August 20, 2019
Business Latest News | Condemned Homes | Bangor Metro | Life Off The Grid | Today's Paper

Comments for: LePage challenges backers of Maine renewable energy initiative

  • Anonymous

    LePage is a bad liar. 

    • Anonymous

      So Obama tells the truth LOL.   How is that money to Solyndra working for you.  I bet you and other Libs those Ethanol subsidies it’s a major rip off.   Obama and the EPA going behind the backs of Congress and increasing the amount of Ethanol from 10 to 15% in our gas.  The fuel is a failure everytime I have had issues with the fuel I had to spend hundreds of dollars each time to make car repairs.  That Cleanr Energy program is such a success everyone is running away from it.  The rip off ends on January 20, 2013 because Obama will be on his way back to Chicago where he belongs.

      • Anonymous

        Did I say that I support Obama? 

      • Anonymous

        Why do you always bring Obama into comment threads concerning LePage? Obama will probably get re-elected, but LePage has no chance. When 76% of his constituents favor something and he fights them on it, what do you think his odds of a second term are? He lied during his campaign, and continues to lie to us and embarrass us on a national level. Most of us have no use for him at all. 

        • Anonymous

          Actually, the federal government blows both ways on this issue—the USDOEnergy says hydro is a renewable and their #1 priority; Obama White House apparently ‘sucks’ at adopting this policy thrust and blows on about wind and green energy?

          I mean it really is confusing, there is no clear voice out of Washington; and Governors have had to develop their own priorities.

          Maine is blessed by geography and climate with an abundance of hydro power potential…so use it, and screw the Obama White House!…..alas you can’t since Federal agencies have plastered Maine with their regulations…Fish & Wildlife, FERC, NOAA, Army Corps of Engineers, EPA, etc. 

          Time to reform the energy regulations into one smooth path, not dozens of them. 

          • Anonymous

            Can’t disagree with that. I fully support hydro power.

      • Actually, Ethanol does work… just not here in the States. Countries in S. America have become foreign oil “independent” because of Ethanol. It works for them because they are making it from a by product of the sugar cane to sugar process. In other words, they get Ethanol from the bits they used to just throw away. Here in the States it won’t work because we use grains to make it. By doing that we take bushels/tons/whatever measure they use, off the market. Less supply with the same demand means higher grain prices. Higher grain prices means it costs more to make Ethanol, plus makes cereals and breads more expensive. If you are going to pay a high price for oil and gas, might as well pay that price for the oil and gas your car was built for. So Ethanol doesn’t work here. Good idea in theory, bad idea in practice.

    • Lepage runs on Koch,
       
       Koch runs on Oil!

      • Anonymous

        Fly Sussman air and burn enough fuel to heat 100 Maine homes for the winter!

      • Anonymous

        So doese wind?

    • Anonymous

      So you think King and Baldacci were honest?

      • Anonymous

        Did I say that I support King and Baldacci? 

        • Anonymous

          No but you only said LaPage is a liar!! but nothing about King and Baldacci who are bigger liars. What I really think is that you don’t like hearing the truth. And what has he lied about?

          • Anonymous

            I refuse to get into an internet argument with someone who doesn’t know how to spell “liar.” Try again sometime!

          • Anonymous

            I think you refuse because you don’t have an answer. Thanks for pointing out my mistakes.

  • Anonymous

    Environmentalist today are job destroyers Governor Lepage is right on the money with his energy plan, time to expand natural gas , stop tearing out dams and put an end to high cost wind turbines.

    • Patten_Pete

      The supporters of this are bald faced liars when they say it won’t increase energy costs. Even Obama came out and freely admitted all this green stuff would cause energy bills to “skyrocket”. 
      http://www.windtaskforce.org/video/green-elite-we-will-make-electricity-costs-skyrocket 

    • StillRelaxin

      We will never move into the future or save the future from ourselves unless “at some point” we evolve to understand that in the long run the cheapest alternative now will be the most costly for our children and grandchildren. I guess we just may have to wait a bit longer for Paul and his (Who’s going to pay me how much to say what?) crew to evolve like the rest of us.  Sad to see yet another opportunity for America to take a technological lead swirling down the drain.

      • take GRID scale WIND out of the picture.  experiment with smaller more viable alternatives.
        Green energy is an experiment and GRID scale WIND does not work.  Give it 10 years and see how many turbines are broken.

        • Anonymous

          All of them!!!

      • Anonymous

        I agree with much of what you say, except the whole “evolved” bit. Those who hold such views are no more “evolved” than me or anyone else. It is human nature to not see, or willingly look away from what we are doing now and the impact it may have on the future. We may never “move” into the future as you say, but the funny thing about the future is that it will come regardless. If history show anything, it is that necessity is the mother of invention, and that simply seems to be what it takes for us “un-evolved” humans to get off our butt’s and get cracking.

      • Anonymous

        Now pay attention.

        Of the top ten wind turbine companies only O N E  is from the U.S.–G.E.  

        Iberola is Spanish; Vestas …..etc. 

        All the technology was developed a decade ago in Denmark and Germany. Assembly and rigging are site specific; but crews, a nod to REED & REED, are imported for the job.

        Off shore conduits are being installed in the Baltic; no technological edge here.

        Making wind turbine blades in Maine. Again, more site specific since moving them on roads is a major problem; let alone carving out huge roads to get them up a mountain. Composites, carbon fiber, etc. ….want to compete against China? Good luck with that.

        There is a market for community wind…>100 KW; but sites are limited and longevity is always an issue with wind turbines. I’ve read of 14,000 abandoned wind turbines in the U.S. and have photos of several in Maine.

      • Anonymous

        Windpower is not a new technology it been used for hundreds of years and its just as unreliable now as it was then.

      • Anonymous

        I completely agree with StillRelaxin.  I’m disgusted by the absolute arrogance and ignorance of these people who agree with LePage.  There’s a flippin’ industry right outside our doors waiting and begging to set up shop and start creating jobs RIGHT HERE IN MAINE.

        Yes, by all means tell us how horrible all of these suggestions are for alternative and renewable resources.  Tell us how the slowly dieing and nonrenewable resources that keeps our grubby little fingers and ARMYs in other countries are just what we need to keep our state and country great.

        It’s exactly this kind of double-speak that infuriates me beyond belief.  These same people who want jobs and “our boys” back home where they belong should get on the bus with all of these solutions to making that happen.  Instead we hear endless rants upon rants about what an eye sore wind turbines are, how tidal power will never amount to anything and how fossil fuels are our only option.  If you’re truly worried about our children either having to learn Chinese because that’s what their boss speaks, or Arabic because that’s where they’ve been deployed then perhaps you should start rethinking how you think.

        It’s this kind of attitude that is truly becoming a fossil, and it’s powering your ignorance.

        • Guest

          Are you claiming we get our Coal from the middle east?
          Because that’s what makes electricity, not oil.
          You don’t seem to have a lot of facts in your rant and rhetoric.
          Care to try again?

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for the coal correction, but I’m pretty sure you got the point of my case.

            But based on your other comments in this discussion it appears your coal comment is the only one you’ve got in your wheelhouse.

            Perhaps you would “care to try again”?

            Also, here are some helpful links to efforts being made towards renewable resources in Maine:

            http://www.e2tech.org/

            http://umaine.edu/epscor/

            http://www.umaine.edu/sustainabilitysolutions/index.htm

            I’d also like to point out that history is replete with skeptics and naysayers who were afraid of change.  I get it, change is scary and hard.  Especially when it’s in an effort to stop a bad habit.  No matter how long you put off the inevitable, it’s still by it’s very nature inevitable.  Coal is one of the worst culprits in this debate over energy and power.  Coal, like no other, is the most destructive of our fossil fuels.  It’s impact on the land and the people who mine it is horrid.  As a boy growing up in West Virginia I was taken down a coal mine on Career Day for school and saw first hand what coal can do.  Living in a coal mining town I’ve seen what coal can do to miners and their families, as well as their communities.  Natural Gas is already a close cousin in coal’s footprint on communities and their environment due to fracking and non-regulatory legislation around the country.

            Do you or anyone else have another suggestion for how to fix this problem of fossil fuel dependency?  If renewable resources will never work, and fossil fuels will inevitably run out what solution can you  offer?  Or are you just willing to resigning yourself to the prospect that you’ll be long gone by the time it really matters and it will be someone else problem?

            I hope that’s not true because my kids can’t live with that option.

          • Guest

            What other comments have I made that were incorrect?
            As for other options we used to have a lot of Hydro dams but Environmental activist told us they were bad for the planet.  Every time we get rid of something one of the many factions in that group want us to get rid of something else.  Each thing we change to costs twice as much as the thing we used to have and you call it progress.  I call it killing us off slowly so that you can get back to the green planet without people you so desperately seem to want.   Our kids will laugh at the global cooling scare, the global warming scare, the hole in the ozone scare, the global shrinking scare, our whatever scare you come up with next scare.  It still just amazes me that your groups can still scare so many rubes each and every time.

          • Anonymous

            I’m not sure who you’re responding to anymore, and I’m not sure what incorrect comments you’ve made other than just being incredibly averse to all things Environmental and still never actually contributing any suggestions or solutions to the discussion other than blame.

            You’ve dropped coal and are now onto dams.  I’ll admit, it’s all a balancing act between trying to provide for everyone while not leaving a wasteland of destruction in our wake.  Dams create power but jeoperdize wildlife and their subsequent industries; i.e. alewives which in turn effects the lobster industry.  This is where those illusive solutions come into play; fish ladders, etc.  How can we provide the greatest good for the most people while still maintaining and nurturing our environment so that future generations can survive and grow.

            It’s tricky to say the least.

            All of your “scares” unfortunately are legitimate and have ample proof to support them.  As much as some like to think, it’s not a big marketing plan to sell more t-shirts.  It’s a real effort to help make yours and my life better, but most importantly for our children and so on down the line.

            People used to think our planet was the center of the universe, now some just think they themselves are.  The rest of us just see the planet as our only home and can see and feel the effects of bad management running rampant around the globe.  Some of us are working to help fix it, and aren’t just out to save the ash tree, the alewives and the air.  We’re out to save ourselves in the process.

            If any of this scares you, good.  Now help out.

          • Guest

            OK I got to call you on that last.
            “All of your “scares” unfortunately are legitimate and have ample proof to support them. ”
            How exactly can global cooling and global warming both be legitimate?  

          • Anonymous

            It’s too bad you couldn’t contribute anything more than that.

          • Guest

            Me?
            You started out in this forum using our troops as a ploy to advocate for less oil use because you had no idea what was used to produce electricity.  Then when I clued you in to how far off base you were, you went on with your made up story of growing up in a coal town as a coal miners daughter with out any knowledge of where your product ended up after daddy slaved all day for his poor man’s dollar.  Now when I point out the past silly snake oil you people have been selling for years you say I have nothing to contribute?
            You need to do a little homework before you start shopping out your forum use if you can’t do any better than that.
            As for a contribution here’s mine.  
            The world climate has been changing for as long as the world has existed and it will continue to change regardless of man’s actions.  The temperature goes from one extreme to the other and man may with his actions cause the next Ice Age to be 5 degrees warmer.  I doubt very much, judging by the way you post here, that your kids won’t find something more relevant to hate you for in the future.
            Isn’t there just one of you green weenies with a little more too offer out there?

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for contributing unsubstantiated personal attacks. 

            I am big enough to admit that in my haste to comment on something I felt strongly about I attempted to address a number of issues concerning our state, our country and our planet all at once and muddled my points.  I agree I didn’t present my case in the most direct manner.  Until your recent posting you have offered little more than  sarcastic responses to whatever anyone, namely myself, wrote.  I know that there are passionate feelings on both sides of this debate, but I have found more times than not that opponents of industry development in alternative energy, among other considered liberal ideals, are quick to make personal jabs rather than actually communicate ideas and find mutual ground to grow from.

            Another previous contributor, ORGANICGARDNER, decided to take me to task with a list of examples of what I think were supporting my original point.  I sited a few website links as well that could have directed you to similar examples of the Watershed Program.  But even still, I hate that though this contributor and I were seemingly on the same page, they choose to resort to personal digs as well.  See both sides can be a-holes too, though that doesn’t make me feel any better.

            I’m sorry you appear threatened by my ACTUAL past, and by your comment I can tell you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

            Lastly your comment about my kids is about as low and slimy as you could get.

            It was my mistake thinking this discussion was worth having with you.  I should have known right away and not taken the bate.

            If you respond to this, please don’t take offense when I don’t return the courtesy.

            I wish you the very best.

          • Guest

            Maybe you really were a coal miners daughter.
            Bait!

            As for the children, you brought them into this discussion.

          • Anonymous

            You don’t know much about the ‘new’ hydro and the multiple benefits—recreation, food source, improved property values to pay for public education and of course the lowest cost for clean, renewable energy in the world.

            Illusive solutions?  never been to the Darmriscotta  ‘naturalistic’ alewife run have you? and the CMP power plant along side of it? or the one at Cooper’s mills or???  or have you seen this model of dam restoration: https://www.b-e-f.org/watersheds/ or the large new dam in New Brunswick that has restored salmon and alewives? or thought much about the loss of aquatic habitat when a dam is removed? or the AGW scenario of drought and the role dam impounds would play in storing water for such an event? or the run off problem mitigated by systems of dams, like those on the Androscoggin.

            Get out of your cave and start looking at the real world. 

          • Anonymous

            You are right about the negative side of coal. What is nonsensical is the US pushing for wind turbines to enable coal fired power plants to continue operating (by RECs) and allowing the coal industry to sell more coal to China!! It must take 600,000 barrels of diesel fuel to ship the coal to China. Our policy is crazy. Think tidal and new nukes, not half century old technology like Fukoshima.

        • Patten_Pete

          You have not a clue my friend. The Governor is absolutely correct that a MANDATE will bring true harm to the Maine ratepayer, particularly when the federal Production Tax Credit dies. Most of the enviro groups shilling for this are beholden to the wind industry thanks to big contributions, e.g., $500,000 in “mitigation funds” they recently were given by TransCanada.

          If you would study industrial wind, you’d know it was a ripoff scam designed by n one other than Enron. It reduces no CO2, but screws up places like Maine bigtime. It’s why Denmark no longer allows turbines on land! It’s why T. Boone Pickens abandoned wind.

      • Anonymous

        The free market IS evolution.  The centrally planned economy you support is more akin to creationism than evolution.

    • Not to mention Obama not allowing the Canadian pipeline to Texas.  He gave no reasons because he is the King but we all know he was paying his environmental friends for the votes at his election a few years ago and securing those same votes for this year.  Meanwhile, he is destroying the USA but there are casualties in every war.  For anyone having questions about his intelligence, it should now be clear, he is just plain stupid.

      • Us refiners are NET exporters of gasoline. They are currently at 86 % of production Any of the oil going through the US from Canada to Texas will ultimately end up sold to foriegn nations, but all the potential spills and pollution from the refineries will end up in America!

        The winner, —–China and the Oil Refinery Companies!

        Also, remember when the price of gas went up because of hurricanes shutting down refineries we where told (Supply and Demand) and then it continues to go up when US demand falls!

        • Anonymous

          I heard Chelly ‘explain’ how the pipeline would move foreign(CANADA) oil to the Gulf where it would be shipped to China….Kinda long route, like taking the ferry to Portland and a bus to Lincolnville? “it’s a long, tortuous route to ship oil through the Gulf of Mexico and around Africa’s Cape of Good Hope or South America’s Cape Horn,” (National Geographic, 2011)

          The oil, if it gets to either Portland via the pipeline from Montreal; or Vancouver via a trans Canadian pipeline will get sold to European buyers or Asia.

          I wish her command of oil shipping routing and geography was as good as her mastery of sound bites—she even quote FOX NEWS!

          She repeated ‘ending our dependence on foreign oil’ like a prayer mantra several times; without thinking about how much of the oil in the Alaskan pipeline already is shipped to China; or that maybe we don’t want the GOVERNMENT telling us what we can and can’t use to heat our homes or power our cars? 

          Elect a nanny and you get nanny state government!

          • Guest

            Oil has nothing to do with electricity.

        • That makes you as ignorant as Obama.  What spills are you talking about and who told you the oil was going to China?  It is now because Obama put the stops on it and Canada will sell to China.  Use your head once in a while or expect $10 a gallon gas and heating oil thanks to your hero, stupid Obama.

    • My electric comes from Canada, it’s cheap. This proposal will make a few people wealthy, and make poor folks have to decide between heat and lights in the winter…

  • Anonymous

    Keep on talking LePage — you will sell it for us.

  • Anonymous

    Twenty-four cents (24 cents) per raw kilowatt before delivery cost and before taxes is all you need to know. The shame is that this cost will be melded into the bill of each and every Mainer with no choice.

    • Anonymous

      Sure you a have  choice in the corporate controlled “free market” 
      … get off the grid. 

      rotflol 

    • Anonymous

      Municipal hydro in Maine has a residential rate between 1 and 3 cents…..only three muni’s left; but you get the point!

  • kcjonez

    LePage’s handlers and the corporate industry they represent will not tolerate any competition from upstarts like Efficiency Maine.  We will have renewable energy when the oil and coal companies tell us we can–or maybe sooner if we the voters wake up and realize that voting for republicans is like giving your wallet to the thieves.  

    • Anonymous

      And LePage worried about making people rich?HA! How much does he have invested in gas and oil?
      We need a n mix of it all.By 2020,that .24 cents may be a bargain.

    • Anonymous

      Well voting democrate is giving you wallet to thieves!! By the way a lot of big windfarms are supported by companys like BP you know the same people that pump oil in the Gulf, so this renewable thing is just another way to make money nothing more.

    • Anonymous

      and you voted for Cutler?  how’s those Chinese lessons going…esp. the math where you give them dollars and get back crap that breaks down a day after the warranty expires? 

  • Guest

    The Penguin seems pretty desperate to stop this from going to a vote.  I think some of his Penguin friends would be very mad at him if this became law  : (

    • Anonymous

      yeah, let’s pass this for political reasons, and ignore the fact that it’s a complete dissaster for the common Mainer…brilliant!

  • Anonymous

    Can anyone else remember how and when the voter’s veto and voter referendums 
    were the conservative’s solutions and great hopes for Augusta’s changing direction ? It is working. lol

  • Anonymous

    That’s rich. LePage calling someone a liar.

    • Anonymous

      He understands:  Big Wind, Big Lie!  Its too bad all the “green”washed people don’t invest some time in understanding that wind is bad economics, based on bad science, driven by bad public policy shaped by wind lobbyists.

    • Anonymous

      So true. I guess the old saying is true. “It takes one to know one”.

    • Anonymous

      What is he lying about?

    • But it’s true just the same.

  • Anonymous

    It is becoming increasingly easy to figure that when Energy Efficiency says renewable energy is to be cheaper it says to me that it is a lie and will cost consumers more to make the wealthy more wealth (non-taxable of course) and it is not a plan that will reap the benefits to consumers. I am sure I am not the only one who remembers hydro dams that were producing and have now been destroyed to make way for non-renewable energy because the profits, I am sure were way to low to make million dollar salaries for upper management. After they build all these windmills and they are not producing enough revenue then of course they will need a taxpayers bailout with big bonuses for the management salaries. Can you say been there, done that? Not to mention tourism dollars will fade away because the landscape of the natural beauty of Maine will be spoiled with all those windmills that will be abandoned after the money is sucked out of the consumers. Please think before you vote and if you are not sure please don’t believe it will be any better than bad health care policies, big oil running prices. CEO’s and politicians lining their pockets and mandatory Social Security and Medicare payments taken from paychecks now to be told those programs are entitlements . That’s right I forgot that money was actually taken so that politicians can have health insurance and pensions for life even if they only serve one term in their positions. I love my state, nation and the little people like me just trying to be a good citizens trying to survive supposedly in the land of the American Dream where anything is possible.  Good thing the Constitution gives me the right to speak my mind or is that a right that I still have only in my memories? Oh darn did I say that out loud?

  • Anonymous

    Be interesting to see what questions and information the people polled were asked.  I suspect if they were presented with real time numbers that they might see a difference in percentages.  How can they guarantee a decrease in rate reduction, and would it be a rate reduction down to current levels or lower, also over how long a period of time.  

    • There is a hyperlink in the story that will take you to the poll report.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, there was a poll – one designed to achieve a certain result.  It’s pitiful that Maine seems so impressed with polls that ask a weighted question to get a response from people who have little understanding of the topic they are responding on.

        An interesting follow-up to this poll would have been to interview the respondents to find out just how much they actually know about Maine’s current energy supply, current RPS, cost implications of an expanded RPS, what an RPS is, etc…..  Any guesses as to how that would have come out.  

        I would bet that fewer than 1 in 10 people in Maine know what Maine’s current RPS is.  These are the people responding to these meaningless polls and signing these misleading referendum petitions.

        • Anonymous

          If you go to said hyperlink it appears that there was only one question asked, and it didn’t reveal much to the people being polled.

  • StillRelaxin

    LePage said, “And they know they have to go and mislead the populace in order to get this passed.” LOL! He’s just PO’d that someone else may be trying to steal his bread and butter move on EVERY subject.

    It’s probably also safe to say that Paul didn’t get his physique by ever sharing either his bread or butter with anyone. Who’s spreading butter on Paul’s toast right now? You guessed it didn’t you? That’s right the oil, coal, and gas companies. Hmm…wonder why he doesn’t want to invest in clean and renewable energy sources?

    • Anonymous

      The Governor consistently said right from the beginning of his campaign to just this week.  Energy decisions need to be judged on the economic viability of an idea or a source.  Embracing mandates over market forces is not cost effective when it mandates a source that would not exist without unduly heavy subsidization per Megawatt hour and if mandated will inevitably drive up electricity costs and drive away business we desperately need to retain in our state.

      • Odalisque

        Almost all resources for power have been subsidized in one form or another by government and taxpayers so even though they  may not be heavily subsidized now, they were  at one time.  Dams, for instance, are built at public expense, then somehow power companies get control of them and charge us for the power that our tax dollars were used to produce.  Coal fired plants are built at public expense, we get to pay taxes for them to be built and then get to pay for the power that they produce. Nuclear power plants are invariably subsidized by the public since they are so incredibly expensive to build and cannot be insured; have a very short life; and the storage problem for spent nuclear fuel rods is a costly problem; and of course, when there is a nuclear power problem we, the public, end up paying for that as well.  Oil companies drill for oil and when there are spills, and there are plenty of them, ultimately it is the public that must pay for clean up and also the loss of income due to oil pollution.  That’s the capitalist system, private companies profit and their shareholders get wealthy, but in the end, the public takes all the risk.

        Often petroleum energy resources are extracted in such a way that they pollute ground water. Even ranchers, a typically conservative bunch, don’t like it when oil
        and gas drilling ruins the water that they rely on for irrigation and
        cattle. The way in which oil and gas are moved is also a problem since pipelines can rupture in the harsh climates that the pipelines tend to run through so you have the potential for aquifers and rivers being polluted and difficult conditions in which to make the repairs. If they are located on the bottoms of rivers, when the flow is high and there is a lot of debris, the pipelines can be damaged that way as well as happened in the Yellowstone River last year.  One reason that the Keystone pipeline through Nebraska was such a bad idea was that an aquifer that flows under seven or eight states could have been potentially polluted by spillage from the pipeline.  It is easy to sit in Maine and demand that Obama allow the Keystone pipeline to go through, but you would think differently if you relied on that water source not just for your livelihood, but for your life.

        No one in the environmental community to my knowledge has ever said that only wind, or only solar is the way to go. What they have said is that there should be a mix of different resources and that renewable resources are a good way to go and would be good for Maine.  They may need to be subsidized, but then the oil, gas, coal, and hydro industries have all been heavily subsidized at one time or another.

        Yes people will make some money. Isn’t that what capitalism is about? You don’t seem to mind that Mr. LePage got wealthy selling used and damaged crap at Mardens . You don’t  mind that oil companies have been reaming tax payers for the past century? Why does it bother you so much that maybe someone will make some money selling or producing turbines or photovoltaic cell panels? Or that someone else may make some money selling or installing these products. Isn’t that the American way?

        There are nuclear power plants and coal fired plants, that are mothballed all over the country, too. Unfortunately, very few of these structures last forever. And some of them definitely should be shut down if they don’t have scrubbers to reduce air pollutants.

        • Anonymous

          There should be a mix say the pro wind developers. OK, when the mix is 2% wind and 1 % solar, where is the meaningful energy going to come from? China will double their C02 by 2030 and will have wind power also amounting to about 2%, a miniscule amount and not reducing C02 a bit. New nuke technology needs to be looked at, and the waste dumped in a subduction zone where the tectonic plates will carry it away  until it is no longer a threat. Maine has hydro. Some is sold to other states who claim it as renewable, a luxury we are not able to do here in Maine, thanks Baldacci. Nat gas needs to be regulated , we can never trust big corporations to self regulate or be responsible. Tidal power is more effcient than wind and does not have to be stuck 500 ft. in the air on steel towers.  Wind turbines keep the coal fired power plants polluting by selling RECs to them so they do not have to clean up. Windsprawl spoils Maine’s scenery, disrupts citizens’ lives, kills birds and bats and drives energy costs higher. All they can say is it makes jobs and gives towns more money to blow.

          • Odalisque

            The point I was making is that we need to have a mix of different renewable resources in order to have sustainable energy and that those renewable resources should be generated in Maine if possible. Thus you look to what Maine has to provide those resources. For every type of energy production there will be people who think that it is harmful to something else. For example, you may like hydro power and see it as a pretty efficient and cost effective form of power creation.  My husband is a fisherman, though, and opposed to dams on rivers. I think that wind power is a very good idea, nor do I see turbines as ugly in and of themselves. You think the opposite. I see energy creation from tidal waves as a great idea and something that Maine should pursue vigorously, but someone else has already assured me that there is only one place in Maine that it can be done effectively (which is where it is already being done). I don’t necessarily believe that but am not in a position to say otherwise. So it goes, but we really do need to look past fossil fuels for energy.

            The  governor is saying, he is opposed to government mandates on business. Well, who is the government. It is the people. Who has a better right to make some demands or place some controls on companies than the people? What more basic form of the people’s will is there than one of these initiatives?

            If you are opposed to increasing the production of power through renewable alternative energy sources, then don’t sign a petition and if it gets on the ballot vote against it. That way the people get to choose whether or not they want to see the state start looking into the future or whether we all agree with governor and do not want to be anywhere near the cutting edge where power creation is concerned.

            The US has lost out on plenty of opportunities by remaining bound to fossil fuel energy and power creation. Other countries are making the money on power now, we see that in Maine.  And since pretty  much all companies producing power sell it to the highest bidder – it is, after all,  the business of business to make money, Maine residents will find themselves paying increasingly higher rates no matter who produces the power or where it comes from. 

          • Anonymous

            So you want renewable if it is not hydro? OK, let’s not build new dams, let’s make the older ones more productive with fishways designed by biologists not accountants. The US has saved a lot of money by not investing where the payback is so meager(wind turbines).  Europe has driven itself to a financial brink by foolish subsidizing, and the wind industry is responsible for closing many factories when the renewable bubble burst. The energy czar in Spain claims for their renewable industry to survive, they need new suckers, the us. Why would we allow this? If we ae bound to fossil fuels lets conserve. The shipping industry uses nearly a million gallons of diesel fuel to cross the Pacific. The cruise industry ships use over 500,000 for a cruise.  people could have a beautiful cruise on a sail yacht for no fossil fuel use. Why continue to burn more fuel each year and then expect the renewables to make a difference? To do so they will have to cover the landscape. It is not worth the loss of the env. Note that the developers NEVER live n the vicinity of their turbines, and you know why. You want the coal polluters to have scrubbers? OK, why do they need to ? They will buy RECs produced by wind turbines and continue polluting out of compliance. Let’s have a sensible energy policy. When politicians and lawyers are in charge, we are guaranteed that will never happen. 

    • Anonymous

      Because it is a SCAM!!!!!!

  • “Open for Business” Whoops wrong business, too future oriented, lets pray about it. I prefer to be taken hostage by big business. Hmmm was there a reason we broke away from England. Now what was it? Something about religious zealots and fat angry men telling us how to live. Thats not true must be some liberal agenda! Communist,socialist, or some other buzz word that is misunderstood and misused in this comment section. At some point some old fashion Maine common sense should come into play in Vacationland.

    • Anonymous

      Renewable mandates that force me to pay higher electricity rates and destroy business and the environment IS Socialism!  Mandates come from a nanny state mentality and the wind zealots have been masterful at manipulating pandering politicians and gullible people into supporting it.  You want wind generated electricity, go ahead and pay the premium, but don’t force it on me!

      • Odalisque

        Explain, please, how a power mix that includes renewable energy resources and conservation, destroys business?  It sounds to me as though Mr. LePage and many of his supporters are opposed to capitalist enterprise in the state. They don’t want someone, to make money. Unless it goes out of state that is. By the way, if you do not have your own windmill creating electricity, you already have no say in what energy the power company purchases and little say in how much they will charge you for it.

        Imagine, someone in the state of Maine, might actually produce turbines; even hire people to make the turbines; then pay people to install the turbines. How dare they? Make money Provide jobs? Who do they think they are? 

        It’s about time we began to produce something again. Why not photovoltaic cell panels and wind turbines?

        Rather than just take whatever the governor says as law, why not read the initiative to find out what it says?  The definition of renewable resources is defined by law so this initiative does not change that. It simply requires that 20% of Maine’s power  come from new renewable energy sources, such as (but not exclusively) solar and wind, by 2020.  It also requires  electric utilities, such as Central Maine Power, to invest in all cost‐effective energy efficiency to help consumers reduce their energy costs.

        I see no reason that a business with an essential monopoly should not also be expected to be a good citizen to its customers so I think that expecting CMP to invest in cost-effective energy efficiency is a good idea.  When I lived in another state, the gas company provided home owners with free energy audits. It also had low interest rate loans available  for consumers who wanted to update a furnace or hot water heater.  It helped their image and was good policy given that the company was a monopoly.

  • hasacluemaine

    Renewable Energy Subsidies Are 49 Times Greater Than Those For Fossil Fuel
    Posted by Institute for Energy Research (IER) Jun 11th 2011 at 10:04 am in Economy, Energy |
     
    The Congressional Research Service (CRS) recently performed two studies evaluating fossil fuel and renewable energy subsidies—one in April and one in May. From those studies, in 2009:Renewable energy subsidies were 49 times greater than fossil fuel subsidies when evaluated on a Btu (British thermal unit) basis of production. In other words, when making a comparison based on the amount of energy produced, renewable subsidies were 49 times greater than fossil fuel subsidies.
    On a straight amount-of-subsidy basis, renewable fuels received over 6 times more tax revenue dollars than fossil fuels received, as estimated by the Joint Tax Committee.
    Renewables received a 77 percent share of total federal energy incentives in 2009, while fossil fuels received a 13 percent share but produced more than 7 times the energy. http://bigpeace.com/ier/2011/06/11/renewable-energy-subsidies-are-49-times-greater-than-those-for-fossil-fuel/

    • Why is their ANY subsidy for fossil fuels?

  • Anonymous

    I back the Governor on this.  He understands basic economics better than these elitist “green” zealots who want to mandate the most costly, least effective source of electricity generation.  Nagusky is the worst person to ever move into Maine, starting with NRCM (a hotbed of out of staters), then worming her way into the heart & mind of the worst Governor we ever had—Baldacci. 

    These people are hard at work reaping grants and foundation money to fulfill their quest to have Maine turned into a forest of useless wind turbines.  They have co-opted the good goal of investing in energy efficiency efforts to force wind power on us.  When the heavy subsidies for wind go away, we are going to end up with sky high electrcity rates due to this mandate.  This group will be responsible for the decline of the Maine economy for a long time.

    Governor LePage isn’t fooled by this and you shouldn’t be either!

  • Anonymous

    Don’t believe anything Nagusky and her cabal of wind zealots says.  They lie!  Lie!  Lie!  Big Wind Big Lie.  Nagusky has spent the better part of the last decade in Maine trying to find ways to cram wind power down the throats of Maine people, from her work on the Governor’s Task Force on Wind Power to Baldacci making her his “energy czar”.  Nagusky’s & Baldacci’s legacy?  The destruction of miles and miles of Maine’s upland for expensive taxpayer supported wind turbines that produce at less than 25% capacity factor. 

    Then look at how Reed & Reed spins its support of this initiative at the end of the article.  Why can’t the reporters come out and disclose that Reed & Reed makes a ton of taxpayer money putting up all these turbines in northern New England.  After all, they have to pay for what they tout as the “biggest crane in New England”, which they bought specifically to assemble these 45 story tall useless machines. 

    The Governor is correct.  Wind power is a scam.  It will inevitably drive up electricity rates.  We pay as taxpayers and we pay as ratepayers for something that doesn’t work.  But the wind zealots keep spinning their lies to the gullible, superficially thinking public who are totally “green”washed.

    • Anonymous

      I was checking the specs on the latest VESTAS turbine yesterday and they require either 80 or 100 meter(262 ft. or 328 ft. to center of rotor). These are the equivalent of 26 and 33 story buildings and then you have the blade above the tower and swept area.  Some one figured out that cruise ships in Bar Harbour could see the ones in Mid Maine…tourist attraction or turn-off?

  • {“The way I look at it is this proposal, this whole referendum issue is nothing more than a scam to make a few people wealthy,“}

    Trust him on this one!

    Its a subject that he knows alot about!

    • His benefactors the Koch brothers want us to remain oil dependent

      • Lepage runs on Koch,

        Koch runs on Oil!

      • Anonymous

        If you knew anything about Lepage other than what is presented on this very liberal newspaper, you would know that he supports nuclear power.  Your dramatic responses do not help anyone in Maine.

      • Anonymous

        So, does this mean that you believe wind generated electricity will reduce our consumption of oil significantly?  If so, you didn’t get the memo.  

        Wind power in Maine will do virtually nothing to reduce oil consumption here, although groups such as the NRCM, Environment Maine and the wind lobby wouldn’t dare tell you this.

        Wind turbines produce electricity that goes into the New England grid where only 0.4% of the electricity was generated using oil in 2010.  Think about it.

        • and and Patriot Renewables  aka Jay Cashman sells Spruce mountain electricity at $100 a kilowatt, to a town in Mass that is mandated to procure “green”.  Mandates are a “green” marketers dream..  Do not allow NRCM to pass another mandate.  The power made in Maine does not stay in Maine.
          The ridges will all be GRID scale WIND turbines and no tourism……
          DEP must have a master plan for the dead bedrock ridges left for our grandchildren.

      • Anonymous

        Are you still driving a car? This is were oil dependancy is. Almost none of Maine electricity come from oil.

    • Patten_Pete

      And what do you know about it? I’m with the Governor.

      • Not Much,
         
        I just made my living from Oil, Gas, Coal, Biomas , Black Liquor Recovery, and Hydro powerplants for 20 plus years!

  • Anonymous

    I encourage folks to do independent research on this
    issue.  Being cruel or snide or derisive
    about our governor doesn’t advance an adult debate about very important matters…
    it just makes Mainers appear incapable of making common sense decisions driven
    by and based on science and economics. 
    Not politics.

     

    This is a serious issue. 
    For years we have been led to believe that wind energy in Maine will
    reduce greenhouse gas emissions, reduce our dependence on ‘foreign oil’, reduce
    electricity costs, enhance our national security…and we nodded our heads and
    sucked in every word without ever questioning them.  Without ever requiring proof.  A wide-ranging and impactful law, LD 2283,
    was passed based on those ‘presumptions of benefits’, but that’s all they
    are.  Presumptions.  If you challenge the wind lobby to show their
    facts, they can’t do it.  Time and time
    again, they back down.

     

    The only reason this referendum initiative is on the table
    is because the wind industry grew increasingly worried that they were about to
    lose their cash cow.  As Mainers became educated
    about the benefits vs. impacts of wind, the industry lost support.  The subsidies were at risk.  Ordinances were passed.  This corporate lobby is poised to lose the
    advantage.  Wind developers are facing a
    future where a product must prove its value and compete fairly in order to
    survive.  The American people can’t
    afford to foot the bill for powerful industries to get rich quick from exorbitant
    subsidies.  That era is, thankfully,
    coming to an end.

     

    I, for one, do not want the government to mandate or force
    me to buy something which has little value, but yet is more expensive than a
    comparable product I would buy as a common-sense consumer.  Maine Citizens for Clean Energy is a front
    for the wind lobby–make no mistake about it. 
    This isn’t about saving the planet. 
    This isn’t about energy efficiency. 
    Read the wording of the initiative, and it becomes clear.  This is about securing the future profits of
    one sector of the corporate world, and the Maine consumer be damned.

     

    I appreciate a governor who is working to help Mainers control
    our energy prices and control our own future, instead of being manipulated by
    the wind lobby for years into the future. 

     

    • Anonymous

      Thank you for your input. I had this conversation with a petitioner at the polls, and decided not to sign for the very reasons you have outlined. Lepage isn’t wrong about everything.

    • Anonymous

      Unfortunately, the problem isn’t believing you. The real problem is that the governor has been so dishonest, controversial, and bullying that most people won’t believe anything he says. If he says it’s good for us, we automatically think it’s bad. You’re right in that we should do our own research on these issues, but we’ve become accustomed to trusting our elected officials to do it for us, as we should,  because that’s their job. LePage has shown us over and over he  can’t be trusted.

      • Anonymous

        And King and Baldacci proved they can’t be trusted and Maine voted for them for two terms apeice!!!! and now look where  we are. What I think is that the truth hurts and LePage is giving you the truth and you don’t want to hear it!!!

        • Anonymous

          Actually, I would love to hear the truth for once.

    • Ah, yet more from Karen Pease, ringleader of the small minority of anti-wind, anti-Maine naysayers. You just won’t quit will you! People have figured your misinformation, misleading campaign out.  They see right through you and laughed at your absurd, anti-Maine testimony in Augusta and in these comments. They have educated themselves and don’t appreciate being talked down to.  If you truly valued the rights and power of communities, you would stop mischaracterizing what the majority believes is in the best interest of Maine’s economy and Maine families. Your view of community is one that operates under your rules only, where the facts only apply to a few people who are making an obsessive attempt to stand in the way of the aspirations of communities across Maine.  What you don’t seem to realize is by spewing misinformation, you continue to harm our communities and the gross exaggerations have forced people with legitimate concerns into silence. The Maine we grew up in would NOT have seen its citizens lied to repeatedly and misled publicly by a few angry, ‘getting to no’ naysayers.  It would NOT see our our communities and good, hardworking Mainers threatened with law suits that are based on false claims and based on a self-interest that only ends up benefiting lawyers. The Maine we grew up is what is happening in our communities, the reality that you can’t seem to accept, that these communities have done their homework and have made the decision to support a future of wind energy as a vital part of Maine’s economy.

      You couldn’t have said it better on your blog – “There’s a good chance I’ll also make a fool of myself many times over”. Sadly the fool you are repeatedly making here aims to hurt our state and our future dearly. Enough is enough.

      • Anonymous

        Hey there, Friends of Fox Islands Wind.

        Thanks for reading my blog and for giving me that little plug.  :o)  Again. (You know, you really ought to get a new zinger, though…)

        I fear this type of comment is not going to give you the desired results.  Do you begrudge me a right to speak my mind, share my opinion, try to pass on what I’ve learned to others?  I’m doing it honestly, openly, and courageously.  Trust me, if you think it’s a cakewalk to stand up to the wind industry, you’ve got another think coming.  Of course, for all I know, you could BE the wind industry.  You’re certainly reacting in a very defensive way.  Perhaps you’re George B?  A man with a huge stake in the game?  Or maybe Adam L., a young man who seems to get an adrenalin rush from treating others poorly?

        No, I don’t know who you are, and frankly, sparring with you is a poor utilization of time.  You can’t hide behind your screen name and expect to be respected by those of us who are brave enough and transparent enough to stand behind our words.

        If you wish to ‘come out of the closet’– and if you can prove that this referendum will not cost Mainers– I would be happy to listen.  Show me verifiable data and the conversation changes, doesn’t it?  However, I believe that if you had that proof, you’d simply supply THAT as your comment, instead of sniping at me anonymously. 

        But it appears that the data from Vinalhaven proves just the opposite.  Even if FIW takes into account the 1 cent per kwh surcharge the company claims is due to having to fight in court to defend against and circumvent the DEP’s finding that the three turbines on-island were out of compliance (sorry for the run-on sentence), the island’s electric rates are STILL double what they were prior to the island’s turbines coming online.

        Still, if you wish to have an adult conversation, I am willing.  This is a serious issue and factual discourse is called for.  I am not a ‘leader’ of anyone, but I am an equal citizen in a growing coalition which is debating this issue using science and economics and common sense.  We welcome opposing views.

        If you are a Vinalhaven Islander, please try to come to the premier of Windfall, which will be shown at The Strand Theater in Rockland on Saturday, March 3rd at 2:00p.m.  A generous benefactor has made a fund available so that any island resident can see the documentary for free.  To view the trailer, go here:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBYjZG8O6qE&feature=related

        I hope to see you there!  Maybe wear a pinwheel in your lapel so I can recognize you and say hello?  (Okay, so I was being a little facetious.  It’s a self defense mechanism, you know.  Being mocked is never fun, and having it happen online is a little rough…)

        Please have an open mind and take advantage of the opportunity to see this movie.

        Respectfully,
        Karen Pease
        Lexington Twp., Maine

        P.S.  I actually have 2 blogs: http://karenbesseypease.blogspot.com/ (which is for fun) and http://voicesonwind.blogspot.com/ (which is where I try to post articles on wind development, and share the experiences of other people who have been impacted by industrial wind in some way.)   You are welcome to visit either one.  All I ask is that you treat others with respect if you leave a comment. 

      • Anonymous

        Actually, everything she said is true.

        If you have compelling information that substantiates the claims of the wind industry, as opposed to personal verbal assaults, let’s hear it.  I’ll check back later.

      • Anonymous

        The communities have spoken, more are passing strict wind ordinances to protect their citizens from the cabal of wind developers. Thanks to the island people who spoke up, and the Mars Hill aggrieved homeowners, many more towns will see the problems with industrial wind scammers and pass regs. to prevent excessive noise or insufficient setbacks. That is not asking too much , but the flatlander developers are howling mad. Maybe they should put the turbines in their own backyards?

  • {“They are lying to you,” LePage said}
     
    Trust Him on this one,
     
    Its a subject that he knows alot about!

    • Anonymous

      Partisan and shallow comment.

      • But TRUE!

      • Anonymous

        It’s not partisan or shallow. He is an absolute liar and has proven it consistently.

        • Anonymous

          Present your facts…PLEASE!

  • Anonymous

    Wind power is empty economics enabled by pernicious public policy. For the financial benefit of a tiny few, it is a rigged game that misappropriates math and science and falsely exploits the  well attentions of a naive and trusting public in the name of a greater good. It is neither great nor good.

    Without massive government supports forced upon us, with costs borne by the taxpayer, the ratepayer, the sufferer and the environment, it would simply not exist.

    To this charge, the wind merchants exclaim “give us time, we will one day be able to stand on our own”. But this is a fraudulent claim which can never be made good, short of a fundamental change in the laws of physics.

    This dog won’t hunt. Ever.

    • What good is measuring  the economic benefit by the  Laws of Physics, in a World destroyed by Chemistry?

      • Anonymous

        Those laws of physics tell you an object at rest will remain at rest and an object in motion will remain in motion at the same speed and direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. Like a wind mill will stay in motion while the wind blows and will remaine at rest when it is not and there lies the problem, wind is an unbalance force. Not reliable!!!

  • Anonymous

    Renewable = code word for Wind Power.

    The wind industry in Maine has had to back off some of the original major claims it made to justify its desecration of our beautiful state. A good example is their false claim that wind will get us off oil. Another is that wind will have an effect on CO2. You just don’t hear these as often as you once did and part of the reason might be due to the fact that we showed them to be outright lies. THEY ARE LIARS.
     
    These days the wind industry is pandering and pushing itself as a provider of jobs. That somehow wind will help the economy.
     
    These claims remind us of the broken window fallacy:

    Bastiat’s original parable of the broken window from Ce qu’on voit et ce qu’on ne voit pas (1850):
    Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James Goodfellow, when his careless son happened to break a pane of glass? If you have been present at such a scene, you will most assuredly bear witness to the fact that every one of the spectators, were there even thirty of them, by common consent apparently, offered the unfortunate owner this invariable consolation—”It is an ill wind that blows nobody good. Everybody must live, and what would become of the glaziers if panes of glass were never broken?”Now, this form of condolence contains an entire theory, which it will be well to show up in this simple case, seeing that it is precisely the same as that which, unhappily, regulates the greater part of our economical institutions.Suppose it cost six francs to repair the damage, and you say that the accident brings six francs to the glazier’s trade—that it encourages that trade to the amount of six francs—I grant it; I have not a word to say against it; you reason justly. The glazier comes, performs his task, receives his six francs, rubs his hands, and, in his heart, blesses the careless child. All this is that which is seen.But if, on the other hand, you come to the conclusion, as is too often the case, that it is a good thing to break windows, that it causes money to circulate, and that the encouragement of industry in general will be the result of it, you will oblige me to call out, “Stop there! Your theory is confined to that which is seen; it takes no account of that which is not seen.”It is not seen that as our shopkeeper has spent six francs upon one thing, he cannot spend them upon another. It is not seen that if he had not had a window to replace, he would, perhaps, have replaced his old shoes, or added another book to his library. In short, he would have employed his six francs in some way, which this accident has prevented.[1][2]”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
     
    The reality of wind power in Maine is it creates short term construction jobs as well as short term related jobs such as that of the Portland lawyer who is paid to say that fishermen on Maine’s pristine lakes care not for the scenery, but only the fish. Or jobs for so called biologists who will make pronouncements at the Vinalhaven wind site that “there are no bats on Vinalhaven”.
     
    We cannot dispute these jobs. They are real, but temporary.
     
    NRCM and other wind cheerleaders have stepped way out of their bailiwicks and weighed in on job creation. You’ll hear them talk about the 300 Maine companies that have benefited from wind projects. What they don’t tell you is some of those they’ve counted have done little more than sell a few boxes of nails. No matter how trivial they count them. Another thing they will not tell you is that 300 companies, with all due respect, represent but a tiny fraction of Maine’s 34,942 firms according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
    http://www.census.gov/econ/susb/
     
    Moreover, there is no mention about the strain that wind power’s inevitable higher electricity rates place on all 34,942 firms. Without question, our high electricity rates are a MAJOR obstacle to our existing businesses and attracting new businesses. So while some of the largest companies can afford to dispatch their workers complete with construction vests to hearings to testify for wind projects (and they exit in mass at 4PM), these are but a vocal minority. The vast majority of Maine businesses will be affected very adversely if we keep protecting these wind companies at the expense of lower priced electricity providers.
     
    Also, tourism and “Quality of Place” will be hurt.
     
    Thankfully, the U.S. is finally waking up to the great green jobs scam and so are Mainers. 

    Thank you Governor LePage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Please read about the myth of all their green jobs claims at:
    http://www.windtaskforce.org/page/myth-of-green-jobs

  • When the business community, ala Reed and Reed, come out and contradict LePage in public then it’s past time to realize that someone is lying to the public for a political reason. Reed and Reed are a company in business to make money. When they come out and state, for the record, that diversity is a good thing then it’s time that we all take a good long look down the road and see just what it is that LePage does not want us to see. That and ask the big ‘800 lbs gorilla in the room’ question; WHY ? Diversification is a business principle that has been espoused for over 100 years at every business and banking school in the country. Through diversification, competition is created. Why LePage is against competition is a question that more than a few should be asking themselves. And given that LePage has already created his re-election committee, it shows just how worried LePage is regarding his position.

    That he’s also pushing for a reduction in competition is also troubling. Makes me wonder just who’s agenda he’s pushing and for what reason. Maine needs every option it can get in supplying electricity. But it needs to be done here in Maine, not buying it from Canada like LePage keeps pushing, not matter how subtle he tries to hide it. Buying power from Canada is OUT-SOURCING, no matter how you word it. As much as some may not like the windmill’s in Mars Hill or on Stetson Mountain, they are providing power here. What needs to be more importantly examined and fixed is the fact that this power that we need here in Maine is being sent over to Canada at our expense. I am sorry but since when is Maine responsible for Canada’s power ? Every businessowner in this State keeps telling the media that energy costs are the prime reason that they can’t expand, more so than the hiring cost’s. If this is so, then every time Maine sends power to Canada we are screwing our own economy and citizen’s by shipping, literally, jobs over the border. If I’m wrong, please, someone tell me. I’ve had to take the ‘smack’ before, as we all have had to from time to time. But if the power problem is so bad, as LePage argues, than why are so many so adamantly arguing against the very solutions that are here ? Makes one wonder who’s really behind it, don’t it ? 

    • Anonymous

      Are you familiar with who is taking the government subsidies off construction of wind farms?  You want to talk about dirty politics?  How about dirty business, Reed and Reed are the contracted firm for wind farm projects.  Are you crazy?  This just makes you look ignorant and blind to the inefficiencies of wind farms.  

      • Fine. If the gov’t subsidizes the construction of the windmill’s then get involved in the political process and elect someone that won’t ‘go along to get a long’ in the permitting process. But one also has to look at the entire process, especially the PUC processing. Talk about dirty ! Just look at the PUC and their claims of integrity when it comes to ‘outside’ work from the Commission. Look at the last Board Chairman’s actions just before he resigned and went to work for 1st Wind. Talk about Conflict of Interest ! The PUC is a wholly dependent arm of the Governor’s Office. A good long look at the State’s Government ‘flow chart’ will show you that. You want to change the system and get a more balanced perspective on the PUC’s Board, go and get involved in the political process. That also means getting the Legislature off it’s collective tookus and passing some actually effective legislation concerning Conflict of Interest and Integrity issue’s. A great many State’s have gone to extreme length’s to prevent thsese types of action’s from happening. Why Maine hasn’t is both a big question and a huge embarassment. If LePage wants to make his ‘mark’ on Maine’s history I, for one, couldn’t think of a better way to do it. The only question now is, is he gonna’ do it ? Only time, and character, will tell.

    • Anonymous

      Well, you asked, so here it is.  You’re wrong.

      How can you say that a government mandate requiring consumers to buy a specific product (wind power in Maine’s case) fosters competition.  Indeed, it is the antithesis of competition.  A renewable portfolio standard IS a government mandate of this type.  Don’t let the NRCM or Environment Maine tell you any differently.

      Governor LePage didn’t suggest that new renewables (wind power in Maine’s case) not be allowed on the grid, he simply wants them to compete with other suppliers so that ratepayers get the best rates on the electricity they buy.  THAT is competition.

      You bet Reed and Reed are in business to make money.  They support this initiative because it MANDATES the use of wind power.  Reed and Reed make many millions erecting wind turbines – any surprises there?  Their interest is more about what’s good for Reed and Reed than about what’s good for the rest of us.

      • Fine, then someone tell me why Maine is so far behind the bio-gas market as an alternative to wind ? If gas is such a wonderful replacement for oil for heating, then why aren’t we using it more ? Maine has bio-gas coming out it’s ear’s courtesy of the woodmill’s and the various landfill’s, the most public example being that of the Univ. of Maine @ Bangor being heated from the bio-gas that is being pumped from the Casella facility in Bangor’s Mt. Trashmore to the University’s heating plant. There is even a company in California, Bloom Energy, that makes electrical generating plants that use a combiation of bio-gas and water to produce electricity. And they are doing so well that both FED-EX and Walmart are using their power generator’s as PRIME SOURCE for some of their facillities at rate’s that, if they were ever compared with the Big Three electric companies here in Maine, would make them blush in embarassment. No, I don’t work or ‘rep’ for Bloom. But their technology is an obvious application that Maine needs to be looking at. So quit complaining and get off your keester and start looking and working for a solution. That’s what LePage, not to mention the market, is suppossed to be doing, not trying to buy (OUT-SOURCING !!) our electricity from Canada. Money is short enough here as it is. Why spend it out of the country for something we can produce here on our own.

    • Anonymous

      Reed & Reed owns the biggest crane in New England bought solely for turbines. Their heads are piggishly and squarely in the subsidy trough – filled from your wallet.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry, me  and my (thin) wallet can’t afford this initiative!

  • Guest

    I don’t know about the rest of you but from what I can see looking at my bank account the cost of energy has only gone up in the past years and is showing no sign of changing direction. I see no hope in changing that direction as long as we have leaders like LePage who have no creativity and foresight to foster change that actually impacts our wallets in a positive way. Until we get off top dead center on legacy energy nothing will change, until we stop electing politicians who are beholding to entrenched energy interests nothing will change and when you have a serial liar publically calling others liars nothing will change.

    • Anonymous

      So, you favor government mandates to purchase electricity from specific generators regardless of the cost to Maine ratepayers?  Do you not see any problems with this?

      • Guest

        Since you read into my words things that aren’t there let me say it differently. Actually what I’m saying is the knuckle dragging policies that have brought us to this pathetic place are proving only to fill corporate pockets and empty ours, I fail to see how continuing in the same direction will be any benefit. I hope that makes it clear?

        • Anonymous

          Well, the article was about a group’s pursuit of an expansion of our current government mandate to purchase electricity generated by specific “new” renewables.  (In Maine, this means wind power.)  

          Fifty percent of the electricity generated in Maine comes from renewable sources already.  However, most of it does not qualify as a ” new renewable” because of the statutory (political) definition of renewable.  In other words, special interests groups (NRCM, Environment Maine, etc.) have lobbied hard to dictate what qualifies as a new renewable in Maine – to make sure it is the renewable source that THEY are promoting.  And, of course, they are getting the full support of the industry that will profit from these mandates.

          This type of manipulation of our energy supply by these special interest groups doesn’t really sound much better than the one you are criticizing, does it?

    • Anonymous

      If you think wind is going to lower you rate you wrong. Look at Demark the biggest producer of wind and some of the highest energy cost.

      • Guest

        It was 1 degree outside this morning; I’m very comfortable indoors with a tee shirt on and using no oil or wind is what I’m talking about.

        • Anonymous

          Same here no oil in 7 years Burning wood a true renewable energy. Been cutting off the same wood lot, the trees I cut first have regrow and are ready to cut again the lots never been cleared and there alway trees of all sizes. That’s renewable. No wind will ever be used here except the wind blowing threw the windows in the summer to cool the house.

          • Guest

            You got it, couple the wood heat with a house that takes advantage of passive solar by being orientated to the sun correctly make it an effective, easy, inexpensive way to heat a home. Having said that I realize this isn’t a solution that will work for everyone or many, but works great for me.

  • Paul says they are lying.  If anyone knows a lot about lying, it’s lePage

    • Anonymous

      And King and Baldacci were so honest!!!! Give me a break!!!

  • Anonymous

    If the federal subsidies for wind power expire and Mainer’s pass this referendum the exhorbitant cost of wind power will shift from the US taxpayer to the Maine taxpayer and ratepayer.   Long term contracts for wind generation will be signed at significant premiums to existing rates, locking Mainer’s into higher costs at a time when natural gas generation could lower electric rates since gas is expected to remain cheap for the forseeable future.  Wind power cannot compete without a huge surcharge on electric bills.  Thank you Governor LePage for your common sense approach to Maine’s energy problems.

  • Anonymous

    I support getting 20% of our energy from married,gay producers.

    • Anonymous

      What does that even mean? Are you homophobic, or do you just believe that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms to be your business? I don’t understand your comment.

      • Anonymous

        A phobia is a fear just because you don’t like something doesn’t make you phobic. But anyway back to the subject.

  • Anonymous

    They’ve done this to us in Vermont. There’s millions of dollars sitting in a fund while the taxes in the state keep rising. No one seems to care about how much it costs. Again people working to get laws passed so they can start a business on the taxpayers back.
    The money comes from the extra added into our utility bills, just another hidden TAX!

  • Wind is a destrutive scam..ask the people who sued Mars Hill before they were paid off and silenced, who sued to try to save Pleasant Pond, at Vinylhaven where you can find on youtube how they were lied to..and on the Maine Task Force website that has all the real facts of this ineffective scam..the expedited wind law by Baladacci is sadly unconstitutional and gives the rights to the wealthy corporate entities pushing this horrific thing and ruining our way of life. There are many intelligent Mainers who know the facts on this and could be of great service in getting the public straight- I am glad LePage is trying to do the same.

  • midmainer

    “The way I look at it is this proposal, this whole referendum issue is nothing more than a scam to make a few people wealthy”The most idiotic statement to come from lePage’s mouth since the buffalo/black fly count claim. perhaps he is actually talking about his plan to ramp up use of natural gas, gas that will benefit those people he met with in pennsylvania last year while claiming to be busy meeting with republican governors. Renewable will save Mainers money, and help lower our massive unemployment rate. Those are two things that apparently LePage cares nothing about.

    • Anonymous

      midmainer: “Renewable will save Mainers money, and help lower our massive unemployment rate.”

      Please provide data that backs this up.  Use figures for permanent jobs, not temporary.

  • Does anyone remember all those hydro dams we had ?

    • I spent time in a few, literally!

      Hydro is the best way to go!

  • Anonymous

    Must own a bunch of oil and gas company stock . . .

    • Anonymous

      That because he Knows renewable is a scam!!

  • Anonymous

    The way I look at it, our current system is nothing more than a scam to keep a few people wealthy. I think it is shameful and it’s immoral that some of these folks would play dirty to keep Maine people firmly stuck under their boot heels so that we may continue to line their pockets alone.

  • Anonymous

    Good for you Gov., “Renewable” means “Wind”, and wind is the biggest scam going. Wind generators produce the least amount of energy(electricity) for the greatest cost, and we still do not know the true cost of maintaining these huge machines. Ten years down the road there will be a lot of regret.

  • Anonymous

    NUCLEAR!  Why is this state for BLIND?

  • Anonymous

    kk

  • Anonymous

    My view of this ‘contest’ is that the deck is biased towards ‘big wind’, small hydro is not considered by Efficiency Maine and other decision makers as a ‘renewable’ source of power. Unfortunately, this view has changed significantly in other states. The latest to fall was New York State which is now funding renovation and expansion of hydro power facilities. 

    Well, guess who gets their power purchased and who gets all the subsidies and permitting ‘breaks’?  Right, WIND $$$ FARMERS!

    Beth Nagursky also engineered the undersea land grab for the State until the Obama administration pre-empted them.  I don’t think the Baldacci administration saw this coming? The result was that siting of off shore wind turbines  for State benefit could only be within the 3 mile limit; within easy view of shoreline dwellers and in prime lobstering grounds. Beth wrote eminent domain seizure regulations..nice huh?..into the law for anyone  with a lease that covered on-shore facilities and new transmission lines. 

    There is a lot of money at stake, and if this passes; without Hydro as a renewable Mainers will pay much higher electric bills and see more wilderness clear cut for wind farms, their access roads, and power lines. …Doubts?  GOOGLE EARTH Spruce Mtn and check out the new ‘footprints’.

    If Obama can ‘slow down’ the pipeline deal for ‘more study’, Maine can do the same on this referendum until we sort out who’s making money and who’s losing money on it. 

  • Where are the questions from the survey?    I think First Wind paid for one of the questions.
    Wind Warriors…take heart…if we look at probablies and leanings; the survey shows….

    probably yes 25%
    undecided       6%
    probably no    6%
    definitely n0   11%
    undecided        7%

    55% of Maine people in survey are ready for the truth.

    Okay Governor let’s educate the people.

  • Anonymous

    When GLOBAL WARMING was in it’s hayday; it was ‘believed’ that an arctic tanker route would open up making direct shipping to China easy; so some proposed an Arctic pipeline instead. 

    Canadian environmentalists blocked it; and the Gulf route taken since the refineries were ramping up production for S. American and European markets. Valero for example is in a ‘free trade’ zone and stands to profit from this pipeline….never forget there is substantial investment by U.S. Companies in Alberta’s tar sands extraction centers….they fly both the Maple Leaf and the Stars & Stripes.

    Well, the bad news is that the Arctic sea ice is inching back to the average amount of coverage; and this aspect of global warming isn’t being talked about anymore…the polar bears have terminated their marketing contracts and forced to flee the garbage dumps around Hudson’s Bay for the fast growing ice. 

  • 60,ooo,000 / 560,000 ratepayers = $107.42 a year……okay..that hurts

  •  

    The government has been subsidizing renewable energy development at the cost of Maine ratepayers. As a result, energy prices have skyrocketed over the past decade and we can no longer expect Maine people to foot the rising bill.

     

     

    1. Reliability Maine; 8% of $30 billion for Maine would be $2.4 billion in expense for Maine ratepayers. = rate hike = 2.400,000,000 / 560,000 = $4,2857 per household.

    2. Efficiency Maine , a program that places a surtax on everyone’s electric bill. That’s an increase = rate hike.

    3.Add a cent of stranded cost(biomass 1980’s) to your per kilowatt hour charges—‘cha-ching’.

    4. Shutting Maine Yankee before its expected lifetime added one cent to two cents to your bill–“cha-cjing’

    5. The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) pushed by the NRCM——add an
    other cent.–‘cha-ching’

    6. Capacity payments, the payments made to standby-on-demand industrial and commercial electricity producers, yep, pushed by these environmentalists. One cent more—‘cha-ching’.

    7. Long-term contracts to the wind industry and conservation charges lobbied for by NRCM employees—another cent, ‘cha-ching’.

  • Guest

    You want renewable energy yet you took away our Dams?
    Look what happened to electric prices when you did that.

  • jimbobhol

    T. Boone Pickens ” Billionaire oil man ” He put his money in this and had to pull back. Not cost effective.

  • Penny Gray

    A group pushing Clean Energy that doesn’t even consider hydro a renewable?  That’s just plain weird.  Most Mainer will see right through this wind industry scam.

  • Anonymous

    I’m for nice, renewable nuclear power – just for Cripe’s sake don’t build it on a geological fault or along a coastal area where a tsunami may strike it.

  • Anonymous

    Hydro power is a renewable resource in Maine but it should belong to all the people of Maine along with the wind, Every Maine resident deserves a cut of the profits from this type of energy, No one owns the water or the air. Alaska does it with oil why don’t we?

  • Anonymous

    One prominent business, Reed & Reed, a general contractor based in Woolwich, has backed the renewable energy initiative because it has seen the benefits firsthand of efficiency and diversity. This one must really get big paulies goat they are non union LOL!!! 

  • Anonymous

    Defying the laws of thermodynamics  along with the religious fervor of
    the climate computerized theories that defy reality do not work.. Renewables are the farce of this decade.

    Dense energy sources are needed to power modernity.

     Any electric utility must meet the following, well known in the industry to survive.

    1.The source must provide large amountePs of electrons (it must be dense)
    2.The power must be reliable and predictable.
    3.The electrons must be dispatchable (high or low amount must be generated on demand)
    4.It must serve one or more grid demand elements(base load, load following and peak load).
    5.The utilization of environment must be minimal and compactness is a must, or it is non-green and damaging the environment.
    6.It must be economical.

    Please address , (anyone), how wind power or solar can address the real needs of electrical generation.
    basically, they can’t.
    All they do is increase costs for all Mainers in this feel good scamming referendum.

    LePage, and any thinking individual knows the enviro terrorists like NRCM are a farce.

    So is this referendum.

  • Anonymous

    In  2003    Governor Baldacci  announced than  Maine  should  become a leader  in global warming fight . I  can only   imagine  that  he  wanted Maine ( a blue, poor , rural  and cold state ) to stay cold so that people would have to use  more oil to heat their  homes .

    in 2005    Beth Naguski ( then director  of the office  of Energy Security and Independence) gave    a  power point  presentation to LURC called :”The energy picture in Maine and the Region  from ,60000 feet above” http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/windpower/pubs/pdf/energypicture.pdf.
    according  to the chart she  presented  from the PUC( please see link ) in 2003 Maine was using less than 3 % of oil and coal for electrical production, natural gas and biomass and hydro being the  main source  of fuel for electrical production in Maine after Maine Yankee went offline .
      
    in 2007,  another PUC chart  showed that Maine  was moving ahead ( brilliantly) of  all the states in the  domain of clean , domestic , non- oil , non-  coal energy , with narural  gas use  having fallen from 70 % in 2000 to less than  50 % in 2007 and an increase in hydropower  and biomass .

    So you would think  NRCM would be  happy : no oil from those people who do not  like us too much ( angus king words ) , no coal  producing  SO2 and particulates ,no just some  clean hydropower , biomass and clean gas whose price dropped just recently and whose  projected price stability makes it the ideal fuel for the next ten years !

     But here was the agenda  behind Baldacci ‘s comment in 2003 and Nagusky’s presentation in 2005  “: windpower  endorsement “.
    The wind powerlobby and the huge world coporations  that hired them needed  to have  the way paved to come in  and destroy 360 miles of Maine  precious landscape and  drive some people to madness . 
    So the beat went on , masterfully orchestrated :

    in 2007  John Baldacci gathered a Task Force  to remove ALL obstacles from wind  development , among its members Juliet Brown who would become the busiest wind lawyer in Maine and StaceyFitts , current chairman  of  the Utility and Energy committee which  decides the fate of  wind power legislation.
    in  2008 Baldacci  passed the law which would expedite wind power  .
     But people reacted and filed  appeals , anti  – industrial wind groups appeared and the truth about windpower surfaced . 

    Now  the industry  is afraid  thus they are funding a referendum that would allow them clear ultimate power to keep destroying Maine and  increase the prices  of electricity.
    NRCM and Beth Nagusky  should  be taken  to the task using a polygraph : where  are  the peer reviewed studies showing that wind turbines are environmentally sound and cost effective ??
    Please visit our website at http://www.windtaskforce.org  and read the report on CO2 emissions .
     
    The state of Maine is  sinking under 4 terms ( 16 years ) of fiscally unsound policies , let us not add an increase in electrical cost and a destruction of our environment to the current misery .

    GOVERNOR LEPAGE   , we are Democrats , Republicans and Independents , we are men and women , we are 4 generations Mainers and immigrants with thick accents , we are doctors and farmers , energy and finances analysts , we are students and teachers ,real estate agents and dentists business owners and employees, we are young and very old.
    WE  ARE BEHIND YOU IN YOUR STRUGGLE FOR COMMON SENSE, FOR  AFFORDABLE ENERGY   AND FOR  THE  PRESERVATION  OF MAINE’ S SACRED ENVIRONMENTAL HERITAGE  AND ETHICAL PUBLIC HEALTH POLICIES .

    Bring it on NRCM , BEth Nagusky and all , you will open yourself  finally to a dialogue  that is  sorely needed .
    With many windfarms in Maine, the facts are there about pathetic production ,capacity, lack of permanent jobs , uncompetitiveness with others generations ,people under gag orders to avoid complaints about maddening noise  levels.
    We thank you to give us an audience.  Corporate  financial support will not taint the facts about wind power whatever the number of millions the wind industry  will give you to blast the media in support of your referendum.

    Monique Aniel   
    http://www.windtaskforce.org   
        
     

    • Patten_Pete

      Bravo.

      • many in Dixfield are 8th and tenth generation Mainers and stewards of the earth

  • Anonymous

    Maine Citizens for Clean Energy is a pro wind group masquerading as enviros. Most people concerned with the env. figured out long ago that wind turbines do not reduce climate change or reduce dependence on oil.  Abbie Parker obviously does not understand the economics of wind power. Germany, Denmark, Spain, and Italy all have heavily invested in windsprawl. They have the highest elec. rates. Wind power does not reduce costs. It made lots of bucks for the construction companies though. Reed and Reed are mauling our beautiful state. All they see is money.

You may also like