PATTEN, Maine — A group opposing environmentalist Roxanne Quimby’s proposed 70,000-acre national park found that 87 percent of Patten-area residents called in a December survey rejected Quimby’s idea, the group’s founder said Friday.
Former Maine Senate President Charles Pray said the survey of about 10 percent of the listed telephone numbers in the Patten area’s 528 exchange asked the question “Do you support the proposal for a national park in the Katahdin region?”
Another 2 percent answered affirmatively. Nine percent responded that they did not know or hadn’t taken a position on the issue. Volunteers working for his group conducted the survey over several days, Pray said.
“The leading interest in the survey was to verify support for broadening the forest-based economy in the Greater Katahdin region,” Pray said in a statement. “Secondarily, to show the support, or opposition, to a proposed national park in the area that would be greatest affected by the national park proposal.”
Quimby, who owns about 59,000 acres in the area, seeks a National Park Service feasibility study that would determine the land’s worthiness for inclusion in the group of national parks and examine the economic and cultural impacts of a park upon the region.
Quimby did not respond to a request for comment on Friday.
Bruce Cox and George McLaughlin, co-chairmen of the National Park Citizens Committee — which supports a feasibility study — scoffed at the bias they perceived in Pray’s work.
“This is not so much a poll as much as it is a phone bank by opponents. If park supporters had decided to do a phone bank to other park supporters, we would have had more than 87 percent support for our position,” they said in a joint statement released through a spokeswoman Friday.
“This is a serious issue. We think a credible, independent study will show that a park would create more economic opportunity in the region without impacting traditional industry or traditional use,” the statement read.
In late November Pray formed the group TREES4Maine, short for the Trust for Responsible Economic & Environmental Stewardship for Maine. The group describes itself as advocating for a broader evaluation of Maine’s natural resources than that proposed by Quimby.
Pray tried to make the poll as scientific as possible, he said. He estimated that 46 or 47 people were surveyed out of about 447 voters listed in the telephone directory in the Patten, Shin Pond and Mount Chase areas.
Census information found Friday sets that area’s population at about 1,475 people, including about 1,200 Patten residents counted in a 2009 census.
The volunteers attempted a random sampling by calling every 46th or 47th number listed, said Pray, who noted he has a political science degree and 20 years of experience collecting and disseminating polling information as a member of the state Senate.
“I think it was done scientifically,” Pray said of the poll. “I did polling for 20 years in the political process. This is a poll of the people who would face the greatest impact from a national park. I am comfortable with it, and my interest is in finding out the interest here in a national park.”
Pray’s is the second poll on the park issue. A poll conducted in October by an independent, professional firm in Portland, Critical Insights, found that 60 percent of the 600 residents polled statewide favored a feasibility study of Quimby’s proposal.
On its website, criticalinsights.com, Critical Insights describes itself as an independent, nonpartisan public opinion polling and market research firm.
In its poll, Critical Insights interviewed 600 people selected randomly across the state from Oct. 18 to Oct. 23 and found that six out of 10 residents supported a feasibility study. The U.S. Census Bureau listed 1.32 million residents in Maine in the 2010 census.
“Support is most likely to be observed among college educated, younger (18-34 years of age), residents of the Southern or Central regions and registered Democrats,” the company’s report states. “Opposition is most prominent among Northern or Coastal residents and registered Republicans.”
Pray, who has homes in Millinocket and Township 3 Range 12, said he believes that people in the Patten area have the greatest stake in the park debate.
An entrance or access road to Quimby’s land likely would be in that area, not East Millinocket, Medway or Millinocket, where the park debate has been centered so far, he said.
Pray is not, he said, opposed to tourism or national parks. He ran his family’s sporting camp for 37 years and his wife served on the governor’s tourism commission for decades.
“I understand the importance of tourism and those people looking for something to boost their businesses. I also think as a political scientist looking at the landscape, that manufacturing is what the country needs to get back on stable ground,” Pray said.
Wait, that cant be true, Quimby’s minion said that Maine just loves the idea…. NOT
The old girl needs to pack it in and try elsewhere-
She has done burned one too many bridges and camps here in Maine…!
I think that number is even higher in Millinocket
Doesn’t matter though, because the voters of the whole State and our Congressional reps are going to make this decision in the end. One day, there will be a beautiful new National Park in the Katahdin area and all of Maine will reap the economic and environmental benefits of it.
The public around the park have to support it. Plain and simple, it will never happen. They’ve been trying for over 20 years and are no closer today.
LOL – the ‘public around the park’ is every town and city on the I-95 corridor. You’re delusional if you think that Patten and Millinocket get to decide this issue. You’ll see.
You’re confused if you think it’s anybody but Patten and Millinocket/Medway. It’s not state approval it’s local approval – as in the words of the NPS chief himself quoted in the BDN;
Local support for a proposed new national park would also be
considered during any study, and plays a major part” in a study’s
findings and the recommendation issued to Congress by the Department of
the Interior.
Resolutions, such as offered by groups for and against a park, also would play a significant part of the findings, Jarvis said.
With the overwhelming numbers against, from all the local towns (Medway will happen soon) – a NP is never going to happen.
easy there, they will get your comments deleted
Thanks – I changed it and lowered my voice :)
comments get deleted when they break the terms of service as stated above. its completely banal to think comments are deleted because of bias.
really…?
yes, really
no, actually most that get deleted are anti-park comments-
What are the chances that anti-park comments (that were deleted) were not civil, didn’t attack or harass people and were on topic?
I’m guessing the comments were deleted for the reasons I just described. But you go ahead with your conspiracy theory. Frankly, I have met or read about few people intelligent enough to pull off a conspiracy. Further, since I have a background in newspaper websites, I will go out on a limb and say ‘they don’t have the staff for your conspiracy theory’.
careful, that limb you speak of is only supported by the collective number of quimby supporters
careful, that limb you speak of is only supported by the collective number of quimby supporters
Yes, really.
If you’re going to correct everyone else, get it right yourself.
Would you like to start a comment string that discusses the correlation between conspiracy theorists and vanity?
http://www.realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html
The fact is everyone except Quimby and her Liberal sympathizers oppose this park. Just about every business group opposes it, Sportsmen Groups, Gov. LePage, The Legislature, Collins, Snowe, Michaud, East Millinocket voted NO, Millinocket, Patten. The fact is everyone knows this park will be a huge financial loser. The park will kill jobs, it will destroy what is left of the area in the Millinocket area and Northern Maine. This park won’t draw flies their are better locations in Maine with better views at Acadia, Sebago parks. Their are better views at Moosehead Lake, Rangeley, Sugarloaf, OOB, Camden, Sebago Lake, Bar Harbor, Rockland. The facts are people don’t want their money blown on this not in these economic times. We can’t take care of the parks we have now and we are going to spend money on this boondoggle no thanks. Ms. Quimby is no resorting to getting tree growth tax breaks and other subsides to try to sway people’s minds. She lost when she went on her tirade about this state and its people several weeks ago. She needs to go back to the Black Hills and Smokey Mountain area of North Carolina where she belongs.
Every town and city on the I-95 corridor is not local. You’ll see.
Even Portland,,,, I think not
Senator Snowe, Senator Collins & Congressman Michaud have all said that “they will oppose this if the “people of the Katahdin region” dont want it.
You keep thinking that happy-happy joy-joy liberal chant,,,, and maybe someday you will also win the megabucks
Pingree may support it, but its Mikes backyard, and that BlueDog dont fetch for that old treehugger
Not yet – the majority of Mainer’s support the creation of a park when asked. He’s going with the majority when push comes to shove.
While I realize that this is not very scientific, of all the posters here on this thread, only 2 support the park. Me? I’m neutral.
I think your crystal ball is cracked. I have an old snow-globe you can use.
your right about “one” thing, he will go with the majority…
I wonder how you will react when the “majority” votes no
If Michaud does, I think that would be about the only time he bucks his liberal democrat bosses. He’ll run as a anti-abortion supporter, but how did he vote ? With Pelosi etal every time. The BDN never mentions that Mike didn’t vote like he campaigns . And then the BDN will then turn around and make a big deal and herald that Kevin Ray is Pro Choice again and again !
write a press release and send it in yourself. that’s how the media works.
if mike sides with the old girl, he is done in politics-
If nonsense was electricity, Bangorian, you’d be Bangor Hydro.
I can’t find any reference for the requirement of a statewide vote. All NPS rules and the statutes governing the addition of new units to the national park system stress ” local approval”. Did you see the projection on the pro-parker’s facebook page of the number of permanent jobs created by a park? Twenty-five jobs. That’s it. After the construction of roads and visitor’s center, there is 25 jobs. That’s a wicked good economic engine, according to you. Glad you’re not one of the locals who actually have a say in this. But, then again, if you were directly affected as the locals are, you would be better informed and unlikely to support this ridiculous agenda to create a national park in northern Maine.
Boy, thats a pretty brassy attitude. You liberals have been getting your way in an unfettered manner way too long in this state. No, we won’t be getting the park anytime soon. There are enough people watching now that know the truth about the motives involved here.
You liberals have had unfettered domination in state politics way too long.
Bet they all support Baldacci’s fast tracked wind mills.
folks in Patten and Millinocket should be more worried about the LePage administration’s welcoming of Canadian loggers in to Maine. time to call your reps boys and girls, next month the Legislature is considering a bill to make it easier to hire Canadian workers over American workers.
http://www.mpbn.net/News/MPBNNews/tabid/1159/ctl/ViewItem/mid/3762/ItemId/19792/Default.aspx
For your information Canadian loggers are already here and have been for a long time.
yes, i know that.
The southern Maine, Augusta South “surveys” are the only ones that will matter to these people (Quimby minions).
87% of Cape Elizabeth residents support it, so it MUST be a good idea.
Really 87% of Cape Elizabeth residents…..?
Love to see you prove it
I suspect ( or hope) Tom was joking….
Sarcasm is my forte. Surprised it didn’t get flagged yet.
87% of Fort Kent residents support a sewage disposal site in Cape Elizabeth….SO start spreading the &*%$
At least BDN didn’t post her picture in this article, Thanks BDN for listening.
Good job Patten !! After Medways revote Quimby will see that no one here wants the NP ! http://preservemainetraditions.com/sign-petition/
good job Patten? have you been to Patten lately? Half the town is out of business, buildings burned in the center of Main Street will never be replaced.
How can people say a park is bad for the economy when the forestry industry has left Patten in such a depressed state?
They know the park is going to make them wost off then they are now !! They still live there and have to deal with the park…
how is that possible? please explain.
Read all of the posts at http://preservemainetraditions.com/
and your question will be answered.
ah yes, reading.
perhaps there is something to my ‘spelling is a function of reading is a function of knowledge’ argument after all.
Isn’t wood at a high demand around the world? And been so for quite a while? Why would the forestry industry leave Patten? Isn’t wood a sustainable product?
good questions, frankc. if its such a great industry, why is the town so impoverished?
Have you taken a look at the NATION’S industries, economy, poverty? Have you read, researched and explored concepts, possibilities based on other States’ situations, or are you on a “single track” spell checking roll?
I think you confuse me for someone who is pro-park. I am not. I am here in this comment section weighing the arguments. Like most people, I give more weight to thoughtful discussions, and less weight to people who have an obvious lack of information.
“Like most people?” You are forgetting that your thread of “thoughtful discussions” on this topic are still available for us to read and reflect upon. “Obvious lack of information?” You might go back and answer my question on the comment you just responded to. I’m curious as to how anyone could make a judgment on what’s “lacking”, when one is still weighing the arguments. Furthermore, when one exudes the intelligence and thoughtful discussion such as you have displayed, I’m sure your search for factual information reaches further than these postings, on this page, by maybe 12-15 people.
Slow down brother. no I have not read the article yet, i will. i just woke up and am on my first cup o’ joe. but i will read them, thank you.
the ‘lack of info’ comment refers to a particular commenter with an obvious 5th grade reading level. whereas I will read your article, I have doubts that ‘ridgerunner’ can read, let alone digest, any white paper discussions.
What do I think about the park? Since you asked so nicely, let me tell you. I think Quimby should give the land to the Nature Conservancy and move on. I think the anti park people are fueled by fear and are so anti-federal in their ideology that they are cutting of their nose to spite their faces. I think the Katahdin region has not fully given eco tourism a chance and therefore do not see the opportunities. I think they the attacks on Quimby’s person are demeaning to those who spew them. I think Quimby did what most Mainers would love to do, but are so busy arguing about who is keeping them down that they fail to lift themselves up.
Park? who cares. No Park? thats fine too. But the private property rights/Roxanne is ugly arguments are weak and insulting to one’s intelligence.
duplication – server issue
you’d be a fool to under estimate my outdoor survivor skills and my knowledge of the backwoods.
and so far, ridgerunner has said nothing intelligent, with his most articulate come back of ‘get a life’. so, you go ahead and fantasize about his conversational skills.
have a nice day.
OK. Your animosity and judgment (with no basis) on “theridgerunner” puts a certain perspective on the rest of your comments. I don’t know him/her (or maybe I do?), but my first thought is RESPECT for his passion.
I happen to know several well read people who have a spelling issue. One that sticks in my mind is a well respected high school teacher of 18 years with an MA in education. He is uncomfortable writing on the chalk board because he can’t spell for beans!
My take on “theridgerunner”:
1. I’m guessing I wouldn’t do well matching wits with him on a controversial matter, face to face.
2. Let’s see, if I was stranded in an area around the North Woods, who would I call for assistance? “theridgerunner” or a scholar of English Grammar?
3. If I wanted to inquire about something (anything) to do with an area that I was visiting, would I seek out “theridgerunner” who may have always lived there, or would I choose to talk to someone who had just moved back to the area after a couple of decades?
4. Passion, sincerity and things from the heart, trump spelling and grammar issues (for me) every time, hands down.
disqus is on double my comment thingy this morning, i see..
People can say a park is bad for the economy because they have done their research in order to know.
87 per cent of about 50 people? Polls of such a small sub section are easily rigged by selecting who you call. Poll is meaningless, BDN wasting ink on same, tedious.
A lot more meaningful than that rigged BS in Medway,,, but that vote will come before the entire Medway voting public and then the full results will prove the depth of corruption Quimby’s minion will go to.
I live in Patten…family lives in Patten…..friends live in Patten. We all are against Quimbys plan…based on this “poll” its a 100% against! May be a small “sub section” but it is unanimous….Quimby, we don’t want you and we don’t want your park!
Same way with the polls favoring. I doubt many of those people know even some of what is going on. There are a lot more than 50 or 100 people in the area of Patten.
This concept would be true of 60% of 600 Maine people (Cynthia Dill’s pro-park poll. )
People from Southern Maine wanting to take a ride to the Katahdin area a couple of times of year? Sure, a park sounds great! I beg to differ with you on your assumption of the Patten people. The people of Patten do know what’s going on. They have lived, worked and played there for generations.
I should of been clearer on my comments. I meant to say those other surveys, like Dill’s do not know some of what has been going on behind the scenes with Restore and other groups. My appologies since some of my lineage comes from Patten, and my father graduated from S.H.S.
One reason I said “polls favoring”
@brucefl56:disqus . Sorry I misunderstood your first comment. I fully agree that many people are unaware of the history of Roxanne Quimby’s dealings, RESTORE, and the ramifications of Federally owned land. It is my belief that everyone needs to become well educated on the true aspects of a National Park: the inevitable expansion after inception, according to the history of nearly all US NP’s; the dire financial condition of the present National Park maintenance funding; and the adverse effects on industries surrounding a National Park.
preservemainetraditions.com
There is valuable information on the web page of “Preserve Maine Traditions”. There are links and references to the factual content of the statements.
Much research has been done to maintain a truly informational web page.
no problem I know what your saying. thanks
Poll is local and therefor relevant, unlike the statewide poll which contacted 600 out of 1.3 million and is not relevant since only local approval is mentioned in park rules for additions to the national park system.
This girls doesn’t know when to quit. She is at a point where she may be willing to pay the state to take the land off her hands but no National Park. It’s time to ignor her and hope she goes away. If not, then we should ask her to leave the State. She thinks because she has lots of money she will get what she wants, I don’t believ she will.
Amen
It’s actually time to brush up on your spelling.
or you to put down the drink
Since application to add a unit to the national park system requires local approval, this poll is very significant. Park proponents have touted the results of an earlier phone poll, but that poll was not conducted in the local area, so it is irrelevant. Medway citizens are challenging the vote taken there, where Quimby’s desperate need for local approval led to tactics that have warranted correction by the voters. Any claim by park proponents that there is local approval has evaporated to the remaining Millinocket Chamber of Commerce support, which is not representative of the people in Millinocket, but only their personal opinions. There is no local support for a national park. The rest of Maine and the rest of the country have no say. We, the locals, say no.
There is no Millinocket Chamber of Commerce, only the Katahdin Area Chamber of Commerce which consists of the towns of Millinocket, East Millinocket and Medway.
Thanks for the correction.
the poll may be significant and it may even be close to accurate, but any data person could tell you that the results are tainted by the inherent bias of the folks placing the calls. (calls to the 528 exchange were made by volunteers working for the group that opposes the park.
Alot like Dills poll ???
if she conducted it herself, yes, absolutely
Following your line of reasoning, that would mean that any poll conducted by the pro-park contingent is also tainted and therefor of little use.
yes, polls should be conducted by an unbiased group to assure untainted results.
Maine’s Senate 31-3 against. East Millinocket 513-132 against. Patten 87% against. Millinocket Town Council – resolution against. Medway’s “real” re-vote – soon to be against. No local support = No National Park. Is the message coming through yet???? While leaving a comment here, please take a moment and sign our petition against the Park. Thank you.
http://preservemainetraditions.com/sign-petition/
Done… :-)
But lots of people who don’t even live there are for it! :-/
How many people were called? Were they randomly selected? What is the poll’s margin of error? What specific questions were asked? In what order? Was other data, such as demographics, gathered?
No matter who conducts a poll on whatever topic, these questions should be answered in the news story or at least linked to the story. Who says so? The American Association of Public Opinion Research.
I put a lot more faith in this poll that the rigged one in Medway-
Perhaps a serious BDN reporter would have added the information you speak of to his story.
I fully believe that those facts are available, but perhaps a decision was made not include them in the article. Perhaps a serious reporter would also make references, to prove the validity of a certain statement (description of a feasibility study), in a document other than in a previous article he had written himself.
Setting the stage for cause and effect is key in journalism. Leaving out pertinent facts and garnishing others gets the intended message (of the reporter) out there.
I must give credit to Mr. Sambides for more completely reporting on the above article, with the 4:57 PM modification.
Thanks for that. Oftentimes stories posted early in the day are just the beginnings or tops of the full story. We try to bring more news to readers earlier in the day with the Web, with the “final” version of a story printed in the following day’s newspaper.
You call this news? It’s small town gossip, really.
Nick why does the BDN never confront ot investigate all of the contradictory staements coming from Ms. Quimby or the pro park supprters?
1. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001- ‘ The land she has bought so far generally will be left alone so it can recover from heavy logging, she said. In the future, campgrounds and visitor centers could be built on some parcels. She hopes ultimately to donate the land she buys to the federal government for inclusion in the proposed national park.
2. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 ‘Quimby, 50, is a member of RESTORE’s board of directors. Like a modern-day Percival Baxter, she hopes to nudge the park from dream to reality by buying up the land herself.
3. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 In fact, she said, ‘very few people derive a living from the woods. She says most people do as she did before she became a wealthy businesswoman: They cut some wood, farm some vegetables, make some crafts to sell at fairs’.
4. Americans for a Maine Woods National Park and Preserve Announced 2003- Formation of a new group of national leaders called “Americans for a Maine Woods National Park” has been announced by its Co-Chairs Will LaPage and Roxanne Quimby. To date, 110 distinguished Americans from many walks of life have joined this national advisory committee in order to promote the proposed Maine Woods National Park and Preserve
5. Maine Enviormental News 11/24/2003. Her goal is to buy as much forestland as possible, help it become truly wild and donate the land for a national park. The environmental organization RESTORE: The North Woods is working to establish a 3.2 million-acre national park and preserve around “forever wild” Baxter State Park. Quimby has been a public advocate of RESTORE’s effort.
6. National Geographic News Feb. 2004- Americans for a Maine Woods National Park, an interest group that was founded by RESTORE: The North Woods, a conservation organization that’s spearheading a protection plan for an enormous swath of woodlands in the U.S. East. The proposed national park would encompass 3.2 million acres (1.3 million hectares), an area larger than Yellowstone and Yosemite combined.
7. Northern Sky News June 2004- She recently left the board of RESTORE, and is now active with a group called Americans for a Maine Woods National Park. The group is actively working to get more people outside northern Maine interested in the park proposal.
8. Northern Sky News June 2004-“We have attempted to take the question out of Maine, certainly out of northern Maine, where there is an enormous backlash but very few people,” says Quimby. “This is a national park, it should be on the national agenda. … So our strategy is to take it out of Piscataquis and Penobscot counties where it will simply bubble away and nothing will ever happen.”
9. Yankee magzine 2008 ‘At the time, Roxanne was on the board of RESTORE: “People up there hate RESTORE, so I put some distance between us at that point. I didn’t need that.” * As of July 2011 Roxanne Quimby is still listed on the Restore website as calling for a 3.2 million acre park.
10. The Quimby Family Foundation lists RESTORE as one of the beneficiaries of its grants for 2010 and 2011
11. The Quimby Family Foundation lists the Forest Ecology Network as a grantee for 2005, 2006 and 2008. FEN is one of the organizations calling for a 3.2 Million acre Park.
12. Yankee magzine 2008 ‘There is nothing more real than real estate, and Roxanne has repeatedly said she would like to see the lands she has acquired become the seeds of a new national park. What she owns now would be a very credible beginning’
13. RESTORES WEBSITE JULY 2011 “American people love their national parks.”Ms. Quimby hopes Mr. Spalding and Restore’s [Maine] director, Mr. St. Pierre, are right. The idea of a park, she said, “floats my boat.” She prefers that her 75,000 acres become a base on which Restore’s 3.2-million acre park could be built.
14. Sun Journal May 2011 – I still love the vision of a 3.2-million-acre national park in Maine,” said Quimby, “but I know it’s not going to happen in my lifetime. This is what I can do now.
15. Maine Public Radio 9/21/11 -I (RQ)feel best about limiting the conversation to land that I own so that’s why I’m talking about 70,000 acres and not 3.2 million but theoretically the sky’s the limit!”
16. Keep Maine Beautiful Website (RQ’s website August 2011) – EPI’s ongoing land acquisition efforts, communication with local recreational users to identify their needs, and collaboration with the National Park Service has led Roxanne and her foundation to conclude that federal protection is the best management option for EPI’s lands and the public.
17. The total land area Quimby hopes to convey is approximately 140,000 acres. Friends of Baxter newsletter Fall 2011 Vol. 10 #4
18. The National Park Conservation Association website has a page highlighting Roxanne Quimby’s work. It states that the proposal is for 3.2 million acres.
19. Until the fall of 2011 EPI’s website maintained a link to RESTORES website. This was removed after park critics pointed it out.
20. National Parks Traveler magazine also says that the proposal calls for a park of 3.2 million acres created in time for the National Park Service’s centennial in 2016.
21. Maine Woods National park website calls for a 3.2 million acre park http://www.mainewoodsnationalpark.com/the-park.html
Nick why does the BDN never confront ot investigate all of the contradictory staements coming from Ms. Quimby or the pro park supprters?1. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001- ‘ The land she has bought so far generally will be left alone so it can recover from heavy logging, she said. In the future, campgrounds and visitor centers could be built on some parcels. She hopes ultimately to donate the land she buys to the federal government for inclusion in the proposed national park. 2. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 ‘Quimby, 50, is a member of RESTORE’s board of directors. Like a modern-day Percival Baxter, she hopes to nudge the park from dream to reality by buying up the land herself. 3. Bangor Daily News July 10 2001 In fact, she said, ‘very few people derive a living from the woods. She says most people do as she did before she became a wealthy businesswoman: They cut some wood, farm some vegetables, make some crafts to sell at fairs’. 4. Americans for a Maine Woods National Park and Preserve Announced 2003- Formation of a new group of national leaders called “Americans for a Maine Woods National Park” has been announced by its Co-Chairs Will LaPage and Roxanne Quimby. To date, 110 distinguished Americans from many walks of life have joined this national advisory committee in order to promote the proposed Maine Woods National Park and Preserve 5. Maine Enviormental News 11/24/2003. Her goal is to buy as much forestland as possible, help it become truly wild and donate the land for a national park. The environmental organization RESTORE: The North Woods is working to establish a 3.2 million-acre national park and preserve around “forever wild” Baxter State Park. Quimby has been a public advocate of RESTORE’s effort.
Polling 600 out of 1.32 million doesn’t even come close to passing a straight face test.
Always knew there are a lot of good people in Patton, they have been directly effected by Quimby and not in a good way, Ban Roxanne.
Patten with “e”
Will somebody please tell cindy dill where Patten is! lol
Dill just needs to hear some good music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IAp0E5pujQ&feature=player_embedded
Totally thought that was going to be a rick roll
I love the phrase ‘so take this park and shove it…to New Hampshire or Vermont, because we know what we don’t want’.
Medway formed a group to push for a revote apparently George McLaughlin and his little sidekick Bruce Stanley have been giving the locals the wrong facts about Queen Quimby’s ideas.
Its amazing how money can buy some people. Nice try boys ! Maybe its time to look for something else to do. I think you will see you’ve lost this battle for the park ! BAN ROXANNE
Thank you, Patten and Charlie Pray!
Maybe it’s time for Katahdin Area Chamber of Commerce to rethink their position and take another vote of members.
If you haven’t yet signed the petition, please do! http://preservemainetraditions.com/sign-petition/
Ken Salazar needs to hear from all of us, loud and clear.
Note to Roxanne Quimby and Cynthia Dill: We don’t want a feasibility study or a national park here. We do NOT WANT RESTORE either! No means no.
“Volunteers working for his group conducted the survey over several days, Pray said.”
When groups advocating positions gather volunteers to formulate, conduct, tabulate, validate and report their own polls it isn’t news. It’s propaganda.
There are very serious considerations both for and against the proposal. Thoughtful review of objections and support is in order, not marketing campaigns.
Yeah, we’ve seen plenty of Quimby park propaganda
Polls aren’t all that accurate unless you take a good sample size of the population. That being said, the majority of people from that area I’ve talked to don’t support it. But that still doesn’t make up the majority.
I always thought if a “majority of people” don’t support something…that makes up the “majority”….
I haven’t talked to a majority of the people that live there, what my comment says is that of the people I know and have talked to from that area (probably about 20 or so) most don’t like the idea. I would hope such a small sample size wouldn’t make up the majority though in some places it does.
a majority of the people, or a majority of the people polled?
there is a difference
I suspect it’s becoming evidently clear to Mr. Salazar that a majority of the people of the region do not support the creation of National Park therefore a feasibility or recon study is not necessary. Is it possible that Mr. Salazar was mislead to believe that people in the region really want the park, when, in reality, he was invited only to learn that he was up against major opposition? Why are so many blind sided in this situation?
How about Roxanne buys Cape Elizabeth and converts it to a national park? She has better poll numbers there.
I dont think she would be welcome there either- we just have Dill’s word on that one…
Volunteers working for a group opposing the park say about 43 people said they opposed it.
“Volunteers working for his group conducted the survey over several days, Pray said.”
It took several days to call 50 people and ask a one line question? Or did it take several days to find 43 people who fell for the push poll?
It’s her land. And in America, property rights still mean something.
Absolutely correct – she can do whatever she wants with her land – but when she wants to make it a National Park that makes it my business. That’s why there are safeguards in place such as local approval, of which, there is none. If she wanted to give it to Baxter, put it in a land trust, or manage it herself none of this would be happening.
i agree with you on that. for the life of me, i don’t understand why she doesn’t team up with the Nature Conservancy and just do it.
Maybe because she has other motives?
oops. posted to the wrong comment
In your dreams!
Bruce and George , Give it up ! You jumped on Quimbys bandwagon to quick thinking that the Medway citizens was with you on the NP…. WOW, was you wrong !!
An evolutionary twinkle of lemmings fleeing change and hard wired to fail.
LOL…..What ?????
redsquirrel is talking about you…
You have alot of hate in you !!
?? no.
yes
weak
the ban roxanne movement is anything but weak
perhaps, but it is not demonstrated in these comments.
if you say so
your ‘debate’ style reminds me of my little brother when he was 6.
Yes you did
no I didnt.
Yes I did.
No, you didn’t.
not exactly an expansive debate.
Weaky McWeakers.
What debate, Quimby strums the same old tune, and we reply with the same objection-
Its been going on for years, other than voter proof of lack of support, its just the same old song
Beautiful picture of the stream. I wonder if there is gold in it?
With Spurwink Woods Development right in the backyard of Rep Dill and Ms. Roxanne Quimby, I am surprised money has not been raised to buy out the developer. People in Southern Maine would do well to protect their own land and let us do what we believe is right in our back yard.
To Cecil, calling the federal government a “money tree” is pretty much the root of our societal problems.
To those bent on a Park, why have you not discussed the model of the Downeast Lakes Land Trust? Locally controlled, it seems to meet a balanced set of needs by people living, working, and vacationing in the region. When the federal government is cutting $1 trillion from the DoD over the next 10 years and admits concern over meeting other obligations such as social security, federal employee retirements, military retirements, and other programs, it is puzzling how one might conclude additional federal obligations are contemplated by anyone with the ability to exercise even rudimentary critical thinking.
that doesn’t sound like a poll to me. go with the critical insights poll.
Local is what counts here and nothing else. The critical insights poll was not done locally- ergo is irrelevant and meaningless.
The notion that because “I live closer than you do” means nobody else matters is rather presumptuous.
Sometimes living within the forest leaves one blinded to it’s greater significance.
Half a century ago, that which we treasure most about Maine was being decimated and a few weak voices became a choir. Maine’s environmental advocates were heralded as leaders. Today they are spat upon with disdain.
The rights of individuals and of businesses must be respected. The fragile nature of local economies and cultures must be considered.
But another factor is also very relevant. That is the very simple truth that nothing is more certain than change.
How that change will come is the only thing within our control. To try to stonewall by refusing to examine various impacts (including financial studies) is to condemn ourselves to the whims of profiteers with no objective other than plunder.
Everything with liberals id fragile. Fragile economies, fragile forests, fragile waterways, fragile ecosystems, fragile this, fragile that. Well I think it’s the liberals themselves that are fragile. Fragile “feelings”, fragile minds, etc…
Every State and National Park should be shut down and opened up to the Loggers, Miners, Gas, and Oil companies so they can cut all the wood, mine all the minerals, and drill for any gas and oil that might be present. That would be a boon to the local economies of this state. Instead we have airheads that think we can live just fine with wind and solar power. I’m from Jackman and most people there oppose this national park nonsense. Especially when you explain to them that it it would severely restrict, and ban hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, and other recreational uses of the land.
You’re serious, aren’t you? You actually mean that.
I’m sorry, Jeff. I won’t pick a fight with you. I was serious. too.
I have a great love of those recreational resources. Like you, I’m adament that they be preserved. I simply distrust the logging conglomerates, the mining industry, the petro-magnates and I’ll even add in the fortune-seeking land developers. I think the landscapes they’ve laid waste to elsewhere are evidence enough to justify my distrust.
The boon you proclaim has been seen in countless places in America. It’s a blast. Literally.
And when it’s over, what remains?
Jobs, prosperity, pride, dignity.
There’s no black & white answer. Preservationists and economists do not have the same thought processes. Businesses large and small, right down to the institutions of families, cannot logically operate on just one premise or the other.
The words “conservation” and “compromise” come to mind. In this debt ridden nation, there is a growing population of jobless, homeless, disabled and distressed people. The present admin. is operating on the premise that an “outdoor initiative” (National Parks) will create a healthier population.
Standing outside the box …. what segment of the population will reap the health benefits of preserved lands in the remote parts of the Maine Woods? It won’t be the segment that cannot afford a means of transportation, funds to stay in a motel and patronize area restaurants … while they don’t have jobs, homes, medical benefits and other basic needs.
You mention the waste of landscapes. The US population in 1960 was 179,323,175.
The 2010 US population was 308,745,538. While preservationists are consumed with preserving more of our landscapes, where will the population of 2060 be? Where will they live? How will they survive? How will the Federal Government provide basic needs for the growing population, with a nation lacking in industry? Will more of the US population be living in 3rd world conditions while the (dwindling) elite population enjoys the healthful, peaceful serenity of remote preserved landscapes?
There needs to be logical compromise.
Of course they don’t want it. It would bring jobs and they might have to go off welfare.
I hope the land will be kept forever wild but donated instead to Baxter State Park.
After reading some of the posted comments let me try to shed a little information. First, I have not, nor do I try to make condescending remarks about anyone here or in the discussion about the issue of a national park.
TREES4Maine is not an anti Quimby group. We support the responsible economic and environmental stewardship of the State’s natural resources for the advantage of the citizens of Maine.
The pre interview remarks discuss the survey was about assessing the opinion of individuals in the region on the economy and regional issues, it did not preset a bias on any issue, callers were instructed (and I trust them) not to provide any self opinion if asked.
The survey had sixteen questions to assess a larger concern of the State’s and region’s economy, how the State could could expand and diverse its economy, it touched on tourism, outdoor recreation, perceptions of the State’s forest industry’s and others. Question ten asked, “Do you support the proposal for a National Park in the Katahdin region?” No slant, no bias, no reference to Ms. Quimby.
We were interested in finding out the opinion of those closest to, if a park is created, the area most effected. That would be the Patten (528 telephone exchange). While most keep trying to make this a Millinocket, East, Medway issue, the mills in the first two towns basically do not get their wood supply from the upper East Branch region.
One last point. Critical Insight’s (CI) surveyed .00045% of Maine’s population. Our group surveyed 3.1186% of the households in the greater Patten area. I suspect TREES4Maine’s polling is more accurate than CI’s — and that should not be taken as a derogatory remark about their poll or polling. I suspect if CI pulled out their calls into the 528 exchanges the numbers would bare evidence the accuracy of our polling. The poll numbers were very close to the East Millinocket vote.
If individuals want to have an intelligent discussion on the topic I don’t hide behind some obscured web posting identification. I don’t believe the world is black and white, individuals on both sides have concerns, real and perceived. But, I do not support a rush to judgement, nor a narrow, highly programed agenda of propagandized misinformation and personal name calling. It is counterproductive and does not help the State or its citizens.
Thank you
The anger and personal attacks seen in these posts are based on an epidemic of poverty, powerlessness and hopelessness which have been the prevailing culture in the region for decades. Trying to dull the pain with alcohol and “bath salts” is a temporary fix, but the emptiness of living with no promise of a better future for one’s self and family returns again and again. So, under the cloak of anonymity, the authors of these posts lash out with vitriolic, mean spirited rhetoric aimed at any and all who propose that it might be in the best interest of the area to consider change. These are the death rattles of dying towns.
It seems that there’s plenty of name calling, vitriol, and mean spirited rhetoric from people on both sides of the issue. Both sides are condescending at times. It certainly isn’t all one-sided, and if you think it is, then you haven’t been following this for any length of time.
your poor attempt at classifying, grouping and/or diagnosing a diverse group of varying types of area residents is not only incorrect amateur psychology, but its outright bs
there is an interesting article on conspiracy theory and intellectual vanity. i found it relevant regarding this comment section as well.
http://www.realtruth.org/articles/110203-001-society.html
alas.
Thank-you Mr. Pray for illuminating the public at large regarding your survey and methodology. Hopefully this will allay some concerns about the technical merits among those knowledgeable enough to make such inquiries.
With regard to evaluating alternatives for this state, I would strongly encourage you to press forward facilitating wider discussions regarding our future. With our nation in such economic dire straits, the last thing we need is to add obligations. Seriously, would you want a gravely ill physician with the same ailment as you and not making good medical progress tending to you? That is what we are asking when we look to the federal government to develop a National Park to help solve our economic woes.
I believe the old adage of “patient heal thyself” is the best course of action in this case. The sooner we start working together (Mainers) to help ourselves and stop looking for assistance from other sick patients (other state and external government/agencies with their own financial issues), the better off we will all be. We can do this together more easily, more swiftly, and more sustainably (singleTrackGirl please forgive me if I’ve used any incorrect grammar or spelling) as citizen stakeholders than through government agencies.
Yes, there will be people recreating in ways we all may not appreciate but we are a diverse society. We should stop trying to control and change each other and start trying to appreciate what we all bring to the table.
Do you suggest, then, that the 150 laid off workers from the Bucksport mill refuse the federal assistance that our two senators just captured for them?
love you, thanks again for the great comment.
Don’t forget to visit http://preservemainetraditions.com/
“If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them something more than the miracles of technology, we must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning. ” President Lyndon B. Johnson
Oh that’s right….there are no future generations in this town. The youngsters have all moved away because they needed jobs. Will the last one to leave town please turn off the lights?
And here is a little secret from me: I grew up outside Washington DC; parents moved to Maine my senior year and I finished high school there. I moved to Maine the day after graduation and discovered a different lifestyle here than in the ‘burbs of DC.
I listened to hard working Mainers; noted those who did not – trust me, the DC area was and is filled with welfare recipients and jobs that produce little of value to the economy or society at large. I worked; accepted wages 30% less than I thought I would get when I graduated and did not complain. I’ve worked my way along for thirty-one years in this great state and travelled all over this country and various places on the globe. This place is a great place to live and the best way to preserve our wonderful state is to do it together without the federal government.
Perhaps the 150 in Bucksport would not have needed the federal aid if the federal agencies manipulating our enterprises through various odd and nonsensical regulations would have kept their noses out of our businesses.
“There is new life in the soil for every man. There is healing in the trees for tired minds and for our overburdened spirits. There is strength in the hills, if only we will lift up our eyes. Remember that nature is your great restorer.” President Calvin Coolidge
he has, its been from a bar room pulpit
With yet another vote against Quimby’s National Tax-Waste, where do we go from here…?
More Insults?
More Threats?
More Broken Promises?
More Attacks From Your Minion?
The people have rejected your liberal la-la land proposal and/or its feasibility study!
The Governor, our two Senators, and the Congressman from the district in question have rejected it!
Nearly all of the State Legislature has rejected it!
Sports groups (fishing, hunting, atv, snowmobile and so on) have rejected it!
Most of Maine has rejected it!
The truth from Cate Street came out against it!
Lets face it, the Quimby National Park isnt gonna happen!!!!!
Move On…!
How you spell words or use punctuation do not matter or have anything to do with your level of intelligence. What matters is what you say, what’s in your heart, and your passion. Please don’t bring folks down because they make mistakes with their spelling – their message is what’s important, not how they spell it and I, for one, would like to hear what they have to say.
Well said.