source: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/03/25/boy-scouts-get-federal-money-for-their-discrimination/
Ben points out that a Boy Scout group in Alaska is about to get nearly $1,000,000 worth of federal funds from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Both HUD and White House websites have rules that say no grant-receiving group can discriminate against anyone who wants to use the service.
I wish the link to the original article was still active. I would like to have read the original article rather that the disjointed synopsis that the link provided.
Here is another link…
http://www.quora.com/U-S-Federal-Government/What-funding-does-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America-BSA-receive-from-American-taxpayers
The U.S. military hosts the Boy Scouts at Fort A.P. Hill every year in a big, expensive National Jamboree event, which serves in part as recruitment opportunity. Costs for preparing the base for the event, use of the space, etc is all taxpayer funded. The price tag for the Pentagon was close to $10 million from 1997 through 2001, to give a cost example.
And here is another more recent article:
Time to End Federal Support of Boy Scout Discrimination
http://militaryatheists.org/news/2012/07/time-to-end-federal-support-of-boy-scout-discrimination/
Throughout the history of the BSA, the quadrennially held National Jamboree was held at various locations throughout the Country, including Colorado, Idaho, Pennsylvania, and so forth. It was held at Fort AP Hill because the event is so huge, there are only so many places to host such a large gathering. The Boy Scouts paid for the Jamboree, costing on average about 3 thousand per Scout for the last Jambo. The Bechtel family of West Virgina donated land to create a permanent Jamboree site, and will hold them there eternally now.
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/bsa.html
How Your Tax Dollars Support the Boy Scouts of America
by Larry A. Taylor
Published in the Humanist, September/October 1995
It’s indirect mostly, but for example, they’ll receive free use of public land/property that generally does cost money to rent.
Sandusky
hey rebecca ever hear of the Gay cannibal serial murderer Jeffery Dahmer a lil worse then sandusky even though both will rot in hell for their crimes
Sandusky was a married heterosexual male that sexually preyed on males which makes him a pedophile.
He was a married homosexual male that sexually preyed upon males which makes him a pedophile.
He was a married heterosexual male that preyed on young boys which makes him a pedophile. Pedophilies are attracted by the age of the victim not the gender. And like rape it is a crime of power and control and not love and intimacy.
Let’s see if I can help you understand. Anyone, any person, man or woman, married or single,who preys on a child is a pedophile. Period. And take notice, also, that pedophiles usually target children of both sexes.
Homosexuals always prefer same sex relationships with adults. Get it? Key word-“adults.”
Okay, class, now let’s see if we can write it on our papers:
pedophiles-children
homosexuals-adults
Mainegal17 – Homeosexuals don’t ALWAYS prefer the same. And, if women just wanted women, why in the world would they even think of strapping on a fake male anatomy. I KNOW many of these people that proclaim they are gay but their life says something different.
It is still a woman and woman which is homosexual.
ugh…how much do you know about female anatomy? A lesbian isn’t attracted to men…it’s not necessarily about the male body parts. A woman gets sexual satisfaction in many different ways. Using “fake male anatomy” is one of the ways to get that satisfaction, but it’s certainly not the only way.
I can’t believe you are a real person.
Wha…? That’s SO off-topic!
Homosexuals-children. Yes it happens too.
Or bisexual and pedophile.
Nope pedophile. He was attracted to children and that is the attraction…age.
That is what I have been saying: Sandusky is a heterosexual male who is a pedophile. He identifies with both as his actions have shown. You keep saying he is just a pedophile. He has identified himself with both just like Bob Carlson. It is not as simplistic as you say.
There is a HUGE difference between GAY and PEDOPHILIA!
Don’t give back the kerchiefs! They are worth a small fortune.
Just sayin’.
Unreal, your so called heterosexuals are the same people who sexually abused your boy scouts like Jerry Sandusky. Also, Your honored Bob Carlson who abused boys and you gave him a big award. Are you afraid you may get caught or get your game on? You are the classic personality that would stoop to the level of abuse for your own pleasure.
If Jerry Sandusky was “really straight” he wouldn’t be abusing boys period.
Sandusky was a pedophile.
Pedophile yes, straight NO
also homosexual, no.
A pedophilia is attracted to the age of the victim…not the gender.
Or both.
Rape is crime of violence, it is not sex.
Granted he is a pedophile, but he also has a wife of many years who says she still loves him. Now having said that, it is the charade that is often projected while sleeping with their wives. So, Sandusky is more than a pedophile.
I would never assume Bob Carlson was heterosexual. Marriage is sometimes a facade in order for the person to appear heterosexual and be accepted in the community as a leader or spiritual counselor. Bob Carlson was a fake. He was a pedophile who continued a relationship with a boy even when he became a man. The only good thing that came out of the award he received from the Boy Scouts was that it prompted someone to expose Bob for what he was. It is because of the boy scouts policy that this was prompted. No boy should have to be exposed to a man with such evil intentions.
If same sex couples were allowed to marry no one would need to hide behind a “facade”. Not that I agree with what appears to be your premiss that pedophile equals gay. Pedophiles pray on children, that’s as complicated as it gets. Doesn’t matter what gender, sexuality or color they are.
These comment sections usually make my skin crawl. But at least this one highlights the gross misconceptions that exist all around us. I hope we’re all smart enough to learn from it.
How many gay men and women are out there that married in the 1960s and 1970s because they HAD to in an effort to prove that they were straight. I know 6 men and women who have since divorced with both the gay and straight spouses leading MUCH happier lives now that the charade is over.
Or Carlson was both a pedophile and heterosexual. He was married, remember?
well,, i’m an eagle scout as well. i stand behind the decision. those that don’t like it can just start another scout system. i believe the boy scouts are run by the senate, i may be wrong but i think i’m correct. why all the hate? i agree. there should not be any, i think most folks would just like to see the gay community just go about their business and stop ramming their wants and demands down our throat. we have voted already, and its back again! i remember when no meant no. what happened to that anyway?
…
wrong. The Gov passed it through. It went to the people who voted it out. We will do so again
ummmm,, it didn’t pass, or we would NOT be here again! it tried but failed. as it will again.
I would suggest you view the School House Rock episode on how bills become law in the U.S..
How about a Black Scouts of America while we’re being all discriminatory…
why all the hate? why ban gays? it’s ridiculous and sexual orientation is irrelevant.
Sexual orientation is irrelevant? You actually believe that?
When it comes to being a boy scout or being a leader — yes.
So the Girl Scouts of America that does not ban anyone based on sexual orientation has how many cases of sexual abuse of minors?
I don’t understand the point of your question.
Since many posters are claiming that the reason for banning gays from the BSA is to prevent sexual abuse of scouts, etc…then the Girl Scouts of America must have multiple examples of sexual abuse of scouts since they don’t ban membership based on sexual orientation, but they don’t.
Good point.
I agree with you. That’s why I said sexual orientation in this regard is irrelevant.
Are we all not human regardless of who we choose as a sexual partner?
It is definately NOT irrelevant, James. I can’t see how you believe that it is. This is the 21st century and it doesn’t matter if you are black, white, Asian, native american, muslim, GAY or straight!! All that matters is a persons morals and actions and how they act within society. A person should never be judged on their sexual orientation.
It’s too late dude, boy scouts voted to allow gays last week. Right or wrong, it is how it stands now.
Hey someone did start a new scouting group.
Check out http://www.navigatorsusa.org and say NO to bigotry and discrimination!
Oh, and praise to the Girl Scouts of America who have never taken the low path that the BSA took (down discrimination lane).
This has nothing to do with the gay community ‘ramming their wants and demands down our throat”. It is about equality among all Americans – better yet, all humans! Being homosexual isn’t about sex – it’s about being with someone that you love and appreciate just as heterosexuals do. Shame on you and the entire BSA that voted on this. My two boys were in Boy Scouts until this was brought to light. I can’t support anyone or any group that denies equal rights to their membership entry!!
Cross me off the list of someone to do business with.
Your choice, of course, but if you patronize only businesses run by heterosexuals, how do you propose to know their sexual proclivity in advance?
lmao!!!!!!!
wow i cant believe how much of a case you are. whos forcing you to do anything… theyre (the gay guys) asking for you to leave them alone. Thats it. No ones kickn down your door.
What a bunch of bull. Remember Bob Carlson, one of yours? Let the abuse continue in denial. If I were you, I would not be concerned whether gays or allowed or not. Get your head out of the sand. OMG.
One of yours? Carlson was a pedophile first then continued the relationship after the person was of age, this would be two male adults having a relationship, this is certainly not heterosexual, he maintained the relationship with his wife thruout so bisexual pedophile perhaps. These abusers certainly do gravitate towards these types of groups I agree.
It has been noted on this paper, BDN, that Carlson had abused the person as a child. Apparently it went into adulthood, it is still male sexual abuse of a child that went on for years by an alleged heterosexual so called Rev. Carlson. What happens is people get trapped by the manipulation and support. It was never wanted by the child he abused.
isnt hetero more like a man and a female not a man and male child i think that would be a Gay pedophile by definition right
Ya but these guys pretend they are heterosexual. Ask Bob Carlson’s wife, she probably had no idea until the he jumped.
so he was a closet gay man right someone who hid behind a seemingly hetero way of life to be found out and so ashamed he ended his life. So in reality he was a Gay man living as a hetero but found the urge to great to be gay and was discovered and ended the charade as a Gay man
Careful you don’t want to use too much logic, we might lose our civility!
When a male teacher sexually abuses a female student are they a pedophile or a heterosexual male engaging in a heterosexual relationship?
When a female teacher sexually abuses a male student are they a
pedophile or a heterosexual female engaging in a heterosexual
relationship?
When a male teacher sexually abuses a male student are they a
pedophile or a homosexual male engaging in a homosexual
relationship?
When a female teacher sexually abuses a female student are they a
pedophile or a lesbian engaging in a lesbian relationship?
Careful jd2008jd. You are asking some questions that potentially could fry the brains of some of the people leaving comments on this site. Thanks!
All of your questions have the same answer.
It depends on the age of the student.
However, I have to say I have not heard of a pedophile who abuses both genders. (I’m sure some exist if you do a search so don’t waste your time looking for examples.) So I feel which gender a pedophile abuses tells us pretty much if they are hetersexual or homosexual at their core.
A pedophile is attracted to the age of the victim not the gender. And like rape it is about power and control over the victim and not love or intimacy.
Basically they are all crapola.
I think the simple and direct answer here is that there are pedophiles who are gay and pedophiles who are straight. Neither one is any better than the other. I don’t think someone is more inclined to be a pedophile just because they are gay; sexual orientation is irrelevant. If they sexually abuse children, they need to be brought to justice regardless of how they conduct their adult sex lives.
Twist the words anyway you want, he was a selfish man who took children’s soul.
exactly
assume nothing about Bob Carlson. That is how this community became so trusing of this man, by assuming.
It was not about assuming, Carlson manipulated the community to think what he wanted you to think and was darn good at from what we have seen. Pedophiles are master manipulators. They manipulate the child, parents and community.
Like Dottie Sandusky after nearly half a century of marriage?
Carlson lived as a heterosexual male. He was married. He engaged in a sexual relationship with a minor child which by definition is a pedophile….not a heterosexual pedophile….not a homosexual pedophile….not a bisexual pedophile….just a pedophile.
you really did not know Bob Carlson, jd. you have no idea about his relationship with his wife. Hopefully it will all come out someday.
So you knew Carlson then not? How well did you know him? It seems from your post that you are saying that you knew he wasn’t living as a heterosexual male and that you knew more about his “dark side” then most of us did. Is that the case?
Did you know he was a pedophile not? What exactly are you saying about your knowledge of Carlson’s “dark side”?
I am in the market for an optometrist! Proud to see a human standing for human rights.
hey i will give you my slot if he is not accepting new patients
If your choose your optometrist based on his personal opinions about a subject, then there is something wrong with you.
Everybody has a choice in where they spend their money and time.You can choose to go to another practice as others here have said they will do.My money’s on the doc.
Here is the problem. As Americans, we are always hating some group and we never seem to evolve out of it. Native Americans, Italians, Irish, blacks, women, Jews, Muslim….the list really is never ending. 25 years from now, homosexuality will be a non-issue and we’ll be on to hating someone else. You may as well realize it now.
“If the gays want to start their own branch of the scouts..”
This guy is living in the days of “Blacks Only” water fountains. I hope someday he comes to his senses, but I won’t hold my breath for him.
James, I didn’t flag you. Not even once.
I rarely flag comments, unless it is a very tasteless comment on a death.
BTW, ur reply was flagged and removed before I even got a chance to read it. But I am no bigot.
The interesting thing about that is sociology shows that in the great waves of US immigration,the most discriminatory group was that group which had most recently immigrated in the last generation.
Hatred of people who live along with us are not the problem. The problem with the boy scouts are heterosexuals that deny their feelings. This has been noted time and time again.
How does anything you just said make sense? He is against hatred.
“In my opinion, you can’t be a leader and you can’t teach character if you’re going to discriminate against other people.” He is a leader in our community for his acceptance.
I know.
He is not, he is making a stand against an organization that has decided to discriminate against a particular group of society based solely upon sexual orientation.
I applaud Dr Varnum for taking a stand against such a discriminatory policy.
I know, was multitasking and stand corrected.
Never have and never will. It is hard for you to grasp, but not all people dwell on whats between the legs. We have a life other than sexual thoughts and enjoy it quite well. You are another reason why all mainers should read your comment before voting in november. It might just wake them up.
You know, your biased opinion and hatred may very well be the end of boy scouts. To honor all. What part of that don’t you understand?
No, not all people dwell on what’s between the legs, but you sure seem to.
Why ARE you so obsessed with keeping gays and lesbians from being treated equally in society?
if it wasnt a big deal it wouldnt be a big deal. Remember YOUR oppressing them. My America was built by not shutting up
The late Rev. Carlson would have blessed the Boy Scouts for, in effect, driving the good dentist to leave.
Hey Einstein…an optometrist is not a dentist. Give the EYE doctor credit for showing people how to see clearly! (clearly not an orthodontist).
But it does give me pause to wonder….how many people on here know what the hell they are commenting on??
Duh uh, washco, maybe he’s been reading too much of the “eye for an eye” babble.
lmao
Whatever. I disagree. I REALLY think that Eric and Olivia deserved to go on. That sand painter is just plain SCHLOCK! Bleck! Drawing pictures of sad elephants and leaves with tears. Ack. Eric and Olivia were cute, fresh, and entertaining. I BOYCOTT!!!!!
Misinformed people such as yourself are what kept the discrimination alive far too long.
You are being rude. Show me a case of sexual abuse done by a gay person, then show me all the cases of heterosexual men who abused boy scouts. No comparison.
Jeffery Dahmer
Your point? Hitler was heterosexual. Charles Manson, Ted Bundy…um, probably all the men involved with 9/11 – and how about the guy that decided to shoot up the movie theater? There are crazies in every group.
http://www.atoast2wealth.com/2011/12/06/conn-gay-couple-charged-with-sexually-assaulting-adopted-sons/
i agree and these people who just assume leaders in the BSA are at free will to abuse kids is as baseless as can be. Do any of You so called know it all about the BSA know the safeties in place for sake of the children in our care
Obviously your safety measures have not worked. Why are so many boys sexually abused?
Wasn’t the original founder of the Boy Scouts a never-married English guy? Hmm…
he was married, but there was some question about his relationship with a close male friend of his.
Well, he was British. That alone overloads my gaydar. I have to wire in a 10k ohm resistor into the circuit just to keep the needle on the dial. I think it is those all-male British boarding schools playing havoc with the statistics.
Not for nothing was it said many years ago “beat(en) on in Eton”
The BSA does everything they can to make sure boys are not sexually abused by their leaders. They do background checks before a leader is approved. All the leaders have to take Youth protection training to know what to look for in case a child is being abused. No leader is allowed one on one contact with a child and there are supposed to be 2 leaders at all times. These are the rules that BSA sets up. If they do a background check and there is nothing there to show that they would be a danger to a child then they are approved. It is so easy for people to say that it’s the BSA’s fault when something happens, but there is only so much any organization can do. They put all the safety measures in place. If the leaders choose to disregard them that is on the leaders not on the BSA. You concentrate so much on the small percentage of bad leaders and don’t say anything about the thousands of great leaders out there that work with the boys all the time. They don’t abuse them and for many of the boys their scout leader is the only person that pays attention to them. I have been a leader in the Boy Scouts for about 15 years now. I have met some great people some of which have become good friends. One thing that continues to be a problem though is the lack of interest in a lot of the parents. They just want to drop their kids off at the meetings and come back to pick them up. They don’t want to have to actually do anything. Those are the kids that are the most vulnerable if there were a pedophile that slipped through. I bet if you looked at the percentage of boys that get sexually abused in Boy Scouts compared to the ones that don’t it would be very small. I would also bet that the ones that do get abused are the ones that the parents aren’t involved with their kids. We all have to be vigilant in keeping our kids safe. It doesn’t matter if it’s Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, school, the YMCA or sports. Unfortunately you don’t know where a pedophile is going to show up.
Well said and thank you, dlwmom.
Abuse isn’t perpetrated by heterosexuals or homosexuals. Abuse is perpetrated by very sick individuals and they could be anywhere.
I agree with your post. Like most other good posts in this venue, it won’t fly with the many posters who are either sympathetic with the homosexual agenda or are homosexual themselves. Since most of them are in that category, you might as well speak to a wall. You won’t get many posters here to agree with you.
Did you read her post? It didn’t even mention homosexuality, which is good, because it isn’t the issue.
I agree with her. The precautions she lists are great, but if one thinks that the BSA bans gays because they’re afraid of the potential for abuse, then these precautions suggest otherwise because there are supposedly no gays in the BSA.
But thanks for putting words into our mouths.
While the BSA is a racist, homophobic hate group, dlwmom’s comment is correct. Pedophiles are neither heterosexual nor homosexual; they are pedophiles. How many boy scouts in the care of the BSA have been sexually abused? The BSA takes great pains to protect their charges. Too bad, their bigotry prevents them from seeing that gay scout masters place boys in no dangers.
You are right it can happen in any organization where there are children and it happens way too often. BSA tries it’s best, yet there exist some less structured activities such as camping where pedophiles will prey. What makes it difficult, more often than not, are these men portray themselves as heterosexual and quite often are even married to cover their horrible deeds.
Thank you, Dr. Mark Varnum for acting with courage and conviction.
Thank you Dr. Mark Varnum for your courage and conviction.
And they should not be allowed to accept federal funds if they want to deny homosexuals.
I agree. They should not be allowed to use federal or state buildings or property either if they discriminate against anyone.
I think the boy Scouts of America shows intolerance and instills hatred in our youth by discriminating against God’s creation. How can the Boy Scout association profess allegiance to any religion or expect to develop future leaders if they believe it is their role to question why God did not make us sexually all the same. It does not surprise me that leadership of this homophobic group is located in the spoils of Texas. Parents who want their children not to be gay must realize the same as parents who want their children not to be handicapped, that some things are determined at birth and out of their control. Love thy gay and the handicapped child with hope for their best as God wants you to. Thanks doc for standing up to this intolerable wrong and for your sacrifice for a better, healthier, happier, and more tolerable world for all children.
The Boy Scouts are a private organization…they receive no federal monies, therefore, they are allowed to decide who can and who cannot be a part of their organization. I back them for standing up for what they believe in. I hate it when a group comes in, cries foul play and starts pushing to get what they want. If this man decides to return his medals, so be it, no big loss. That’s HIS decision.
Well this man is not a group, as far as I can see. He is, or was, a member of this organizaation. I was never an Eagle Scout, but in it, and I agree. Scouting used to be about random acts of kindness, not discrimination. You mat back some of the people in the scouts, but I’ll bet not the majority.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2008/03/25/boy-scouts-get-federal-money-for-their-discrimination/
http://secular.org/issues/bsa/
Just a couple examples of federal monies the BSA gets as the result of a ten second Google search. Many boy scout meetings are held at public schools and I’m guessing they don’t have to pay anything for the utilities they use…that is taxpayer money.
“a group”
Sorry pumpkin, but gay people are everywhere and always have been whether you realize it or not.
Except in Iran of course :)
Haha! I forgot about that comment. Ignorance is bliss, right?
The people on this thread are very “blissful”, apparently. I’m astonished at the comments and ignorance. It’s like some people never got out of 5th grade…. childish.
Yes, they do receive federal funds.
http://militaryatheists.org/news/2012/07/time-to-end-federal-support-of-boy-scout-discrimination/
http://www.thehumanist.org/humanist/articles/bsa.html
GREAT links,thanks!!!
Should we make a separate Scouts for blacks, too?
ok while we are at it we can start a White entertainment Television station a clothing line especially for white people like FUBU is for blacks a national association of white people like the NAACP
Every channel is a “White entertainment Television” station.
And there are several “national association of white people like the NAACP” and they are called “Aryan Nation”, “KKK”, etc…
belonging to the NAACP is something to be proud of. Aryan Nation and KKK members are looked down upon for belonging to those organizations.
Didn’t say that belonging to Aryan Nation or the KKK should be something to be looked up to.
I didn’t realize BET was shut off for white subscribers.. oh wait, it’s not! And as far as I know there’s nothing preventing you from buying “FUBU” or even joining the NAACP.
Thank you, Dr. Varnum. You are a man of integrity and courage.
Yours has to be one of the most bigoted comment in recent memory.
well thanks. but it was a sarcastic comment
Good for you DR. What do you want a medal? I am glad you turned your medals in. You are not worthy of holding them.
He doesn’t want them.
At least he EARNED them,which is not easy.He’s more worthy now than those who support the rotten organization this has become.Chuck GG called it right.
What does gp stand for? Gay Pride?
Now it does!Thanks for the compliment.Rainbow Flag flies proudly.
I’d dare say that man has more integrity in his pinky than…well never mind.
Wha Wha.
C’est la vie. Send it back.(Oh and don’t forget to alert the media so that your little hissy fit might be used to advance your agenda……)
LOL
psssst. he’s not the only one doing it
Isn’t that cutting your nose off to spite your face? I earned my badges and sex wasn’t involved… for or against personal choice.
Why didn’t he do that when the Girl Scouts discriminated against a lady with health problems who worked for the Maine G.S.?
Because he’s not a girl scout and the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts aren’t in any way connected?
Giving back his badges isn’t making sense.
Why doesn’t the dentist give up an arm or a leg because all stores and homes are not handicap accessible? After all there must be a Jehovah WItness in a wheelchair that would like to come and witness at everyones door but is being discriminated against because few homes have a wheelchair ramp.
Like saying your no longer baptised, here’s the water you threw on me until there’s a bible in every home, pay phone, changing room and dentist office.
Maybe yank out all his teeth until those who need teeth grow some?
Your analogies aren’t flush. The Boy Scouts are actively and purposefully discriminating and he doesn’t want to be a part of that. It’s pretty simple.
I’m sorry I thought this was about one person who cut his nose
off to spite his face.
Tree huggers don’t want me to cut down my trees, loggers want me
to cut down my trees. Do you think I care what they think? No because
believe it or not this isn’t about them this is about me and my trees.
If either group pulled thi foolishness on me, I’d burn my forest down.
That just proves you’re a petty and spiteful person then. That’s on you.
So you you do get my point, burning down my forest makes no sense
proves nothing. Thank you for getting “it”
It’s not even an analogy though. It doesn’t make sense.
The guy doesn’t want to be associated with a group that openly and actively discriminates. It’s not complicated. There is no need for your non-clarifying analogies.
So you get my point too, it makes no sense., for the eye doc ( whom I
have called dentist) , to give up badges. He can stop donating and refuse
to allow his kids to join, maybe post a sign in his office “Will not
treat “Boy Scouts”
Guess you missed that bit about Dr Varnum being in optometry and not dentistry huh?
Your a little slow on the draw I just said I did.
No I’m not, your comment was not there when I made mine but thank you for playing!
So, the doctor should poke people’s eyes out to make you happy?
No need to bring violence in this. In a few years this guy will be
sorry about his badges. Just like I’d be sorry if I burnt my forest down
trying to prove a point
If the doctor said nothing and threw his badges in the trash, he’d still
feel bad later.
What concerns me is I knew nothing about sex until I was about 16,
so why are little kids talking about sexual preferences a such a young age?
Because the story about the Girl Scouts was one isolated case and was addressed properly once known.
btw: It was all one lawsuit, filed to benefit one private individual, not a national policy, and the lawsuit was dismissed,
“I’ll call B.S. on that statement.”
And I call B.S. on your comment.
~~~~
“The gays have been forcing the issue on their agenda for many years now.”
Any sentence that starts off with “you gays”….well I will let you finish the sentence.
~~~~
“You know not and I know it.”
What?
~~~~
“They are trying everything in their power to diminish heterosexual life in general, and religion.”
How precisely are “they” diminishing your life? Are “they” trying to recruit you? Are “they” forcing you to watch “I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry”? And what are “they” doing to religion?
~~~~
“Anytime the subject comes up, all they can do is broach the subject using all the so called perverted heterosexuals and their hainous acts that they commit.”
What?
~~~~
“They always want to dredge up the worst heterosexual life brings to the table, then make comparisons to their lifestyle making themselves appear as pure as the driven snow.”
What?
~~~~
“Well you know what, it just isn’t that way all the time.”
I have no idea what point you are attempting to make.
~~~~
“It’s an agenda, and they are pushing it in every venue possible.”
Well guess what???? Life is an “agenda”. Religion is an “agenda”. Everything is or has an “agenda”. Just because you disagree with someones “agenda” doesn’t make it wrong.
~~~~
“It’s easier to alter young minds than old minds.”
A mind is like a parachute….it only works when it is open. It seems that your mind is closed….very closed indeed.
Good comment. Like mine, the boys on the left will have it pulled, all the while pleading for equal rights while they suppress freedom of speech.
You have freedom of speech, but you don’t have freedom to post whatever you want here. The freedom of speech is only binding on government action- the government cannot prevent you from posting here, but the BDN can.
Ignorance is bliss my friend
Well said! I hope the boys on the left don’t have your comment pulled like they did mine. They dimmish freedom of your speech, not theirs, all the while crying for equal rights.
My comments get removed all the time. You do not have freedom of speech on a private web site.
I followed the house rules.
And that is why your comments are still active.
Yes and I was unable to flag one of civility’s comments, tactic of these guys is to flag differing opinions, they do not want reason only their rhetoric to be posted
Mormons… now theres something that should be on the ballot
it is
I guess I know some people that will be changing eye doctors.
Yes, I do expect this wonderful man will be getting lot of requests for new patients.
Right here!Although I fortunately don’t need an eye doc right now,Dr. Varnum will be on my list.
Well,you’re already exposing your “blindness”maybe you need a good eye doc before you do go blind.
It is right not to uphold the Boy Scout Oath.
dont let the door hit ya
Hater.
Way to go Doc!
“In my opinion, you can’t be a leader and you can’t teach character if you’re going to discriminate against other people.”
Great!
They’re the quickest ones to screech “I’m a victim!”
There is an Alternative Scouting orgnization that does not discriminate. It is associated with the World Federation of Independent Scouts and supported by Colin Powell.
http://www.bpsa-us.org./
We are looking into it for my great grandchildren.
wow.. substitute “blacks” for “gays” and “whites” for “heterosexuals” and it’s VERY EERIE!!
No comparison. Apples to oranges.
Why do you call it apples to oranges? You must be one of those people that believes your sexuality is a choice.
Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, not a choice, that includes many animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
You really believe everything you read and hear? There is some truth to references like this, but people who fall into this category are far outnumbered by people to whom it is not a genetic predisposition. The gay lobby hangs there hat on this argument because it provides a much better fight for them.
Do you really believe that people would choose to be gay and be the subject of ridicule, harrassment and scorn from all the bigots and closed mined people in this world? I think not.
Internal thought process will far outweigh external factors.
Well, I did make the choice to be more fabulous in exchange for the teasing, bullying, being threatened and fearing for my safety while in high school! Wearing great clothes in exchange for being called “fa*got” every day. No brainer!!!
Well said!As a heterosexual male,I’m proud to support ALL of my sisters and brothers seeking equality!I am proud to donate to MUM and will be there until November and onward.
What, are you from the Christian Civic League?
No. Not at all. I know its easy to marginalize religion though.
It might also be because it’s true.
nah, prejudice all.
Is it? Because I have to tell you that fighting against SSM feels a lot like fighting against mixed-race marriages. The rhetoric is almost identical.
Exactly how I see it! The people talking about “the gays” are stuck back in the 60’s!
Straight people only!? Get real.
Well said.
Wow. Talk about paranoid. We need to accept all people. That is the religion I learned. Look at the real evil in the world.
Quite an uproar here. So this guy has a right to think as he does and take the stand that he does, so do I. I wish him the best in his life. I am glad I have my life instead of his however.
Simply because he believes it’s wrong to discriminate?
Isn’t he discriminating against the BSA for not agree with his opinions?
No, that’s a ridiculous assertion. He said he doesn’t want to be a part of the group any more, how on earth could you call that discrimination? You’re trying to turn the tables around and it’s silly.
He believes they are wrong because of their rejection of openly gay men and boys. He is intolerant to their opinions about gays. He is in essence playing the same role they are. He’s pointing the finger and saying “This is not ok.”, just as they are. I dont see how you fail to understand that. Im not trying to turn the tables around. I was a scout. I dont know this Dr an I am not gay and thus nor do I care or concern myself about the whole gay debate, it simply isnt my business. I have no angle or agenda here. I couldnt care less. However, I will concern myself with the fact that people fail to understand very basic concepts.
That’s silly. You don’t have to tolerate intolerance. You’re trying to argue that bullies have a right to be a jerk and that’s not true. If someone would tell me they hate me and I can’t be included in their group for being French, I’m not intolerant or discriminating when I fight against that.
The premise of your “concept” is a typical strategy of those trying to deflect against the real issue at hand. It’s projecting the behavior of one onto another. So when the boy scouts are engaging in discrimination, you just point your finger at others and say they’re the ones discriminating. An extreme example of what you’re doing would be like the KKK accusing a black person of being the true racist. It’s just ridiculous.
This is not news.
What would you do down the road that he or she is gay? It could happen.
If the boy scouts lifted the ban, they would get hundreds more medals returned.
Good Riddance..Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out…
Who comes up with these poll questions? The debate is about whether it’s morally acceptable for Boy Scouts to ban gays. The U.S. Supreme Court has already decided that the organization, as a private club, is allowed to have such a policy under the association clause of the First Amendment.
I agree. I think the Boy Scouts should absolutely change their policy, but in our free society it should be their choice to do so, not a government mandate.
So long as you are a private organization that does not take government funding, you should be free to admit or deny anyone to your club.
All that said, I think the Boy Scouts are wrong to have this policy. It does nothing to protect children, and in fact harms gay children who would benefit from seeing positive role models in scouting. Instead they are made to think that being gay is somehow a reason to be ostracized and kept away.
Remove from them all federal funds… THEN and ONLY then are they a “private club”.
no it is propaganda and indoctrination.
And you have now been flagged again.
Well James, you just said a mouthful right there didnt you? Basically you have said to us all, that your children are brought up in a straight world and that if one of them were to come out as gay, well they likely wouldnt be welcome in your world. Do you honestly think you are any different than anyone else out there that is practicing bigotted, hypocratic language whenever they talk about something that is not like them?..I pray none of your children are gay, for their own sake, because the loss of a parent or the love of one is far too much for these young people to have to bare.
I had a friend in high school who was terrified to ‘come out’ because of the horror stories about parents reactions.
I really do feel sorry for James’ children.
My sister came out to my parents.. my father didn’t react well. They haven’t spoken for 30 years. He’s very old now. He regrets his reaction very much. When facing death people tend to rethink what’s important. Too late though. Sad.
The same thing happened to a good friend of mine although the circumstances were financial,not sexual.They had a terrible argument and his father never woke up the next morning. My friend has never been the same.I hope your sister is doing well.
Well I was lookin for new opt and he was recommended but that kills it for me thanks for the tip
Your loss, not his.
Really? How? Perhaps Dr. Varnum is less skilled as an Opt then the person he will get. In that case, Aceman is not loosing at all and having chosen his Opt based on his personal beliefs and not his level of skill would have magically worked out in his favor, thus negating your statement and flawed perspective. Not like Acemens is any better, of course.
I’d answer your question, but I tend to avoid devils-especially ones who can’t spell.
How quaint. Another sheep. I suppose the reason you didn’t answer is because you cannot and not because of whatever slight spelling error I might have committed. Unfortunate, really, people who use grammar/spelling as their only retort when in the face of superior logic. And, you can avoid the devils like me but you can’t avoid the devils inside yourself. Enjoy fantasy land.
Well stated Doc. I do not understand why everyone is so interested in who everyone else is sleeping with! Before people respond, please understand that just because someone is gay, it does not mean that they are ill and want to have sex with children.
Well done, Doctor.
James, it sounds to me like you’re knocking on the closet door … from the inside.
I know one optometrist that I won’t be using!
And I’m sure he would be happy about that!
Too bad…he might have helped you see the light. Ah well, carry on with your myopia and tunnel vision.
The Boy Scouts rightly held up their ban on allowing known homosexuals to serve as leaders in their private organization. They know that if they did change their position then the Boys Scouts would cease to exist. No sane parents would allow their son to be mentored or camp in the wilderness with known homosexual men.
Homosexual men pose no danger to children. Your attitude here is offensively ignorant of the facts.
This policy does nothing to keep children safer, and in fact serves to make gay children feel ostracized and unwelcome.
Most parents these days understand that it is the content of someone’s character that makes them good for supervising children or not, sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.
Journal of Sex
Research which noted that homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the
total number of child sex offenses, even though they are outnumbered by
heterosexuals 20 to one. Less than four percent of the population commits
one-third of the offenses against children!
Try Again and CITE your references…..otherwise your claim means absolutely nothing. Other than your irrational apparent fear of others- your claim is baseless. There is an 11/1 ratio regarding hetero/homo pedophilia- which simply stated means that for every 11 heterosexual pedophiles there is 1 homosexual pedophile. Department of Behavioral Sexology- Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
You’re lying there. The last PubMed reference I was able to find put the number far, far lower, in alignment with the % of homosexuals in the population.
Well since the Girl Scouts of America have no such ban then you can find examples of bad outcomes from that organization yes?
What about all the parents who put their kids at risk by sending them to church after the sex scandals?Who also kept throwing $$ into the plate like sheep,thereby allowing the church to cover up its filth?
As I child, there was a pedophile in our church who went around with the basket for our offerings. I cringed every time he came around. Inside, I did not want to give the offering my parents had given me, but also did not want to get in trouble. This person was not known to be gay.
Oh tsk tsk, GP. Apparently that doesn’t count because it was done in a holy place. They probably even think it was all sanctioned by God.
No sane parent ? Seriously ? Ever hear of the Reverend Bob Carlson or Jerry Sandusky both mentored kids, both were married, both had children, both are/were pedophiles…..apparently these two would be whom you would choose to ‘mentor’ your children. One would think that no sane parent would instill bigotry and fear in their children simply due to that parent’s ignorance and irrational fear of others- a fear which has no basis. Ridiculous.
Good for him, it’s time to crawl out of their caves and just be boy scouts, cut out the bull.
I don’t agree with the Boy Scouts stance, but I think turning in your medals is self serving. “Hey, everyone, look at me! I care about gay rights!” As if getting some medals back in the mail will make them change their tune.
It is a movement occurring all over the country to show that many, many of those who best meet the true definition of a boy scout do not agree with their discriminatory policy.
Local papers are covering local folks who are involved.
How can you define what it means to be a Scout if you disagree with the policy of the organization that determines what a Scout is? I am lost.
The international scouting organization embraces diversity and does not discriminate.
They are the original scouting organization and are a wonderful source for determining what a true scout is.
Kudos to Dr. Varnum for taking a stand…..It shows character on his behalf….
well i had a feeling this was gonna open up a huge battle its such a hard topic i understand bsa taught many young men about bein helpful and responsible also community service like working on community projects im not sure how this will fall i meen i have freinds who are gay and also have freinds who are religous to me in my mind we are not supposed to judge only one person casts judgement
Crawl back under your rock, then?
Such a mature comment. How old are you?
Sexual abuse in the boy scouts happened all the time I thought it was supposed to help kids not mess them up. Try keeping the child molesters and gay leaders out
Keep the child molesters out, absolutely!
But that has nothing to do with gays who would like to participate in the boy scouts, be they children, parents, or volunteers. The policy is misguided and does harm to gay scouts.
Boy Scouts To Turn Over Files In California Sex Abuse Cover-Up Case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/scouts-to-turn-over-sex-abuse-files_n_1288894.html
yup, keep child molesters out but because someone is gay does not mean that they are molesters. Child molesters are very ill individuals. I have yet to read an article in the news that states that a gay individual is charged with child molestation. I have seen the one story which involved the incident in Bangor that lead to a suicide…the news information seemed to me to indicate that he was bisexual, being investigated for child molestation. What has always “messed kids up” is being taught to discriminate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dr. Varnum made a very noble decision. Regardless of one’s viewpoint, he took action to support his.
I was troubled by the polling question. It asks if the BSA “should be allowed” to discriminate vs. “should they discriminate.” As a private organization and assuming it receives no taxpayer funding or benefits, I tend to equate them legally like the Klan. That is, they are entitled to discriminate. However, I find it appalling that they do.
The BSA is not the same group that most of us know as kids. They moved their headquarters to Arlington, TX, from Washington, DC, and into the bible belt. There is far more emphasis on “family values” than on “young men camping and having fun.” Their major contributors are quite conservative, as well. I think their dwindling membership says a great deal.
“They” didn’t move it, the National President at the time, a Texas native did, in the late seventies. The BSA was also headquartered in New York City, and New Briunswick, NJ.
Not to be nitpicking, but if the National President worked for the BSA, then “they” or at least, “he,” move the HQ’s.
In a nutshell, the BSA seems to have not kept up with the times. I hear the GSA is doing well but the BSA’s membership numbers are declining. There is nothing wrong with the usual generic “good person” values but if they are, or are perceived to be, restrictive against others or favoring one religion over another, this can be a real turn-off for kids and their parents.
BSA should focus on interesting programs and as a result of participating in interesting programs, they also achieve the goal of building young men. It’s time for and update and a new approach.
BSA needs to take in consideration the 1000’s of youngters who are youthful active scouts and ‘know’ they are or feel ‘gay.’ I’m talking kids here… they know at an early age how they feel. BSA’s policy is simply discrimination disguise as free speech. I’m sure 1000’s of young boy scouts now feel fear of saying what they are inside. What’s next? Ban boys who are chubby, have a hare lip, a limp, brown eyes? Being gay is a natural state for millions, they were born into their gender. The general public and BSA need to educate themself before they wound any more children. Adults need to get over themself and think of the fear so many kids live in based on discrimination policies from Chick-Fil A, to BSA, to the baker who will not bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. Discriminating against gays of any age is harmful to the future of millions of children listening to adults lash out so easily and ignorantly. Gay kids can tolerate only so much pressure of hate-filled and ignorant rhetoric that they read and sense is directed at them. Kudos to Doctor Varnum.
BSA needs to take in consideration the 1000’s of youngters who are youthful active scouts and ‘know’ they are or feel ‘gay.’ I’m talking kids here… they know at an early age how they feel. BSA’s policy is simply discrimination disguise as free speech. I’m sure 1000’s of young boy scouts now feel fear of saying what they are inside. What’s next? Ban boys who are chubby, have a hare lip, a limp, brown eyes? Being gay is a natural state for millions, they were born into their gender. The general public and BSA need to educate themself before they wound any more children. Adults need to get over themself and think of the fear so many kids live in based on discrimination policies from Chick-Fil A, to BSA, to the baker who will not bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. Discriminating against gays of any age is harmful to the future of millions of children listening to adults lash out so easily and ignorantly. Gay kids can tolerate only so much pressure of hate-filled and ignorant rhetoric that they read and sense is directed at them. Kudos to Doctor Varnum.
The survey question is a poor one. For better or worse, the BSA is not a public agency nor a private entity offering public service or accommodation. If it was, the whole question would be a different matter. But like any private club existing for the pleasure of its membership and no one else, that organization has the right to determine eligibility for membership at any level and the rest of it. They have the right to be as narrow-minded and sanctimonious as they wish.
For our part, the rest of us have the right to refuse to have anything do with the BSA, and if so-moved to make sure they are not included in public events. There is no reason, for instance why the BSA ought be part of national, state and community holidays and commemorations or to use public facilities for their activities. Waving the flag and assuming the patriot position oughtn’t guarantee inclusion. Would anyone expect other bigoted organizations to be invited to such events? I hope not.
Dr. Varnum should be held in the highest esteem. He is the one who is taking the moral high ground. I am also a former BSA supporter, scout, and scout leader who no longer will affiliate with the BSA because of their discriminatory practices. I am a straight, NOT THAT IT SHOULD MATTER, adult who came to the same conclusion that the BSA is practicing discrimination as a matter of choice and that choice makes them unacceptable as a leader in our society.
If you are unfamiliar with them, the Navigators USA group has been founded to provide a scouting opportunity without a discriminatory base. I highly recommend you check out their website at http://www.navigatorsusa.org to find out more.
It is amazing that there are so many people still willing to stand behind their bigotry and try to claim it is the morally “straight” position. It is no different than the past generations claiming a “rightful” position of slavery, apartheid, class discrimination, sexual discrimination, etc. As I always told my children as they were growing up, “small people will try to make themselves larger by trying to make others smaller”, sad.
Funny thing about “morality” each person defines their own.
Yeah, its even funnier how the vast majority of the world cannot grasp this absurdly simple philosophical concept.
…agreed… but I’m not laughing!
I tried despair. It didnt work. People still stayed ignorant no matter how I lamented it. Now, I laugh, if only through scorn.
How do we explain our US Military’s policy to our Eagle Scouts.
Thank you for speaking out Dr. Varnum!
I thought the boy scouts was God believing, how can it be both ways, I hope they continue to hold to their believes. Mark Varnum is not that important.
Mr.Varnum has improved lives due to his profession and his stand.Your god is not that important nor does he exist.
In fairness the B.S.A. has “improved lives.” also.
Good for you, Dr. Varnum!
well I’ll never buy another one of his books or give him any business….
I’m sure the Doctor will be devastated by this news……NOT.
no doubt…non news item anyway….
The Scouting organization has been slowly turning into a youth group for the Mormon church. While I have no problem with people having conservative beliefs, I think its too bad that those beliefs have ruined an organization that I used to like.
Good bye Boy Scouts – thanks for the years of fun you gave me as a kid, but now it’s time for you to go away because you give me the creeps.
Well put. This is not widely known outside Utah (and Nevada/Idaho)…it is practically their youth group.
There’s a reason the Mormons are so secretive.Big Religion in all forms should be avoided.
I thought I read in the bible “Adam & Eve”? Maybe I read that wrong & it was “Adam & Steve”? I believe the Boyscouts have the right to defend their way of doing things. It’s a private club & don’t join if you don’t like the rules and MORALS they follow.
Then remove from them ALL federal dollars they receive.
You are kidding right? Since 2005 the BSA has returned all government charters and accepts only private funds.
There is a controversy as to their free access to National parks, monuments and military bases.
No non-profit is free of federal funds…
Their tax-free status needs to go, as should their free access, and meeting in government buildings.
Absolutely to the tax free status. As soon as churches, political organizations, and other “tax free” entities lose theirs as well.
Free access is granted to certain groups on the basis of their purpose. I personally believe that either EVERYONE (all citizens) get free access, or no one (including politicians, elderly and handicapped) gets it.
I’ve always been a big fan of “pay-go.”
Adam and Steve? Haven’t heard that one before.
Trout specializes in the trite.
What does the biblical story of creation have to do with a youth program?
I agree they boy scouts have the right to defend their way of doing things.
But I will say I think their discriminatory policy is wrong, and I look forward to them changing this policy one day.
“The gays have been forcing the issue on their agenda for many years now.”
Kinda like how the black people got sick of being discriminated against back in the 50’s and 60’s?
Ha! Another person who wants us to do hair, arrange flowers, make great costumes for movies, dance around for the kids at Disneyland, then go back into the closet at night and be quiet.
It’s not 1962 anymore.
I agree, why do those who want us to be tolerant of other lifestyles try to banish and punish anybody who doesn’t agree with them completely? I hope chik-filet comes to Maine.
I hope Chik Fil -A comes to Bangor too, so that I can boycott it.
You do know that anti-gay groups around the country have called for boycotts of Amazon, Microsoft, Google, General Mills, Kraft Foods, and Starbucks among others for their support of equality, right?
Really? Did the Mayors of Boston and Philly say they would ban Amazon, Microsoft etc. for not having the right “Thoughts”? Tolerance for all! (unless your against gay marraige). Oh My the hypocricy.
Isn’t America amazing….one can voice one’s opinion openly and freely. That is what living in a Democracy is all about!
That chicken company can say anything it wants…so can everyone else. Personally, I stand by their rights to voice their opinions, but I am not a customer and never will be.
thanks for reading
And how many billion dollars are those companies worth?Thankfully the christian right is dying off.Looks like those boycotts were woefully ineffective.
Your name says it all.And if you’re going to support a company,you could at least spell their name right.It’s obvious you just ate up the pablum spooned out by the RW.
You are right about the spelling but I have never been to one of their wonderful establishments which BTW are closed on Sundays to give their employee’s a day off. I hope one comes to Maine!
I often hear your argument from others. However, I think it is pretty simple to explain. The pro-SSM crowd wants to be inclusive and expand civil rights and equality to others, and at no cost or impact to anyone. No one has provided a valid argument against SSM that didn’t involve views shared by a few religious sects. Certainly, there are other religions who endorse SSM. And, religion has nothing to do with secular civil marriage, anyway.
On the flip side, the anti-SSM crowd is perceived by the public as wanting to deny a civil right to a minority. That is it in a nutshell. The majority of the public looks at this as a negative action and a deliberate persecution of a minority.
For example, you may not like blacks or Mexicans, but actively campaigning against them is perceived differently than just staying neutral. This is what we are talking about here with CFA.
Had CFA’s CEO simply gone with the statement published on his website stating that his company “going forward” does not discriminate based upon sexual orientation (among other things), the public – even those who knew of CFA’s $2M donations of 2009/10 – would have surmised CFA has had a change of heart and wishes now to remain neutral. They, too, had “evolved,” and while they did not necessarily support SSM, they were not going out of their way to spend time and resources against it. I think that is fair and would have been praised by the pro-SSM crowd as a step forward.
But, no, CEO Cathy had to open his mouth and insert both feet.
So when Maine voters outlawed SSM we had our feet in our mouths? I guess you would have us rounded up and put in thought prisons until we confess?
Apples & Oranges. I was speaking of what the CEO of a large corporation should have done, and did not.
The people in Maine in 2009 were misled by a multi-million dollar ad campaign that even the anti-SSM leader stated was “over the top.”
The BSA follows what’s called “Youth Protection” to prevent the 1:1 ratio in which sexual abuse cases typically take place in. It is irrational to assume that two adults in a same sex relationship are also interested in the same kind of relationship with youth. I am a female who has earned high ranked award status in the BSA Venturing program and just as I see no reason for my intentions as a straight female to be questioned in my interactions with the youth, I see no reason for the intentions of a gay male to be questioned (outside of the typical hiring process & background check). People: excluding one sexual orientation from scouting is not a case of youth protection, it is a case of discrimination. Let is keep in mind that “morals” are completely subjective and a creation of human thought. Change your thoughts and you change your destiny.
It is 2012: we now know that Earth is not flat. When will we all be able to agree that gay men and women have the same social capabilities as straight men and women?
Well said. It’s amazing that people here still have the misconceptions that we find in police anti-gay public service films from the 1950s.
The BSA having re-affirmed their bigotry having been given the opportunity to correct their irrational policy must now be associated with other hate groups in the US like the KKK, the patriot movement, and the Romney campaign.
More than 40 years ago I opposed the BSA attempt to brainwash black inner-city young boys by bringing them into the white suburbs and filling them with “white culture is best” propaganda. They are still the same racist, homophobic organization today.
Boy o boy Jon. To lump the KKK (who lynched African Americans for attempting to vote) with the B.S.A. and the Romney campaign (who as far as I know never murdered anyone) is equivalent to Governor LePage comparing the IRS to the Gestapo.
The left seems to have sever myopia when it comes to THEIR issues.
Should [INSERT NAME OF *PRIVATE* ORGANIZATION HERE] be allowed to ban gay Scouts and leaders?Constitution: “Yes.”
Should Americans be allowed to start their own private organization that allows gay leaders:
Constitution: “Yes.”
Problem solved.
I am ashamed of Dr. Varnum and will make sure I remember to avoid his services for my next eye check. Tit for tat.
PS – if you still have your boy scout medals as a middle aged man, perhaps you have other issues to worry about.
“I am ashamed of Dr. Varnum I am ashamed of Dr. Varnum and will make sure I remember to avoid his services for my next eye check. Tit for tat.”
– I would appreciate clarification — are you ashamed of his stance against discrimination? Are you ashamed that he has exercised his first amendment right? What specifically are you ashamed of and why are you ashamed for him?
“If you still have your boy scout medals as a middle aged man, perhaps you have other issues to worry about.” – This makes far more sense. The institution is just a kid thing and should not be respected, because once a child is an adult, they should take no pride in a, ” children’s institution.” What else could you have meant by your jab than what I have stated? It appears that you are ashamed of people having equality and within societies places of upward mobility. It is apparent that you ashamed of equality for people that you believe do not deserve it. Your jab says one thing – you are a champion of discrimination, I am not ashamed for you, but hopeful your life will not be so dark in the future.
Life is all about discrimination. We all discriminate (make a qualified choice) on a daily basis. Attempting to legislate tolerance or freedom of choice is the same as fascism.
I think this doctor is fine making his choice to no longer support the Boy Scouts. I am doing the same think in no longer supporting his business. I am not bothered by his decision to send the medals back, but I am very bothered by his decision to publicize it. To me, nothing is worse than feigned outrage.
I somehow doubt the good Dr’s outrage is anything but genuine.
The folks that I know who are gay also have more commitment to their partner! I would sooner have my kids around a friend or family member of mine who is gay than have them around other people that I know who sleep around with every individual of the opposite sex that they can find who will have sex with them.
We need only go to the Boy Scout Laws (www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/scout-law.asp) to understand that Dr. Varnum acted in full accordance with them. Returning his rank and the medals representing that rank was the action of a loyal, obedient, brave,trustworthy, and kind person. Dr. Barnum is an exemplar of those virtues of excellence in character and leadership the Boy Scouts seek to foster.
The sad irony here is that the Boy Scouts of America should be honoring and commending this fine man. Dr. Mark Barnum is the embodied realization of the Mission Statement of Boy Scouting: ” to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Laws.”
One need only go to the Boy Scout Laws to
One need only look to the Boy Scout Law in order to see that in returning his rank and the medals representing that rank, that Dr. Mark Varnum was acting in accordance with scout law. Dr. Varnum is “truthful, friendly, obedient, brave, and courteous; and is then, an exemplar of those virtues which the Boy Scouts hold to be the very foundation of excellence of character and leadership.
The sad irony here is that The boy Scouts of America should be commending and publicly honoring Dr. Varnum, for he is the living, breathing, embodiment of the realization of their mission statement:
“to prepare young people to make ethical and moral
choices over their lifetime by installing in them the
values of the Scout Oath and Law.”
Thank you Dr. Mark Varnum for honorably living your promise.
Suggestion for daily question: Do you like the name of the new Bangor Civic Center?
Well gee you really showed them awful misguided scout people by giving those boy scout medals back. That’ll really teach’em a lesson. I’ll bet they won’t be able to sleep for…….at least eight more hours.
and get over yourself doc.
There you got your 5 minutes of fame Doc who really cares
Good for you Mark, the problem is intolerance on so many levels.
So being intolerant of the views of the Boy Scouts is justifiable?
Mark is not prohibiting the Boy Scouts from anything, he is making a principled statement by returning those medals.
Meanwhile, the Boy Scouts’ intolerance leads to marginalization and alienation for gay youths who are made to feel unwelcome and out of place by a youth organization that should do better.
Would it be ok if the boy scouts ‘views’ omitted blacks from becoming scouts? I’m sure you would find that ‘view’ alright as well…..pathetic.
And no-one understands your comment…
It’s crazy when, while deflecting from the real issue, gays are accused of ruining society, tearing down people, hating people, being intolerant, etc., as if everything is 100% perfect for us and all we want to do is make this country one big ol’ gay P-Town and we’ll stop and NOTHING to make it so, including destroying innocent bystanders who just happen to not like the notion of homosexuality while loving us at the same time. Bleck!
I am a little amazed at some of the comments the BDN is removing, which seem tame compared to some that are here. But then again, thats the BDN rag for you.
As per Dr Varnum- tissy fit much? Send in your medals- nobody cares.
I for one am glad this optomitrist spoke his opinion publically. Now I can choose who takes care of my eyes based on my beliefs. Clearly the Boy Scouts beliefs have been the same before the doctor was born, HE has changed his mind, which is what makes this a great country…but it goes both ways, in standing up for his rights or beliefs, he sides with people who espouse hate toward other peoples rights and beliefs in a much more vile and nasty way than the Boy Scouts ever would…….I wonder why the good doctor doesn’t really put something on the line and create his own group of youths who have an interest in the same things that Boy Scouts do except incorporate that lifestyle into thier fold….?..Its because he is now partners with a group who would rather rot away at the fabric of social and natural norms and try to tear it down rather than start his own group…which would be less hateful and more fair than the current movement he has sided with. Disagreement is not hate. The homosexual movement got where it is today in society by tearing down and hating those who do not believe as they do, not winning any arguement.
“tearing down and hating.” It’s total irony that you say that about the homosexuals, making us out to be bullies, tearing down everyone in our path to ruin free America as we know it. You are ignoring the thousands of gays who have been beaten and killed by those who hate. Literally tearing them down, throwing them off bridges, leaving them to die up against barbed-wire fences, beating them to death in naval ships, etc. THAT is what rots our society, not my love for and my life with my boyfriend.
And this is new to him?
The new rules if you don’t accept our values (or lack there of) and our lifestyle then you will be no more. You will tolerate us but we will NOT tolerate you. No morality and no common sense.
Huh? You’re not making sense.
Treating one another with kindness and compassion should be supported, not demonized.
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” Hamlet
Good. Send your medals back, they would be happy to scrap them for you, or maybe just throw them away, themselves. That is their right and yours too. I firmly support their choice and right to incorporate the “no gays” policy; it is their choice and right. [Maybe Obama will come up with a mandate saying it is illegal to ban gays from anything (or you will have to pay a TAX penalty). Well then, that would be cross-discrimination wouldn’t it? Or just re-writing the Constitution, no big deal, the LMSM wouldn’t say anything about cross-discrimination, just discrimination]
I hardly thought this was front page material for the BDN, and it seems the publisher has some agenda going on here. I am disappointed an Eagle Scout such as Dr. Varnum would forget the end of the Scout Oath, “To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.” The BSA has deemed that two men having sex with each other (and having nothing to do with pedophilia) does not meet their criteria of morally straight. The BSA is an organization which has been sued continuously for years on every subject and level. Truth is, the BSA is a private organization who can allow or deny membership to any person it wants to. That was decreed by the United States Supreme Court. I never hear anyone suing the Masons due to gender or definition of God, and yet I believe the Masons do not allow women and you must swear an oath to God. I also understand there is a golf course down south that denies membership to women, and it has the right to do so. Why there was even some golf courses, and they may still exist, where Tiger Woods and the President of the United States would be denied access. The timing of this BDN article is quite poignant considering all the rhetoric regarding the upcoming gay marriage issue. I personally think most people would not have an issue with gays if homosexuality wasnt constantly being crammed down our throats on television and in print all the time. I will stand with the Boy Scouts of America and their decision and will continue to support them financially and as a Scout leader. Before anyone labels me a hater, I will state I have friends who are gay, black, Native, and so on. The best thing about this country is we all are entitled to our opinions and beliefs, but that doesnt give us the right to force others into thinking our way. My motto is you live your life, I’ll live mine. Now Dr. Varnum is certainly entitleed to his opinions, and he can now call himself a former Eagle Scout. He can call me a former patient.
Morally straight would include not discriminating don’t you think? This has nothing to do with whether or not he personally accepts gays and everything to do with him standing up for exactly what he believes in, which is tolerance and acceptance.
The main issue with homosexuality in the BSA is just that, it’s their sexual preference. It makes me question their reasoning for wanting to lead and interact with boys in their community. Not only would I worry about the said person wanting to sexual abuse my child but I would worry if they would force their sexual preference on them since the leaders are role models to the scouts. There’s a difference between teaching tolerance about others beliefs and sexuality and presuading young impressionable boys with their sexuality. The BSA was founded on Christian beliefs that state in their Scout Oath and Law of putting God and their country first, I stand strongly by this.
On my honor I will do my bestTo do my duty to God and my countryand to obey the Scout Law;To help other people at all times;To keep myself physically strong,mentally awake, and morally straight.
there is a higher percent of heterosexuals that prey on children. It’s not about the child’s sex, it’s about power, and being turned on buy children.
I can see what you’re saying, but I don’t think that they would be forcing homosexuality on the boys. A leader is a leader and I believe that Scout leaders are great, whether they are gay or not. There are so many other facets to gay people than their homosexuality.
I know plenty of young people who understand homosexuality, have gay friends, see no issue with gays, but know that they aren’t gay. In an ideal world, the gay BSA leader would, while being a wonderful leader to all the boys, would also be a good role model for any boy in the scouts who is gay as well.
*I* would have liked to have had such a role model when I was young-back then the only gays I saw were on tv and they weren’t anyone you’d want to know, much less be like.
Last I checked the Boy Scouts are a private organization, they can do what they like. Dr. Varnum has the right to return the medals just as people who disagree with his actions have the right to pick a different optometrist. To be consistent Dr. Varnum should also discontinue any references to his Boy Scout, Eagle Scout and Cub Scout affiliations.
All that aside I think a better poll question would be “With all that is going on in the world today, does this really warrant coverage with video?”
1. This mans opinions regarding the BSA’s admission of openly gay people has nothing to do with his ability as a Optometrist, so all you people out there in Bangor Daily Land who are going to switch to him because you agree with his opinions, well…. Lets just say I wont be taking any of your comments seriously.
2. The BSA is a private organization and membership is an individuals choice, therefore, they can be fussy about who joins. Don’t like it? Don’t join. There’s certainly no need to get huffy about it, as the good Dr. has. Its a semi-free world. The BSA can say no gay and you can say no BSA and everything can still be all good, provided you are not caught up in the self-delusion of the superiority and solidarity of your opinions.
3. Im not a homophobe, but I think Id rather not have a gay person trying to teach me woods survival skills. Im not trying to generalize or start a flame war, but typically the gay men I meet simply arn’t cut out for the task. Im sure there are some who are, but usually, they just seem too soft. Im sure there are tough gay people just like there are manly women, but typically, I think a good study would suggest otherwise.
4. This is not news. Why make such a big deal of it. You want to know how to end racism, sexism and the whole gay debate? STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.
5. You don’t have to tell people you are gay. Thats your choice. You can be a scout and be gay, just keep your opinions to yourself. Why everyone needs to have a voice is beyond me. We are a world of 6 billion people. Your voice is very, very small. Be honest with yourself and lie to others if you must. There is no need to express your sexual preferences with others whose business it is not, especially when its disadvantagous to do so.
6. Dont concern yourself to things which you need not be subjected to.
Not a homophobe? LMAO yeah you so are. Not trying to make ‘generalizations’?? yeah you so do-‘flame war, gay men are too soft, manly women’…ALL generalizations and ALL inane stereotypes. Your genius solution to ‘end’ racism, sexism and the gay debate? just stop talking about it. BRILLIANT because we all know NOT talking about something makes it no longer exist, makes it go away and then people will just do the ‘right’ thing Pfffffffft- let me guess you’re a white guy whose straight and has never encountered any type of discrimination based on YOUR gender, sexuality or race….right? R I G H T. ‘You don’t have to tell people your gay…..be honest with yourself but lie to others.’ What alternate universe do you reside in? You shouldn’t have to LIE about anything- that statement in itself shows there is a problem in this state as well as this country regarding discrimination and prejudice. Why should someone else have to lie because YOU’RE uncomfortable?? Clearly that says something more about you and your issues- and not the other person. ‘Don’t concern yourself to things which you need not be subjected to’ REALLY? Wouldn’t that be handy? Thankfully there are people who have backbones and are intelligent enough to realize when an injustice is done that collectively it is other people’s responsibility to say ‘No that’s not ok’ and then DO something about it. Let us know when you acquire a backbone and I won’t even bother to hope for your intellect.
Actually, I have gay friends. If you stop talking about something, it stops becoming such a huge issue. Its not going to solve it instantly, but its certainly a great way to make steps to that end. The more something is in the public eye, the eye of the ignorant masses, the more complicated the issue becomes. Actually, I am a white guy, but I have suffered discrimination my whole life… I dont live in an alternate universe. Perhaps you do? You shouldnt have to lie, indeed, but if their policy is no gay’s and you are gay and want to be a scout, then what do you do? Say no, you wont tolerate my views, or do you keep your views to yourself? Who needs to know about your sexual preference? Certainly not the Scouts, really. So lie, be gay and be a Scout. Im not suggest they need to lie because I am uncomfortable. I personally don’t care what any people do with their meaningless lives. I am suggesting that in this case lying is a better alternative. Shouldnt have to, but its either scouts or not. For you to suggest I have issues because you fail to understand my points is a good indication of your level of maturity and intelligence. You mistake my arguments for anti-gay propaganda. I am merely suggesting that in a world full of intolerance and bigots the best way to avoid unneeded drama, hassle and pain is to keep your thoughts to yourself. I am a Satanist (not literal theistic Devil Worship, mind you). I dont accept God as rational. However, due to the nature of my beliefs, and the crap storm I would receive if I went around publicly declaring them, I keep them to myself, because in a world such as this, people like me are shunned and rejected, more so then gay people, even. DEVIL WORSHIPER?! LETS BURN HIM AT THE STAKE! When in fact, I don’t worship the devil, or evil, or any silly Christian idea of the sort. See, Id expect a lashing if I talked openly about my religious beliefs. Should I? Probably not. However, the world is an intolerant place. I keep my views to myself because it makes my life easier. Just like a gay man who wanted to be a scout. If he kept his views to himself, he’d be free to go about his scouting. Should he be forced to those ends? Nope. Should I be forced to answer agnostic atheist when people ask me my religious preference? Nope. But I do. Why? Because, I know if I answer truthfully my life will become a lot harder. It just isnt worth it. It sucks have to lie to people, but its better then the alternative and at the end of the day I know who and what I am and that is all that matters. Yeah, don’t concern yourself with things you need not be subjected to. Really. It is handy. Just because you get involved with other peoples problems doesnt mean you have a backbone and are intelligent, at all. How you make the relation is beyond me. Its not your responsibility to stand up for others, not at all. If they cant do it themselves it shouldnt be done. We as humans are only responsible for ourselves and those close to us. Its mass delusion which perpetuates the idea that “if we only get together in a large enough clump we can make a difference.” Baaaaaahhhh!!! Oh spare me your insults, oh mighty master of logic and philanthropy, my fragile ego cannot handle them so… Please, I have all the backbone I need, clearly, as I am openly expressing views others seem to constantly criticize and the intellect to know that you and the majority of people have no idea what I am talking about. Call me stupid, or whatever you please, clearly one of us is failing to see the point, an it isnt me. Baaaaaahhhh!
Isn’t that sort of the wrong example to set-lying to be in the boy scouts?
I think it’s important, though, for good upstanding citizens who are gay to be known as gay. With all the troubled gay youth in our country, good examples of good people who happen to be gay will go a long way in showing these gay kids that there is hope.
Its not the best example, but who’s to impress? No-one. There is no-one to impress or set an example for. You should live for you. I believe people need to find the hope within themselves. If you place your hope in another, you are doomed to failure. A man needs to accept himself as he is not because there are others like him. One has to have the courage to stand alone. There are already enough sheep and shadows in this world. We dont need any more of those. We need strong people who can handle a lashing, but we also need people who are smart enough to avoid it… This is a sad, cruel world filled with ignorance in which we play such a very small role. Im not sure how much hope there is to be found among its ruin.
Its great to see an american institution stick up for what they believe in.
Another poster said, ” thanks for the years of fun you gave me as a kid, but now it’s time for you to go away because you give me the creeps.”
I wonder if the idea of a grown homosexual man camped out in the woods, in the middle of the night, in a cozy tent all alone with a teenage boy gives the one who posted that the creeps……or maybe does the idea turn him on in some pervetedly deviant way? I’m guessing the latter.
Also, the eye doctor could have just given his little medals back without drawing the attention to himself if this wasn’t some sort of attention grab. Maybe he has some questions he needs to ask himself along with the pressing question of in the closet or out, in or out, in or out.
It’s called “making a statement.” It’s similar to hopping on a bus and going to Peabody to eat a chicken sandwich.
Dr. Varnum, good for you for standing up to the Boy Scouts. I can guarantee that there have been a number of gay boy scouts and scout leaders already, but they have had to hide their identities, or risk becoming scapegoats. You demonstrate positive leadership and good character. How sad that the Boy Scouts promote prejudice and scapegoating.
I have a new HERO! Thank You for for taking a stand against bigotry and oppression Dr. Varnum!
“The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.”
~Albert Einstein
Im a gay male and think that pedophilia is apalling and that they should be tortured and have their skin peeled off like a banana but when are we going to get out of the dark ages people??? Your saying a homosexual man cant lead boy scouts what is the harm my people arent out to turn everyone gay its the way we were born like the color of your skin so if gays can’t be leaders neither can blacks, latinos, ect.. it is rediculouse wake the %#$#up people