One of the nation’s largest environmental advocacy groups is opposing a proposed $2 billion superhighway that would link New Brunswick and Quebec through Maine, its director said Monday.
State club members feel the proposed highway would devastate Maine communities, environment and private property owners without any real benefit to Maine itself, said Karen Woodsum of the Sierra Club Maine Woods Campaign.
Sierra Club Maine will bring legal and economic resources from the club’s 1.4 million member national organization to battle the proposed highway on all levels, said Glen Brand, Sierra Club Maine director.
“Basically, we had people begging us to get involved with this,” Woodsum said Monday.
“What has been striking to us is that for the past two or three weeks, we have been lambasted with emails and phone calls from members, especially from those in the Dover-Foxcroft, Sangerville and Greenville areas,” she added. “That was really what sparked our interests in getting involved in a comprehensive campaign.”
Saying he saw a chance for improved commerce between Maine and Canada, Gov. Paul LePage in early April signed into law a bill setting aside $300,000 to study the feasibility of a privately funded highway connecting two Canadian provinces through Maine.
Republican Sen. Doug Thomas of Ripley, the bill’s chief sponsor, said it likely would be two years before the project, if it gets the go-ahead, would start.
The latest concept calls for a 220-mile highway extending from the Maine communities of Calais in the east to Coburn Gore at the border with Quebec. Private investors would bankroll the project, with estimated costs in the range of $2 billion, and maintain it with tolls paid by motorists.
Much of the traffic would be Canadian truckers moving their products from the Maritime Provinces to Quebec and Midwestern points, proponents say.
The LePage administration joined construction, pulp and paper and other business groups in supporting the bill. One of its biggest boosters is Peter Vigue, chairman of Cianbro Corp., a Maine-based construction company with operations around the country.
Club members join other local groups and residents in opposing the proposed highway.
Woodsum said the club’s frustration stems from it being denied information about the project and whom it would benefit.
Sierra Club members don’t oppose broadening Maine’s industrial potential but see many problems that the highway would create, including harm to waterways, water quality, critical habitat and threatened and endangered species; private property and eminent domain; local communities’ environment and economies; and public recreational lands, members said.
“There is a smarter way to move goods and generate economic activity through Maine: upgrading and using the existing Maine Montreal and Atlantic Railway rail line that travels east-west across Maine to Canada,” Band said in a statement released Monday.
The club will meet on May 17 to discuss assembling a study that would show how revitalizing the rail line would create the same economic benefits as a highway without the harm, Woodsum said.
The LePage administration’s support of about $10.5 million in repairs planned this summer for 233 miles of state-owned railroad tracks between Millinocket and Madawaska shows that improved rail service enjoys strong bipartisan support, Woodsum said.
The line’s previous owner and rail carrier, Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway, sought federal approval in February 2010 to abandon the tracks, citing losses of $4 million to $5 million annually. Maine taxpayers saved the rail line in June 2010 by approving $7 million in borrowing to buy the tracks after manufacturers who use the line said its collapse would doom Aroostook County’s economy. They were purchased by the state in 2010 for $19.1 million.
“That is very encouraging,” Woodsum said. “We actually plan to work on pulling together a thorough report of the economic benefits and feasibility of the east-west rail line.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
This highway will save travel time-Tourists can stay home and look at a runined environment right where they live in New Jersey.
Thank goodness these enviro groups weren’t around until recently. We’d all be on horseback still.
One of these “enviro” groups, the Nature Conservancy went to great lengths to protect the Machias River Corridor. You can read about it online and then maybe you’ll have enough interest and information to actually visit the area. That will help you to know what you are talking about. A 4 lane highway through the middle of this 25,000 acre area would be a real shame. By the way- about 8 million was spent protecting the area.
The real travesty is these Liberal Treehuggers coming in here and dictating how Mainers should live. The People in the 2nd District have stated loud and clear they want these East-West Highways. That we want NO PARK PERIOD. When is it going to set in that your park isn’t going to happen. That if LePage and DOT want this road built bad enough they can use emergency powers for economic reasons to put this road in. The Liberals wouldn’t be able to do a darn thing about it the Courts have already ruled on this when the Enviros tried similar tactics on
re-building several roads in rural areas of Maine. This road is coming the Liberals better get over it. These Enviros need to stop living off of my tax dollars and start taking LePage’s advice from yesterday get off your lazy butts and get a job. We want this road, we want the economic benefits that this road will bring and the spinoff jobs it brings. These parks and land buys are nothing more than a drain on our economy and us taxpayers and it needs to stop.
Ever been to Boston?
THAT used to look like the Maine woods at one time.
I guess nobody cared enough about wilderness back then … it must have seemed SO vast … this whole wilderness called North America.
NOW look at it.
Do YOU care about what’s left of Maine ???
(duh)
What’s left? What’s left of Maine is 88.3% forested which is at the top of the list as far as all the states go. I think we have a little wiggle room here.
Yes you are correct. And once the e/w highway is done Maine will still be 88.29999% forested.
Yes and Boston is GREAT! There will NEVER be a city the size of Boston in Maine. So what’s the problem and what don’t you like about Boston?
Yeah, LePage advice, no new jobs as promised, boy, that was a good promise to get him elected. Yeah, he is our leader even thou he is the “Worst” Governor ever elected in the history of Maine.
They said the same type of air headed stuff about Reagan, too.
I really wish you would leave the word “liberal” out of that statement. I am liberal in some respects but conservative in others. I for one, think this highway project is long long overdue. When I was in college in the 90’s this was being discussed. And I will never forget this quote someone in my class said, “they shouldn’t build it because you can’t snowmobile across a four lane highway”. Really? Really?
First of all, Mr. Snowmobile was definitely not what you would call a liberal. Second of all – what is this drive to stop progress at all costs? I am so sick of people who move to Maine after they have made money elsewhere and have the time and money to oppose things like this influencing policy! The real people of Maine this effects need to speak up and see projects like this as what they are – opportunities for jobs while the project is built and ongoing commerce coming through the state long term. Young people move out of state in droves because the jobs are there. We can’t all work at Family Dollar or McDonalds – that does not provide anywhere near a living wage. We need infrastructure to support new businesses and the state economy.Maine is NOT going to turn into Massachusetts any time soon.
Does anyone believe that this highway is actually going to produce significant numbers of permanent jobs? There’s been no certainty in anything mentioned other than temporary construction work for companies like that of the primary pusher on this project, Peter Vigue. Anything else for Maine is just a roll of the dice. It’s time to focus on real, bona fide, high quality, durable jobs and stop giving the state away to special interests promising temporary work and non-specific, hazy, unverifiable permanent jobs.
If I-95 didn’t deliver Maine into an economic paradise, then why does anyone believe that a private road connecting Canada to Canada will?
A lot of of us were hunting, camping , hiking and fishing in those areas long before the “treehuggers” got involved. When Maine is developed like other New England states that most Mainers don’t like -what will we do then? Our economic development is more hampered by welfare, taxes, and an under educated work force than this proposed highway.The state of Maine can’t build the extension between Brewer and Route 9-this Canadian connector will never happen.
Hilarious. Has it occurred to you that “tree hugging liberals” might be just as Maine as you are? And might be employed? And pay taxes? All of the above applies to me (and many others that I know who would fit your label) and because I am a Mainer thru and thru, I want this place to remain in tact for my grandchildren and their children. In addition to getting an education and working, I also manage to volunteer time to organizations that have Mainers best interest (clean air and water necessary for life!) in mind. It seems the real problem here is that Maine is one of the most heavily tax-burdened states in the nation, and we have very little to show for it. There’s more to life than money.
The fact that you are employed and pay taxes, sets you apart from those who so desperately want jobs. “There’s more to life than money” is a typical chant/rant from those who have food, warmth, shelter and a job. I suggest you stand outside the box and look at the whole picture.
Thank you for kindly ensuring that I maintain adequate perspective. I assure you, I know the flip side as well, growing up very poor, and having to work hard for everything I got, raising my children essentially by myself – no handouts – eating their leftovers. Which is why I make it a priority to work for improving circumstances for all life, including humans! We need a clean environment to be able to sustain ourselves. Without that, we’re dead in the water (same as the fish!)
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If you oppose the highway with your statement “I don’t want to see Maine become overdeveloped like other states in New England”, I hope that same reasoning applies to the proliferation of industrial wind projects in rural Maine. If there is something that is out of place and out of scale, and destructive of the environment, it is the sprawling footprint of these monstrous machines.
Due to the arbitrary RPS mandates in the northeast and the bad public policy of unduly heavy subsidization, Maine is slated to become the wind turbine plantation for all those states that foolishly say 20% or as much as 40% of electricity must come from renewable sources. That only means wind in the northeast. You think the thousands of wind turbines needed to meet Connecticut’s 20% RPS mandate will be built in that state? No, they will be built in Maine, if we don’t stop this madness. For more from the citizens of Maine on this issue, go to http://www.windtaskforce.org
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The real travesty is using taxpayer dollars to finance a pie-in-the-sky road. If it is so needed and wanted, then great, go ahead and raise the money and build it. You have your friend Paul in Augusta to smooth the regulatory way, no need to bother the rest of us who don’t want the road.
All the wonderful “it will pay for itself” doesn’t mean it will. How high do the tolls need to be to finance a billion dollar highway highway from nowhere to nowhere? Nothing is really said about the financing, is it? Just 300,000 for the study, and backing from a big construction outfit. (Now that’s a surprise, NOT.)
Any ideas about what the benefits will be? Jobs pumping gas for Irving, sure. Will biotech or computer firms set up shop? Where will the workers come from if they even open up a Wal-Mart there? I guess you are thinking a Wal-Mart worker will travel 100 miles and pay the high tolls to work for low wages? If you answer, just point out where even a few jobs will come from, where the people will come from.
The real travesty, not to mention shame, is for somebody like you to ask for public handouts for building the road while you wonder about what Roxanne is up to. And when you reply that you are not asking for a handout, then please explain why the process is kickstarted with $300,000 from the public till. I guess you want us to believe that billions in road construction money is just waiting to come in from the private sector, if only they can get the first 300,000 from the public? If you believe that, then just send me 100 dollars with your banking numbers, and I’ll send you part of the inheritance I just got from my father the recent dictator of a small African country.
“A 4 lane highway through the middle of this 25,000 acre area would be a real travisty (sic) “.
Why yes it would! It should be 6 lanes!
Private property owners in the area asked this environmental group to help them.
Maine doesn’t need a private toll highway, and the locals don’t need LePage stealing their homes and property just so he can make his rich buddies richer.
Private investors using the state to steal from Mainers. Way to go, hosers !
You mean those thousands of houses in the great Maine woods that will be taken? It seems to me that so many of you have no interest in any kind of prosperity. Now or ever. Maine has plenty of trees, but not enough quality roads for a prosperous “other” Maine. The next time you ride down I95 be thankful it’s there at all. It was proposed in the 50’s and completed in the 60’s. Back in a time when things could and would get done. Today this project would take 40 or 50 years to complete. If at all…
I do not equate cutting down trees and making a much needed road with polluting air and water like it was 1920 as other poster’s have said. Real environmentalists know how to get things done in the spirit of the common needs of the many. It’s the extremists that speak for the narrow few that are holding back prosperity in central and northern Maine. Maybe it’s just easier and more desirable to be taken care of than to let the dreaded prosperity creep in. After all, profit is a modern day 4- letter word.
Well said, Steve. I will add to your post the fact that the US population has doubled since 1950. The realities of industries being shut down and land being closed off, nationwide, to the HUMAN species, is what environmental extremists call PROGRESS??? As in everything, where is the “balance”?
Private investors like Quimby stealing our state,you are right. We do not need the likes of her the Sierra Club, the Nature Conversy, The Atlantic Salmon Group,the PRRT.
No…. let’s all just choke on all the pollution and toxins created by money-minded vultures who certainly don’t have our best interest in mind. Our intact environment is our most valuable resource! We can’t afford to let it go to ruin like so many other states have chosen. I, for one, am very grateful for the organizations you name above. I agree with Roostook Guy, private investors are looking to capitalize on our state and will leave it trashed. How many times have we heard “jobs, jobs, jobs” – that just don’t materialize. This highway is surely a means of connecting all the destructive assaults on our state from the tar sand pipelines, to the mountain top open pit mining that has recently been approved. All ideas which generate incredible amounts of waste and destruction.
That could very well be true, but groups that I believe do not want balance. They are just as far eco-extremist.
Balance is definitely the key word! Sometimes it feels that “government” has gotten us in such a pickle,that we have little choices – we can either have clean air, water, and intact natural resources (which is the beauty of Maine that we all know and love), OR we have to accept something that compromises our values, because we have to pay all our taxes – property taxes, excise taxes, boat registrations, trailer registration, dog licenses, mandatory insurances, blah, blah, blah, and maybe if we’re lucky we can buy adequate food for our families!
Too lazy to grow food for your family? Maxed out your EBT card yet?
Surely you can’t be responding to me!
Don’t let your hate speech take over your mind.
Maine’s wilderness has long been preserved and protected by wealthy people; whether Rockefellers or the owners of rare and endangered lands; ‘the best of Maine’ was bought and saved by them.
Even Governor Percival Baxter; one of America’s leading conservationists and a Republican like T.R. and others; put Baxter State Park under private ownership to keep it away from the Government.
Without Stephan Phillips there would be no wilderness preserve along a good portion of Mooselookmeguntic lake and 11 of its islands.
Numerous estates are now run by trusts preserving them for future generations.
Besides trash talking about wealthy people who preserve the wilderness, what have you done of significance?
Hey, Molly, are you going to include the destruction of our mountains for the folly of industrial wind in your litany of threats? If not, you are a hypocrite like Sierra Club, Maine Audubon, and NRCM.
350 miles of uplands blasted away, leveled, and scalped to put up useless machines that are as tall as 45 story Boston skyscrapers are a worse impact than an east-west highway.
TruthinMaine – you should work on your delivery a bit. Yes. I would include industrial wind farms in my “litany of threats” if that’s how you want to characterize my comments. So, I guess that would then make me not qualify for your label of “hypocrite”. It’s amazing how little people can stick to the issues, and how quickly people are to make judgments and labels in this forum. I know full well the scale of destruction being brought upon our landscape. I simply didn’t do an exhaustive list. Now what does that make me? Lazy?
Aren’t they buying it from other private investors? Every time we oppose attempts to extend public ownership of the Maine Woods we underwrite the process, thus have no reason to fuss about it.
Are you talking about the THREE people protesting the highway, published in the mainstream media a short time ago? Do you ever search beyond what is published for the sole purpose of “cause and effect”?
Agreed. We don’t need a private highway. Bring back the trains!!!
Obviously you were not around in the 1960’s and early 1970’s when the air was barely breathable, and rivers were so polluted they caught fire. Without the enviro groups the quality of our air, rivers, lakes, and oceans would be disgusting. And actually, environmentalists have been around for centuries, Thoreau coming immediately to mind. You may want to reframe your comment to “thank goodness the major corporations that control Congress weren’t around until recently.” Hopefully, you will be around in 20,30, and 40 years from now to see the destruction they will have caused.
I think Mainers have seen the distruction these Enviros have caused our economy. They held our State and Working folks hostage. They also had help in Augusta from folks like Ed Muskie, Kenneth Curtis, Joe Brennan, Angus S. King Jr, John E. Baldacci and Democrats the last 50+ years. They controlled the agenda making huge profits off of taxpayer subsidies and handouts. While the Mainers got the short end of the stick not only in their wallets , also seeing their jobs leave because of these idiots. They also are holding us hostage on gasoline costs as well with not allowing drilling and other forms of fuels. While those of us get not only nailed at the pump with $ 3.70+ gas but we also are getting awful mileage and poor peformance including repair costs from this E-10 soon to be E-15 gasoline farce. It’s time for the Enviros to take a hike while the Mainers get this road built which we definitely need.
How many people did Thoreau employ? The US population has doubled since 1950. Please explain how visionaries, philanthropists, environmental extremists will help masses of people (the HUMAN species) survive. Please keep in mind, that while the population is constantly growing, industries are being shut down and there is a surge to preserve large tracts of land from the “human imprint”. Waiting for your answers ……
How many people did Thoreau employ? The question is how many people did corporations kill? The human species is going to be killed by the likes of people who want to cut the last tree, shoot the last moose, catch the last fish. The threat to the continuation of the species is not coming from enviros. Do us all a favor and show us some specifics when you write that we (environmentalists) are the ones imperiling the future. Here are some links countering your argument:
http://www.alternet.org/economy/148148/hightower%3A_is_death_the_price_of_having_a_job_in_some_corporations_it_seems_like_it/
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Corporate_Executives_Sentenced_to_Prison_for_Asbestos_Deaths__Could_it_Happen_in_US_120217
http://www.gits4u.com/envo/envo22.htm
Now, can you show me three links to where enviros have killed as many people? Didn’t think so.
These people, like yourself, are the ones who are making the planet uninhabitable. For a glimpse of the future, go to a country (Haiti and China come to mind) where there are few or no environmental laws. This is what you are wanting? Great, buy a plane ticket and move to where there are no redical enviros, where private enterprise has no fetters, where the government allows anything for progress.
Great spaces to live, but I notice you either have never heard of them since you prefer to stay at your keyboard and whine about how long it will take us to get to the Chinese/Hatian model of overpopulation and over exploitation.
Yeah, it would force the Green Shirts to get clean ones, they hate things unless there is crazked soil and gas in the water wells.
No matter which way you cut it, if it comes to jobs, building a highway is a short-term job for construction workers and anyway, ALL of the profits for the first 40 years go to Cianbro and Cianbro alone – not Maine’s people or Maine’s communities.
What I don’t understand is why more people aren’t debating why we couldn’t revamp the E-W railroad system instead of destroying natural beauty. It makes the point in the article that the Sierra Club proposes discussing a study showing how “revitalizing the [Maine Montreal and Atlantic Railway line that travels east-west across Maine to Canada] would create the same economic benefits as a highway without the harm.”
It seems simple to me: $2 billion to build a highway doesn’t make any sense if we can spend less to to hire / create jobs (if we have to have short term jobs, do one that saves money overall I’d say) by renovating a railway system that is already in place. It’d be upgrading of tracks, lines, etc – and it doesn’t destroy any public or private property in addition to the land it is already on. People want to see NEW jobs, MORE opportunities, and they ignore the evidence that we need to revamp our current options, because we can’t grow and consume exponentially!
It’s surprising that the Sierra Club “claims” to be concerned about private property, eminent domain and the economy of communities, particularly, when they are in full support of a 3.2 million acre National Park in the Maine Woods. I call this concern a “farce”. Their real concern is having the east-west highway interfere with Roxanne Quimby/RESTORE’s plans to shut down the Maine Woods to industry and traditional uses, while at the same time removing people from their lifelong homes and camps.
Wow, tell us more about how a National Park will “remove people from their homes.”
This park is a farce just like Roxanne Quimby is. Roxanne is now angered that she isn’t getting her way since Voters in the Millinocket, Patten, East Millinocket and other parts of Northern Maine have said No. She attacked Maine Citizen’s because they aren’t falling for her BS. They aren’t caving into her outrageous demands. The Park is DOA since it is opposed also by Maine Business Community, Sportsmen Groups, Maine Legislature , Gov. Paul LePage, Maine Congressional Delegation except Chellie Pingree-Sussman (No Surprise she is out of touch with Most Mainers). Even Congressman Mumbles Michaud was paying for it he along with Pingree-Sussman was getting subsidized by Quimby to push the park through without folks knowing it. But when Michaud got caught by Millinocket, East Millinocket Residents and Town Officials he had to change his position on this issue and side with the side who opposes the park. He could be in trouble this election because most folks are fed up with his horrible leadership and with him on this issue. The bottom line is this park isn’t happening while this road is about to be built , I say Build Baby Build and let the 2nd District finally start seeing change for the better.
Great, let us use the fine folks who object to anything but a paper mill for an example of economic development. They all went wild when Paul helped them find a buyer for the mill. How’s their economic plan working out?
People like yourself who firmly believe that the only way to the future is by doing the same things we did in the past are doomed to live in the past. Why should they try anything new when the past worked so well for them. So let’s just say No! to any new peoposals before they are thought out, and trust our future to corporate interests.
How’s that working for the residents of Millinocket?
Build the road? Sure, but use your tax money. I’d rather use my taxes to preserve the Northwoods. If we change our minds (as a state) in 100 years, the woods will still be there. If we build the E-W road, we’ll still be paying for it in 100 years, the woods will be subdivided into 10 acre parcels and what is left won’t sustain any paper mill anywhere. Unless we start cutting Poloquin’s tax-abated woods, of course.
You won’t see the words published in any mainstream media. Roxanne Quimby’s “sources” in the media field are protective of the “slips of tongue” presented by minions of her National Park cause who haven’t been briefed properly about public statements.
Just one (of many) example: May 3, 2012, at Lithgow Library in Augusta, a “Maine Woods National Park” presentation was made by Thomas Szelog, wildlife photographer, visionary.
http://www.mainewoodsnationalpark.com/
After the presentation Szelog was asked by a member of the audience “What will happen to over 20 thousand people who presently live or have property in the area of the proposed 3.2 million acre Park?” Szelog’s answer: “My grandmother traveled across the ocean to find work. When there is no work, people have to move. They will have to move from the area.”
The wealthy philanthropist (Quimby) has had the National Park vision for nearly 20 years.
She was a member of the the board of directors of RESTORE until less than a year ago. When it became obvious that the inhabitants of the Maine Woods became alarmed at the thought of their livelihoods and traditions being taken away, this is when Quimby removed her name from the board, and tried to promote the 70,000 acre “gift” to Maine as a National Park. After unpleasant protests and disdain from the actual residents of the Maine Woods area, she gave up the sham, and is now on a mission of gathering her support from nationwide extreme environmental groups, for the 3.2 million acre Park.
http://www.restore.org/Restore/mission.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBoT7lZnLno&feature=relmfu
Where do you get your “quotes”? Can you show where Szelog said the thing about his grandma?
Also, you claim 20,000 live or have propewrty in the proposed park. Since there was not even a real boundry proposed to show exactly where the park would go, isn’t that just a made up number?
A member of PMT was at the Szelog presentation in Augusta when that direct quote was spoken. Perhaps we should start filming at those so folks will really actually get the message. For the proposed park boundary visit the Restore website.
Yes, a video would be nice, because if the man said that, it is way over the top arrogant or so foolish and divisive that he should not be speaking in public.
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Watch the video to answer your question;
http://www.landrights.org/VideoGoodOfAll.htm
Wait a second. Has there been any suggestion that private landowners would be forced to surrender their land for a National Park? I believe the discussion has only been about private landowners GIVING their land for a national park. I think you’re making up your own facts.
I’m neutral on the National Park topic, but, it seems that the same people who are okay with Peter Vigue and friends seizing private property for their highway project are whining about private landowners practicing their private property rights in the case of a National Park. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
Why is it that people who scream the loudest about private property rights also seem to scream the loudest when they are inconvenienced by someone else practicing their own private property rights.
To give you the benefit of the doubt, outdoors4me, I will assume you are speaking of Quimby’s “gift” of 70,000 acres, of her privately owned land, to the Federal Gov for a National Park.
The people who actually live in the proposed Park area have had a long history with Roxanne Quimby’s land acquisitions. If you are not living in the immediate area, I can see why you might only be aware of the much publicized “gift” and nothing more. You are not alone. There are several who, for various reasons, are only aware of what the mainstream media sources will print.
I might suggest some other sources, deeper in, that may or may not help you understand, depending on your leanings and loyalties.
http://preservemainetraditions.com/unanswered-questions/
http://www.mainewoodscoalition.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugGv9nnzzHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBoT7lZnLno
Yeah, your sources are like wondering about if what a politician said was true, and then looking for the truth on a Dem. or Republican site. Preservemainetraditions is a thinly veiled trade group. My guess is that they get most of their money from Irving woodlands.
Ditto for the Maine woods coalition. Sort of like getting directions from a coyote on how to raise sheep.
The sources you trust have been owners of the North Maine Woods (NMW) for as long as there has been a State of Maine (or they bought it from them). They originally got a fuzzy title to the stumpage from their pal the gov. of Mass, and a clear title in the 1960s or 1970s. Just from what I have seen, they have not done the woods or the inhabitants any favors. If their motives are so pure, why is most of the population north of Bangor still mired in poverty? They have managed the woods for short term gains, never worrying about the future.
When something good for their bottom line comes along, they have no problem tearing up as much woods as they want. There are dams, swamps and stranded trains all over the woods that have been abandoned. Erosion has spoiled some of the good fishing brooks, airplane spraying of weed killers has wrecked the ecology. All for what? For traditional uses, they would have you believe. Well, the only tradition they want is the tradition of outsiders living well (the Pingree heirs, they Irving heirs, etc) while the locals live hand to mouth.
Well, Acountian, you know what they say about people who assume… Your ignorance about PreserveMaineTraditions is showing.
http://preservemainetraditions.com/press-release/
We are NOT a “thinly veiled trade group”, which if you took the time to do a little research rather than come up with an opinion out of thin air, you would be able to inform yourself. Nor, does the group get any money from Irving woodlands, so there you go for “ass-uming” about something you know nothing about. Same goes for the Maine Woods Coalition. You may have your opinion of these groups, but you do not define them and obviously are quite ignorant about them.We have lived here for generations and if what we have here is as “ruined” as you say, why do so many call the area a gem? Why, because we have already preserved it for what it is and have made a living here while doing so. Once again, you speak as if you know so much about this area and what has transpired here for generations, but all I hear is a whole lot of misinformed ignorance. Cities and towns all over the state and the country have been having tough times and this area is no different. For many years we were the ones who paid the taxes in, and I didn’t hear anyone complaining about this area paying in. Now, we are the ones in need and trying to recover and all we get is a whole lot of bashing from people who benefited from “our share” for years. Millinocket, East and Medway are great towns and don’t deserve the bashing this area gets on BDN. Nobody is looking for a handout, this area needed support to recover and that we shall without a national park or RESTORE or Sierra Club trying to push us back or take over!
Well said, MaineKat.
As a member of Preserve Maine Traditiions that hasnt been paid yet could someone send me my Irving bonus check.
Why is it so hard to find who makes and finances the groups? Do you have any links to this info?
So you have lived there for generations. My ancestors were living in what came to be Aroostook County by the time the first census was taken in the early 1800s, but I don’t know why that is relevant. An E-W highway makes no economic sense. Furthermore, the taxes paid by the northern 1/3 of the state of Maine does not pay for the services recieved. In other words, it is equivalent to living on the dole for 200 years. I’m not bashing that, because if the area is not wealthy, you can’t get blood from a turnip. The point is, “our share” is not a net plus. So thinking that the road is “due” us is not fact based.
So, although I may be ignorant of the backers of the groups you mention, maybe if they were a little more transparent, maybe if one could do a search and find out who they are, there would be less ignorance.
It may be hard to believe Acountian but the all volunteer group of PMT has done all of their work because of dedication to something they believe strongly in. No Irving money, no trade groups. We are just sick and tired of Quimby’s lies.
In this day when everyone wants and waits for someone else to do it for them I am proud to be a member of a group of people from the right and left, Republican and Democrat, young and old (Thats a lie we are all over 40 but my last name is Young so it makes it kind of true) Please look at our website, check out Evolution of a Farce.. The sources are listed. I will send you the back up docuentation if you still need more authenticatioin.
You may find that we have similar goals. I to would love to see the land protected. But what does that mean. To me it would be great to have pristine lakes with forest land that is productive for the economy. Many companies are moveing in that direction with forestry easments that prohibit housing development but keep the woods in prodution. State laws have vastly improved our water resources the quality today is a vast difference from 30 years
Other groups though want to shut down the woods and restore it to some idyllic bambi forset. The problem is people live there and depend on this land for their livelihoods. I know that this is an inconvenient truth but a park is not going to bring about union jobs and wages. It will bring about summer service jobs that keep high school kids and college kids busy but no real wages for raising families.
Although I am pro-park, I also see it as a last resort. I use the woods. I trapped until the price of beaver got so low it wasn’t worth putting 2 dollar gas in the sled to go out and run the trap line (1970s). But I have also seen the woods go from a place where horses were used extensively (until the early 60s) to an area where it more closely resembles an industrial site than a managed woodland. With the rapid turnover of ownership, every new owner was only trying to maximize the profit as fast as possible. The woods were basically stripped to send the profits to out of staters.
So given the choice between the continuation of the current policies and permanent protection, I have chosen the latter route. I know it isn’t full of bambis, lord only knows where the deer have gone, but at the same time, going to places that were clear streams from the time of my father and seeing it turn into bark lined streams with no fish makes me opt for something to shake up the system. If it takes Roxanne, that is fine with me. Leaving it to IP and Irving isn’t working out real good.
The probelm with Quimby’s proposal is that she is accelerating the very thing she rails against. Foreset mangaers in the past have had to look at short term and long term value of the property.
Now with the Quimby dynamic they can forget about the long term, undertake liquidatioin harvesting and still get top dollar for land that would have had no value for forestry because of what they had just done. They get to maximize profits for wood that would have been left to mature and take $$ from a land sale at above the going rates. Roxanne in turn gets to claim that she saved land that was devasted but this would not have happened unless she was there to pay top dollar. Call it the Quimby effect.
Dont believe me call the Maine Forest Service or talk to the Maine Forest Product Council. Better yet ask the NRCM and the Sierra club. Ask how they justify this?
The thought of turning over 220 miles of Maine wilderness to Cianbro would make a level headed person sick. I will donate to the Sierra Club in hopes they can stop the project. We should not give away the farm to create temporary construction jobs.
And the Sierra Club will create nothing, but trouble
And how many of those jobs would be Maine jobs. People in Maine have a short memory I guess. No one remembers the big to do over Cianbro fiddling fair wage rules to hire Canadian rather than local workers?
http://www.portlandphoenix.com/features/top/documents/02723930.asp
Under the highway privatization statute which Cianbro and other contrcators wrote and passsed under the radar in 2010 with no public notice, there are no fair wage requirements. This project would give Cianbro 50 years of exclusive control over the design construction and maintenance of this roadway, including collection of all tolls and fees on the utility corridor ,free of the limittaion of Davis Bacon and other fair wage requirements.
Do you think Mainers will get any of these jobs?
And people wonder why “Vigue’s Commando’s’ are trying so hard to keep these ‘little’ fact’s out of the press release’s and public document’s. Keep digging Lindsay. The only way that Mainer’s are going to see THE WHOLE PICTURE is when all of the fact’s, not just what Cianbro think’s is good, are out there for everyone to see.
And the fact that you found it also makes me wonder why Paulie and Company couldn’t, or wouldn’t, put this stuff out there. Someone either isin’t doing their Due Dilligence or trying to hide something a lot more damaging to the E-W Highway’s supposed potential than simple stupid. Either way there is something VERY WRONG HERE that needs to be seen by everyone before any money, much less earth, is moved.
Read the feasibility study Mike and you will get even more a sense of exactly what is wrong here.
Interestingly the report ( see link I posted above ) was apparently based on a “partnership” with Louis Berger a firm with a reputation for negotiating highly polarized siutaions and respoonsbly maaging environmental risks. Louis Berger Associates specifically recommended to Vigue a sort of “concept plan approach” where before hand all the difficult details are pre negotited with stake holders.
As the NYDOT Highway design and construction statutes in the Adirondack Park show, highways, jbs, economic development and environemntal protection are not in competition with one another..It just takes a little imagination, a big commitment, and a great deal of wisdom and intelligence.
The “conncept plan ” approach is used routinely these days by sophisticated planning agencies to deal with polarities and conflicts. It is actually a technique LURC tried to use in Plum Creek, It is exactly what is needed here as it calls for complete transparecy and good faith negotiation.
Vigue is doing exactly the opposite. He is keeping all of the critical details secret ( with complete support and cover from MDOT) and jjsyy trying to glad hand his way around Mainne aparently relying on his personal good will ( does he actually have that in Maine communities) and showing his power point show over and over full of flase promises and weak on the critical details that matter to stake holders. A distinguished and well known member of the press with press credentials and prior approval to be at the big celebratory luncheon at the Seator a while back was asked to leave by security and escorted out..bow tie & all!!!
All Mainers should rise up and insist that DOT initiate a “concept planning” aproach in which there is complete truth and transparency, good faith negotaitions with all stakeholders and binding commitments as the work product.
Bu the way, we could use eveyone’s help in figurimg out who Kennebec West Forrest LLC’s parent is ? When we know that we will know an awful lot more about what this project is really all about annd whose interests it serves.
It is important to note that in 2010 when this highway privataization bill was passed under the radar, the East West Highway was not on the list of priority corridor projects on the January 2010 private version of that bill that applied only to those listed projects. McDonald’s pet project also did not make the list so based on a legsilative analysts note that a full blown generalized statute would be neessary to include other non priority projects, the secret under the radar Highway Privatization staute was born and passed with a huge shepherding from Dennis Damon.
My point? That it was precisley because the E/W highway as promoted by Vigue in his 2008 feasibility study submitted to MDOT was nnot deemed a high priority corridor project for Maine. So why is MDOT facilitating it now? Why was our Commissioner of DOT at the St. Stephens celebration. Why is MDOT helping keep this veil pf screcy around this project and making no commitments to “we the people”?
Surprise, Surprise,let them go back to the Sierra Nevada’s
I’m glad to see the Sierra Club get on board, but still wish that they were focusing more locally. We’ve been told for so long that we need something from away to save us. More crap to buy from somewhere else to make us happy. Just look at the old grange halls to see how much workmanship and care people put into their communities. What’s happened? Corporations taking our money away and telling us that we need them for jobs. Well, we don’t. We can produce everything we need here, we can take the time to grow good food, build beautiful things, and raise our kids with the gratification that they love where they live. It is sad to see people think this kind of highway will help them because developers with deep pockets have brainwashed them for so long. Really, that is even what we learn in school. It takes being very critical to see that they’re sneaking one over, that and the fact that most folks are poor and unhappy. If you really look back at the history, you’ll see that we’ve been distracted from our actual needs and happiness for a long time, so that others can make money off of our backs. I’m all for a thriving economy. It’s not going to happen for the majority of us by trying to compete with China. Time to love Maine and what we’re capable of here. Wouldn’t you love to spend time doing what you really want? Well, let’s do it!
I find your perspective on this issue quite interesting. In some ways, perhaps even admirable. Many folks such as yourself are perfectly happy living like the Amish. I have no problem with that. If you can make it work, my hat’s off to you.
You say that “most folks are poor and unhappy”. Where we disagree is the reason why. My contention is that people in central, northern and downeast Maine have been denied, ruled and regulated out of business. It would seem that you believe greedy corporations are to blame. Whatever the reason, people are poor and unhappy. As they say, money doesn’t buy happiness but it certainly has the potential to buy stability and peace of mind. Neither of which is abundant in those areas.
I believe that there is room in this state for people who love a simple lifestyle AND people who want an opportunity for something more. The issue is that the enviro’s want to foist this simple lifestyle on everyone by not allowing anything to be planned, constructed and maintained without the type of stonewalling that would make the most ardent investor run to a more forgiving region.
Once the E/W Highway is built, there will still be room for both and perhaps the folks that WANT opportunity just might be able to CHOOSE that lifestyle instead of just being ” poor and unhappy”. Just as you have been fortunate enough to choose your type of lifestyle, so too should those who may want something more.
Steve, wih all due respect, before you go hooting the benefit’s of the road, and I am all for responsible and profitable development, make sure you have ALL THE INFORMATION ON THIS, and make your choice based on it, not just what Cianbro and Company give you to believe or read. Making a decision like this based on half truth’s and assumptions (remember the old saying about making an Axx-U-ME ?) can be unalterable later on. It’s not like a divorce where you can go and try again. Once the earth is moved, it’s moved and no amount of ‘Aw SxxT !’ is gonna make it any better or bring it back. Remember the ‘Round to it’ saying ? Here it is, for real !
Lindsay’s finding the fact that Cianbro is going to have 100 % control over the entire road, with no State Authority or oversight for the next 50 YEARS , is by itself almost a mandatory reason for the State Legislature to go back into a Special Session, regardless of Paulie and the GOP’rs, and ask themselves some serious and soul-searching question’s, among them who ‘bulldozed’ the Legislature with this pile of moosepoop and sprayed Chanel # 5 on it to make it pretty when it isin’t ? Provided Lindsay’s research is accurate, this Act means that Cianbro is going to, once the Highway is ever built, going to be the one’s to set the speed limit’s, set the weight limit’s and, in case they have forgotten, be the one’s responsible for the various emergency services needed on this road when the inevitable happens. And just in case anyone of Vigue’s commando’s has forgotten, when you take political control, which is what this Highway Act did for them, over this type of project you also have the responsibility for it in toto. That means no Maine DOT support, no Maine State Police or Sheriff’s response, no Fire or EMS Services, period ! That means if it’s needed, and with the 1st crash it’s gonna be required, then Cianbro is gonna have to pay for it ’cause you can literally bet the farm that if Cianbro calls any of the County’s or the State for assistance that with that assistance is gonna be, attached, a formal Bill for Reimbursement for Services included. Cianbro wants ‘in’, fine. Then they have to put their ‘hole card’ in right from jump street 1. It’s called assumption of investment risk and Due Dilligence requirement’s. If Cianbro hasn’t figured this out by now then I suggest that Cianbro’s Board of Director’s start asking themselves just what Vigue has gotten them into ‘ cause from here on in it only gets more political and expensive. Add the current public attitude toward business’s running government function’s and the political, not to mention legislative, picture come this November gets down right scary.
It also means that in the event of a oil spill, from say an underground pipeline that they ‘kind’a’ bury under the Highway, they and only they, are gonna be the one’s solely responsible for the entire cleanup mess, including all costs and Federal penalties. And with the BP mess still fresh in everyone’s mind, does Cianbro really want to take that gamble ? They do and they are gonna be the 1st target of a Federal Subpoena when it comes time to do the inevitable investigation. BP has 2 of it’s very Senior Engineer’s, both responsible for the Transocean platform mess, now sitting in jail because they hid the truth of these platform’s operating danger’s and lack of adequate planning from both their company and the public, namely the Interior Dept. The DOI issue has been fixed. But I’d hate to be the 1st one that try’s that system and gets caught being ‘cute’ with the rules and Agreement’s.
Mike the “deal” on Maine’s ill gotten highway privatization statute is laid out in the statute itself
Title 23 Section 4251. Under the statute the “applicant” ( and according to DOT Cianbro and no one else is an applicant at this time) has control of he road for 40 years and receives all tolls. The statute also has no provisions for public hearings or public input. The applicant gets all tolls for the 50 years. The applicants designs andbuilds. The applicant does all mainetneace, The state can offer emeinent domain. The state can kick in up to 50% of funding.
Cianbro was a principal author of the statute which applies anywhere in Maine to any project..not just to the E/W highway.
There was no public notice. No public input. Completely under the radar.
A first goal should be to repeal this staute asap and I am trying to organize an effort in that direction right now.
“State can offer”, “The State kick in”. Please Lindsay, do you really think that the State of Maine is gonna, for the next 2 years, do anything but roll over and be Paulie’s ‘girlfriend’ ? Cianbro got this passed with a Democratic House and Senate. Now they have Paulie and Company, and adding in the Tea Party, a majority in both House’s. This is one that I just can’t see being overiden short of both House’s ‘cinching up’ whatever common sense and moral principles they have and repealing this blatent bribe by such an overwhelming majority that LePage would not dare to even hint at a veto. The really big question is can they ?
Mike you don’t think that when the public understands that we have a privatization statute there will be moral outrage and backlash? I agree the culture of the legisilature can’t be coubted on for anything but with enough public pressure they will have no choice. It is an election year.
I wouldn’t call it a blatant bribe, by the way…more a happy coincidence for Cianbro that McDonald wanted the statute so his pet project would be eligible. Cianbro may have been thinking along the same lines as the E/W highway wasn’t on the priority corridor list either so it was maybe mor elike a happy coincidence for them when the Governor ( Baldacci) asked DOT to create generalized statutory language .
Still the idea of privatizing Ft Knox caused quite abig to do. I don’t think Mainers will be happy to undersand that a bill written by contractors was passed with no public notice and no public input to privatize Maine’s highways.
No Lindsay, Call it for what it is. Bribe is a dirty word but one that leaves no room for doubt. Once the whole of this is looked at, well, there really won’t be any room for doubt.
Mike, perhaps you are in possession of information I do not have.
I have been involved in only a few legislative issues over a few months that are about corporate influence peddling; trojan horses that promise jobs and public benefits but are really about serving corporate interests, mostly of Canadian and non-Maine companies like Nestle’s or agenda driven initaives of the Koch Brothers.
My issues (mining regs, ew hway, regulatory takings lurc reform, searsport tank) have exposed me to the workings and culture of several of the joint committees.
What I see is a long established culture that actually believes handing it on a plate to any company that wants to come here is actually good for Maine and good for Maine communities. They seem believe what corporations tell them. There’s no discernment, no independent knowledge base, no attempt on the part of Committee members to gather relevant background on any issue before them. Legislators rely on the Committee’s ( why they would with this history I have no idea) and a bill like this one with a unanimous Committtee vote will have no questions and no debate on the floor and just sail through.
That’s what happened here.
No one had ever discussed the possibility of privatizing Maine’s Highways..I doubt if many legislators who voted yes on the floor or many committee mebers even know now what that means, what its history is in America, what kind of issues it presents.
The first version of this bill was in January 2010 and established a list of high priority corridors authorizing public private partnerships as a means of funding those projects. Neither the East West Highway nor McDonalds project was on that list. A legislative Analysts note said that regular statutory language would be neede to cover other projects. ( I can send you the full legislative history from the Legislative library if you like in PDF)
Vigue’s windfall $35 mill in federal income in 2007 was on a project in Virginia, a major and early user of PPP’s, (privatized highways).Cianbro may have been working on a PPP highway and Vigue may be one person who actually understood what privatization of highways is and that there is a special category of federal funds, TIFIA, where Federal bonds can be assigned to the developer or subordinate to private debt. Also according to Nina Fsher, DOT Consituent Liaison, there had been some discussion and research on PPP’s within DOT but with no commitment to seek legislation.
I don’t know the details beyond that.
Since then Cianbro has not had any significant Federal contracts and I am wondering why and whether that is related to their labor policies. Cianbro has lost access to money that used to flow their way, maybe because there is less for everyone..they’ve suffered some blows. I think Vigue is just passionate about the highway because it would smoothe out Cianbros cash flow and “feed the family” as he says of his employees for 50 years.
I am with you 100%..wish I could give you 100 Likes!!!
Of course they oppose it. They oppose anything that will bring prosperity to Maine. The useless windmills they support since they will bring no prosperity. Bunch of lousy hypocrites.
They oppose anything that they think will help them raise money to pay their own fat salaries. Sierra, Audubon and here in Maine, NRCM, have all degenerated into shameless rackets.
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” ― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements
Patten Pete
It is a false premise that a major toll road cannnot be reconciled with due consideration for the enviornmental issues there. A great model for this that has been working for years is NYS Dot’s Highway statute and regs for the Adirondack Park.
Vigue partners are looking there though..they are not looking towards a process in which there could be both a toll road and a resolutionn of enviornmental issues. They and what he refer sto as his “Canadian Partners” are looking to the State of Maine to help them avoid accountability to these issues.
Read the report, Pete..Vigue himself in the report describes the environemntal issues here as hige annd inevitably involving the biggest mitigation program in U.S. history..he gets exactly that what he wants to do the way he wants to do it are up against not just the Sierra Club, Defending Maine Water, Natural Resources Council of Maine or Mrs. Quimby but decades of environemntal regulations still in place at the federal level which will come into play here.
There is a reconciliation possible through design and engineering ingenuity that I ca see in the report Louis Berger briefed Vigue thoroughly on. Vigue just dosn’t like having to factor in the extra costs of that reconciliation as it may mean the total costs of the project is too high to be feasible.
The fastest growing comoanies in the world today are “green companies”..more new jobs are and will be created in green companies in the coming decades. Maine is just the a taraget of the old regime who have too much invested in disreagrd for the envionmnet to retool how they do business. We are target because we have weak laws and regulations and an unsoohpisticated state government system..you know like the bannana republics who have woken up and thrwon them all out.
The old regime is falling away. It’s reign is finished. Maine’s future and Maine’s growth is in green technology and the creation of green building components..in synergy between the enviornment and industry..using natural resources to generate free and endlessly renwable power..using natural resources and naturalprocesses to move product at high speed. Caving in to the old regime will get Maine no where.
You are totally delusional if you believe that the future of Maine lies in “free and endlessly renwable power”, which is a thinly veiled reference to wind power. What kind of state will we have when hundreds of miles of ridges are covered with thousands of useless wind turbines as tall as 45 story Boston skyscrapers? Wind is not free, as even with unduly high (per MWH) subsidies and Enron-inspired RECs, a $4-5 million turbines will never pay for itself. Yes, it is endlessly renewable, when the wind actually blows, which isn’t enough to generate more than 25% capacity factor.
Truth In Maine,
I think we are on the same page.
I apologize for not being clear on my point. My point, or rather, my concern, which is that State policy thinks and acts in one size fits all units for energy and for economic development. I was responding to Future isLocal whose post held up a vision of bottom up instead of top down policy.
One type of energy, windpower for example, may not fit everywhere and I agree that planting turbines everywhere is a horrific vision. Tide power and wave action may work for some communities, solar power for others. Communities with mills may be able to use the biomass of their own waste for heat etc.
My point was against one size fits all state policies and for a local community based model of both economic growth and energy.
This highway will bring prosperity? Can you list some of the prosperity-izing things it will bring?
Well, here is one reason the corporate interests are wanting the road. This is from a court case in 2010. I think the corporations already know exactly where the road will go since they are willing to sell the road for 353 million:
David C. Hooper, ECHO’s Vice President as well as an employee of International Paper, indicated in his affidavit that the Easement Corridor may be the site for a portion of a future east-west toll road in Maine, and he estimated that the economic impact for ECHO from this toll road could be over $353 million.
Note that there is no word on how it will help any Mainers, only that ECHO and IP stand to gain 353 million.
Acountian..did you pick that up out of the court case involving maritimes & northeast pipeline? Can you provide a cite for that? That is the first confirmation of what I have only been surmising: that ECHO Energy Corridor LLC was a direct partner in this..I saw that the ECHO Energy Corridor LLC provided specifically for and specifically mentioned a possible toll Rd. I dodn’t notice in my research nay reference to the $353 million benefit it will derive if the E/W Hway is approved.
I found this reference :
http://www.judicialview.com/Court-Cases/Property/Pipeline-Company-Asserts-Rights-Over-Maintenance-Road/40/11202
but to see the whole report you have to pay..the part that isnot visible has the $353 million reference.
It was from that case, by the way that I got the whole history of the Stud Mill Rd. and was able to identify Kennebec West Forest LLC as owner of the land under it.
Echo was created when International Paper sold the land to newly created Kennebec West Forest LLC. in 2004. That 2000′ corridor is its only business as far as I know.
Do you happen to know who Kennebec West Forest LLC ‘s parent company is? That s key here..it will make all of us gasp when we find out, I am sure…and we will.very very very soon.
Thanks for this fabulous piece of the puzzle.
Yes, from that from the court case.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1523725.html
The 353 million is from ftnote 6
Hi Accountian,
Actually it was in the court case from which I learned the history of the East West Highway and the identity of the owner, Kenebec West LLC
.http://courtlistener.com/ca1/Ks3/maritimes-northeast-pipeline-v-echo-easement/
” David C. Hooper, ECHO’s Vice President as well as an employee
of International Paper, indicated in his affidavit that the
Easement Corridor may be the site for a portion of a future east-
west toll road in Maine, and he estimated that the economic impact
for ECHO from this toll road could be over $353 million”
This is May 2004.
It is very interesting especially in the context of the issue in that case..that Keebec West Forest LLC, owner of the land under the Stdmill but with no control at all of the road or easeement had granted Maritimes & Northeast permission to use the Stud Mill to access the piepline being installed on an easement garnted by Kenebec.
Obviosuly no investor nor the state of Maine would invest $2 billion on the basis of an easement that can’t convey full title so Kennebec EaWest Forest LLC, as owner of the land under the Stu Mill would have would have to also be a partner.
Raises lots of interesting questions and legal and constiutional issues about whether and how this could ever be done under Maine’s ill gottenn highway privatization statute.. Echo would have to give up its easement to the State and Kenebec would ahave to sell its interest outright.
Makes me wonder how we could even spend $300,000 of public money on the E/W feasibiity study without resolving this.
The Sierra Club has just shown themselves to be huge hypocrites. Without even knowing details of this project, they are condemning it and vowing to stop it. Yet the most environmentally destructive impact on Maine at this time is promoted by the same Sierra Club. They are a key group behind the proliferation of sprawling industrial wind sites. They are responsible for a law that promotes blasting away our uplands, leveling them, scalping them, to put up useless machines as tall as 45 story Boston skyscrapers.
Strike out “the proposed highway” and replace it with WIND Projects for this quote: “would devastate Maine communities, environment and private property owners without any real benefit to Maine itself” Sierra Club, you are hypocrites!
Further in the article, take this quote and add WIND Projects to “harm to waterways, water quality, critical habitat and threatened and endangered species; private property and eminent domain; local communities’ environment and economies; and public recreational lands”. What Sierra Club condemns as the evil ramifications of the proposed highway are EXACTLY the same things that happen with the industrial wind sites they propose. Sierra Club, you are hypocrites!
This post by TruthinMaine should be the number the one post – and the headline should be “Sierra Club hypocritical in opposing east-west highway in Maine !
Painful Disclosure: I supported the Sierra Club in the 70’s and 80’s until I realized that they became political tools of the democrats similar to NOW and Planned Parenthood.
New Headline:
Sierra Club Opposses people living in, and visiting Maine!
“Sierra Club opposes people living” is probably more accurate.
No facts, just hyperbole. Figures. And you have a bunch of bobble heads agreeing with your rediculous statement. No wonder we are where we are in this country. Cranks at home with an internet connection but nothing to say.
And your fact-filled reply without any hyperbole is not rediculous at all.
Mr Mil0 Crabtree. You were responding to a news article, with no facts, just bs and trite slogans you picked up somewhere and repeated like a myna bird. I was responding to a myna bird with a keyboard. See the difference?
If the Sierra Club is against it, I’m all for it!
What I find most interesting is that the Sierra Club, and the rest of us also, are having a monumental problem getting any information on this project at all besides a bunch of press release’s, all having Vigue’s fingerprint’s all over them. If this project is so important, and ‘clearly needed’, as both LePage and Vigue claim, then where’s the proof that backs up their claims and statement’s ? When all that’s out there as proof is press release’s and self-serving statement’s and estimate’s by the same people making these same statement’s then we had ALL better wake up and start smelling the coffee, no matter how strong or nasty it is. The mere fact that LePage and Vigue are in lock-step should give us all serious reason to stop, step back and take a real good, ‘Devil’s’ Advocate’ look at this before it goes any further.
Am I oppossed to Maine developing ? Not at all. But once that road is chosen and we all start down it we had all better be prepared for whatever is coming ’cause once you head down it, well, it’s not pretty when and if you realize that you got ‘snookered’. It costs even more to correct. Could Maine use such an E-W Highway for development ? Very much so. But it has to be done the right way, thru deliberate and objective study driven by a reason, not a bunch of screaming chicken’s looking to scalp the public’s trust in the race for a bigger splash. Done correctly this type of road could do a lot for Maine. Done the wrong way, in haste and with no regard for the State, it’s citizen’s, it’s business’s (I have no where seen or heard any of Maine’s Small Busness Association’s step up on this one !), this road could turn Maine into an extension of the Jersey Turnpike. Maine deserves better than that and it’s up to all of us to demand that our State Government do a whole lot better than caving into a supposedly ‘beneficial business development’ that does nothing but tear up the State and leave a mess behind.
And one final note, if I may. Given that this road is running E-W, just where does the State stand on this road being used for the transporting of the Bald Mountain mining material ? Since Irving already has the old MMA line’s capacity over 80 % contracted for, how is the ore, or will it ever be, going to moved to the processor’s and smelter’s for processing ? You folk’s want a good look at what a mining operation does to the road’s, have a good long look at the road’s in West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Wyoming. Does anyone really believe that the supposed toll’s are really going to keep up with the maintenance funding requirement’s ? Even the Maine DOT doesn’t want to go near that one.
Mike as always, wise well reasoned and right to the heart of the issues.
I too am alarmed at the complete lack of trasparency on this project and especially DOT’s shadowy role in all of this..after all they represeent us, not Vigue. It is unimaginable that eniugh is known and apparently agreed to by DOT for Maine taxpayers to be able to do a banakable feasibility study. How can it be ‘banakable” when the egineering annd design issues presented by this complex enviornment of headwaters, lakes, rivers and streams on which the whole state ultimately relies haven’t even been worked out and agreed to. Even the RFP on the study is very vague and the key information provided to bidders is not publicly available.
I agree completely that the utility corridor and how it is used and what other hazardous materials Canadians may want to move from the maritimes to Quebec is what we really have to keep our eye on.
We recently figured out that when Vigue says landowners along the route fully support this project he is speaking of two: Kennebec West Forrest LLC who own the land under which the Stud Mill road runs for its entire lenfth as well as all the land under annd around the IP road in the west and Echo Energy Corridor LLC , a subsidiary of International Paper, who have an easement with exclusive control over a 2000’ wide corridor and theStud Mill rd for its entire length.
The E/W highway would join the two parcels Kenebec owns creating a huge multiplier effect on the value of each parcel and its possible uses and income as a E/W energy corridor.
We have not yet been able to determine who the parent company is for Kenebec which came into existence as a newly incorporated Delawate Corporation to prchase the Eastern Parcel from International Paper. It is refernced in several palces as “foreign corporation”, perhaps Canadaian as Vigue refers in his 2008 study ( see my post above) to his “Canadian Partners”
As a PPP under Maine’s secretly passed (2010) Highway Privatization Statute, according to McDonald’s written testimony on the record,written by Cianbro Maria Fuentes and the Maine Contractors Association, although the proposer would have absolute control from design through up to 50 years, it would still have all the rights and priveleges of a public road including no permitting requirements for any utility in the Right of Way and of course eminent domain and expedited permitting on enviornmental issues.
Also under the PPP the public is completely closed out of the process. No publc hearings. o public period. Nothing. That makes teh secrecy ad lack of trasparency now all the more alarming. We have to force transparency.
Everyone who can should attend every public session including those in Dover Foxcroft to support their demands for opennness and accountability.
The Sierra Club and most environmental groups are too opposed to any sort of development which would result in trees being cut down. Progress is needed in this State, especially in the area where the proposed highway would run. This is a no-brainer.
But they support useless wind power, with sprawling footprints that involve blasting away, leveling, and scalping ridgelines to erect 45 story tall machines whose fickle trickle of output is 25% of the nameplate capacity. Take a look at photos at http://www.windtaskforce.org to see what Sierra Club is pushing across Maine. They are hypocrites!
Read Vigue’s “strictly confidential ” 2008 feasibility report shared with MDOT and let yourself decide whether this road has even one thing to do with Maine as other than a connection for Canada.
http://issuu.com/thebostonphoenix/docs/2008—cianbro—east-west-highway-conceptual-feas/1
Maine is mentioned vaguely and only once or twice..once for its inconvenient rules on truck weights and truck length on Maine highways ( should parts of the road use Maine highways and once for how inconvenient and lengthy the permitting would be if Maine does not streamline for them and assign someone full time to that.
This is very very clearly a Canadian priority corridor..not a Maine or even a Federal Highway priority corridor. Unless we make sure it doesn’t happen, The Western leg, the leg the people of Dover Foxcroft are most affected by, provides a very convenient link for a new tar sands pipeline from Coburn Gore to Bangor to an existing Portland to Bangor pipeline recently acquired by Buckeye.
Under the privatization statute put in place under the radar with no public input or notice in April 2010 ( Title 23 Section 4251) , the use of the ROW would require no permit or hearings..it is automatic. We the public have no input to any part of the process. It is a matter of speak now or you will not have a chance to speak at all.
The report acknowledges the unprecedented environmnetal challenges of this project. I believe it acknolwdges tht it will the biggest wetlands and stream mitigation project in the history of the U.S. And yet for the hihest profit and economic feasibikity the stratgey isn’t a commitment to higher levels of engineering but to red tape cutting and a strong sell to the public in advance.
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Gadael,
I am so heartened that you have taken the time to take a look at the study and that you too see that it speaks for itself on what Vigue’s interests and priorities are. That is Vigue’s own product in Vigue’s own words.
Avid E/W supporters, like my friend & fellow blogger in this community, Dark Cat,should read it and see if they see any recogintion or promise at all there for them..for what they have taken on faith from Vigue.
nothing..
nothing about Maine
nothing about jobs for Mainers at fair wages
nothing about working in good faith and in transparency with Maine stakeholders to make this work for everyone and to bring real benefit to Maine.
I have spent a life time working with documents like Vigue’s “Strictly Confidential” 2008 feasibility concept plan. What it says is straight forward and clear. ” Hey, Maine DOT the Canadians have a priority corridor plan to be able to link their utilities and move their goods more easily from the Maritimes to Quebec. It’s a top priority for them. I can build this.. I want to build this and I need your help in these very specific ways to cut red tape and expedite permitting and maybe eminent domain might be helpful in those small stretches where Kennebec West Forest LLC doesn’t own the land..like around Dover Foxcroft”
It speaks for itself.
It speaks clearly.
This isn’t for or about Maine.
This sets Cianbro & Canadian Partners up for the next 50 years…all the work free of fair wage restrictions using all Canadian labor, complete control..all the tolls and all the corrdior utility fees for Vigue and his “Canadian partners” and under the PPP ( maine’s secretly passed Highway privatization statute) a guaranteed profit.so we .can raise tolls whenever needed with no hearings”.
Read Vigue’s own words and his priorities are perfectly clear in this “strictly confidential ” 2008 document.
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Go back to California
“State club members feel the proposed highway would devastate Maine communities, environment and private property owners without any real benefit to Maine itself, said Karen Woodsum of the Sierra Club Maine Woods Campaign.”
That sounds a lot like another Maine venture that’s short on public merit, but long on negative impacts and special interest gifting – mountaintop wind development. Except, the Sierra Club endorses that venture, presumably because it’s an obligatory part of any self-respecting environmental group’s agenda – not because it has any actual demonstrated value.
Sorry, Sierra Club, but your credibility is being tripped up by your hypocrisy.
“Sierra Club opposes east-west highway in Maine.” Have they ever actually liked a road?
Have any of these folks ever been to this area? Have they seen how bad it really is up there? Most folks live in pure poverty living on nothing but state aid. To have some group in which most members are very well off, come and say that this area doesn’t need economic help is just insulting.
Why haven’t they relocated to where the jobs are? Too many people sit in one place and wait for someone to bring them a job. I can guarantee you one thing, people who are sitting around waiting for a job to drop in their lap will still be doing it if a new highway is built. The problem isn’t a lack of development, it’s a lack of initiative.
Well that is just asinine. Why don’t starving people in Africa just come to the US and eat Mcdonalds?! Sure if you are a single person it is easier to just pick up and leave, but add in a family along with a house and it gets much more complicated. If you haven’t noticed the real estate market is garbage. Trying to sell a house is damn near impossible the further you get from 95. Not to mention it take a large nest egg to just pick up and leave.
Not one person blogging here is against prosperity for the north counties..I want that..I just don’t believe this roadway will bring that in way all.
“Saying he saw a chance for improved commerce between Maine and Canada, . . .”
Improved commerce between New Brunswick and Quebec, maybe.
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Except for those who live north of Augusta and like to work for a living but have no place that offers jobs.
Oh wait, I forgot Maine stops at Augusta.
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Every hear the phrase “Its about the journey, not the destination”? Just because the two points start and end in Canada doesn’t mean Maine doesn’t benefit. It’s like saying 95 only benefits Mass. and Canada or Route 2 only helps Maine and Vermont, but not NH.
A road like this will help maine import and export goods at a cheaper rate, thus improving business overall. More companies will utilize the road as a branching point for their business.
This road would help bring in more Canadian tourists and their money. Considering I see this as the main argument people use against big business in Maine I would think they would welcome this road.
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Well I don’t see anyone else trying to do anything to fix this state. Everyone complains about welfare and the state of the economy but no one has any ideas. This state was founded on industry and most of it has left. Go to any of these old mill towns and tell me what you see? Do you see a thriving community? No, you see drug use, crime, depression and a general lack of hope. The young people of this state are leaving it as fast as they can.
But Iguess we can just stick our collective heads in the sand and pretend like nothing is wrong.
BTW everything you said in your “argument” is based on pure conjecture and lack of understanding .
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BRAVO!!!
You people are a bunch of know nothing dweebs. Follow your Sierra Club back to California. Much of the highway would be built using an existing network of logging roads. We just want to add some pavement to keep the dust down.
Please describe the drive from First Machias Lake to Third Machias-just a basic overview…..Should be easy for someone like you that knows the existing network of logging roads.
Pretty dull and except for being nowhere – fairly blah – plus you’d ruin your front end. If you didn’t get lost.
See you know the area-I’m thinking atgr has never been there-but has an opinion about the fate of the territory. Have you seen the “phone booths” that sit on the high ground?
Vaguely rings a bell … but since there’s lots of environmental opposition, I’d expect the road will be built responsibly. I think that an interstate downeast would be great for Eastport/Lubec/Calais. Heck – 35 years ago I thought it would be built.
Has there been studies that Interstates in places like East Tennessee or West Virginia or Western VA have been bad for their area?
Actually, there are some studies. Seems that new people come in, build near the interstate, and a few service jobs follow. The old downtown (if there was one) slowly starves or relocates. Net effect? A few new jobs, lots of disruption, economy about where it started. Land prices near the exits go up, minimal effect a few miles away.
There are exceptions. Dollywood was/is big. Local crafters doing much better, many more jobs. But without something like a Dollywood, the biggest effect is the movement of stores to the exits away from the traditional towns.
that’s exactly right acountian!
Sir, when was the last time that you drove down I-81 or on I-40 ? One good drive,and seeing the number of closed up business’s and abandoned farm’s and home’s would answer your question. Drive up 79 on West Virginia and see just how ‘good’ the local road’s are faring when you get off the interstate. And if you want to see just what, and how bad, local roads can get, have a good look at Va State Route 58 from Western Virginia, east to Norfolk. The only one’s there that have been calling for a E-W Highway have been the coal company’s. The local’s know what’s gonna happen when this type of road is built. Do you hear them calling for it’s being built ? No, and your not going to. Even the VA DOT knows that this is a deadman’s issue once it’s touched. Even Va’s Governor knows it, and he’s a Republican ! Would this E-W Highway make it a better drive ?Sure. But is there such a demand and requirement for it that it overides common sense ? That Maine’s DOT and Governor are trying to hide their’s provides me with all the answer’s necessary.
Uhmmmm atgr..$2billion for 4 lanes etc. see Cianbro’s “strictly cofidential” the feasibility report I posted the link to. It will be the largest project in Maine’s history..IF it ever comes to pass.
One question is what will happen to the existing use by loggers and sportsmen. This isn’t Sierra club country.don’t think you’ll find many bird watchers or out of state toursits on the Stud Mill Rd..this the territory of woodsmen, guides, hunters, ATV’ers and snow mobilers. Very Local. Very North Country.
Lets see we can have wind power, tidal power neither of which are cost effective.. NO water power, No Neuclear power, No clean coal power even wood heating is a no now…so we dont need jobs and economic progress.
The real green people should be asking the country to follow China’s policy for birth control as people are the cause of all earthly problems!
What are you talking about? No nukes? Different story. Clean coal? That will arrive just before we get clean elections. Water power? Lots of it around, to the point some rivers are about dammed out.
So in your mind, subsidized oil is ok, but subsidized wind and solar are not. Subsidized (very, very subsidized) nuclear is ok but wind and sun are out. How do you pick your winners and losers?
subsidized oil is ok,
Be specific – what oil subsidies? Or are you misstating normal business deductions as subsidies?
How much revenue and fees does the government get from Wind and Solar?
How much revenue and fees does the government get from oil companies?
How much credit and funding guarantees do wind and solar companies get?
A link to some subsidies:
http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html?pagewanted=all
Also, there is the matter of drilling on public lands, the Feds will make the road for you at no cost.
Some of the leases in the Gulf of Mexico are tax free, given because the Republicans controlled all the branches of gov. for a while in the 1990s.
So, no, normal tax deductions are not the only form of subsidies given to gas and oil. And don’t forget the cost of providing protection to tankers in the Persian Gulf region. Having our armed forces protecting big oil is a subsidy.
How much does oil and gas payu when the air is polluted? When the ground is polluted? When the rivers are polluted from pipeline breaks? Another subsidy.
I could go on and on, but I know it is pointless to argue with somebody who thinks oil and gas are problem free industries that pay their way.
And I think this club is all for the devastation that industrial wind is doing to the state of Maine…but is against a road….hypocrites!
Nothing like yesterday’s solutions to tomorrow’s problems.
The SIERRA club cheered on passage of the offshore energy bill even though it approved eminent domain confiscation of on shore land for maintenance, operations launchs, and transmission corridors..I guess when it’s for wind turbines, it’s good; but a scenic highway, not so good!
Scenic highway? You think we are going to spend billions for a scenic highway? You need to read a little more before you pronounce this to be about opposing a scenic highway. How much scenery will they provide for a 50 dollar toll?
$50 toll, wow I guess I better start saving my pennies!
Where else is there a $50 toll for a road in the US? You can drive the entire Maine, Mass and NY toll road and not get to $50.
Anybody crossed the Hudson River recently?
Holland Tunnel – $12GWB – $12
Lincoln Tunnel – $12
Still not $50. But it is going into tone of the largest/busiest cities in the world.
There are no firm commitments from DOT or Vigue on what pricing would apply to private passenger autos.
The $50 to $125 was mentioned in the 2008 report but it is not a firm number. There will only be 6 exits they say so that is $10 to $20 to use it for even 30 miles.
Commercial trucks would pay $200 to $400 per trip. (that number also not firm)
One of the things we must force DOT to account on is a very specific promise on local user tolls and the tolls of private passenger maine cars in general.
http://www.cbbt.com/schedule.html
The above link is for the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel. Trucks pay 35 -40 dollars each way. This is for a bridge/tunnel system built and rebuilt since the 1950s or early 60s. Also, this is for a system that has an average of about 9700 vehicles crossing it every day.
The E-W road would have much less traffic. So I figure if it costs 12 bucks for a car to go one way on a 20 mile long bridge with 10,000 other vehicles sharing the cost, a 200 mile road with much less usage will result in higher tolls. Much higher tolls.
The reason I chose this bridge is because I have been across it, it was privately funded, and the reason for it being built was to facilitate traffic flow and bring development to Virginia’s Eastern Shore. Build it, was the cry, and good jobs will follow. It will bring development and improve things.
If you go down there, you will see that very little has changed a mile from the highway. No large scale industry, nothing to ease the taxes. Still farming corn and soybeans for the most part. The kids still leave and don’t come back. It has brought some residential development from retirees, but they rarely contribute to the tax base. Instead, having to hire more cops, more EMTs, more public officials means the taxes have gone up for the ones who got there before the bridge, not down as the builders of the bridge forecast.
I bet Old Lady Quimby will be putting out her anti-highway press release soon.
Yes, the South of Maine where incomes are higher, jobs are more available and education is treated as an asset.
It’s better to have no job and freeze in the dark in N. ME than to be like that. That is what you are saying. What a weird way to look at the world.
I am a born and bred Mainer and I am so sad to see so many of the comments in support of this highway. Many of the people who live in Maine – as I do – choose to continue to live there because of the beauty and wildness of a land that has not been destroyed (all of the construction along once-rural and now DISGUSTING looking Route 9 in Massachusetts between Boston and Worcester comes to mind…). Stephen King has made the comment that something he loves about Maine is how Mainers know how to keep their trees. Yes, we’re a heavily forested state – but every additional highway like the one proposed just destroys more and more of our natural resources and the beauty that so many Mainers expect to find in the place they call home.
I just can’t see – in ANY way – how a private toll highway that will connect Canada to Canada that will cut through some of Maine’s most beautiful scenic locations will benefit Maine in any way economically, and it will only damage it environmentally. Many of you are saying to let “real Mainers” get on with it, and get out the alien “enviros”. But I was born and raised here by a family that originally came to Deer Isle in the 1600s and has been in the Midcoast area since 1900. You wouldn’t be able to tell me that I’m not a Mainer, that I don’t have a right to say that this is MY state and I will not let some private company deface valuable, beautiful, natural land to make a freeway that Canada will use to ship other goods through Maine to other parts of Canada. Then again, I wouldn’t support it for any reason whatsoever, even if it were just to connect different parts of Maine to each other. It’s obscene and in no way could you argue that the human gain would be worth more than the environmental loss.
Your statement re-worked with a different beginning: Sprawling Industrial Wind Sites ” just destroy[s] more and more of our natural resources and the beauty that so many Mainers expect to find in the place they call home.” Now, do you agree with that or will you be as hypocritical as the Sierra Club which is pushing the destruction of 350 miles of Maine’s mountain ridges for the folly of wind?
And to someone who made the comment below about “three whole people” protesting the highway – I know three people who are from Maine and protest it and I just found out about this horrible highway proposal yesterday. So I’m willing to bet that it’s more on the order of tens of thousands of people who oppose it, more if more people knew about it.
I don’t understand why the anti-road people here so totally ignore the economics involved here. I grew up north of Bangor. If you went east, north, or west, you went to Canada. We have far more in common with our Canadian neighbors than the rest of the USA in my opinion. There are 2 million people in the Canadian Maritimes and 9 million in Quebec. St. John, NB & Sherbrooke, Quebec are the two Canadian cities at either end of the proposed highway and both metro areas are the size of our own Greater Portland. Halifax and Canso Strait in Nova Scotia are huge shipping ports. Doesn’t it make sense that better integration with our Canadian neighbors would bring a degree of economic development and spending to make the highway worthwhile?
Throughout New England, all highways run roughly north & south. An east-west route could make a difference economically to rural Maine. Again looking to the Canadians, many of their major highways are a combination of 2 lane & divided 4 lane roads, especially in environmentally sensitive areas. I know these lands really well and a sensitively designed highway to “fit” into the lay of the land could be done without much more impact than the honeycomb of existing logging roads and powerlines. Like it or not, moving people and moving cargo is never coming back to the railroads, and I am a huge fan of the economics of rail. It is just far slower and less convenient in meeting most shipping needs.
I believe the feasibility study, real trasparancy about plans needs to happen. The people in Maine need to be heard before final design decisions are made if the project is a go. If it is to be done, let’s do it in a world-class, environmentally responsible way.