Comments for: Maine innkeepers concerned over ADA requirement to put lifts in pools, hot tubs

Posted Feb. 15, 2012, at 3:32 p.m.

Some hoteliers in Maine whose properties feature pools and hot tubs are concerned that new handicap accessibility laws that have recently been clarified by the federal government may prove costly and burdensome. The addition to the Americans with Disabilities Act requires that all hotels with wading pools, swimming pools and …

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  • Anonymous

     THIS is why I can’t support the DNC. 

     Can’t allow smoking in a business  PRIVATELY owned. Gotta have a lift for a HOT TUB in a business PRIVATELY owned. I understand a pool, but a hot tub?? 

    • Anonymous

      I bet on the average these places dont get 5 handicap people that would need lifts a year , and now they have to spend more money that they dont have , especially this time of the year. Well , inn keepers the ADA  says you have to be all things to all people ! Next you will be required to have larger rooms for the claustrophobic ! 

      • Anonymous

        Maybe they’d get more customers who need a lift IF they indeed provided a lift.

        • Anonymous

          Maybe, but whats next ; bigger rooms for claustrophobic customers !

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, put up signs-NOT HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE, HANDICAPPED NEED NOT APPLY. Yeah that’s a brilliant business strategy.

    • Two planks and a warn winch!

      Whats the big deal?

    • Anonymous

      So I want to patronize a privately owned business that permits smoking, a VOLUNTARY ACTIVITY, while I breathe, an INVOLUNTARY activity…what do I do? You have a CHOICE to smoke, I have NO CHOICE about breathing. Statistically, there are more of US who DON’T smoke than there are those who do. What do you think makes more sense for the business?

      Let’s say I’m handicapped and can’t walk or have extreme difficulty in climbing the steps into and out of a pool. Should a business, that advertises its services as being available to the PUBLIC be permitted to discriminate, by not having a means for me to avail myself of all the services for which I would be paying if I patronized that establishment? Would it make more sense for the business be required to advertise that it is no handicapped accessible so that potential customers would be informed before they spend their money? How about a sliding fee scale adjusted for those who can and can’t use the services. Or would you prefer that that handicapped just stay home and not have a life? I hope you never find yourself in that position.

      • And statistically there are more NON handicapped people than handicapped people. Yet EVERYTHING needs be ADA? Common!

      • Anonymous

        There’s where your wrong. The majority doesn’t always rule. If it did then I wouldn’t have the fine example of a 16 year old girl getting a banner with a religious saying on it taken down after 20 years from her school.. because she was an Atheist and it offended her. 

         You can’t have it both ways.  Either the majority should have been able to shut her down. OR this one individual should be allowed to dictate what’s right or wrong in our society.

         Your comparison is laughable. Our country bows to the almighty dollar when speaking of smokers. They duck when asked about making them illegal while in the next,  Decrying  the evils of smoking. And let’s not forget how Cigars have avoided ridicule simply because they cater to a higher income clientele.  If you can show me a manner in which to rectify these issues I will Then take the time to process what you’ve said because under those circumstances they might make sense.  Under the current situation a PRIVATE BUSINESS should be allowed to offer an area for a PERFECTLY LEGAL PRODUCT.

        And a VOLUNTARY activity is ONE”S OWN CHOICE as the whether to attend. “Oh I like playing in a dart league but this one allows smoking”.. Guess what BOB, I bet ya look around you can find a bar that has darts and doesn’t allow smoking. It’s called freedom of choice. NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING

        By the way. I AM DISABLED, Thanks for speaking for me. I don’t know what i’d do without you.-sic-

  • More government control These are not public places. Handicap people can chose where they want to stay if thier is enough demand lifts will be put in . Just another way government drives up the cost of business.

    • Anonymous

      So you think it would be OK for an industry to decide that it won’t cater to people with physical disabilities? Why shouldn’t people with disabilities be able to enjoy the same things in life able-bodied people enjoy?

      • Guest

        I think you should be required to make your home 100% ADA compliant  no matter what the cost.  Just think, you might have someone with a disability visit or stay overnight, (chronic hangnails for instance).

      • Anonymous

        “Why shouldn’t people with disabilities be able to enjoy the same things in life able-bodied people enjoy?”

        hmmmm, let’s see here, perhaps because they are disabled?

        If I was blind, I wouldn’t expect to see and if I had no legs, I wouldn’t expect to dance.  There are limitations due to a disability and acting like we can overcome ALL of those limitations is completely unrealistic. 

        • Anonymous

          So because we humans weren’t born with wings, we shouldn’t be able to fly at all — with or without planes, gliders, helicopters, baloons, etc.?

          If you were blind and were given the ability to see, would you decline?

          If you lost an arm or a leg, would you decline an artificial one?

          The truth is, we are capable of overcoming certain physical limitations. Therefore, we should provide access that overcomes those limitations.

    • Anonymous

       So you’re then suggesting that places ADVERTISE UP FRONT  that they are not ADA compliant so that potential customers can make an informed decision? I guess those pesky handicapped people should just stay shut-up in their rooms and stop making trouble for people like you.

  • Anonymous

    Larger establishments should be compliant. I find it amazing that many people believe that we who need reasonable accommodations to enjoy the same amenities that others are bothersome or somehow “don’t use these facilities anyway so why bother.” Many who need accessible environments can afford a vacation from time-to-time. Sometimes we like to dine out, stay in nice lodgings, par take in resort amenities or buy a pass to a local community pool.  The time has long passed when disabled men and women were hid in the attic, unschooled, unemployed and completely dependent on society for sustenance. Many people do need supports such care attendants or adaptive vehicles so we can drive.  Still others need boarding homes, can not live independently or work.  But many of us can and do lives that are bright, wonderful and fulfilling. I am a disabled woman who uses a wheelchair and I grow tired of people telling me that I should be grateful for the help I get from the State. They are amazed that I own my home, I worked for 32 years and earned every penny of my pension. There are many thousands of disabled people in this country and abled bodied insensitive, uninformed, disingenuous people who look or think of us as 3rd class citizens-get over it! You may not like seeing us out shopping, holding hand with our loved ones or swimming with our broken limbs in your full sight but we are here and we are no longer living in the attic.

    • I can agree with you to a point. But having to spend 1000s on something that will not pay them back in return is not going to help a struggling business stay open. If thier is enough demand for it It will happen. The one that have handicap access will get those customers that have the need for it. As for public place most already have access for handicap people.

      • Anonymous

        Understand your point. In Maine we have a terrific program through FAME entitled MePower aka The Adaptive Living Program. Established to assist businesses and home owners make their environments accessible. Its a very business friendly program that all Maine businesses whose storefront or site including facilities are inaccessible could likely utilize to make it accessible. Its a real asset for Maine and could reduce the financial burden of making environments more usable for all of Maine’s people. Merchants first need to be better informed about supports available to them before complaining about costs and undue hardships.
        Its too bad the hotelier quotes in the article bought movable lifts. It was bad information that their action was predicated upon. Now that final rules have been published it is safe for merchants to move forward with improving their accessibility. Its unfortunate decisions like this Hotel made that makes it hard for them support the ADA. They intended to do the right thing but jumped the gun, bought useless lifts and are now stuck with them and still must make the necessary accommodation. The Hotel management got really bad advice. I would never advise my ADA clients to act without first being certain of the law. Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

  • Anonymous

    Trying to be fair to everyone in everyway possible often results in financial detriment or hardship to others. I can understand someone wanting to use a pool. I can understand an owner wondering where the money to provide the upgrade would come from. In todays climate, price rising is not the first answer. I can understand an owner saying that they will no longer have a pool available. And yet that decision could effect his business.  

    If someone balks at this ruling then they are called anti-handicapped and an awful human being concerned only about money. However when you are in business and providing jobs to others as well as trying to make a living money is a big concern.

    • Anonymous

      Memo to businesses-if you’re going to provide a service to one, you must be able to provide it to all. That’s why you went into business in the first place. Did you decide to go into business to sell only to people with red hair? Or people who are over 6 feet tall? I realize that those things may not require adaptive equipment but here’s a news flash-the adaptive equipment IS A BUSINESS EXPENSE AND THEREFORE DEDUCTIBLE under IRC 44.

  • Anonymous

    And don’t forget the wheelchair ramp on Mt. Katadin. Let’s get rediculous. Oh, and elevators for the sky-diving platforms.

    • Anonymous

      Obviously you don’t understand the ADA. If you did, you would know how ludicrous your comment is.

      • Anonymous

        This would seem like a chance for a “niche” market.  What about a free market economy? We’re not talking about government buildings or hospitals. Just because I have an OPINION, about this ADA  provision, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it. I could give a hoot about being PC.

  • Anonymous

    Is this a great country, or what?
    Just how many handicapped people actually want to put on a bathing suit and get in the water?

    • Anonymous

      Wow have you jumped off the diving board one to many times or what? Why wouldn’t we want to swim? Do our infirmities, mangled limbs, curved spines and wheelchairs/crutches/braces mean we can not enjoy the pleasures of life as you do. How dare you presume that we, The Disabled , do not want the enrichment of living such as opportunities to swim. WPOND your ridiculous question is either meant to as a purposeful  insult or if serious you must be missing a few chinks in your fence. Ableist people like you really make me wonder what line you were in when brains were handed out…

      • Anonymous

        Actually, WPOND asks e very legitimate question. This is a financial issue to the innkeepers, so therefore how many people and the cost. The other side of this problem is who will be responsible for the safe operation of the lift. This will certainly require staff trained to properly use this machine at an additional cost to the facility. If the ADA mandates this for a hot tub or swimming pool, when will they mandate it to bath tubs in the rooms? 

      • Guest

        If you want to swim them buy your own pool and lift.  But for people like you it is all about you and what YOU “want”.  To he11 with everyone else and the fact that your demands will be a burden on them. 

        The ADA is no longer about making reasonable accommodations for the disabled.  Now it is all about  the disabled being able to pretend they are just like everyone else.

        And the ad hominem attack on WPOND at the end of your post shows only that you cannot defent your position with any logical argument.  Only “feelings”.

        • Anonymous

          You are wrong, I do agree that a reasonable and undo burden cost application of the ADA is the best approach. Merchants look to their bottom line and I think with foresight and a bit of planning our communities, businesses, schools, city halls, hotels and so on can be compliant with the ADA. Its not about my wants its about equality of access to the same things you enjoy. You try spending a week in a wheelchair then tell us how inaccessible much of our communities are. To my last line that you point to as unable to defend with any logical arguments only “feelings;” I can easily defend my argument because It’s the Law.

          Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

      • Anonymous

        Sorry to have offended you. I take it you’re handicapped and I wish you weren’t. But since you are, deal with it. Don’t expect the whole world to bend over backwards and make everything easier for you. There are many accommodations to help you get about. You want people to spend thousands and thousands of dollars for a couple of people a year to use a pool/hot tub. Some already have portable lifts to help with that but no-o-o-o-o-o, that’s not good enough. It has to be permanent. Next they will specify that medical personnel must be within 25 feet of any handicapped person. This is just getting out of hand. When does it stop? There are just some things you won’t be able to do. I’m sorry. As someone else said “they’ll want a handicapped ramp to the top of Katahdin”. It’s just not going to happen. Get used to it. I’ve stayed in many motels over the years and have never seen a handicapped person in the pool. That doesn’t mean they don’t, it’s just that it’s very infrequent. It’s essentially the same as “ladies only”, “you must be this tall to ride this ride”, “no one under 18 permitted”, etc. We deal with it. We accommodate you when we can. This used to be a country of majority rules, but now the minorities get everything they want, regardless of the expense or usage. This mandatory use of permanent lifts is as silly and wasteful as mandating that all street signs must be in lower case letters so elderly people can read them easier! Really, it’s true.
        Subject: [bdn] Re: Maine innkeepers concerned over ADA requirement to put lifts in pools, hot tubs

  • Oh and the Obama Administration cares about small business enough to regulate them out of business.

    • Anonymous

      Feel free to read the explanation of this regulation. One excerpt ” On June 17, 2008, the Department of Justice issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) to formally adopt ADAAG 2004. This notice was followed by a public comment period which ended on August 17, 2008.” If I remember correctly, Bush was in the White House at the time.

      http://poollifts.com/pdf/whitepapers/ADA%20Swimming%20Pool%20Access_HR.pdf

  • Anonymous

    More special rights, at your expense; brought to you by the Democratic Party.

    • Anonymous

      How is providing equal access in any way “special” treatment? It seems to me that providing access to some people while denying it to others is a case of “special” treatment.

      • Anonymous

        Any kind of “accomodation” is special treatment.  It’s too bad that some people can’t use stairs or a ladder, but they have no right to demand that a property owner fund an alternative.  In the Democrats’ America, property owners get the majority of the “special treatment.”  And it isn’t favorable.

        • Anonymous

          Like have a pool that is accommodated to people without disabilities?

        • Anonymous

          They have a right to demand equal opportunity and equal access.

          By the way, while you malign the Democratic Party for the ADA, remember that it was the elder President Bush who signed the bill into law…

  • Anonymous

    So does this include ski resorts?  Some of the “homes” at these mountains are in fact townhomes, condos and hotels are owned by the ski resort.  I can’t imagine having 20 hot tubs and a couple pools and having to install these lifts.  Perhaps they already have them as they do deal frequently with large and small groups of disabled skiers.  Wonder how much of these things can be tax write offs.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    Access so severely movement impaired handicapped people can swim by themselves ?
    I can’t any down side there. 
     :0 

    But I can see the headline when the hot tub lift doesn’t  lift :  Guest Parboiled.

  • Anonymous

    Several years back the telephone company was made to lower every phone booth, even out in the country where the only person to use it was a truck driver.  They nearly broke their backs bending down to use them. Well,  cell phones solved that problem.  When was the last time you saw and actually used a pay phone.

  • Anonymous

    Rig up a swing and a come-along.

  • Anonymous

    Will the YMCA in Maine half to put the lifts in if they have pools an hot tubs ?  ?

  • Guest

    The ADA and the activists that use it, especially the lawyers that sue just to get the money, is out of control.  Another example of a law that has been warped and twisted far beyond anything envisioned when it was passed.

    I remember a friend who told me about the lawyer who came in to where he worked to do as “assessment” of their compliance with the ADA.  This was a newly built public building.  They had installed what they were told were ADA compliant water coolers.  You know, built so someone in a wheelchair could roll under them and get a drink.  Of course, they are so low that the majority of people have trouble using them.  It turns out there is ANOTHER ADA requirement, one to accomodate blind people.  It turns out that anything  mounted to the wall, etc, must extend all the way to the floor so that a blind person navigating with a cane will strike that object and will be aware of the obstruction.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to comply with both requirements.  The ADA is full of this type of contradiction.

    Another case.  A school being built specifically for severely disabled children.  The bathrooms were built to ADA specification as required by government regulations.  It turns out that built to these specifications it was impossible for the majority of the severely disabled children to use the facilities without help.  (The school ended up tearing out most of the expensive facilities and replacing them with fixtures that most of the children could use on their own.)

    There is the case of a nightclub required to put in a lift to the stage so a disabled entertainer would have access.  Cost thousands and has NEVER been used in over 10 years.

  • Anonymous

    I can see a pool where they could just put in a ramp, but does everyone need to use a hot tub.  That is a luxury as is a pool when you go to a hotel.  Not all that necessary for your average temporary stay of a few days for most people.  For the small business guy it could put a strain on their operation, but bigger places probably do enough business that they could get by.  But why not grandfather existing locations in, and as new places or new pools and hot tubs are made make that a requirement.

  • The City of Bath was forced (threatened by lawsuit) to make a 100 year old public gazebo handicap accessible at the cost of taxpayers. I’ve NEVER seen a wheelchair on it. I agree with David below, but Cranky Yankee seems a bit cranky, no one should shut up, but don’t tell the rest of us what to do either. These are hard economic times for everyone, adding more costs to Small Business is just totally out of line.

  • Anonymous

    More Big Government intrusion Just two day ago
    “State agent inspects sack lunches, forces preschoolers to purchase cafeteria food instead”
    This was at the mandate of Federal DHHS, Division of Child Development  aka Obama and Czar
    Kathleen
    Click here: Preschooler’s Homemade Lunch Replaced with Cafeteria “Nuggets” 
    or copy and paste to browser:
    http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/homemade-lunch-replaced-with-cafeteria-nuggets.html#.Tzr1CHyIM9c.email

    The Food Police are here – Guess my delicious peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, my baloney sandwiches, etc. were not supposed to be good for me!!! Been around for 71+ years so far.!!! This goes too far. Further, was this a spot inspection or does the state have state inspectors hired to inspect lunches at all the county public schools every day? More big government at work. FEDERAL LAW ENFORCED BY A STATE INSPECTOR IN A COUNTY SCHOOL ALL FUNDED BY TAXES FROM THE WORKING AND RETIRED TO DO THIS?. FEDERAL INCOME TAX, STATE INCOME OR SALES TAX and CITY AND/OR COUNTY SCHOOL TAXES!!!!!! AND TELLING A 4 YEAR OLD HER MOTHER IS WRONG AND DOESN’T KNOW WHAT SHE’S DOING?!!!!! YEP!!! THAT PUSHED MY BUTTON!!!!

    NEXT THE ADA POLICE WILL BE VISITING THE HOTELS AND MOTELS NATION WIDE AFTER THE COMPLIANCE DATE NEXT MONTH AND, WITH SUCH SHORT NOTICE SINCE THE DOJ “CLARIFICATION” NOTICE, I’M SURE THE NON-COMPLIANCE NOTICES AND FINES WILL START FLYING. WAY TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT CONTROL ERODING EMINENT DOMAIN. 

  • In a privately owned gated community with no paid staff, who is responsible for assisting a  handicapped person at the pool?

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