BRUNSWICK, Maine — When Brunswick High School teacher McKell Barnes hung a T-shirt on her classroom wall that read “gay? fine by me,” she suspected it might elicit some reactions.
What Barnes didn’t expect when students arrived last Monday morning was for dozens of them to say they wanted a T-shirt like that of their own. So Barnes ordered 160 more, which she plans to sell at the school and on Facebook with profits to benefit Brunswick High School’s Gay-Straight Alliance.
“I was completely taken off-guard,” said Barnes, a first-year math teacher who has launched the project with three other faculty members with whom she team-teaches the school’s Sophomore Academy program. “The response has been incredible.”
On March 16, Barnes and the rest of the school’s faculty attended an in-school workshop on the topic of creating a safe and accepting school environment for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered students. She was given the T-shirt at the end of the workshop, and with the agreement of the other teachers who use her classroom, decided to pin it to her wall. After the strong reaction from students, she posted her effort to sell the T-shirts on her Facebook page.
“At first I just sent it to my close friends and they encouraged me to spread the word,” she said. “Within a week, close to 600 people had joined [the Facebook page] and another 4,500 have been invited.”
Rights for gay people in Maine has been a controversial topic in recent years, including a gay marriage bill adopted by the Legislature in 2009, which was repealed later that year. This November, Maine voters will broach the subject again when they weigh in on a citizen-initiated bill that would allow same-sex marriage.
But none of that has anything to do with the T-shirt project at Brunswick High School, said Barnes and senior Julia Brown, who is president of the school’s Gay-Straight Alliance.
“This has zero political agenda behind it,” said Barnes, who is a 2007 Brunswick High School graduate. “It’s more about school bullying and learning to care about other people who are different from you. This has nothing to do with the referendum.”
Brown, who said the school’s Gay-Straight Alliance has about five active members, agreed. She said the alliance, which has about $21 in its bank account, will use the revenue from T-shirt sales to print more T-shirts and literature and perhaps to invite speakers to address the student body.
“Do we need the high school to be a comfortable place for LGBTQ youth to walk around? Absolutely,” said Brown. “I think it’s needed everywhere, to be honest. In this high school specifically there are always institutionalized places that are not safe for LGBTQ students, but then there are also individuals who need to be persuaded to acceptance and compassion. I think those are all universal traits that any school or community or society should be fostering.”
But there are some, such as Pastor Bob Emrich of Plymouth, a well-known opponent of past gay marriage initiatives and chairman of a group called Protect Marriage Maine in opposition to this November’s referendum, who don’t think a public school is an appropriate venue for such a conversation.
“I think this is way out of line for a teacher to be advocating a particular lifestyle,” he said. “The irony of this is pretty striking. The biggest criticism we had in the last campaign was that changing the definition of marriage would change discussions within our schools. That’s exactly what they are doing.”
Asked whether Barnes’ and Brown’s contention that the T-shirt project is about the wider issues of acceptance and bullying, Emrich said there are lots of ways to get that point across without bringing homosexuality into the discussion.
“The fact that people mistreat each other, whether it’s bullying or anything else, is just wrong,” he said. “To turn it into an issue of gay or straight minimizes that. Why not have T-shirts that say ‘Overweight? Fine by me’? Why don’t they do short or tall? You don’t see a tall-short alliance, do you? If this is really about bullying and people being treated fairly, why not do that? I would support that 100 percent.”
Shenna Bellows, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Maine, said there is nothing wrong with promoting conversations about alternative lifestyles in public places. In fact, she said the 2005 Maine Won’t Discriminate referendum protected such efforts in schools, workplaces and in publicly funded housing.
“This teacher’s actions support school safety, freedom of speech and respect for all students,” said Bellows. “The teacher’s expression in this case reflects a spirit of tolerance for gay students without doing any harm to anyone else. The first amendment of the constitution protects the right of students and teachers to wear this T-shirt and it protects the right of opponents such as Mr. Emrich to disagree. ”
Barnes isn’t alone in the project. Other faculty members, such as science teacher Andrew McCullough, who team-teaches with Barnes, also support the effort.
“To see these students come together in support of this cause is really amazing,” said McCullough. “I think we’re lucky that we have this group of students who want to latch onto this.”
Brunswick High School Principal Donna Borowick said having workshops in favor of creating a welcoming environment for gay students are hosted by the school every few years.
“I’m really proud of the kids for stepping up and seeing this as a way to support their fellow students,” she said.
Brunswick High sophomore Sierra Coomes said seeing the T-shirt on the classroom wall last Monday was “inspiring.”
“People here get harassed [for being gay] all the time,” she said. “I think this will help stop that.”
I bet if a student wore a “I Dubbya” shirt in this very high school four years ago they would have been sent home because it, “was too much of a distraction for the other students.”
Show me a situation where a student was sent home for supporting a current or former president.
My post started with, “I bet.” And students have been sent home from school for wearing American flag t-shirts.
I would be willing to bet that if a student wore a anti Omama shirt they would have caught all kinds of hell.
The teachers are there to EDUCATE the children. Not indoctrinate them. Teachers should be NEUTRAL.
Can students wear a T-shirt that says “GAY. FINE BY ME. GAY MARRIAGE. NOT FINE BY ME.” I betcha a bushel of Rainbow flags that it wouldn’t be.
Big double standard. Nothing but indoctrination and peer pressure by gay activists. Schools would being doing well to educate in the 3R’s and stay neutral on polarizing social topics.
Would you say the same if this was done beck in the 60’s about colored people ? This is no diffrent Gays are people to or did you an others forget ?
“You others” So your now singling out and demoralizing straight people? How about they print up some “Racist? fine by me” shirts to sell to students also?
Gays are people to or did you forget that ?? No im just showing you that gays are going thru the same thing that colored people did back in the 60s
How dare you to compare Homosexuality to the Treatment of black people.
Great poutrage there jimbob
Easy. One group is hated for the color of their skin and the other is hated for their sexual orientation. In each case, the group’s members were simply as nature made them. And in each case, these people would often be ridiculed, and in worse cases, beaten or killed for being black or gay.
Is that so hard to understand?
yes because you can choose to be gay – not natural for some
As a gay person, let me tell you that it was not a choice. How I let it affect my life is a choice. You shouldn’t confuse the two.
It is a decision you made. Black people getting beaten because of the color of their skin is in no way the same as the social decision you made.
To a degree, you’re correct. By that, I mean a gay person won’t be noticed unless there’s something obvious about him or her…such as holding hands with a partner, maybe dressing a certain way.
But don’t think that being gay…being attracted to persons of the same gender…is a decision. It’s no more so than your own sexual attractions. And would you want to have to hide who you are to avoid being bullied? I’m guessing not.
SORRY PAL. IF NOT ALL SOME DO HAVE A CHOICE AND MAKE THE CHOICE THAT IS WHY BEING GAY WILL NEVER EQUATE TO RACE AND THE LIKE
First off, I’m not your pal. I don’t know you at all, let alone well enough to let you call me your pal.
Secondly, all caps is yelling. Are you upset about something?
And finally, everyone can choose to be happy with who they are in life. Or to keep it hidden. Gay people shouldn’t have to feel inferior because of the actions of narrow-minded individuals. Your post tells me that you are in that category.
I hope that one day you’ll read or hear something that breaks through your walls of ignorance on this topic. I really do.
And what if someone were to say, “Hey, FrederickMueller, you have a German-sounding name.
I’ll bet you are a Nazi.” Once upon a time, people DID that, as I’m sure you know, thanks to Hitler. Do you want us to return to his kind of thinking? Once around that hell was enough.
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT BEING GAY IS DONE BY CHOICE. THERE IS PLENTY OF EVIDENCE IT IS GENETIC OR BIOCHEMICAL. LOOK IT UP, PAL.
Should religious affliation be protected from discrimination after all which religion you CHOOSE to follow is a choice so why should it be protected?
You don’t choose to be gay any more than you choose to be straight. Gays are born gay – or, if you’re the sort of person who believes in God, their Creator made them gay. Either way, it’s just a simple fact of nature.
Is there a gay gene?
Not one but most likely multiple genes at work.
Is eye color genetic or a choice? Why do I ask this, because no one gene has been found to determine the color of your eyes. There are a lot of things that we know to be genetic that we have not found the gene or genes resposible for it. Does that mean that only things that we have found the genes for are genetic?
And if it were a “choice” to be gay,why would anyone want to face the abuse heaped on them everyday by an unforgiving society?If you are a white heterosexual male in America,even one of modest income,you already start off better than 99.995% of the rest of the 7 billion.And that group has never lost a right EVER.
Because since the 70’s there is a group that socially inept can belong to.These people need help not enabling.If you can not distinguish between friendship and lust you have a problem.
Tell your “pastor” to get his facts right before you go repeating them, timjy.
I hope you’re drunk.There’s no other reason for such a pointless senseless post.And I’m sure you’d “help” the gays like Marcus Bachmann does.
Sorry but homosexuals have been around longer than the ’70’s. King James (of the King James version of the Bible) was gay amoung a whole lot of famous historical figures.
Some Native American cultures revered homosexuals as special prophets from God.
WRONG SOME DO KEEP SPREADING LIES
Well I choose to treat every single human being as an equal…but I’m about to make an exception for those who wander through life without a brain.
It is not a choice. Do you honestly think that anyone in their right mind would choose to be ridiculed, harrassed and tortured by idiots throughout their lives?
Being gay is not a choice.
I am straight and I could never choose to be gay. I am not attracted to other men, period, if I was gay then I would not be attracted to women. Niether being gay or straight is a choice, you are born with your sexual orientation.
If sexual orientation is a choice then gays could be made to be heterosexual and heterosexuals could be made gay. It doesn’t happen. The so-called religious “schools” that re-educate gays into being straight do not work not matter how hard they try to indoctrinate.
Has science found a gay gene ?
The cause remains elusive, but as a gay person who lives it every day…trust me, it’s part of my nature.
You know what? I’ve always thought how ironic it would be if all these “christian” judges down here die, and get to heaven…only to find out that Jesus, Himself, is gay.
Like the All In The Family episode that won an Emmy where Archie thinks he died and God turns out to be Sammy Davis Jr. who kisses him.
Yes! Thanks, GP. I think it was you who mentioned that a while ago and I meant to order it online. Meanwhile, I’m going to forward your comment to that teacher in Brunswick, if you don’t mind. What a great teaching tool it would make.
Well, he never married but hung out with a bunch of dudes.
not to get off point here, but there is no specific gene that codes for any particular trait. genes are coded to produce proteins. It’s numbers and concentrations of proteins that do the heavy lifting and control everything that goes on in your body from eye color to what sex you want to be with. There are genes that are more active for certain traits but there is no such thing as one gene, one trait. Saying things like “gay gene” sound all ‘sciencey’ and stuff but comes off as ignorant to anyone who anyone who paid attention in their bio 100 course.
Not one but most likely multiple genes at work.
Is eye color genetic or a choice? Why do I ask this, because no one gene has been found to determine the color of your eyes. There are a lot of things that we know to be genetic that we have not found the gene or genes resposible for it. Does that mean that only things that we have found the genes for are genetic?
Shameful!
Huh?
Naw. Shameful is people like you timjy, who need to be put in a line so that we could innoculate you w/whatever it takes…genes,dna…to be gay for a day. Maybe then you’ll develop something they don’t teach in these “christian” cults: compassion.
you would be wrong, Black peoples plight was a constitutional issue resolved by federal mandate and the courts. The gay issue is a matter of public opinion state by state and public vote it is societal choice it is in no way the same – that is because you can choose to be gay – and yes i understand some say they were born that way- but others can still choose- you cannot chose your race.
I would bet if the race issue was left to popular vote it would have taken much longer in some states
Africans were not hated because of the color of their skin, thats a lame reason. They were hated cause the beige guy underestimated their intelligence and got scared when they realized Africans were just as smart as they were, so they pushed hate and figured even kids can relate by color.
Where’s our self appointed teacher Cary when we need him/her? They would be here correcting your writing if you were posting the opposite view.
In no way are gays going through the same.This is the most ridiculous and hateful excuse for gays i have ever seen.homosexuality is in no way the same as what black people had to endure.Talk about hate speech!
He said “You and others” not you others, as you stated…he wasnt singling out a group of people or generalizing other than to say that those against gay people. I didnt take his comment as racist at all, instead he was comparing the hatred towards blacks in the 60’s to the hatred you display now…As for the shirt idea, i dont imagine that would be called for in any society, and cannot imagine anyone would be wearing it for very long.
Sorry I read it wrong, still has the same meaning in my eyes. Not everyone one agrees with this, we all have our own opinions. Im not a racist nor do i hate homosexuals. I just have my own opion like everyone else. Not all straight people hate gays, thats their choice to be gay, like it’s straight peoples choice to be straight. Doesn’t mean we have to agree with it.
So you choose to be straight but if you saw a really cute guy you could “choose” to be gay but just that once?
Being a racist is a choice, being a bigot is a choice, being a homophobe is a choice but being gay is not a choice.
Nice shot at attempting to twist Woolydevil’s words, Ryan. Any chance you could take a class in Logical Thinking?
Leaving out “an” is far from twisting words.
There is a difference. Africans were stolen from their homes and forced in to slavery. Gays were not stolen from their homelands and forced into homosexuality.
Nice try at twisting the story. I would say that kind of stuff if the black people were gay and wanted to marry !
It’s sad you think that treating each other with respect, kindness, and equality is a polarizing social topic.
The right-winged, christians (small “c”) do everything they can to polarize society, but there are enough of us left (pun intended) to stop them in their tracks.
just vote.
For sure, danwent7. In fact, this great grandma and my husband were pleasantly surprised last fall when we petitioned at the polls and got so many signatures.
wonderful fighting to fundamentally change the united states. I do believe we have a squatter in the white house doing the same. We have 7-10% of the U.S telling 90% what society should be.If they get their way the U.S will look like barter town AKA Obamavilles.
Ah,but you see there are still people w/intelligence and that is why President Obama is there.
In addition, he is very intelligent, which is a far cry from what we have in the Blaine House.
Barack Obama was democratically elected to the office of President of the United States. You may not like him, but in no way whatsoever is he a “squatter.”
This President isn’t the one who stole an election.
Your math is as pathetic as your message. Fortunately for the Nation your hateful views represent a tiny minority in this great land. I can’t wait until election night when Obama wins by 10 points and all you can do is squirm.
Such hatred…thought you were all about peace? Sounds pretty vengeful to me!
Kind of like when they passed that damn 19th Amendment and women got the right to vote? Before that all citizens were defined as men. Why did we have to “redefine voting”? Weren’t those the good old days? So here is a question for you. If only 10% of America were African-american would that mean they should still be slaves or not have the right to vote? Is equal only for the majority? Do you feel your neighbors should be able to tell you that you and your spouse can’t be married because they don’t agree with your right to be married? They outnumber you and that is all that matters right? Your rights don’t matter if there are more people than you who don’t want you to have the same rights as them correct?
Oh, here is a not very well kept secret but apparently you don’t know it. If you count in bisexuals the percentage is over 50%. You’re outnumbered.
Say what you will…call us “small c christians…but in the end…ALL including Christians…will stand before God. What a day that will be.
AMEN !
That will be quite a surprise for the atheists.
Oh Glory Be. And what, pray tell, will you do when you discover that God, Himself, is gay and hasn’t liked you trying to do His job all this time? Ever think of that?
Please read all that I wrote…ALL will be judged. That includes myself. Not trying to do God’s job…wouldn’t want it.
Yup, and He’ll remind you that He was to judge, not you. You’ll be held accountable for the way you treated the children he created, gay and straight alike. God help and forgive you for your sins.
That’s why I said all Donna Griffin…ALL. I’m a sinner just like you.
I think you will be really disappointed if that day happens.
Disappointed? Nope. I don’t think so. If you are a doubter…you may.
Why don’t we respect kids who want to expose their Christian values by praying by a flag pole or in any other school situation….”now wait a minute we can’t have that!”…so hypocritical.
Please note religion is separated from the state (schools) by the Constitution.
Actually it says ”
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” Doesnt say anything about States : )
And simply allowing children to pray around a flag pole is not a law, NOR establishment. People just don’t understand the First Amendment do they? : )
People misunderstand the true meaning of the freedom of religion as set forth in the constitution and have tried to turn into a freedom from religion issue.
Freedom from religion is an expression of religious freedom. Those who believe in fairytales and bedtime stories have churches in which to exercise their religious freedoms. Well as long as they don’t hurt anyone, Waco’s Davidians and the like aren’t protected. However, public schools, lands, etc are not the places to express religious freedoms as it can be seen as a government entities (town, city, county, state, or federal governments) seal of approval for that particular religion.
As far as this t-shirt goes, there is a huge difference. Bullying is the hot topic, and as gay teens are one of the top groups who are bullied, therefore it makes sense to teach tolerance. No one is asking these kids to be gay, no one is even asking these kids to like homosexuality. All they are asking is that these kids tolerate their homosexual classmates. Tolerance is a far cry from acceptance, and yes it does fall to the school to educate kids on tolerance in an effort to stop bullying.
Dane, I agree that we should be tolerant of others and that those conversations should take place in classrooms. Im concerned though that at times the conversations go beyond that.
..including the resident of 1600
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law – Amendment XIV, Section 1, The Contstitution of the United States of America. This seems to cover the business of whether states can pass laws regarding the establishment of religion, doesn’t it? If Congress cannot interfere with religious freedom in such a way, doesn’t it follow that state legislatures cannot do so?
The big issue is that a group of ___(fill in the blank) wants to take away another groups ___(fill in the blank). If you allow one group to command more respect than another (irregardless of what the blank is) then it is wrong. What we are showing our children is that anyone that doesn’t look, feel, believe exactly like we do is wrong. This sure isn’t a good way to educate our children on tolerance!
Perhaps you haven’t heard of the 14th Amendment and the cases incorporating the entire bill of rights through it to apply to all States as well as the federal government. So yeah, it applies to States too.
Please note Freedom of Religion is protected by the Constitution as well.
as is the freedom From religion
Freedom of religion and separation of church and state are one in the same. See the First Amendment. Religion is free of control from the government because of this separation. You can’t demand this freedom for your religion and then demand that your religion have influence over governmental policy…unless you are a hypocrite of course.
The Constitution DOES NOT separate church and state. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution is that mentioned.
Article Six and The First Amendment have been removed from the Constitution ?
Since when ?
I fail to see where this separates church and state. Perhaps you’re reading another Constitution. Here is Article 6: All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
Now, here’s the 1st Amendment. Again, nothing about separation of Church and State.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Finally, what has this got to do with the “social engineering” of our children in the public schools. The t-shirt in question is bigoted, at best. If another teacher were to put up a shirt that said, “Straight? Fine by me.” You can bet that the gay/lesbian community would be crying foul. Schools should do their frigging job and stick to teaching academics so that maybe this country won’t be lagging so far behind on the world stage of education. China, Japan, and most European countries are turning out far superior students then we are, especially in the areas of science and math. Our schools seem to be too busy fulfilling a socialist agenda.
YES ,keep the sick gay agenda out of school
“If another teacher were to put up a shirt that said, “Straight? Fine by
me.” You can bet that the gay/lesbian community would be crying foul.”
I actually think you’re wrong about that. We’re trying to instill acceptance, not political correctness. Would be the same if the school were having a problem with racism and there were shirts that said “Black? Fine by me.”
I can envision it for a number of groups..
Dorky? Egotistic? Conservative?
Fine by me!!
<3
I admire your optimism.
Why in the world would homosexuals be opposed to a pro-heterosexual t-short? Yeah! Go heterosexuals! It’s bigots the gays don’t like. That is why you aren’t feeling the love. Bigots and homophobes likely in the closet (like you) don’t get respect from homosexuals. It isn’t hate though, likely pity. Gay or straight it is all fine. What this t-shirt is talking about is tolerance. Our children are being taught hate at home and bringing it to school where the teachers are responsible for stopping the bullying and terror that is causing children to take their lives to free themselves from what seems to be endless misery.
For the record,” Christian, fine by me”, “Jewish, fine by me”, “Black, fine by me”. If this issue was segregation in our schools or inter-racial marriage most of us would be on the same side. Can you imagine if an African-American man and a Caucasian woman were asking for permission to marry and their neighbors got to vote on it? That was redefining marriage at one point. Actually a father not trading his daughter for goats was redefining marriage at one point but we’re okay with that now aren’t we. We’re all humans and all equal and if you think you get to vote on someone else’s marriage rights that is disgusting. You are on the wrong side of history. All you are doing is keeping someone down and telling these poor kids in school that they aren’t as good as someone else and telling other kids it is okay to bullying and abuse gay kids because they aren’t equal, they aren’t human, so treat them like less. Their parents agree and vote that way.
If you will do a little more research you will find this is adopted from the Virgina Constitution, which Thomas Jefferson wrote, and the phrase “separation of church and state” is the phrase he used to describe it.
I have done plenty of research, and I am correct in what I said. If you pay closer attention, you will see that I was responding to, Roostookguy who suggested that Article 6 and the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution had been breached. Again, I assert that you will simply not find the separation of church and state anywhere in the Constitution. Now, did Jefferson “discuss” it? Most certainly he did, but let’s be clear, the Framers discussed many, many things that never found their way into our Constitution.
You are correct that the words “separation of church and state” do not appear in the US Constitution. No one has ever claimed those words are there. But pointing that out is a trivial childish attempt to claim the phrase does not apply to the first amendment. In 1802, in a letter to Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, President Thomas Jefferson wrote the following;
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contmplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or of prohibiting the free excercise therof”, thus building a wall of separation between church & state”.
You can also look up James Madison in a debate in 1789 in the House Of Representatives. The first amendment is what the phrase ” a separation of (between) church and state” refers to, and stating it does not appear in the US Constitution is a futile attempt to assert that is not what the amendment means.
There, finally we’re getting to the truth. It takes all of this time for someone to admit that those words never appear in the Constitution. Is separation of church and state law, yes indeed, but I needed to push back against those who say, and imply that this appears in our Constitution, and please don’t tell me that nobody said that.. One only has to go back through this thread to see that. I am sick and tired of uninformed people erroneously quoting the Constitution. Good God, pick up a copy and actually read the damn thing.
If you had been following any posts of mine concerning this, going back several months, you would have seen that I have explained this several times. No one has claimed any thing other than the fact that that is how the Ist Amendment has been interpreted since at least the Supreme Court rulings in 1878. They at the time had to rely on the writings of the framers of the Constitution because the word “religion” is not defined in the Constitution. Their decisions since 1878 concerning the meanings of various articles and phrases has had to rely on other writings of the framers because often the definition of a word changes, and they wanted an interpretation as close to the intent of the original writers as possible. That is why Jefferson’s “separation between church and state” has become the phrase used to describe the Ist amendment.
The only thing I can agree with you on, is your statement where you admit that you fail to see how this separates church and state.
The fact that the constitution makes clear that you can not require ANY religious test to hold office, and that no law favoring one religion over another, to you, is not a separation.
Your lack of understanding of the Constitution, it’s historical context, and the legal ramifications are far beyond the scope of this forum.
You need to take some classes. It really is that simple.
This started as a conversation surrounding an article on the public school. Your posts prove my point that beyond any doubt, the current education system has failed.
No, there is nothing childish about it. It is factual. You are a revisionist. Who are you to determine that comments made by anyone of the period applies to the Constitution. George Washington was very much a Christian and on more than one occasion, made reference that the new nation could not be governed without God. Now, since you have liberally applied Jefferson’s comments to be included as part of the Constitution, may I take the same liberty with those of Washington? Look, I can do this all say with you if you want, but the Constitution says what it says, and just because you find a letter authored by Jefferson that conveniently fits your personal politics, it doesn’t mean that it should be incorporated into the single most important document of our Nation. Now, I’ve made my point and I’ll leave it at that. You may have the last word.
Again, no one has ever claimed that the words “separation of church and state” appears in the US Constitution. All that has ever been said is that Thomas Jefferson described that particular section of that particular amendment in those terms, and all that has ever been done is to use Jefferson’s words in that context. Repeatedly claiming the words do not appear in the Constitution is childish because no one has ever claimed that.
Actually, you are being the revisionist here.
Even the Supreme Court in their rulings have referred MANY TIMES to the separation of church and state.I don’t know where it is you are getting your misinformation about US history and the Constitution, but it obviously is not an even remotely credible source.
Do tell us where you’ve done your “research”.
Because it certainly isn’t via any legitimate constitutional scholar.
The First Amendment, in stating that government has no control over religion, separates state and government. It goes both ways though. Government doesn’t get to tell people how to worship and churches don’t get to tell the government how to run the country. We can’t have it just one way. When you want freedom of religion then it means you keep your religion out of politics also. That is what the First Amendment states. Go ahead and look for an interpretation if you don’t understand how to read it and you aren’t familiar with the Constitution and the Amendments. Sad that people live in this country and don’t know these things.
Donna, show me, beyond your own personal, and liberal interpretation of the U.S. Constitution where it specifically uses the phrase, “separation between church and state.” talk about a lack of education.
Whats that little phrase most dems are trying to remove.One nation under god.Need to go back to mornings repeating this in the classroom.Time to show our nation some respect.The dems have been attacking this country way to long
“One Nation Under God” was never a part of America’s heritage until the 1950’s, when anti-Communist fear-mongerers decided it was their duty to force all Americans to accept God into their lives. In fact, the Founding Fathers were highly skeptical of Christianity, and even those who were believers wanted to keep religion out of government. The more you know!
So acceptance is a party issue? Where does that leave the reps?
There was no mention of God in the Pledge of Allegience nor was In God We Trust on money until the 1950’s. It was put in the pledge and on the money as a response to the threat of World Domination by the Communists
Actually “In God We Trust” first appeared on US coins on the 1864 two cent piece, but your point is well made.
Well, we are not longer living in the 1950’s and GOD is in the Pledge of Allegience and on our AMERICAN money. Give GOD some respect
Nothing I said was disrespectful.
I happen to have respect for people of religion who actually live the way it says in their holy books. I do not, however, respect people who use God or religion to hide behind when they show their ignorance, prejudice or bigotry.
no its not its says make no law , nothing about seperation
They can, on flag day we had a group of studends hold hands and say a pray? Its funny that a pastor finds this so bad, yet they want the schools to teach creationism.
Straw man argument, I have never opposed students who want to pray in school.
My daughter and I was talking about this whole thing the other day. Not about the school as I’ve just now read this. My daughter is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.She has friends that are gay and some that are both. Whatever, What she told me was, yes,she cares for her friends and I know for a fact that she really loves one of them, BUT ! DO NOT TEACH IT TO HER CHILDREN ! She would not be ok with that shirt in that classroom. I will say this, They will most likely get thier marrage rights this time,and thats ok, …SCHOOL IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS ! STOP trying to make everyone like what some think is wrong… When my granddaughter went to school for the first time,she and some of her little friends were talking about Jesus on the playground, the teacher walked up to my granddaughter and said,,,,,we do not talk about Jesus at school and your not to every do it again.Some of you may not believe this happend and thats ok too. I know it did and all I could think of at the time was, What must Jesus think of that one. It’s not ok to talk about the Lord but its fine to print up a bunch of gay loving shirts and sell them at school. NICE ! I think it might be time to take the kids out of school and start home schooling them all. THE END !
Lets not teach acceptance to our children. Lets make sure they continue to hold the bigotries of the past.
You can’t teach religion in school since we don’t have a state religion.You can teach children that they are all the same no matter what their race, religion, gender, or sexual preference.That’s lawful, that’s proper, that’s what is needed.Perhaps you do need to homeschool your grandkids, I’m sure they need lessons in narrow mindedness.
Amen!
Ode to the Tea Party
(or “Owed” to the Tea Party)
I’m a narrow-minded hypocrite
and I don’t give a _hit
‘bout anyone but me.
I’ve got a pit bull and a pistol;
A daughter I named Bristol.
And I get crazy drunk with tea.
Got me a mess of cool tattoos
and I love the reds and whites and blues
on our good old US flag.
I go to church and I am saved
from those awful, sinful fags.
But there is one thing missing.
I need some help in ‘dissing
all those who disagree.
So tell me, quick, where do I go
to join the GOP?
I love to show libs their ways
They need to see the light.
And when I do with praise
their answer is, take a big bite.
The Dems love to be the nanny
And always meddle with our lives
It costs a lot of serious money
To fund these rainbow lives
Now if we could just live and let live
And drill for our own growing concern
We’d be far less involved with Kiev
Riyadh, Shanghai and Afghanistan
Thank you for showing your bigotry.
You’re very welcome. I reserve it for those bigots who make mine look like a hand slap.
Enjoy your paranoia, “government IS the problem.”
No. ” Lets” (sic) do teach acceptance to our children. The contraction is of “let us” and that’s exactly who should address the topic; us and in our own homes, not teachers paid to teach math.
Would you be so eager to delegate that responsibility to the school if the math teacher was an atheist or Muslim or hated gays? I think not. Just because you agree with the message doesn’t mean that the forum is right for the message.
The math teacher could easily be an atheist or a Muslim. In fact they may be. Who is to know unless they are proselytizing, or are asked directly?
Or are you saying our children shouldn’t be taught by atheists or Muslims?Tell me, Paytreot, what is your definition of Freedom?
paytreot simply means (sorry to speak for you) if the t-shirt mentioned something like “Disbelieve the Word – it’s OK by me” or –you know, I don’t even want to go there with the Muslim t-shirt, but use your imagination. How about off the religion topic, and a shirt saying “muffin top – not OK by me,” and we will enforce students to lose weight and feel bad about themselves. If my child needs to lose weight, I will take of that as a parent, not the school. School is not for this purpose. Sort of like taking kids on a school trip to the movies to see “The Hunger Games.” Couldn’t find something more productive like a museum, or even a theater play?
There is a difference between teaching tolerance and telling people there is only one “correct” way to think.
then goahead and home school them-you’d better refresh your spelling and punctuation before you try to teach it…just saying…
I thought the same thing – what must Allah and Mohammed think of the children not being allowed to be called to pray fives times per day in school? It says we must right in the only TRUE holy book, the Koran. The kids are not even allowed to speak of the true word of Allah, nor to encourage their friends to join our faith. What must Allah think of us?
And, the T-shirt in classes? Appalling the school allowing the teaching of the diversity of American life. My grandfather was in Selma, Alabama, manning one of the fire hoses back when those darkies started getting all uppity. The idea of teaching integration in school! They can be integrated someplace else, BUT DO NOT TEACH IT TO THE CHILDREN! Can you imagine those darkies wanting the right to marry our white women! Think of the children! SCHOOL IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS! Thankfully, George Wallace is on our side. Those Kennedy boys need to STOP trying to make everyone like what some think is wrong. You are right about homeschooling – if we take the kids out of public school and teach them at home, they should get a real education, free from exposure to minorities, learn the true way just as I did, and be fully prepared to move into the world later in life!
(Thanks, pegton, you really have opened my eyes on this one.)
I honestly think its gonna be a close race again. But i think its gonna fail. Alot of peeps signed there paper to get them to leave them alone. Its ignorant to do that, but still i think its gonna be close, we will find out in NOvember
Noone can be stopped from praying in school. How can you be stopped from closing your eyes, tilting your head and clasping your hands together and saying a SILENT prayer?
But that is not what the religious want. They want an organized religious prayer meeting that all can see just how rightous they are.
You can’t be stopped from that exercise but we better not catch you Tebowing
Tebowing is not praying, it’s grandstanding and making a fool of the person doing it.
One thousand likes! Once upon a time, people practiced their faith with the dignity it deserves…and then along came the right-winged evangelical/fundamentals who “talk the talk” but never “walk the walk.”
Maybe true when imitated, but when Mr. Tebow bows on one knee you may be absolutely sure he is thanking his Lord!
No I still believe it is grandstanding. I am a Broncos fan and was watching one game (I think it was a home game) and the camera panned to Tebow. He was sitting on the bench watching the game like a normal player until he noticed the camera was on him. He immediately started to pray. Unfortunately the camera had been on him for at least 5 seconds before he noticed.
Wow, pbmannm, tried to comment on you getting Manning, and both went to be reviewed – and I was giving you a complement – we so wanted him to pick the 49ers…sorry when there are 2 almost identical comments attached – geesh.
Thanks, I was so glad we got Manning not just because he is a great QB but also because it got rid of Tebow. He put the Broncos back a year or two but getting Manning helps recover some.
We could still use better draft picks but GO BRONCOS :)
Thank “God” he didn’t go to the 49ers…
They ultimately want exactly what you are saying so that they can intimidate non-believers. It is what the government apparently allowed to occur and fluorish at one of our service academys
Yes, unfortunatley the US Air Force Academy has been taken over by evangelical officers. the government has started to take steps to correct this but it may be too late.
No, it is you who are being hypocritical.
You, a christian, who is so un Christ like. Try acceptance not hate as you savior suggests.
I guess you will have no problem then when Muslim kids would like to do the same? How about Buddhists…Pagans etc…?
Absolutely! Pagan, okay by me! I’m a Christian. I don’t just go by the name though I actually practice my faith by being tolerant and loving. god judges not me. Isn’t that what Jesus taught us…I mean me? Muslims, super, Buddhists, great. It’s bigots and hypocrites that are the problem no matter their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. Gay bigots and Christian bigots are equally bad. Anyone who bullies is a problem and parents who teach that some are second class citizens are raising bullies.
You don’t get using kids to further this agenda is sick.
It is sick and they need to be stopped now. It has NO place in the schools.
Yup, school is a place for hatred and bigotry, not where kids can feel safe and be treated equally and learn and be respected…wait…what was that?
but it’s ok for kids to further the agenda of hate and bigotry ( that they most likely learned at home) by bullying others for who they are? It’s ok for kids to bully someone until they kill themselves? I’d rather the schools taught tolerance, and kindness to others.
Agenda…the one where all people are created equal? That’s sick? I think you are the one with the illness. Or is it the one where tell them not to abuse other people and drive them to suicide. Oh the crazy sickness continues.
I think that has become the problem in many people’s minds. We aren’t treating each other with respect, kindness and equality. What is considered acceptable for one group of people is being taken away by another.
It’s not the topic that’s polarizing, its using a public institution intended for education to do it that is. Schools should focus on education, not indoctrination into the PC liberal world of teachers.
No, it is haters like you that are polarizing.
Treating kids to teach each with respect is TEACHING! Maybe if parents were teaching equality at home this wouldn’t be an issue.
Again, where does it state a student was wearing one of these during school?
Don’t confuse the gay-haters with reasonable thinking…
Nowhere does it state that, but as usual, these narrow-minded, “christian”, right-winged folks only half read something before they draw their erroneous conclusions.
No wonder this country is so messed up. Stop being lazy and READ, people. LEARN. EDUCATE THYSELF.
Sorry, but there is nothing wrong with being gay–even though you think there is. It is because of people like you, who condemn gayness as sinful, that we need lots more education in school to teach children the truth–it is perfectly fine to be gay, and gay people should be proud that they are standing up courageously to all the hatred and ignorance that condemns them to hell.
Sounds like a double standard, you want to project what you think is right on others, but you have no tolerance for others. Sounds like hatred and ignorance on your own part. You created your own double standard.
Some things are good and should be encouraged. Other things are bad and should be banned. Gay rights is good. Homophobia is evil.
I don’t see how you find this concept so difficult to grasp.
The grasping you talk about it a the problem. If you disagree than you are automatically labeled a homophobe, which tries to incite people. Because I do not agree with someones point of view does not mean I hate them.
The pro gay right crowd are bullies and very intolerant of anyone that doesn’t accept them.
The anti-gay mob consists of bullies and liars that are very intolerant of anyone that doesn’t accept their views about them.
LOL…That is probably one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard, and the farthest from the truth. Defending ourselves or other gay people against baseless insults is not bullying or intolerance. It only takes about 2 minutes to look through some of the comments under your profile to see that the terms intolerant and bully more appropriately apply to yourself. Please give me one example of a gay person being intolerant and bullying someone that doesn’t agree with our lifestyles? Unfortunately I could give you countless examples of intolerance, bullying, and pure hatred directed at gay people. Almost every other comment you leave is insulting someone.
http://disqus.com/my207input/
Ask Matthew Shepherd’s parents what they think or the parents of the young man who jumped off the GWB.Every point you make is accurate and should be carefully considered.
When ME becomes the first state to show how far we’ve come in November,it will be a great day!As a heterosexual man,I’m proud to support all my sisters and brothers!
Thanks for your support! It will be friends and family, like you, that make a difference in November.
Remember the attack on grannie in california.
Right. I’m intolerant of bullies and liars.
“The pro gay right crowd are … very intolerant of anyone that doesn’t accept them.”Well, duh! Wouldn’t you be intolerant of people who treated you like scum because of the way you were born? Perhaps the Jews were bullies because they were intolerant of the Nazis, and that the Civil Rights protesters were bullies because they wouldn’t respect the KKK’s right to lynch them?
Show me one case of a gay person attacking a straight person because of their sexual orientation.
Shhhh…they’re thinking, they’re thinking. Don’t disturb them, pbmann. They need the practice.
I was at the GAP looking at polo shirts and out of nowhere a man comes up to me and says , “Oh you straight men are so afraid of brightly colored shirts”. Wow could you imagined if I said, “Only gay men wear brightly colored shirts”.
Neither one of those statements would be attacking someone.
I would hope that you would both have a little smile over the comments. I would.
I still think it was pretty weird of a comment to make to a stranger. By the way how did this person know I wasn’t gay, is there a typical look to a gay person?
Gay bully is kind of oxymoronic….I knew a few pushy “queens”, back in the sixties, but no gay bullies. Bullies with Boas?
But homophobia IS evil, just like racism and anti-Sematism. I guess if you had your way, teachers wouldn’t even be allowed to teach students that rape is wrong, because “rape is wrong” is only their opinion, and they shouldn’t be indoctrinating children with their anti-rape ideology.
It’s not their job to teach it. It belongs to the parents !
From what I’ve read just today in these comments, the world had better hope there are still some parents who have the brains to teach something besides how to hate. Nice world they’re building.
What, a teachers job is not to teach? Then what is their job?
Or is it to teach only what you want them to teach?
The only reason that you would have to disagree is because you fear it in some way or other. You are cherry-picking passages from the Old Testament (must be, since there’s nothing in the New Testament about homosexuality), that support your bias while ignoring others, such as adulterers (ie Newt Gingrich, Henry Hyde, Bob Livingston, Bob Barr, Mark Sanford, Helen Chenowith, Dan Burton, good christian republicans all) should be put to death. How can one part be right and the other part wrong?
Well there…this is huge.
(5) members and $21 in their bank account. They are off with a bang.
Far more than I had in H.S. in 1973. I think some of our schools clubs worked on similar budgets.
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
– Margaret Mead
Cant pary in school or can you? bush is good or bad, obama is good or bad, Gay is right or wrong, Gay marriage is equality or special rights- these are societal debates not material opinions to indoctrinate or force onto children by non parents. This teacher is wrong and should be told to stop
Yes, because she is forcing students to buy those shirts, most likely at gunpoint or something.
She put the shirt up to start a discussion and the students wanted to be able to buy them. I see nothign wrong with either thing.
NO AS THE TEACHER SHE IS INFLUENCING OR INADVERTENTLY APPLYING PEER PRESSURE TO BUY THE SHIRTS OR SUPPORT THE CAUSE IN ORDER TO GET GOOD GRADES OR FEEL ACCEPTED. iT IS WRONG AND A MISUSE OF AUTHORITY
You are just plain wrong. The teacher said that she was surprised that students wanted to buy the shirts.
Oh, but perish the thought that FM and his group would ever read an article in its entirety and actually understand it. Reading comprehension is something sadly lacking in that crowd.
It’s very difficult, Steve, for those who are too lazy to educate themselves and instead, let their pastors/priests/ministers/preachers do it for them.
“Ignorance is the root of all evil” – Molly Ivins. Bless her ; she pretty well nailed it with that one, didn’t she?
Not Preying on children is now homophobia? This gay crowd is out of control.
Time out. Take a deep breath, timjy, and get out a dictionary. Look up “pedophilia” and look up “homosexuality.” Come back when you decide to stop sucking up the words of those around you and have decided to think for yourself, based on facts.
Did you know that the vast majority (over 90%) of pedophiles are heterosexual? That a child has more to fear from their heterosexual relative than a gay stranger?
Being homosexual does not make you more prone to preying on children or for that matter other adults. Women and children have more to fear from heterosexual males than homosexual males and I, being a heterosexual male, am disheartened by that.
Assuming the truth of your statement that over 90% of pedophiles are heterosexual, what is the relevance of that given that there are far more heterosexuals than homosexuals?
You’re not suggesting, are you, that a heterosexual is more likely to be a pedophile than a homosexual is? If so, can you provide statistics to back it up, i.e., the percentage of sexual assaults that are by homosexual males on male children v the percentage of sexual assaults that are by heterosexual males on male children?
Here is some research for you.
In a more recent literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly
cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, “The man
who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically
not sexually interested in older men or in women” (p. 259).
Read the rest of the site for more information.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
Thank you for replying. I’m off for my late afternoon errands and will try to look at your link when I return this evening. I’ve heard before that homosexuality and pedophilia shouldn’t be confused, and I may be getting it wrong, but my vague recollection is that the underlying attraction/motivation is different for pedophiles.
But, homosexuality aside, I wonder if pedophiles have a sexual preference in their victims, and that’s why I asked my questions. I’ll ask different questions. What percentage of sexual assaults by adult males are on male children and what percentage of sexual assaults by adult males are on female children?
The short answer to your question on whether pedophiles have a gender prefer appears to be no. Their attraction is to either boys or girls at or near puberty, there is hardly any gender preference according to the link but more girls are victims of sexual assault.
That’s consistent with what I’ve read. The sex of the victim might depend on the pedophile’s opportunity as much as anything else.
The concept is not, but the fact that if I do not happen to believe your way then I am wrong. Then trying to bullying someone into your position by calling everyone a homophobe.
You are wrong if you want to discriminate against other people because they don’t or won’t do as you think they should.
I have yet to hear one homosexual person require that I change my sexual orientation so that I have the same rights and priviledges that they do.
I have yet to hear one homosexual say that heterosexuals should not get married unless they want to have children or are unable to procreate.
I have yet to hear one homosexual say that heterosexuals divorcing at an alarming rate is destroying the sactitiy of marriage.
Sounds like you are saying the same thing. Because I do not think the way you do, then I am wrong. You want me to change my beliefs to suit your version of what is right and wrong.
No, I am not saying the same thing. I am not trying to take rights away from you nor am I trying to stop you from having the same rights as me. You are.
When is the last time you heard a group of gay people making fun of others for being Straight? When have you ever heard a group of gay people saying that heterosexuals should not be allowed to be married because the divorce rate was rediculous? You havent. See that is the problem with all of you that say there is a double standard, there isnt except for the percieved one you imagine because you are not getting it YOUR way…Sorry but this is a democracy..and people deserve EQUAL rights.
“Double standard” is just a flip phrase for them, JeffCol. That’s the problem. They hang around others exactly like them (i.e. at their fundamentalist/evangelical churches) and let their little heads soak up their environment, like sponges do, then they “repeat after me.” God forbid they should use the brains God gave them to think independently…or think, period.
Equal rights; The sexual deviats have special rights. can’t say anything and you will be charged with special racist laws, attacking a sexual deviat will get your charges elevated, although assualt has many levels gays have there special charges. If we do not agree with gays we are racists, bigots etc. yet if we do not believe in your sick unatural ways we are bigots, racists. We are not allowed to voice our opinion unless it agrees with yours, then we are racists, bigots; this is pathetic! does this mean the sexual deviats are raised democrats?
You sound very repressed. Sexual deviants. Hah.
Just a quick note; racisiscm is about racial prejudice, homophobia is about sexual orientation prejudice, bigotry applies to both. And if you think there isn’t prayer in school, I’d be willing to be that when the teachers announces a pop-quiz, there is some praying going on! I’m so glad our schools are embracing tolerance and acceptance and rejecting bullying. Haven’t we had enough teen suicide?
You are right about teen suicide, but have that prayer on a shirt I am sure someone would say something. Let alone saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
Show me a law that says you can’t say anything about “sexual deviats” without violating a “racist” law or show me a law that attacking a “sexual deviat” will get you higher level charges just because they are gay. You won’t find one in any state.
While I don’t agree with him, I will say that he may be referring to the fact that some states classify the assault on a gay person as a hate crime in addition to the charges that they receive for the assault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime
It would have to be shown that the perpetrator targeted the victim for their perceived sexual orientation, ethnicity, etc.
Agreed. Just trying to point out that there are states where this is done.
Actually, no state classifies the assault on a gay person as a hate crime. If you assault a person “because” of their gender, religion, ethnicity or in a few states sexual orientation then it is a hate crime. That means if you beat up a woman it is not a hate crime but if you beat up a woman while saying, “I hate all you f’ing women” and do it just because she is female then it is a hate crime. Likewise if you beat up a heterosexual and say, “I hate all you straight people and you should all die!” then that is a hate crime in some states. It has nothing to do with being gay though. If sexual orientation is protected then ALL sexual orientations are protected, LGBT and straight. This is an important distinction.
Good point! But much like the prosecution of racial hate crimes, there isn’t an even enforcement of the law from state to state or even case to case.
I believe all states have Hate Crime laws but they are used when the obvious motive is racial or sexist or homophobic.
For example I steal something that would not be considered a hate crime.
A better example would be I get into a bar fight with someone over a football game, not a hate crime but if I attack someone because of their skin color, sex or sexual orientation and that is the main reason I attacked them then that could be considered a hate crime.
Propman from Waterville, no, it does not mean that. In fact, there are no such people as “deviats.” You see, that is the problem. From your post, I can tell you could use more formal education. Understand, I am not saying you are not entitled to your opinion. I am saying your opinion is based on things you have heard said by those in your environment.
Why not try returning to school, broadening your horizons, expanding your knowledge base, and then deciding how you feel?
Knowledge is power.
No, it is the confused words of hate that illiterately fall from your pen that brand you a bigot, a racist and a hater.
What is a deviat?
Yes, people deserve “equal rights”. Let’s make polygamy legal, and likewise marriage among individuals regardless of gender and number, for example, 3 women to 2 men. Now that’s real “equality”!
And these, boys and girls, are called “straw men.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Yes, I know what a straw man argument is. But mine is not because it points out the obvious fact that the love-relationship rationale used for permitting SSM can equally be used to allow state sanctioning of relationships among more than two people. In any case, state sanctioning of relationships other than that of opposite sex couples serves no desirable public interest, and in fact will likely go against the interests of future generations of children whom the state is interested in protecting.
Same sex marriages are legal in several states and most European countries, show me one that allows polygamy.
On a side note, I really have no problem with polygamy except it seems like all the brides are under the age of 15 and the husbands are over the age of 35. I never see a husband who is trying to marry multiple 40 year old women. Wonder why?
Why do you go to such fallacious arguments? Marriage is a contract between 2 adults. Nothing more, nothing less.
Why should you care who the parties to the contract are?
You’ve just broaden the definition of marriage by saying that it is a contract between 2 adults. In actuality it’s more than a contract and it’s not just between two adults. If it were only a contract, then any two people can sign a legal contract binding each other to certain terms. And besides, the contract would not necessarily be a public act of endorsement by the state like traditional marriage is, and it would be missing one of two essential components traditional marriage has, namely, the ability to procreate and nurture offspring. This component is the main reason why the state sanctions the relationships of opposite sex couples wanting to commit to each other in a life-long relationship of love.
And you ask why I should care who the contracting parties are. One reason I care is because the benefits of marriage is not without a cost to the taxpayers and serves no purpose but to please a very small minority (1 to 2 percent of the population). That the courts will require schools to normalize homosexuality is certain to follow in violation of parents wishes to raise their children as they see fit in accordance to their own values without state intrusion. Homosexual orientation is a disorder that ought not to be encouraged in anyway. State endorsement of SS relationships will further encourage the creation of artificial families through adoption (it’s bad enough the state court system has forced adoption agencies to allow SS couples to adopt children), and through artificial insemination and in vitro fertilization that inevitably separate children from their natural parents and bring about death to human beings in their nascent stage of life. Divorce too will not be without complications when deciding which parent gets physical custody of the children. Finally, allowing SSM is a grand social experiment with consequences no one can fully predict with any certainty. These are just some of the reasons why I oppose changing the definition of marriage.
Marriage is the state codification of a relationship that confers rights and obligations to those married. If procreation were the sole reason for marriage why let old women marry? Procreation is quite independent of marriage, as almost 40% of births occur outside of it.
BTW, the courts have already “normalized” homosexuality and protect against discrimination on that basis.
And homesexual couples have been having and adopting kids for over a generation, and guess what? Most gay couples have straight children!
Homosexuality occurs in about 10% of humans. It is also widespread in the animal kingdom, in many species, at about the same percentage.
It is time to get over it and move on.
I don’t agree with most of your assertions and conclusions. Besides, getting over it and moving on is not the answer. That to me is paramount to accepting something that is wrong without any opposition. Finally, you need to check on your statistics concerning the percentage of homosexuals. It’s far less than the figure you cited.
Studies pointing to the statistics are estimates at best. The most
widely accepted statistic is that 1 in ever 10 individuals is LGBT;
however some research estimates 1 in 20. Of course, this all depends on
one’s definition of gay (which may vary by study) and the participants
willingness to identify as gay, bi, lesbian or transgender.
Also,
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/unmarry.htm
41% of births occur out of wedlock.
According to a recent source the percentage is more likely between 1 and 3 percent among adults.
I rarely give my sources but I will in this case.
http://news.discovery.com/human/about-2-of-americans-are-gay-110411.html
As your own source and I say, the stats are estimates at best.
Not to mention, my comment referred to Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-and-Transgender individuals.
Homosexuality is but a toe in the pool.
So wrong. It is far more if you count bisexuals. It is over 50%. It does happen in nature. The real question is why do you care. Why do straight people sit around thinking about what gay people do in their bedrooms? Why do you get all “hot and bothered” about it? Obviously because you aren’t straight. Gays don’t care or think about what you do in your bedrooms because they have happy, healthy normal sex and don’t secretly want to be doing what you are doing in the bedroom. Every time you open your mouth and show your homophobia you are showing your true sexual orientation. That is what is wrong with the opposition. They are unhappily in the closet and jealous because they are cowards. Gays just feel sad for you.
thank you,and well said…
Homosexuality is not a disorder, you will not find it listed as one by any legitmate medical board.
As for parents wishing to raise their children as they see fit, I don’t see racists, sexists or other bigots having issues raising their children the way they see fit. it is just harder to do when there is another message that disagrees with their racists, sexists or bigoted views.
I know you are against abortion but you also appear to be against adoption as well. So what if a same sex couple want to adopt a child. That child is lucky because it will be going into a loving caring committed relationship regardless of the sexual orientation of their parents.
Do you know why homosexuality is no longer listed as a disorder? Check out the facts on it and you will find out it was done solely for political reasons.
As to your second comment, most parents are not racist, sexist, or bigots; but even if they were, I don’t see any reason why they should not have the right to raise their children as they see fit. Of all evils that exist, I certainly don’t want the state mandating our personal family decisions. Our forefathers left their native countries to escape this type of tyranny that brought them much misery.
As to adoption, I believe as a matter of public policy it should be extended only to close relatives, or to couples who most closely resemble the natural parents’ gender make-up. Adoption as an equal-rights issue should never take precedence over what is in the best interests of children.
No one is stopping racists, bigots or sexists from raising their kids in their image but that does not mean that schools should not introduce the children to different messages.
Why are you so afraid that a teenager will read a slogan on a T-Shirt and suddenly turn gay? At most the teenager will read the slogan and ignore it (if the bigot, racists or sexist parents did their job right) or they will ask questions, which is not a bad thing.
As for adoption, why only close relatives or parents gender make up? Are you afraid that if enough same sex couple adopt children and they turn out normal then your crusade against same sex marraiges will prove to be in vain?
Parents naturally want to their own children to adopt their values. That’s task is made more difficult when those in authority subvert them with their own values. People don’t suddenly turn gay but they can certainly be influenced over time to become gay. I agree that one or two children wearing a T-shirt slogan at school will not likely have much of a significant impact on other students. But when the message is counter to cultural values and is being promoted through an orchestrated effort to get as many students as possible to wear it, then it becomes problematic.
Finally, I’ve already answered your question concerning adoptions. This line of questioning could go on forever and in different directions. At this point I don’t think my answers mean much to you any more, so there is no point in carrying on this discussion any further.
I could see a million t-shirts and I would never be influenced over time to be gay and neither would any straight teenager or adult. My sexual orientation has always been hetero and always will be just like gay sexual orientation is ingrained very early in life.
No effort was orchastrated by anyone to get as many students to buy the t-shirt, the students themselves asked if they could buy them. The teacher was surprised by the amount of students who wanted to wear them. Today’s young people do not have the hang ups about homosexuality that older adluts do because they know gay and lesbian students and have learned that they are not evil, immoral or bad people.
There are no more gay or lesbian people now then there were in 1950, 1850 or 1050.
Whawell cares because his (high-degree of latent homosexuality) pastor tells him he should.
Actually this becomes a tax issue so that is the problem. Two legal adults though, why is that an issue? Did you know in NH a girl can marry at 13 and a boy at 14? I don’t see anyone trying to change that law though. I guess everyone must be fine with 13 year old brides and kids that young being sexually active. Good to know we are familiar with our laws and trying to protect kids in the ways that matter…from two loving adults who they will likely never meet having a happy marriage.
I just returned from NH. Parental consent is needed there for minors to marry, which rarely happens these days. Anyway, adults do not need to have the sanctioning of the state to have a relationship. Therefore there is no legitimate reason or interest for the state to legally recognize SS relationships SS or any other type of union other than a man and a woman.
There are many legal reasons to recognize a same sex couple and most do not have to do with children or taxes. There are inheritance considerations, health considerations, property rights and many others that come with marriage.
Why should a hetero couple get all of those benefits but not a Same ex couple?
And before you say Civil Unions understand that Civil Unions have no legal standing with the Federal government or other state governments. If a same sex couple got a Civil Union in say NH (if they have Civil Unions) and then moved to Texas (say for for work) they would no longer have the protection of their existing Civil Union and most likely could not get a Civil Union in Texas (because they are most likely not going to allow Civil Unions).
I don’t support any type of state sanction for gay couples whether it’s marriage or civil unions. So the distinction between these is a moot point. As to property, inheritance, and health care determination rights, those can readily be arranged through a legal contract. Bear in mind as well that Maine has a domestic partnership law that takes many of these concerns into consideration.
Ah, but Maine’s Domestic Partnership law is for heterosexual couple’s only and has no legal standing in any state other than Maine. So if any couple leaves Maine then they lose the protection that they had in Maine.
So if a long time, loving same sex couple has one of them get sick and has to go to the hospital you do not believe that the other partner should have any legal rights to visit their pertner or make decisons for their partner?
There are many cases of long term same sex couples not being able to be with their loved one at the time of their death because the family of the sick partner did not want them there.
We are talking about school here, and tee shirts.
democracy me
ANS WILL OF THE PEOPLE NOTHING ABOUT RIGHTS
JeffCol….ever heard of the term “Breeders”? I have and it is derogatory slam of heterosexuals. I have heard gays making fun of straights a great many times. I post this as a response to your question. I am supportive of gay rights, but using such an argument is couter-productive as it is false.
“Breeder” may also be used as a derogatory term by childfree people of any sexual orientation,
to refer to parents who focus on their children and abandon their
previous friends and lifestyle, or to women who give birth to many
children.
Straight from wikipedia.
The minute my best girl friend tells me she’s pregnant, she’ll be forever a breeder!
I don’t see anywhere that SpruceDweller said anything about hating mainegal17. What Spruce did say is that condemning someone for being gay based on religious belief can’t be supported since there are as many or more who also share the same religion who believe that being gay, and gay marriage, are not sinful. The fact is that the bible has been used in the past to support the oppression of other groups-people of color, women-and other ideologies-slavery, denying women the right to vote, etc.. Today, I think we all agree that was wrong. At some point, we will agree, too, that using the bible to justify discrimination against those who are gay, will be considered wrong as well. Otherwise, you are simply a hypocritical christian who cherry-picks from the Old Testament those “teachings” that support your hate.
NOT a double standard. Anti-hate, and that’s all.
The simple fact is because you do not believe in something, does not mean you hate them. That is what I am saying is a double standard.
Sure, “We don’t hate the person. We just hate the behavior.” Semantics like that are what the evangelical, fundamentals (w/emphasis on the “mental”) use to justify their condemnation of their fellow humans.
That is not “Semantics”, I agree a lot go way overboard; the only codemnation can come from God and his word. That is the same thing someone said to me the other day, because I do not like Obama and his administration, that I was a racist. All to often in todays society because you disagree with someone you are a racist, homophibic, or a bigot. The same analogy can be used, “justify their condemnation of their fellow humans.” Simply because I do not happen to believe their point of view.
Not believing in something someone else does does not make you hate them but stopping them from having the same options you do because of you not believing is wrong.
Then we have school uniforms that would cure this, and a lot of other things. Because I believe something is wrong, does not mean I hate them. That is pretty judgemental would not you say?
What? You think that teaching that intolerance is wrong is a form of hatred and ignorance?
Really?
What I am saying is you have to teach/show tolerance on both sides of the issue. Not just the one.
Saying people can not do something that you can do because you don’t agree with their lifestyle is intolerance.
That is illogical, it is saying that I have to agree with you because if I do not I am intolerant. That is bad as saying someone is rascist, because they do not agree with President Obama.
You don’t have to agree with me but if you actively try to stop me then you are being intolerant (as long as I am not breaking any laws or harming you or someone else).
That is your opinion. Happens to be mine as well. That said if a family has a religious view or other view that says it is not ok with THEM then leave it to the HOME. Again it is NOT the teachers job to preach but to TEACH.
I must point out that students at a school in another state where recently sent home for wearing shirts with AMERICAN flags them. The school called it RACIEST!
I think clothes (or anything other than a flag) with the American Flag on them is disrespectful of the American Flag. I think people who fly faded, worn out or torn American Flags are disrespectful of the American Flag and the country for that matter.
Is there something wrong being an alcoholic? After all both are disorders, so why would you want to promote one but not the other? My point is this: why create needless controversy if tolerance is the issue? You see, this is all about promoting a point of view that is offensive to many people. It is also a slap in the face to parents who are trying to raise their children in accordance to their values.
Not one student is being forced to buy or wear the t-shirts but they may just use their brains for themselves and question their parents about why they think being gay is wrong.
And that is the problem, kids using their minds for themselves.
Alcoholism is a medical disorder that appears to be genetic, Homosexuality is not a disorder but also appears to be genetic. One can cause loss of one’s job, home, relationship’s and sometimes death and the other is caused by drinking too much.
Gay is a sin, try reading your bible………
So are lobster, bacon, and cheeseburgers. Try reading your Bible …
God is waiting
Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
—–Original message—–
Bet he’s not sporting a Remington, though, and if he is I hope it’s squarely aimed at you and your group of wingnuts.
Us Jew’s do not use the bible do we!
The bible also says it is ok to both own and beat your slaves!! Do you think that is ok as well?
And apparently it is ok to have sex with your daughters if you are drunk or have a concubine if your wife is barren.
So is wearing two different fibers at the same time and spilling your seed on the ground and are punishable by death by stoning.
And if you are a women you are supposed to live alone for one week of every month only coming out at night or if you are a man having to wash your hands every time you come in contact with an “unclean” woman.
Are you sure you want to live by Biblical standards?
Who said that there was anything wrong with being gay?
Thanks for admitting the gays have been preying on children. Fits with the moral code.
Oh please, timjy, tell me you know the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. My moral code tells me not to make judgements on others.
People like you, with opinions like yours are the biggest reason we are in the jam we are in right now.Y ou have taken tolerance way out of context. You say it’s alright? And you say you are a Christian(from earlier comments made by you)? One or the other-you can’t have it both ways, but is sounds like you might go both ways?
Ah, but that’s where you’re wrong,1maineguide. There are Gods and there are gods. Sounds like the one you worship promotes hatred.
the mentally ill and demented dont know they are either
Don’t interpret those who think it’s sinful as condemning…just because they don’t “accept” doesn’t mean that they aren’t tolerant. To accept would mean to believe it to be okay. To be tolerant would be to not believe yet know that we all have to live together and get along. People shouldn’t have to accept anything they don’t wish to…yet it is pushed as accept or else. By the way…we are all sinners. Like it or not.
Yes because teaching tolerance is such a bad thing.
I don’t tolerate bullies.
And neither do I.
Here is the problem with your statement pt. The T-shirt the teacher is wearing promotes tolerance and a positive attitude and morale in the school, while the T-shirt you mention supports hatred, biggotedness, and is completely negative. Now if the heterosexual kids in school were to wear T-shirts that said STRAIGHT- Fine by me…I dont believe there would be any problem whatsoever with that. Seee the thing we see from you folks is that you continue to want to bring the negative into a postive sitatuation, and we wont let you. You are more and more in the minority of thinking in this country and you will fall in the same place as those that didnt want to give up thier slaves, or allow woment to vote…alone, angry, bitter, and obsolete
not to worry. the generation in question is not full of fear and loathing like their parents. Gay rights/equal rights is fete accompli by the time these kids are adults.
How true. This great grandma sees it every day, so there IS hope for the world. These kids grow and their minds grow and expand…and they begin to wonder why their parents are so full of hatred, when their friends’ parents are accepting. Before you know it, they find the answer:
education.
Just the three R’s? Sounds good and traditional, just like the old one room schoolhouse of horrors, but it mightn’t it be good to have some science, history, arts, physical education along with them?
To some, the idea of civil rights for everybody can a polarizing topic. Some like ’em, some like to pick and choose -particularly when it comes to others. We see plenty of evidence for that in these columns don’t we?
Are you old enough to remember South Pacific?
“You have to be carefully taught” to hate.
These teachers are teaching respect, not hate. Where is the harm in that?
Thanks, BC. When my dh and I were at the polls getting signatures for Marriage Equality, someone sang that for me. I meant to order a cd online…now I will. It’s powerful.
This has nothing to do with politics. It is really simple, it is a way for people to show their support for people who are constantly discriminated against and harassed by bigots.
She should get a t-shirt for us atheist then. We are more distrusted then the gays.
Kevin – I understand. But, you know, it is kind of like that atheist fish on the backs of cars – the one with the feet and the Darwin logo? Actually, I am sort of against that. The other side wants to promote its religion and as an atheist, I just want to not have anything to do with it. So, the Darwin fish is more of a slap in the face to the religious crowd than it is to promoting the way I feel. It’s not really promoting Darwinism but more dissing their religion. Does that make any sense?
Perhaps, a bumper sticker: “Reason over Superstition – Try It!” is more polite than is hanging a cross upside down and in flames (or a fish with feet).
As Bill Maher said,”The great thing about atheism is that it takes so little of your time.”
And, for the religious crowd, atheism is not another form of religion. It is the absence of all that, hard as that might be for some to grasp.
I’ve never seen that fish.Clever idea though.
There are several versions. Here’s one: http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/daremblem.html
Excellent,thanks much.
Notice how the Rally For Reason was ignored over the weekend.Look up Richard Dawkins on UP w/Chris Hayes.An American hero speaks.
wow, what’s the matter with supporting a friend, or two, at school? It’s about kids killing themselves, Maine Gun. I don’t think her intent is to indoctrinate, more to educate and support. What’s the harm?
Kids kill themselves for all different reasons, they’re too fat, too skinny, not popular, sexually abused, drug use … For some reason everyone thinks only gay students have problems.
No, people believe that gay students have problems at a higher rate than straight students because they are a target of ridicule and scorn by not only their peer group but by the adult bigots in society as well.
Look up the recent RS article about kids killing themselves in Michele Bachmann’s home district.The school did NOTHING to stop it.
Evidently, their parents didn’t take them for (pseudo) counseling at her husband’s “pray-away-the-gay” clinic. Why would Bachmann do anything other than offer that? It’s typical Republican “me first” “all about the money” thinking.
True enough.Look up a book called”The Little Book OF Political Sex Scandals”Absolutely worth every penny.
Where does it read a student was wearing one of these t-shirts during school?
You obviously think that gay people are sinning and basing your judgement on your condemnation. Guess what? It’s legal to be gay in this country, it is not a mental disorder, and it is fully accepted in the military and other places–
So get out of the dark ages.
I don’t care if it’s accepted by the military ( the military is in the business of killing people). It’s a sin.
Technically, the bible in Leviticus says it’s an abomination, not a sin. Leviticus also says eating lobster is an abomination and wearing fabric made of two cloths (no poly-cotton t-shirts for you) is as well. I think King Leviticus may have been off his rocker.
“It’s a sin.”
Where’d you get that idea? From your bronze age holy book written by a tribe of Middle Easterners who thought that eating bacon was evil but that murdering entire nations of people and owning other human beings as slaves was just peachy?
Somehow, I’m not particularly inclined to believe you …
You really need to do a little time in the military. It is not “fully accepted”, it was forced on the military. Of course it’s not illegal to be homosexual in this country, it’s also not illegal to be a pervert either.
It was NOT forced on the military in the same way that Truman’s integration order was.Everybody from top to bottom was allowed to comment-the FIRST time that so much input was asked.
DADT was repealed…. has the military exploded? Has America suddenly gone down the tubes because now people can be open about who they are in the military? No. The world hasn’t ended, and gay people are fighting to defend YOUR freedom. Surprise!
There is a movie titled “Bully” that you should see. I tip my hat and support an educator that is trying to create safe places for all students. I do not see it as indoctrination I see it as education. It would do you a world of good to get some yourself.
The pro gay rights crowd are the biggest bullies out there.
I’m thinking Charlie Howard would disagree strongly with you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Howard_%28murder_victim%29
How many anti-gay rights people have been killed by gay gangs in Bangor?
By that logic, Martin Luther King, Jr. was the most evil man ever to walk the face of the Earth.
Haven’t you heard? MLK was an America-hating black-supremacist Communist terrorist! It’s true, just ask any wingnut! /sarcasm
And conversely, 207 probably thinks the English translation for “LePage” is “saint.” Hardly.
What if I do not want my children seeing it? Maybe they should all have school uniforms, that would cure all of it.
you have every right to home school your children if you want to mold them only to your way of thinking.
The only chance kids like that get is to be in a secular school exposed to different viewpoints.Anything else cripples them.Homeschooling from a Bible thumper (shudder!)
Then I could say the same thing about School Prayer.
Heaven forbid your children live in the real world, form their own opinions, and act on their own beliefs! For shame!
That is part of the problem today, letting children do their own thing. No wonder schools have so many problems.
What are you so afraid of?
Your children will see a T-Shirt that says “Gay, fine by me” and all of a sudden turn gay or that they will ask questions and make up their own minds?
And if it was a shirt that said, “straight is the only way to go” would you feel the same.
It would not bother me at all and it would not turn a homosexual into a heterosexual either.
It may not you, but I am sure it would not take that school admin. long to have them remove it.
If our students don’t get to see the movie, they still have an excellent example of a bully. They need look no further than the Blaine House.
Teachers are there to Educate, but what you fail to realize is that our Teachers are also there to create a safe environment for all children to get the education they are entitled too regardless of sexual orientation, shape, size, color, religion you name it. I applaud this teacher for being brave enough to embrace her job and do just that and let kids know it is OK to be different and have different opinions, and that you will not be put down because of them.
Would you think the same if it had the 10 commandments on it?
I completely agree with Brad and at the same time, I was rather put off by the people freaking out about the 10 commandments being in or on Federal Buildings. The t-shirt encourages tolerance, the 10 commandments is just good advice – what I am sick of is the whining, the political correctness, and the thought your way is the only right way.
I never said my way is the only way. That is one problem, because someone disagree’s with you, they are either a bigot or any other name some choose to call. You are right I am tired of political correctness, you have to worry about saying something then have them interpret you said something or meant something entirely different.
I didn’t mean you specifically when I said “your way is the only right way.” I apologize that it read that way.
No problem, like most I can type before I think sometimes lol Just that I believe if I can listen to someone else’s opinion I would they they could listen to mine. They do not have to agree with it, and totally disagree with it; at least listen as I have (hopefully I have). Someone basically called me a racist because I do not care for Obama, though I have a lot of friends that are American (African descent). I try not to judge others regardless, though I am human and may jump the gun on ocassion. I just do not believe that tee shirt is in the proper place.
Just FYI there are more than 10 Commandments… and probably not a single one of them stands unbroken today. But that’s a different subject. I would think the same way because its the student exercising the right to their own opinion in a safe enviornment.
Depends if you are going by the Old Testament. The 2 in the New Testament reinforces those. Seldom does student in school have the right to their own opinion. Reason why some people had to fight to have Bible Studies in a school, where other org. had no problem.
Off topic but if students want to study the Bible there are multiple buildings in every town, big or small, that have classes in Bible study every week and are open most every day including religious holidays.
I agree, but there still should be no problem of youth having a Bible study in school, or Bible Club as in any club.
How ’bout we just cut to the chase? There is an old “Golden Rule.” It says, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
ok, I would not wear the shirt in school, then you should not :) Though there is a lot more to the context of that rule, then those words.
If this teacher was brave enough to embrace kids who disagree with the opinion on this T shirt would you support them?
Embracing bigotry is cowardice, not bravery. Those involved with these shirts have a fair amount of courage and a great deal of integrity to do what they’ve done.
Trying to tear down the good thing they’ve done is nothing but small-mindedness and cruelty.
Most of the kids who belong to the gay/straight alliance are usually marginal students who are finding a way to fit in and certain teachers take advantage of them.
That is bull. I knew plenty of gay kids in school (some I did not know were gay until after school) and none of them were marginal students.
One was one of the most popular kids in school and still is at class reunions and another was in the top 5 gradewise and is a very successful business man.
I didn’t say gay students were marginal it’s the kids who are part of the gay/straight alliance at any given high school. Most gay kids I know avoid your typical gay/straight alliance. The teachers who head the group are usually pretty weird and like to prey upon marginal students.
Let’s see the 160 orders for that shirt.Hopefully Betsy Smith can get a ton of the shirts the teacher hung sold to raise badly needed money for EQME.
either way its gonna be a tight race and if it does not pass, its just gonna be tried again and again and again
Nowhere in the article does she say she would not embrace kids who believe differently then her but she may also engage those kids in a discussion on why they think the way they do. And that is what most posters who are against gay rights are afraid of, open honest discussion.
Like what ?
“It’s NOT OK to be gay” ?
Or
“You fags are going to hell” ?
Your agenda is all about hate, calling it a “disagreement” and your “opinion” does not change what it’s really all about.
Or gasp, imagine if the shirt read: I don’t believe in God. All you right wingers would be going even battier.
Gasp, could you imagine Bangorian standing up for a student who wore a tee shirt that read: I believe in God?
Of course he would. That statement is completely inoffensive.
We agree on this one…
Since when is teaching TOLERANCE “indoctrination”?
If i disagree with it, then it is indoctrinating to my children. Especially if my children do not believe in it. Also I said do not believe in it, I did not say, hate. Just to make sure that is known.
You can disagree with any thing your heart desires. One of the jobs of schools and education is to present topics from divergent points of view. They also teach critical thinking.
In this case they are teaching tolerance. And now I will ask the question again, “Since when is teaching TOLERANCE “indoctrination”?”
When they only teach tolerance of one side of an issue that is indoctrination. And it happens with many issues in many classes in schools, not just with gay rights. Listen to a discussion in a class room about the merits vs the problems with the ACA for example.
Bringing up the word tolerance is often used as a tool, a blunt one at that, to end discussion of an issue. Just as using the term racist is often used.
Well I don’t believe teenagers are being bullied in school for being straight. If you have anything to the contrary, please post it. But tolerance for “straight” people is an everyday occurrence.
My comment was to point out that this is just one example of a much broader problem in public schools today.
I also doubt that teenagers are being bullied in school for being straight. But be a teenager who expresses ANY opinion not supporting the gay agenda and they will be bullied. and not just by other students, but by teachers and often the administration.
We are talking about the tee shirt here. You would use the same argument on teaching Religion in school. If I believe in the opposite, then you are trying to indoctrinate my children into believing your way. You are being intolerant of my views. So you know, I am not talking about HATE.
Actually religion is taught in some schools (and I don’t mean private religious ones either). But they are taught from a perspective of historical and not as one is superior to another.
Hey, it’s freedom of expression MGG. So when one of the other kids or teachers comes up with a T-Shirt that say “Gays, Not fine by ME” we will all agree that is their choice as well. Ok. Fair is fair.
No. Obviously.
Some opinions are good and should be encouraged. “Be nice to other people, don’t murder, don’t rape, being gay is perfectly normal, etc.” Other opinions, “Rape is awesome! The Jews are all scum! Homosexuality is immoral!” are wrong and should be banned from school.
How is it that some people don’t understand basic morality? At least this sort of bigoted obfuscation is going the way of polio as each passing generation become less ignorant than the one before it.
That is YOUR opinion Steve Anderson. But guess what? Holding a personal belief that homosexuality is an immoral lifestyle does NOT make one a bigot. Acting violently toward gay people, trying to ‘fix’ them, insulting them, humiliating them, refusing to work with them, eat with them, learn with them- THAT is bigotry. And there is a huge difference between such actions and a personal, moral conviction. Sounds like you are the one trying to change a person’s sense of self. Does that make YOU a bigot? Hmmmmmm.
“Holding a personal belief that homosexuality is an immoral lifestyle does NOT make one a bigot.”
Um, actually, yes it does. That’s the very definition of bigotry: holding some harmless personal trait against someone. Even if you don’t call them names or try to kill them, believing that someone is less of a person than you because something about them that you don’t like which but isn’t wrong or evil makes you a bigot.
In short, your “moral” conviction is actually very immoral.
You’re calling me immoral. Doesn’t that definition apply to you as well?
No, because your behavior actually is immoral, whereas homosexuality isn’t.
Definition of BIGOT : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
As usual, redefining words and concepts to support your personal biases and opinions. Based on the dictionary definition of bigot many of the people on your side of the issue are bigots as well.
What is happening is that it is ok for gays to express their opinion and pass that message to anyone at anytime but the same doesn’t apply to heterosexuals that have the opposite view. Aside form the issue, any issue, that logic is disturbing. Allowing one side to promote their beliefs while the other side must remain silent is unfair. Only a bigot would think that is ok.
The anti-gay side is remaining silent?
Schools should do what should also be done at home,teach their children tolerance.Tolerance should never have a indoctrination label, it should have a human label.It’s a sad commentary on our times when tolerance is taken as “indoctrination”.
Have you been under a rock lately? Do you not realize how hard it is for a child who is being bullied, because they are considered different, to receive an education?? Seems to me like the only thing they are trying to do is make the students NEUTRAL.
So, gunny, you think that teaching students about tolerance and understanding is indoctrinating them? I suppose you believe that teaching students about civic responsibility, making informed decisions, voting, being active in the community is also indoctrinating them. Why are you so afraid of those who may be different from you?
They are being neutral – accepting of everyone is the basis of neutrality. This isn’t about indoctrination. It’s about fairness and equality. Also, *Obama
you got it right tooth and nail teachers have been pushing the liberal ruin america message for years
You are so right! Why are parents NOT taking a stad and calling and complaining about this?
Don’t worry they do, some administrators are afraid of the pro gay fascist, others will make sure all sides are being treated fairly.
teachers are pushing the liberal agenda to weaken the nation
Not all teachers. Some are fighting it.
This country was founded on liberal ideas
I am pretty sure there are laws against threatening the president of the United States, so it would probably depend on how “anti” we’re talking. This isn’t indoctrination–notice the quote at the end saying that people in the HS get bullied regularly for being gay. There’s a problem of discrimination, and this teacher is working to change that.
FOX news does the same thing, like when Rush Limbaugh made those terrible comments about that law student–they immediately attacked all the things that “liberals” do under the “cover” of comedy. GET OVER YOURSELVES. THIS ISN’T ABOUT YOU. IT’S ABOUT EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL.
Not the issue.
Making up a situation and then saying that such an example wouldn’t fly and then using that as a reason why this real example is wrong is weak. (Much like saying gay marriage is wrong because then people will want polygamy).
The education here is that tolerance is good and nothing to fear. Be secure in who you are, straight or gay.
When there is a story about anti-Obama or Christian people being prevented, wrongly, from speaking their mind, then let’s address it then.
When we think about it, there is and always has been a certain amount of indoctrination in one’s education. When we favor it, it’s called education, when we don’t it’s called propoganda or brain-washing – even indoctrination becomes a dirty word. Seems to me it’s the type of education that gets people all lathered up sometimes. I think that’s the case here.
We don’t know about the anti Omama (sic) T-shirt, but we do know that wearing anti-war t-shirts in the 1960’s was judged to be within a student’s rights, despite the “horrors” suffered by authoritarians posing as school administrators.
Teachers are there to educate, that is correct. Fortunately, many, many years ago when I was in school, I had teachers who educated me and taught me to think for myself.
That was before the right-wing “christians” started infiltrating our classrooms and demanding that we teach students to follow the party line (that’s how Hitler succeeded).
And that is when and where the indoctrination started. It needs to STOP while we still have children with brains. And maybe it’s not too late to send some of their parents back there.
Teaching acceptance by provoking thought is not indoctrination.
Unless you think they should be teaching their students to hate what is different.
I hate to agree with you but i do. This teacher may have single handedly cost us t our marriage.
Kudos to Ms. Barnes and her fellow teachers that are supporting this initiative. As per usual, only the opponents are making this “political”.
So you justify wearing tea shirts about sex in schools… Most schools don’t allow shirts with slogans on them worn in schools… This one I guess is different because of your beliefs,, Well why can’t the children wear a shirt that say’s Jesus Saves in school.. That is non political… Being a bigot comes easy to you folks
Children can wear a shirt that says “Jesus saves “.
Despite the large number of spelling and grammatical errors in your post Davidvsgoliath, I’ll address these points as best as possible … A) the slogan does not reference the act of sexual intercourse, but instead one’s sexual orientation … B) schools most certainly allow shirts with slogans on them, as a teacher I see them every day … C) children most certainly can wear a shirt that say “Jesus Saves” on it, for once again it’s something I’ve seen firsthand more than once … D) I can only assume that you think I’m a bigot for calling opponents of this initiative as “political” in their interests? You need to check your definition of the term if that’s the case.
I’m willing to bet the “tea shirt” spelling was deliberate.
David, this shirt says NOTHING about sex! Why do you automatically think sex when you hear the word gay? This is simply a way to let these kids have a bully free school experience. It’s also a way for kids to support one another and learn to live together. Nobody has to agree, but we must be tolerant of people different from ourselves. This support and tolerance may save lives! This is not promoting gay sex, it’s NOT about sex. Why is that so hard to understand?
Gay refers to sex. What else does it refer to in this context? Being gay means having a sexual relationship with other people of the same sex. Being straight means having a sexual relationship with other people of the opposite sex. Next you’ll be saying atheism has nothing to do with religion.
ok i’ll say it. ATHEISM has nothing to do with religion that’s why they are atheists.
IMO
“Gay” refers to a same sex couple in a relationship together.
This relationship need not be sexual in nature though most are. I’m am quite certain that there is more than one opposite sex married couple in this state that does not engage in sexual acts and are married for other than sexual reasons including but not limited to financial benefit and and the simple need of companionship. A minority to be certain, but still a reality.
By your definition then what is someone with no sexual relationship with another person? For instance, my virgin daughter? She’s interested in males however has no sexual relationship with anyone. Is she asexual? Is she heterosexual? Is she gay?
Orientation does not equal sex.
“Next you’ll be saying atheism has nothing to do with religion.”
Um, actually, atheism doesn’t have anything to do with religion. That’s the whole point of atheism. Those who want nothing to do with religion … are atheists.
So then, how would your “tolerance” level be if you were on a plane and there were two Muslims who suddenly pulled out their Qur’an and started praying to Allah? Maybe, they also have a T-shirt on that says “Kill the Infidels”. They are just different than you…right? No reason to think that you may not make it to your destination…right? You would be perfectly willing to risk your life to protect their rights wouldn’t you?
Just trying to make sure that your “tolerance” applies to all, not just your pet project.
OSOKRecon, just because you might be less than tolerant of Muslims praying on an airplane doesn’t mean the rest of us would. They have their right to religion, just as much as you have yours. As far as the “Kill the Infidels” t-shirt, I think it goes without saying that the shirt in question would be unacceptable, since it talks about KILLING people, which is illegal. So yeah, aside from the shirt that talks about killing people, I support their right to pray.
Decent Muslims deserve tolerance. Muslim terrorists do not. Decent Christians deserve tolerance. Christian bigots do not. Gays deserve tolerance. Homophobia does not.
See? Not so difficult to understand, is it?
David might I suggest that you read the article before you comment…from the article “hung a T-shirt on her classroom wall”. No one was wearing them.
There isn’t anything on that t-shirt about sex and there is nothing in the article about students wearing the t-shirt in school, just that they wanted to buy one.
Good for her. Love it.
If it was Christian? Fine by me. ACLU would be all over this.
When did being gay become a religion?
It looks like he was saying that if it was something Christian the ACLU would be all over it.
But it is not.
As a gay christian I would be fine with that. I would also be fine with “Jewish,” Buddist,” “Pagan,” “Muslim,” or any other terms people use to identify themselves as long as the term is not harmful to, or disrespectful of others. Affirming messages should always welcome.
One of my foster children wore tee’s to high school everyday which said “Jesus is Lord” and “Jesus Saves.” NO ONE bothered her for her whole three years at two different schools.
That is truly an anomaly. ACLU and liberterrorists will attack any recognition of Christ in a school when they can. OK to acknowledge Buddah, Allah or any other religious diety, but not Christ. Sound like we slipped one by the liberterrorists.
Thats not true. We put up a Christmas tree every year and I just bought my students all Easter baskets. You are looking for something to be angry about.
Not true, the ACLU would defend a student that was not allowed to wear a “Jesus Saves” t-shirt just as fast as one not allowed to wear a “Gay: So What” t-shirt.
Do some actual research by yourself and see what types of cases the ACLU and their state branches actually engage in. You would be surprise
The ACLU goes to bat for individuals being discriminated against by the government.
Did you know that the ACLU was on Rush Limbaugh’s side when he was facing charges in court?
How about a t-shirt that says “intercourse, fine by me!”. Afterall the t-shirt is speaking to sexual preference.
I believe that’s considered “Hate Speech” today.
How does sexual preference have anything to do with intercourse?
Oh right. It doesn’t.
Intercourse is an act, not an identification. Sexual orientation is a small piece that makes up a person’s identity. The fact that your mind goes immediately to the act says quite a bit about you.
I am so happy that this school has done this. Way to go!
We are all so different as human beings so why don’t we just all get along? It’s so easy.
Signed,
A heterosexual person
Teachers are not advocating for a lifestyle, they are letting all the students know that they are accepted for who they are and creating an atmosphere of acceptance. It’s great that a bunch of kids from the school want a t-shirt of their own. For many people, especially in the upcoming generation, it doesn’t matter if someone is gay- it’s no big deal. I want one of those t-shirts too! And comparing being gay to physical attributes (weight, height) is just laughable and come on, you sound like a fool.
They are not? The question mark makes it advocating.
The use of a question mark not indicates “advocating”? Gee, I learned that question marks indicated a question. When did that change?
I suppose “Got Milk?” is now “advocating” for cows?
Maybe, just maybe…it’s advocating for the dairy industry. I could be way off on that…
Either that or it’s a shirt all the pregnant teenagers can wear.
Yes, it ask the question; rather than a sentence to provoke thought.
Oh really?
Comparing being homosexual to physical attributes is just laughable? Why then, are the homosexuals always comparing themselves to the blacks? It’s fine if it serves your cause, but laughable if it doesn’t. You can’t have it both ways.
Glad the teacher has enough free time to be printing and selling t-shirts and not teaching students.
The proceeds are going into what bank account ??
” A ” for effort lady, but ,no cigar.
So teachers should never have any free time? Never time to go to the movies, hang out with friends, read a book, or have a second job (to make up for a low wage)?
Chain them to their desks and lock them in their classrooms. That’s about all those hyper-educated, union-loving, leftie-commie teachers deserve.
No.
Actually, all funds raised from the t-shirts are going to the Gay/Straight Alliance at Brunswick High School.
This teacher does not work every second of her life. She has free time on nights and weekends just like other professionals do.
so then it is political.
Gay/Straight Alliance is a support group, not a political group.
Please, there are lots of gay people who could care less about politics.
“I think this is way out of line for a teacher to be advocating a particular lifestyle,” says Pastor Bob Emrich of Plymouth, a well-known opponent of past gay marriage initiatives ….Sooooo teachers are not allowed to have an opinion like the good ‘christian pastor’ clearly has (because pastors never have influence over children in their particular role? Really? just ask Bob Carlson.) Talk about indoctrination Pfffffft. Do people comprehend that not talking about something in school (or anywhere else for that matter) does not make it NOT exist or make it NOT real? There’s a really good chance your kids, grandkids, nephews and/or nieces are going to choose to leave this wonder bread state of Maine and choose to live elsewhere. BRAVO. AND elsewhere there are all kinds of different people who live and work. Think your kids are never going to encounter Black people, Jewish people, Asian people, Muslim people, Gay people, Atheist people, Latino people, Native American people, people from other countries, single parents, divorced parents, gay parents etc, etc, etc……Of course they will -don’t be so obtuse. What are people so afraid of? You can’t catch ‘gay’ anymore than you can catch straight. I have great hopes your children are smarter, less fearful and way more tolerant of other people’s diversities than many of the narrow minded and bigoted commentators who have spewed their usual myopic views made here re: a freaking T-shirt. Pffffftt.
High school is hard enough. Why can’t people just stick to education? With social media the way it is today, spread whatever word you want to spread in that forum. In school? Yeah, it makes people talk, but that’s all it does. Never forget the day I picked up my son at high school this past fall and this student (male) was running around in the parking lot with high heeled pink pumps, chasing after girls. Asked the son about it, thinking he was part of the drama club..no, mom, he does that every day in the halls. Wow. School should be a safety zone. It’s up to families at home to discuss these things. I don’t care what anyone does in private, just don’t want to hear about it or read it on your shirt at school. Someone should make the heterosexual? t-shirt. See how long that lasts.
Yes, high school is hard enough. High school is very hard, always wondering who accepts you for who you are and who will shun you as soon as they know of your differences. Do you have any idea how painful it is to start making friends (especially when you’re shy and it’s already hard for you to do so) and then have them reject you as soon as you state your sexual orientation? By expressing acceptance of LGBT people, it is much easier for kids to stop living in such pain, confusion, and uncertainty. It’s much easier to feel accepted and loved when there are people expressing acceptance and love.
I come from the near baby boomer age…..not saying it’s right, but in remote portions of Maine, they just kept quiet in high school and signed up for the service the day after graduation and never came back, went West. Not judging one bit, just the way it was. I still think it’s up to the parents to provide the guidance, not school teachers. The poor kid I spoke of before in the local high school is completely flamboyant about his orientation and is picked on and made fun of daily. Wouldn’t it be easier to keep the heels and purses at home than subject oneself to the daily brow-beating and insults? Subject: [bdn] Re: Gay tolerance T-shirt on Brunswick classroom wall triggers wider conversation
Though insults and such are indeed very painful, hiding one’s self is much more so. I am thankful to people like you who do teach their kids to be accepting, but unfortunately, there are not enough people like that. Teachers are too often the only good role models for impressionable youth, and so when they keep quiet and don’t openly express their acceptance of differences, their students are left to believe that it is okay to hurt others because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. If teachers keep quiet about their openness and students hide who they are, the others will only learn ignorance, and it will take much longer for everyone to be and feel loved and accepted.
waynorth … not to stigmatize this student that you mention further, but … I would take the information you report to school officials. That type of behavior on top of him/her being “picked on and made of fun daily” is concerning. I would worry that this is the scenario that leads to tragedies that other schools have experienced. Sounds like this student needs help.
I agree on the help thing without a doubt. I can’t imagine the officials don’t know it….he doesn’t hide it. I hate to say it, but it’s almost that attitude “I am who I am and I don’t care what you think” sort of thing. Hopefully someone steers him in the right direction if indeed he is troubled. You wouldn’t know it from the big smile on his face whenever I see him. Could be a front….. Subject: [bdn] Re: Gay tolerance T-shirt on Brunswick classroom wall triggers wider conversation
waynorth … with the reports and headlines these days, I would not rely on the officials knowing it or more importantly, following up and doing something. I don’t want to read a headline about your son’s or daughter’s school. I know it’s sticking your nose in to other’s business, but it’s because it could affect your family. Hate to sound like an alarmist, but I wouldn’t want to miss a warning signal.
If he was chasing girls then he most likely was not gay just a jerk or a clown, depending on why he was doing it.
I would agree with that if he wasn’t wearing skinny jeans and high heels all day at school. Subject: [bdn] Re: Gay tolerance T-shirt on Brunswick classroom wall triggers wider conversation
Please explain why a gay boy would chase girls?
Respect and tolerance for all gods children clearly “crosses the line” of acceptable behavior for lots of purported “all Americans” “, but less so than before with the passage of time. Praise be.
I wish a message like this had been where I could see it in school. It might have prevented two suicide attempts. This is a message of support and acceptance and should be encouraged, while messages of intolerance and exclusion should be discouraged. The teachers are there to bring their students together and help prepare them for living as adults in the real word. The real world is a very diverse place.
And much of the real world, especially outside of the US , is a very intolerant place. In many parts of the world you risk your life publicly expressing as view different from the local government or people. Most students today are ill prepared for the “real world”.
This teacher should NOT be allowed to sell these on school campuss or even during school hrs. What she does on her own time is her own. But while in the classroom she is to teach. And i agree if it said no gay no way then it would be banned .
Just as if it said “Christian? No way” also would and should be banned whereas “God Saves” is and should be allowed. The difference is in being supportive vs. exclusionary and non-supportive.
The article doesn’t say but I assumed from reading it that the teacher is the faculty advisor for the student group. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but even if I am, a teacher supporting a student group by purchasing a fund-raising item (and telling others about it) is not wrong.
This nonsense went on in our local high school a couple of years ago. Students were harassed by teachers and other students who didn’t support it. Teachers were giving extra credit to students who would wear pro gay tee shirts and participate in pro gay program. Thank God we got a new principal who put a stop to this nonsense and just has students show respect to each other. The teachers who were supporting the pro gay nonsense were the crappy teachers, who couldn’t teach to save their lives.
Must have missed all of this in the press … what school is this that you’re referring to?
We didn’t run to the press, we dealt with it as adults.
So that explains why I missed it in the press. So again, what school is this that you’re referring to? Assuredly if you’re so very proud of your achievements, you’ll have no problem identifying your “local high school”.
It’s over, we have moved on and most of the crappy teachers are gone. If it happens again we’ll handle the same way. For all I know you may live in my town and while you were focussing on yourself this nonsense was going on.
You’re right, I could be living in your town … but how am I to know? Seriously, why are you so afraid of letting us know what school you’re talking about? Could it be that you’re simply making this all up? The truth will set you free.
Are you an Ed Tech at Foxcroft Academy?
Watch carefully what I do here … the answer to your question “Are you an Ed Tech at Foxcroft Academy?” is “No.” See what I did there? I answered your question. Now you try. What school are you referring to? Is it Foxcroft Academy? Because if it is, you are truly mistaken about your original post.
Don’t wait around too long for them to be sent free..don’t think it’s going to happen LOL.
My thoughts exactly! Not holding my breath waiting for that school to be listed.
That’s right, your goons don’t have control over every high school.
“goons” how respectful…how tolerant….And the name of the school was?
For me to know and for you to find out.
No that is truly a post of an adult.
And sticks and stones will break your bones!!!
The thought police at work.
When you are caught lying in this venue (and everyone who has read this thread knows you are lying) it is better to just pack up and move on. Your words no longer carry weight.
Harry, what is I lying about? And no, you are not going to silence me,
I suggested you move on, I said NOTHING about silencing you. You lied, and I thought you might want to know that other posters view you as a joke. Please post on. I need a good laugh.
Harry, you and other posters may view me as a joke, but I know for fact what I experienced when I stood up to the pro gay bullies at my local high school. What pro gay people can’t stand is that someone stands up to their harassing people who disagree with them. Would you like a copy of a letter my family received from Jeannette and Paul Rediker from Fort Fairfield, ME via 46 Betten St Brewer, ME(phony address) in an envelope from EqualityMaine Foundation.
When I asked how they got my address I was told we either wrote a letter to a newspaper or signed a petition. I have even had people come to my door wanting to discuss my views on homosexuality. When I told them they would receive a more favorable response from my neighbors I was told they were there to talk to me.
So you consider teaching students not to be bigots is “nonsense?” That’s pretty horrifying.
I bet you find it “horrifying” I believe homosexual sex is a sin.
How do you feel about Dolphins?
You really want to go there?
I find it laughable and a little bit pathetic.
Get a life.
I believe it is a sin to bring a child into the current world…. I sure do not intend to attempt to foist that view on others.
Of course I find it horrifying. Any decent person would.
And the name of this school was? I ask because I would like to call them and confirm your story.
Why so you can harass them?
No, so I can confirm your story. And until you do, it is just that.
I am assuming this is Nokomis?
Got yourself a sales tax certificate and collecting sales tax on those Ts you are selling? Got to comply with the “necessary’ rules, after all making it easier to conduct business is not what many wish to do.
You do not have to collect sales tax on items sold to benefit a non-profit organization or charity.
Removed…wrong poster.
What organization have they set up? You don’t just declare yourself a non-profit and say you don’t have to pay or collect sales tax.
The school is the non-profit, The Gay Straight alliance is the charity.
Being a non-profit does not make one sales tax exempt. Even departments of the State of Maine collect sales tax on items they sell to the public.
does this mean that i can wear my rebel flag shirt now?
Yeah, go on ahead. Wear a shirt that celebrates the time a group of states decided to commit treason against the United States to preserve their right to own other human beings as property. That’s a pretty classy thing to do, right?
Good luck with that….
Maybe over a bullet proof vest….
I have yet to hear of people being bullied or beat up for wearing a confederate flag shirt
zero politically agenda? yea right. I wonder if it was a tee shirt for Religious tolerance what would of been said.
I have seen many, many students at schools with t-shirts that have religious reference.
I just saw a girl wearing a sweatshirt that read “My Lifeguard walks on water” I am thinking that was a religious message and she was leaving school.
Maybe it is in response to the gay tee shirt. Interesting you do not see (as of yet) someone in the BDN putting that in an article. I wonder if or when somene will complain about that. Maybe she should sell sweatshirts. Though it is interesting the intolerance Liberals have for the Conservative point of view, to the point of down right mean. (yes I know it happens on the other side, but not in all cases)
No it was last week I saw it way before this article came out.
I believe people should have the choice of what to wear and should be able to express themselves freely in the Homeland.
I was walking down the street in an out-of-Maine town, and saw this message emblazoned on the shirt of a rather buxom woman;
IF THEY BOTHER YOU DON’T LOOK
Good advise for everyone.
Anyone want to buy a t-shirt that says “straight? Okay by me?”????? Good lord. If you’re gay, that’s fine by me. Really. But I’d be lying if I said I’m getting so sick of hearing about it all the time. I understand that they are trying to pass gay marriage laws. The state has turned it down. Live your life and be happy and quit spending time flaunting which gender you like to have sexual relations with.
“flaunting”? No one is “flaunting” anything.
It appears to me that EVERYONE is “flaunting “EVERYTHING!
Really Harry? I don’t see anyone flaunting anything. In the past year I have seen two same sex couples (one in Bangor and one in Portland) holding hands in public. In that same time period I have seen thousands of opposite couples holding hands and….gasp kissing in public.
So who is flaunting sexuality in public?
Back off dude… I said EVERYONE… as in facebook and other venues where everyone tells you all about THEMSELVES adnausium.
“Back off dude” little strong don’t you think Harry?
Facebook and other venues are something you subscribe to so if you find that “flaunting” then either don’t subscribe to them or if you do, don’t read them.
That’s the difference I don’t mind “flaunting” by others… I try not to engage myself.
how do you figure no one is flaunting anything? all we read about lately is gay marriage and now pro-gay t-shirts. if they want to teach tolerance and equality then stop singling yourselves out, I don’t go around wearing t-shirts that say I’m Not gay, why do they need to wear one saying they are. I don’t care either way, stop harping on it already
You mean the articles that you choose to read ?
Wow, “gay marriage and now pro-gay t-shirts” is all we read about. Wow! You sure live in a very small world.
“Stop flaunting what gender you like to have sexual relations with.”
Happy too, as soon as YOU stop !
I’ve never flaunted my straightness at all. I have never worn a “Straight Pride” t-shirt, I have never brought up my sexual orientation in conversation. Live your life and be happy. If you want to fight for your rights, do so where and when appropriate, but the craving of attention gets very old after a while.
Are you married? Do you wear a wedding ring? If so – you are flaunting your straightness.
I am married and I do wear a wedding ring. I don’t beg for attention because of my sexual orientation though. I understand that homosexuals want rights and I’m all for them having them. My kids know to treat everyone with decency and respect. I have friends who are gay and friends who are lesbian. They aren’t the “beggy”, “feel bad for me because everyone hates me” type of people (otherwise we wouldn’t be friends). I had a person call my office a few days ago feeling the need to point out that she was gay. Why? I don’t CARE if you’re gay. Then she felt the need to proceed to ask questions about the area (she’s looking for housing) and if people are accepting of homosexuals, if I thought she would fit in here, etc. That’s fine. But then I listened for about 1/2 hour while she chose to tell me her life story and everyone that has hurt her because of her sexual orientation. Sorry, but those who flaunt and whine really get old….quickly.
Like the way you are, right now?
Hypocrite much ?
I think you know what I’m saying.
Yes, you’re saying a lot of things that are obviously not true, things you can not back-up.
How many times must you say “I have friends who(sic) are gay?” Is that not sort of “Flaunting your straightness?”
It’s like the old “I’m not racist, I have black friends” of the sixties and seventies.
It’s just apparent that some of you folks can’t figure it out the first time since you’re thinking I’m anti-gay
Have you ever had a friend or relative thrown off a bridge for being straight? Have any of your friends, relitives, aquaintances, neighbors, or even anyone you knew remotely been dragged out to a fencepost miles from other humaans and tied to that fence, beaten, and left to die because they engage in hetrosexual relations? Have people maarched infront of your house with signs reading “Straight people should die” “Srtraights will all burn in hell” and/or “The lord hates straights”?
If none of these things ever happened to you, you do not need a “Straight Pride” tee shirt.
I’m not judging you. I have done far worse more detestable things to gay folks than what is contained in your post. I was wrong. So are you.
I’ve never done ANYTHING bad to a gay person. I have gay friends! I believe gays are born the way they are born and I believe in treating them the way I wish to be treated, which is that they should be able to live their lives in PEACE and enjoy life to its fullest, just like the rest of us! It’s a cruel world out there and it’s horrible when these types of hate crimes happen. I wonder if the whining is making it better or worse?
The one thing I can say is that this site must attract the whiners, because I know many gays (and as I said, have friends that are gay), and I don’t see this kind of “boo hoo, poor me” stuff from them at all. They are happy and high on life and enjoying every minute of it. I double they are just the lucky ones who happen to squeak by without getting harassed. It might just be their great attitude and being personable, pleasant people.
P.S. And if you have done worse and more detestable things to gays, shame on YOU! I don’t think I’m the one who should be preached to :)
First off, I am certainly fine with people being gay. However, I don’t think it’s someones place to promote anything like this in a school. I do teach my own children these values at home, and that’s my job. The way I see it, if you can’t say the opposite of what you are saying then what you are saying doesn’t belong being said in the school. Just like you can’t hang up something that says “God loves all our students” you also can’t put up something that says “God hates all our students.” If someone can’t hang up something that says “Gay? Not okay!” then the opposite should not be either. Teachers should absolutely be neutral.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes clearly teachers should be ‘neutral’ as the world we all live in is such a ‘neutral’ place- just ask any black person or any Jewish person or any gay person or any person who is NOT white and ‘christian’…..it’s a whole different point of view and experience for these people….and it would be nice to think that people teach (at home) understanding, tolerance and that differences are all equally important and ok and not somehow a bizarre threat to anyone else…..that being said read some of the lovely comments that people have left which are completely ridiculous and based on nothing more than fear, judgement and hate (none of which are very christian like behaviors I might add) toward fellow Americans who also happen to be gay. 2045 kids- that’s when whites will become the new minority in this country…..and what goes around comes around….you reap what you sow….enjoy the new majority and what they legislate.
If all Hispanics are designated “non-white” by the left, will there ever be true tolerance in the USA? My Uncle (with whom I share a first name) is Hispanic (100%) and he is whiter than me (German Swede, Arab, Dutch) Hispanics from Spain are about the same skin shade as Italians, Jews from Israel, and Croatians
It seems to my racist bigoted eyes that it is the liberals, the party of “inclusion” which is intent of fostering divisions and alliances designed to win market share rather than to heal old wounds (which should be healed.)
Yes isn’t handy how a white guy named Harry thinks all the ‘old wounds’ should be healed because it’s uncomfortable for the white people….who have never been on the receiving end of any wounds to begin with. What goes around comes around Harry…..you may not be around to experience it- but your kids and grand kids will be around….and who could blame any minority who legislated the same exact racial BS they have been subjected to since the inception of this country?
Ask the Irish, Italians, Polish, Catholics, etc. if they have ever been on that receiving end of discrimination, violence, hate.
Actually I have been a minority. I lived in the South Bronx. I enjoyed my time there and was never the victim NOT ONCE of a crime.
My Dutch ancestors were burned out of their homes by the English, My Arab ancestors were forced off their lands by the British Empire, and My Swedish grandmother was “purchased” from her father by a wealthy New York Businessman so his wife didn’t have to raise the babies he fathered. During WWII my German relatives were treated as “unwanted Jews” by some, and as NAZI spies by others.
Yeah, I’d surely like to heal old wounds… We probably won’t do it in my lifetime, because even my very mild post elicits the nasty response you typed.
You have your right to your beliefs, and prejudices. Just please don’t label yourself tolerant.
Great post Harry.
you can teach tolerance without singling out any one group like this, I just feel it should be more generalized, tolerance of all types of people is a great thing, I agree staying neutral is not really realistic, but they shouldn’t be picking one group of people to single out and basically look like they are promoting it, which is offensive to some people.
None of you know what it is like to be a gay student in a public school today!
Your statement is incorrect.
After reading all the posts on this subject it still amazes me the ignorance of some people…just amazing. You can almost feel the hate spewing from some of the postings…how sad!
It is not hate..it is shut the heck up and go on with your lives so we can!! Be whatever you want to be AND quit shoving how your wan to live into my life. AND quit bringing it up for vote and please quit trying to shove your choices at me!! This respect thing works two ways. Stop pissing and moaning and quietly move on.
The same could be said for people like you “quit trying to shove you beleafs on the rest of the people ” .” Like you said it works both ways “
I seem to be caught in the middle here; Are you saying that people in a bad place, (like being unjustly placed in a prison) should just shut up and accept this, because advocating change desturbs the status quo or the N.N.N.?
No im saying that they should have the right to marry
Sorry missed that… We are on the same page here.
Ok Np
Wow, you can’t get on with your life because of gay people ?
Who knew we had such amazing powers over you !
Mwaa haa haaa haaaa
Did you grow up in Aroostook?
Why ?
Because I’ll bet that was some tough road….being gay and all.
Back in the 80’s it weren’t no picnic. I know at least a dozen kids that suicided back then; when I read the crap the gay-haters on here post, I make it a point to never forget what their ideals yield: dead kids. Lots of them.
Lost a bunch of young aquantinces through drugs and booze here in Washington County… I know how that feels. You were brave to stay!
Staying would have been easy for me, what was hard was leaving, getting an education, excelling in a profession, and returning to a slightly more enlightened state.
Those of you with a supportive attitude bring light to the lives of those who are oppressed by bigotry and hatred. You never know who will hear you or see your words, you have the power to change lives!
There are many controversies over gay (or straight) this and that. But for me, I’d prefer freedom of how a person desires to live their lives on earth as a matter of choice and others who feel the choices made by others deserve respect no matter what. The article proves this.
Freedoms given to people of this and other countries should also be a matter of choice and respect as to how these displays are made, as shown in this article. Personal freedoms or expressions are important also, but these freedoms should go hand-in-hand with giving others who don’t feel the way you do and vice-versa, respect of sharing the world with you.
If people take issue with the way the school in the article administrates to these freedoms, take it to the school board, but don’t expect much to stop the rights people have to express themselves no matter where the forum is situated.
“Straight and proud of it.”
I wonder if a teacher would be permitted to promote and sell that one at school.
If the implication is to the exclusion of others, I would say no, that would not be allowed. Perhaps, if other T-shirts that included “LGBT and proud of it” were sold, as well, it would show inclusiveness. In other words, I’m straight, I’m gay, and we all get along together.
Being vindictive about it, sort of like the example you provided, is hardly inclusive. For example, a T-Shirt saying, “White and proud of it” sounds the same as your example. “Gay and proud of it” is quite different as we are minorities and there is no chance we ever will be, or could be, great in numbers. Kind of like “Lithuanian and proud of it.” Same deal.
Oh, I see. It’s like affirmative action or special rights for homosexuals. That’s what you’re espousing.
Furthermore, assuming for argument that the implication of “Straight and proud of it” is to exclude others, as you claim, the same could be said for “Gay? fine by me”. It’s purely subjective and all depends on who’s doing the implying. That’s probably one of the reasons why the First Amendment doesn’t distinguish between popular and unpopular viewpoints.
Sorry, I guess I did not make it simple enough.
I am not espousing special rights or affirmative action for gay people. If that were the case, then there would be quotas on hiring or some right greater than ordinary rights and there are neither. Please cite how, in any way, we are getting “affirmative action” or “special rights.”
There is a big difference between these T-shirts and you know it. One is accepting of others and the other is implicitly implying that other orientations are unacceptable, especially given the political climate. Wearing a “White Power” T-shirt makes you a Klan member. Wearing a “Black Power” T-shirt is the same as wearing a “Girl Power” T-shirt. The latter both are groups struggling for equality whereas the White Power guy already in the majority wants to retain his power and feels threatened he is going to lose it and implies he does not want anyone who is not white beside him.
No, you did make it simple enough (“If the implication is to the exclusion of others, I would say no, that would not be allowed”), and I understood the point you were making. Your problem is that I understood exactly what you were saying – and explained that in my post – and you can’t backtrack now and justify your position. In other words, you didn’t anticipate a reasoned response to a foolish comment.
You want to be permitted to express your views to the exclusion of opposing views. And if that’s not bad enough, you reserve to yourself the right to determine by your own interpretation – by your “implication” – the meaning of someone else’s expression. Your position would amount to special rights for homosexuals and, therefore, a denial of equal protection and freedom of expression to others who disagree.
Fine. Make up some T-shirts with all opposing views. Include “The Holocaust Never Happened.” It is your free expression. Just be prepared to accept the consequences of your free expression.
I still do not see any “special rights” as you proclaim. You just are going to have to get over this, or not. Gay people are here. We’ve always been here. We always will be. There probably are a few in your family. Civil marriage for gays will be here soon enough. It’s up to you to stew in your juices or not.
It is…
To those against the actions of this teacher: have you ever experienced going through school and hearing countless people make nasty jokes and comments about your minority? More so, have you seen this happen so often with noone, not even teachers, speak up against it? Noone to protect you from the harsh words of ignorant kids? As an LGBT Jew, I have heard classmates make these jokes and whatnot all the time. Not once can I remember someone saying anything. I’ve always been the one who had to ask them to stop. Recently, one of my gay friends was being constantly harassed by some of his classmates. Each time, he went to the teacher. After a few times of her doing nothing, she basically told him to such it up. THESE are the kinds of teachers we should be worrying about, those who will not protect their students, not the ones who try to create loving, accepting environments (and therefore prevent suicides and depression).
ANYONE… That’s right 100% of students who have attended junior high or middleschool have felt like a discriminated against minority…. and they are all absolutely correct.
I was physically bullied in school for years. I was small, weak, and an easy target. Going to a teacher would have only made it worse. The overt bulling might have stopped but the ones doing it would have come up with other ways. I learned to “s*ck it up”, stay under the radar. I eventually figured out ways to EARN respect and the entire experience made me stronger as a person and has stood me well for over 40 years in the “real world”.
So this is ok, but prayer in school isn’t? This is ok, but an atheist girl in RI wins a case against the school for a prayer posted on a wall? And I love the post by “bandbox;” What happens to the teacher who wants to promote traditional marriage, or being straight?
Kids can pray, teachers just can’t lead the prayer and the school can’t endorse it.
We used to have something called, “a moment of silent meditation,” where you could pray or nod-off, or whatever. No teacher endorsement and pretty neutral as best I could see. Not sure what they are doing today.
So why can being gay be promoted?
The First Amendment of the Constitution specifically forbids the government (the schools) from endorsing any religion. Leading a Christian prayer would be endorsing a specific religion and probably a specific sect of that religion.
Being gay is not a religion.
This issue is separate from marriage, but if a teacher wanted to promote marriage or being straight in such a way that it isn’t hurtful, harmful, or create an “Us V. Them” attitude, go for it. I’m more shocked, than I should be, that those presenting this analogy can’t see the difference in a message of love and affirmation from a message of rejection and inferiority.
But my point is this; what do you think the reaction would be if a teacher promoted being straight? The liberal media would promote him/her as a hater. We all know darn well that a t-shirt saying,”Straight? Ok with me.” would stir the liberal media pot to no end.
If the teacher wishes to promote marriage, I’m fine with that, but not to the exclusion of other marriages. The issue is one of inclusion. The naysayers are all for exclusion. Big difference. No one on the gay side is advocating against traditional marriage or against straight people.
I am for equality. But the liberals tell us we have to seperate church and state, and we can not have any type of conservative beliefs in schools, Christianity is a no, no in schools. If this is the case, than we can’t have liberal beliefs either.
Well, actually, no, the liberals aren’t telling you there is a separation of church and state, the First Amendment to the Constitution is telling you that. It is not that Christianity is a no-no in schools, it is that religion is a no-no in schools. You should not presume that the only religion out there is Christianity and it is being singled out to not be allowed to be taught in schools.
The difference between liberal beliefs and conservative beliefs, as best I can determine is that liberal beliefs include teaching about all facets of the world, how all religions have impacted, and continue to impact society, how all governments work, both pros and cons, and all about history. Teaching “about” something does not mean “endorsing” something. Somehow, the conservatives seem to believe that if you teach someone about the existence of communism and what it entails, then that is in some way endorsing communism. Not true.
The religious conservative schools I have seen seem to shun the idea of learning anything other than a strict doctrine matching only their beliefs to the exclusion of all others. Do they teach real science along side their Creationism? Probably not. That’s the difference. In a liberal school setting, evidence-based science is taught. Perhaps the subject of Creationism comes up in social science classes. The reverse would not be true in a conservative school.
From my viewpoint, kids should be taught about everything they possible can be taught and let them make the decisions as to what is good and bad. The conservative approach reminds me of a set of blinders. We saw that in political figures such as Michele Bachmann. She knew tax law inside and out but little else about the “real world” or much about history. This sheltered, closed view of the world is detrimental. It really is promoting ignorance.
Furthermore, if you really want to have religious conservative values taught, perhaps that should be done at home or in your church, and not in a public school where there are people of many different faiths, not all of them matching yours.
In this case, teaching kids about other gay kids is just factual. Gay kids exist. They really do. They always have and always will. It is fair to teach/encourage kids to have tolerance towards others who are different then them. No judgement is being made. In the conservative school, by contrast, being gay is frowned upon and declared a sin. What message does that tell the gay kid unfortunate enough to be enrolled in a conservative school? Does it “give permission” and justification to the bullies in the school that it is okay to beat up the gay kid because he’s a “sinner?”
I just see no advantage to society to promote ignorance and intolerance.
“.. it is that religion is a no-no in schools.” So why are muslim girls allowed to cover their heads in schools? Isn’t that a part of their faith, religion and way of life? And I know Christianity is being singled out because I have a very good friend who, up until 2 years ago, was an Asst Principal in the L/A area; and he made it quite clear how religion is viewed in schools now.
“Teaching “about” something does not mean “endorsing” something.” I can agree with that. But this article is about a teacher “endorsing,” not teaching. What is she “teaching” by promoting being gay? You may think she is promoting fairness, but what about the kids who are against homosexuality? Is it fair to them to have to see these t-shirts? Just because a child does not believe in homosexuality, doesn’t mean they are haters, or condone violence against them. They just don’t condone it, and choose not to support it, simple as that. But they still have to see it on a t-shirt. Or what about the skinny nerd who is shoved in a locker once a week? Do you think he would like a t-shirt supporting him? Or what about they quiet, shy girl that no one talks to? Do you think she might like a t-shirt supporting her?
“They always have and always will. It is fair to teach/encourage kids to have tolerance towards others who are different then them.” We all went through Jr High, and by far it can be the worst time in ANY child’s life, striaght, gay or otherwise. I would rather see a teacher teach tolerance for ALL kids, not just certain groups.
I don’t think we are that far apart on this. The wearing of religious garb including crosses by Christians has never been banned. That said, the wearing of this garb is not mandated or encouraged by the school administration. As long as the garb does not harm any other kids or is some kind of safety hazard (wearing of the traditional Burmese dha dagger comes to mind), there should be no more concern than a Jewish kid wearing a yamaka. Schools accommodate traditional wear as often as they can. I think this is fair and actually exposes other kids to different cultures and religions. It is a fine line, though. The Christian crowd thinks they are being singled out. I do not see it. You have to understand that having a Christian-only public prayer over the PA is out of line. The goal is to try to be as accommodating and sensitive to varying religious views without planting one’s feet in one camp or another. Our culture has changed and many more people of different faiths have entered the scene. Good manners would dictate we do not force our Christian prayers upon them, just as they do not have a “call to prayers” five-times a day over the public school’s PA system. Christians are going to have to understand they are not the only game in town.
With regard to your paragraph on “teaching.” In fact, I think she is promoting fairness and and understanding of all – not only the gay kids but any skinny, nerdy kid. Saying “No bullying” on a T-Shirt is a good idea but perhaps putting a face on just what that means also is important. Many people have changed their views on same-sex marriage once they have met a gay couple with kids. They see we are just like most other families and all we want is what ever other family has the option to obtain. No more, but also no less.
Your comment about a child “not believing in homosexuality” misses the point. If you substituted the word “homosexuality” with “African-Americanism” or “Judaism,” the picture becomes clearer. In our minds, there is no difference among the terms. We did not choose to be gay, or black, or Jewish. We just are. I have no problem with this T-shirt nor would I have with one supporting blacks, Jews, or any other minority. The point is to promote tolerance of others who are not like you. You know, the sad part about racism in the 1960’s and the Civil Rights era was that many of the whites truly believed they were right and that segregation should exist and that blacks were lesser human beings. They actually believed this. Your comments about kids not believing in homosexuality reminds me a lot of that era.
Besides, has anyone heard of any objections by the kids? I think the adults are the ones who have their knickers in a twist about this. Look at the repeal of DADT. Very successful with no reported incidences, and that is with a group that could not be more macho. It simply is this – look at the demographics – old people are far less supportive of SSM and gay rights. Young people think of this as very commonplace. They have gay friends. They think nothing of it. In time, as the oldsters die off and the young people take over, we will think no more of SSM than we do today of inter-racial marriage – something that was taboo until 1967, only 45 years ago.
Wayno, I have no issues with divergent opinions being presented in schools. What are you afraid of?
I am afraid of nothing. But Google “RI aetheist student,” and take a look at the numerous articles. If a prayer must be removed for promoting Christianity, than a gay t-shirt can not be allowed in a school either. And I have no issues with folks differing opinions, but I do have issues with folks who take it to court and get things removed. So my beef is; if you can’t have any conservative opinions in schools, than you can’t have liberal ones either.
Interestingly, both First Amendment issues. The basic deal is that kids can pray in schools, they can wear their religious garb, they can wear a pro-gay T-shirt. They probably are not allowed to wear something that is considered racist or against a particular protected minority. It should be a positive message, essentially, and nothing to incite hatred or violence toward others. I think that is fair. That is the Freedom of Speech aspect. You can say what you want but you can’t yell “Fire!” in a movie theater. “Burn all Jews” is the equivalent of “Fire!” in a movie theater.
As far as prayer goes, kids can pray. It just cannot be led by the school administration or teachers who are considered part of the government. If a teacher wishes to hold bible studies off-campus and not as a part of her position as a school teacher, that’s fine. But, as a teacher and a member of the administration, she acts as an agent of the state and is Constitutionally barred from endorsing or promoting ANY religion, Christian, Jewish, Islamic, or otherwise.
You can have liberal and conservative views in school. They just cannot involve religion. I would not want to have a teacher promoting the very liberal Universalist-Unitarian church any more than I would want him promoting the ultra-conservative Catholicism.
Didn’t know traditional marriage was having such a problem. I have heard of no traditional marriages being stopped or not allowed.
I have not heard of straight students being discriminated against either.
Nice to see so many students were willing to send a positive message. More and more young people are being brought up without the hate and intolerance of previous generations.
Gay-Straight alliances, in high schools across the country, are often the only place where LGBT teens can escape or find an advocate against intolerance and bullying. These groups aren’t trying to indoctrinate anyone. They are providing a safe environment, so gay and straight teens can find common ground and communicate beyond their differences. Just like any other high school organization, they need to have events and functions that would provide the money necessary to keep the group going. This is productive and sends a message to other LGBT teens and questioning youth that they can feel safe and respected, and not ashamed about who they are.
This is wrong on so many levels.
How?
because this is not the place to “promote” one group of people, I am not against anyone being gay per se, but I don’t think this message belongs in school, I agree with the people that are saying just promote anti-bullying, promoting homosexuality is an affront to some people and it is no more correct than promoting any other personal life style choice. We need to teach kids tolerance of diversity, but not push any one group like this. Stick to teaching our kids, not pushing their morals and values on them, that is the parents job.
2004…
http://www.adamflanders.com/images/misc/activism/a26.jpg
Any word on how he’s doing? That was 8 years ago? I was unfamiliar with his story. Good one. I printed it out. Thanks for posting it!
:)
I graduated with my Bachelor’s in Biology and I’m working on grad school at UMaine. This is more about the activism I did when in high school and shortly thereafter, particularly the anti-discrimination bill in 2005 that added sexual orientation and gender identity to our list of protected classes here in Maine, of which 55% of Maine voters supported. I was featured in the NY Times for some of my work.
http://www.adamflanders.com/activism.html
I’m glad things have changed a little since I was in high school, though we still have a long way to go.
Adam – I didn’t even notice your name on the original posting – sorry. It’s you! Yes, great story and congratulations! I graduated from H.S. back in 1973 and eventually worked my way to Washington, DC, where I worked on Gay Hotline starting in 1980, the March on Washington (I did the aerial photos), and other Pride events. Many of us worked very diligently way back then just for basic civil rights. Getting a security clearance, not being arrested, and all that – marriage wasn’t even on the list, although I wish it had been. Neither the public nor, I would say, the gay population thought it possible. Frank Kameny helped me get my clearance at the Pentagon. It was an exciting time. If you have not already, you should see the film, “Milk.” It really accurately portrays the time and transported me back to that era.
All through the 1960’s to as late as the late 1990’s, I thought things were going along fine as far gay rights were concerned. Of course, we had our set of bible thumpers including Anita Bryant and Jerry Falwell. But, for the most part, they were a lot of noise and eventually, basic civil rights were won. At least, for the most part, people were not being fired simply because they were gay. Public acceptance was on the rise and gay TV characters also started appearing.
The gay marriage issue is one that I had no idea, honestly, would be such a big deal. We are talking about secular, civil marriages that have nothing to do with a church. My thought was that we needed to convince the government. It was an easy open-and-shut discrimination issue on the books – and it really is – where two people are discriminated from entering into a contract based upon gender. That is logical and simple to me. I never expected the churches to get into such a snit about all this since it has nothing to do with them. They could perform a ceremony or not – up to them. No one expected the stone-age churches to do so, but who cared? If you really wanted a religious-based wedding ceremony performed there are plenty of churches, and have been for years, who would perform the ceremony. Where was the Catholic church, for example, impacted by a gay wedding when they aren’t even performing it? Well, forget about logic with this crowd – there isn’t any.
It probably was naivete on my part – not being raised in a religious background, I always thought it to be the biggest load of claptrap ever foisted upon mankind, but that’s my opinion. For some reason, the religious crowd thinks they own the word “marriage” when it is used by both the secular and the sectarian, defining similar but different concepts.
I guess my point is that civil rights seem to be something that must be fought for by every generation. Here in DC, we really are very mainstream. You only see young guys at bars and clubs – the volume of which are way down from my era. There used to be dozens. There is no longer a real need for a gay-specific bar or restaurant. We have become mainstream and that is a good thing. I thought to myself, “job well done by all.” But, I can see it is not over.
My guess is that it is a perfect storm of a down economy, people looking for a scapegoat, and an uptick of religious fundamentalism, probably caused by slowly declining economy over the past decade or so. There has been kind of a backlash. I thought the AIDS crisis would experience that but it was nothing compared to what we see now. The reaction of the religious right reminds me of the whites in the South during the 1964 Civil Rights Act era. Their attitude was, “If you can’t be better than a black, who can you be better than?” I am getting the impression that us becoming married, having kids, and settling down is almost an affront to the diehard religious crowd. We are getting awfully “big for our britches,” if you will. This is about the last big civil right I see for the time being. Yes, there is remaining work to do. Hopefully there will be a time when young kids won’t hang themselves because they were told by the religious nutbars they were going to Hell, anyway.
Good luck, Adam. You are an inspiration to all of us, and especially to your generation!
Hey, teachers! Leave those kids alone……….
All in all, you’re just another brick in the Wall.
Wonderful… Keep it up teachers.
This is one where I think the intention is good and I like and support the sentiment of what they are doing, but I do have to question the method because by singling out one class of people who are sometimes bullied, you push attention off other classes of people who are bullied (sometimes minorities, physically disabled kids, kids with other kinds of disabilities, shy and less “popular” kids, weaker kids, kids with other kinds of “different” attitudes or lifesyle patterns with regard to everything from clothes and hair styles to music and other artistic preferences, etc.), and it opens the school to claims, as it has, of “promoting a controversial political position” even if that is not their intention at all. I think it would be better, as is done in most schools, to have a vigorous anti-bullying program with t-shirts, buttons, meetings, etc. with a more general message of “Say No To Bullying !” or “We Won’t Stand For Bullying !” or “Stomp Out Bulling !” or something like that with education and attention to ALL forms of bullying. Again, I like and appreciate the sentiment and intention very much, but I think in this case, where this is a public school that should emphasize all forms of bullying and given the controversies surrounding the gay/straight political issues outside the school, I think it would be better to stick to a very robust but broader approach to dealing with the issue of bullying. I think they are opening themselves up to too much controversy here and they risk that becoming a diversion from the larger issue and all forms of bullying.
it is wrong to bring politics into the classroom. It is also an example of what will come
Apparently you did not grow up during the Vietnam war. That’s all that we discussed in Current Events and debate classes. Politics, Nixon, the war, the economy – these were all subjects discussed and debated in school.
Have schools reverted to some sanitized version of idealism, or are they providing a forum for debate, discussion, and preparation for the real world?
I missed the “what will come” part. What will come, in your opinion?
Yes tolerance is such a bad thing.
This makes me very angry! Hopefully the gay supporters will keep it up and blow it this November.
It didn’t happen like that in the 1960’s and 1970’s with the Civil Rights marches. The factor here is this is a positive message of inclusion for all. It is the antithesis of hate speech. Positive messages are accepted. Negative ones not.
“Save the Whales” T-shirts are accepted. “Whale sushi today!” perhaps not.
There is no justification for bigotry and hatred toward any minority group. Messages that promote inclusion and acceptance are seen as positive and will have long-term positive effects, including this November.
My teacher’s pet is a hamster.
I’m not against gay and have always had trouble understanding why some people have a problem but a math teacher promoting her feelings to her students is wrong. What would happen to the teacher that had a tee-shirt that said, “Gay, NOT fine by me”. We all know where that would go and this belongs in the same place.
The difference is that one is an affirming message of inclusion, the other is a message of intolerance and seperation. Every student should feel welcomed and safe.
The problem is that the US Supreme court has ruled that if a message is accepted in a venue (like by the F.C.C.) than groups and individuals have the right to advocate their opposing message. The court has also stated that students do NOT lose their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse door.
If you take the time to think it through, both messages are the same. You just don’t agree with the one that has “NOT” in it.
We don’t want our schools to be a place where children feel safe and included do we entitled4life. *Sarcasm Intended*
I knew that at least one person would not really read the message and it’s no surprise that it was you. Do you ever bother to read before you write or do you just like to get right down to putting your foot in your mouth?
I just learn from the master, Master.
Right now it is hard for gays. The opposition is screaming pervert, sinner, etc. i guess she was trying to make those students, who feel horrified at what they are being called, a little better.
The message this story sends to me is that younger people are doing fine with this issue WITHOUT adult intervention. I’m not a big fan of pushing ANY social issues in a math class (where US students fall behind many other countries) but if the Brunswick students and taxpayers are not complaining, I guess I won’t either.
“Here is another fine mess you’ve gotten me into!”
There is no way the anti-Marriage Equality and anti-gay crowd is going to do anything but latch onto this like a dog to a bone.
However, what seems to me to be the big difference is that, in school, kids should be made aware of all aspects of culture, all different types of people, and all different beliefs. This is what education is all about – learning about history, the world, and current events. Where the social conservatives seem to lose this understanding is that they believe teaching about a particular subject implies that it is endorsed. This is not the case.
We teach about Hitler, Stalin, and Tojo. We teach about the history of slavery and how it still exists today, now called “human trafficking.” We endorse none of these elements of history. But, if left to the social conservatives, only their version of what is good, proper, and Christian should be taught. This does a disservice to our children. I went to Dachau and saw the sign, “Those who fail to recognize history are condemned to repeat it.” In a true “liberal arts education” (as we used to call it) we were taught about anything and everything, good and bad, and it gave us a broad-based view of the world. We were assumed to be intelligent enough to figure it out for ourselves Nazism isn’t the best form of government. We were not protected or sheltered from the world. We saw the day-t0-day carnage of Vietnam. Personally, I think this is the best approach for teaching tomorrow’s leaders. Clearly, the social conservatives put forth by the GOP this time around are utterly clueless to history and how the “real world” works. They live in a sanitized version of the world created by their limited exposure to life. I do not want some muppet for President. I want one that is “street wise.” The religious right social conservatives are anything but “street wise.” Naive is perhaps a better word.
In this case, having children understand there are kids right beside them who are gay and who perhaps are being bullied is important. This extends to all minorities. I see no problem with this as it is a valid and present aspect of our world. Gay teenage suicides are high. Acknowledging this tragedy and its causes goes a long way to reducing bullying in general and assuring gay kids in school that they are not alone.
In fact, I will make a deal with the social conservatives. They are welcome to teach about all religions and how they affected history and continue to affect events today, as long as it does not endorse any one religion. They are welcome to teach that some people believe in Creationism and what that consists of, as long as it is not endorsed. We still will teach science as that is evidence-based knowledge just as is mathematics and gravity. They are welcome to teach current events from Fox News as long as equal time is given to MSNBC, BBC, and Al Jazerra. They are welcome to present their views on the sins of homosexuality as long as equal time is given to gay families to present their lives.
I then am willing to allow the chips to fall where they may. I doubt I will have any takers from the social conservatives.
I have an idea. Why not offer some T-shirts for sale that say: “Gay? It’s a sin!” and see how many of those are sold.
Kids will take good over hatred any day.
Because the people who posted those shirts on their classroom walls would be fired for being bigots and intolerant. They would be escorted out of their classrooms by police and forever shunned for espousing their opinions. Meanwhile, a few doors down, the “Gay, fine by me” crowd would continue classes by discussing the purity of their opinion and why a one-sided view and trampling on the sensitivity of others is fine by them.
In my opinion, none of this should be allowed in school. You are there to teach core subjects, not personal beliefs or opinions; that is why they removed religion from schools.
This is another example of why I homeschool.
And, I would say “rightly so.” There is a big difference between being open and accepting of others versus excluding others and promoting bullying. I don’t know why the promotion of positive messages are equated with being unfair to negative messages.
If we do a fair comparison using an example: “World Peace is Possible.” What’s wrong with that? Contrast that with “Jews should stay in Israel.” Is banning the anti-Jewish T-shirt “trampling on the sensitivity of others?”
They removed the teaching of specific religious tenets from our schools because public schools need to teach all of the public, not just a specific religious dogma shared by a few. Additionally, religion should be taught by religious organizations and not by public schools as we have a separation of church and state, clear as a bell, and any selection of any one religion would be the government endorsing one religion over another – simply unconstitutional to do so. Kids still can pray, or not, in school. It’s up to them. It will not be held over the PUBLIC address system, nor endorsed by the public school because of the First Amendment. This is plain as day simple. That said, the history of all religions may be taught in school as religion is an essential part of history in that it was a major factor in wars, migration of peoples, the rise and fall of various civilizations and so forth. We cannot exclude religion from history, thus it is taught in the context of how it affected history without teaching or endorsing specific tenets of any given religion.
I disagree on core subjects only idea and thus also on the homeschooling which I feel is a great disservice to children. School is all about the core subjects but also about socialization and interaction with others in our society. We need to have kids learn about all different forms of government, people, societal views, current events, and varying opinions. Slapping blinders on them and having them see a sterilized, limited, protected, and unrealistic view of the real world, in my opinion, does little to prepare them for the real world. It’s like the old Catholic school deal – once those kids got out from under the thumb of oppression from those schools, it was like they were shot out of a cannon. They got a great “book” education but quite a few had a difficult time interacting with others from different cultures and differing religious backgrounds. I have gay friends, raised in strict Catholic schools. They had a heck of a time adjusting to the real world. They claim to be ex-Catholic but now in their 60’s, I see their ex-Catholic status as much like being an ex-Burn Victim. You may be out of the fire but the scars are still there.
You may raise your children however you see fit. I just hope they are prepared for the real world and realize that gay people always have been here and always will be. That is just another fact of life you may not find in religious school teachings or in the home-schooling planner.
Instead of Gay
use Homosexuality… They’ll probably sell like hotcakes! Liberal groups are
very clever in how they co-op or hijack words to smooth the edges of their
cause. Gay? Doesn’t sound bad right? Why call it Gay marriage? Perhaps to make
it more palatable to the masses? Why not call it what it is Homosexual
Marriage?
Take the term “Assault
Weapon”. Sounds menacing right? Assault weapon simply means a muzzle suppressor
for the barrel, modified stock, bayonet attachment etc. Assault weapon has
nothing to do with the rate of fire of the weapon; however a negative impression is placed in
the minds of folks that hear it.
Oh, please. Talk about an old argument. Is that the best you have? How the word gay became associated with being homosexual came about long before I was ever around. I suspect as few people use the clinical word, “heterosexual,” the term gay may have come about instead of the clinical word, “homosexual.” I really have no idea but as a touch-typist I am thankful it did. Much like “same-sex marriage” which I must have typed a thousand times, I prefer SSM – much quicker. I never was crazy about the term “gay,” but there are lots of similar situations in English where words have morphed meanings over the years.
And, also, liberal groups hold no exclusivity to coming up with different words to smooth over or incite their audience. Abortion can be either “pro-life” or “pro-choice.” Those against SSM yammer on about “religious freedom.” Huh? Exactly how does secular civil marriage having zero to do with any church somehow impact your “religious freedom?” Cite one example where the passage of SSM will impact your religion.
“Morality” is another one. Talk to an Islamic Imam. To him, I’m sure your wife, not covered from head to toe in a burka, is little more than an “immoral harlot.” I think “spare the rod, spoil the child” is immoral but I would be stepping on someone’s “religious freedom.”
As far as assault weapons go, as an NRA member (yes, a homo with a gun [several, actually]) call an assault weapon (legally sold in the USA) for what it is: a semi-automatic rifle/pistol. There are no “automatics” out there unless you have a BATF license and you spend the bucks for a fully automatic machine pistol/gun. That said, why anyone would want one is beyond me. Any good semi-automatic could be had for less cost. Give me a Browning or a Benelli any day. As far as pistols go, my PPK manufactured right in Houlton and my .38 Spl are two of my favorites.
Thanks for the laugh, you are absolutely right, calling a big gun with a big knife attached to it an “assault weapon” IS a really unfair negative connotation !
Isn’t this just wonderful… enabling aberrant behavior by rejecting natural law so that every tentative and undisciplined child succumbs to a godless philosophy that promotes acceptance of all things that destroy spirit and flesh.
Perhaps, are you related to this guy? Your statement sounds very familiar!
http://youtu.be/Ykn8YcIbmfo
Un natural? Really? Check again? Your Science teachers must have skipped that part because there is more homosexuality in nature than anywhere else. Godless, is you posting what you just posted. Read your Bible hon.
Segregationists said the same thing about civil rights then, as you are saying about gay rights now.
How about ‘gay, not ok with me’ ? Any other teachers at Brunswick High have the brass to
wear and sell some of these?
Why stop there? “Jewish? Not okay with me.” “Black? Not okay with me.”
What’s the difference?
Do you not recognize the difference in intent of those shirts? One is specifically designed to harm and the other is to help.
Disagree … believe the t-shirt missed the mark trying to “help” and came across more like trying to “promote”. Widen the base about all the personal decisions that invite intolerance, bullying, and harassment … color, accent, clothes, interests, etc.
What if homosexuality is a total affront to someone who is devoutly religious? Is that message, that the student must look at all period, then interpreted by that individual as “welcoming and inclusive”?
And if 150 classmates of this devoutly religious student start wearing t-shirts with that message of homosexual endorsement, then you have a mob scene espousing a message that makes a minority student VERY uncomfortable. Talk about bullying…
We should check history in the South. What did the mostly white, segregationist students think when a kid wore a “Civil Rights 1964” T-shirt?
Being devoutly religious is not a hall-pass for bigotry and intolerance.
Perhaps, if 150 classmates started wearing this T-shirt, this devoutly religious student should adhere to the advice provided by his devoutly religious church to the gay student: “Leave and go to another school – you are not wanted around here.”
Fair is fair.
We should recognize that there would be very different intents behind those shirts. The “gay? fine by me” is about helping students who generally feel uncomfortable or at times bullied better about going to school. The intent of the shirts some commenters are suggesting is very different.
I think you missed my point. I am in agreement with you. The anti-gay crowd cannot seem to draw a parallel between gay rights and any other civil rights issue. As I have said in several postings, promoting positive messages are accepted everywhere. That does not mean we democratically must also post the opposing messages of hate and intolerance.
Would anyone disagree with “World Peace Is Possible” on a T-Shirt? Does that mean we need to have a T-Shirt that says, “Nuke the Entire World?”
The anti-gay crowd is wrapped around the axle on two fronts. One is their interpretation of whatever version of the bible they claim they have read and the edicts from their Grand Poobahs on high who are desperately clinging for power in an ever increasing secular world. The second is they are hung-up on sex and thus naturally assume that gay marriage is all about gay sex because, after all, spousal-love between two people of the same gender is not possible (in their minds). They don’t “get it” and they are not going to “get it.” It is almost a Fool’s Errand to try to discuss this with them.
As long as this ignorance persists you will have these people wringing their hands and claiming the “end times” are upon us. BTW, I have heard about the “end times” all my life. So far, same-old same-old. In the entire 4.6 billion years the earth has been around, they are so presumptuous to believe the world will collapse within their own puny lifespan. I keep hauling out this video, but in 1929, Billy Sunday, one of those fire-and-brimstone preachers, declared the demise of society. Oh, pul-leeze!
http://youtu.be/Ykn8YcIbmfo
I have reached an age where I am tired of suffering fools.
Once
upon a time we said prayers in school;
We
paid tribute to our country,
And
those who gave their lives in her defense;
We
honored our parents;
And
we spoke the name of God with reverence.
Once
upon a time moral principals guided our progress,
And
we eschewed evil:
We
punished wrongdoing in the courts of the land,
Rewarding
truth with justice and honor.
Once
upon a time we were a nation of believers:
Believers
in our heritage;
Believers
in the dignity of man;
And
believers in God.
Look
at what has become of us…
Jason-Wilhelm Prediger
(excerpted from the novel 2034)
No Truer Words! I hate to be Johnny rain cloud first thing
this morning but the writing is on the wall for our society – it will collapse.
Our permissive culture: Abortion, homosexuality, drug use dependency etc. Every
norm is questioned or cast aside in the interest of pleasure or desire. I see
us disintegrating along the lines of Yugoslavia – Christian against Atheist,
Socialist etc. To think of the damage that Liberalism and so called tolerance has
done to our young people.
The longest lasting and strongest civilization to ever live was accepting of homosexual. It survived over 2,000 years. The end of us will not be homosexuality, it will be division. The Netherlands has had SSM for 11 years now and is much stronger than we are, we will die off because of our hatred toward eachother. The Bible states that all civilizations will end. Why are we special.
You are only proving our case. I pray every day. My students say the pledge everyday. I teach them partriotism responsibility. I am a gay woman. They do not know this.
You’re right, they don’t need to know this, nobody needs to know, which leads me to this question. Why must gays always announce that they are gay with t-shirts, banners, parades etc, they are the ones that are creating the turmoil?
Gays have such an in your face attitude that they are begging for ridicule and hatred. We don’t care so why are you trying to force us to care? Why can’t you get it thru your heads that we don’t give a sweet crap and that it’s not you, as a person, we hate, it’s your attitude.? It’s your attitude of believing that you have special rights because of your sexual orientation and your forceful insistence that the rest of us must conform.
Schools have no right to interject sexuality into their curriculum regardless of orientation. When I send my child to school it’s to learn reading, writing and arithmetic, the rest I’ll teach at home the way I see fit. Next thing you know, they’ll make being gay an elective and give a full class credit for it.
Try being tolerant of me and my views, I don’t care so get out of my face!! You’re the one bullying me.
Gays do not ALL have an in your face attitude. There are thousands of us who work and live along side our fellows. There are only a small portion who are doing the things you say. She didnt interject anything into the curriculum but she should not do what she is doing unless there has been violence against gays at her school and she is trying to stop it.
I am not asking anyone to conform and being gay has nothing to do with sex. 50% of priests are admittedly gay and they are only required to remain celibate. The Bible and the Pope says people are made gay but many of them do not have sex.
Why are you yelling at me?
lol I’m not yelling at you and any reference I made to “you” is strictly a generic “you”. I appreciate the fact that you don’t throw it in people’s faces and I respect you for that.
So would you tell a straight teacher she can’t have a photo of her husband on her desk? Or would you tell a married female teacher not to attend school while she’s pregnant?
Seems like you’re wanting to hold gays to a much different standard.
No I don’t, but this article is about gays, not about straights. I wouldn’t care if a gay teacher had a picture of her/his partner either.
You’re a classic example of what I’m talking about. I like jersey because she can articulate without badgering, you on the other hand, I don’t like you because you’re aggressive and demanding, it’s all about the personality of the person, not the sexual orientation.
I do have a pic of my partner on my desk. Please think about me when you vote instead of those who condemn you. I think we all should compassionate to eachother. I think kids go through enough without confusing them further. I also think they should know that they are accepted regardless. The action this teacher took is not the right thing to do.
dis·gust·ing [dis-guhs-ting}
adjective causing disgust; offensive to the physical, moral, or aesthetic taste.
Synonyms
loathsome, sickening, nauseous, repulsive, revolting, repugnant, abhorrent, detestable.
Right back at ya’.
YAY for this teacher.The best of Maine!
Before you mince around the room with joy, remember this: 70% of Maine fourth-graders read below proficiency.
This is another classic example that our schools have become little more than liberal indoctrination camps, not institutions of learning.
Pathetic.
Apples and oranges. It’s a national trend. Needs to be fixed.
As far as liberal indoctrination camps, clearly you are not a product of the 1960’s and 1970’s and the Vietnam War era. Then, we had liberal views, freedom for all, and open discussions. Now, I see rather mundane pablum being fed to our kids. Where are the debate teams, Current Events classes, Civics, political discussion forums, etc? Where are the Arts & Sciences? To me, it seems like we have regressed. I was a product of the Space Race and Science ruled. Now, we have people reverting to religious superstition to explain real world events. Liberal indoctrination camps? Hardly.
Maybe those of you who are so focused on hating and bashing gays, should step back and realize you are developing bullying behaviors in kids, both your own and others. It’s intolerance and ignorance that breeds this hatred. Our kids learn what we teach them. To hate other races, to hate people that have different beliefs than our own. So what if they prefer to keep the company of the same sex. At least the chances of teenage pregnancy drops. That’s cannot be a bad thing
There you go again… when anyone disagrees with the “Gay Lobby” the reaction is always predicatable… use the same one liners from the talking points handbook. “Ignorant, Hateful, Uneducated, JUDGEMENTAL (A personal favorite of mine) Backwoods, Bashing etc. Classic technique to put you on the defensive…
By putting “gay lobby” into quotes like that, you’re being ALL of those things.
If the red glitter pumps fit, geekslayer, wear ’em !
Hey math teacher, how about you teach this math in your class?
5And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and be joined to his wife;
8And they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more two, but one flesh.
9What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mark 10
He made them male and female however, every year there are 1 in 600 babies born with un determined gender. In the beginnings of time there were hermophadites…how do you explain this?
No, sorry.
We learn those things in church.
Not in math class.
More agendas being pushed into schools. Can we please stop this social invasion into our schools. Students need ACADEMICS.
Social invasion have always been around. Segregation being one of the largest. Kids under their desks for bomb attacks etc. School is a place where they not only learn about reading but about what is going on in the world and they learn how to function in society.
Like prom?
Another problem with our schools today is that there are not
enough men teaching. There are way too many “understanding” female
teachers that by design or not, have succeeded in emasculating our young men.
Boys need male role models in their lives… to put a little fear in them when they
act up. People try to pretend that this does not matter but it does. When I was
in school and around the mousey male teachers or female teachers, I felt embolden and
would act up or show off for the Girls. With the male teacher that was a bit aggressive,
rugged… as we use to say half a bubble off of plumb I
kept my mouth shut and did my work.
I am a female teacher. I am a tough teacher. i work with the most difficult boys and they call me a warden. I agree that there should be more male teachers but dont think for a minute that a woman cant be tough…..I also have an issue with feel good child rearing. Sit down, shut up, and do what you are supposed to do. period.
No offense intended. Nice to know that there are teachers out there such as yourself that are putting up the good fight. We need discipline and good order in our schools and it appears that you are seeing to that. Thank You.
Wow, what an interesting concept, i.e., “Sit down, shut up, and do what you are supposed to do.”
Would that include radical ideas like teaching math in a math class and not using the classroom to promote a personal point of view on other matters?
I am sure she is teaching Math but IDK I am not in her classroom. I am an advocate for SSM but I really wish she had not have done this. I tis ok to stop bullying but this is not good for our cause. Please do not think that we, as teachers, are teaching this to our students. I am a gay woman. i am a teacher. I DO NOT teach this nor do my students know I am gay. It isnt their business. However, they all know i am here for them no matter what and i have had one or two come out to me because they trust me not because they think I am gay.
They shouldn’t be pushing any specific political or religious doctrines in public schools. Would those with an opposite opinion be allowed to post something on the walls too?
That’s an interesting question.
They can and they do everyday. Children wear Christian articles, Jewish articles, pagan, etc. They should all be allowed to express, within school policy and reason. We have a Christmas tree every year. I am not Christian but I fully welcome it. Students should be aware of all beliefs. We are Americans after all.
There’s a huge difference between your opinion supporting tolerance and acceptance and your opinion support hate and bigotry. One has a place in society, and the other should be kept to yourself.
All the drugs, alcohol, pill snorting, violence etc in schools and Bob Emrich is worried about gay kids? Seriously?
Three cheers to McKell Barnes! She has my full support: ” gay? fine by me” sums up my position precisely, as I have a gay adult child whom I adore and who is a terrific middle school special ed teacher in a Western state. We must respect human rights for all, no exceptions!
Yet another good reason to home-school your children. I would never send mine to a school that openly supports perverts. Next the kids will be wearing NAMBLA t-shirts.
Next you’ll be teaching your children the world is flat.
Exactly what do you have against the North American Marlon Brando Lookalike Association ?
There are lots of perverts in this world, most of whom are heterosexual, ask any teenage girl or woman.
“The fact that people mistreat each other, whether it’s bullying or anything else, is just wrong,” he said. “To turn it into an issue of gay or straight minimizes that. Why not have T-shirts that say ‘Overweight? Fine by me’? Why don’t they do short or tall? You don’t see a tall-short alliance, do you? If this is really about bullying and people being treated fairly, why not do that? I would support that 100 percent.”
This guy is a hypocrite – by not acknowledging that gay students face more harassment and bullying than a short person (give me a break), he is mistreating gay people. No one is “encouraging” a gay “lifestyle” – they are encouraging love and acceptance for people different from themselves, which is clearly a lesson this Pastor missed in Sunday School!
He misses a lot of things…..like that Jesus said divorce is a sin and never even spoke o homosexuality. Emrich has been divorced, accused of adultery (accused does not mean it happened but jus sayin) and his ex wife is gay. He really has nothing to say here. That being said kids should learn to respect everyone. However, it is the ignorance of the adults that causes them to be cruel in the first place.
This is actually hurting our cause. This is not what SSM is about. This woman did this to sabotage the vote.
It’s not a political agenda. She’s trying to make schools a safer and more accepting place.
But their big argument was that it would be taught in schools and the DOE swore it wouldnt. I realize this isnt teaching it but they will run with it anyway.
You are correct jersey.
If a child wore a shirt to school that says I <3 Jesus or a shirt that says Hetero..Ok by me; he/she would be made to wear it inside out. I think the schools should stick to "schooling" and leave politics, religon and sex education to the parents!
How do you know that is true?
Because it has happened many times already.
Prove it.
The burden of proof is on you, go do a search.
No, it’s not. I’m not the one who made the claim.
Do the search yourself anyway.
Funny how your tune changes so easily.
My tune hasn’t changed, you’re just too lazy to go look for yourself or you’re afraid you might be faced with a truth you don’t want to know.
Yes, your tune has changed. You were talking about burden of proof and now it is an issue of laziness? Seems like you don’t have a point, you’re just throwing mud and seeing what sticks.
Have some integrity.
I have noticed this is the first trick out of your bad, every post. Consider this a standing post: prove every assertion you ever make on here, within the post. If you fail to do so, then it establishes that you are a liar or fraudster.
I’m just asking for proof of a very affirmative claim. If you say 20% of people don’t pay taxes, I have every right to ask for proof of that. If you say that a child would be forced to wear a shirt inside out, I have every right to ask for proof of that. Etc.
It isn’t a “trick” to ask someone to prove that the facts they use are indeed true.
“But there are some, such as Pastor Bob Emrich of Plymouth, a well-known opponent of past gay marriage initiatives and chairman of a group called Protect Marriage Maine in opposition to this November’s referendum, who don’t think a public school is an appropriate venue for such a conversation.”
Says the man who goes to Uganda to advocate a death sentence for gays.
There is no wonder the school systems are screwed up, the american family has rotted from within. Homosexual activity is a sin plain and simple……..
Will you burn them at the stake or stone them. Your bible gives you the choice.
News flash, not everyone believes in the bible.
It’s always interesting that the people claiming to be the most “religious”
Are the ones who are also most intolerant.
Why is it that I’m “intolerant” because I don’t agree with you? You’re the intolerant one for not respecting my right to an opposing view.
What total ignorance.
You are not intolerant because you disagree with me. And of course I never said that. That’s just something you made up.
You are intolerant because you want to deny gay men and women a chance to enjoy the same rights that you have.
And you are intolerant because you condemn people who have a different lifestyle than you.
What rights? When the Govt imposes their rules it’s not rights, it’s privileges. As a Christian I believe that only God sanctions marriage, the State for their own purposes regulate it.
Imagine a time before the early 1900’s when people got married in the Church without having to buy a license, then imagine a time when the govt decided that they would keep blacks from marrying whites by imposing a license on getting married. Imagine a time when the govt said to themselves, hey, this could be a great money making opportunity and combined with the license we could actually profit and control at the same time.
When people get married it’s all about financial benefits, that includes Christians, because they have allowed the Govt to override God. If you want benefits, get your own and you won’t have to worry about getting married.
I don’t condemn people who have a different lifestyle than me, there are many people who have a different lifestyle than me in many different ways, I believe in live and let live. The point I’m making is stop bullying me into your lifestyle and I will keep my distance from yours.
I judge people for what kind of person they are rather than their sexual orientation so I can not agree with the action but that doesn’t change the way I feel about the person.
So, telling a gay student who gets bullied that he/she is “fine” somehow is “bullying” towards you? That is ridiculous.
We’re wasting our time.
“When the govt imposes their rules it’s not rights it’s privileges”
I guess the Founders mistakingly called the document our country was built on THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
Do you think it should be called the “Bill of Privileges”?
You either need a civic lesson or you need to stop listening to Fox News.
Our country’s RIGHTS are guaranteed by the constitution, NOT by God!
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that THEY ARE ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR with certain unalienable RIGHTS”
Those Constitutional RIGHTS are from God. The Bill of Rights are not rules for people, they are rules for govt and a reminder to govt that we have God given rights that they can’t take away from us.
I’ve read the Bill of Rights and nowhere did I see that it said anything about sexual orientation or marriage. Therefore, if the govt imposes a tax or license fee on marriage it is not from the Bill of Rights but by privilege of the govt to ALLOW you to get married. ALLOWING you to do something is not a RIGHT, it’s a PRIVILEGE.
Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the difference between a RIGHT and a PRIVILEGE.
By your reasoning, the moment something becomes licensed or taxed, it ceases to be a right, and becomes a privilege.
Fortunately, THAT opinion has absolutely NO legal basis.
I don’t have to imagine a time when the church was in charge of everything. It is called the “dark ages”.
It’s not intolerant in itself to denounce intolerance — that’s a ridiculous assertion.
GAY-is not fine with me and I don’t think people should advertise their twisted behavior to the world. Wear that tee shirt in the deep South and see how that works for you.
You mean like, Key West, southernmost place in the US? ?? Been there, very tolerant and gay friendly. Your point is…
The deep South has some very twisted behaviors of its own.
Then maybe you ought to move down south where you can mingle with all the other bigots.
Then go foster your hate and bigotry somewhere else.
Gay? Fine by me too…
What is not fine by me is when people in the name of god foster a culture of intolerance
and use antiquated morals to dictate the freedom of other humans. This behavior is dumb
to me and I find it boring…but worse than that it often leads to violence.
Jesus was a liberal reformer who put love over law, and the conservative religious nuts had him brutally murdered for it. Today those same nuts would kill him all over again.
Okay you do know that this argument can be made because a man and women can get married, why not a man and two women?
Frankly thats is fine by me too. Why do you care what other people do in their bedroom?
Why should you have a say in how other people choose to live?
The article isn’t about marriage.
sometimes I think I’m wasting my time with the Bangor Daily Rag…all they want to write about is bath salts, gays and teacher/student sex….yawnnnnn..got more important things to do, my toe nails need clipping….
Tolerate but don’t “Promote” The idea is not to be sending the wrong message’s. To much sways opinion and a why not experience as it seems to be safe and childless. I beleive we need to leave it alone and allow nature to take its course without pushing our acceptance or not. These shirts should not be allowed unless the other side of the issues can wear and push theirs onto the public. Where is logic and common sense?
What’s the other side? “Gay? Not fine by me, you’re going to hell”? The message is simply a positive one and the alternative you’re suggesting isn’t. The message here is designed to make some students who feel marginalized feel better. To air the “other side” would be, by design, to push those same students further down.
How about “Straight – fine by me”, should that be permitted?
obviously. No one is contending that it is not. Why don’t you order up 100 of them and go to Brunswick and sell them?
Either you haven’t read all the comments or you have poor reading comprehension.
Try it again. But this time go through all the comments until you find hey1’s comment (2 hours ago as I write this) and fwteagles’s reply to it (1 hour ago).
Read them carefully. They’re not hard to understand.
I’m talking about how the shirts would be different. You read them carefully.
I did, and I’m willing to let the postings speak for themselves. Don’t go back and edit yours.
Why would I? I wasn’t advocating censorship. Again, I was pointing out how wildly different the shirts would be.
I didn’t insult you bandbox. Its too bad you had to turn around and insult me. But to the point at hand: hey1’s comment is pure conjecture. No one at Brunswick printed out a ‘straight fine by me’ shirt and started selling them. So his/her presumptious ‘nope’ is nothing but a guess.
FWTeagle’s comments center around questioning the intent of a shirt. He implies that he would disagree with the printing, selling, and wearing of the shirts, but he does not say that one should not be allowed to go thorugh that process. FWTeagle even clearly states that he is not of the opinion that schools should be censoring / supporting shirts based on thei rmessage in direct reply to one of your questions.
So as you can see I have read the comments carefully and my point stands. I’m sorry, this must be embarassing for you.
You can keep beating this dead horse, but nothing you say here about hey1’s comment as pure conjecture, Brunswick printed T-shirts, fwteagle’s intent, etc. is going to change the import of fwteagle’s 10:34AM reply to hey1’s 9:53AM question. fwteagle clearly takes the position that the purpose of a”Straight? fine by me” T-shirt would be inflammatory. The logical extension of fwteagle’s position is that the straight shirt, which he argues is inflammatory, should not be allowed on the classroom wall, while the gay shirt, which he argues is non inflammatory, should be allowed on the classroom wall.
As for insults, all I can say is that if you’re thin skinned, you shouldn’t insult others because they might reply in kind. You’re the one who started it in your 11:55 AM reply to me, i.e., “Why don’t you order up 100 of them and go to Brunswick and sell them?” It’s not my style to lead with insults, but I will defend myself. But as I’ve said in my most recent posting (above – for some reason, and I don’t know why, this posting didn’t appear when I made it, so I did another one), if you can honestly say that you didn’t mean to insult me, then I apologize. I am embarrassed for losing my temper, and doubly embarrassed if I misinterpreted your remark about selling 100 T-shirts.
You’re right about one thing, and it is kind of embarrassing, because I lost my temper and turned around and insulted you. Sometimes I react quickly and harshly when I’m insulted, and you insulted me when you said “Why don’t you order up 100 of them [T-shirts] and go to Brunswick and sell them?” You may not have intended it as an insult, but it came across as a flippant and insulting response to a reasonable question. If you can honestly say that you didn’t mean it that way, then I apologize.
As for the rest of it, I stand by my earlier comments and let the postings speak for themselves.
Just wondering, How do gay’s procreate?
The Basic fundamentals of Mankind. God Bless Man, for he is my brother not my lover.
From the back woods of Maine, you know God’s Country where a Call to God is Local, no charges!!!
Now this ought to wind ’em up!!!!
“I Love My Country, it is the Government I don’t Trust”
Keep in Touch with more then yourselves, http://www.lisbonreporter.com
Well, i married a man, had my beautiful children, then he couldnt live with me anymore because I couldnt give him what he needed emotionally. He told me I was gay, which I already knew. So here I am with beautiful educated children and a life partner.
Would a “Straight-fine by me ” T-shirt be allowed on the wall. Hmmm – doubt it!
Kids got suspended in the U.S. for wearing an American flag on their T-shirt on a Mexican Holiday. If you have a belief then fine, but it should not be hung on a wall.
But the purpose of this shirt isn’t to inflame — while the shirt you’re proposing probably would be. Think about the intent of the two.
Here’s a hypothetical for you.
There are two T-shirts. One says “Gay? fine by me”; the other “Straight? fine by me”.
How does one determine the intent of the T-shirts?
What is the need for a straight shirt though? Are the straight kids actively being told that being straight is bad? Are they actively being bullied specfically for being straight?
I’ll start out by answering your second and third questions, which I treat as hypotheticals, as follows: no and no.
I don’t know the purpose of your first question, so it’s hard for me to answer except with another hypothetical. So here’s my answer: Assume there’s no “need” for a straight T-shirt other than that some students would like to wear it.
Are you taking the position that whether a T-shirt can be promoted and sold in a school depends on the need for the message displayed on the T-shirt?
It goes back to my initial point about the intent of the shirts. Why are you looking at this as a bad thing? Some kids are getting bullied specifically for these reasons, so someone took an intiative to try and stop that. Why is that bad? Why do you feel it needs to be combated with a “straight, fine by me” counterpart t-shirt?
I didn’t say that anything about the T-shirts being a bad thing. I posed a hypothetical question asking how one determines the intent of a T-shirt, and instead of answering the question, you responded with your own questions raising the issue of “need” for a straight shirt.
So I ask you again – and please answer the question: Are you taking the position that whether a T-shirt can be promoted and sold in a school depends on the need for the message displayed on the T-shirt? Please answer yes or no, and then, if you want, explain your answer.
I’m not trying to be argumentative or make you look bad. I’m just trying to understand your reasoning.
No, I didn’t. That was my answer. I can’t explain my position without pointing out those things. You proposed a hypothetical question — in order to respond and point out how the two shirts would be very different, I raised my own questions to provoke thought and establish my point.
No one is talking about mandating or regulating t-shirts. Again, I’m pointing out the stark differences between a “gay, fine by me” and “straight, fine by me” tshirts. That’s not the same thing as requiring a positive intent or requiring a necessity.
The reason why the shirt exists is because there is a need for it — gay kids are subjected to bullying. The reason a “straight, fine by me” t-shirt would exist would solely be a reaction to the initial t-shirt. There is a difference between a positive intent and a combative one and that is why the reaction to the two shirts would be wildly different — that’s obvious.
Thank you for explaining your position. I disagree with you about the “Straight – fine by me” T-shirt intent, but that’s ok. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
The point that I’m trying to make has more to do with First Amendment freedom of expression than with homosexuals v. heterosexuals. If public school authorities get into the business of permitting or censoring T-shirt messages based on their subjective interpretation – what they “imply” – from the message, we’re in deep trouble. Even more so if they censor a message because they disagree or think there’s no “need” for it. And that would obviously apply to the hypothetical “straight” T-shirt.
Actually, if the gay kids would wear the “Straight? Fine with me.” shirt I think it would say a lot. It shows inclusiveness and also that being straight or gay is on equal ground.
Both would be sexual preference. Why would intent of straight shirt be to inflame and a gay one not? Your statement proves as to why intent of a straight shirt would be considered hostile and the gay one would not. Special treatment once again!
It’s not special to be treated with dignity and respect. Quit trying to make yourself a victim in this — it’s pathetic.
Are straight kids bullied for being straight? Do straight kids ever get beat up specifically because they’re straight? Think about it.
Agreed hey1 …
Whhaaat???? One t-shirt saying “Gay-fine by me” is NOT inflammatory, but one that says “Straight-fine by me” is??? Or were you referring to the American Flag t-shirt? Either way … I have a problem with your statement. Intent? The latter was an American school and either a Mexican holiday or Mexican appreciation day. I can do either (party or appreciate) while supporting MY country and wearing a t-shirt with American Flag. Good lord …
I was referring to the gay/straight t-shirt. And yes, the intents are very different. The gay shirt exists because gay students aren’t always treated as though they are “fine,” they can be subjected to bullying specifically because they’re gay. Are straight studetns ever bullied specifically because they’re gay? The one reason a “straight, fine by me” t-shirt would exist would be as a response to the “gay, fine by me shirt” and so the intent is clearly very different.
to answer your question fwteagles … YES THEY ARE. Believe it or not, life does not revolve around sexual preference … which is often kept to ones self. If you flaunt it, be prepared to defend it (and not necessarily in the “physical” sense. You can be taunted, especially in HS for dressing differently, talking differently, acting differently, etc. And as I said … try wearing a Straight-Fine by me t-shirt in California! Yeah, I know … we don’t live in California, but it may not be long! What about a t-shirt that says “I support YOUR right to have an alternate point of view and lifestyle without infringing on mine” ?
Can you show me some examples in a comparable proportion of straight kids being bullied for being straight as gays kids for being gay?
Seems to me a straight kid can go to prom without being bullied or hold hands in the hall without being bullied — would that constitute flaunting? How are gay kids flaunting it in ways that straight kids aren’t?
Only gay bullying matters right? I mean it seems “agenda” like when bullying as a whole should be done. Not just one section of those who get bullied. It’s not just gay kids that get bullied. Here….
“No single factor puts a child at risk of being bullied or bulling
others. Bullying can happen anywhere—cities, suburbs, or rural towns.
Depending on the environment, some groups—such as lesbian, gay,
bisexual, or transgendered (LGBT) youth, youth with disabilities, and
socially isolated youth—may be at an increased risk of being bullied. ”
….Do note, socially isolated youth, disabilities etc may also be at increased risk. But you’re not sticking up for them are you?
http://www.stopbullying.gov/at-risk/index.html
“Children with disabilities—such as physical, developmental,
intellectual, emotional, and sensory disabilities—are at an increased
risk of being bullied. Any number of factors— physical vulnerability,
social skill challenges, or intolerant environments—may increase the
risk. Research suggests that some children with disabilities may bully
others as well.”
http://www.stopbullying.gov/at-risk/groups/special-needs/index.html
Again, sure seems gay agenda like when bullying as a whole was not the goal. EPIC FAIL for this teacher.
LOL, the fact that you had to put words in both mine and the teacher’s mouths proves you don’t have a point at all. No one said that only gay kids are bullied. What was said that gay kids are some of those that are bullied. Huge difference.
The only epic fail is your non-logic. Do you scream at those who support breast cancer causes, yelling that breast cancer isn’t the only cancer?
I think Jill was implying the same sentiment that I did. If kids are being bullied in Brunswick for being gay and children are intolerant about sexual preference then they are probably intolerant about everything else listed and more. Are only the gay children being singled out in brunswick? I doubt it is that big of a problem @ all but, where we have a gay marriage referendum approaching BDN is seeking anything that may relate too it. If “gay” wasnt in the news then I doubt this article would have run.
True enough, but putting a face on a particular kind of bullying certainly is fair. All bullying should stop but saying that often is too general and some kids might not considering bullying a gay kid as a problem. “After all, he’s GAY!” Those same kids might never bully a kid in a wheelchair, for example.
The cancer example is a good one. There are T-shirts for breast cancer, testicular cancer, colon cancer, and so on. There even is “Breast Cancer Awareness Month.” No one is hopping up and down that the T-shirt should be all-inclusive of all cancers.
I see the gay T-shirt as a good example.
You see, being gay is not something that is necessarily obvious. If you are black, white, or any other color, it’s pretty obvious. There has been such social stigma, mostly based on antiquated religious dogma, that vilifies gays. Plus, it takes time for people to realize they are gay and it usually is long after they have established a certain outward persona. All of this is subject to a type of bullying that is particularly insidious. I think it is fair to have a separate identification of this kind of bullying, and I am sure there are other types equally deserving of being specifically identified.
Yes, I would have liked to have attended my prom in 1973 with my boyfriend. I am sure that would have gone over very well. Oddly, I did not see any of the straight couples being taunted.
Actually, I think if a gay kid wore a “Straight? Fine by me.” T-shirt this would imply both are on the same level. Implying, if I don’t mind that you are straight, you should not mind that I am gay.
As part of the educational process in civics class it would be interesting to see the reaction if a teacher hung a shirt that read “Straight? fine By me.”
Because it is already considered fine. How many students do you think are being bullied for being straight? How many get beat up specifically for being straight?
HOLD IT! ” … “This has zero political agenda behind it,” said Barnes, who is a 2007
Brunswick High School graduate. “It’s more about school bullying and
learning to care about other people who are different from you.”
Bulltinkle! If this was ONLY about bullying and acceptance, then why didn’t the message include all the other points of view that get bullied and harrassed … such as conservative, christian, gay, liberal, etc., etc. Pepper the shirt with all different points of view and then center in bold “FINE BY ME.” Now THAT would truly promote tolerance. In this case, I think if falls short. Now get back to teaching …
I love all this posturing about gay rights, etc. How about being concerned that these kids are graduating from High School unable to read or construct a simple sentence. It seems that the teachers have no time to teach Johnny to read and write, but they have plenty of time for social engineering projects like this.
Are you aware that people can be concerned with more than one thing at once? Some people can even walk and chew gum at the same time.
What are you doing to help?
School is as much about social education as it is about anything else.
So you would abdicate your authority and obligation as a parent, and leave the teaching of social values to the school?
No, of course not, but from what I have seen, the parents are not doing a very good job at teaching social understanding and tolerance of others. Perhaps if they did, there would not be so much bullying and prejudice against minorities.
So then, by your answer, the t-shirt has no place in our schools. Perhaps it’s true that many parents are not doing such a good job of teaching tolerance, but abdicating your individual rights or parental rights to any governmental department is a very dangerous proposition. Once started down that road, it is very difficult to turn back and, as with all things, one road leads to another. Where do you draw the line. I say, stay out of my bedroom, stay out of my home, stay away from my children with any kind of indoctrination, no matter how worthy you may deem it to be. How about teachers providing birth control to students. Is that OK, I mean, a lot of parents don’t properly instruct their children about sex. Should the teachers then take matters into their own hands? How about abortion clinics in the schools, or at least making your daughter aware of how to get an abortion. Should they do that. Listen, I’m all for tolerance and no bullying, but I’m a conservative with strong libertarian leanings. I want government out of our lives. And as far as I’m concerned, you should want the same thing.
No, I have to disagree. I think the T-shirt should be there and birth control should be taught in schools (as parents won’t, don’t, or can’t teach it and it is vital information). As far as abortion clinics go, if there was some sex education in schools, perhaps an abortion clinic wouldn’t be needed. In my days, we had a very liberal education where sex-ed was taught. Our school had far less teen pregnancies per capita than did the surrounding rural schools that had no sex education. Again, parents should do this but they do not and society, and their kids, pay the price.
The difference I see between conservative and liberal is that from my true Republican background (I’m now called a RINO because I don’t thump a bible), is the difference between learning as much as I can about everything, good and bad, versus conservative which implies the pop-riveting of blinders to the skull at birth so the kids are “sheltered” from reality, the world, and anything that does not comply with the bible.
My belief is that kids should be trusted, given the benefit of the doubt, and allowed to see all sides or all things, and make their own judgements and valuations. This is the true “liberal arts” education. I see no advantage to spoon-feeding kids some doctrine that excludes so much of the world. The foolishness we see in today’s GOP is embarrassing. Can you imagine that candidates are laughed at and scorned because they can speak a second language? That going to college is being a snob? That many of the candidates have demonstrated ignorance of geography, government, and the world? I find it so coincidental that the ultra-religious ones usually have the least understanding of the rest of the world. I call this a dumbing-down of America and it is the last thing we need in our society is more stupid people. We have far too many of them right now.
We need educated, aware, brilliant people, who know more about the world than “I can see Russia from my back porch.” Why has “intellectual” become a bad word?
So, back to T-shirts – kids should be exposed to all sides of society and the sooner the better. We are way behind the education curve and dumbing-down our kids by sheltering them and feeding them a load of ignorance and bias based upon religious claptrap does this country no service. The kids with the best jobs and highest income tend to come from those with higher educational backgrounds. Just a fact.
No learning takes place in the schools anymore. Only indoctrination.
This is an ignorant statement. i am a teacher and I teach and my students learn.
are you an english teacher?
To borrow from Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he cannot spell.”
It seems endemic – the more wound around the axle they are about gay rights, the worse is their spelling.
Helping foster tolerance for people who are different is hardly indoctrination. Quit bellyaching about some non-existent “gay agenda.” Gays only want to be accepted and left alone, they don’t want to ruin your life.
What a truly disgusting and ignorant statement.
Religion in school = Bad, Gay rights in schools = Good??? Doesn’t most people’s opinions on Gay rights start with religious beliefs? If we are going to allow issues of gay rights in schools we need to allow religious issues in schools or neither of them at all. To me this is just another example of how hypocritical schools, states and the country are!!!!
It seems you would like to insert religious beliefs in schools and are deploying false equivalencies in order to justify it. My tolerance of gay people stems from an understanding that we all deserve to live our lives without unwarranted deprecation, not from the fact that I am not a god fearing bible thumper.
Nice twist on words. I said allow issues not insert religious belief. I did not say that people don’t deserve to live their lives without unwarranted deprecation. What I am referring to is allowing gay rights in schools while a kid in high school got suspended for tebowing. I’m not saying to teach religion or gay rights, i’m saying if we are going to allow one, we need to allow the other equally.
Nice choices in
guns! Hey you seem like a reasonable guy… Here’s what I don’t get. I love,
admire, respect and want to be around my Aunt… doesn’t mean that I want to sleep
with her! Same Sex…Love
yes, Admire yes, Attracted to their Wit, Personality etc. yes. Sleep with them
and defile yourself No!
BTW, I feel the same way about Hetro’s that sleep around, or
married people that are cheating on one another. They defile themselves when they do
this. Are you not simply turning yourself over to Lust?
When your child of 14, one who has never met a gay person in his life, who has been the happiest and most enjoyable and loving kid you could ever come to meet, who is raised in a very conservative and traditional family, full of sports and construction and nascar and republicans…has the courage to call you to his room and, while in sobbing tears, finally finds the strength to explain why he’s become distant and not his normal self due to depression from fear…that he believes he may be gay…will you look at him and tell him he is not, that it is a choice, and that he can be cured?
OR will you hug him and tell him you love him NO MATTER WHAT and that our family, a family who has never been exposed to any of this, will stand by his side come what may, and we will grow together to learn about his feelings and what he will go through. The only choice he has in any of this, the only choice any of us have, is how we REACT to it.
My son will always be my son, my pride and joy, the love of my life. My husband, the trucker, nascar lover, manly man – wept with his son while he hugged him and told him it doesn’t matter. He has no shame, only love.
The only fear we have from this day forward, is the fear of how people will treat our son, our caring, and smart, and funny, and incredibly loving son. I fear for him what he may encounter from children who have parents who do not teach their children to be kind to and accepting of all others. THINK of how you would feel if your child were to be brave enough to come out to you! I never in a million years would have thought about this story the way I do today. This teacher is not trying to promote any lifestyle other than a kind one. The fact our society still has this conversation in 2012 is the issue. What is wrong with teaching children to not only be tolerant of others (I hate that phrase) but to live in such a way that others differences become so commonplace that they do not even matter?
Wonderful message Wendy but here’s a suggestion, put it in paragraphs so people will hear it. I’m not trying to be the English teacher I just think your message is important and maybe will have an impact if it was more easily read.
oh cry me a river,
a bank robber is not born a bank robber, he becomes a bank robber when he/she commits the act,same as being gay, not born that way, God gives us a will to choose right and wrong, moral or immoral.
same as being gay, what a bunch of bull, we are born a little boy or little girl, yet todays courrpt immoral society (teachers and the like) pokes and prys this immorality into the little ones, shame shame shame,
Cry me a river. Wow.
I never really paid attention to the ignorance of some on this issue until I found myself smack in the middle of it. You are the type of person who I fear my child will come in contact with.
I can tell you this – I would prefer my son over someone like you anyday.
Shame on you for helping drive gay kids to suicide.
Shame on you for equating being gay to robbing a bank.
Shame on you for corrupting children and fostering hate.
I don’t know if one is born a homosexual, becomes one, or both, but I do know you’re being awfully harsh to WendyyA. She’s just a parent talking about her child.
Thank you
Except that being gay has been scientifically proven to not be a choice. People are born gay. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
Look at it this way: could you suddenly choose to be gay? Wouldn’t work, right? You’re not attracted to members of your gender. You were born that way. It’s the same way for people who are gay, they’re attracted to members of their gender and not to the opposite. That’s just how they’re wired, and no amount of religion, drugs, or therapy could possibly change that.
Where can this ” scientific proof ” be found for review?
How about this…..
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=155
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa
There are many more sites that show the evidence but you are not going to believe them but just because you don’t believe them does not make them wrong.
on edit…. it took me about 30 seconds to find these. If I wanted to spend more time I could give you hundreds of peer-reviewed articles stating the latest facts on the benetic basis of homosexuality.
We’re not talking ” evidence ” …He said ” PROOF “. I’ve taken the time…NO PROOF to be found
ans “That’s” the “TRUTH”. Like it or not.
So what would you consider “Proof”?
I linked you to scientific evidence of the genetic link to homosexuality but you elect to not agree with their conclusions. You show me “Proof” that homosexuality is purely a life-style choice with no genetic element to it. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
I want what Kevin said existed… PROOF. Until there is PROOF…common sense would tell you it is a choice.
Common sense says no such thing. Why would someone choose to do something that is going to alienate them from their family and friends and cause strangers to attack him verbally and sometimes physically.
Still waiting for that link to the ” scientific proof “, have a feeling it will be a LONG wait…as we all know, there’s NO such thing!
your so called truth is lies from the devil, your same scientifically crowd claims we came from mokeys, and or crawled out of the ocean, more lies,
God created us from the dust of the ground, God created man and woman to be togehter to be one, read the true history of mankind, so as you may see the real light,,
When did you choose to be straight?
I was born a boy, and now I am a grown man, it is a natural state of life, and God created me that I find the woman I love very beautiful, and her I, the exact way God intended,
oh the devil creeps in and confuses the weak minds, so sad
If being gay is a choice why do gay teenagers commmit suicide at the rate they do?
I had a friend in HS who was popular, gifted athlete and a nice guy. He committed suicide not long after graduating HS because he could not come to terms with his sexual orientation. He was gay, it was not a choice and he killed himself because he could not deal with it.
Well said and I wish more people were like you and your husband.
Funny when I was in high school I do not remember any gay students. I know we had some gay teachers. Must have been gay students it was just not something talked about. Anyone that was different in any way was subject to be bullied . Weather it be how they look thier personality, religious belief,poor ect. Maybe it was just me not as outwardly social . Guess with the internet and rumor mills that go around not things have changed. We were a bit more cival society back then than we are now I think. Someone got bullied and we had a group of people that would come to thier defense. Know one has the right to bully or abuse anyone. Has nothing to do with being gay. I hate to say it just the charie howard incident was still fresh in are minds . Maybe we need to be reminded about it again. Showing any kind of hate toward gay people was totally unexceptable after that happened. Not all bad became of it. Deep down I know these boys hurt about what they did. I know for a fact that those men now are very outspoken about hate. We can not change the past sometimes we need reminders. It would do so much more to further the cause.
I know it is difficult for the religious zealots to keep their bible thumping to a dull roar… but If you remove them and their ideals from this discussion I think we are left with a reasonable discourse on what is and isn’t appropriate for educators. I know that Barnes says there is no political motivation for the shirt but I feel its safe to assume she is a supporter of gay marriage and gay rights (which I am as well). However as adults we must play by certain rules some things need to be left out of public schools and education.
What if that shirt read “CCW permit holder… fine by me”. “NRA member fine by me”? those with left wing perspectives would consider this avocation of gun ownership and violence where right wing view points would see it as support of the 2nd amendment and perfectly fine.
What if it read abortion fine by me. or something more PC. Womens right to choose fine by me… again there are very polarized view points on the subject.
how about “death penalty fine by me: kill em all let god sort them out”?
Children today have enough distraction in their lives and classrooms. I am all for educating children on social issues. However due to the fallibility of people I don’t think it is rational to believe that one person can present an unbiased objective view point on social issues. Be it parents, teachers, news anchors, etc.
No matter what the social issue is there will always be difference of opinion and there will always be parents that arent happy how the school is teaching their children about the world. I think it is the parents right and responsibility to teach their offspring as they see fit. Thus remaining neutral in the classroom and focusing on academic studies of mathematics, science, language, geography/WORLD history (though history can often be presented subjectively). I mean honestly we should be far more concerned that most kids today in our education system can’t compete with those of our asian economic counterparts.
I understand the deductive logic. Bullying is a result of ignorance and nonacceptance. Therefore if we fight and eliminate ignorance and nonacceptance then we will end bullying. However, there are many studies that show bullying either physical or emotional is correlated with low self esteem, ones self worth, general intelligence, emotional intelligence, home life and a plethora of other factors. So you can have all the tee-shirts you want about acceptance of whatever but bullying and youth interpersonal conflict is so much more than that. Though I appreciate the step in the right direction by Mrs. Barnes toward ending bullying I do not applaud her. I feel she trivializes it by supporting one group in this fashion. Supporting one group be it jocks, smart kids, musicians, stoners, slow kids, etc… will result in one or multiple of the other groups to feel ostracized, neglected, or put upon. In this case her support of the LGBTQ @ this school is going to upset the religious students and feel their opinion and view points are being demonized thus depending on their other risk factors they possibly will lash out and bully students.
Just some food for thought.
Interesting and good thoughts for the most part.
Gays procreate the same way you do. This must be a shocker for you, I know!
Would it make a difference to everyone if it would of been a student that wore this t-shirt to school? I know how school is and how mean other students can be if u arent like them. Even if u dont have Name Brand clothes. I am glad to hear that the students that fall into gay/lesbian have people they can go to if they need to talk. Their are so many people that are against gay/lesbian rights that its affecting what our children think. I have friends that are gay and lesbian and i love them just like i would love any friend that isnt. They are people like everyone else, they bleed like we do, their heart beats like ours, and most of all they have the same feelings we do. So the next time u want to say anything negative against the Gay and lesbians think how u would feel if someone was trying to take rights away from you or picking on you because u were different. I personally like what this teacher did at this school.
Your argument in the first half of your post is a perfect example of the ‘slippery slope’ fallacy. Where you begin with a benign situation and say ‘if this what next?’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
The teacher’s heart is incertainly in the right place-THE RIGHT PLACE FOR HER HEART IS AT HER HOME-not her classroom.
Wow, accusing a teacher of coming-on to her students just because she’s being supportive of the gay students ?
Really ? This just shows how sick and obsessed with sex the people who hate gay people are.
What dirty minds you have. Seek help.
This has nothing to do with being gay or not. it has to do with using our kids to start a new base for gay rights. the school system is not the proper place.
Like I said, seek help, you wrote what you wrote. Own it.
your use of the terms “combative” and “inflammatory” are over the top. When someone disagrees with a position or has an opposite point of view, suddenly it becomes “combative” and “inflammatory” … and oh yes, let’s not forget “racist.” It is a different point of view … it doesn’t mean I am prepared to go out and beat up or incite riots because you want to support gay rights. Go for the gold.
You’re going on weird tangents. Kind of clear you have your own issues to work on when it comes to people who are different from you.
OMG fwteagles … please. This will be my last comment because it’s pointless to offer a counterpoint. When someone offers another perspective, you’re ready to accuse them; REF: “Kind of clear you have your own issues to work on when it comes to people who are different from you.”
I do not have problems with people who are different than I am. I am tolerant of differences. You just did what I said … you became inflammatory and personal. If my throwing in the example of “racist” is what threw you off … sorry. I was referring to the mindset which tends to throw those of us that have and offer different opinions into a category to be dismissed because we must “hate” … or on the national level, if you disagree with policies of the current administration, you must be a “racist.” If I disagree with the method that a teacher chose to support “gay rights” or even as she claimed, support the right to be different, I am combative, inflammatory, and now have issues with people that are different than me.
Sorry that we can’t have a meaningful dialogue fwteagles … maybe another time. And now, you can have the last word.
Don’t be a hypocrite. You initiated the accusations.
This is 2012 and accordingly, I had thought our intelligence had improved
as it concerns our surrounding and our fellow man or
lady as the case may be. To promote any life style breeds hatred as the
other side feels that their side has been discriminated against
And, that is true. So as I said, Tolerate but do not promote and allow
nature to take its course.
I thought we had moved on, remember the
Black panthers and their adversity group, The KKK. We need to get past this
now and most do but there are always the trouble makers
wanting to incite the masses with Slogans, sayings, advertisements and
walking billboards such as t-shirts. Just use your brains and move
away from falling prey to this kind of hatred breeding process. I’m sure
the t-shirt folks love to have such a willing and naive, clientele.
I actually like the point that you’re making. If everyone just left everyone else alone and let them live their lives and give them the freedom to live their lives however they choose, the world would be a happier place.
Well, have to say that BDN got the headline right … sure did spark “wider” conversation !!!
quick way to make an easy buck!
What happens to the money from the sale of those T-shirts? Is it personal gain for the vendor or will it be used for a political donation?
She said the profits will be for the benefit of the school’s Gay-Straight Alliance.
Hey – I’m having gender identification issues today… which bathroom should I use?
People don’t wake up with gender identification issues. Quit making a joke out of a serious subject.
School is as much about social education as it is about the three R’s. Bullying is a major problem in schools and is a cause of many suicides and school shootings. Teaching tolerance and understanding should be mandatory every single year of school.
I agree bullying is a major problem but its all bullying not just students being bullied for being gay. How about overweight children, children from impoverished homes, or children with some sort of handicap? The only reason this article ran in the BDN is because it has relevance to a current political issue. Regardless of what Mrs. Barnes intention was. I mean good for her for going above and beyond but she should start hanging some more sloganized t-shirts around her room.
You go McKell Barnes…….Your the type of person I would love to get to know……….your an awesome woman
So why is a “math teacher” using her classroom to teach her young impressionable captives a PC agenda?
I too am just fine with anyone being gay, couldn’t care less, but the classroom, particularly a math classroom, should be used to teach math, reading, writing and the many other skills children need and too often don’t get from public education.
Values are for the parents, churches and community to teach; not a publically paid educator with her own version of them.
I don’t care how gay and happy people are but that homosexual sex is perverted. Was this a sex education class or something?
Nothing about sex on the t-shirt
Some people are just obsessed with sex, it’s really kind of sick, every opportunity to make sex an issue, they jump at it.
That seems far more perverted to me than the things they seem so upset about.
How about a T-shirt that reads: God is Good; God Bless America; An American Flag Shirt, etc. You get the idea. Anything of a conservative nature would most assuredly be frowned upon! I am so glad my child is grown. If I could give parents any advice it would be pull your children out of public schools & get them into any Christian or Catholic school or home school them. They are not being taught – they are being indoctrinated by the liberal progressive left.
i am cool with anyone who is gay and all of that but why where shirts that say it …i dont wear shirts that say hey look at me i am strait!! like i said i fine fine with gay marriage and eveything else but why bring that type of attention to yourself cause we live in this backword state its asking for some hick to cause trouble!! yes i said hick
To call this indoctrination is a misinterpretation of a good educator’s effort to create an inclusive environment at school. Her initial action promoted a tolerant environment at school and was not intended to change students’ beliefs about gay marriage or promote any specific political agenda. I think she would agree that you can hold deep-seated personal beliefs and still be a tolerant person.
I read this story and I see an educator who wants to teach in a setting where all students feel equally welcome and recognized. Whether straight, gay, Christian, Muslim, black, white, or whatever other identity one has, everyone has a right to an educational environment that is free of bigotry. Her action did nothing to disparage other credos of any kind. If anything, it was an attempt to demonstrate that human differences are acceptable and normal in this world, and that every human being deserves to have self-respect and dignity.
“This has zero political agenda behind it,” said Barnes, who is a 2007 Brunswick High School graduate. “It’s more about school bullying and learning to care about other people who are different from you. This has nothing to do with the referendum.”
This is completely about the referendum and to say it is not is a joke. This T-shirt has no place in the Brunswick High School or any other high school. It is quite clear that Barnes is pushing her own personal agenda. The fact that Barnes is now drawing in students to help promote her agenda is even more deplorable. Barnes should be terminated from her teaching position immediately and Principal Donna Borowick should be severely reprimanded.
“This teacher’s actions support school safety, freedom of speech and respect for all students,” said Bellows. “The teacher’s expression in this case reflects a spirit of tolerance for gay students without doing any harm to anyone else. The first amendment of the constitution protects the right of students and teachers to wear this T-shirt and it protects the right of opponents such as Mr. Emrich to disagree.”
So it’s a first amendment right to wear a t-shirt in school that promotes homosexuality but it’s a violation of first amendment rights to wear a t-shirt that bears the American flag to school on cinco de mayo day. What if next week a student wants to wear a t-shirt that says “white power? fine by me”. Will Principal Borowick claim that is protected free speech too. I think NOT!
People don’t get killed for being overweight, short, or ugly. People don’t get kicked out of their homes because they have to tell their parents that they’re tall. Those people don’t have to worry about who will accept them for who they are, and those who will reject them based only on their sexual orientation. Most of all there are no laws denying basic human rights to people who are fat, tall etc. People like Mr. Emrich are afraid that these discussions will introduce homosexuality to teens. Or, worse, indoctrinate them into the “gay lifestyle”. I have news for those who believe that we teach it: they are already gay! And I can guarantee you that they know what homosexuality is long before they walk into a high school math class. This movement is about making students feel safe and accepted- to teach love instead of hate. But some people can’t look past their moral revulsion and see what’s really there: a sad, lonely, and scared teenager.
How should a teacher remain neutral on this subject, please enlighten me. Is the statement “gay? fine by me.” not the most neutral thing you could say about the matter? What about gay marriage is so appalling? This country promotes Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness; and by saying that, all citizens should have the right to them. Why can’t gays get married? Is it because says so in the Bible, or because its “unnatural”, or because you don’t agree with it? I simply don’t get it. I am not gay but I can tell you that there is nothing different between homo and heterosexuals, other than sexual preference. I have gay family members, I have gay friends, my friends have gay family members and gay friends. These teachers are doing a great thing here, they are promoting the message that it’s ok to be gay and that homophobic slurs and bullying are not alright. This is a lot bigger than any of your biases towards “the gays.”
I remember back in 2009 when gay marriage was on the ballot. In debates it was said that gay marriage and the like wouldn’t find it’s way into classrooms….. HELLO! *see article above point*
I guess it’s not here either? ” Gay-friendly classroom sign controversial Teacher ordered to alter plaque”
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/gay-friendly-classroom-sign-controversial-138309914.html
Or what about this one? This teacher talked on the FACEBOOK… “”Why parade your unnatural immoral behaviors before the rest of us?” a
woman who identified herself as Viki Knox wrote on Facebook. “I DO NOT
HAVE TO TOLERATE ANYTHING OTHERS WISH TO DO. I DO HAVE TO LOVE AND SPEAK
AND DO WHAT’S RIGHT!”
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/nj_teachers_facebook_comments.html
That teacher if she had been promoting gay rights would be hailed as some “hero” right? Apparently not being for gay marriage or for gay issues in schools somehow makes you “hateful and bigoted” I’m for people being in whatever relationship they see fit per consenting adults. The gay alliance clubs and stuff can promote themselves at the school and do activities like the chess or swim club, teachers can help.
Teachers using their classroom as a forum to promote gay rights issues and when gay marriage is forced on the ballot in 2012 even though it was struck down the first time REAKS of pushing an agenda.
Or this? “California governor signs bill requiring schools to teach gay history”http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-14/us/california.lgbt.education_1_california-governor-signs-bill-gay-history-state-textbooks?_s=PM:US
I remember people “arguing” that legalizing gay marriage wouldn’t bring ANY of this to schools even in the slightest! Hmm!
“How to teach gay issues in 1st grade?”
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/16/local/la-me-gay-schools-20111016
How about this Teacher?
MOUNT DORA, Fla. — He was Teacher of the Year last year, but just
days before the new school year begins at Mount Dora High School in
Mount Dora, Fla., Jerry Buell has been removed from teaching duties.
His offense?
He said he opposed gay marriage on his private Facebook page.
And somebody reported him
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700172938/Teacher-suspended-for-views-on-gay-marriage.html
….. Parents don’t need teacher to share personal views and push their political messages on kids in school.We don’t have heterosexual classes other than basic sex ed. It’s an agenda when you focus on ONE aspect of bullying and NOT bullying as a whole. YOU BET THE TEACHER WAS PUSHING AN AGENDA.
SO MUCH for tolerance that isn’t pro-gay the way the gay movement wants. By the way, the BIGGEST bullies ARE gay rights activists, their unbelievable and are more hate-filled than the people they claim hate them.
Schools are there to TEACH our children, not push their personal activist views on the kids they teach.
I respect your opinion more when you use all caps.
We aren’t trying to force you change your beliefs; we just want you to treat the lgbt-community with respect.
Students have every right to wear “Straight? Fine by me” T-shirts. It’s a simple message of acceptance of all students in the classroom.
Please, please post a link to that situation. I can already tell that never happened.
Most people in these comments.
So is football, and they broadcast that on national television! Have you had a haircut recently? Or eaten shellfish? You have sinned! In fact, if you are wearing polyester, you are sinning RIGHT NOW!
Maybe you should try reading your bible, you’ve been doing a lot of sinning.Don’t use the bible to discriminate.
Homosexuality is not a disorder.
I hate to differ with you, you are not born with it, its a choice. I learned it in college and high school. this is nationwide now, lots of them outt here
When? In 1902? It is no choice. You are born with “it.” What college did you attend? Liberty Baptist? Nationwide? Oh, yes, always have been and always will be. But, it is much like the bigots – we now hear and see more of them because they have discovered the internet.
No you are not born being gay. Or Bi nothing its a choice Chuck. I know my brother who was married three times, thank you very much, is gay. You telling me was born bi, and as far as college i attended umo and umpi. Enjoy your day. You all eventually are gonna get rights, but the time will come when they decide too
Well, you are just flat-out wrong. No one chooses to be gay any more than they choose to be straight. As far as being married, I can name names of friends of mine who were married to women, had kids, and finally divorced and lived their true lives. Societal pressures from decades ago, especially if raised in a conservative, restrictive, religious background, caused many men (and women) to marry opposite-sex partners and basically “live a lie.” Some never come out and go to their grave with their family never knowing, but their friends all too aware.
There is a large group called “Gay Married Men’s Association” (GAMMA) with lots of members in this same boat. I have found most of the members to generally be older and/or from rural, conservative areas. We see a lot less of this today as people are much more aware of how many gay people there are out there. I recall when I was 10 years old in 1965 that I traveled to Boston to visit my family there. I saw two guys together who were gay (I just knew it) and then realized, “Aha! There ARE other people like me and I know I will travel to Boston when I get older.” Which, of course, I did. I did not have to go through what many went through. I was fortunate.
This is why it is so important for both straight and gay kids to be made aware of bullying and how destructive it can be. If one gay kid can see a T-shirt that let’s him know he is not alone in the world and keeps him from jumping off a bridge, then it all is worth it.
Oh, of course. Just look how America treats homosexuals. Why would anyone choose that? I’d like to be hated! Sign me up!
Bullshit you can choose to be gay.
Jeremy – the level of ignorance in the crowd is just stunning. Sometimes, you wonder if they are baiting you. It does not seem possible that people could be so out-of-the-loop with known facts backed by evidenced-base science. It probably is pointless to try to discuss anything with them. This is the same crowd that thinks Obama’s birth certificate is a fake and that he is a Muslim. Next on the news – he’s actually Elvis’s space alien baby. At some point, you just say, “Nuts, just plain nuts,” and move on.
I have nothing against gay couples, i will vote for it so we can just get this behind us and over with but Bangor High school had a poster hanging in hallway, posted by a student got removed. In all my opinions i think this tshirt should be removed and not talked about in schools, kids do not need to learn it yet
There is nothing wrong with a shirt with 10 commandments on it. Any student can wear it, any teacher can hang it up. They have the right to do so and I have no problem with it. It just wouldn’t be very popular with the students.
That was incredibly offensive.
I am not taking any rights from you that you already have.
It is obvious as a result of many of these comments bullying remains a major problem. I salute Brunswick High School for taking a stand for accepting ALL students for who they are. Brunswick High is a top notch school and provides excellent education to prepare their students for the future. KUDOS to Brunswick High and all involved in being a leader in education and doing what they can and to make their students feel comfortable with who they are. Bullying is not acceptable – PERIOD! It is quite ironic that when we hear stories from the news media about a student being bullied the first question is “what did the school do?’, BHS has taken a proactive stand and should be commended for their efforts.
School uniforms would cure all those problems; I guess you would say that is intolerant right across the board in treating everyone equal.
Just wearing a uniform never cured anyone of anything.