Comments for: Mainers to decide whether to borrow $76 million for bond questions on Tuesday’s ballot

Posted Nov. 03, 2012, at 4:08 p.m.

BANGOR | When Maine voters hit the polls on Tuesday, Nov. 6, they will be deciding whether the state should borrow a total of nearly $76 million — with about $19 million in interest — toward infrastructure, higher education and conservation projects. The bond questions on this year’s ballot …

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  • Downeasta

    Whats the point of voting on it?  LePage will vetoe it anyway, citing it is going to cost us more or some such thing.

    • Anonymous

      Time for impeachment.

  • Anonymous

    You must vote anyway/ I agree with you But All people must vote. Bonds are ined in states to get what they need Don’t be untimidated/

  • Anonymous

    Burdening our children with crushing debt is selfish and irresponsible. 

    • Anonymous

      If you pay yourself, right now, the entire cost for a major infrastructure asset, one that will be used by your children and grandchildren, they get a free ride.  So tell me, how is that fair to you?

      Maine does not just issue bonds without paying – they are regularly paid off, and often paid ahead of time.

      Maine issues and repays bonds much like riders get on/off a Ferris wheel.  The wheel stops and bonds get on, while others are paid off and retired.

      We are not abdicating our responsibility if we sensibly finance using bonds.  I speak of Maine, not Uncle Sam.  That is a different issue.

      • Anonymous

         If you believe that Maine has been spending responsibly then you haven’t been paying attention.

        • Anonymous

          I said that bond financing for a long term infrastructure is sometimes smart.

          You said the rest. Vote “No” if you want to. It is a free country, and it is your right.

    • jdtex

      ..and has become the American way.  I’m with you.

  • Rocky4

     VOTE NO ON ALL BOND ISSUES!!!!  The credit card is maxed out.

    • Anonymous

      Governments (and larger coporations) don’t operate on credit cards.

      • Really……16t in debt..how ya paying for that!

        • Anonymous

          You missed his point.  Bond financing isn’t exactly the same as running up the ol’ credit card.

          I’m no finance guy, but I know that sometimes the debt is less expensive of the alternatives.  That is why corporations issue bonds, from time to time.

          Money has a time value.  Depreciation (loss of value) is a real cost.  Sometimes this means that bonds make sense.

          Reading these posts would make one think that Maine just issues bonds, piles up debt, and never pays it down.  The truth is that Maine pays them off regularly, and often, ahead of schedule.

          • Anonymous

             Meanwhile the state has current bills that are due to Maine hospitals and medical providers, some over 5 years old, that haven’t been paid. Only the drones running government and those who benefit from their irresponsible spending could think the solution is to borrow more money.

          • Anonymous

            No argument that they should pay those. 

            Remember, though, that letting infrastructure deteriorate is another form of deficit spending.  And the track record for paying bonds is good.  Reading most of these posts, one would get the impression that we never pay any of them down, and it isn’t true.

          • Anonymous

            However, Buddy, bonding is still borrowing on the future credit of the State..there’s no denying that, and if unnecessary funding is borrowed the net result is to drive up future tax rates that must be paid in order to service the [increased] debtload.

    • Anonymous

      Right, let our infrastructure
      go to pieces and wait until interest rates get higher to decide to fix those
      things.Certainly looks like perhaps you don’t use roads or bridges. Lucky you!
      Unfortunately, most Of Maine needs these things, even the ‘job creators

      • Anonymous

         If we can afford the interest AND the principal then why not pay as we go and pay only the principal?  Road maintenance is not a one time expense like buying a house.  Time to put on the big boy pants and quit borrowing from the future.  Vote NO on all bonds.

      • jdtex

        There are many things we ‘think’ we need, as is evident by the millions of people who have borrowed themselves into bankruptcy.  Feel free to donate your personal funds as you see fit.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe vote yes for highway/bridge, maybe drinking water.  But, NO, for the U of M, they have always got their hand out for something, they need to scale down, get rid of some of that infastructure, get rid of the chancellor’s office, that alone, would give them the money they need. However the biggest and loudest NO NO NO  is question 3, this is an inside deal, someone is just waiting to unload these, and let the poor Mainers pay for it, let the owners pay taxes to the State, and if they do not want too, donate the land.

    • EB

      No Water/Waste Treatment!! MANY people in Maine have decent wells and a perfectly good septic tank! Personally I don’t want my town to require me to hook up and pay for public water and sewage! I pay enough in property taxes as it is! I’m just fortunate that right now I live far enough away from town to avoid this nonsense!

      • Anonymous

        Many?  Data please.  Maine has a good record the last couple of decased improving it’s ground and surface water let’s keep it up.

      • Anonymous

        they can’t make you hook up to the town….
        the treatment  plant delivers clean drinking water and handles the waste. You may have a well ( hope you test your water often) but I don’t. I want water that I can trust.

  • Anonymous

    A lot of folks don’t understand that voting for a bond issue, is voting for our tax money to get spent.

    • Anonymous

      LOL…you seriously think your tax money would not be spent in the absence of bonds?

      what alternative universe are you people living in?

  • Anonymous

    Ah, yeah, just vote NO for everything, we don’t need any of it. Why would we want to increase any debt. It’s better for no one to have any chance for a job. Just shut the state down… Borrow money, heck NO.. Oh, the next time you might want a car, house, or any other high cost item, save for it. Put the loan institutions out of business!

    • Anonymous

      You know there was a time in this country when the general public was not so eager to lick the boot heels of the bankers….sad to see you’ve fallen victim to the bankster’s outright lies and illusions

      • Anonymous

        Point of the comment is, Money needs to travel around to help everyone. Not borrowing, does not move money. When money doesn’t move neither does the economy…

        • Anonymous

          Then why don’t we all just max out our credit cards, apply for more credit cards, max’em out, apply for more, ect?   Borrowing money for necessities is acceptable, but to be responsible old debt must paid before creating new debt.

        • When money doesn’t move, neither does the economy.

          My thesis today is about being economically dead. 

          You know that I was a single man for twenty years — between the ages of 34 and 54. I have always been a very moderate man. Call it being lazy if you will. A medical person might now explain that I had a thyroid deficiency which can yank the rug of ambition from beneath your feet. I was always tired, I had no wife and no children so there was no need for me to work. You might know many people who wouldn’t work if they didn’t have to. For many, many years I didn’t earn enough money to pay an income tax. I was content to let my house fall down around me. I dressed in rags and was happy. I can remember one winter my income was the $100 Alvin Hawkins paid me for some hackmatack trees he wanted for his dock. You can see that if every man in the United States
          had lived and thought like I did, we would have been invaded and conquered by Peru a long time ago. I didn’t work, and therefore I couldn’t spend. I was completely worthless as far as Maine’s economic community was concerned. For all practical purposes Adam Smith or John Nash would have pronounced me economically dead.

          Are you hanging in here with me?

          On the other hand, — you heard about the people who died but weren’t found until three years later. Their social security checks were deposited directly into
          their checking account and the power and utility companies had prevailed upon
          these people to eliminate the bother of check writing and let them tap directly
          into the account on the other end. So for three years after these people died,
          the money went into the checking account and for the same three years all their
          bills were automatically paid by their checking account. You, of course, see
          where I’m going with this. For three years after these people stopped breathing, they continued to be vital, contributing members of their economic community.

          There in a somewhat abbreviated form, you have the economic history of two households: The humble Farmer, who was living but economically dead, and the family that was dead but economically living. 

          If you were Open For Business which one would you want in your town?

          When money doesn’t move, neither does the economy.

          The humble Farmer

          • Anonymous

            Well said… And, if anyone doesn’t agree, Keep buying from China!

          • Anonymous

             You were lazy and you’re neighbor had no friends.  What’s the point?

            If we don’t borrow the money then the taxpayers who have to pay it back will keep the money and spend it much more wisely than the government drones could ever hope to.

        • Anonymous

          You’re exactly right…money in circulation is what defines our economy.  However, you don’t have to borrow to keep the economy in decent shape.  The mere fact that we have two political parties, one of which always advocates for increases in social welfare program spending is enough to help support the economy.

      • Anonymous

        Investors buy the bonds and Munis are always a good buy.

        • Anonymous

          LOL….man are you gonna get creamed!

          Ben and the boys at Goldy are gonna roll right over yah…

      • The only way a banker pulls it over on you would be if you do not read the contract. / paperwork

    • Anonymous

       When you buy a house (it is stupid to borrow money for a car even though many people do it) you are buying it once and will retire the debt and have a valuable asset. The state comes back begging for new bonds EVERY year. Meanwhile they own Maine hospital and medical providers hundreds of millions in unpaid bills. Only a graduate of Maine public schools could call that a balanced budget.

      • Anonymous

        You have a valuable asset, even while you are paying for it, and even if you refinanced it.

        You might be better off, in some cases, to never pay it off.  If you pay it off, you might incur costs that are even larger from depletion of your own savings, loss of value, loss of tax deduction, and lack of liquidity.

        It isn’t as simple as “if I never have any debt to service, that is ideal” and “if I have debt to service, that is terrible.”  It depends on the situation.

        It might not always be stupid to borrow money to buy a car, either.  What if you borrowed at 1%?  Is that stupid?

        • Anonymous

          Doesn’t matter whether you borrow at 1% or 15%.  If, in 5 years, you owe more on the car than the car’s worth you’re ‘upside down’.  Not a good position to be in.  Likewise, that’s the position many homebuyers found themselves in when the bottom dropped out of the real estate market in 2008.

  • Anonymous

    Can we do it line by line I favor some but not all

    • Anonymous

      yes, the bonds are separate items, Questions 2, 3, 4 and 5.

  • Anonymous

    You don’t borrow more money when trying to get out of debt…THAT makes sense only in the bizarro world of a liberal. Problems? Just throw more money at them according to the failed ideology of the Leftists, Liberals and Dems. Nothing about cutting spending, just spend, spend, SPEND! Good thing we’ll have Angus King in DC to fight against….oh, right. He’ll spend like a drunken sailor like he did when governor. Nevermind.

    • Anonymous

      Please don’t compare Angus King to drunken sailors.  It’s insulting to drunken sailors!

  • Jake_OO7

    Vote Yes on all bonds!
    Stick it to Lepage!

    • Anonymous

      That would be sticking it to all Maine taxpayers.

      • Anonymous

        That’s what the dems are all about

        • Jake_OO7

          Ha Ha! When your rich like Myth it doesn’t matter.    :]

  • Anonymous

    No.

  • Anonymous

    Didn’t they just increase tolls for this very reason? Am I missing something? We pay taxes to pay for infrastructure, and education, or at least that is what we are told. Yet we have failing schools, and crumbling roads, so then we are told that we only need to borrow some more money, or be taxed a little more to pay for our failing schools and crumbling roads. At what point have we taxed enough and borrowed enough money in order to have a healthy school system and infrastructure, because from the looks of it, it will never happen. No matter how much they borrow, no matter how much they tax, and no matter how much they raise tolls, our schools and infrastructure will continue to be neglected as the money will continue to be wasted elsewhere.

    They either need to work with what they have got or be quiet.

    • Anonymous

      And you’re satisfied with what you have?

    • Anonymous

      Part of the problem is that the money, borrowed or otherwise, isn’t spent wisely.  I’ve harped about this too many times to count but just in the last few years we’ve spent ~$200,000,000 on just 4 new schools.  Hampden takes top prize with $60,000,000.  They “want our children to be proud of their school”, as though a child’s pride in school makes a difference in the quality of their education.  Then we have the road bonds.  These are sponsored by a group called MBTA (Maine Better Transportation Association) which was created by construction companies solely to promote continued road construction via bonds and local taxes.  This organization is relentless in it’s pursuit of public monies.  That is it’s reason to exist!  UMaine seems as though it is a likely recipient but, again, they are back at the trough every year!  Ditto for land conservation.  Then we have the job creation bonds such as the one put forth during the last election cycle.  Almost everyone is in favor of creating jobs but the trouble is, nobody does their homework on where the money goes.  At least one potential recipient of this bond money has been in business for over a decade, has always been funded by the public, and STILL doesn’t have a viable product.  Oh, I almost forgot the constant pressure to build new “public safety” campus’s.  All of this is fueled by the claim, accurate, that these funds are matched by federal largess.  The trouble is, they make it sound as though this money is free but it isn’t.  We pay federal taxes too so this money is coming out of your wallet.

      Currently the joke is that Maine voters never saw a bond they didn’t like.  That would seem to be true.  The problem is that these bonds are not really vetted publicly.  We, citizens of Maine, mean well but we never get the details such as the workings of the MBTA and other bond sponsors.  It’s time to put a halt to bond issues and revamp how the process is done.  There needs to be a requirement that bonds are vetted and then published for all to review.  Simple headlines with anti/pro opinion from one person just doesn’t cut it.  So until then, I urge voters to vote NO on all new bonds.

  • Anonymous

    How much bond money do we owe now, that would help me decide.

  • Anonymous

    NO on everything! Only a fool or a Democrat would try to spend their way out of debt!

  • Anonymous

    NO,NO,NO freaking NO!!!!!!!!!

  • A bond question is like an election in that it decides who will get the money — do the rich get more to hoard, or is tax or borrowed money used for education, healthcare and infrastructure.

    The American patriots who keep their homes in the Cayman Islands and their money in Swiss banks could care less about your public education, healthcare and infrastructure. And unless they want to give something back to you in this country, whose tax structure has enabled them to grow increasingly richer, why should they?

    Because the media is owned by the rich, many rural people have been conditioned to believe that giving money back to themselves and their communities in the form of education, healthcare and infrastructure is bad and giving money to the rich to stash in Switzerland is good.

    Until I started reading this blog a couple of years ago I really didn’t believe that so many people who eagerly vote against themselves could live in Maine.

    The humble Farmer

    • Dems and republicans have off shore accounts..so?

  • Anonymous

    I vote we throw out all Maine officials and start over with honest ones, that would mean selecting someone with an income below $50K.

    • Ya..maybe we should put minimum wage workers in there…ya no! I do not want to be led by one that has not already gotten ahead..

      • Anonymous

        Ya like we need more people like king getting ahead on the taxpayers back. or the electric ratepayers backs.. LOL!!!  Please stand in line. 

    • Anonymous

       You’re thinking LeBuffoon’s daughter, right?? :-)

  • Anonymous

    The liberals will vote yes and the conservsatives no. For the liberals the amount of money is not what the balance is in the checking account, it is the number of unwritten checks in the check book. Got a $2 balance and no money but I got 6 blank checks, I can write one for $50. I like that.

  • Conley Raye

    The state needs to repay the bonds that we have outstanding already before we borrow more and more. I believe the road and bridge bond is the only one we really need, now. The others can wait until we reduce our payback…….

    • Anonymous

       Pass a responsible budget that doesn’t require bonds.  Vote NO on all bonds.

    • Anonymous

      We pay bonds off constantly.  Maine’s record on paying bonds off is good.  They are often paid off early.

      I’m not voting Yes on them all, but I can’t stand this constant “always vote NO” mantra.

      Vote on the individual merits.  Use your heads.

      • Anonymous

        And I don’t see any advantage to voting to increase the size of the budget gaps that all too frequently leave the legislative appropriations committee scrambling to plug the holes in the dike with insufficient revenue sources(assuming that tax rates don’t get raised to cover on someone’s whim).

  • Anonymous

    Vote no on debt.

  • Anonymous

    I have a company that would benifit greatly from these bonds. I’m in it for over 1.3 millon, over 1/2 millon will be pure profit. Thanks for voting yes.. LOL!!! I need the money.

  • Superuser23

    Easiest questions I answered: No, No No and No

  • Briney

    Even when we vote “Yes,” we’re told our keeper will not permit the bonds to be sold.  In other words – your vote doesn’t mean anything in Maine. 

    The Bonds are urgently need to get the state moving again.  I’ll be voting “Yes” and let the US Supreme Court decide whether Paul Le Page has the power to stifle the people’s vote.

  • Anonymous

    Vote NO on all bond issues is a great suggestion.  Money is borrowed, and the taxpayers have to pay it back–Maine can not afford it!

  • Anonymous

    They got my vote and it is NO on all bonds.

  • Guest

    Yes on bonds. They are for the good of all.

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