BANGOR, Maine — Five months after the Occupy Bangor movement occupied Peirce Park and the Bangor Public Library grounds for almost a month, the library’s administration and board faced some tough questions during a City Council budget session.
After board member Norm Minsky and library director Barbara McDade finished a presentation for a $1,383,000 fiscal year 2013 budget to several Bangor city councilors at Thursday evening’s budget session in council chambers, Mayor Cary Weston had a couple of questions.
Weston, the council’s chairman, asked them to explain their decision not to bar members of Occupy Bangor from library grounds after hours from Oct. 29 until Dec. 4.
“It’s difficult sometimes to hear the library claim to be a city department with historical ties, following procedures and protocols and doing all it can to be part of the city conversation, and then making a decision like that which is contrary to our public policy which cost us time, money, aggravation and lost resources,” Weston said during the session.
Weston referred to city ordinances prohibiting events and people from staying on public park grounds after hours of operation. Occupy Bangor members camped out in Peirce Park, right next to the library, and the library grounds for more than a month despite ordinances barring their presence from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
“It’s just a very difficult decision to try to swallow. We have not been told why,” Weston said after the meeting. “The board’s never discussed it with us or explained it. This public forum was the first time I’ve seen the board and been provided the opportunity to actually ask that question.”
McDade said there were a couple of main reasons for the board’s decision.
“We felt that we had no policy that people couldn’t be on our grounds,” she said Monday. “We do let people on grounds when we’re closed because we have Wi-Fi and people like to use it who might have trouble accessing it in other parts of Bangor.”
Three members of the nine-member board — Norm Minsky, Dr. Franklin Bragg and Lee Chick — also attended Thursday’s session.
“We talked about it long and hard, but philosophically, we thought free speech was consistent with a library’s existence,” Bragg told the councilors. “It wasn’t unanimous, but finally we decided since we didn’t have an antecedent policy against this, we would come down on the side of free speech.”
Weston said while that was understandable, it drained city resources, including the time and productivity of City Hall staff and public safety and public works employees.
“If you’re going to be a part of the city and have a relationship with the city, then you should respect the city’s policies, especially since the taxpayers are funding more than 50 percent of their operational budget,” Weston said after the meeting. “I think respect of those policies is not too much to ask.”
McDade said 60 percent of library funding comes from the city. Most of the remaining funding stems from library endowment funds, with another $177,000 coming from the state to be the area’s research and reference center.
“The city and the library historically have a fantastic relationship,” Weston said. “The library provides tremendous value to our citizens and the city, and I think study after study shows having libraries adds to the economic and community value.”
But he went on to say it was the library’s significant funding commitment that made it important to get answers to his questions.
“The people of Bangor have elected us to make policy and budget decisions,” he said. “We have to be objective with the people’s money.”
Occupy Bangor campers, who numbered between 10 and 50 at various times throughout the month-long occupation, were asked to leave library property Dec. 2.
“When we finally decided we were at risk from a liability perspective, we decided to ask them to leave, and they did,” Bragg said.
Minsky said the majority of library users’ comments about the library’s handling of Occupy Bangor were favorable. McDade said while many library patrons didn’t agree with Occupy Bangor members, two-thirds of patrons said they supported the library’s decision to allow them to stay on its grounds.
When asked after Thursday’s meeting whether he was satisfied by the answers to his questions, Weston paused.
“I don’t think I found out any new info from the board’s answer to my question,” he said.
McDade said she hopes the issue doesn’t imperil library funding.
“I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re open to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” she said.
Weston said the handling of Occupy Bangor might affect library funding.
“There’s a good chance past behavior, past value, and quite honestly, past appreciation for the funds allocated to any entity, city or noncity, is always a factor in determining allocation of funds,” he said.
McDade said Monday that she and board members were surprised by Weston’s questions and comments.
“Obviously, I was surprised by his reaction,” she said. “I think Bangor came out of the whole Occupy thing very well.”
Weston defended his position.
“I think it’s fair to ask for explanation and fair to question the logic behind the decision,” he said. “This isn’t a public polling exercise. This is an objective decision as to whether we’re spending our taxpayers’ money the right way.”
As if we aren’t inundated with reasons to stay the heck out of downtown Bangor already. You’d think the business community would oppose the freeloading campers.
Freeloading what? The free wifi? The land of the Public Library? You can’t prove that they don’t or haven’t paid taxes.
I’ve been wondering about that every time someone cites the “drain on resources” or suchlike.
What drain? What resources? I’d walk by the library to work around 6 PM, and often on the way back after midnight, and I don’t recall seeing extra police, or extra parks crew, or extra anything-city-provided.
And before anyone cites the clean-up crew at the end, that would’ve been the same job if they’d just been there a week.
Don’t forget the porta-potty: http://www.bangorbytes.com/p/videos_11.html
As I recall Occupy Bangor rented the porta-potty and paid for it themselves.
Perhaps they are crying wolf about the resources eh?
Ask the city manager how much they spent on legal costs during the OWS episode.
Actually money was spent by those encamped. And, at a recent GA one of those campers suggested that the GA have an event where Occupiers brought, say $2, and spend it at one spot downtown each time the General Assembly meets. I personally as an Occupier have spent money in Bangor proper I would not have spent had I not been Occupying. So you see, you are wrong, wrong, wrong and your assumptions…. well, you know.
Freeloading? Everyone involved was either a full-time student, retired or a hard working American. The Occupiers actually spent a great deal of money in the city while they occupied. To my knowledge there was no added expenses to the city of Bangor. They were a peaceful bunch and caused no threat to society.
Not everyone that lives in Bangor agreed with the “Occupy Movement” but all of us that pay real estate taxes supported it whether we wanted to or not. That is why the City should not support the library or just vote to take it over.
It isn’t the cities to “just take over”, and Bangor is lucky to have such a great library system.
Post your address and I’ll personally send you the 35 cents that’s your share of your real estate taxes that go to support the library.
Neocons don’t use the library…
Conservatives donated money to the library to support the cause to educate liberals. So far, its been a total failure. Look at your post as an example of how far we need to go. Bottom line – it appears liberals don’t use the library. Isn’t it fun to skip the debate and insult one another?
My views aren’t simplistic enough to necessarily be labeled either “conservative” or “liberal”, but statistics show that conservatives, on average, tend to have lower levels of educational attainment than do liberals. Note that this says nothing about what areas liberals are educated in or whether their education is relevant to their positions on the most important issues. These statistics only show that those who self-report as conservatives are less likely to be educated beyond a basic high-school credential.
Love your post. To the point and clever.
Thats not the point but to a liberal thinker, it is.
What is your point ?
Don’t pretend you have one, other than to pull the same tired “liberal vs. conservative” anti-thought anti-solution atypical ranting…
Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill???? Cable Bill???? We are TAXED to death!
There is no proof that the city spent one cent during the Occupy movement other then when they sent their thugs through once and a while. I would love to see an itemized bill on what the city spent in association with the Occupiers. I think someone’s nose is growing.
You think the city should take over the library? So you are advocating an expansion of our government, and greater government control? Interesting!
I fully support the Occupy Movement here and everywhere else, but I can understand why those who enjoy rampant corruption on Wall Street would be offended.
Corruption and strong-arm tactics by those in power.
Cary, run again and you get my vote, several others too. Atta boy!
Cary Weston is not shy from asserting his conservative Republican pro-business views. Had Occupy Bangor been in support of corporate America, he’d never have raised these questions. Indeed, who paid for the tents, food, and entertainment after the voters approved the building of the new Bangor arena? Did the City of Bangor not contribute? I supported it, but lots of others did not. But because it had the crucial support of business leaders, it’s perfectly OK for taxpayer money to have paid for that celebration.
Exactly! That’s why I think MAYOR Weston is the BEST Mayor Bangor has had in like the last 80 or 90 years!
If only Bangor actually had a mayor. We haven’t had one since the early 1930s.
I was looking for this specific post – I knew it’d be on here. :)
I know Ryan, thus my 80 or 90 years comment. Just a little sarcasm. I am a fan of Mr. Weston though.
If the Bangor Public Library wants to remain ‘public’, it simply can’t play politics. Any group can protest on the park grounds from 6am to 10pm, but the Occupiers want to LIVE there. Would the Bangor Public Library allow a group of Tea Party protesters to live on the property? I think we all know the answer to that one, and that’s exactly why the Mayor Weston needs to continue asking such questions.
Mayor Weston presented a threat. He has control of the city budget. I don’t care how you look at it or twist it , it is a threat. Libraries are the strongest protecters of any part of the constitution in this country.. Librarians are true patriots.
I voted for Mayor Weston, I won’t vote for again if he persues this.
I’m all about free speech, and I would never try to hinder the Occupy movement on the basis of its message. But I’m not okay with publicly funded entities supporting political movements, are you? The First Amendment grants the freedom to assemble and protest but not to LIVE on public property.
Sit-ins have been a form of civil disobedience for ages. The library was simply furthering the free speech behind the movement. It wasn’t in support of the movement directly at all. If they’d been any other kind of movement, I’m sure the library would have supported them just the same.
They would have been just as incorrect. Allowing the encampment created a liability situation, and didn’t comply with city policy.
They didn’t support the movement, they just didn’t oppose them.
Actually, I do not think the library is ‘public’ property. If I recall reading the charter correctly it is owned by the library which is a non-profit entitity with its own governing board.
Well in that case- they don’t need public assistance. You can’t have it both ways when it comes to tax dollar support.
So your point is that any organization that is not public property, should not receive support from the city?? The list of groups, and organizations that receive support, financial or otherwise, is long. That allows them top run independently. Rethink your response.
True. The library can charge Bangor residents to use their services.
How about publicly funded entities controlled by private, unelected parties such as lobbyists?
Actually, Weston is not the mayor; his vote on the budget counts the same as the votes of the other city councilors.
Norm Minsky, Dr. Franklin Bragg and Lee Chick — also attended Thursday’s session. looks like weston brought a knife to a gunfight mentally speaking.
“Libraries are the strongest protecters of any part of the constitution in this country.. Librarians are true patriots.”
As a former Marine I can tell you that I’ve done more in 4 years and in 3 combat zones than Barbara McDade has done in her entire life to protect freedom and support the Constitution.
Libraries are great; your spelling and grammar makes it clear you should visit them more often. The city should and will continue to support them. However, they need to remain non-partisan and appreciate the City of Bangor’ laws and support.
Barbara McDade is paid by taxpayers.
Before you issue an uneducated retort about Council Chair Weston “getting paid,” please research the amount a City Councilor receives and whether or not we have a Mayor.
School is cool…stay enrolled, get informed, then get involved.
Peirce Park is NOT library property.
And no, we don’t know the answer to whether the library would allow tea party protesters to gather on its grounds.
The library didn’t allow them to stay on the property because they agreed with THEM. They did it because they support democracy and free speech. If the tea party people are down for sleeping in tents for a month to spread their political message, I’m sure the library would have let them as well.
The point is moot now though. They’ll probably not do it again because of the liability issue and the apparent threats from their biggest investor.
The Koch crowd has had all winter to coerce and instruct the police,media etc. nationwide so the people will not be able to speak and demonstrate freely this spring and summer.Watch.
That’s correct – The Soros crowd has had all winter to coerce and instruct the hoodlums , thugs, Acorn etc. nationwide so the people will not be able to speak and
demonstrate freely this spring and summer. Watch.
You seem to forget the fact the the library allowed them to stay there.
It was the City that removed them, not the library. Let’s make that clear .
A library is open to all interested user’s, it is NOT what you think, it is NOT operated by any government. In other words, they can make the choice to allow them to stay or not, the city had no choice.
That, would have been a great court fight: City of Bangor V It’s own Library……et al
The city did not remove the protestors from the library. The city removed the protestors from the park that is adjacent to the library. But even that’s not accurate, as the city merely ordered the protestors to stop camping in the park.
The library told the protesters to leave, after a determination from their attorney that the situation was creating a potential liability. Too bad they didn’t consult the lawyer upfront.
A Tea Party protester camped out on the lawn of a library would be like Dracula camping out on the steps of St. Peter’s Basilica :P
I would argue that councilman Weston is the one doing the political posturing. Occupy left the city grounds. It was a lively discussion at a General Assembly and not everyone was happy with the final agreement to leave the park but consensus was reached. And, when the library notified the General Assembly that the encampment would have to be removed it was done so. All very cooperative. There was not even any civil disobedience. When asked, Occupiers cooperated.
You need a few more years of real life experience before you can make such absolutist statements with any credibility. There are always exemptions to all rules depending on circumstances and common sense.
A reason the KKK, for example, would be refused (I would hope) permission to encamp there is because they are a group which espouses racial hatred and violence, which they have committed aplenty in times past, and perhaps recently, as well.
Tea Party campout? Who cares? Sure, let them live outside and put forth their ideas.
We need to support the free speech rights of those with whom we disagree – or “Free Speech” means nothing.
Free Speech is more important than the anal insistence on exact hours people may walk on the grass. Don’t be such a control freak.
Wait until someone breaks the law with regard to your personal possessions or home. We’ll see how “non-control-freak” you are, in your response.
Municipalities and quasi-governmental entities have to function in a controlled manner, with a set of rules and regulations. It’s the only way to ensure a fair, equitable, and cost-effective existence.
“A reason the KKK, for example, would be refused (I would hope) permission to encamp there is because they are a group which espouses racial hatred and violence, which they have committed aplenty in times past, and perhaps recently, as well.”
“We need to support the free speech rights of those with whom we disagree – or “Free Speech” means nothing.”
You just contradicted yourself.
More censorship First the Nugent concert now his. So we spens a million a year on the library for a town the size of Bangor. I bet that is about the same that is spent on HS. sports for a couple hundred kids to play. 30,000+ thousand people in Bangor can use the library. censorship has no place on either side of politics shame on you councilors. occupy has some good point and some far out ones to. I am not all for robbing from the rich to give to the poor but how about no special rights for the rich?
This is not censorship. How did you come to that conclusion? First Amendment law says that a public park is a public forum- meaning ANY group can use the grounds to assemble and protest. Laws can regulate time, manner and place, but cannot favor one group over another. The park closes at 10pm, and protesters are welcome to return at 6am. However, the Occupiers want to sleep there, eat there, and ultimately, LIVE there. The Library enabled this clear violation of public policy. So again, this is not censorship at all. It’s simply an attempt by the Mayor to make sure tax dollars are not being used to favor a specific political ideology.
I also did not agree with the Nugent ban. Here is what I am getting at let say I start a maple syrup business I mix a little lob cabin in and say it is real. I could get 5 years in jail. Walmrt sells rabbit ear TV antennas claim 55db gain . Wow that what SETI can do . They should pull out TV 20 light years away. They do not work and do not have 55db gain. Why are not the owners of Walmart going to jail? 1000s of things they sell are not what they claim to be. No one seems to care about the truth how bad people are screwed over by big business. Do away with the library if you want. See how much that will help the community . Do knot have a place for people to learn anything. I would say do away with college sports too. Less than 1% of people who attend the university in Orono place sports. But yet they spend $9 million more on it than it brings in . Sorry some of my tax dollar go to support things that are unneeded and have nothing to do with education. But yet the library is an excellent place to learn or research things for free and he wants to close it.
Close the library and you will see an occupy movement move to Bangor from half way around the country. I do not think it would be as pretty a site as they had going before.
For goodness sake, no one is trying to shut down the Library.
I like some of the things occupy stands for definitely not all. They do need too have some rules and respect for the law. I am not fan of any kind of crime in a public place. I believe occupy and some of the big wigs supporting like Steven King should put up some funds to maybe cover a bit more policing. Let them protest blow off steam but lets not let a riot break out. I have no tolerance for drugs , drinking in public or violence.
Where have you been Bob? Obviously not at Peirce Park. When I Occupy none of what you describe has been present. Just people talking about what matters to them….. the kind of America they want to live in. Come join the conversation.
Yes it was much more cival than other occupy places. What I think occupy needs is a bit more organization . Exactly what you are standing for . Seems like so many stand for different things and what reasonable can be done to change things.
From OccupyBangor website:
Occupy Bangor, in the spirit of Occupy Wall Street, is a movement that is concerned about the growing gap between rich and poor in America, as well as corporate control of the political process. We’re assembling as the 99% in a response to public affairs that have come to light as part of the spontaneous Occupy Wall Street Movement.
Points of Consensus
1. We reject the concentration of wealth and power in the 1%.
2. We support voting rights and election policies that benefit the 99%.
3. We support local ordinances and state-wide legislation that
benefit people without homes or those without adequate food in our
community.
4. We encourage Americans to withdraw their money from corporate banks and reinvest it in local banks and credit unions.
5. We support a constitutional amendment to remove personhood from corporations.
6. We support a living wage for all workers.
Do you know what this means?
5. We support a constitutional amendment to remove personhood from corporations.
It means that since News Organizations are corporations they would be removed from civil protections. That means that the government can tell them what to say and how to interpret and broadcast news. The bill of rights would be irrelevant.
Oh please. There are plenty of laws that protect business. Business serves a purpose and should not be disabused by the citizens. But they are not people and should not be able to claim the same protections. Business cannot vote. Walmart cannot walk into the voting booth and cast one vote. Sure they can buy votes. That pretty much makes my point don’t you think?
Aren’t you saying that a corporation does not have free speech. That is what you are saying are you not?
Look its very simple.
If I business does not have free speech that means that an advertiser cannot promote his product the ways he/she sees fit through the corporate media he chooses.
If a news organization no longer has the right of free speech (a corporation) then it can be easily mandated to deliver only official news.”
A Constitutional Amendment such as what you propose has wide ranging implications beyond what you think its use might be. The Constitution is the basis for every law we make. A change like what you propose would negates parts of the Constitution we now have and throws many laws of communication and property rights into question.
4. We encourage Americans to withdraw their money from corporate banks and reinvest it in local banks and credit unions.
Can some OCCUPY persona tell me what the effect would be of changing from a national bank to a “local bank”?
It takes money away from a business that uses money in risky ventures then asks taxpayers to bail them out. Bangor Saving Bank, Bar Harbor Bank and Trust, etc. have not engaged in such practices and seem more focused on their members and their communities. When a local bank starts to act like BoA they too should be viewed as untrustworthy.
Local banks, despite what you think, operate under the same rules and laws that any other bank does. They make money the same way in the same manner as BAC does except they can’t always do it as cheaply as a bigger bank for the consumer. Go ahead advocate local banks… I have no problem with that if you think they operate any differently you really don’t understand banking. They have a wonderful marketing campaign don’t they?
having known people who have worked for both national and local banks, I can assure you theat they DO have VERY different policies on marketing tactics, lending guidelines, and fee structures.
Ok but so what? They work basically they same way. Deposits are liabilities, loans are assets. Federal Reserve Accounts determine loans, all of it on that level works the same way.
They do make their money in different ways. Some are more fee based then others, some depend more on financing action. Pick your bank wisely but don’t think your actions are going to effect their business model. Too many billions involved.
Personally you are better off going to a bank with low fees if that is your need. I use a national bank that handles a wide variety of services therefore I pay no fees and get better loan rates. Like anything if you deal in bulk you get a better price. Same with banks.
I speak with a variety of Bank officials from a number of local banks on loan matters. I have always gotten a better deal from large regional banks than say a local bank.
1+prime from the big guys 2+ prime from the big name local bank. A local bank might be more fee friendly but thats where they make their money. Go to the big national bank if you want a good loan rate.
I only own stock in local banks. My experience tells me that they are more “conservative” than the larger regional, national banks. Which makes it harder for the less fortunate local folks get a loan if needed.
FYI, Obama’s minions MADE our local banks take bailout loans even tho our local banks didn’t want or need them, but were forced to so our local banks could be CONTROLLED by the feds. Just another of the fallacies of the left. Read up on Marxisn, Lenin etal. talk to anyone from Russia, Eastern Block, and now Venezuela. See how Obama sounded almost exactly like Chavez.. Scary.
There you go. Most people think the bailouts were aimed at the big banks only. Most of these people don’t know many small banks were REQUIRED to take bailout money.
Too bad its only us talking to ourselves down & over here !! LOL
Yep LOL
You were right though.
Yea.. try and get some health care in Venezuela !
Why don’t you ask Bank of America, who has shed 3000 jobs since the whole “switch to a credit union” thing. Didn’t Camden National just buy a bunch of their failing branches?
Not Sure what your point is. Please rephrase.
Its an impact. Much more of the money made by your local bank stays in the state, maybe even in town, vs getting funneled off to corporate headquarters in NY or NC or wherever. It also “penalizes” the big banks for making crummy decisions – for instance BOA’s account fees. Frankly, its capitalism (consumer choice) in action.
Oh. I guess I misunderstood. You think the Occupy movement actually effected the sale of BOA branches in Maine. Really??? That is really funny.
Of course you can influence a business but I really don’t think you have a clue about banking. Do you really think that a business (BOA) with an enterprise value of $175 billion made a financial decision based on what you are doing?
The switch to credit union thing was just a “feel good exercise” by a few people who don’t know how things work.
There was no crime in Peirce Park, no drugs or drinking.
This is absurd. It shows how uninformed you are about the Occupy movement. No one is closing the library.
The library has NOTHING to do with Peirce Park.
Occupy left the park. The library said those tents on their property could stay as they had no policy prohibiting such activity…… until it became a liability issue. The library is not under the control of the city council. It has its own charter. It seeks funding from a variety of resources. That the city of Bangor would threaten its citizens access to library resources by withholding city revenue is an affront to every Bangor taxpayer that values the services of their library.
Money has to come from somewhere. There was additional cost to the city. Do we reduce the school budget or should we reduce Fire & Public safety to make up the difference..? Or the Library?
No data Cheesy. Just words. Show me the dollars. And I will show you some savings based on what Occupiers did that public works did not have to.
Every time a police officer drives by that would not have had to otherwise to is an additional cost. Every time a meeting is held involving city staff is an additional cost. Every time you were asked to comply and get a permit was another cost to the city. City solicitor time is not cheap you know.
The legal costs were likely the largest expenditure incurred by the city, followed by police overtime.
As the NY courts found, you are correct.
What special rights do they receive? Do you have a list?
Why ate they not charged with fraud when they sell things that are clearly not what the claim to be? Why do banks get to rip people off and get away with it? Why did they get bailed out? No one bailed my business out. Know one forced banks to make high risk loans. They could have just closed the business. Cellphone companies do not honor contracts. Like I said before if it is 5 years in jail for selling fake maple syrup Walmart owner should be in jail for life. Those $65 rabbit ear antennas they sell to elderly people that claim a 55db gain is far more criminal. 55db amplifies a signal 650,000 times. Big business make so much money by lies and deception and they get away with it.
The Mayor should understand that the library is not a political institution and its board is not built around municipal politics, as is the City Council. Just because the Library is supported by the taxpayers of Bangor doesn’t mean that it’s board must march in lockstep with the City Council. The library did the right thing by not over-reacting. If Bangor’s PD had forcefully removed the Occupy group from the library grounds, the aftermath may well have been far more costly to Bangor than its Mayor may want to imagine.
>>McDade said she hopes the issue doesn’t imperil library funding.
“I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re open
to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” she
said.
You probably should have thought of that before supporting a political movement.
Allowing a group to express its views is “supporting” a political movement? By that logic, I guess the U.S. government supports the KKK.
Oh, Ryan…going right to reductio ad absurdum? That’s just disappointing.
Disappointing also is the hyperbole that the library supported the movement. It’s a nice rallying cry for the troops, but it’s false. They supported Free Speech.
The Board acted bravely, knowing full well they were bucking the establishment.
Ah, now we’re going with argumentum ad verecundiam? That’s so adorable.
Of course, this isn’t about free speech…sorry…Free Speech.
Capitalization does not equal importance. Use your shift key wisely.
Unless, of course, you’re fighting the “establishment.” Who is the
“establishment,” though, and why are they so adverse to capitalization?
Surely, someone who values bravery should be able to explain this. Or is this just a rallying cry?
Anyway, some malcontents camped out on library (and city) property, land supported by taxpayers. They trashed that property and the library board did nothing to stop them. Support takes many forms. Inaction is a choice that McDade and the library board made. Taxpayers, like it or not, are the scary “establishment.” The library board’s “bucking” equaled more money out of our pockets. There is nothing brave about acquiescing to a mob.
Also, “hyperbole?” Really? The library board allowed people to camp out on their (read: our) property for free. If that’s not “support” for the movement, I don’t know what is. Please, bleat all you want about ‘rallying cries’ and the like. But remember…the “establishment?” We are the taxpayers who fund this. Buck us at your peril.
I’m pretty sure the library is not city property. The library was established in a joint venture between the city and the Bangor Mechanic Association, in which the city agreed to provide funding through the Hersey Fund. Samuel Freeman Hersey was a lumber baron and served in Congress. He left the city 30 percent of his estimated $2 million estate “for the promotion of education, the health and good morals of the citizens.”
The catch was the city couldn’t get the money until 1900. But when the timber industry began to decline in the early 1880s, the city convinced Hersey’s heirs to give the city a lump sum of $100,000.
The city then asked the Bangor Mechanic Association, which had “reading rooms” for tradesmen scattered throughout the city, to join forces to create a public library. The city provided funding through the Hersey Fund while the Mechanic Association ran the library.
The library gets more than 50 percent of its budget from the city but it’s not city property? Perhaps it’s what? A ward of the city?
Most likely what’s called a “quasi-municipal agency.” That’s how it works in Kennebunk, where the town pays 80% of the library’s budget, but the two have separate boards and governmental authority.
There is no assertion of authoritativeness in Ryan’s post…you misuse the term argumentum ad verecundium here.
I wasn’t responding to Ryan.
Free speech is a very important political movement. One that a library needs to support or we are in big trouble.
If Mr. Weston valued community, he’d value free speech. Democracy isn’t something that’s done for free, and it isn’t easy. Suggesting to ‘reevaluate library funds’ for their support of free speech is paramount to ‘reevaluating’ the place of free speech in Bangor itself.
I’m sorry that the Occupy movement caused your workers a little bit of overtime. I’m sorry that they excercised their right to be civly disobedient to prove their point. They did it because of people like you Mr. Weston. And if they get started again, I’ll probably join them.
You asked McDade for an explanation, and she gave it. “To promote the idea of free speech”. What is so hard to accept about that? You should be lauding them for their willingness to stand up for the first amendment to the constitution, not threaten them with with jobs, or threaten the community with a lack of funding for a valuable resource for it’s young people and it’s curious.
I’m not connected to any parties involved here, but I honestly feel a little bit offended by Weston’s actions. I’ll be sure to be voting against him in the next election. No one that threatens democracy or free speech should be sitting on the city council.
A thousand likes. Weston’s attitude is scary. It’s one thing to disagree with public opinion expressed in the public square; it’s quite another to threaten a public library with loss of public funds for allowing public expression. Banned any good books lately?
I think it’s weak of Weston to raise this issue during a budget hearing. If he has concerns about the way this single issue was handled, he should have invited library representatives to any of the dozens of city council meetings or workshops that have taken place in the months since this became a dead issue. This was just an ambush for political points. Nothing more.
Banned Books Week is in early September.Support it,support your library,support OWS and get rid of Weston!
Yes, not wanting smelly tents and toilets littering the landscape is EXACTLY like banning books. Unbelievable.
What I find scary is “Barbara McDade finished a presentation for a $1,383,000 fiscal year 2013.” It costs that much money to run the public library? Wow…are we all in the wrong business. How much money is that head librarian making?
And we are all pushing it when we state that freedom of speech means you can camp out on public property when there are guidelines preventing this. Freedom of speech is not setting up showers and places to clean and places to cook your three meals in the middle of a small park. If this is the case, then I suggest the homeless population pick some sort of public topic to be angry about, speak out publically about it, and start camping out and set up their homes on a piece of city property- hey, it’s freedom of speech, right?
I bet the heat, electricity,maintenmence costs are fairly heavy, plus I believe the employees have benefits; health, pension, vacation, similar to city employees.
Takes a bit of money for the “special events” the library puts on too. Of course, what I don’t understand as a Bangor resident taxpayer who works a full job during the week M-F, is why the library has very limited evening hours, and limited weekend hours. When exactly can I avail myself of the 60% of the funding that my fellow Bangor resident taxpayers pay to provide a library that doesn’t have better hours than this:
Friday and Saturday – 10:00 AM – 5:00 PMSunday – CLOSED
.
Who exactly is that library set up for?
I always thought the original hours were set up for students. Growing up always left homework too late – so 7 or 8 would be about the earliest getting there !
When they cut back on the hours from 9-9 , I did ask why not make it 11-9 instead. I think it was the hours that the employees wanted.
The library would be open longer if it had more money.
It is set up for people like you…. to educate yourself…. try patronizing it…
What a great idea… then maybe the homeless voice would be heard in the richest nation in the history of the world…
That you don’t see the irony in your silly comment is really pretty scary…
I don’t think you understand the facts of this case. Weston is not attempting to alter policy or restrict protests- he’s simply questioning the lack of enforcement of an EXISTING policy. The public park is open to any group of any ideology during the hours of 6am and 10pm, this is called a time-place-manner rule in First Amendment law. The Occupiers do not want to abide by this rule. They have complete and utter access to the park during the appropriate hours, they simply cannot LIVE in the park. It’s not complicated. It’s not shocking, and it’s not a restriction of free speech. (See Cox v. New Hampshire)
The facts are:
They left city property and began camping on library property during those restricted hours. The library was at it’s own discretion to provide that space. They did so to uphold free speech and free expression of that speech.
I don’t disagree that if a public policy, enacted long before a demonstration, is in effect, it should be followed. I’m trying to make the point that Mr. Weston is in effect threatening an institution of knowledge, learning, and democracy, by suggesting that funding might be reallocated because of the libraries’ actions.
It’s a presumptuous bully tactic, which shouldn’t be used in a city government.
Besides, if he was so curious about their actions, why didn’t he contact them directly five months ago, instead of waiting until their next budget review?
The facts are that if you wish to treat the Library property as something disconnected from the City than the City should not be funding it.
Exactly my point!
Only in authoritarian regimes does being part of a City mean you must cower before those at the top of the power pyramid. That’s more to the point than the bizarre scenario you are constructing.
Being part of any orginization means that you must submit some on your part. The Public Works members can not just make up their own rules and Police Officers must watch what they say since it all comes back on the City. Don’t like the strings, don’t taker the money. Pretty simple.
And if the money is concentrated at the top, democracy is destroyed, and you get a police state. I don’t want libraries and other institutions cowering and afraid to exercise free speech. That isn’t what free speech is about. That isn’t what freedom is about.
The money is alwasy concentrated at the top even in Communist Countries. That is a fact of life and you can not change it.
I do not see much difference between this situation and the stance taken by our federal government that institutions receiving federal funds must abide by federal rules. For example, Catholic universities are not on federal property, nor are they federally owned, yet they are told that if they wish to receive any federal funding, they must cover birth control when issuing health insurance, i.e., they must abide by federal policies. This is just one example, there are many more. It seems to me that Weston is making a similar argument and that if you accept the argument in the case of private religious institutions, you should accept Weston’s argument.
Right on target !
Either they are part of the city and obey those policies, or not. They don’t have to be. They can be independent. But, they are not independent, they are totally dependent on tax money.
“Weston is not attempting to alter policy or restrict protests- he’s simply questioning the lack of enforcement of an EXISTING policy.”
What “existing” policy? Peirce Park is not library property. There is no city “policy” or ordinance that requires the library to close its grounds at a particular time. The library is well within its rights to allow anyone on its property at any time.
Ryan, this actually brought a neat idea to mind.
Even if it was an existing policy – that policy might be wrong, shortsighted, and not in the best interest of the people.
Yes! And in a democracy–and yes, we’re still a democracy, if there is an unjust policy, rule or law, then it’s the obligation of citizens to speak up!
Actually, we are not now and never have been a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.
But, you speak up and get enough people to agree so that you can change the policy. Neither the library nor Occupy tried to have the policy changed. Occupy is interested in disobeying, not in changing.
Then what you do in a democracy or even in a representative republic, is you change the policy. The worst thing you do is encourage breaking the law. Without laws we have chaos.
Not true, the park is city property!
The park is city property — nobody disputes this.
But the park is not library property; the library has its own land. And there is no city ordinance that requires the library to close at a particular time.
we pay taxes on that library so I think we do have a say!
That’s right, Bob and I pay taxes and we want our say! What do you say Bob? Let’s remove Huckleberry Fin from the Library and no one with long hair can have a card.
Have a “say” on what?
Some of your taxes goes toward Jackson Lab in some form or another. Does this mean you should be able to dictate when Jackson Lab is open?
Some of your taxes goes toward the Bangor Symphony Orchestra. Does this mean you should be able to dictate the times of the orchestra’s performances?
Some of the taxes go to pay Weston’s salary, too! Is there an existing City Ordinance which prevents 24/7 events on the property we are discussing, be it City property or Bangor Public Library property; and then again, if it is not BPL property, Mr. Weston, how come you bring up and combine the BPL’s responsibility to the protester’s decisions to remain on this particular property camping-out? The particular meeting in the BDN responded to was a budget meeting only.
And a decision should be made on the City’s role in budgeting an entity like the Library when it is obvious that the Library feels no need to live within the rules made by the City.
Prejudicial nonsense.
It would be if they were not eating at the public troth.
They are so they must do as they are told on occasion.
Yeah, close the library… what good are books anyway… they chose free speech when discussing an ambiguous policy, what a mistake…
I second the motion, prejudicial nonsense.
If you don’t want to follow the city laws then find private funding. That would put much needed money in the departments that truly need it at this time…plus the library could then do whatever it wants…wait…it already does.
Your library can stay open if you fund it. If you are going to hold your political events there you should fund it. I do not want to fund a camping ground for hippies so I do not want it funded.
“Our” library, not “your” library… unless you are a foreigner.
I just love how folks like you cry chicken little with such partisan fervor. You don’t even know how much, or even IF there were added expenses and yet you talk as if the occupation cost the library, the city, taxpayers thousands of dollars… You get your embroidered knickers all in a twist without knowing the facts… In case you missed it, did you know that the Occupy movement calls attention to certain undisputed facts like GE paid NO TAXES whatsoever last year. Or, that the waste and fraud surrounding the Iraq and Afghanistan military adventures amounts to BILLIONS, TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars… and you whimper about the cost to the library that trickles down to you… maybe PENNIES, literally…
Give me a break. How about a little consistency? How about just a modicum of intellectual honesty?
If you get right down to it, WE PROBABLY BOTH AGREE, yes that’s right, AGREE, the waste in the wars and failure to pay any taxes by big corporations is not fair or good for society,and is a major waste of resources… how about we discuss that possibility and come to an agreement and seek to change the conditions that allow that to happen? You might find we agree on much more than we disagree… just possibly.
I can believe that we will agree on certain concepts because my father is a die hard liberal much like you are and we can agree on certain things. When it comes right down to it though I will never agree on the concept that because I work hard and get something you don’t have, you are now entitled to some portion of what I got simple because you breath.
The free ride concept that many at these meetings appear to advocate by simply blaming the rich for not giving more is not something I can get behind.
Free ride concept…? What are you saying? That the elderly, the poor, the sick, the disabled should do what?
If the wealthy pay less in proportion in taxes than someone making minimum wage, you think that is fair taxation policy? For instance, LePage and the repugs in Augusta are trying to pass legislation that will give the top 6700 families, “tax families” to be accurate, in the state an income tax cut of, on average $20,000/year. They say it is fair because everyone will get a tax cut, but those making minimum wage will get a tax cut of… $1 dollar/yr. I am not making this up.
You really think that is fair?
I work hard too. I don’t expect something for nothing… well, maybe something…. fairness from the people that are supposedly elected to represent me and my interests.
This type of preferential treatment for the wealthy is not fair treatment. If you remain unaware of what has caused this inequality in policy, this favoritism for the wealthy you will never understand what your dad or me are talking about. You will remain unaware of the facts.
And the facts are from 1945 until 1979 everyone’s income rose at the same rate and there was a strong middle class. That is likely the era your dad experienced. Jobs were plentiful, in general mothers stayed home to raise the kids, education was affordable. If someone lost a job they could often find another quickly at comparable wages…
ALL of that changed with the Reagan policies that started to favor the wealthy. And NOW, middle class wages, likely YOUR wages have remained flat, or have declined adjusting for inflation. At this same time wealth has accumulated at the top. Working hard really has little to do with it… that is a meme others present that is false.
Martin Luther King said of legislation: “It may be true that the law cannot change the heart but it can restrain the heartless.” Heartlessness is what the Occupy Movement is about; heartlessness by corporations seeking profit over people, heartlessness by the wealthy buying political influence and making policy that benefits them over everyone else.
When corporations and the wealthy do the right thing, and there are many that do, I nor the Occupy Movement have no problem with them because we are in agreement…
THIS IS WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO.
” Working hard really has little to do with it… that is a meme others present that is false.”
This is untrue on it’s face. If it were true no one would go to school for better grades or go on to advance their education. Statistics show that hard work in that form does pay off.
Sitting on your butt and occupying the same chair and expecting to get promoted just for doing that as your generation did, does not work anymore and it never should have been a reason to get a promotion.
As for income taxes I believe it is fair for everyone to pay the same percentage of their pay to support our government and I do mean everyone. How in the world you can give a greater increase than $1 to someone who pays a net of close to 0 is beyond me. You want to give them a $3000 tax cut when they already pay nothing?
That sounds fair to you? Half the people in Maine pay no income tax and you consider it fair to make the other half pay even more so that we can give a greater hand out?
The problem you liberals have is that you have had your hand in the pockets of others for so long that you now believe they are your pockets and you have a right to have your hand in there.
You want fair?
Everyone who earns $1 pays 10 cents to the State. No exemptions, no matter what.
That’s fair. Those of us who are tired of giving up what we have worked hard for have woken up and those of you who think you deserve a free ride are in for a surprise.
We just might agree – but you never mention .. ..
GE & Obama sitting in a tree, GE & Obama K . i..s.. s — well u get it !
GE Healthcare is or will be one of the biggest recipients of ObamaCare wealth..
When I see any OWS say ANYTHING negative about Obama or even promote Ron Paul, then I’ll know thyy aren’t just tools of the liberal unions and chicago thugs.
Until then, they are the antithesis of the 6o’s / 70’s revolution.
I helped organize an event in Portland when O came to town… he was having a fund raiser where you could buy a lousy meal for from $5k to $30k… we organized a soup line across the street from his fund raiser… free soup for the people… Both dems and repubs are completely in bed with the idea that money is speech and those with the most money have the loudest voices.
Money is speech until you have to buy the groceries, pay for childcare, or healthcare, your rent… and then you are left speechless…
OWS is non-partisan. I have lamblasted in emails several large organizations that tend to support dems because they don’t get that what needs to be fixed in our society is getting money out of electoral politics… until that happens, we the people are NOT REPRESENTED.
We are governed by a corporatocracy (some call that concept fascism) that puts us at a severe disadvantage and it is getting worse every year…
It can happen here, Frank… and it is happening…
Again, what rules?
The City has rules about camping in public places. The library is financed partially by tyhe City so it is one of those places.
Yes, but keep in mind that the library was at the meeting to ask for tax dollars from the citizens of Bangor. I think it is prudent to ask that, if we are funding 60% of your budget, you have some accountability to the city laws. I do not have a problem with people going on library property to use WiFi…but do not compare it with the mess and chaos the occupy Bangor people created.
Are Jackson Labs and the Bangor Symphony Orchestra pitching tents and planting portable toilets conspicuously downtown? Are they creating a public nuisance and an eyesore? The vast majority of Bangor’s citizens were disgusted with the mess, and the library acted irresponsibly and disrespectfully by allowing it to continue as long as it did.
I pay taxes on the military base, but that doesn’t mean I have much voice over what goes on there.
You do actually through your elected government official. Many things get changed through that process.
I’d like to know where the over a million dollars goes and what it’s used for and this is besides the Federal Funding they get. Don’t know about you all but everyone I know has been tightening their belts lately. We can’t just keep giving more and more all the time!
If that’s true, then why did the library’s attorney advise the board to have the protesters leave?
Then the City (us taxpayers) are within “our” rights not to fund the Library. The Library held a meeting and they pick and choose who can pitch their tents. It’s political on their part!
Actually, there is probably a contractual obligation for the city to continue funding the library to some degree, going back to the library’s creation back in 1883. That’s when the city approached the Bangor Mechanic Association to join forces to establish the library, using funds from the Samuel Hersey estate.
What is your evidence that the library has denied any group the ability to express its political views on library property?
Within local law…or not?
There was no policy, ordinance to enforce. We’ve been through this. The once-upon-a-time ordinance was vacated by a judge and the city had not rewritten it. History is being rewritten that is all to accommodate political posturing.
Then, tell us, why does the City allow transients and others to use the BPL grounds after hours during the night in the summertime when the weather is good? The operators of BPL do not allow this because they do not know it or are aware of it at the time it happens. [Legal court case referencing be darned].
What i dont feel that YOU sir understand, is that if this had been ANY other group of people gettting together, say the Boy Scouts, or the Save a Tree foundation, or ANY other group other than the Occupy Wall Street Movement, which is directly spreading the word that government is on the sides of the Corporations and not on the sides of the Citizens of this country, then there would have been NO THREAT by the rediculous mayor that we have for Bangor. When Cary was elected, i was in hopes that being younger, he would bring some of the younger views to an ancient city council that had grown tired in thier thought processes. It saddens me to see that this is not the case. Mr. Weston, you should be ashamed of yourself, and this is EXACTLY why the mayor should be an elected posititon.
I am a citizen and they don’t represent my views.
We all understand the facts, student.
There are exemptions granted to many laws, including exemptions given to filthy industries allowing them to pollute our air and water, for example.
Mr. Weston sounds like he’s primping for higher office, or he’s just another extreme right-winger who doesn’t support Free Speech for others, just for his ilk.
Those filthy industries used to feed many of us but you and yours sure fixed that didn’t you.
Not sure exactly what you mean, but industries decided cheap labor is what they really want, so they’ve moved, and are still moving, to foreign lands where people make – hard to believe, but true – only $1 to $2 a day!
More money in corporate owners’ pockets. No loyalty from them – only thing that counts is profits in their pockets, not for their loyal workers’ families.
That’s your spin on what yourside has done to this country. The truth is 3rd world labor coasts have always been cheaper and that is just a very short term expense. You and yours have made the cost of doing business here too expensive over the long haul and that is even if a business owner is optimistic enough to believe that asfter he builds regulations will stay predictable. He knows though that they won’t and that worse yet the interpretations of what the regulations mean will become even more restrictive even if the regulations themselves never change.
I agree 100%. We all have to abide by EXISTING policy. Does anyone think the Tea Party would have been allowed to pitch tents on Library property? Not on your life! Nor should they. I have a permit right here for EVERYONE that wants their free speech to be heard. No matter who you are or what organization you are, there are still rules you have to abide by. You CANNOT, by law, wave the flag or march downtown without this permit that you get from Parks and Recreation. The parades have to have a permit. So my point is………get your permit like everyone else does.
Actually, I’m quite sure the Tea Party would have been allowed to do so. See, the library doesn’t have a policy that prohibits such behavior, which is exactly why the Occupiers were able to do so.
I know it makes you feel good to think its some vast conspiracy, but its really not.
“You CANNOT, by law, wave the flag…”
Yikes…
Of course you can — no permit needed. You can even burn it.
THE LIBRARY GROUNDS ARE NOT A PUBLIC PARK!
Jeez!
But it is inappropriate for a city leader to ambush people at a budget hearing, rather than picking up a telephone and addressing concerns as they occur. It’s passive aggressive and it has no place in city business.
Acknowledging that we’re lucky to have newspaper reports be 50% accurate, I also had a twinge sense that this was a tactic similarly used by Emily Cain to question Le Page several times.
But then OTOH, as reported ” This public forum was the first time I’ve seen the board” making it possibly not such a bad idea.
Did any poster here attend the meeting?
Is it normal to have three BPL board members attend the meeting in addition to the director of BPL ?
Since they were discussing the annual library budget request, it wouldn’t be unusual to have a few board members in attendance.
I would have expected so also, but I was wondering if that was really the case. I expect some boards intend that is the director duty. Just curious if they felt they NEEDED to be there, aware that this issue might come up.
Wrong. Weston complied with Freedom of Access rules, and addressed council and city business in the board room, where it belongs.
Doing the city’s business via phone and behind closed doors is against both state and Federal law.
Government operates by different rules than general society, for good reasons. The public’s business shall be done publicly.
Maine’s open records law applies to meetings and records, not simple phone calls. City leaders are talking all of the time on the phone — that’s not a problem (as long as they don’t conduct a meeting on the phone).
Federal law doesn’t even enter into it.
Actually, it is a free speech issue. Political protests have occupied spaces throughout our nation’s history, with their presence being an integral part of the political protest. 24/7 political protest, and the free speech inherent in the protest, has been infringed upon by the courts numerous times, especially in recent times with the security state mentality that is more and more criminalizing dissent and protest. No, it’s not complicated… Dissent and protest are becoming a thing of the past as the corporatocracy (a form of fascism) exerts its will over the people by way of the police and security state, the privatization of security and incarceration, they benefit from.
It is a slippery slope that we have slid too far down as a nation because of attitudes like Weston’s, and yours.
So in this case, free speech isn’t free,it has a cost, one which you are ok to have the city pay? So, what would happen if a bunch of Tea Party folks moved in for a month or two, maybe some Neo Nazi’s , the Klan? would it still be ok? Would the expense to support these folks and there protected message still be ok with you? Just wondering.
The expense to support democracy is always warranted. Ideas, no matter how different, loving, hateful, religious, or otherwise are always welcome at the table of free thought. Everything we believe today was at one time a radical idea that someone else didn’t like. Those radical ideas took hold because those messages were shared and society as a whole took it and internalized it into it’s culture.
Protecting free speech, and making sure our fellow citizens maintain the right and ability to practice it, should be a city council member’s top priority. Hiding behind policy and fiscal conservation is a round-about way of beaucratizing a right that should be inherent and available to anyone.
A|long winded work around the question, you want to try answering it now?
Perhaps you should reread it, he did answer it and very well. But I’ll interpret, yes, his answer was yes.
He answered it. It was a dumb question anyhow.
Was it a dumb question? My contention was ,and still is , that if one of these groups I mention showed up and camped out that eventually the liberal/progressives would rally their forces and come up with a plan. One of these plans would include a campaign to silence the targeted group. It would involve demonizing their causes and will inevitably label these folks speech as hate.
The Left, of course, being totalitarian in the ideology believe that what they do not like, the government should curtail, limit, or ban outright and they will attempt to suppress not hate, but speech that dares differ from Leftist ideals of Collectivism. Leftists will attempt to use the government and law to decide what is acceptable, respectful, offensive, etc. Because, in their minds, if the government does not restrict certain speech, we will all go crazy and slaughter one another or something. Of course, such
laws will be used by the Left to silence dissenting views. they will get to decide what speech is dangerous and hateful . Odd, the left used to say dissent was patriotic, but that was when Republicans held the White House, now, the Left calls dissent other words , racist, bigoted, hate, Fascist, etc all come to mind.
So, bhz388’s post sounds pretty and receives applause from the leftist/progressives, it sounds nice. I only have to look at the folks cheering it and consider their previous post and stated beliefs to know that it is nothing more than pretty talk. Actions out weigh words, and those on the Left do not have a good track record in this regard. I could ask the question again but it could also be considered rhetorical ,as the answer has been shown time and again.
This demonization of enemies is a long-standing tactic of the left, since their ideology requires coercion, not persuasion.
One need only to look at the example of Lenin, who branded his enemies “former people” and then set his Cheka to slaughter them. Leftist schemes always end badly.
Leftist schemes always end badly….. especially for the proletariat
The response was clear and concise; perhaps you need look up a few words to fully understand the response, though, Rocky.
How could I possibly be expected to understand?I’m not considered to be a part of the self proclaimed Enlightened ones, the Artsy types, maybe you could paint me a picture and help me understand, I’m a visual kinda fella.
A wonderful response. Thank for putting some powerful thoughts together so succinctly. You answered the question perfectly.
I want to see an itemized bill of the cities costs. Occupy paid their way and were peaceful. What possible expenses were there for the city?
I would specifically like to know how he bases the claims that it raised the costs and effectiveness of the employees of City Hall.
Paid their way? Do you have receipts on monies paid to the city to support this?
How about a Boy Scout campout? Would that be all right with you?
The difference between the Occupy and T.E.A. Party is that T.E.A. has a specific issue they are trying to fix: over taxation. There is a huge difference between protesting, raising awareness and just being obnoxious. That’s why they will come back in the summer. You think when we are a total socialist state it will be allowed? Tianimen Square anyone?
Do you pay taxes in Bangor?
Do you have tickets to the Ted Nugent concert? What kind of a question is that?
How about this: Do you pay taxes ……………..at all?
as a a matter of fact I pay a crap load of taxes. Nice try on a spin. Typical liberal! I didn’t fight for this country for over 10 years to have these hippies ruin it for everyone. So sick and tired of this crap. Maybe you should go to Oakland or Portland and join these fools!
What are you doing for your country now Mr. Gallant? My WWII relatives are rolling over in their graves at what’s passing for the “land of the free, home of the brave” these days.
I do plenty, don’t worry about it!
LOL – 10 years of fighting huh. If that’s even true, then thanks for volunteering to do that in exchange for your salary and benefits. But don’t think it entitles you to dictate to the rest of us how things here are going to work. There’s room in Bangor for hippies, in facft, we’re better off by having them.
Those hippies in Occupy Bangor were doctors, lawyers, teachers, social workers, journalists, war veterans, grandmothers, children, artists, carpenters, construction workers, small business leaders, grieving parents who lost a child in Iraq, professors, writers, laborers, truck drivers, nurses…the list goes on.
You just listed more professions then there were Protesters.
They were also camping illegally. Ask the NY Superior Court.
Those hippies, evil liberals, whackjobs in Oakland and Portland, and ALL their first ammendment crap is EXACTLY what you were fighting for. Surprise and thank you.
get off my lawn!!!
damn hippies….
And on top of that, I wasn’t asking you, so butt out!
What was it that Forrest Gump says? Stupid is …..is what stupid does? I don’t care if you were asking me or not. If you want to enter onto these posts, then anything you say will be offered in a public manner, not private.
Run Forrest…….run!
I do, and I support bhz388’s statements.
im sure you do, you must be the 1% of liberals who have no clue, oh wait that would be 99%!
So any one that disagrees with you doesn’t have a clue? And you want to shut down free speech because . . . . . because you don’t agree with the opposition? What exactly were you fighting for 10 years?
Did’y say shut down free speech! Guess you are clueless because you missed my point completely!
Robert, you have posted no response other than to call names. Your response amounts to ‘liberals have no clue.’ How insightful! Sounds rather like the National Republican Party’s reply to pretty much everything in the national discourse. Do you have anything of substance to add to this discussion?
As I’m reading this “letterreader”, you’re doing a little name calling yourself!
This is off the point but, do you know that there are now around 25 bills that the House has passed by both Dems and Republicans that are SITTING on Harry Reids desk in the Senate and where is the blame going???????? Just saying – the House has done their work and the Senate won’t even take it up. AND won’t even put a BUDGET that is 3 yrs. past due on the table!!!!
Where did I call anyone a name? Can you read? Now I’ll bet, since I asked you if you can read, you will interpret that as name calling: am I right?
Sadly, it appears that the majority of Americans are completely controlled by the media. If the media doesn’t make an issue of it, it’s not an issue.
If there was a Republican administration which hadn’t passed a budget, it would be constant above the fold news.
Example: The Trayvon/Zimmerman mess – only happened because of Rahm Emanuel’s Chicago thugs “Don’t waste a Crisis” media lapdogs.
You don’t have a point to miss completely…..Bob.
I’m disgusted that the sloppy BDN continues to make reference to Bangor’s “mayor”. A position that does not exist.
Occupy Bangor is alive and well. You can join in every Friday at 5:00 at the park when the General Assembly meets.
Sorry but I have a life and a job!
So do I. But protesting is a right I feel I have a responsibility as a citizen to take up when The People are being ignored by their government.
Thank you for continuing to support OB/OWS.Weston is a Koch tool trying a desperate threat-and not being any too subtle about it either.He needs to be thrown out and the library needs full funding.
Go ahead and camp in the park. You all are making a difference. NOT!!! Most working folks think you are a Joke. Thanks for the laugh.
Um, have your heard about the exodus from ALEC? Occupiers helped make that happen. Quite a big impact I am thinking. A network was created that is working diligently behind the scenes to create the change we want. Do not think that because the tents are gone nothing is happening.
Beware that network behind the scenes, KayakMomma. We’ve seen their like before in the world.
Are you qualified to speak on behalf of “most working folks”; and why the assumption that just because someone finds the time to protest that they must not be working. I manage the time to do both. I saw further up the line that “a vast majority of Bangor citizens were disgusted.” again, how do we know? Assumptions…..
So do all of the protesters. This show how out of touch you are about this. This shows how uninformed that you are about this.
apparently not much of one, since you are spending so much time here putting others down.
Seems the threatening of free speech is somewhere in the air at Bangor City Hall lately. With the brouhaha over Ted Nugent and all, I think the triumvirate of people [Baldacci, Longo and Weston] have made themselves very clear, if you say anything to get the ire of a few in Bangor City Hall, things happen – or could happen. Now, the Tea Party event which took place on the hallowed grounds of the Library is under fire because the library director and the counsel and board member, Minsky [also an attorney] found it fitting the protester’s could protest for awhile as the City of Bangor also gave permission [that is until the liability clause was discovered within the City of Bangor’s rules someplace]. With the last line made by “bhz388”, I guess relatives in the city we have will not be voting for any of these Three Mouseketeer’s!
This is an old and tired excuse for bad behavior. People act like this is something novel but this is a tactic tried by many over the years in our country. Hundreds of years of case law supports the evictions of the occupiers.
When the Neo-nazi’s came to town, we told them, “Get a permit, leave by 10.” When the KKK wanted to set up camp, we told them “no.”
No one cared.
But now that a crew comes in with a message that benefits one political party, it’s all of sudden a constitutional right.
It wasn’t ” a little bit of overtime.” It was 10’s of a thousands of dollars with threat of no end.
It makes perfect sense that the people who are handing out tax dollars questions whether or no that entity receiving that money will be costing them more money.
Weston probably got the idea that’s it’s OK to threaten funding of a valuable public institution like a library, when our very own governor has repeatedly threatened to defund MPBN.
That “little bit of overtime” has consumed resources which might be better spent elsewhere. The cost nationally of this movement has been in the millions. Furthermore, breaking the law does not equate with the support of free speech. Mr. Weston has a responsibility to oversee how city resources are to be spent. You, of course, have the right to disagree and I laud your statement that you’ll voice your disagreement at the ballot box- THAT is democracy in action.
This is an example of the “entitlement” attitude by those who take from the city coffers but refuse to follow its policies. It has little to do with “free speech.”
Oh Councilor Weston….. to be so clear in your threat of not funding the library… and ‘that past
decidions (by library) are indicators of future’. Also waiting until NOW … when you have the power of the city budgeting to ask the board’s rational. It’s ..an indication of the high and mighty role you’ve self-assumed by your title of “Mayor”.
The Constutition gives the Right to Assemble. The city might have a ‘policy’ on what hours people are allowed in city park areas. The city has never enforced this… look at the tent-city of the homeless… and others. Given the precident that the City was choosing ONLY to enforce the ‘policy’ because of the Occupy Situation, it would have REAKED of discrimination against them… and likely a lawsuit.. as were initiated in other areas.
YES, by letting Occupy do their thing… and allowing them to remain on library property (where the library allows OTHERS to remain after hours) … it was not setting a precident of evicting Occupy where other people had been allowed to be.. that would be discrimination because of Occupy’s political values – possible a expensive lawsuit against our City.
Then there’s the part of the Constutition of ‘Free Speach’. We don’t ban books from the library (at least you haven’t banned books you dislike as they discent from your values and opinions). Our country is ‘Free’ in that soldier protect the right of anyone to say what they want….I believe the saying goes ‘I’ll defend to the death your right to say it… no matter how much I disagree with it’. Hat’s OFF to Librarian Barbara McDade.. a TRUE believer in the values of our country.. for all cirtizens… whether or NOT she agrees with their opinions.
Councilor Weston… to outwardly express that the library might not receive fund(s) because theiy board decided to follow the way of the constitution….. AND prevent Occupy from sueing the city…. is rather a dictatorlike action by you. Sure.. Occupy cost the city police etc. extra… and was a pain to get thru the area…..but so is the downtown waterfront concerts and extra police issues with them….
I think you need to act a bit less manipulative or like a control freak and grow up… to act with the council as a group.
Also, the fiasco with general assistance really miffs me too. Because we’re the mecca we have to pay even more… with people coming in for methadone.. and to traffic the methadone etc. However… if we don’t give out general assistance… the City of Bangor can be SUED for violating state law. The REAL problem started when Gov. LePage gave the huge tax rebate soon after he entered office.. now no $$.
You have enough on your plate than to now threaten to hold funding for the Bangor Public Library HOSTAGE because you didn’t like a decision they make 5 months ago.
You are speaking out of pure emotion, not fact.
Cox v. New Hampshire –Supreme Court– Government can not regulate protests on the basis of content. They CAN, however, regulate on the basis of time, place and manner. There’s your precedent…
You sure like … … and CAPS.
I agree with you, but perhaps you should visit the library more often.
Be honest here! We (the State) had NO money before LePage was even elected! Look back!
Weston is correct. The library was causing a situation of potential liability, and that’s why they finally asked the OWS people to depart the grounds. The library attorney told them it wasn’t wise, which the library should have determined at the start, not at the end. They need to run the place like a business, not a social service.
The library is supposed to operate according to the policies governing other municipal entities. They didn’t.
What “policies”?
They dont mind it cause they dont have to pay for it
$1,383,000,WOW.
$9,000,000 more spent on sports than they bring in for the college in Orono . Talk about waist.
That includes salaries, benefits, book acquisitions, book repairs, electricity, heat, air-conditioning, building maintenance, equipment, equipment maintenance, Internet access, magazine subscriptions, newspaper subscriptions, database subscriptions, etc. There are a lot of excellent online databases the library provides access to, right from the comfort of your home. You can search Bangor Daily archives for free. You can look up medical articles. You can borrow audio books right from home. You name it.
Yup, the initial shock of it wore off after a few min.
Actually their budget seems fairly reasonable – I expected it would have been greater. I believe the employees salaries are in line or lower than other public employees, but with the cost of benefits , most folks don’t realize how much employers spent (or how much employees cost)
I also thought it was funded more by their endowments than the city. You don’t have to be a Bangor resident to use it. I hope folks support the BPL when it has a funding drive.
However Ryan, the issue has to do with the libraries board and its responsibilities as a quasi-public identity not its function.
Dear Mr. Neff and editors: A journalist’s job is to be accurate. There is no title of “mayor” to be found anywhere in the city’s charter. Cary West is the chair of the City Council. Nothing more.
Really fun to watch how nuts this makes you.
It’s too bad more people didn’t demand accuracy from journalists.
Particularly when it comes to such an elementary piece of information.
Such an error is dismal.
I would be very interested to know the actual costs involved here. Were overtime patrols truly necessary and what is the financial impact of “aggravations”? To suggest that funding may be withheld, and make no mistake that suggestion was made, to an organization that enhances the lives of all city residents over a matter for which precendence does not exist seems short-sighted.
The voters of Bangor need to eliminate these political grandstanders and elect serious people who can see past the partisan gamesmanship and rhetoric and actually LEAD this city out of the economic doldrums.
Mayor Cary Weston, Look at the 42 Millon dollar School budget before threatening the Library funds..
Are you suggesting that the city council reduce the school budget to make up for the money the Occupiers cost the city? It would seem to me the library might be a good place for that.
No. what I am saying is that a 42 millon dollar school budget is where we could find some real savings,, Let knock 8 mil off that and let the school survive on 34 millon dollar annual budget. Schools preach their liberal agendas which makes them political.
You will now be accused of hating little children, and wishing teachers to die in snowbanks.
“I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re
open to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” ~~~~~ McDade
You made it a political thing the moment they were allowed to move from City property to Library property. You took sides and did nothing to dissuade the city from that notion during the meeting tonight.
The library took the side of free speech.
Oh please this is just political posturing.
But also true.
Not unless there is data to back it up. Then it is just posturing. We see a lot of that. Throughout the political spectrum.
Are Occupiers posturing?
Agreed. If the library wants to operate as an independent facility, they can stop taking the city funding that pays for 60% of their budget. Otherwise, they should operate under the city’s policies, and respect the rights of everyone who pays for their support.
What “city policy”?
The library grounds are NOT part of Peirce Park.
Ask Weston, and the city council. Read the Bangor ordinances. The city pays 60% of the library’s budget, and the library is supposed to comply with Bangor City ordinances. Just like city hall.
There were two ordinances in question last fall: (1) Parks are closed from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and (2) camping is not allowed in city parks.
Once more: The library grounds do not include Peirce Park.
The library, according the to BDN article and Weston, operates under city policies for public property. The protesters were creating a potential liability situation, which is why the library eventually asked them to leave.
Nobody’s saying the protesters weren’t welcome to assemble during daytime hours, or on private property at night. They weren’t on private property at night.
You keep saying the library didn’t follow city policy. Well, cite the policy…
They ARE an independent non-profit. They provide a service to Bangor citizens. If Bangor no longer wants those services then they can stop contributing. Much as I stopped contributing to an organization that sold out to big money. But they CANNOT dictate policy. The city council can create their own library for Bangor citizens and then they will have complete control. And the library can start charging Bangor citizens who would like to use their services.
Would the majority of taxpaying citizens miss any service the library offers if it became a Library Museum tomorrow? I can’t accept with a straight face you would suggest that would be true.
You would be surprised at what the library provides.
The library operates under the city policies. The library gets 60% of their annual operating budget from the city. Read the article.
The library has a legal obligation to comply with city policies and ordinances. They don’t get to make up their own rules. Weston is correct.
The First Amendment takes precedence over the city policies. I suggest the mayor read the Constitution.
If you really believe that I suggest you do some reading of that document as well.
Librarians are some of the most networked people in the US. Librarians will immediately come to the aid of ANY library in distress or under attack, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the Bangor Public Library’s issues with the City becomes a nationwide story by midweek.
Way to go maya! 1.2 mil ? if that was the tea party ,they wouldnt have been camping there on library or city property
If the tea partiers wanted to stay there, too, why not? Who cares? Free speech applies to all, not just those with whom we agree.
Let the tea partiers live outside on the ground for a while, too.
I would like to see the data on cost to the city. I never saw a city employee there cleaning up anything. When asked to leave the encampment was raked and leaves hauled away by Occupy members. So Bangor public funds were actually saved because public works did not have to rake the fall leaves. Throwing words around five months after the fact with no data to back it up is political posturing and Weston should be removed from office for such behavior. Poor leadership skills.
So Mayor Weston is feeling his oats.. He’s the top dog in Bangor and he is strutting his stuff… Nothing happens in Bangor without Mayor Weston’s OK. Sort of like the old mob of yesteryear.. Do you suppose he is answering to anyone, I don’t think so. What we have here is a dictator. Lets do it folks lets vote him out next round. P.S. Beware He controls the BDN also and commenting on him might get you banned. Everyone bows to to him, so be careful what you say.
Leave the Library and librarians alone you pack of. They did what was right based upon this countries founding, knowledge, and rights to free expression and the city did what they thought was right and acceptable at this time in history based upon whatever (not quite sure myself). Not everybody is going to comply and adhere to a model over what our forefathers fought and died for. The only issue I have with these occupiers over is their not asking to use and occupy beforehand. If they asked some owners would say no problem. They should not assume because property is this or that, or just assume that they have rights to set up camp.
This episode had absolutely nothing to do with free speech. It was clearly orchestrated by a bunch of Obama thugs; period. Mr. Weston is right in asking the questions. He would also be right in seeing to it that the funding be cut, substantially. Everyone in a leadership role in Bangor and the library who think otherwise should take a hike.
Good Grief! So because a few people walked and slept on the grass a few hours past regular time for a while – and left the place cleaner than it had been – the library funding should be cut?
Are you not a fan of learning? Do you not encourage your children to read? Or do you think people should only read what the City Council – or you – want them to read?
What’s the mentality behind not allowing people on the grass after hours? Don’t the concerts in the parks stay “after hours?” Along with Internet users outside the Library after hours?
The real idea, it seems, is to keep quiet people with whom one disagrees politically, and call them names so as to ridicule them.
You know, they might actually have something to say of interest to you. Really.
Legal fees and city staff time, along with cleanup, policing, and trash disposal.
Sorry. Wrong. Not an Obama supporter. And I Occupy. What a silly idea. Bangor citizens would be outraged if they were charged to use their library.
Why? You pay a user fee to have your vehicle on public roads. You pay a user fee when you dispose of your trash.
Bangor may consider the years they over taxed my property for something I didn’t have and then wouldn’t give back my money as part of the payment for this since they didn’t respect my rules…..don’t steal from the citizens.
The ordinance itself – the one requiring that all public parks be empty between the hours of 10PM and 6AM – does more harm than good, and should be vacated. I understand that its intention is to protect citizens and keep public spaces from degenerating, but f Bangor hopes to have any semblance of night life, this ordinance does nothing but impede that goal. We already went through this in the late 90’s with West Market Square, and the forces of so-called “law and order” won that round, but Bangor has changed a lot since then. Frankly, I’d gladly trade the supposed protections of the ordinance in favor of a little more flexibility on the part of the city. Loosen up, Bangor.
And as for the Occupy protestors, I’d say that the principles of free speech and the right to peaceably assemble are far, far more important than the enforcement of any city ordinance. I hope Mr. Weston can appreciate that. And for the record, I’d be saying the same if it was Tea Party protestors instead of Occupy protestors. It’s the principles that matter here, not the content of the political messages.
The Bangor Public Library doesn’t have a Park.
There was no ordinance on the grounds you state. It was vacated by a judge and never rewritten to address the constitutional concerns. So you are right on!
I think that the Library should have their budget reduced by the same amount it cost the taxpayers after the protestors moved onto their property.
Can you tell us how much this was, and for what?
No data on there being ANY cost to the city. So no loss. Actually maybe the amount should be increased as Occupiers cleaned up after others who used the park. I threw away a couple coffee cups myself. Saved the public works folks some time which saved the city some dollars.
Did you compensate the city for the use of the city solicitor?
It’s amazing, how completely uninformed some of the OWS protesters seem to be, about the costs to run a city. Attorneys are routinely $300-$400 per hour, even on a municipal level.
Don’t take it personal, The comments on here represent the feeling of the people in Bangor.
You don’t have to protect the big boys, they can take care of themselves
The city solicitor gets paid a salary no matter what.
If the library gets city funds it ought to respect city policies…..
I would rather see the library refuse the funds and charge the patrons. I like an independent library. It seems very American.
Sorta Like MPBN?
I wonder if Charlie Longo spoke up and asked that in the future all those offensive Occupiers aren’t allowed a stage or forum in his City? Or has he written a letter?
Do you think Weston suffers Longo gladly?
“I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re open to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” she said.
If you didn’t want this to become a political thing then you shouldn’t have allowed your grounds to be the focus of a political rally expressing only one point of view and that of a very small minority of our people.
She is talking about financial resources becoming political. There was no agreement between the city and the library requiring the library to follow in lock-step city council decisions prior to OccupyBangor. Wonder if the library will fall in line now. I certainly hope not.
By financing the City is also part owner and could be party to any law suits etc… as they would with any other City property. Liability is a big driver when it comes to why many of these rules exist. I certainly hope the City does something to shield themselves from this possibility. One option is to treat the library as it wishes to be treated. A seperate entity with it’s own financing schemes.
Exactly. Instead, the library wants it both ways – to be financially dependent, and governmentally independent. It doesn’t work that way.
of course it works that way. Look at the court systems. They appoint judges according to there politics, yet courts are supposed to be seperate from the governemnt
Remember the incident a while ago when a woman kept “removing” a sex ed book from the Portland library?That was property theft yet she was treated with kid gloves and was a hero to the right.They didn’t have a problem with “their ” tax dollars being used then.As if they even pay enough taxes to speak of.
Wrong. If you check out the threads on AMG regarding that incident, many conservatives felt she was way out of line in taking the book. She is welcome to her opinion, but not to impose it on others by stealing public property.
Too bad the problem makers ruined it for the rest of the occupiers. I don’t agree with them I just think they should follow the rules like everyone else.
How long before community libraries are committed to history? What function do they serve anymore? How many people actually visit the BPL on a given day, week or month? I can appreciate the historical value of the property and the role libraries served in our past. But are they necessary expenses in this current age of electronic enlightenment and content downloads? I honestly cannot remember the last time I was in a library. I do remember going to BPL with my mom, eager for the newest Curious George picture book – 40 years ago!
W0w, get rid of libraries? Amazing.
You quit reading 40 years ago? If you go into the BPL, you will see people there. Books going out. Books coming back. Electronic books being downloaded. Public computers in use.
It’s a resource for the whole community. Knowledge is power.
Um, yea Jim, I quit reading 40 years ago. Anyway, I was not advocating shutting down any library, I was asking a few questions. Because I have the worlds greatest library at my fingertips and I don’t have to burn fossil fuels to access it, I wasn’t sure if every town or little city needed a library anymore. I was fact finding.
!!!!! Seriously????? !!!!! Shut down the library? Where are you living – in Germany in 1938?
Don, The library is a pretty busy place and deserves community support because of their contribution to the area. That said, The library needs to stay out of politics or the city should not fund the cost of their participation in politics. Take the additional cost to the city for the time the campers “Occupied” the library out of their budget and be done with it.
What cost? OccupyBangor asked for an accounting and never received it. No data provided by anyone. Just empty words used for political posturing.
I have related to many folks over the years that the BPL is one of the best and most highly used libraries in the country. (I don’t recall where I got the statistics) In the top five at least.
If anything, I hope they don’t reduce funding for physical books to be replaced by electonic means, but that technology should increase availability, as it appears to do.
Unfortunately, I’ve become to appreciate the large type book section !
I regularly support the BPL financially ( other than fines) with the white contribution cards located by the checkout desk.
I didn’t know that the library is funded at such a high level by the city’s budget. I thought private contributions and annuities was the primary method.
Thank you for a sincere and thoughtful response to my questions. That really adds to the discussion.
It’s obvious.
There are a lot of excellent online databases the library provides access to, right from the comfort of your home. You can search Bangor Daily archives for free. You can look up medical articles. You can borrow audio books right from home. You name it.
All Rights are derived through property. If you own a piece of property you can say who is allowed on your property and who isn’t. You can also control what is said and done on your property. If you don’t like something someone says while on your property you can simply kick them off your property. This whole discussion over “Free speach” is just a ruse. If you don’t own the property…you don’t have the Right to live on it, camp out, protest, etc. So, if the property in question is owned by the Library, City, or any section of our government; the bigger question is does the section of government that has ownership of this particular piece of property have a policy on whatever type of behavior that is in question? If so, was this policy in effect at the time? This is why we have City Councils…to address issues, implement ordinances, etc. The Council’s waiting til now to question the actions that were allowed to take place is incredible hindsight on their part. This issue should have been raised at the time. Remember, with every Right comes and equal Responsibility.
Excellent response and analysis.
Someone needs to stand up for the people who were practicing their right to free speech. The PUBLIC library exists for the PUBLIC; it does not exist for the library board. Threatening the funding of a PUBLIC library over this issue shows Weston’s pettiness.
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It’s actually against the law to suppress Right to Assemble but hey, who’s doing the law anymore? The Constitution is just a civility suggestion.
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You folks need to do some research. Courts from one side of the US to the other found the same result — OWS had no right to “indefinitely” camp on public land. Camping is not the same as assembling, under the law. That’s why every court case found for the municipalities, including NYC.
Who was harmed?
If you don’t agree with the ordinances, and the law, then work to change them. Until that happens, municipalities, and quasi-governmental facilities, like the library, are obligated to operate within existing law.
Oops, I forgot. Ordinance, schmordinance is only if you’re one of the favored. Noise ordinance. Concerts on the Waterfront. Right to quiet enjoyment of one’s home. Sigh.
Try your argument next time a policeman pulls you over for speeding. “What’s the harm officer, no one was hurt?” Your attempts to justify ignoring and breaking the law for personal political desires is actually quite a pitiful argument on all levels!
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Well knowing it is one thing and acknowledging it is another isn’t it?
There’s the right to assemble and then the right to assemble indefinitely. Even freedom of speech has it’s limits.
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The Occupy people were welcome to camp on their own lawns – not on public property, which had ordinances forbidding the practice.
The law is the law.
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You need to subtract the emotion from the argument. This isn’t about “hate,” or the lack of hate. This is about municipal ordinances and policies, for public property.
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Not from mine, which is what your response concerned.
Now there you have it, that’s the way a democracy works. Ironically, (or not) I happen to think that the city should not have issued a permit! Interesting how there are two different views on an issue huh? And for the record it has nothing to do with hate and everything to do with lack of respect for the movement based on their very clear track record nation wide!
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There is no law or ordinance the prohibits camping on the library grounds.
Mob rule has been shown to be a successful and constructive method of governance in which countries and at what point in history again??
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Weston has an exaggerated sense of his own importance, and is less valuable to the city than a good librarian . . .
The Bangor Public Library does not have a Park. They have a lawn.
Weston is starting to sound an a lot like some guy from Augusta (I forget his name, big guy, glasses, bad temper, his way or the highway, the kiss my butt guy) anyways yeah, budget involved, didn’t like a decision someone else made and making a big deal out of it that didn’t require the city to begin with.
When a state doesn’t follow federal directives, the feds withhold money.
When a town doesn’t follow state proceedures, the state withholds money.
When a non-profit sticks its thumbs in the eye of a benefactor town, it should expect such an action to have consequences and the expected loss of financial support.
The City of.Bangor made extraordinary effots to accomodate Occupy, but eventually drew the line with a curfew, a reasonable accomodation.
For the library leadership to overtly fail to follow suit… was an error of judgement in direct conflict with a major funder.
Weston was fully within bounds to question the obvious slight to the City and only time
e will tell just how the majority of councillors will vote on funding implications.
One should never bite the hand thar feeds them… unless Steven King eould like to pick up any funding loss.
You’re joking, right?
Can I assume from your cryptic response that you’ve never served in an elected capacity: School Committee, Town Council, State Senate, etc?
Likewise, have you ever served on a College Board, local YMCA Board, Community Foundation or similar volunteer position?
If you ever did, you’d realize that none of these issues are so simple, and yes, having served in all of the above capacities… it’s not uncommon at all for the major funder to enjoy the authority to question just where their funds are going; particularly when the recipient’s behaviors oppose the policies of the funder.
If the Library wishes to operate completely unfettered by the Bangor Council, or even a philanthropic individual… all they need do is wean themselves of another’s teat.
Now, Tom, you, as part of the country’s rich 1%, might well disagree with people calling for a more equitable system of governance so that sick veterans and women and children aren’t begging in the streets.
But free speech isn’t just for those who can buy it – it applies to all, even those with whom we disagree.
The concept of Free Speech is much more important than walking and sleeping on the grass at odd hours at the Library.
Really.
Now you are going to screw up the lefts argument with those darn pesky facts again!
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” – George Orwell
Bangor appears to have 2 kids running the city…..and their mouths all too often.
Weston is acting like a punk and we already have one Longo. Simply put, the decision by the library to not make a ham-handed overkill decision probably kept bad publicity AND costs to a minimum. Grow up Weston…already had one meeting with you acting like a spoiled brat. We don’t need another.
I haven’t read the other comments, but I was very disquieted when I read today’s news item about Mayor Weston’s stand against the Bangor Public Library. His attitude towards the library engenders punitive divisiveness rather than the promotion of working together by addressing truly important issues that our city faces. It appears he has shown a “LePage-ist” side of dealing with those who disagree with him. As my dear father would have said, “Knock it off, will you!”
His stand was absolutely not about the Bangor Public Library. It was a question about the right for a public place, funded with tax dollars from both Occupiers and (largely) non-Occupiers to be used for a political event supporting the one but not the other.
Thank you.
When did the library prohibit people from protesting the Occupiers?
“….I don’t want to see this become a political thing”? It became a political thing when the Board allowed the Occupy group to remain, in direct violation of city ordinances. Freedom of speech is one thing; breaking the law is something entirely different. These protesters have never been denied their freedom to speak and to say otherwise is disingenous, at best. I think the American taxpayers have been more than patient with the movement, especially given the money and manpower costs here and nationally.
No laws were broken. You are allowed your opinion even if it is uninformed by facts, data. But it certainly lacks credibility because of that lack.
Not true on public property – the Occupy people had no right to camp on the library grounds. Weston is correct.
Under which ordinance?
“No laws were broken” and you want to call others misinformed? You might start by taking your own advice and researching what the laws are on staying in the park overnight?? Just sayin………..
Jeez, for the millionth time: The library grounds are not part of Peirce Park.
Sounds like another Mural Morass. Ironically, the Mural vividly depicts the history of Maine workers. It was censored and removed by the Tea Party’s Le Page.
The protesters are part of a national movement attempting to narrow the disparities between the filthy rich and the struggling workers of America.
Chairman Weston is wielding his baton of authority. But, as an elected servant for the people of Bangor, threatening to cut library funds because of a difference of opinion, follows in the same rut as Le Page’s ostentatious declarations.
The library and its trustees wisely averted problems by talking with the protesters. As a result, an amiable conclusion was reached. The issue was solved. But Weston had to demonstrate a “power” he believes he inherited with the chair he sits in.
Weston was correct. The library was not, which is why they asked the protesters to leave the grounds.
LOL!!!
McDade said she hopes the issue doesn’t imperil library funding.
“I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re open to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” she said.
The library became a ‘political thing’ when they went against the city policy. Their budget should be cut at least the amount that they cost the city by allowing the campers for the time that they did.
It is not great policy to thumb your nose at the people you expect to support you. I would like to see the state funding (my money) removed as well.
Occupy is not about free speech. It is about bullying people with other views.
Agreed. If the Tea Party had decided to camp out on the library lawn, somehow I think the library board’s reaction would have been different. The same rules are supposed to apply to everyone, regardless how “worthy” their agenda might seem.
Not to mention, the library’s actions placed the facility (and through them, possibly the city) in a liability situation. If someone had been injured while staying on the library property, the lawsuits would have been prompt, and likely successful.
The library’s reaction may have been different indeed. The tea party, with their penchant for carrying guns and threats of violence inherent in carrying a gun, is SIGNIFICANTLY different than an AVOWED peaceful, non-violent movement. Even though many of the grievances that the Occupy movement expresses are in line with tea party grievances, this reliance on implicit violence in much of how the tea party presents itself is cause for concern. It is an academic argument, of course, the tea party didn’t camp out on library property, but the tea party’s implicit threats to “water the tree of liberty” with blood, as some have so publicly expressed, are not the same as peaceful, non-violent protest.
Oh, please. Doesn’t the drammmmaaaaa make you tired?
Yeah, it does… All the gun toting shout downs I had to be made aware of… the Giffords incident… very, very tiring. Too much drama for a peaceful, non-violent protester, to be sure.
Yet another example of Weston’s arrogance. To publicly humiliate three of Bangor’s finest, most generous citizens in a public meeting, in front of the cameras is nothing more than political grandstanding similar to Llongo’s release of his letter to Waterfront Concerts. Sharing any concerns or thoughts Mr. Weston might have in a private setting over coffee with Mr. Minsky would have been much more appropriate and effective than a public tongue lashing and a veiled threat of a budget cut to our library.
Maine can collectively see where such PC tactics have landed us, over the last 30+ years. Weston was within his rights to ask the questions, and a public meeting was exactly the proper venue. He, like every other council member, is mandated to conduct board business within the board room, not behind closed doors. That’s state law. It’s called public access, and is also mandated under Federal Freedom of Access laws.
Meanwhile, if the library wants to operate as an independent entity, they need to find the 60% budgetary funding elsewhere than the city in which they operate.
The mayor should be proud of the sensible and responsible way the library leaders handled the situation. Few things are more precious in our democracy than free speech and that is what was advanced in this case. It was a positive experience all around, as the library’s survey indicates. The mayor’s antagonism toward the library seems petty and puzzling. It is also divisive.
Not a good move, Mr. Mayor.
I think the whole argument is rather simple. The Occupy Bangor Movement camped out in Pierce Park for about a month 24/7. The City of Bangor apparently has an ordinance prohibiting people in their parks between the hours of 10p.m. and 6a.m. ( what happens to the couple out for late night strool ?) .
The last I knew the people employed to run the library ran the library and the individuals employed as policemen enforced the City’s ordinances. If Mr Weston was so concerned at the time he should have asked the City’s police force to enforce the City’s ordinance.
This sounds a lot like political ambush. Perhaps Mr Weston is more concerned with scoring political points. And perhaps the reason he did not make an issue of it at the time was the political landmine the Occupy Movement was and may remain.
Weston’s comments are fairly disingenuous. Throughout the Occupy occupation, there were at least two semi-permanent structures completely on the city’s side of the property line. The library may have extended a hand in allowing overnight camping on its property, but the city did not seek to oust them from the city’s property. In fact, I do believe the city met with Occupy organizers & permitted them to construct & leave up those structures. So, why act as though only the library drained the city’s resources & time on this issue?
My one cent (adjusted for the still ongoing recession), the city hoped all along to later bring Occupy back up to aid in the justification of budget cuts to the library the council knew all along would most likely have to made anyway. Weston is playing fairly dirty ball here.
Also, if you watch the video of the council meeting with the library director & the board, you see that two councilors spoke favorably about the library, possibly sensing the angle Weston was later to take. No other councilors spoke one way or the other.
Would those that contend that this a free speech issue feel the same if before the “Occupy” encampment is set up this summer anti Occupy group set up an encampment and stayed the whole summer and kept the occupy people out?
This would be as much about ferr speech as tast fall. Do you think that the library would allow this encampment?
Ms McDade is quoted as saying “I just hate to see library funding become a divisive issue. We’re open to everyone and I don’t want to see this become a political thing,” which is nonsense. This was political from day one.
My opinion and I have no say since I am neither a resident of Bangor or a user of the library
“. McDade said while many library patrons didn’t agree with Occupy Bangor members, two-thirds of patrons said they supported the library’s decision to allow them to stay on its grounds.”
.
One small problem. “Library patrons” isn’t an identical group to “Bangor resident taxpayers” who provide 60% of the library’s revenue. McDade is listening to the wrong audience. Why, did you know that 100% of users of the Bangor Smoke Shop do not support Bangor ordinances against smoking? Shocking stat, I say, shocking! McDade’s 2/3 stat is equally meaningless. But it’s a usual bandwagonny tactic of a leftwing mentality. Who cares if there’s a city ordinance if 2/3 of library “patrons” feel differently.
Please take a moment to contact Cary Weston and let him know that you don’t support the Library having their funding cut. And, please, do it politely. If he’s really looking to make “an objective decision as to whether we’re spending our taxpayers’ money the right way.” then let him know you feel the same way that I do, that regardless of your opinion about the Occupy Bangor protests last fall, the Bangor Library is an invaluable asset to our community and deserves to be funded.
Carey do you actually think Mayor Weston cares what the people think??.. Answer me this OK.. How many contracts and how much money does Mayor Weston have in contracts between his company and the city. maybe 1/2 to 1 millon a year… we could use some of that money to fund the Library don’t you think? Why be nice one when one uses his public local government position in power to benifit himself. then cry about a couple protesters.
He replied to me in a civil manner, when I contacted him about this issue today and I will treat him in the same way and encourage others to do likewise.
I disagree with Mr Weston completely on this issue being a reason to cut the Library’s funding, but calling him names in the BDN forum isn’t going to do any good either, civil discourse is something that we need to be able to have if problems are going to get adressed.
From last fall’s article about Occupy.
People upset with the city’s decision to enforce the no-camping rule
have been calling city councilors all day, City Councilor Cary Weston
said Friday evening. Some callers have become upset and uncivil but have
stopped short of making threats, he said.
“Generally, callers are asking us to reconsider the camping ban,”
Weston said. “None of these folks live in Bangor. Their comments range
from the tame — ‘You don’t understand the movement’ — to ‘You’re an
insensitive, heartless idiot who hates America.’”
Weston, who operates a communications and public relations firm in
Bangor, said the group’s broader message seemed to be getting lost while
its supporters focused on the rules around camping in public parks in
Bangor.
“They are coming into our community,” he said. “They should respect the rules already in place.”
A portable toilet has been placed in the park, Weston said.
— removed the double posting from the moderation–
You’re moderating my comments now? What did I do? Edit–Thank you for posting my below comment. Why it needed moderation, I have no idea.
rules and regulations prevent free speech period…
Free speech.. you might find this interesting or sad or scary
http://tinyurl.com/6tflhq8
Just more of the same old, same old from the Liberal segment of society, laws, rules and regulations only apply if they run parallel to and support the goals of the left. Otherwise those laws, rules and regulations are meant to be be applied to others. There are rules in effect that clearly state that overnight camping out or loitering on city property may not be done. End of story, end of whining, end of bloviating by the pompous and arrogant shiftless miscreants. Gavel down….next issue?
“There are rules in effect that clearly state that overnight camping out or loitering on city property may not be done.”
You might want to actually read the city ordinances. People are prohibited from camping in PARKS and from being in PARKS from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
—–
Yeah, that miscreant Martin Luther King, or Gandhi, or Gene Sharp, or Henry David Thoreau… all advocates of peaceful, non-violent civil disobedience… shiftless miscreants to a man…
Some people will bend over backwards to let creeping fascism destroy this country and be none the wiser for it… can’t happen here, right, Russ?
And by how much were city resources impacted by the occupation? Did Weston say? Does he even know? Does he have an honest concern or is he busy blowing smoke?
Occupy hasn’t gone away. It is organizing to pass Constitutional amendments that reverse the perverse, un-American Citizen’s United SCOTUS decision, and to get the corruption of money out of our politics. The People are no longer represented by a Congress that spends the lion’s share of their time soliciting funds from lobbyist and supporters rather than doing the people’s business. There is a quid pro quo among the corporate donors and their bought and paid for representatives whether they be in State or Federal legislative bodies.
Up to 73% of Americans have expressed their will for a single payer health care system. Not even on the table, regardless of whether the table is seated with dems or repugs. The will of the people is secondary to the will of the corporate and wealthy minders of bought and paid for representatives.
Corporations such as Monsanto or Nestle force their profit taking agendas on communities with the help of the bought and paid for politicians contaminating your food with UN-TESTED transgenic experiments or taking one of Maine’s natural resources, ground water, for free and selling it back to Mainers in the form of Poland Springs bottled water.
Weston ought to better inform himself. It is uninformed people like him that let the corporatocracy profit while people are suffering unable to feed, warm, clothe themselves as they lose their jobs, homes, livelihoods… Thank the Occupy Movement for making this part of the national conversation.
Remind me again, its been awhile – “single payer system” —
Is that like what the VA is or has now?
Or is that Medicare type system which admits that they have over a $50 BILLION not million in fraud every year.
Or is that like in the UK where babies are born on the street because of lack of facilities.
Or ..
Or ..
Yeah, like the VA. The people that use it are quite happy with their coverage, care, the fact that a public good is dispensed efficiently, with less problems with claims than a for-profit company that is always looking out for the shareholder rather than the patient… And then there are those Death Panels in the private industry… BCBS in so. portland calls it Cost Containment… my wife used to work for that department… making decisions that impact life or death decisions based on a profit motive… Which actually gets back to my original point… the corporatocracy that places profit over people, and the bought and paid for politicians that buy into the corporatocracy.
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2009/May/Elderly-Medicare-Beneficiaries-Give-Their-Coverage-Higher-Ratings.aspx
Fraud…? That says much, much more about American citizens than it does about a well liked government program. Ungrateful ingrates…
What is $60b as a percentage of total expenditures for Medicare? Zero in on the frauds and close that gap and save some portion of that $60b. The bigger fraud, I might argue, is those profitting off of people’s illness, and how some tend to response… with a YOYO attitude… “you’re on your own,””too bad you’re sick… but that’s your problem, not mine…” It comes around again to how citizen’s attitudes play out… for a big part of this country it is either the people have no problem committing fraud, or else the attitude is leave the sick and disable to their own devices, it is not my problem.
I guess that is why we go around dropping bombs on wedding parties in Afghanistan or Pakistan, torture people and send them to Guantanomo with no hope of ever leaving and no charges against them either, or destroy whole countries wholesale, like Iraq, so we can take their resources… Nice picture, Frank? Oh yeah, spending TRILLIONS doing so… talk about fraud, Frank. Talk about waste…
Actually, my mistake, Frank… Not like the VA. The VA is actually a socialist system- government owned hospitals, government employed staff. Medicare is not that. It is NOT socialist, like the VA. Single-payer would be something that would actually save money over the extensive duplication that now occurs with for-profit insurance, the time and effort wasted with all the forms and paper work, the administration costs… So, no, not like the VA. The VA is socialism to benefit our returning soldiers… (OMG, not socialism??? Yep, sorry Frank…)
Did the title of this article change?
I think it did. And it didn’t change for the better. I swear, the copy editors were fired. Last week’s gem had the University of Maine president “officially” taking office only last week, when the story was about a ceremony that had no bearing on the president’s status.
I’m still trying to figure out how the ceremonial beam lifted onto the new arena is the “highest point,” even though it’s a good 10 feet below roof level, which is 10 feet below the clock tower.
I have to agree with Councilor Weston. I would like to know how much the city spent or lost while the occupy Bangor participants were on library and city property. If the library receives 60% of its funding from Bangor and an additional $177,000 from the state (still public money) it should obey the laws of the city in which it resides. Unlike some other departments in the city, the library can solicit private funds. Perhaps if the library would like to make its own rules, and violate city law, the residents of Bangor should keep its 1.3 million dollars and let the library find it somewhere else.
Yeah, what good are libraries… all them books, all that learnin’, what good is that?
Well, Bangor citizen, it is all well and good making such low minded proclamations anonymously. I’ll bet you a dollar against a donut most Bangor citizen’s would take offense at your anti-intellectual position. Most people view libraries as a public good, something that benefits society, enriches a city’s culture, as centers of knowledge and enlightenment… most citizens…
Small minded partisanship is divisive, especially when it is over an issue surrounding the free speech rights of citizens concerned about the take over of our economy and politics by very, very narrow interests that seek their own profit and betterment against those, yourself included, that they see as less than deserving of a fair wage, a sound social status, health care, the ability to make a living.
I appreciate the Library’s determination to allow free speech. It can cost more, but it is what makes democracy work.
To raise this question in a budget meeting, was an ambush. If Councilor Weston was of this opinion during the event why didn’t he say so then? Possibly not with the prevailing political winds, maybe? Very inappropriate and it causes unnecessary anxiety for the Library’s city funding. For the record, I also disagreed with the Librarians decision to allow the protesters to us that area’, but you can bet i would have called her right away—not waited for several months to throw it in her face.
as forcritics of the libray’s hours, employee wages and benefits, check your FACTS before you make any assumptions!