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• Anonymous

  The Constitution of the United States does not say:  you have a right to free speech, but only if the local government signs off on a permit for you to use public land.

  Think about it.  The Founders knew that free speech was hard work and required challenging entrenched forces.  OWS is up against corporate tyranny and corrupt government.  Our democracy has been hijacked by lobbyists.  Our jobs are going, on the backs of billionaires, to China. 

  Wake up, folks!

• Anonymous

  Shocking. City management fails to act to remove illegal trespassers. Impossible to negotiate with the self-righteous OBERS as they have, by their own choice, no one in authority who can represent them. They have no intention to follow any legal order to vacate anyway. They are more than content enough to use the legal system to tie up the city, but have no respect for the rule of law in general.  They will let the likes of Spruce Dweller, Kayakmamma and StillRelaxin to carry their water for them.    

• Anonymous

  There are moral imperatives higher than petty ordinances, especially when it comes to saving our once-great country from sinking lower and lower, as our money-hungry kleptocracy continues to hand power to China, while making themselves richer and richer.

• http://twitter.com/kirkywood Kirk Wood

  last time I checked tents are made to be used to camp in at a campground or in the woods away from it all not in front of the library 

• Anonymous

  I wanted to drive by the park today to see for myself, but I was too busy working earning a living to pay my mortgage, insurance, food all done with pride that I did it myself.

• Anonymous

  Tents do not speak, therefore there is no free speech factor. You should spend the night under the moonlit night of downtown Bangor and speak your peace to anyone willing to listen.

• Anonymous

  Americans standing up for what they believe in does not make them self-righteous. It makes them concerned American citizens. When the founding fathers were using public spaces for debate and to express their opinions, thoughts and ideas, they didn’t need a permit from a city council to hold an “event.” They believed in the freedom of assembly. They are more content in making sure that our constitution doesn’t get ripped away from the American people. There would be no need for them use the legal system if they were given the right to free assembly instead of a paid right to assemble.

• Anonymous

  Please, the self importance of these people is over the top. Go home and get some jobs, play with the kids, and volunteer in your community if you want to make a change.

• Anonymous

  Keep up the Great Work.  It is a fine effort to be heard. 

• Anonymous

  I am not an OWS protester – for many reasons… I have shared those reasons before — but that doesn’t mean that this movement has no truth in its framework – nor does it mean that nobody that supports it works for a living… I understand how you feel – I have worked hard – very hard – without any help- ever – from anyone.  I do not begrudge the rich, I want to help the truly needy, and do something about those who are just lazy…… I also don’t like corporate welfare – I don’t like the government wasting my tax dollars.. i don’t like politicians becoming rich on bills they vote in… I don’t like the pork in all the bills….. (all because of lobbyists and promises)…….   I don’t like that politicians across the board are dirty and self-serving….

  You probably feel the same way about a lot of things… and you – like me – may never find yourself involved in one of these protests…. you may look and see a lack of integrity in certain areas that bother you personally, so you may just stay away completely —- but – you probably are able to still realize that not every single protester can be lumped into one category…. please try and be fair…   call a spade a spade when you see it (the dirty socks on the park bench really bother me – I find it revolting that a parent and child might want to read together on that bench but can’t because a protester wont just pick up after him/herself… its gross and dirty)……..  I have no problem with honesty…but try not to lump and label… it rarely works..

• Anonymous

  Hey, who needs laws! We occupiers are above all that because we are doing such noble work.

  Only the leftists behind this charade think they don’t need to abide by laws or common decency to their fellow community. They wrap their actions in some cloak of self-righteousness that they want to use as a shield. In fact they are nothing but bad citizens who have abused the body politic for their own ends. Be gone you rabble and take your shanty town with you. You have only damaged your own movement at this point and turned the average citizen against you, but then again you don;t really care about them..just your own idea of your importance and self-worth.

• Anonymous

  Who actually thinks this movement is going anywhere but the ashbin of history. Even their own leadership have admitted they have lost the narrative, the majority of their fellow citizens thinks ill of them, they have been removed from their fetid camps for public health while the remainder in places are violent anarchists. The leadership has even proposed that they become an non-profit so they can get in on the action and take big fat checks for themselves. Only a few dead-enders remain here on the BDN comment section to defend them.

• Anonymous

  can someone explain what the point in camping overnight is going to prove, let alone even being theer after dark…who in $ell even cares.  they could just go home and start back in the morning.. Is there something going on in these tents we should or do not want to know about. 

• Anonymous

  we are counting on your wandering moral ways to save this country….

• Anonymous

  Part of what I believe is mis-directed logic on your part, as well as most other occupier supporters that post here, is the blame you direct toward lobbyists, corporations, etc., for hijacking our government. The fact is, our politicians ALLOWED it to happen. THAT’s where your anger should be directed. Lawyers, unions, energy companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc., (the list goes on and on) offered big donations to re-election campaigns, and it was shamefully accepted. Politicians from both sides of the aisle, from the current campaigner-in-chief (who has bragged of intentions to raise a BILLION dollars for his re-election campaign), back as far as we care to track, can find evidence of  politicians accepting (bribes) donations, that seem to have strings attached. By the way, why aren’t you complaining about all that could be done to feed the homeless, or buy useless solar panels, school supplies, or whatever you like, with that re-election fund?

  You can demand all the taxes on the rich you want, but if you are successful, and the government taxes all the wealth away from the “1%ers”, then what? Really…..what? There is NO reason what-so-ever to believe that they could ever be responsible with that short-term money, so when it is blown, and history shows us it would be, then what? Did you ever wonder that? Are you really under the impression that if the government took it all away from the “rich” and gave it to the other 99%, that problems would be cured? Many in the 99% can’t manage $20 in a grocery store, so when they blow their winfall from the rich, then what? Who do you go after the next time? Educate me and others that don’t understand this argument. Please!

• Anonymous

  occupy bangor ..yup that really important to wall street… they are shaking in their boots

• Anonymous

  these are the tents they bought at walmart from china that were never used for real camping…. Oh yes they understand why we are in  the mess we have…yup

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

  I love it. The protesters are protesting because they THINK all company’s are breaking laws and making to much money as a result. They on the other hand have no problems breaking the law or costing the taxpayers money via there actions. 

• Anonymous

  Spruce and the U.S. Constitution does not say: you have a right to keep and bear arms, but only if the local government signs off on a permit and approves the types and caliber I wish to keep and bear.

  So would you please point me to the nearest M2 Quad mount dealer. I want to mount one in the bed of my GMC Z71. It is after all my “right” to own one under the 2nd Amendment and the laws prohibiting/regulating such purchase are an infringement on my Constitutional Rights.

• Anonymous

  Start arresting them for civil disobedience…..

• wishyouknew2

  The city needs to charge rent or evict them. Can I plan an event and use the park without them being there? Heck no…..they need to GO!

• Anonymous

  Great post and well said.

• Anonymous

  November 21, 1864 Abraham Lincoln: “I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country…corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed”.

  Sound familiar?

• Anonymous

  March up and down the road with a signs! Don’t litter up the park. Every other town they march on the bridges!!! Do the right thing, go home and march during the day! Hold your sign proudly and do your thing, civil.

• Anonymous

  Spruce – I will concede that we are handing power to China, which I think you are trying to state in your bath salt induced rhetoric, but this is due to unsustainable spending on entitlement programs for sloths like yourself.  Under the Obama administration, the National debt has increased $5T in just 3 years.  Higher taxes are not the solution.  If you confiscated every penny owned by 1000 billionaires, it would only eliminate $1T in debt.  And this debt is money borrowed from countries like China.  So yes, we are handing power to China in return for supporting people like you.

• Anonymous

  You forgot the part about “taking a bath”. (advice from Newt)

• Anonymous

  The movement in two months has gone from a few dozens to hundreds of thousands of people all over the country. It has been organized enough to get groups going all over the world. Support grows each and every day. The movement hasn’t been damaged because it grows even as we speak. 

  Frankly the only one that sounds self righteous right now is you. Do you even read what you write? 

• Anonymous

  Oh please, he is the moral compass of the movement. He is needed right where he is as a humorous representation of the ill thought logic and lack of reasoning that props up Occupy.

• Anonymous

  And so are the majority of people supporting this movement all over the country. Why is it so difficult for some people to realize that they are hard working, patriotic American citizens from all walks of life? There are people from all ends of the spectrum with the majority of supports working very hard, many two or three jobs. Please get better informed.

• Anonymous

  I have read that before, but good isn’t it….thanks for sharing.

• Anonymous

  Once again, your lefties take the Lincoln quote out of context. He is taking about free labor versus slave labor. But then again what do facts matter to you guys when you twist just about everything to fit your goals.

• Anonymous

  I know. Wasn’t that an ignorant statement by a presidential candidate? Sad field of candidates.

• Little Bear

  Must be the new section 8 housing. I would think the city would happy about it less cost for them. LOL

• Anonymous

  No one is asking for the government to take away ALL from the rich. That sure is misleading and more than a bit of exaggeration.  They are only pointing out that the inequities are growing and there should be a fairer shake for all.

• Anonymous

  Love those poll results. Occupy=Owned!

• Anonymous

  Misinformed? Newt was dead on as usual.

• Anonymous

  Many of the 99% supporters are doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians, mill workers, factory workers, construction workers, ministers, rabbis, professors, house wives, fishermen, car dealers…and the list goes on.

  They don’t want the government to take away all money from the rich. They want an end to corporate and political corruption. They want hard working American citizens to have jobs so that they can support their families with the same standard of living that our parent’s generation enjoyed. They want people to make a living wage where they can have a home, feed and cloth their children, afford healthcare. They want American companies to stop having loop holes where they outsource or shelter their money in other countries to avoid paying American taxes.

  So many across this country have done all the right things. They have educated themselves, they had great paying jobs where they worked hard and were dedicated only to be let go for the sake of billion dollar profits. Americans who have worked their entire adult lives and who are looking toward retirement are let go so that they can hire younger workers for less money and less benefits.

• Guest

  I’ve got something to say, too. And I think it’s important. Does that mean I can go ignore the rules that everybody else around me follows, too?

• Anonymous

  He’s speaking at the end of the war and he’s talking about the corporations who have gained in profit and stature because of the war – just like has happened with the military-industrial complex (Eisenhower warned us about them, too, didn’t he?  I guess the ‘old time’ Republicans had some sense).  His words are clear whether he’s talking about slave vs free (which I see no where mentioned in the longer context from which this quote is taken).  He’s clearly warning us about aggregating power into a few hands and the destruction of our country.    

• Anonymous

  Yes I have visited the encampment in Bangor, and yes I have talked to them there. I found them to be well meaning and misguided people with little grasp of economics or governance. They probably would be good to have a beer with, but as far as following their disparate goals as a way to achieve anything productive..please. And there was a smell there too.

• Anonymous

  Yes, it was a very ignorant statement. Not anyone you would want being the President of all the people.  As  if he is some sterling character!!!!

• Anonymous

  Look at those poll results. Ouch.

• Anonymous

  Our Founders recognized that corrupt government, leaning toward tyranny, needs to be challenged not simply by volunteering in the community, but sometimes by speaking up harshly and pushing for a true revolution of ideas and actions.

  Such revolutions require brave patriots like the OWS people, willing to take scorn while fighting for true freedom against the greed of corporations and their politician concubines.

• Anonymous

  Companies aren’t breaking the laws, they are making the laws because they have bought and paid for our politicians and hijacked our political system so that this country doesn’t belong to “We the People” but belongs to the corporations who pay our politician’s salaries. 

• Anonymous

  Lots of opinion, zero argument.  Did you know that the middle class is disappearing into poverty as the rich get richer:

  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/us/middle-class-areas-shrink-as-income-gap-grows-report-finds.html

• Anonymous

  Spruce – have you seen the BDN poll results?  Not looking good.   

• Anonymous

  The OWS people are not “fascists all.”

• Anonymous

  “The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.”
  Abraham Lincoln

• Anonymous

  If your comment was removed by a moderate, and you repost it, it shows willful violation of the terms of contract you agreed to.

• Anonymous

  “The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.”
  Abraham Lincoln

• Anonymous

  When Wall Street destroyed the economy, home equity in the US dropped 30%.  People with mortgages couldn’t pay, or ended up paying far more than their home was worth.

• Anonymous

  Tents do not speak?  that’s your argument …??

• Anonymous

  So, you’re criticizing government interference in the rights provided in the Constitution–so you are pro-free speech for OWS.  Thanks!

• Anonymous

  Did you talk with people from the media or public relations working groups? They generally are the best to articulate what the movement is about. Not all people are public speakers. There are various working groups which allow people to work in the area of their strength. You may have been talking to someone from logistics, security or outreach. 

  I have noticed no foul smells there so maybe…I’m just saying.

• Anonymous

  I said “all the wealth” not all their money. After all, isn’t the goal to “spread the wealth”? If you think I am exaggerating, please read many of the posts that have been written over the past couple weeks under the topics related to the OWS or OBangor saga.

• Anonymous

  Yes, but then you can read and comprehend.

• Anonymous

  I thought you made some reasonable points.

• Anonymous

  Yes, very indicative of our education system.

• Anonymous

  Never said I was against Free Speech there Spruce.

  Do you support my right to own without permit and interference from any government agency a Ma Deuce .50 caliber quad full auto anti-aircraft system?

• Anonymous

  I don’t know about the movement going into the ashbin of history. Unfortunately, we’re all going to be hearing about how great it all was for the next 40 years, just like Woodstock. Philosophy and Political Science majors will be writing their dissertations about these angry mobs and painting a very grandiose image of how it was the greatest expression of liberty in American History. And speaking of being hateful, the sticky note that some other posters like to slap on the backs of those who criticize the Right to Lice Movement (credit to Rush Limbaugh); how hateful is it to rub it in the face of authority while hiding behind claims of exercising free speech and having inalienable rights as an ”assembly?” The gall and the arrogance of these so-called citizens is astounding. We need to start pointing the camera away from them, because as long as nobody is looking, their ego and vanity will have nothing to feed on, and their rose will surely begin to wilt. 

• Anonymous

  Wanting jobs that pay a livable wage does not fall under spreading the wealth.

• Anonymous

  And exactly what event would you be planning?

• Anonymous

  Yeah, act just like they do and steal public land!

• Anonymous

  They don’t want to get a permit……why…….because they are breaking the law and the cait does not have the stones to enforce their own rules, regulations and laws!  shame, shame, shame on you Bangor!  I want to see how you act when the KKK starts driving tent post!

• Anonymous

  Is this the third or fourth OWS Bangor edition article today alone?

• Anonymous

  The whole world is watching them and following their lead.

• Anonymous

  I completely agree with your candidness  Lindsay and we share the same views.  Perhaps if the occupiers could better police their own so that families could enjoy some of the park or even the benches at the library.  It is a beautiful park and library that is now trashed and allowed to be trashed by the library board. Shame on them. 

• Anonymous

  Like what was done to my ancestors? That kind of stealing land? 

  Tax paying citizens using public property to assemble and practice freedom of speech and thought is not stealing public land. Not allowing tax paying citizens to assemble on public property for those purposes is stealing the land from its citizens.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MJFWDMEYOAKA2WX7PBKRNNFE5Q JustinH

  I’m really not sure what the Occupy Bangor’s point is in the whole picture. I understand New York’s position and symbolic protest on Wall Street and Corporate CEOs, but in a small rural city of Bangor what company, service, government program are they trying to protest? I just don’t really see a point to the tent outs up here. If they want to make a difference go down to NYC and help out there, but your voice won’t be heard up here.

• Anonymous

  What’s that have to do with OWS’s free speech rights?

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  So when the 99% does not agree with you it is the fault of the education system?

• Anonymous

  The public has been very generous and patient with this movement. A right to assembly and free speech does not even hint at what these folks are doing which is quite literally occupying land that was intended to be available to all people of all persuasions. This means that I should be able to go to a public place and not have to suffer indoctrination by a culture or belief system that I do not agree with or wish to be influenced by. Kind of like taking the Ten Commandments off of courthouse lawns. Why is it okay to infringe upon my rights? As a born-and-raised citizen of Bangor, I am currently unable to take a peaceful and quiet stroll through a park that was intended for use by all. Where is the ACLU in this blatant and sustained transgression of my rights? BTW, Native Americans fought each other over land long before any White man ever came over here. No excuse for what happened to a great and proud nation, but if you go back far enough in history, there has been a time and place where every culture has been through very much the same.  

• Anonymous

  Yes, and a gun was held to every homeowners head to sign the mortgage documents.  Take some personal responsibility!

• PaulNotBunyan

  I don’t see how removal of the structure can be construed as a significant impediment to free speech rights. A judge might protect your movie screen, sound system, literature table, etc. providing that you are actually using them to exercise free speech. You can’t just choose an ordinance or law and violate it on free speech grounds. If you could do that, a lot of people would get away with driving unregistered vehicles.

  I’m also curious why the BDN is naming somebody as a spokesman who seems to deny that in the video they posted yesterday. If I go by what he said, he’s just reading something in front of a camera. There is no spokesman. If they take this to a judge, he might expect them to at least show that somebody takes minutes of any meeting where they reach a “consensus”. If you want the court to treat you as a group, you might need to change your ways. Otherwise it could be separate individuals arguing their own case one at a time.

• Anonymous

  Minutes are taken and posted on the website.

• Anonymous

  The first sentence of your original post was “The Constitution of the United States does not say:  you have a right to free speech, but only if the local government signs off on a permit for you to use public land.” Was it not?

  Of course it was it is there for all to see. Anyway…

  So I responded with, “Spruce and the U.S. Constitution does not say: you have a right to keep and bear arms, but only if the local government signs off on a permit and approves the types and caliber I wish to keep and bear.”

  Spruce if you are arguing that an “event” permit is an unconstitutional abridgement to Free Speech how are “instant background checks”, ATF Stamps, permits to carry a concealed weapon/firearm, etc…not an unconstitutional abridgement to my 2nd Amendment Rights?

• Anonymous

  Not all tribes fought over land. Some tribes were peaceful and some were very violent, but not all tribes were warring tribes.

• Anonymous

  The library, its benches nor the park has been trashed. It is still a beautiful park with beautiful people.

• Anonymous

  The mortgage crisis is but one small part of this multifaceted problem of our economic system.

• Anonymous

  You are OK with dangerous, convicted felons being able to buy and use guns?

• PaulNotBunyan

  Thank you. I found it. Does “consensus reached” or “consensus met” indicate voting is done? Who is allowed to vote? Do you have any kind of charter or by-laws specifying that? If not, what would prevent a large group of infiltrators from “joining” a meeting and reaching a consensus to disband? You can’t just make things up as you go along. It just won’t work. You have to delegate some authority because somebody has to make decisions between meetings. That means you can’t continue as a “leaderless” organization.

• Anonymous

  He thinks that all Occupiers are smelly college aged students. This is a statement from someone who wants to be our president. A president is supposed to be fully informed. Newt is repeating Limbaugh talking points rather than sitting down with Occupiers all over the country to see what they are all about. Implying that they are all smelly and need to bathe doesn’t sound very presidential and is in fact evidence that if this is the best that we have, we are in deep trouble.

• Anonymous

  So the abridgement of my 2nd Amendment Right is permissible but the city requiring an event permit is an unconstitutional abridgement of the 1st Amendment?

  Are some Constitutionally guaranteed rights more important or equal than others?

• Anonymous

  Their voice has been heard loud and clear as evidenced by how fast the movement has grown in Maine in the last month. The numbers aren’t decreasing, they are increasing. 

  I sat last night in NYC listening to some well known clergy who were civil rights activists meeting with those who started this movement. One who marched with MLK said that you know how important and powerful a movement is by how many who try to discredit it and smother it.

  The torch was literally passed from those leaders to this new generation who has stirred a nation and world. It was very moving and powerful.

• Anonymous

  The Bangor Chapter Little Rascal “He-Man Woman Haters Club”.

• Anonymous

  No, it just shows that the masses are swayed by misinformation and untruths.

• Anonymous

  Those assembled won’t use free speech to kill someone. A convicted felon with a dangerous and violent past may.

• Anonymous

  Oh nice…invitation only LOL?

• Anonymous

  It is going on all over the country and in other parts of the world. Just because it began in NYC does not negate the other ones in various places.

• Anonymous

  And this may change. They are in the infancy of this movement. The past two months has been focused on bringing awareness to the multifaceted economic problem in our country. These past two months have been about starting the dialogue. As time goes on it will change and evolve because with every social movement, it does not stay exactly the same. 

  Our present system where we have clearly defined leaders isn’t working so well for us right now, so it may not be a model worth duplicating. We are at the point in the history of our country that we need to start thinking outside the box. This movement is fluid as are all social movements so who knows what may transpire next week or next month.

• Kevin_Of_Bangor

  So why did you blame it on the education system?

• Conrad Cook

  In my view as an Occupy Bangor camper, speaking for myself, the cause of the problem is confusion in the minds of most Occupy members.  We have been advised (wrongly, I think) that if we apply for an EVENT permit, we have admitted we are an EVENT and *not* an assembly. Therefore, the prevailing wisdom goes, we would LOSE our 1st amendment protection to *assemble*.

  As far as I can tell, this is entirely untrue.  Event regulations are about things, assembly rules are about people.  If a school applied for an event permit, it does not “become” an event. I expect we should be governed by both the rules about events and assemblies.  I cannot imagine why not. 

  The city has trouble understanding our position because our position is, frankly, incoherent.  We’re amateurs at dealing with governments, and there are many of us with many views.  Sometimes one view is expressed to them, sometimes another.

  The City of Bangor has been remarkably patient with us and I think ought to get a great deal of credit for their commitment to democratic ideals like the 1st amendment.  They have had several opportunities to take a hard line toward us, and have not.  I personally hope we get our act together before their patience wears thin.

  Now the really interesting question is, “Where has this bad advice been coming from, and why?”  But that is, I suppose, off topic.

• Anonymous

  Are but people have been injured and killed by Free Speech. Crying fire in a crowded theater, inciting people to riot, heck some have claimed that Glenn Beck caused the Arizona shooting.

  So are reasonable limits on Free Speech permissible and constitutional or not?

• Anonymous

  The mortgage documents were intentionally deceptive.

• Conrad Cook

  JustinH, what I tell people is that it’s perhaps inaccurate to say we are Occupy Bangor:  really we are Occupy IN Bangor.  Occupy Wall St. is Occupy IN Wall St. 

  The problem is in New York, but the solution must come from ALL OVER the U.S. 

  In other words, think of us as the local branch.  !-)

• Anonymous

  A little dose of levity is good ;)

• Anonymous

  With the problems present in our country that the Occupiers are trying to bring awareness to and action against, people are freaking out about a permit application. There are far more important issues at hand.

• Anonymous

  No, they were killed by guns. And I wouldn’t put anything past Glenn. He is a lunatic.

• Conrad Cook

  Well, the meetings can be pretty chaotic.  To be honest.  This is largely because we don’t entirely understand or follow our Parliamentary process.  (I’m especially including myself — working on it.)

  Look:  we’re amateurs.  People’s movements are always run by amateurs, historically speaking.  –I didn’t come up with that:  I heard it, and I haul it out all the time when people point out that we look like we’re making it up as we go along, that we look like we’re held together by 10% creative misunderstanding and 89% bluff. 

  It looks like that because it is like that.  But we are dedicated.  The night-time temperatures might convince you of that.

• Anonymous

  Consensus means all must agree so if a large group of people joined with the intention of sabotage I doubt if they would find consensus with the rest of the people. Whoever shows up to GA meetings participate in the consensus process. The meetings were held every day but now (I think) they are four days a week. I haven’t been able to be there lately so I’m not sure about that. So there’s not a long time between people coming together to make the decisions. This is what happened last week when three members met with the City, brokered a deal that they brought back to the group that same day and the group rejected it and a different decision was reached. I wouldn’t call it completely leaderless as there is a small, core group who do a lot but they have no more power than any other member and I have seen that principle in action more than once. And it really is a very powerful thing to experience.

• Anonymous

  Yes, thanks for reminding me.

• Anonymous

  “So are reasonable limits on Free Speech permissible and constitutional or not?” This should be a very, very easy question for you to answer.

  It requires only a Yes or a No for an answer and if you want to explain your thought process fine but I think you know that the answer is, reasonable limits on Free Speech are not only permissible but constitutional.

• PaulNotBunyan

  Well, you can figure a city attorney might add a few more things to the questions I raised. The most important one is “Who can vote?”. How long do you think it would take for someone to round up a few bus loads of people to infiltrate a general assembly? Unpaid volunteers, of course.

• PaulNotBunyan

  Well, I was an amateur when I was involved with food co-ops but we were properly organized. None of the money went missing and we were able to donate some food to others. We also put on some good free meals that were open to all. Maybe you heard wrong because I remember so many groups that found an old storefront or something they could rent. If you had questions about the vietnam war , drugs, civil rights there was often some place you could just walk in and ask. They had to be organized and delegate some authority to do that. Today, I mostly see non-profits that answer to whoever is putting up the grant money. They’re open 9-5 weekdays. Not the same.

• Anonymous

  I like your honesty and lack of arrogance. Like many Occupy people, you sound intelligent and thoughtful. I also liked the way Tracy Willette came across on the local news this evening…..very fair-minded and showing a real willingness and interest in working things out. He said he does not foresee any problems.  It is refreshing to see and hear rational people such as Mr Willette and yourself. Not strident and full of distortions like so much  one  reads on these comment pages.

• Anonymous

  Your dedication and committment is respected by many.

• Anonymous

  I wonder how they will like winter camping. Three dog nights will soon be upon us.

• Anonymous

  The BDN poll results??!  Wow!!!!!!

• PaulNotBunyan

  So one person not agreeing can prevent you from moving forward? You will definitely be changing that if you want to increase in numbers. The more people you get, the less likely it is they will all agree. That’s the norm. One exception to the norm is a cult, like Jonestown. Don’t drink the kool-aid in that case.

• Hopier and Changier This Time

  An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent. He must create a mechanism that can drain off the underlying guilt for having accepted the previous situation for so long a time. Out of this mechanism, a new community organization arises.

• Anonymous

  LOL, good advice.

• Anonymous

  Nothing really, and it is probably just a matter of time before something like that happens. There are some people out there desperate and frustrated about this country who don’t fully understand this movement or the people in because of false information that they have been fed. Who knows what some of them might do if the tensions are high. I saw a few people in NYC who just went nuts when they saw the Occupiers marching by. I honestly thought that they were going to snap and hurt someone.

• Anonymous

  I have known Tracy since he was a child. He is a nice man.

• PaulNotBunyan

  I understand that the new canopy may have some symbolic meaning. I have the right to be down there 7 days a week yelling “This park should have a statue of Abe Lincoln”  but I don’t have the right to just go ahead and put one there. My advice is don’t wait for the city to remove it. It doesn’t need to be there.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NXPTPFL746OV2VGR5WBOEUF6W4 Roger

   If this where true then why is it so expensive to operate a corporation? If they really “controlled” the politicians then there would be no unions no environmental laws and so on. Is there some give and take sure.

  All you who truly think this open your own business and you will see very fast the cards are anything but stacked in your favor. Once you own a business with at least 10 employees you will be truly amazed at the paperwork alone. 

• PaulNotBunyan

  Some of them go nuts because they view it as a disorganized, unled mob. If it continues the way it is, it will get infiltrated and really become something like that. Study the many ways policy analysis has been used at home and abroad. I got interested in the subject when the “Pentagon Papers” were published. The infiltration technique is just one of many possible dirty tricks. The countermeasures should be in place in advance. That’s just another reason a proper charter and by-laws are essential. Do that and the general public will know that the events and marches are sanctioned in advance. The press will know who to ask in order to confirm that.

• Anonymous

  Get the police in there and haul them all off… make an example of them, so that nobody will question authority again in this Great City…  Tase Them , see if they like that… who do these people think they are anyway?

• Anonymous

  Well it seems to me that you of all people should understand that maybe they feel that the rules shouldn’t apply to them because they are just exercising their free speech rights and saying something that’s important for us all to hear….or does that argument only apply to OWS types who don’t feel like following the rules that the rest of us must follow?

• http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

  Occupy McDonalds.  1. You get to contribute to economy instead of leaching.  2. They have heat.

• Anonymous

  SpruceDweller – “The mortgage documents were intentionally deceptive”
  You were being sarcastic, right? Explain “deceptive” to the rest of the posters here.
  I know you are clueless, but others need proof. Are you blaming the Public School System for not teaching people how to read and comprehend? Perhaps you are unaware of the Jimmy Carter inspired Community Reinvestment Act that was expanded by Bill Clinton and embraced by George Bush. Forcing Banks to give Mortgage Loans to unqualified buyers to make the feel good Politicos buy more Votes started the Housing slide, not people signing a piece of paper that says what they are borrowing and what their Monthly Mortgage Payment will be.
  If a Republican was in the White House, the OWS bums would be surrounding the place. Just rename Peirce Park “Obamaville”, then they can get Taxpayer (China) money from the next Jobs (Welfare – Tax Increase) Bill El Presidente Obummer tries to ram down the Taxpayer’s throats.
  As my Father told me when I was a smartass teenager, Nobody owes you a living so shut up and get back to work. Somebody has to pay for those iPhones, iPads and Toilet Paper. Oh yeah, they also need to pay for the Weed, Heroin and Condoms.
  Nothing but a bunch of over educated (LOL), lazy whiners with too much time on their hands.
  One other thing, Newt was right, take a bath and get a job, even if it’s at a homeless shelter seeing how the really unfortunate people get through life. Spoiled Brats don’t impress anyone.

• Anonymous

  So what is the answer? Stealing someone else’s property through Government Tyranny to give to those you deem worthy? Really, what do you propose, making the Evil Rich Slaves to the rest of us? Do you think, as Obama stated, that some people just make too much money? Do the Evil Rich show up at your door and rob you at gunpoint? Come on, tell everyone what you would do if you were King Obama.
  I’m waiting Comrade.

• Anonymous

  Ile add one more to that DON”T YOU DEAR QUESTION WERE YOUR TAX MONEY GOES AN HOW ITS SPENT

• Anonymous

  Listen to Rush much?

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  The credibility of the movement and City Hall is dwindling day by day.  The movement should pack up and leave and show that they are indeed peaceful and only out to make a message available to those that are interested. 

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  I am always amazed to read comments from liberal posters that very obviously listen to Rush Limbaugh on a daily basis.  I lean right and I never listen to the man – go figure.

• http://youngwilliam.livejournal.com William Young

  In my mind, the Event vs Assembly debate is whether it’s like a parade (IE: It’ll involve X number of folks, will last from this time to that time, and will get in the way of anyone who wants to be between this place and that place during those times, and it’ll be slightly annoying to folks who don’t like it), or like the audience watching a parade (IE: One can only take a wild estimate at how many folks will be involved, one doesn’t know how long each person will be there, one doesn’t know exactly where those folks will gather, and it’ll still be slightly annoying to folks who don’t like it).

  Since there is no Occupy Bangor Club that’s uniquely attending this, I’d say it’s more comparable to the latter example of an audience, than like the former.

• http://youngwilliam.livejournal.com William Young

  I honestly can not tell if this suggestion is Johnathan Swift-style satire or not.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_66ZAIIT2G52RMJ2WGCIFREBVZ4 Joe

  Your father was very wise. Will you run for President?

• Anonymous

  I agree. Having signs that you cannot help but read as you walk through the park is a form of assault. Just the same as pulling up behind a car with offensive bumper-stickers.

• Anonymous

  Great point! Every time someone walks out of WalMart with another bag of their cheap Chinese booty, our debt to a communist regime goes a little higher. Be an American, buy American. We could solve all our financial problems in this great nation by turning “free’ trade into fair trade and put Americans back to work. Then they could pay their taxes, buy new homes, buy new cars, and support the economy. Our economy has been on a down hill ride in the hand basket to hell since we joined the WTO and practically held the door open for factories and jobs to flee over seas. We should identify the names of every one that packed up and left this great nation chasing juicy cheap foreign labor and publish them. Then we could all go and find them for a good old fashioned tarring and feathering for the treasonous acts that they have committed against this great nation. Any time that you do something that under mines the strength of a nation and threatens our well being, that is an act of treason. It is no different than a traitor selling our secrets to a foreign enemy, the harm to America is the same.

• Anonymous

  Read Huffington Post much?

• Anonymous

  Ad hominem attacks suit the left best. Trying to deflect from JD’s argument does not win you any points.

• Anonymous

  Great idea, email me at countyguy2010@yahoo.com if you want help infiltrate the group. LOL.

• Anonymous

  Newt represents all that is wrong with politics today. He is a greedy, self absorbed dim wit that lacks a shred of moral fiber or decency. Besides, his head is way too big in proportion to the rest of his body, so he can never be president. The guy has shown his true colors way too many times and is unelectable. The only thing his candidacy can accomplish is a landslide for Obama in the next election. Sorry if I tainted your version of the great Newt Gingrich.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FKTKHFPJKGUSNNTTQLMH4O3RQI paul

  no not hardly.. you smoking the wrong peace pipe

• Anonymous

  Bangor city council overriding the United States of Americas 1st ammendment?

• Anonymous

  You need to sit down and figure out the realistic destruction that the global economy has done to America. Our government and all of its branches have failed the American people. The greed of our politicians, our financial institutions and our corporations has cost us our jobs, our way of life and our children’s future. By securing the ignorance of the people through deception and manipulating the laws of our country, our government has destroyed what was once a great nation. Our politicians are bought and paid for by special interest and big business. They do the bidding of those who pay for their vote without concern for the consequences that such actions have on the American people or our nation. Our government has betrayed the United States of America that they have sworn to protect. No greater treason has ever been committed ! The people who are against the occupy movement in essence are just paving the way, for the loss of the rights that our forefathers who’s intelligent foresight envisioned.                             

• Anonymous

  Kevin,  truenative is trying nicely to say that people that don’t agree with the OWS tactics (namely you and me and the other 500 people who have thus far voted in the attached poll), are stupid. See? Not enlightened, dumb, brain dead. All things they have accused me of during this flurry of stories and postings over the last several days. They are superior intellects, can’t we understand that?

• Anonymous

  I don’t think of Jonestown as consensus! That was mind control and that’s not happening here. I know the idea of consensus sounds far-fetched. It did work in NY, with very large groups. The average number for here at the meetings is about twenty and that is workable. And there are working groups that bring recommendations to the bigger group. Once I saw younger members of the group push back against a decision made willy nilly without process by one person and they did it very well and they changed the decision. Everybody gets the chance to make their point of view known.
  The ‘leader’ issue is interesting. The Daily Show did a really good piece on the ‘uptown elites’ of OWS and the ‘downtown’ drumbeater/hippie types. Both had disparaging things to say about the ‘other’. Human beings seem to not like the ‘other’ and will defend strongly against the ‘other’. But aren’t we all ‘other’ to somebody else?

  The Occupy Movement is, I think, a very strong beginning to, hopefully (from my point of view) working to find and elect people to office that will truly work for the people. The System is now so fully rigged by the money holders it’s tough to know if Americans can find a way out of the mess the Oligarchy has created for us ‘regular’ people. But for the future of our children, it’s important to try and change things.

• Anonymous

  How is Free Speech being negated by requiring a group to apply for an event permit? A permit that the city has stated the will grant and continue to grant as long as it is applied for?

• http://twitter.com/queenrissa Marissa Lopez

  ” Higher taxes are not the solution.  If you confiscated
  every penny owned by 1000 billionaires, it would only eliminate $1T in
  debt.”
   You can’t do math, unless you mean that billionaires only have a penny. If the top 1% paid the same tax rate they did during the Regan era, we wouldn’t be anywhere near the economic mess we are in now. 

• Anonymous

  Duplicate comment removed.

• Conrad Cook

  I’ve crossed paths with Mr. Willette, and he seemed to me like an honest and very fair man.

  On the other hand, if I agree with you about myself I’ve just overstepped the image of my humility, so I guess I’ll have to let that go.  With regret.

• Anonymous

  Logistics, security our outreach? Sounds like you have an org chart somewhere. Where can I consult it? A membership roster, maybe?

  My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that you can’t produce such things — or worse, you won’t, because it makes things more complex when you try to claim exemptions from certain requirements, etc.

• Anonymous

  I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. He knows what he talks about, and we won’t ever see him leaning on his Presidential TelePrompTer, that’s for sure!

• Anonymous

  It is a reflection of the way the community feels about OWS. Why is that not valid? Because it doesn’t bode well for you? The poll may not be scientific, but certainly a good cross section of Northern, Central and Eastern Maine reads the BDN…?

• Conrad Cook

  Yeh, well…  when your Parliamentary process is open to anyone who walks in off the street, and people work only as unpaid volunteers, and moreover the ideological basis of the group is against authority per se…  then “organization” is not something you’re often accused of.

  I call us a disorganization, in fact.

• Anonymous

  Careful what you say about others, there, smartypants. Who’s the one who can’t do math? 1,000 x $1 Billion = $1 Trillion.

  Take every penny from 1,000 people who have $1 Billion each, and you’ve taken $1 Trillion.

  Good example of the intellectual divide between those on the one side, and those on the other.

• Conrad Cook

  Oh, I do.  Mornings and night, part-time.  I’m currently occupying their free wi-fi, in fact.

  One of the major advantages of corporations is the clean, well-lit place with free wi-fi.  If I ever meet those pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtains that conservatives claim are really organizing us –

  –shows what fools those conservatives are, to imagine that we’re “organized” in any sense of the word–

  – if I ever meet such Ozian Wizards, such puppetmasters, such leaders of our leaderless movement, I will urge them to use their secret mind-control powers to create a post-anti-corporate populist uprozen future which keeps the free wi-fi.

  I also like the Big Macs.  It’s just the corporate bailouts and massive unemployment I don’t like, really.

• Anonymous

  You are extremely good at name calling. Where did you train for that? Your rationale falls flatter than a ploye and you revert to name calling.

• Anonymous

  The statement that should have been made is that if the entire top 5% was taxed at 100% of their income in any given year it would only equal $1 trillion.  We would still have to borrow $500 billion dollars annually to maintain our current annual deficit spending.  Much less the projected growth in future years.

• Anonymous

  The so-called “mobs” are nonviolent protesters with noble goals.  Here they are being callously and brutally treated by police.  The video has gone viral, and the police in question have been suspended:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/uc-davis-pepper-spraying-raises-questions-about-role-of-police/2011/11/20/gIQAOr8dfN_story.html?hpid=z3

• Anonymous

  Perhaps a great number of people who voted feel the same way that I do.  I agree with some of their points (angry about the bailouts, the policies that allowed undeserving people to take huge mortgages, classification of corporations as people) but do not at all agree with their tactics.  My vote that says they should get a permit doesn’t say they should go away, just that they should play by the same rules the rest of us would have to.  Isn’t that one of their messages – to have everyone abiding by the same rules?  Hypocritical to have that as one of their messages while refusing to do so. 

• Anonymous

  Here you are, in an OWS  forum–they are occupying your mind, even as you deny it.

• Anonymous

  Here’s a poll showing that Americans overwhelmingly want more taxes on the rich, and that recently OWS was more popular than the Tea Party:

  http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2011/11/occupy-wall-street-favor-fading.html

• cfd130

  Lets try occupying a job and becoming productive members of our country where we help each other out rather than protesting to see what more or additional goverment benefits you can get.  I would love to see how many protesters are receiving some sort of goverment hand out or want one

• Anonymous

  The BDN online polls are subject to people voting multiple times, just like these forums are subject to people giving multiple ‘likes’ to the same post. The internet is often used in sneaky unethical ways:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-it-comes-to-e-mailed-political-rumors-conservatives-beat-liberals/2011/11/17/gIQAyycZWN_story.html

• Anonymous

  Where is your proof of this assertation?  Were you privy to all mortgages signed?  I was privy to one – mine.  It was not intentionally deceptive.  It spelled out exactly what we were getting and exactly what was expected.

• Anonymous

  I’m sure, for example, that George Washington smelled when fighting for justice against British tyranny.  I’m sure the civil rights protesters in the 60′s, under the hot southern sun, perspired.  So what?

  Even if there was a smell, which I haven’t noticed on visiting OWS, it would be a sign of their tough and continuous struggle for justice.  To talk about ‘smell’ when our country’s freedom is at state is to be in denial.

• Conrad Cook

  We have no substantial quarrel with the city of Bangor.  We’re protesting the bailout and the dysfunctional political structure that creates ever-growing corporate welfare.  And this is what the conservatives can’t understand:  We DON’T want welfare.  We want JOBS: good, meaningful jobs that a man can support his family with.

  I agree that there’s a danger of our being seen as lawless.  But the real problem is confusion about what would happen if we were to apply for a permit.

  We have been advised by a right-to-free-speech activist that, if we apply for an EVENT permit, we legally stop being an ASSEMBLY, and lose our 1st amendment rights.  In my belief, this is (a) untrue, and (b) a deliberate attempt to create conflict between Occupy and Bangor, so that 1st amendment activists have a legal basis, a pretext, to sue the city and thereby advance their own agenda.

  THAT is the real story, in my opinion:  the way that 1st amendment activists end up running protest groups into the ground in order to futher their own agendas.

• Anonymous

  If the Bush tax cuts were eliminated for the wealthy, it would save trillions over a decade.

  And the point about taxes being much higher on the wealthy under Reagan is smart and valid.  Cutting taxes on the wealthy, over the decades, has only made them richer while the rest of us sink.

• Anonymous

  If you feel assaulted by bumper stickers then you must suffer a stroke when you see a billboard.  (I wouldn’t drive if I were you.)

• Anonymous

  If the Bush tax cuts were eliminated for the wealthy, it would save trillions over a decade.

  And the point about taxes being much higher on the wealthy under Reagan is smart and valid.  Cutting taxes on the wealthy, over the decades, has only made them richer while the rest of us sink. 

  Even Republicans are now split on taxing the wealthy:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gop-supercommittee-members-tax-plan-gives-party-an-identity-crisis/2011/11/16/gIQAjdpdSN_story.html

• Anonymous

  I set my watch by the BDN poll results.  (or should we say “tr0ll results.”)

• Anonymous

  It’s a reflection of the fact that online polls are easy to manipulate.  Not long ago a national right wing website told all its readers to ‘like’ a certain BDN article.  The sneaky unethical online behavior is sadly common in the GOP:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-it-comes-to-e-mailed-political-rumors-conservatives-beat-liberals/2011/11/17/gIQAyycZWN_story.html

• Anonymous

  Signs are a form of a assault–how ridiculous can it get?  lol

• Anonymous

  Signs as a form of assault??  How ridiculous can it get …

• Anonymous

  In this photo spokesman Chris contemplates the numerous executive decisions he must make such as where his next meal will be coming from and a nice warm bath sounds good right about now.

• Anonymous

  Thank you for this wise statement.  It is obvious to open-minded people that OWS is not simply looking for a handout.  You’re brave and beautiful souls.  Thank you for what you are doing, and for weathering all the verbal attacks (and sometimes physical attacks).  You’re heroes in my eyes.

• Anonymous

  First of all, I advise you not to lace your posts with insults.  Undecided voters notice this, and it usually turns them off.  It also shows me you aren’t so much interested in real debate as getting out your irrational anger.

  See the movie, Inside Job, the Oscar-winning documentary.  Or keep insulting me.  I’m not going to debate with a baby.

• Anonymous

  It shows that support is trending in the wrong direction (from your point of view).

• Anonymous

  Would it be reasonable if you had to re-apply for your 2nd Amendment rights every three days?

• Anonymous

  Here’s one problem with the mortgages, which were written in dense bureaucratese:

  —————-

  Of particular concern, people with poor credit and low incomes were sold
  so-called subprime mortgages that were deceptively cheap at the outset,
  sometimes requiring no down payments, but whose annual interest charges
  skyrocketed in later years. The availability of mortgage finance drove
  housing prices ever higher, and when they collapsed, beginning in
  roughly 2006, the growing amount of bad debt that resulted caused a
  collapse of Wall Street and then the global economy.
  ————————

  http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/apr/28/wall-street-leviathan/?pagination=false

• Anonymous

  You are saying the OWS free speech is the same thing as a citizen owning a rocket launcher!  Come on!!  It’s a ridiculous analogy

• Anonymous

  You’re saying that OWS free speech is like someone driving around with a  .50 caliber machine gun?!?

  Come back to reality, please.

• Anonymous

  lynne,  don’t worry the Maine Peoples’ Alliance will most likely give their supporters marching orders to vote NO.  

• Anonymous

  The movement’s only 2 months old, fluctuations are typical in young movements.  The recent attack on OWS by police, which went viral, is probably generating more sympathy and support among college age folks:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/uc-davis-pepper-spraying-raises-questions-about-role-of-police/2011/11/20/gIQAOr8dfN_story.html?hpid=z3

• Anonymous

  HuffPost just revealed a lobbying firm memo warning the big Wall Street banks that OWS was a threat to them.  The lobbying firm is prestigious, and if they are warning their employers, the banks, it is surely serious:

  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/lobbying-firm-occupy-wall-street_n_1102310.html

• Anonymous

  The reason they should not get a permit is that they don’t need a permit.  A permit granted by the City can be revoked or can expire. To apply for a permit would be to define the assembly as an event which it is not. It is an ongoing political discussion with others in a public park which does not need a permit.

• Anonymous

  The grounds of the Bangor Library have been allowed to be hijacked  by the thought police.   Barbara McDade and the board of directors think we all need to be educated to their way of thinking.  I guarantee  she and her board would have never allowed any other group (especially if it was pro life) to take over the grounds like she has OB.  It is time for her to be removed as the director of the library.

• Conrad Cook

  I think we need, whether liberal or conservative (we have both at Occupy Bangor), to educate ourselves broadly on what people are saying.  That includes listening carefully to people like Limbaugh.

  We’re not trying to rub it in the face of city authorities, nor are we playing games in the distinction between events and assemblies.  We have stuck to this (utterly false) distinction out of FEAR of surrendering our 1st amendment rights.  We are AFRAID of surrendering our first amendment rights because of the free advice we’ve gotten from a 1st amendment rights activist (as I’ve written in that other thread). 

  The reason she’s given us this bad advice is another topic:  the point here is that I think every American reading this can think, “Yeah, I bet that’s possible:  you could accidentally waive your 1st amendment right to assemble without even knowing you’re doing it.” 

  And that is profoundly sad, and shows up what kind of shape America is in, as a consequence of having a legal structure that is built first and last to serve corporations and keep the 99% in its place.

• Anonymous

  So, can he come to your house?

• Anonymous

  Because they do not need a permit and the City is trying to start the precedence and put in the public mind that they do. These people need to stand their ground about that. They DO NOT NEED a permit for assembling in the park daily and forever.

• Anonymous

  The “event” permit has nothing to do with “Free Speech”. If the OWS the Bangor Edition doesn’t apply for it no government official is going to place a “gag” in any persons mouth. They only thing that happens is the “tents” (tarps) must come down. The “tents” are not protected Free Speech.

• Anonymous

  I love the satire. It goes to the heart of everything very quickly.

• Anonymous

  Your statue of Abe Lincoln hardly would be the same as some sticks with a tarp over it. A statue is a permanent structure.

• Anonymous

  Your not being “honest”. The permit is not required for people to assembly. The permit is required for “tents” (tarps).

• Anonymous

  Boy it took you a long time to come up with a response.

  Spruce,

  Question #1 – Do you believe in unlimited Free Speech? Yes or No and if you want to add your thought process that would be OK to.

  Question #2 – Do you believe any of the Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights should be limited? Yes or No and if your answer is Yes which ones and why.

  Question #3 – If you believe that Free Speech cannot be limited, how do you justify placing limits on any of the Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights including the 2nd Amendment?

• Anonymous

  Then it would be okay by you if you were permitted to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights but only under unfavorable conditions.

• Anonymous

  Boy it took you a long time to come up with a response.

  Spruce,

  Question #1 – Do you believe in unlimited Free Speech? Yes or No and if you want to add your thought process that would be OK to.

  Question #2 – Do you believe any of the Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights should be limited? Yes or No and if your answer is Yes which ones and why.

  Question #3 – If you believe that Free Speech cannot be limited, how do you justify placing limits on any of the Rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights including the 2nd Amendment?

• Anonymous

  “The City of Bangor has been remarkably patient with us and I think ought
  to get a great deal of credit for their commitment to democratic ideals
  like the 1st amendment.  They have had several opportunities to take a
  hard line toward us, and have not.  I personally hope we get our act
  together before their patience wears thin.”

  The City is not the King and they are not the Principal. This whole part bothers me to read because it sounds like the 1st Amendment is just a nice thought. It is the LAW. The City is supposed to be serving the public, not the other way around. It is inattention of the public that allowed this to go so far. We need to wake up and take responsibility for our City and its elected and hired officials. Attending meetings of the City Council to be informed of the City’s business is a start.

• Anonymous

  Who are you trying to fool? Of course that’s the image they’d like to project, and here may be a few of them with actual jobs and who are hard workers, but most of them don’t fall into that category. Hard working people with jobs don’t camp out and protest for months at a time instead of going to work, or it wouldn’t be long before they would be unemployed. 

  I think they have a valid point about excessive income disparity. It does seem a little absurd that top execs, even those who screw up, are paid many millions and get large bonuses while so many workers have their pay cut and pensions taken away, but camping out in a park isn’t going to fix that.

  The people who overpaid for houses they couldn’t afford, many hoping to strike it rich when the priced doubled again, have only themselves to blame and should stand up and be responsible for the agreements they signed, and if they think the agreement was unfair, they should resolve to read the fine print next time.  The government should never have been using banks for social engineering purposes, forcing them to make loans to people who obviously couldn’t afford to pay them back. But the OWS types make no criticism of those lefty pols who initiated this misguided policy that played a huge role in the burst of the housing bubble, only the banks that took part in it.

  It seems to be just another extreme lefty group trying to get attention, left over 60′s hippy types enjoying a last hurrah, combined with children of our more recent culture of entitlement longing for even more of a nanny state so they can avoid taking responsibility for themselves. Soon, they’ll either declare victory or get bored, and move on to their next cause to protest,  just like they have so many times before. It’s a very big waste of their time and it would be so much simpler for them if they’d just learn a skill and get a job, just like the REAL hard working, patriotic, Americans do.

• Anonymous

  That structure is now a political sign. Do you disapprove a political sign on public property? Now that will be inconvenient won’t it? Maybe all political signs need a permit because I hate to look at them.

• Anonymous

  lol, like you wouldn’t be spotted from 200 paces

• Anonymous

  Spruce, What you are suggesting it to give the Government even more money to squander, Is that what you really want.. The Governemnts Bucket is full of holes and it doesn’t matter how much money the taxpayers put in it, there will never be enough…  You cannot fill a bucket with water that is full of holes and expect it to hold water…

• Anonymous

  Anyone who did their homework prior to signing a mortgage (which is HIGHLY advisable) would have known to stay away from ARM (adjustable rate mortgage) and go with a fixed rate mortgage.  The problem is people were blinded by the joy that someone was willing to give them money and didn’t do their homework.

• Anonymous

  Hey look over there!!!!!!! Magic Man….

• Conrad Cook

  For the most part, Occupiers are for going back to Reagan-era, 1980 tax levels.

  You may remember — I don’t know if you’re an old guy like me, who remembers Reagan — the tax cuts to the super-rich were sold to the American people on a “trickle-down” basis.  Tax the rich more lightly and they’ll have more spending money, which they’ll blow on items like obscene ice sculptures —

  –wait, I’m thinking of Enron for some reason.  Sorry –

  –which they’ll spend on JOBS, Reagan told us, and thus the tax cut will “trickle-down” to the man on the street.

  Well, we all see how that went.

  It’s similar reasoning to the corporate bailout of banks that made bad business decisions and, by free market reasoning, deserved to fail.  “If we bail these corporations out with BILLIONS of dollars in taxpayer money,” our congressmen said, “then banks will have the money to provide credit to the man on the street, so we’ll avoid financial gridlock and the resulting economic death spiral.”

  But in practice, the CEOs of those companies put ALL of that bailout money into the pockets of the super-rich.  This was a BAD business decisions that hurt their own companies and damaged the economy even more. 

  The consequence of this BAD business decision was that the managers who made that decision were given MILLIONS of dollars in *bonuses*, that’s on top of their million dollar salaries, and Uncle Sam, in the form of *both* Democrats and Republicans, organized ANOTHER BAILOUT.

  Similarly, when the “trickle-down” tax cut to the rich did not work, but (in conjunction with corporate welfare measures) depressed the economy further, politicians, lobbyists and lawmakers said, “Gee, you know what?  We need to give the rich another tax break.”

• Anonymous

  They are plain and simple communist. They believe in the redistribution of wealth and for the government to satisfy their every whim and need. They need to move to Cuba, China, or maybe North Korea if it is so bad here. Everyone I know works hard and gets by just fine,they made responsible decisions and have learned skills and trades that have sustained them through the good times and bad. The time has come to put an end to the madness,it is not wall street that decided your fate that was you.

• Anonymous

  I am pretty sure the only violence I have seen (in the news) at the Occupy gatherings is committed by police on the passive protesters.

• Anonymous

  Noble goals are a good thing, and I agree with much of what the occupiers seem to be fed up with , such as lack of opportunity due to exportation of good, skill-based jobs. But, I can’t help but feel that there is s great misunderstanding between both sides of the argument with not much middle ground being given up (pun intended).  Two months in, we get the message. Now it is time to begin the dialogue. This is where things will get tough and very painful, but will be absolutely necessary. If OWS endures, yet becomes more isolated for various reasons, then it will become like a compost pile that gets too hot and catches fire, much like other violent revolutions. Some of you will say “Right On!” But, the consequences would be devestating to all of us, not just the 31% (again, pun intended).

• Anonymous

  You are now permitted to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights but only if you don’t use a tent or a tarp. You can open carry but only if you don’t stand under a tent or a tarp. If caught you may be tear-gassed or pepper sprayed or, because you are carrying a lethal weapon, shot.

• Anonymous

  When the Occupy Bangor folks meet their responsibilities to the community by honoring their agreement with the city, then they will have earned the right to be taken seriously.  Citizenship is not just about rights. It is also about obligations.

• Conrad Cook

  Well sure the first amendment is the law.

  But it’s also the law that if you want to have a fire and canopies in a park, you need a permit.  And we, the Occupy movement, should be expected to apply for and receive a permit just like anyone else.

  The only reason we’re not is the artificially-produced FEAR we have that applying for a permit will effectively surrender our 1st amendment rights.  And from what I know, this is entirely unfounded:  it’s malarkey.

  But it’s malarkey that was given us, in the form of rotten advice, by 1st amendment activists in order to create a conflict between Occupy Bangor and the City of Bangor.  Free lawyers.  You get what you pay for.

• Conrad Cook

  William, the trick is that it’s not about whether Occupy “is” an event or “is” an assembly.Rather, it’s about whether Occupy should be *governed* by the event code or the assembly code.  And the truth is, according to the law, we should be governed by BOTH.If you want to drive your car legally, you need collision insurance AND a driver’s license.  One for the vehicle, one for the driver.  Telling the cop, “Hey, I’m the driver, not the car” won’t get you out of the legal and sensible requirement that you have insurance.
   
  We at Occupy are having a hard time getting that.  We’re actually *demanding* that the city issue a permit for us to assemble, which is to say we’re demanding that the city *restrict* our right to assemble.  We’re utterly confused on this one.

• Anonymous

  Excellent, True Native. Where would we be if the rabble rousers in Boston in the 1770s had said, “Oh, sorry, we won’t convene in the square because we don’t have the express permission of the King.”
  Why do you hate the Occupiers so much, BDN forum? I say, good for them for actually doing SOMETHING, even if it is only freezing their butts off in the name of a cause. Everyone posting here would concede that our country requires some big policy changes to pull us out of our economic crisis, national debt, failing education system, etc.–even if we can’t agree on what those policy changes ought to be.

• Anonymous

  People weren’t “blinded by joy”–they were manipulated by tricky salespeople, deceptive advertising and dense pages of bureaucratese that made finding the truth highly unlikely.

  For example, one couple I know was qualified for a prime mortgage but was tricked into buying a subprime mortgage instead.  They were older people.

  It was cruel and vicious and mean–and then Wall Street dropped home equities by 30% due to its reckless trading in bundled mortgage derivatives.

  People really need to see the movie, Inside Job.

• Anonymous

  Ironically, Wall St. was once such a center of free assembly among our founding fathers. As I read it, ever so humbly, is that I may congregate with whomever I wish and talk about whatever I like with the people I choose. A lot like this forum here, only you don’t have to put up with the fact that I’m still unshowered and in my jammies, or the awful mess my house is right now.

• Anonymous

  You are watching.

• Anonymous

  Your strategy of trying to compare free speech to other rights is flawed, because each right is very different in jurisprudence and has a different precedent history in the Supreme Court.

  The bottom line is:  the Founders did not put a time limit on free speech, nor did they make it hostage to local permits—and they realized that challenging tyranny was a prolonged, diffciult process.

• Anonymous

  *Occasionally*, you come up with something I agree with. :-)

  But only on this very limited point me thinks today.

• Anonymous

  If that is what you think that is your right. I have never said any of that. I merely believe that our educational system is failing when Americans care more about getting a permit than the issues at hand.

• Anonymous

  Think back a few weeks to pre-election time.  Did you see political signs on public property?  Yes on most streets.  Did you see any in parks?  No.

• Anonymous

  Your strategy of trying to compare free speech to other rights is
  flawed, because each right is very different in jurisprudence and has a
  different precedent history in the Supreme Court.  For instance, you try to compare OWS free speech to someone owning a truck-mounted machine gun, which is totally ridiculous and incommensurate.

  The bottom line
  is:  the Founders did not put a time limit on free speech, nor did they
  make it hostage to local permits—and they realized that challenging
  tyranny was a prolonged, difficult process. 

• Anonymous

  If he knows what he talks about then why does he say that this is a group of smelly people who need to take baths?

• Anonymous

  The dialogue will fizzle if OWS packs up and leaves now.  They haven’t even begun to tap into their potential effectiveness.  At two months old, they can start contemplating, for example, running candidates for office.

  To use my own metaphor, they are like a fire of insight that is keeping the debate hot and bright.

• Anonymous

  I just checked it. They are more like the 15%,85% thinks they should move on.

• Anonymous

  Thanks!

• Steve Anderson

  Yeah, it’s going in the ashbin of history, right along with the American Revolution, the Civil Rights movement, the Gay Rights movement, Suffrage, environmentalism, Ghandi’s attempt to free India, the fight against Nazism, Anti-Apartheid, feminism, and Abolitionism. All abject failures of progressivism. 

• Anonymous

  I wouldn’t want to stay in a tent in November.

• Steve Anderson

  Mock them all you want, but they’re the best hope our country has and they’re going nowhere. Lots of people say they support America, but the Occupiers are actually doing something to help save it. 

• Steve Anderson

  As I’m sure you’ve heard before, only a third of the American colonists supported independence. A third were neutral, and a third were against it. As I’m sure you also know, that fact didn’t exactly stop the Founding Fathers. 

• Anonymous

  I am in complete agreement with you about the derivatives fiasco.  You give one example of the old couple…I could give you a hundred examples of people that should never have taken mortgages, but they did.  Then they bought huge dumpy houses that they couldn’t afford to maintain because they bought into the flawed idea that one can be measured by the size of their house.  Next they called on me to come in and spend tax payer money to bring those houses up to standards.  That whole process is flawed, wrong and appalling.

• Anonymous

  Thanks!

• Anonymous

  The same people are not there 24/7. They come and go in between work, school and family. Some don’t work but they are retired or disabled. Others come after school, after work, weekends. People who are employed don’t all work day shifts. They work at varying times and days. 

  The OWS are very critical of both parties, feel that both parties are to blame and many have lost all respect for the two party system. They speak out against all politicians from both sides of the isle.

  You are fixated on OWS supporters not working. You are repeating stereotypes and generalizations that have no basis in fact. Those who have done their research realize that it is made up of hardworking American citizens from all ages many of whom have obtained skills, are a gainfully employed and are using their free time to try to make this country a better place.

• Anonymous

  So you agree the “tents” are not protected “Free Speech”. Thank you.

• Anonymous

  “I am currently unable to take a peaceful and quiet stroll through a park that was intended for use by all. Where is the ACLU in this blatant and sustained transgression of my rights?”

  Bingo! Why of why do the Occupiers not see the irony in claiming to be for “the rights of the 99%” while at the same time they are blatantly destroying the simple and unobtrusive right to enjoy public places for the 99% … It’s extremely arrogant and blink of the Occupiers to think that they REALLY represent 99% of ordinary citizens.

• Steve Anderson

  Not necessarily stupid, but certainly poorly informed. If people understood what was going on in our country, OWS would have overwhelming support. As it is, the vast majority of Americans do support the goals of the movement, if not the protest itself. 

• Anonymous

  I pretty much agree with your post, and I think the American citizen, in general, gets a shame of the blame–but the bankers at the top on Wall Street get more.  Two were recently convicted of crimes before the bubble burst, and even Fox News called them out for cheating veterans:

  http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/a-stunning-fall-from-grace-for-a-star-executive/

  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048914/Raj-Rajaratnam-convicted-Wall-Streets-biggest-insider-trading-scandal-jailed.html

  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/05/lawsuit-claims-banks-cheated-veterans-on-mortgage-loan-fees/

• Steve Anderson

  That’s not self-importantce you see there. That’s patriotism. These protesters aren’t there for themselves. They’re there for their country, for the neighbors, for their children’s future. If anything, the Occupiers are selfless, not self-important. 

• Anonymous

  Spruce you final have written something which is historically and constitutionally correct.

  Free Speech does have limits. One cannot yell fire in a crowed theater. One cannot incite to riot. One cannot libel or slander. One can be required to obtain a parade permit before marching down the middle of the road. One can be required to obtain a permit before erecting “tents”. Child pornography is not protected free speech either.

  So now that you agree that reasonable limits ARE permitted, how is requiring a permit for erecting “tents” unreasonable? The government is not removing the protesters from the property. The government is not placing a ball gag in the mouth of any protester. They are free to stay in the park between the posted times and bang on drums, protest, chant, sing, hold signs, etc…every day of the week and twice on Sunday if they wish. But they cannot erect a “tent” without a permit.

• Anonymous

  The hundreds of thousands of people all over this state and country who a re participating in this movement or supporting it are employed and work very hard. Many work two or three jobs to survive. The movement is not made up primarily of smart ass teenagers or lazy whiners. There is no evidence that this movement promotes drug use or that camps are full of weed and heroin. 

  The people that have those electronic devices bought and paid for them with their hard earned money.  

  In New York the other day there were 30,000 people from all age groups and walks of life. The paraplegic who came to the park is a lazy whiner? The blind people that walked are lazy and smelly? The people marching with crutches, canes and walkers are lazy whiners? The large group of veterans are lazy whiners? Or the 90 year old people who came to the march? The union members lazy? Teachers there? Doctors there?

  Frankly the lazy whiners are those who have not researched the movement but yet they spread misinformation.

• Steve Anderson

  Newt is a slimeball politician, and when I say “politician,” I mean that in the most pejorative, think-of-every-nasty-thing-that-comes-to-mind-when-you-hear-the-word-”politician” sense of the word. He’s greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, philandering, power-hungry, hypocritical and mean. He’s the man who wrote the GOP’s handbook on mudslinging and partisan nastiness.

  An insult from Newt should be considered a great compliment.

• Anonymous

  Has the city moved to remove any person from the park because OWS the Bangor Edition does not have a permit? NO

  And the city has stated that they will issue the permit and reissue the permit as long as a permit is filled out.

  The permit has NOTHING to do with Free Speech. It is about the “tents” that were erected without a permit.

• Anonymous

  There is a big difference between a small business and a multi-billion dollar corporation. Small businesses struggle so because of the large corporations who take away their business or pay politicians to craft laws that but a burden on Americans who want to open and run small businesses. I heard one gentleman talk about the fact that small businesses are having a hard time getting loans to keep their businesses running even though they have for the past 40 years. 

• Steve Anderson

  Yeah, because reader polls are always SO ACCURATE. Did you not take a stats class in high school?

• Anonymous

  Exactly the cards are stacked against small businesses because of larger corporations and because the politicians who are paid by the corporations shape laws that benefit the large corporations and penalize small businesses.

• Anonymous

  Not at all.  The first amendment doesn’t protect camping, fires, eating, or smoking.  It protects SPEECH.  If you are to rely on the Constitution, understand it.  To understand it, read the cases interpreting it.  I know your probably to busy so I did it for you.

  “We have recognized that the “First Amendment does not guarantee access
  to property simply because it is owned or controlled by the government.”
  United States Post al Service v. Council of Greenburgh Civic Assns., supra,
  at 129. In addition to time, place, and manner regulations, the State
  may reserve the forum for its intended purposes, communicative or
  otherwise, as long as the regulation on speech is reasonable and not an
  effort to suppress expression merely because public officials oppose the
  speaker’s view. 453 U.S. at 131, n. 7. As we have stated on several
  occasions, “`”[t]he State, no less than a private owner of property, has
  power to preserve the property under its control for the use to which
  it is lawfully dedicated.”‘” Id. at 129-130, quoting Greer v. Spock, 424 U.S. 828, 836 (1976), in turn quoting Adderley v. Florida, 385 U.S. 39, 47 (1966).”

  The U. S. Supreme Court, 460 U.S. 37 (1987)

  You can look it up on your i phone, i pad, laptop or what ever else you have with you should  you ever  exit the games your playing on it.

• Steve Anderson

  Oh no, these people are expressing ideas that upset you! What an outrage! This man has had his feeling hurt by a bunch of mean liberals saying things he doesn’t agree with! When will it end?

• Anonymous

  Letsbe:  See citation above to the ACTUAL protections and limits of the First Amendment as decided by the Supreme Court.   You’re simply wrong.  The Constitution and its enumerated rights is far more subtle and layered than  bumper sticker philosophers like you seem to comprehend.  At least try to understand that which you rely so completely upon.

• Steve Anderson

  While you’re busy feeling proud of yourself for making a living on your own, these people have given up their time and effort to save their country. They have much more reason to be proud of what they’ve done than many of the rest of us. 

• Steve Anderson

  Banks have a responsibility to not to trick customers into getting into things they can’t afford. That fact ought to be obvious to anyone with the slightest understanding of ethics. 

• Steve Anderson

  The only spoiled brats in this situation are those who mock OWS. 

• Steve Anderson

  You really don’t know anything at all about OWS, do you? Do you have any idea how silly you sound?

• Conrad Cook

  I live at camp, and I’ve never seen dirty socks on the bench. 

  Even so, I’ll put word around.

• Conrad Cook

  Nonsense.  I suspect she’s pretty irritated with us, in fact.  She just happens to believe in the right to free speech.

  Librarians are funny that way.

• Anonymous

  “The so-called “mobs” are nonviolent protesters with noble goals.”

  I wonder if those goals include assessing their lot in life and taking action to improve themselves through education, a drug-free lifestyle and a little self-motivation to find a good paying job. It can be done, but it’s  so much less work to just advocate for “redistributing the wealth” others have earned.

  “Give me some of their wealth so I don’t have to take responsibility for my own screwed up life!”

   

• Anonymous

  You have the right to free speech – not free occupation of a public space.  Your rights stop when they interfere with my rights.

• Anonymous

  Perhaps if Reagan Clinton & The Bush’s hadn’t taken 10′s of million off the tax roles that might have helped the math as well. As it is as a result of our government largesse about 50% of employed people according to the IRS pay no tax.

• Anonymous

  These tents should have to meet cold weather requirements and wind tests. withstand -4o deg. and gale force wind like mount wash or Everest. Sleeping bags have to be rated -40 deg. if not they need to purchase rated equipment and it must be made in the USA. The public will be paying the medical bills for their ignorance. 

• Anonymous

  I bet she would never allow a tea party or pro life group camp out on the library lawn.  She believes in your free speech.

• Anonymous

  Why did the Occupier cross the road?
   Because his Mom called and said, “It’s time to come home, honey.”Because some radicals thought “free love” meant “unsolicited surprise sex”Because three homeless guys were occupying his tent “Help, police…”Because a few “more-equal-than-thous” (aka, Party people) appropriated [sic, smoked up] his stach for the Greater Good™ — he had to score another bag of kind bud Because the police car looked like a port-o-john.

• Anonymous

  Like obeying the law that everyone else follows.

• Anonymous

  Do you really want me to post up the MANY videos of violence, window smashing and chaos committed by the OWS movement? Please. Bangor might be peaceful now, but it could go the way other cities have when the anarchists in the movement join the fun here.

• Anonymous

  If you had no option but to read something offensive it is a form of visual assault. The fact that the park is full of signs and posters which hold a political view you find valid does not mean others do or like reading them. You claim the park is open for public use and that people will find a welcoming situation there. I disagree. People who may not agree with your groups politics are now staying away from the enjoyment that could be had there because it has been taken over for political reasons. Too bad some are too narrow minded to see this and are blinded to how they are actually harming the civil life of the city.

• Anonymous

  No, I believe in this case that tents protect those who wish to exercise their right of free speech and peaceable assembly.  What’s next?  No umbrellas or blankets, or cold-weather clothing?  You have seen all the gloaters here saying wait until it’s 20 degrees out, etc.  The City is attempting to stifle them and force them out by unreasonably and inhumanely exposing them to harsh weather conditions, potentially causing them harm.

• Anonymous

  Most of the people involved in Bangor and hundreds of thousands of Americans who support this movement are educated, have taken action to improve themselves, live a drug-free live style and have jobs. They are not advocating to redistribute wealth. They want money out of politics and they want this generation of Americans to have the same standard of living that their parents enjoyed. 

  You are repeating stereotypes and generalizations that are not based in fact. Please get better educated on this topic. You are assuming that because there was a drug culture in marches and protests in the 60s and 70s that this movement is also saturated with drugs and that is not the case. 

• Anonymous

  Again..Inside Job=Propaganda.

• Anonymous

  Remember the old saying, “You can take that to the bank!”  How times have changed when banks can no longer be trusted.

• Anonymous

  I shows that the people from the BDN message board feel that it is more important to obtain a permit than freedom and speech and assembly. Since the movement has grown so far, so fast is evidence that the trend is positive in support for this movement.

• Anonymous

  You seem to be terrible at recognizing propaganda.

• Anonymous

  You sound like the thought police.

• Anonymous

  I was watching a series on the revolutionary war and it mentioned that very thing.

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  “The big point for us is we’re an assembly,” said Occupy Bangor
  spokesman Lawrence Reichard. “We think if we did take out an event
  permit, we would be conceding our position that we’re an assembly, not
  an event.

  Last time I checked, and assembly is an event. Event: “An observable occurrence ,phenomenon or an extraordinary occurrence”. Whether you try and spout “Free Speech” or First Amendment rights Rhetoric, it is still a gathering of people in a PUBLIC VENUE, which happens to be a park, which happens to be ruled by regulations, which happen to be being broken as we speak. Follow the rules like everyone else.

• Anonymous

  Whether you consider it a visual assault or not it is still protected free speech.

• Anonymous

  Wow real creative response.

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  I think me and a bunch of my friends are going to apply for a Permit for
  this coming weekend, for a birthday barbeque, then have them all
  arrested when they refuse to leave. The park isn’t that big and I have a
  LOT of friends. After-all, we will be the ones that LEGALLY, has the
  right to use that park at that time and if they are interfering with
  that then out they go.

• Anonymous

  Tr0ll alert!

• Anonymous

  I personally feel that Glenn Beck shows signs of being mentally unbalanced or mentally ill. Frankly he scares me because he promotes hatred every day and he encourages people to stock pile guns and ammunition. It is just a matter of time before one of his followers does something horrid when you are being brainwashed by someone like him.

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  Event: “An observable occurrence ,phenomenon or an extraordinary
  occurrence”. Whether you try and spout “Free Speech” or First Amendment
  rights Rhetoric, it is still a gathering of people in a PUBLIC VENUE,
  which happens to be a park, which happens to be ruled by regulations,
  which happen to be being broken as we speak. Follow the rules like
  everyone else.

• Anonymous

  They are patriotic American citizens who care very deeply for the future of this country. They do not advocate redistribution of wealth or the government entitlement. They want good paying jobs so that American citizens can have the same standard of living as our parents. 

  The majority of Occupy supporters have learned skills and trades. Many have two or three jobs in order to provide for their families in the same manner that their parents enjoyed. You are fixated on things that are not true and then you spread the misinformation.

• Anonymous

  The majority of Occupy supporters all over this country do occupy jobs and are productive members of society. Many have to work two or three jobs to afford things like food or healthcare. They do not want additional benefits. They want jobs that pay a living wage so that they can provide for their families.

  You are misinformed and have not done any research on this subject. There has been plenty of time to obtain factual information but many have not taken the time to see just who does make up this movement that has now spread all over the world. Very sad in this day of advanced technology right at our finger tips.

• Anonymous

  As the article stated the city is not to clear on terminology itself. You don’t get to define someone or something else. Members define themselves. You can disagree with the definition but until a court rules no rules apply in this situation. The city had a public assembly ordinance which was vacated by court order.

• Anonymous

  Hello, duh.  You call for her removal based on your opinion.

• Anonymous

  Don’t take the bait.

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  They NEVER even hinted about those types of things. Where do you pull this garbage from. The “Structures” that the city wants removed are “SEMI-PERMANENT meaning they are capable of being permanent, yet they can be removed. An umbrella is an accessory to clothing, so are blankets you clown. Whether the city doesn’t want them there or not, a RULE they would enforce for one person is a rule they MUST enforce for all, whether your black, white, rich, poor, hippy, hick, you name it.

  I don’t like Hollywood Slots, so a bunch of friends and I are going to go camp out at the waterfront park for a month to get the word out. Wait, there are laws/rules about camping in the park. What about my free speech? GIVE ME A BREAK!

• Anonymous

  So do you think that the founding fathers would support acquiring a permit to assemble?

• Anonymous

  No OccupyBangor approved occupation is occuring in the park at this point. The structure that remains is a symbolic one. It serves no other purpose. You can use the park at any time you would like.

• Anonymous

  But luv…the “tents” (tarps) are not being used for shelter according to OWS the Bangor Edition. The “tents” which are being used for “shelter” are on the BPL property and are not subject to an “event” permit.

  In fact OWS the Bangor Edition removed the “tents” (tarps) on Sunday and replaced them with the “symbolic tent” (tarp) and stated they would not remove that one.

  So OWS the Bangor Edition has admitted by deed that the “tents” (tarps) were in violation of city ordnance when they removed the original on Sunday.

• Anonymous

  Fill out the permits or leave…… Really… Not that hard..

• Anonymous

  Sure.

• Anonymous

  There was no agreement except to remove the storage structures. That was done and the park raked and leaves removed. There was surprisingly little litter in the leaf piles. I know. I bagged them. So we met our obligations and more.

• Anonymous

  Don’t take the bait.

• Anonymous

  As the article stated the city is not to clear on terminology itself. You don’t get to define someone or something else. Members define themselves. You can disagree with the definition but until a court rules no rules apply in this situation. The city had a public assembly ordinance which was vacated by court order.

• Anonymous

  Why did you feel it was necessary to explain that in Ebonics?  Is that something you and your friends think is funny?  I’m glad people like you publish that type of comment here so everyone can see what your side stands for.  You make yourself look like a dumb redneck.

• Anonymous

  Don’t take the bait.

• Anonymous

  Please provide evidence that the Occupiers of Bangor or those across the country are leaching off anyone. There is no proof to back up this claim that is merely a generalization or stereotype that has no basis in fact.

• Anonymous

  I like that analogy. A lot.

• Anonymous

  Don’t take the bait.

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  blah, blah, blah…

  “Members define themselves.” Give me a break. Your kidding Right? Whether they consider themselves an Assembly or the city considers them an Event is a mood point. The city is not stopping them from “Assembling” they are only asking they follow the rules like everyone else. The structures at the so-called “assembly” are not a part of the right to speak openly.

  So, in other words, simnpler words, by your/their arguments, if they wanted to pitch those tents and tarps in your backyard, against your wishes, they can do it because they have the right to assembly and free speech. And don’t give me the “private property” garbage either. Property laws and rules are in the same books as parks and recreation laws and rules, so why is it ok to break these, but not those?

• http://www.facebook.com/antonio.giarratano Antonio Giarratano

  Apparently, the right to break the law is a part of the 1st Amendment…

• Anonymous

  I have been concerned about the infiltration aspect because I know that it is something that our government has used and uses.

• Anonymous

  I’m sure the City would be delighted to issue you a permit.

• Anonymous

  The movement is actually growing by the thousands every day.

• Anonymous

  I agree a court has spoken and many cities do have public assembly ordinances. Bangor does not. Just because the city wants to use its events ordinances does not mean it will stand the test of a legal challenge. The public assembly ordinance it had was vacated by a court order.

• Anonymous

  You’re the clown.  They are not camping in the park.

• Anonymous

  The ignorance and meanness seem to go hand in hand.

• moog98

  I’d like them to stop drumming. Its ignorant to do so during business hours… especially across the street from counselors, etc. Its inspiring complaints from their neighbors who might not otherwise care so its a dumb practice. Anyone notice how theres only groups of people at the park when theres a photo opp? All to create the appearance that theres activity there. Otherwise I only see a handful during the day.

• Anonymous

  If anyone has a question about the ASSEMBLY it can be directed to the Occupy Bangor website that has a contact page. Goto the EVENT planning section, see below :) I think that says it all…..

  Event Planning
  *The Event Planning Working Group needs volunteers!
  Help set up the encampment at Peirce Park.  For more information, contact the Event Planning Working Group at [email address].

• Anonymous

  We noticed how neatly the leaves were raked when we walked by.

• Anonymous

  The ignorance and meanness and nastiness always seem to go hand in hand.

• Anonymous

  People see what they want to see.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  I have absolutely no problem with you standing and stating your cause and doing whatever you can to get that message out to as many people as will stop to listen.  But lets put the issue of “events vs. assembly” aside because frankly, no one cares.  But,  what City of Bangor taxpayers do care about is that the cause has taken up home on City of Bangor property, is burning wood on City of Bangor property and making the park look like a campground in the summertime, not at all its intended purpose.  You would add much to your cause by recognizing that you have worn out your welcome and that you should take the tents down, clean up the park and go home.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  Actually, they are like a virus that just won’t go away.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  What are they doing to save America?

• Anonymous

  Personally I no longer do business with fast food companies as they are among those who gouge the American taxpayer with public assistance wages.

• Anonymous

  Thankfully the library is being welcoming and fair-minded and tolerant (as always)….as we know , a library is not about which books you should read or not, or what speech you should say or not…..libraries represent knowledge, and open-mindedness and access to information…..may it ever be thus… a library is not about shutting any of those things down. 

• Anonymous

  Their fish sandwiches, coffee, and wild berry drinks are good too!

• Anonymous

  Rid this planet of trolls! LOL

• Anonymous

  What? Huh? The only thing they can haul off is the remaining protest bivouac. And, yes the one person acting on his own. OccupyBangor has always left the park at 10:00 to my knowledge.

• Anonymous

  Really good perspective and thoughts.

• PaulNotBunyan

  For starters the law might limit the size of political signs on public property and the courts have ruled to uphold that type of law many times. If it’s fair and reasonable the courts allow it. Political signs on private property would enjoy much greater protection.

• Anonymous

  Because everyone is either working or at school. The weekends are when most people come. During the weekdays there is a small core of people there.

• Anonymous

  ” So when the 99% does not agree with you …. “ 

  I don’t really expect a 99% approval rating. 
  Do you have what YOU are demanding of others, yet, Kevin ? 

  It is not about the 99% . 
  Rather it IS about the 1%  who control the the economy and its performance. 

  It is about how their tax cut deregulation programs are not working for all Americans … are not working for good of America, yet,  are they ?    

  Why can’t their tax cut deregulation programs be said to be exactly what threatened ( and in Europe still threatens) to collapse the capitalist system  AND  SO, WHAT RESULTS IN MORE BIG GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION ?       : 0

  Besides more of that, besides more of the same,  
  given the record, besides more of what we already know , not only, does n0t float the majority’s , the working middle class’, boat,  but repeatedly threatens global economic collapse of the capitalistic system , what are your NEW, better solutions ?  

  ….  beside criticizing  ”them” on style,  what are your NEW , better, solutions. Kevin ? 

  If you really do have it together better then those people in the park, those people who use the library,  
  but who you described as …. certainly, it should be no problem
  for you, Boss, ( and Wall St., too ? ) 
  to tell us, we the people,  on America’s Main St. when your single option will finally trickle down upon Maine.

  Just enough to float a canoe, at low tide, in the Kenduskeug would be welcomed.

• Anonymous

  I no longer do business at fast food companies because their foods are adding to the obesity epidemic and are filled with chemicals, steroids, antibiotics and growth hormones. Not good for the human body.

• Anonymous

  Well said.

• Anonymous

  I’m not even sure that any of that means. I prefer reading full sentences that are coherent.

• Anonymous

  “…. under the hot southern sun, perspired.  So what?”
  The 1% glows, don’t you know ?  

  If you have sweated, ever, you are not really cool enough to be included in the club. 

  : )

• Anonymous

  Well Said.

• Anonymous

  Did the real Tea Party patriots
  need a permit to assemble ?

  Did the Continental Army ever get their  permit to assemble
  and camp out at Valley Forge
  ( talking about funky, winter camping. P.U. ! ) or later, at Yorktown ?

• Anonymous

  You define the definition of delusional.
  “The city if attempting to stifle them and force them out by UNREASONABLY and INHUMANELY exposing them to harsh weather conditions, potentially causing them harm.”
  How more lunatic fringe can you get?
  The city is forcing them?
  How about THEY are putting themselves in that position. A conscious decision made by each and every one of them.
  One of the more absurd comments thus far.

• Anonymous

  Yes, in between work and school they sacrifice their time to stand up for Americans. It says a great deal about their character. 

• Anonymous

  Steve this is what really concerns me http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/11/22/10000-expected-to-line-up-for-free-turkey-dinners-in-south-la/    So many people had hope when they voted for President Obama.  What a disaster he has been.  He too is being controlled by the Wall St. crowd.  I don’t see anyone in the horizon right now as a real leader.  So maybe both the occupiers and the tea party are right.  I have many friends who are directly involved in both movements.

  Yesterday I helped distribute turkey dinners to families locally.  They were many of the working poor who are struggling to get by on crappy wages just to buy fuel and food for their families.

  Does anyone have a solution to these problems we face without turning to socialism?  Because in the long run that will fail too.

• Anonymous

  I take that as a compliment from the likes of you.

• Anonymous

  “I see only a handful of people” during the day….”why aren’t these people working instead of hanging around in the park?”…..”some occupation, the place is deserted”……”so if these people have jobs how can they stand around their slum all day?”………
  JUST CAN’T PLEASE YOU FOLKS, CAN WE???

• Anonymous

  Maybe he’s not hanging on your every word JD.

• Anonymous

  I was discussing the poll at the link that Spruce provided.  Not the BDN poll.  If you click on the link Spruce provided, you will read exactly what I posted.

• Anonymous

  Never implied that he was luv, never implied that he was.

• Anonymous

  @222, obanion, and the 4 “likers”….I would like to suggest that you folks shut off your computers, get out of your chairs, and head to the nearest mental health clinic (I hear there’s one across from the Occupy site) to find out why you are so filled with hate against your fellow human beings that you would wish them to freeze to death.  You are sick people and the sooner you face that and get help, the better off society will be.

• Anonymous

  Nice to hear from an Occupier with a different point of view. The way I see the situation is that OccupyBangor is a public assembly and has the right to gather. There is no enforcable ordinance governing assembly at this point. I was never very sure about tents and firepits myself. And OccupyBangor does host ‘events’ for which it should apply for permits. Good topics for a Genral Assembly. OccupyBangor is a work in progress. Things will become clearer as time for reflection on all of these permutations occurs.

• PaulNotBunyan

  There are individuals and groups outside the government to consider. Usually they are quicker to make a decision and act on it.

• Anonymous

  There is a video recently done by Nescom students that shows daily chores that include raking the park, picking up any trash, stacking the wood pile and other things is a neat way in order to keep things neat and tidy. The statue had graffiti all over it when they got there but Occupiers scrubbed it and cleaned it. 

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VRVIBRTZT6OZZRE4WLVM2POJAM WB

  if I didnt know a couple of these people personally I might have thought that these were actually displaced workers or people that have suffered financially because of wallstreet , but they are freeloaders who have never worked and collect benefits paid by us thru the state… GET A JOB & STP WHINING!!

• Anonymous

  I have some serious questions to ask of those who spew venom at the people who are trying to fight for much-needed change in our society:
  Why do you hate them so much? What is it that you object to and disagree with? Are you content with the level of income disparity in our country? Do you feel that our political, social, financial framework operates in the best interests of the majority of people? Do you feel that having to work 60-80 hours a week, as some have said they do, in order to survive is noble? Is it the way you perceive “the American way of life” to be? When there are people willing to sacrifice their comfort and safety to fight for improvements in our country, why do you perceive them to be “scum”?  Are there changes YOU would like to see happen? How will you go about trying to effect those changes?
  Again, these are serious questions. I am very interested in understanding WHY you feel as you do to the point of wishing physical harm/death on these people.  Please don’t reply with crap about “messing up the park” or “preventing you from eating your sandwich with your Glock in your lap.”  I would like to hear reasoned, intelligent, honest answers to my questions.
  Is American broken?  How do we come together to fix it?

• PaulNotBunyan

  Well, I mentioned it as a cult. Cults try to make it look like there is a voluntary consensus. I recall that Jones resorted to other methods when mind control didn’t get the job done.

• Anonymous

  Democrats to Wall Street Occupiers: We’re with you, but please don’t harass our biggest donors!

• Anonymous

  Ummmm……this isn’t a cult.

• http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

  If you have a job, you cannot just sleep in a camp and not go to work.  And please, don’t give the line that they are all rotating through while maintaining their jobs.  Show evidence for this.

• PaulNotBunyan

  Go back and read again. I never said it was. I was pointing out that the consensus approach won’t work as the group grows because it’s not a cult (or a crime gang, dictatorship, etc.).

• http://twitter.com/NorthernRants Bill Buck

  OWS believes that just like they were being spoiled and growing up that someone owes them something and rules do not apply to them because somehow they have been maligned by the country because they refuse to work.

• Anonymous

  Sort of like our corrupt politicians who are owned by corporate America?

• Anonymous

  What are you doing to save America?

• Anonymous

  How about the thousands of positive videos that show the good work being done within this movement?

• Anonymous

  That is right on the mark! Neither party wants Occupy harassing their biggest donors, thus the concerted effort underway to crush the movement and let BIG MONEY continue to own our political process.  Time to drive the money changers out of the temple, folks, and that goes for BOTH parties.  And in case you are wondering, I would be all for Obama stepping aside and letting someone who cares about the American people run for office. There are very few in DC right now who give a rat’s rear end about the rest of us….and those very few are silenced every time they try to speak.

• Anonymous

  Wanting Americans to die is well said?

• Anonymous

  I don’t sleep there. I support them but have mostly been photographing them and interviewing people. I cannot provide concrete evidence. I can only share what I have seen and what I know. Can you provide evidence that people are jobless and spend all of their time there? Can you provide evidence that members don’t rotate? 

  I have been among them, but you have not. What are your accusations based on? My accounts are based on me being there, doing research and knowing the people involved.

• Anonymous

  Get a job and stop posting on message boards!

• Anonymous

  Oh! Ok, I see what you mean. And it will be an interesting sociological event to watch, to see how it morphs with the consensus and the growth that must happen to make a true difference. This is the second group I work with that does consensus and I was a hard-core, top-down, somebody has to make decision kinda person. I like consensus. I like walking away knowing everyone has had their say. When quick, unilateral decisions must be made – and at some point that will start happening – consensus might lose to a different form of decision-making.

  But at the least people are meeting, talking together and not sitting in front of tv/computer. That in itself, I think, is a positive thing for humanity in 2011.

• Anonymous

  Oh I know. They frighten me as well. There are powerful people in this country who just want the Occupy movement to go away so I am sure that some of them would do anything to discredit the movement and the people who support it. 

• PaulNotBunyan

  It’s people who are against authority that caused a lot of our problems. I mean they’re against any authority over themselves. Well planned loopholes can remove the authority of regulations from the select few.

• Anonymous

  Excellent post but unfortunately you probably won’t get a well thought out civil reply.

• Anonymous

  Actually there are polls coming out now that provide evidence that the employment rate of OWS is actually higher than within the Tea Party movement.

  You are repeating stereotypes and generalizations that have no basis in fact. You refuse to become educated but would rather spread misinformation.

• Anonymous

  Love your last paragraph. If they don’t accomplish anything else, they have helped people become aware of the bigger issues and have opened up dialogue across the country.

  And the college students or young adults who are involved are actually trying to make a difference unlike many of their counterparts who are glued in front of the TV playing video games and watching reality shows.

• Steve Anderson

  What are they doing to save America?

  They’re fighting against political corruption. They’re fighting to preserve our right to free speech. They’re working to ensure that jobs are available for all Americans. They’re demanding that the banking practices which caused the collapse of our economy be outlawed, so that our economy doesn’t collapse again. They’re demanding that the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share in taxes. They’re working to make American’s aware of what’s going on in their country so that we can understand what’s wrong and how to fix it. And they’re fighting to take control of our country  out of the hands of the elite and give it back to the American people. 

• Steve Anderson

  You don’t need to fear socialism. Socialism isn’t dangerous anymore than capitalism is evil. 

  Socialism is just an system in which the government takes money from it’s citizens and uses that money to do things that benefit the country as a whole. The military, the fire department, law enforcement, roads, pubic libraries – these things are all socialist. 

  Socialism will fail without a free market, and capitalism without socialism would quickly cause society to collapse. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. A country needs both to survive and prosper.

• Anonymous

  Then after they actually come up with free enterprise money to get a permit, make them protest in the snow, cold, and then hit them with hoses to clean them up.  They are not standing for Americans; they are progressive leftists who are whining about the system that feeds them and are the band of socialists who are the Dem’s real BASE. Please wake up and stop believing what your socialist profs are brainwashing you with in Berkeley clones and the leftist MSM.

• Anonymous

  As American Citizens it is not only our inherent Right..But our Civic Duty to confront a corrupt Government and Corporate Influencer’s whom seek to make gain off the majority of Americans to those Americans detriment!

• Anonymous

  Follow the money.  A few profited in the $billions while thousands of people lost their homes.  Banks used to be trustworthy, but no more.  That’s why they’re called con men, short for confidence men.  First they gain your confidence, then they rip you off.

• PaulNotBunyan

  I wonder what psychiatrists and psychologists with relevant clinical experience would have to say. I can accept it when my dissenting vote is in the minority but it wouldn’t bother me a bit to prevent a consensus by standing firm. I’m just one of those people who knows when to quit. There are some people who react in other ways. A way of doing things which can make more people feel rejected or humiliated is not the best choice. That’s why I prefer paper ballots to a show of hands when it’s “the people” voting. Open voting is best for bodies of elected or appointed individuals.

• Anonymous

  By Dr. Sowell
  The current Occupy Wall Street movement is the best illustration to date of what President Barack Obama’s America looks like.
   
  It is an America where the lawless, unaccomplished, ignorant and incompetent rule.
  It is an America where those who have sacrificed nothing pillage and destroy the lives of those who have sacrificed greatly.

• Anonymous

  No…it is not a great post.  Individual rights are balanced with societal rights and conditions have been accepted on many of them, not just on the right to bear certain arms and not others.  Free speech, too, has limitations when it is reasonably proven to cause harm.  Justify the need for automatic weapons before demanding the right to own one.  Free speech, by the way, does more to protect individual freedom than any type of weapon.

• PaulNotBunyan

  They took things they learned in WW2 and refined them further afterwards. It was inevitable that some of the “specialists” would wind up in non-government jobs. When we allow agencies like the CIA trying to throw elections overseas, we can expect our own political process to eventually be affected.

• Anonymous

  I did research on this quote and at least Snopes.com says it’s false. Too bad. I’m disappointed but at least I learned. I don’t know about the second quote I had found. Thanks for your response.

• gaily

  You’re 100% right.  Not hard at all.
  A permit is required for me to have a yard sale in my own yard – so I got one.
  A permit was required just to have a Tea Party presence for a few hours – we got one.
  A permit is required for a fire – Occupy Bangor does not have ANY permits for anything!
  We need to fix this very broken Country but not by disobeying the common laws everyone else has to abide by.
  Run for office, do your civic duty and vote, get the laws changed, get rid of the loopholes.  We can do this but not by setting up tents.  This has caused nothing but trouble, chaos, riots, disrupting small business, and by the way – where do you think all the Union Pensions etc. are invested???
  Wall Street of course.  If you want to see rich – look at Washington!  Insider trading is a crime for you and me but they do it legally!  This is a crime and we need to change Washington!!!!!

• gaily

  It’s not mean to get a permit like everyone else has to but….
  it’s ignorant NOT to………you’re not being fair to the rest of the us that reside in Bangor, pay our taxes and go to the ballot box and vote to change the mess we’re in or at least try to.

• gaily

  Very well said and so true.

• gaily

  You need a “permit” to stand out there and display signs. 
  It is an “event” and you need a Event Permit.
  I have one right in my hand and we HAD to fill one out just to wave flags and hold signs. 
  Not a hard thing to do.

• gaily

  Sorry but I’ve seen the Occupy Wall St. crowds signs.  And redistrubution of wealth and take from the rich is certainly one of the goals. 
  I don’t want anybody else’s money.  I made my own living and didn’t expect someone with more money than me to give me theirs.  The rich pay the highest tax rates – it’s the loopholes that’s to blame!  Get rid of the loopholes!!!

• gaily

  It’s more than a discussion in a park – it’s also hanging out on the sidewalk with signs marching back and forth.  When people cannot “get” to work or “leave” work or “get home” without being obstructed, it’s infringing on “their rights”.  You aren’t the only ones that have rights – we all do.

• gaily

  I agree wholeheartedly.
  What a City this would be if we all said to heck with the rules!!
  Plus when I looked on my Cable Bill, I pay a “fee” to the Library……..Where’s my Constitutional rights “NOT” to pay this!  There is no way to get this taken off my bill!!!!

• Anonymous

  I live nearby and have no problems going to and from work or going into City Hall or the library. Have you been to Bangor?

• Anonymous

  One tent is there, put up as an individual’s protest, the remainder are on library property, last I looked. The blue tarp structure shown in the photos is more like a political sign than a temporary shelter. Split hairs forever.

• Anonymous

  True, where’s the concern for public safety here?

• gaily

  Good.  So the Tea Partiers can gather daily and forever in the park without a permit.  We can share the park.  We want smaller Government, Personal Responsibility, and fewer regulations that strip individual freedom!  Maybe we do have some things in common. 

• Anonymous

  True, you are muddying the propaganda by informing with facts.  Liked.

• Anonymous

  And lawyers helped them do it.

• Anonymous

  I am willing to bet that the real reason OWS the Bangor Edition will not complete the “Event Permit Application” has more to do with this little statement below the “Applicant’s Signature” than anything else.

  “PLEASE BE ADVISED: The City of Bangor requires proof of insurance for use of City property. The type of insurance must be comprehensive general liability or public liability insurance. The insurance should be specific to the proposed event or should cover all activities of the sponsoring organization. The insurance coverage must be, at a minimum, $400,000 per claim / $1,000,000 annual aggregate. In an appropriate case, a higher amount of insurance may be required. In order for an event permit application to be approved, a current insurance certificate must be supplied by the applicant with the completed application. The certificate must indicate that the city of Bangor is an additional named insured.”

  And when I counted the tents located on city property there were three (3) today not counting the “tent” (tarp).

• Anonymous

  Yes, of course the tea partiers can gather daily and forever in the park without a permit. 

• Anonymous

  The Supreme Court?  Remember the election of 2000? That’s when I stopped respecting the SCOTUS.  “Bumper sticker philosopher” is an interesting description of me, not even close, but thanks for trying! Now does your name imply that you do not believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land? The United States of America is the previous name of the Homeland in case you forgot that in all the excitement lately. I know quite a bit more than you give me credit for. And I can cite sources.

• Anonymous

  That may be true, haven’t been down there tonight. But those people have the right to protest regardless. If they aren’t allowed to camp in the park and they do it, they are willing to take whatever consequences there are. You can’t condemn all that are there for what a few decide to do. The beauty of a leaderless movement is that people can act individually to bring about a result using whatever means they see fit. No one is being harmed here and a message is definitely being brought out.

• Anonymous

  I personally have been there three or four times since Friday and I work 40 hrs a week in a responsible job plus have my own business on top of that. First person narrative is the best source, not talk shows on the radio.

• Anonymous

  Broadway Park.

• Anonymous

  Dear Spruce, I am not going to forgive you for getting rid of Beez. That was wrong.

• Anonymous

  Never said that they don’t have the right to protest. All I have said is they need to abide by the city rules and ordinances.

   And now that I have seen the actual permit, I believe there refusal to complete the permit has more to do with the insurance requirements than anything being publicly stated.

• Anonymous

  steve, if you are so warm to socialism, and what goes with it, let me ask you where does liberty fit????
  If I want to drink alcohol or smoke or hunt animals with my weaponry, does that jive with your social engineered society?….doubt it!
  Why don’t you try being honest with what socialism means for America! There isn’t one single european socialist country that allows it citizens to pay less than 65% of their income in taxes of one sort or another.  81% in Denmark!  Can anyone imagine the pain of !!!65%!!!  If I’m a doctor, why study my backside off to cure cancer or aids, or anything??
  As an computer engineer, why try to invent the next iPad??  Why have centers for excellence like Juliard School of Music if they are mandated with racial and ethnic quotas??

• Anonymous

  No you did not HAVE to if you were a public assembly. If you were an event, then, yes, you did have to have a permit. It is that simple. There is no enforcable ordinance for public assemblies.

• Anonymous

  I did not see anything about tents in the first post of yours which is what I was responding to. I never got the tent thing either. Hold on, let me do a little looking…. nope, no explanation of how the whole tent thing got started. Not even a suggestion that it had to do with all the foreclosures. No, I think public property is handled differently than private property. Think it has something to do with who pays the taxes. But I am not a property rights lawyer, so really cannot speak to that. Many cities have ordinances for public assemblies. Bangor does or did, until a court order vacated it.

• Anonymous

  All questionable cases, however; thank you for your research efforts along your with concern that Americas bill of rights will not somehow become distorted by our corrupt politicians

• Steve Anderson

  We already live in a socialist system: the government takes our taxes and uses them to fund education, law enforcement, roads, the Armed Services, etc. 

  Socialism doesn’t preclude liberty anymore than capitalism precludes generosity.

• Anonymous

  So you can cite “sources” but not any USSC decisions because “don’t respect them”?  Guess who’s decisions will control the issue, not your “sources” of that we can be sure.

  Skip

  ________________________________
  From: Disqus
  To: chspurl@yahoo.com
  Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:10 PM
  Subject: [bdn] Re: May we Occupy, please? Bangor dispute highlights problems other camps might encounter

  Disqus generic email template

  letsbehonestforonce wrote, in response to paytreot:
  The Supreme Court?  Remember the election of 2000? That’s when I stopped respecting the SCOTUS.  “Bumper sticker philosopher” is an interesting description of me, not even close, but thanks for trying! Now does your name imply that you do not believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land? The United States of America is the previous name of the Homeland in case you forgot that in all the excitement lately. I know quite a bit more than you give me credit for. And I can cite sources. Link to comment

• Anonymous

  Thanks for the edification Skip.