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But..but…their rights? I thought you folks said?
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If you use your brain you will understand that the Maine Human Rights Act isn’t new legislation. You will understand that discriminating against gay people has been illegal for quite some time already — this isn’t a new thing that came about with the legalization of gay marriage.
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Have you ever seen straight people discriminated against in the work place because they were straight? I have.
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Then report it.
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Somehow I doubt that.
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Then that is illegal under Maine law. Adding sexual orientation to the anti-discrimination laws way back in 2005 protects straight people just as much as it protects gays and lesbians.
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No actually you must be a member of a “protected class” You can pretty much say anything you wish about old, straight, white guys.i
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There are no laws that protect sexual orientation that do not also protect religious views. Even if you’re an atheist, you are protected by the anti-discrimination laws just as I am.
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Well, if you “use your brain” you would understand that legalizing gay marriage is new, so now including these weddings under the existing HRC rules, is new also.
My post was sarcasm.The surprise comes from most of the good folks who were snowed by the backers of this new “law”, They took it as truth when they were told no one who objected would be forced to enter into this process. Many of us understood this to be nonsense, but some folks still try to believe what they are told. by liberals. Some day they will learn.-
Nope, it was always against the law to discriminate against gays (even against straights and bisexuals). If you’re a public servant, you serve the public and you can’t discriminate — that’s not new. A teacher can’t say she doesn’t like latinos, or a court clerk can’t say he doesn’t want to serve Jews. That’s the state we’re in. If you don’t like it, leave. It’s nothing new. We approved the Maine Human Rights Act overwhelmingly. It’s who we are — non-discriminatory :)
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True,
I do hope you remember this new found commitment to holding public servants accountable to those whom they serve ,in the future. The term “Public Servant” is now frowned upon by the Left (maybe you didn’t get the memo), I myself have been chastised for using that term. I guess it to accurately describes what it is these folks are supposed to be doing, and then of course the expectations that set forth, And we (when I say we I mean public servants and their Union thugs) . cant be having any of that.. So I do hope you remember.
So yes, there really is nothing new here. We do seem to be getting fond of making up new protected classes of citizens, dumb down society enough and bring a new group into the fold every few years, When we think “they ” are ready.. A steady march to an anything goes society. Seems we will be going through this type of situation again and again. Should be interesting to see how it works out. Or doesn’t work out. -
Whatever, you can go on and on about whatever garbage you want, but if you’re going to engage in the public, whether it be through providing health care or notarizing contracts, you better adhere to the laws of the public. That’s means not discriminating — period.
There are no new protected classes. But nice try at spinning! Not being able to discriminate based upon sexual orientation or race or whatever doesn’t create a new set of protected class. That’s a lie. That makes you a liar. If you can’t discriminate based upon sexual orientated that means straight, gay, bisexual and whatever else in between. But again, nice try at playing victim!
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You forgot transgender pansexual, polysexual, or asexual and of course those suffering from gender dysphoria.Maybe it’s the ”
whatever else in between” that will be part of these new groups I mentioned,no? -
It doesn’t matter. You can’t discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. The government doesn’t get to do that. You may want to go back to the time when we did things like that, like refusing to allow women to vote or not letting blacks drink at the same water fountain, but the rest of the country doesn’t ever want to go back to that. Put your hatred aside and realize that discrimination isn’t a good thing.
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What is felt to be a” right “vs a “want ” and using this as the basis of a discrimination claim is what is at issue here. Kinda making it up as we go, where the” dumbing down of society “part comes into play, no?
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If you work for the public, you do your job and you don’t discriminate while doing it. It’s simple. The fact that you can’t grasp that concept kind of proves that you shouldn’t be talking about the “dumbing down of society”.
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Yes, but if what is being asked is not a right, then are you discriminating?
By the way, discrimination is not a bad word, or a bad thing to do. Everyone does it, it helps us survive. -
It doesn’t matter what you define it as, a right or otherwise — notarizing marriages is a function of the job of notary public. It’d be like a construction worker saying that he won’t tar the road in front of a gay person’s house because he doesn’t like gays. You don’t have a right to tarred roads either, but it’s still discrimination. In this instance, discrimination IS a bad word and not only that, it’s against the law.
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So is jaywalking and removing the tag from a mattress. But to be punished for doing these things means that you had , in some other way already leapt way , way over the stupid line to come to the attention of the Authorities. Just like this situation we have with Notories and the gay marriage thing. If a Notary decides not to do weddings for Gay folks, he/she would have to be a complete imbecile to get caught and hassled about it. Eventualy , some one will be caught, get set up or be tricked(like an undercover T,.V sting operation like on CSI ,but better) into taking a hit over this. Those unagreeable types are present in the Gay community and fear of what they might do when this Law was passed was/is real and justified, but for the majority of Notaries who might object, they would have to be idiots to be caught refusing to marry these folks. This letter sent out was just a shot across the bow, As much a publicity move as a warning.
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This isn’t a gay issue — it’s an issue of working for the public and treating the public equally and not discriminating. That’s it. Period. This isn’t the same as jaywalking and your attempts to change the subject are pathetic.
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Why would anyone want to get married by someone that doesn’t want to do it? They wouldn’t.
So the answer for those notaries opposed is – “Yes, I will perform your marriage, though I am vehemently opposed to same sex marriage and would do it only because I am legally obligated.” They will find someone else, guaranteed.
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The first Notary that is asked and responds as you describe will find him or herself in court, guaranteed……
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Nope. The first notary that is asked and refuses will be told “okay” and the couple will move on… and you’ll never hear about that, because no one made a stink.
Eventually sure, some couple will make a case out of it. But that’s the exception to the rule. There are far more people who file lawsuits over personal injury claims and ambulance chasing than file over civil rights violations.
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I bet that “exception” shows up much sooner than later.
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Let it show up sooner rather than later. The title in Maine is Notary Public….PUBLIC is the second word in the title.
That means they are servants of the public and as such cannot decide which public i.e. white, black, gay, straight, handicapped, Christian, Jewish, etc…to serve.
Notary Public’s provide a service to the public and that means they cannot discriminate or pick and choose who they serve. It is either serve or turn in your Notary Public seal to the state.
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true, and a very tolerant view, CV. certainly, many more notaries and churches are lining up eagerly awaiting to help couples.
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On what grounds?
In any case, I suspect it won’t be long (if it already hasn’t happened), that notaries will start actively advertising their willingness to marry gay people. “Gay friendly” lists will be made, and the word will get around as to those who aren’t interested in the business. People won’t want to give money to people that don’t support them. The free market will prevail here.
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LOL, yes.the keeping of such list always works out well.
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I’ll answer my own question with a 2 second search on google. It has already happened.
http://dev.equalitymaine.org/the-issues/notaries
Note, there is an easy way for notaries to opt-in to the list. No surprise at all.
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what if notaries, or anyone else who serves the public, could choose who they serve? “Sorry, we can’t help you, we don’t like Catholics.”
Just a few short decades ago, that was the case.
Luckily, discrimination is against the law.
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Legally, discrimination is against the law…poor customer service is not – and can effectively discourage unwanted business from gays, catholics, blacks, etc. Naturally if this gets out, the free market has a way of balancing things out.
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also very true.
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Here’s a good link: http://gaymarry.me/
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No, they wouldn’t, because they did not refuse to provide the same service that they provide to others. And chances are pretty good that that couple would choose to, VOLUNTARILY, take their business elsewhere.
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Not as long as they perform the marriage. A notary can tell a woman that her wedding dress is horrible or that the husband she chose is too short or that she doesn’t like it when people over 50 get married or that she doesn’t approve of same-sex marriage – as long as he or she still performs the ceremonies if the couple still wants them to. No can legally force someone to be nice.
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The legal answer is I am sorry I am not available that day or I am no longer performing wedding services, I am sorry. A notary does not have to perform marraiges it is an options. I think many will opt not to perfrom services any longer.
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I’ve had no fewer than three notaries offer to marry my fiance and me. We have a very close friend who will officiate on the 29th, on a platform high above Penobscot Bay. Its as spiritual a place as I know.
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As a heterosexual male who worked for Yes on One,I couldn’t be happier for you and yours.May you have a wonderful day and a wonderful life!
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Congrats to you both.
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So true.
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Just go to http://www.gaymarry.me and find someone who would be thrilled to do the ceremony!
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The state’s handbook for a Notary seems to offer a clear mandate……Question, “Can a Notary Public refuse to act”? Answer, “Generally speaking, no”……”Often, the Secretary of State hears from Notaries Public that they do not want to perform wedding ceremonies or believe that persons should be married in the church; neither is a valid excuse to refuse. Maine law authorizes a Notary Public to perform wedding ceremonies so this is a duty of a Notary Public.”…..Mr. Soileau you may want to reconsider your choice……
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I have had no shortage of notaries who have expressed support and willingness to marry my fiance and I! I would hope that other Mainers have a similar experience, and won’t have to worry about finding a willing notary or clergy to marry them.
It’s important to note that this discrimination was illegal before the vote— the vote on same-sex marriage did not change our anti-discrimination laws which were passed in 2005. And since then, there have been same-sex couples who have needed notaries for all sorts of legal contracts, power-of-attorney forms, wills, living trusts, etc… and there’s been no flood of lawsuits over notaries unwilling to perform their jobs.
It’s also important to note that the 2009 law which Carroll Conely so staunchly opposed DID offer exemptions for notaries. Perhaps they should have accepted that Maine families deserve equal protection under our laws, and not lied and deceived to postpone the inevitable.
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Yet
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Perhaps I would perform the duty if forced to. But rest assured, I would find myself puking all over the “groom”, or the “groom”, about the time one of them said “I do”. I won’t discriminate which one…
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The same if it were two brides? Or would that just turn you on?
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Then why don’t you simply give up being a notary since you seem to feel you cannot adequately perform the duties. Or is it you can claim “I’m a notary public” as if it’s something special.
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Good try but until the recent vote same-sex-marriage was not in the game….A Notary who would rather not perform these marriages most likely will be mandated to do so or face legal recourse…..it now begins…..
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I have access to civil marriage now, and I have a number of friendly notaries eager to marry my fiance and I! I’m not trying, I’m doing.
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Good for you but off point…..my thoughts are that there are just as many friendly notaries who would rather not perform your marriage and my guess is they will be forced to or else…..
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I’m sure you’re getting used to seeing your guesses turn out wrong, aren’t you?
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Well not really….I see a discrepancy in Mr. Farmer’s statement about a notary choosing to perform or being required to perform….my guess is based on the guidelines as I referenced below, that refusal is not an option…..
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So would it be valid then for someone to refuse to notarize an interracial marriage? Our Human Rights Act says you can’t discriminate on the basis of sex, race, sexual orientation, etc. But you think you should have the special privilege to skirt that? Why?
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well then they shouldn’t have taken a position that is granted to them by the state, they can’t refuse because then it would be like the state refusing.
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They they shouldn’t have taken a position that is sanctioned by the State where their seal and power is granted by the State
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What some people are forgetting is the title in Maine is Notary Public. The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the public you agree with.
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I am a notary and would be disgusted if I were forced to perform such an abomination
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Do you currently marry couples? Do you advertise your services for marriages?
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so you are a homophobic?
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I think that downeaster2012 just realizes that God is in charge and not pressured at all by special interest groups.
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God doesn’t matter in issues of civil law.
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Haha, in charge of what? The starving children? Tornado? Hurricane? Floods? Murder?
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The vote?
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You won’t be forced. You have the right to not perform marriages. And trust me, I doubt many people are eager to ask someone to marry them who thinks their love is an “abomination”
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Isn’t the full title of your position Notary Public? What does the word Public mean?
The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the public you agree with.
Sorry if I sound harsh but if you are unwilling to serve the public then it is time you send your Notary Public seal and certificate back to the state.
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You hold a public license… Not a religious one.
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Well then you should give up your position that is granted to you by the state.
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“deviant 1, do you take deviant 2 as your lawfully wedded what ever?”….
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Don’t perform the ceremony. That should solve your problem.
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Let’s keep this in perspective – would we accept a notary refusing to officiate at an interracial marriage? Would Mr. Soileau refuse to perform a marriage in which one of the parties was Jewish or Buddhist? Would he give up his license to avoid marrying non-Catholics? That’s the same thing as what they’re discussing here.
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It most certainly is not “the same thing” as what is being discussed! If you truly think that, then you need to research the difference between a male and a female. All of the scenarios you describe above relate to a man and a woman. The game changer here is that we are now being forced to recognize same sex “marriages” as normal. They are not.
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Yes it is the same thing because that’s what our Maine Human Rights Act protects. You can’t discriminate based on sex, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, national origin, etc.
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It does not speak of marriage in the statute, thus the need for the vote that we just had. Had the Maine Human Rights Act already covered same sex marriage, there would have been no need to vote.
§4552. Policy
To protect the public health, safety
and welfare, it is declared to be the policy of this State to keep
continually in review all practices infringing on the basic human right to a life with dignity, and the causes of these practices, so that corrective measures may, where possible, be promptly recommended and implemented, and to prevent discrimination in employment, housing or access to public accommodations on account of race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, religion, ancestry or national origin; and in employment,
discrimination on account of age or because of the previous assertion of a claim or right under former Title 39 or Title 39-A and in housing because of familial status; and to prevent discrimination in the extension of credit on account of age, race,
color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, religion, ancestry or
national origin; and to prevent discrimination in
education on account of sex, sexual orientation or physical or mental
disability. [2005, c. 10, §1 (AMD).]-
Marriage had been specifically excluded by previous referendum, but discrimination based on sexual orientation has been illegal for years.
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I understand that but the referendum covered gay marriage which was not in current Maine law. I was only pointing that out to the wolf who apparently things the Maine Human Rights Act already had it covered. It didn’t.
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It doesn’t matter, the Maine Human Rights Act covers EVERYTHING.
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it is the same thing; fifty and sixty years ago some people were as disgusted about a mixed-race couple as some people are today about a same-sex couple. And again, notary publics do have a choice: don’t marry anyone if it’s an issue. We have laws against discrimination, and a notary public is a just that—PUBLIC, and sanctioned by the state to perform duties. It’s a CIVIL position granted by a CIVIL authority, therefore subject to CIVIL law. Don’t like it? Don’t marry anyone.
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It is the same thing. Discrimination is discrimination.
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Hardly the same comparison no matter how many times same sex marriage proponents use it as an example.
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Under our law, it is.
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Come on ! Gay is not a race or a religion !
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But is protected in Maine to the same degree. It was befor marriage passed.
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But sexual orientation is as fixed as race. And it’s not a choice, as religion clearly is.
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No it isn’t and neither are race, color, religion, sex, ancestry, national origin, physical or mental disability but those are protected classes too.
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It may not be, but based on Maine law, it would be considered discrimination.
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Do your job as a Notary or give up the position. It is that simple.
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That’s a great choice for someone who uses their notary duties on their job or to provide notary services in their respective place of work, without any want or need to perform marriages…..
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My ex-wife has/had her notary for her job and nobody in the 3 years she had it ever asked her to perform a weeding. I don’t see that changing because same sex marriage is now legal.
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My sister has her’s also and works in the banking arena using her duties there….she has never been asked either, but the guidelines seem to indicate that if they are asked then they must perform, whether they want to or not…..
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The article states that they can choose not to perform any weddings, but not pick and choose. Simple.
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We will see and time will tell…..some things are not that simple…..
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And, sometimes they really are that simple. This is a whole lot of hooey about not a whole lot. If a Notary regularly performs marriages but then refuses to marry a gay couple, he should lose his license. It’s that simple.
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But we have been able to pick and choose up to this point. I don’t advertise wedding ceremonies as part of my services, but I have picked and chosen to marry a few of family members/close friends. No more picking and choosing, and I’m not necessarily happy about that
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Well, then I think by the law you would be okay, You are not advertising, and only using family and friends. My getting out of it is that you have to advertise you do weddings. If you don’t then that is not a service you actively provide the public.
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I suspect if you only do family members and close friends then there would be no problem If on the other hand you’re performing ceremonies for everyone that wants one but simply saying they are close friends, then you could be in trouble…as you should be.
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This isn’t true. The same laws which have protected us from discrimination due to sexual orientation have protected Mainers for their choice of religion far, far longer.
If you had in the past picked and chose to not marry a couple based on their religion or race, you would have been in violation of Maine law. But since you have stated yourself that you never advertised wedding ceremonies as part of your services, this has always been a non-issue for you.
This isn’t about the notary who occasionally marries off a family member or close friend. This is about notaries who regularly conduct weddings— they have never been allowed to discriminate, and that’s not changing in 2013.
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No, IF the person does weddings they MUST do same sex marriages. If somebody is a notary but does not do weddings, it is a non-issue.
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No, your sister is not required to perform a wedding ceremony. Many notaries use their authority in their everyday work and that is it. Discrimination is when your sister starts performing marriages for straight couples and then says no to gay couples. But, make no mistake, she is allowed to say no to doing weddings at all.
Know your information before you get insulted. It is that kind of misinterpretation of the law that perpetuates ignorance.
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Umm ex wonder why? Hope you don’t support same sex attraction marriage since you don’t support marriage in the first place. Marriage is a life time commitment through good times and bad.
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This law doesn’t say, any gay couple can go to any notary public and demand them to marry them. The Notary public had to already by preforming marriages.
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Then they don’t have to give it up do they?
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So they tell people who want to hire them to do a wedding that they just use their Notary’s commission for work. Legitimate reason = no lawsuit.
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This is not rocket science, in fact it’s basic separation of Church and State. A notary public is essentially functioning as an arm of the State, therefore, they have to act according to the law, regardless of their beliefs.
I’m sorry that some conservative branches of the Church take issue with that, but I don’t care, and neither do most other Mainer’s. If the Conservative Religious folks believed in the theory of evolution, they might recognize that its taking place right before their eyes – and their values are headed toward extinction.
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LOL, Yes, cite evolution in this discussion / argument . Then think about that for a bit.
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I give you the R.I.P. ( really important person ) award for today, for speaking for ” most other Mainer’s “. This award usually is given to folks who are a legend in their own mind or who are from away. The really pompous one’s are most often both !
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Umm. Maine vote in favor of SSM, so you can say most Mainers.
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I agree with much of what you say but lets hope that their values do not become extinct. America cannot stand much more moral decay.
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Exactly what moral decay are you referring? One person’s moral decay is another person’s fun you know.
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America will eventually see the light and get rid of “moralists” like yourself. After all, “moralists” have a greater history of hypocrisy than any other group I can think of.
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As I have said many times, the churches do not have a dog in this fight. They think they do but they do not. This is about CIVIL marriage. What their church decided to do, or not do, is irrelevant. I care as much about the church’s feelings on SSM as I do about cricket scores in England – yawn.
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Such iorny, by the churches putting a dog in the fight, they just ticked off enough christians to vote against them. Pushing ssm over the top.
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Reminds me of the GOP after this most recent election. They actually believe they did not have a conservative enough candidate in Mitt Romney! THAT is why they lost! For the 3 remaining angry old white men who might have voted for a Rick Perry, they would have lost exponentially more voters from the groups they already had alienated (which essentially is everyone who is not an angry old white man).
As a former Republican, I see the name GOP name tag but is is not the Republican Party I knew as a young man.
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The legal persecution continues…..
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Baloney.
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How dare us oppress the 70 plus percent of Christians that live in the United States.
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heres thing usa is losing their minds making new laws now and also look at some other states new laws they have made aka pot being legal in one state now but back to regular subject at hand gays +government will battle the churches in the state of maine instead of them worrying about other issues aka JOBS what a waste of time in maine government.
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Churches are free to marry or not marry anyone they choose.
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I know a good computer shop that can fix the shift and period keys for you.
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R.I.P. award again for the word ” us ” !
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You’ve never faced persecution in your life.
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Funny how those who wish to push their morals and religious beliefs on others, using them as a basis to discriminate and push inequality, using those religious beliefs to persecute others, feel they are the ones being persecuted.
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Tell the Catholic Notary that he should avoid performing ALL marriages and he will be within the law. Does the Catholic Notary also refuse to perform mixed race marriages, Lutheran marriages, infertile couples, dwarfs? All of these are prohibited by his Catholic Bible! C’mon, Notary….be consistent!
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On a completely unrelated matter, is Conley standing in front of a church or a fast food joint?
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i think in front of a food joint or yard or on beach or maybe in a tree im guessing for them because 99 percent of churches have said not in presence of the god when they made their oath which is a pack between them in god not government and church
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What?
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… as I beckon my interpreter…
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Though I’m also unsure what you’re suggesting, I realized after posting that, that it was kind of a d1ck thing to say. I’m not pro-religion, though not anti-religion either. I love the architecture of old churches and value them in a community. I just have an aversion to such fast foodesque signs and McChurches.
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It looks like if notary doesn’t perform marriages (which they don’t have to do) they don’t have anything to worry about.
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ok heres the thing most of you people say its the people that are not marrying gays are wrong but heres the truth most of you idiots slam them but however the guy that says no is better than the one that says yes. most say blame church but i say blame the government for these problems and i also say those who blame the church should know that vermont has gay legal so grow up and go there and then come back to maine but no the churches now will be getting their faith and beliefs distroyed and caused to be punished because the government will say they are breaking the law well it says keep law out of church in the consitution of the united states. so if a gay couple knows one person wont and they go to them and then they can draw lawsuit arent the gays then racist
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I’m thinking, that it isn’t just food that is “homebaked” in your household.
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sorry but i was referring to not pot but if you want to ask me you must be high
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how would that make them racist???and you file law suits you don’t draw them.
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filing means the person knows how to get them and i was using a metaphor when i said because some people call looking to file a law suit it is also call drawing one in some politic terms
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now to first question what if a guy says no to marrying a gay couple wouldnt he be racist but wouldnt a gay couple knowning that a guy wont marry them but still ask then file a lawsuit isn’t the same thing yes people can draw a lawsuit up if you haven’t researched business law or know how people plan them.
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Learn to capitalize and punctuate and write a logical sentence then I’ll answer you.
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why proper grammar and there was logic if you read the post right.
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Not all grammar is taught in this crappy state and second thing is as a person with a learning issue. I kinda typed this up pretty good but blaming that on my post then your just like the state a bunch of complete arrogant people fight over this when half state have no jobs and no future in this state. With this said your post means no sense since you left no real post to deal with what I said, meaning your kinda looking like a smart person that has no life and probably divorced judging how you judged me. Hint took class learning how to tell we have a complete fool making sense when they penalize for grammar and not actual making a comment. Have a nice day.
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Why proper grammar and punctuation? Simple. It prevents sentences make sense rather than simply running them together. It also shows a bit of education and intelligene. I didn’t even bother to read most of your post because I have to guess how to read it right and I can’t be bothered.
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Then simply dont read the post its that easy.
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Huh?
Bah never mind..
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This is gonna be funny, especially when a notary that voted for homosexual sin ends up in court because he/she/it was sick and couldn’t perform the abomination!…sit back folks and watch ’em come apart!
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I’ll sit back and enjoy watching loving same-sex couples gain civil marriage in Maine! And I don’t expect this to be a big deal for notaries, any more than it was a big deal to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
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Giving a rational answer to an irrational poster is an oxymoron.
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If the notary is sick, then they should not perform the ceremony for that reason and avoid the “watch’em come apart” stuff.
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I had a minister that I knew for years growing up refuse to marry my ex-wife and I because he did not feel that the marriage would last… I was upset and very offended. Will he be able to make the same choice now if a same sex couple in his church asked him to marry them???
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Yes … clergy are under no obligation to marry anybody they don’t wish to.
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Simple one word answer….Yes
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Did you read the article? Do you understand the Constitution? If not do some reading.
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Upset and offended because he refused to marry you, or because he was right? ;)
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Gay people lied.
They said Question 1 same sex marriage was only about two people that loved each other that would like to marry
NOW COMES THE TRUTH: LAWSUITS,CLAIMS OF
DISCRIMINATION,BLAB,BLAB,BLAB.-
No one lied, this was already the law. You can’t discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation, race, sex, religion, age, etc. This is nothing new.
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Where did we lie? Where has any lawsuit come claiming discrimination?
The truth is that sexual orientation has been protected from discrimination since 2005, and it’s the same law which protects Mainers from discrimination based on their choice of religious view.
The 2012 vote on same-sex marriage had no affect on the 2005 anti-discrimination law.
No lies, just equal treatment under our laws… no ‘flood of lawsuits’ came after 2005, and I see no reason to expect different in 2013.
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Cleary it is in the post where you guys did lie so read the headline better thank you
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What some people are forgetting is the title in Maine is Notary Public.
The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you
offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the
public you agree with.Just like you screem name skowheganresident one knows you are a resident of Skowhegan. Not Norridgewock or Bingham but Skowhegan.
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I agree and the gay community can say they aren’t but they are. I vote no on 1 and proud of it
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People keep making comments about catholic notaries. They don’t marry Catholics ,priests do, if the couple wants their marriage recognized by the church. Notaries can marry any faith they choose too. Catholic priests can’t.
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And Catholic priests can choose not to marry anyone for any reason. The civil marriage license comes from the state, though.
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What some people are forgetting is the title in Maine is Notary Public. Not Notary Jewish or Notary Catholic or Notary Atheist.
The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the public you agree with.
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“If you are a Notary Public who performs marriages and you refuse to perform a marriage for a couple due to a person’s race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, religion, creed, age, ancestry or national origin, you may be subject to a claim of discrimination.’’
As it should be.
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Have to say I agree with your wolf….now don’t fall over ;)
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The problem that will crop up is much like those troublemakers who complained having to work with patients seeking an abortion offended them(the so called conscience clause)They were put up and funded by the religious right that has unlimited money to deny decent people their rights.If you don’t want to do ALL of the work,quit.Somebody who deserves the job and money more will take it.
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AMEN! And that should be the end of it!
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Reading BDN comments reminds me of how closely related Eastern Maine is to the uneducated South.
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I thinking that as I read your comment.
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Ah yes, anybody opposing gay marriage simply MUST be some uneducated hillbilly. I don’t think so. Sure some are, but many are not. I thought you would hate stereotypes.
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Yet you can not read or understand the law regarding this issue.
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Hence the SNL sketch about the Maine court and the exaggerated Southern accents . . . . . .
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Of course they can refuse, they just need to be careful how they do it.
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I opposed same-sex marriage ballot measure on the following basis: I do not believe today, in modern-day society, any couple outside of a church should be “married.” A large enough segment of the population still believes in marriage under God and marries according to their religious customs and beliefs. – primarily, marriages between one man and one woman. So, let the religious segment have “marriages” and all others (hetero and homosexual couples too) have civil unions. That evens the playing field. The devout religious get to keep the word “marriage” and everyone else can have civil unions — and of course, civil divorces.
Finally, from my perspective, there are homeless, hungry, tired and underprivileged people in need here in Bangor and around the world. Perhaps if as much energy was spent on one of these issues as is spent worrying about what two [maybe more ;) ] people do in their bedroom, more people would have a full belly and a warm place to sleep tonight.
Signed – Right Wing Republican opposed to same-sex “marriage” Notary Who Will Join any Couple in .Wedlock
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Thank you.
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Every day this paper has an article about gay marriage…give it a rest for christs sake
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Is someone forcing you to read those articles?
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You could not read them.
Problem solved.
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Why for Christ’s sake? I suspect he’d be endorsing these loving couples getting married.
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REALLY? This isn’t quantum physics people. A notary is a branch of the state NOT a branch of any non-secular affiliation. So either do your job or don’t be a notary….how hard is that ?
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So you’re saying it’s ok that the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment only applies to clergy within the confines of a church. You sure that’s what the Founders intended?
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Well considering most of the “founders” owned slaves I really don’t care what they intended.
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Really? So basically you are saying you are going to disregard the constitution and law because you feel guilty about something that happened over 200 years ago? Its time to move on!
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Read the establishment clause and you will find your answer there.
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OMG The Founders ? SERIOUSLY ? The world we live in today hardly resembles the world the ‘Founders’ lived in some 230+ years ago. They would be clueless if they were somehow able to revisit this country today in today’s circumstances. Of course these same ‘Founders’ were- plain and simple a bunch of privileged white guys- many of whom own slaves and many of whom were secular in their beliefs- so try again.
Being a notary is a privilege granted by the STATE it has nothing to do with religion period. I’m a notary and there was absolutely nothing mentioned, required or insinuated that any kind of religion was required of me in order to become a notary by the state of Maine.
What you’re saying is it’s fine if a notary doesn’t want to preform their duty if that same notary doesn’t like a person’s race, color, sex, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, religion, creed, age, ancestry or national origin or how they comb their hair. BRILLIANT.That makes about as much sense as someone on Portland’s fire department saying I don’t put out fires on the East End because I don’t like the people who live there. Well then I guess you need to find a new career chum.
The point is- that it is ILLEGAL to discriminate in this state and if someone doesn’t want to preform their duties as a notary then they have the choice not to be a notary.
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Burke Soileau, “78” That says it all.
As George Will said on last Sunday morning’s Meet The Press, “Opposition is literally dying”. The opponents are old and they are dying. As for Mr. Soileau, follow the law or give up your notary license. This is the same old saw, I won’t never marry a black person and a decent white woman. Heard this all before time to move on. -
So, the law giveth and the law taketh away? It gives one party freedom
of choice but takes freedom of choice away from another? A notary can
tell other people he’s busy, sick, gonna be out of town that day, but
HAS to marry gay people? Why? Do they now have MORE rights than
heterosexuals? Oh, wait! That isn’t what the media is telling us.-
There is no freedom in discrimination.
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What fredom of choice is being taken away? The freedom NOT to do your legal duty as a notary?
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Well then,he should give up the position that he was granted to by the STATE.
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Well I am sure lots of people got upsetty when the law passed saying people could no longer own slaves also but you guys managed to get through it.
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The notary has the right to tell ANY couple that he’s busy, sick, or out of town that day. Gay people have no more rights than any other people. How hard is it to understand that? No notary is going to be required to change their personal plans just because a gay person asks if they will officiate at their wedding any more than they would be required to change their plans for a hetero couple, or for somebody that wants a deed notarized.
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Of course a Notary can always say,
“Sorry, but I’m booked up on that date, you’ll have to get someone else to to it.”
I’m sure there will be plenty of Notaries that would be happy to do the service though. -
“…could be…..according to the Maine Secretary of State office” and the Christian Civic League makes this claim too! What total horse manure. The far right GOP Maine Secretary of State and Christian Civic League are making vague innuendo’s which are not based in fact just to further the GOP doctrine of hate and discrimination. They should be horsewhipped for lying to the American public but they won’t. The Limbaugh Ditto heads will actually believe this and show the usual ridiculous outrage. Come to think of it though, unlike ministers these people are public servants so perhaps they should be forced to avoid discrimination in who they serve. Who wouldn’t be upset if a town clerk refused to serve you because of your race, religion, or any other biased/bigoted reason?
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What some people are forgetting is the title in Maine is Notary Public. Not Notary Jewish or Notary Catholic or Notary Atheist.
The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the public you agree with.
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I believe your point is understood after posting it multiple times…..the issue is that the job description so to speak has changed and those who do the job are now being forced to make a choice based on new law…..the gentleman from Sebec mentioned above is a perfect example….his service to the state and his town has evolved around election times, but now in order to maintain his notary he is being forced to make a decision based on new law which is to declare his intentions or give up his license…..
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He doesn’t have to preform marriages.
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Yes his “job description” has changed but his serving the public has not. If your job description changes at work you have a choice, do your job according to the revised job description or find a new job. Harsh yes but that is the reality of the situation for a Notary Public. They serve the public and you are not allowed to discriminate when you advertise your services to the general public.
A Notary Public seal and power are derived from the state and as such they are acting as an agent of the state.
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I feel that if a notary is opposed to same sex marriage then they should not HAVE to perform the ceremony for fear of yet another lawsuit.
What if a notary refused to marry anybody unless they were same sex marriages. Do the “straight” couple then get to sue them? I am just wondering how this would work IF it happened.
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Yes, the straight couple can sue.
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What some people are forgetting is the title in Maine is Notary Public. The word Public means you provide your service to the public and if you offer a service to the public that means ALL the public not just the public you agree with.
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That isn’t what the law says… Didn’t allow for such discrimination before gay marriage.
Personally, I see the outrage as silly. There is no need to petition a bigot for services when plenty of folks advertise their services to all.
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I guess people don’t understand that a Notary Public is a publicly granted position, therefore subject to public law (including the law to not discriminate). It’s a CIVIL position.
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Throughout this whole battle from 2008 or so to present, I have been dumbfounded by the ignorance of the public. They just cannot seem to get it through their collective heads that there are two distinct and unconnected institutions called marriage. One is legal. The other is religious. They both use the same “marriage” term, but they are not connected. The public just cannot understand the separation of church and state. It seems to be an alien concept to them as does the study of law.
Even when I use the example of two atheists being married by a notary and that couple is recognized worldwide as being legally married, they still seem to think some god is involved. I will give the churches credit – they have done (and continue to do) a great job keeping their flocks in the dark and protecting their product. But, I suspect it is short-lived.
People are becoming more aware of “the world” and other cultures and people, and when they do, it will be very difficult for the churches to justify the prejudices against other people. We saw this proven this time around in Maine. The pro-SSM people went door-to-door and put a face on SSM and we saw actual people and families. And, ta-dah, we are not the evil villains portrayed by some of the churches.
Look around at church attendance, especially in the big institutional religions. They would not be closing doors, bulldozing buildings, and cutting staff if the coffers were being filled with gold. Look at the old people in the half-filled pews. Where are the young people with all of their kids? Gay marriage didn’t cause this trend. The churches brought this on themselves. They will need to fix it, or not. It’s up to them.
But, to get back to the point – being a notary is a civil duty and is not in any way connected to religion. If your religion forbids you from performing your civil duties, then you should resign and leave the job to those who are fit to do it.
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The battle’s already won, Chuck. The youth of this country overwhelmingly support gay rights. All we’re doing now is waiting for the last vestiges of the segregation era to kick the bucket.
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That can’t happen soon enough.What a great thing that the young people are smarter for the most part.
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Thanks for telling me I should die sooner rather than later. Hm..and I even supported SSM. oh, I still do btw.
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If you look at BV’s post,it was very clear who s/he was calling out.Thanks for supporting SSM.
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So if I want to marry my mom and my uncle (my dad’s brother), or my daughter and granddaughter, why am I discriminated against?
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Are you a Notary Public? A minister?
If your mom and your uncle aren’t already married, you can certainly marry them each other; your dad’s brother isn’t a blood relation to your mother.
Your daughter and granddaughter would only be eligible for civil marriage to one another if they weren’t blood relations (step-granddaughter, adoptive granddaughter, etc). And of course they should be of legal consenting age.
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I get kind of a “huh?” on your question. Assuming you are a notary or an ordained minister, or a judge, or fall into some other category where you are allowed to legally officiate marriages, who said you are being discriminated against? You can officiate at all marriages that are allowed by law. We all have seen those cases where a judge officiates at the marriage of his widowed/divorced mother to her new husband-to-be.
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If your beliefs interfere with your Civil duties then you should resign. Interesting idea. Can we apply this across the board, with all Civil servants? If so, then I am 100% on board with this .
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Actually, I think you can. We have to exclude the military as they are not technically civil servants. They fall under a different set of rules and laws which is for another discussion.
However, for the average civil servant, assuming the action requested to be performed is lawful, then I would expect a civil servant to do their job. They signed on to the job description that usually has, “…and other duties as assigned.” If they don’t like it, then they should resign. They are supposed to be acting for the State, as a representative of the State, for all legal acts under their jurisdiction. I cannot think of any exemptions.-
I’m wondering if we are separating religious beliefs and “conscience” type situations and clauses.It seems as of late we have , or it’s been tried, to distinguish between the two .
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I don’t see how it makes much difference between “religious” and “conscience” views. The religious views actually have some basis in the First Amendment but “conscience” really has no legal basis whatsoever.
Either way, all civil servants are expected to perform all the legal (emphasis on ‘legal’) duties of their office. They are not being asked to do anything criminal – only what has been passed by law, in this case, by a majority popular vote. If their religion and/or their conscience does not permit them to perform the legal duties of their office, then they should step down and allow someone else to perform the duties expected of that office.
I do not see how this could be any more clear-cut.
Let’s do another example: Suppose an inter-racial couple comes into the office, or a Jewish/Christian couple, and asks for a marriage license? Suppose the clerk objected based upon religious grounds or “conscience” about issuing such licenses? I do not see any difference between this and SSM, nor does the law.
Let’s add to the problem that at least one member of the marriage party must be a resident of that town (excluding out-of-staters). Some of these small towns have only one Town Clerk empowered to issue marriage licenses. Then what?
No, I will stick with officials acting as agents of the State must perform their prescribed legal duties, or resign and let someone else fulfill the duties of the law.
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I understand what you are saying and I get it, I was just thinking out loud and it has brought me to the point that I am wondering . Why have we made gay folks separate and special from heterosexuals? I ask because either that assertion is untrue or Notaries cannot refuse to do a wedding, for any reason at all, if they are to ever do them again. No exception,provision or clause that would allow them to refuse to perform a wedding but still do others in the future. . If this is the case then a Notary cant, say refuse to marry their ex, or the perv who grabbed her bum years ago, or the weird kid down the street that you have been quarreling with for years, What about the most random, the most bizarre of cases, no reason whatsoever can they refuse to do the marriage. No exceptions ,None, if you intend on doing any other(s) from that point on.
That seems odd to me. Seems that the law, our Constitution would not allow for that to be. No? -
I don’t think you are making gays separate and special. To the contrary, they are to be treated like heterosexuals – not differently. That is, you cannot discriminate against a couple who happen to be gay anymore than you can discriminate against a heterosexual couple.
The other instances you mention are not related to the discrimination in question. If the only reason the Notary or the town clerk is discriminating against a couple is because they are gay, that is no different in the eyes of the law than if you discriminated against a straight couple because they were inter-racial or inter-faith.
I cannot tell you if a Notary refusing to marry his ex, or a perv, or whatever that is NOT covered by the anti-discrimination law, would be permitted. But, in the case of a gay couple, it is explicitly stated in the anti-discrimination law that any discrimination based upon sexual orientation is not permitted.
This is always subjective, but most Notaries will never officiate a marriage. I doubt anyone is going to haul anyone into court for not doing something they usually never do. However, for those who regularly officiate marriages, refusing to do a SSM seems like a violation of the anti-discrimination laws. That said, this is just so much theoretical talk. I doubt any SS couple would deliberately seek out an anti-SSM Notary and force that Notary to perform a ceremony under duress, on what should be the happiest day of their lives. There are how many Notaries in Maine? 25,000? Really, much ado about nothing.
The bigger problem is the one-clerk town that refuses to issue a marriage license to a gay couple. That SS couple has no choice but to go to that town clerk, and that clerk, as a part of her regular duties (unlike most Notaries) issues marriage licenses. This is a much clearer violation of the anti-discrimination laws.
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One other brief (well, for me) point:
You asked if we made “gay folks separate and special from heterosexuals.”
I would say that would be true if you consider inter-racial couples, inter-faith couples, and minorities, “separate and special” from the WASP majority.
But, I don’t see it that way. None of these minorities are asking for any special rights. All they are asking for is equal treatment under the law. In other words, don’t deny me the right to rent your apartment, eat in your restaurant, and sit in your movie theater, because I am a minority. Treat me the same as everyone else.
That’s what America is all about.
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You would think the word “PUBLIC” in their name would be a hint.
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The clueless do not recognize hints, it’s a characteristic of which they’re most proud.
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Amen.
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Yes, you are right, voters did not fully understand the requirement for notary publics. Does anybody in his or right mind think those who pushed for so-called gay marriage were not aware notary publics would not be given the opportunity to refuse officiating such a ceremony? When Maine citizens voted to amend the state’s anti-discrimination law to prohibit discrimination on the bases of homosexuality, the provision in that law defining gender as what sex one wants to be considered – as opposed to the sex given them by nature – was played down. There was a deliberate attempt by the media to keep that provision under wraps. They knew if too many Maine voters were well-informed they might reject the law.
The lesson here is that Mainers should not depend solely on the media to inform them of public issues. The media has shown time after time to have a liberal bias on social issues.
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But notaries can refuse; they can just cease performing all weddings.
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Why would a religious person perform a marriage ceremony outside of a church anyway? Isn’t that an affront to God?
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One doesn’t need to be a church goer to have a conscience. Everyone has one, albeit weak.
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Yeah, and mine tells me that it is wrong to discriminate.
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But, it is ok to discriminate against Religious convictions. Sounds hypocritical
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And lying is immoral, so why are you lying?
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If they have to marry same sex couples, contrary to their Religion than that is the truth.
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No one has to marry same sex couples contrary to their religion.
If it’s important for them to marry couples, and they don’t want to marry same-sex couples, they can get a minister certificate for $20 or so— far less money than becoming a Public Notary!
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Good point.
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No one has to marry anyone.
A notary public can just say no to performing marriages.
You folks just want to make this into something it isn’t. -
She said religious person, not a person with a conscience.
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And we see that people with Religious convictions are being Forced into ceremonies. What is next?
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Wrong. No one is being forced to perform a same-sex marriage, period.
If you are a notary and you don’t want to perform same-sex marriages, then don’t! Maine does not force notaries public to perform marriages.
If you want to perform marriages but don’t want to perform same-sex marriages, get a minister certificate! Maine allows ministers to perform marriages, and you’d be protected by the First Amendment to discriminate against anyone for those services.
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So it is discrimination, you are being force too.
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You aren’t making sense. I just explained how no one is being forced to perform a same-sex marriage. Did you not read my actual comment? Should I use shorter words?
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One can always respond…Sorry, my calendar is full.
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One shouldn’t have to lie…
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One shouldn’t be discriminating…
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Making a personal choice NOT to be a party to something that is against your personal religious beliefs is NOT discrimination…being forced to is unacceptable.
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Then don’t become a notary. Become a minister instead and discriminate all you want. By the way a personal choice not to perform your legal duty for personal religious beliefs is discrimination whether you want to call it that or not.
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Hipocrite…If you can do what you want…same sex marriage…then I can do what I want…not perform them. I should be able to make my choice as you want to be able to make yours. Can’t have it both ways. Don’t tell me what I should be or not because it doesn’t suit you.
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Should a Catholic notary be allowed to discriminate against Baptists or Jews? Should a Baptist or Jewish notary be allowed to discriminate against Catholics?
That is, after all, against the law and has been for a very long time.
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No if you took a job as as an arm of the State, the power is granted by the State. You are public Servant.
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No hypocracy at all. If you want to be a notary public in Maine then you simply follow the law. The law says you do not discriminate in the performance of your duties, period. I suppose you feel you shouldn’t have to acknowledge a contract for a black person, or a jew, or catholic too. After all it’s your choice as to whom you can perform these services. Your choice except the law says you can’t discriminate. Like I said if you want to discriminate become a minister or priest, not a notary public.
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When you are a public servant, your personal choice is checked at the door. That has ALWAYS been the case.
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THen do not get a title that is given to you by the State.
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Then take your personal choice and keep it personal. Once you start engaging the public, you can’t discriminate. It’s against the law.
If you’re a notary and notarize marriages and then you refuse to notarize a gay couple’s marriage, yes, that absolute is discrimination. Just like if you refused to notarize an interracial couple’s marriage. Or if you ran a restaurant and refused to serve a Jewish person, or whatever.
Discrimination is what is unacceptable.
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Ever walked into a store and been told to leave because your Catholic? or your hair was to short? or your teeth not straight enough? or maybe just because the guy didn’t like rednecks?
No you have not. Because people can not discriminate.
You want the right to discriminate against whoever you see fit, but I guarantee the first time you got told to leave a store because you were a white Christen redneck you would heave a gasket. -
Your beef is with anti-discrimination laws, not same-sex marriage.
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Then one shouldn’t be a public servant.
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So as a business owner open to the public holding a state license should be allowed to pick and choose who they sell a soda to?
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Or, Sorry, I have other obligations. You don’t need to lie or explain further that you believe your religious obligations prohibit your compliance with state law.
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And so it begins…just the tip of the iceburg.
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Hey! Aren’t you happy for us?
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Yes Ted…I’m thrilled for you and yours. I’m just afraid you may regret your choices one day but, you’ve made your own bed..so to speak :)
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So what begins and what is the iceburg? You mean actually having notary publics perform their legal duties without discrimination? Some iceburg.
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More, the tip of the ice cube. There is no great injustice going on here. There is no shortage of notaries (or clergy) willing to perform SSM. Let the old notaries living in the stone age die off. Problem solved.
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This outrage is childish. Nothing has changed.
Before gay marriage, it was against the law to refuse notary services to gay people. It still is.
Serve the public, or don’t be a notary.
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Thus choice is preserved.
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I find it amusing and almost scary that so many people here don’t get it! They are PO’d because they think that notaries will be forced to marry the gays! Read the darned article! If you don’t want to marry same sex couples as a notary, THEN STOP PERFORMING MARRIAGES! If you have never performed a marriage then you are fine, move on with life.
As a notary you are holding a PUBLIC SERVICE POSITION, that means serving the people of Maine, all of them not just the ones you choose based on a narrow minded viewpoint. Homosexuals have been included in anti discrimination laws for 7 years now, as a notary you should already be aware of these laws.
Question, how many lawsuits have been brought up against notaries that have refused to notarize legal documents for homosexuals in the past in Maine?
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Discrimination is ok in this case, oh I get it now.
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Why do you lie? There is no discrimination going on here.
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What discrimination. Do you know what discrimination means? Look it up you obviously have a computer but you could also simply try a dictionary.
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I’m a Notary Public and have performed a few marriage ceremonies. I am not a fan of performing any marriage ceremonies as I don’t have the time. I hold the license primarily for work purposes. However, I performed my sister’s ceremony because, well, because she was my sister and it was a personal connection. I have performed a few others, all for people whom I had a personal connection with and one just because I knew them and their minister canceled last minute.
I decline to perform wedding ceremonies all the time for heterosexual couples simply because “that’s not my thing.” (I live in a small town – doesn’t take long for word to get out that I have done weddings). With this new law, that certainly puts a spin on it. Do I take the chance that someone is going to scream “discrimination” because I refuse to marry them or do I just give up performing ANY wedding ceremonies at all, even for my closest friends/family members?
Don’t get me wrong, I have no personal issues with same-sex marriage (I voted for it) and I know that most of the same-sex couples I know would be reasonable and understand that I’m not being discriminatory in declining to perform their ceremony, but then there always has to be a select few who love the idea of lawsuits, and feel entitled to take advantage of their special “law.”
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You have to be declining on the basis of sexual orientation in order to be breaking the law. If someone were to challenge you on your declining, you state the facts. They would need to provide evidence that you discriminated against them.
BTW, there is nothing “special” about being treated equally. The Maine Human Rights Act covers everyone equally. Whether you’re gay or straight, white or black, etc. You can’t be discriminated against for those criteria. Period.
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If you don’t typically conduct weddings as a notary, then you don’t typically conduct weddings as a notary. That’s not discrimination, and you’ll be fine.
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Ah here we go. Let the lawsuits begin. More special rights, not equal rights.
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No special rights at all. You perform wedding ceremonies you do it for all. It’s that simple. Easy way out. Don’t perform wedding ceremonies or don’t bother becoming a notary public if you can’t follow the law.
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Someone who has been serving as a notary for years, whether or not they have ever performed marriages or not, should not now have to declare themselves one way or the other due to new law or surrender their notary……there should be provision for current notaries to make a choice and not have to give up there duties or license…..forced reverse discrimination…..
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It’s not new law… before marriage they would have been culpable for denying any notary services to gay citizens.
Nothing has changed, Pab…
It should be noted that, had people passed the legislation passed by the Maine legislature in 2009, this would be a non-issue as it imbued discrimination into law, allowing notaries to exclude themselves.
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OK….I am trying to see thru but if you read the “guidelines” for a notary, it seems that the individual notary will have their hand forced so to speak….
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They have always had their hand forced so to speak.
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But not in regards to same-sex-marriage….
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Irrelevant… it’s no different than any other civil process…
Just like they’d have to serve as notary for gay citizens before this.
It’s no different. If religion is the issue, that is a decision for the notary to weigh, civil law on the issue is clear, and was before marriage came along.
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Asl they should. Your position is up to you. You are granted your position by the STATE. Its like any other state agency saying, we won’t do anything for gays. This isn’t a private position, its a public one granted by the state.
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Couldn’t agree more Pab.
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I don’t think they have to declare anything. If they have not been performing marriages, they aren’t discriminating when they don’t perform marriages. It’s really quite simple.
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I think that is a debatable point at this time….So in the case of the gentleman above from Sebec, just posing a possible scenario….this summer his grandson asks gramps to perform his marriage because he is a notary at a private ceremony lakeside in front of their home with family involved…..what’s his choice?? No, I am sorry or do the special marriage at lakeside and then a couple of weeks later a gay couple from up the lake comes and says we saw your ceremony and would like you to do the same for us?? Seems that Mr. Notary can be punished either way….he cannot perform a special ceremony for his grandson and wife to be or he subjects himself to perform marriages for any other…..or he can give up his license…..or he can face possible legal consequences….Crazy…..
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You can think it’s a debatable point if you want, but you’re wrong. If you don’t perform marriages as a notary, you aren’t discriminating when you continue to not perform marriages as a notary.
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How is it different from this?
No, I am sorry or do the special marriage at lakeside and then a couple of weeks later a Jewish couple from up the lake comes and says we saw your ceremony and would like you to do the same for us??
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Sounds like the consequences for the poor notary could be the same…..
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Aye, they could be exactly the same…
At the end of the day, these are the effects of any civil rights legislation… freedom of association takes a back seat. It’s as true of federal civil rights legislation as it is for our Maine state laws.
I’ve never been fond of such legislation… and did not vote in favor of them in 2005. Personally I’ve never really encountered bias or prejudice in my life to any degree that matters.
That said, I don’t really have an answer… it’s not difficult to see the harm that could (“could” being the key word) happen without such legislation. -
I have an answer! get a minister license. Then you can discriminate against the gays, the jews, the muslims, the baptists, the catholics, the men and the women!
Here’s information! http://www.theamm.org/perform-marriage/maine
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He says: “No I’m sorry. I don’t normally do weddings. I did that one as a favor to my grandson. I’m sure you can find another person to help you.” That would be the truth of it as set out in your hypothetical. No lawsuit because there was no discrimination based on the listed statuses.
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There should be NO special provision for current notaries to be able to discriminate. It’s not new law, the law has been on the books for years that a notary cannot discriminate because of sexual orientation, race, color, creed, national origin, gender etc. They knew that when they applied to be a Notary. YOU can discriminate all you want, and from your writing I suspect you do, but neither you nor anyone else should be able to discriminate in the performance of their public duties. Where by the way is “reverse discrimination” here. Do you even know what that means?
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No, as the holder of that Notary License a person should have the right to marry who they want; male/female, male/male, or female/female. The difference is, if they say no to a normal couple, they don’t get a lawsuit slapped on them. But a gay couple has the right to slap a lawsuit on them. That’s called “special” rights.
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No, it called being an arm of the State, There power and seal come from the State. Can the state refuse to marry gay couples? No, there are no special rights because they have to treat everyone the same, just like a notary that say he will only marry gay couples, a straight couple can absolutism sue him.
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Of course they should not have the right to discriminate. They haven’t had the right to discriminate for years and if they decide they want to then they simply should give up their notary and become a minister or priest instead. They can legally discriminate. Normal couple? Donno what that is. Seems to me all couples in love with each other that want to get married are normal. Oh by the way if a notary who normally does weddings decides not to marry a straight couple because that couple is straight they can also sue. There are “special” rights as right-wingers like to say, there are only non-discriminatory laws. Don’t like the laws, don’t become a notrary.
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How is it a “special right” when it’s already extended to religion, etc…?
Details please.
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I had a friend he and she want a justice of the peace to marry them and she said no because she was busy that day, thats why she wouldn’t marry them. They moved on and found another. Yet in the Gay world the justice could have been sued
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That’s nowhere near the same thing…
You’re oh-so desperate to be the victim here.
I find it funny… and strangely pleasing.
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That friend could have been sued THEN, too.
But she wasn’t. And I’ll wager she won’t be in the future, either.
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You seem to have a personal anecdotal story for every story.
You certainly present yourself as a Renaissance man without enlightened ideas. -
Refusing to perform as a notary because you are busy that day is not an act of discrimination against a protected class. Your understanding of “the Gay world” is a little paranoid.
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There are too many laws being made by idiots trying to play God! These are the people who are to blame for most of the violence in our streets today and why the decent law-abiding Americans are ashamed of there Government!
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And this has to do with this article how?
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It doesn’t… he’s just constantly upset about something.
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Again, much ado about nothing. 25,000 notaries in the State and people are worrying about the small percentage living in the stone age? Give it 10 years. These oldsters will die off and the problem is solved.
The legal facts of this are simple despite Conley’s view that the law is “wide open.” Here’s the deal: A notary, like a town clerk, is an agent of the State, there to serve ALL the people. If they don’t like serving gays, blacks, Asians, women, or left-handed Lithuanian midgets, then they should retire and join the Klan and get it over with. The anti-SSM crowd is looking for a non-existent “I told you so.”
It is time to move on.
If someone has the time and energy to waste on bringing an individual notary to court for non-performance, then they have more time and money than I do. It is not like they are the only notary for 400 miles. While I understand the principle here, for a practical matter, I’m not going to use a notary, a baker, or a photographer who is a prejudiced, bible-thumping, bigot. Not when there are plenty of regular people around. If this were an institution or some kind of class-action suit, that might be something to move gay rights forward but I would not waste my time and delay my wedding for such a small fish in the sea.
Frankly, why not have a close friend sign-up online to become an ordained minister? Apparently, these are recognized by the State and certainly would be as good as a Notary for officiating at a wedding. Weddings are supposed to be fun, joyous events. Beating a horse even deader to make a point with one out-of-touch notary hardly seems worth the bother.
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So you are implying old people are bigots LOL!!! I know of alot of young free thinking young people who voted against SSM… Then of course there were more young ones who were told how they should think and they followed suit. This divide and conquer crap is getting old.
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Hardly. The majority of those against SSM are older. The majority of those in favor of SSM are younger. Those are the statistics from a broad number of surveys. What divide & conquer? The numbers are what they are. The issue of SSM will be resolved by attrition just as was the case with women’s right to vote and inter-racial marriage. No bias or rocket science here. Those are the numbers.
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Yes, as an older person I’m ashamed that so many in my age group felt they had to discriminate especially so since so many of us were so supportive of anti-discrimination laws in the 60’s and 70’s. But remember it was a majority but not all of us.
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I don’t quite “get it,” either. I’m 57 and the civil rights movement was something we actively studied in high-school, although I was a bit young to participate in the marches. But, I certainly remember Kent State, the riots, and the 1972 Democratic Convention. It seemed to me that we were all “on board” for civil rights.
What happened? Where did all these ultra-conservative “Archie Bunker” types come from? Back when you and I were in our salad days, an “arch conservative” was Barry Goldwater! Today, that man would be considered to the far left of Obama.
Honestly, I have never seen anything like it. Look at the GOP Presidential candidates this time around. Have you ever seen a bigger bunch of truly mentally challenged people? How does someone like Rick Perry, Herman Cain, and Michele Bachmann ever rise to the Presidential Debate level? In our days, people this “slow” couldn’t get elected dog catcher. Personally, I think it must have been something in the Agent Orange.
[And, just to show you how out-of-touch today’s crowd is, I will bet $1 they have no idea what Agent Orange is without having to Google it. For some reason, they believe the history of the world begins when they were born.] -
I grew up repuglican. I guess so I could p*ss my family off but I was a extreme liberal when it came to social and moderate to conservative in fiscal issues. Left that party during Reagon’s second term when I realized just how much the extreme right-wing took it over. There was no place for people like me. Unfortunatly many of the people I knew involved in civil rights matters have become old and conservative. Seems they simply do not like change. It’s unfortunate too because we did great things when we were younger, now so many of us tend to vote for people like Perry. I don’t get it either. I simply cannot fatham how people can vote for people like him or Bachmann. I’m not sure if it’s Agent Orange or simply the early onset of dementia.
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Your story could have been mine. I was a Republican and am now referred to as a RINO. I left the party this year and registered as an independent. The party you and I knew no longer exists. The name plate is over the door but inside, it is nothing like what we remember. I am stunned at the social conservative slant. In our days, the GOP was socially liberal (almost libertarian) and religious claptrap had -zero- to do with government. Do you recall Ford or Nixon yammering on about “God Bless this and that?” Never. Now, a politician can’t wipe his behind without being required to state “God bless the trees for creating the paper to wipe my rear-end.”
It is the nuttiest bunch I have ever seen. It is so far off the rails, you’d think it was a SNL spoof!
And, quite right – we got a lot done back then. Too bad we don’t see the young people ticked off about injustice and unfairness, as we were.
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As is yourself.
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It should be up to the person who is performing the wedding if they arre comfortable doing so or not.. For the gay couples if the first person or two they are won’t marry them I am sure someone will.
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Should a Catholic notary be allowed to discriminate against Baptists or Jews?
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This has nothing to do with a designated religion and you know that….the guidelines described for a notary suggest that if anyone for any reason asks you as a notary to do something (legally obviously) for them, because you are licensed by the state them you must perform…..
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How is my scenario different under Maine state law?
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I don’t know really……what we have is anti-discrimination laws in place as mentioned in other posts where services provided to the general public must be done equally…..but now, the rules if you will have changed and same-sex-marriage is in the controversial mix…..it appears from what I understand that now a notary is forced to choose or forced to give up their notary….seems like a reverse type of discrimination to me…..
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The rules have not changed. Before gay marriage it was against the law for public servants to deny citizens their services under the Maine civil rights statutes.
This is still true today.It’s a bunchy of hooey about nothing…
Personally, there are two things that can be done that would resolve this:
1. End all civil rights laws2. End all government benefits and guarantees of marriage to all citizens.
Short of those, the laws applies equally to all, and must be upheld as such, as the law dictated before gay marriage became a reality in Maine. -
Not at all. The Notary Public provided a public service. They are require by law to provide that service equally across the board without allowing personal prejudices to affect said officiating. Would you approve of a Notary Public refusing to perform an interracial marriage ceremony or refusing to Notarize a document because the person was a female?
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Well then shouldn’t have taken a public position.
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I am just thinking that even gay couples would not wanted someone marrying them that is completely uncomfortable with it, and such..
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And I agree… that’s the primary reason I see this as more sour grapes, and nothing to truly be concerned about.
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I agree, but nothing is forcing them to marry any or advertise that they will marry couples. The are sanctions by the State.
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And so the assault on the First Amendment and religious liberty continues. It’s very clear that the agenda of the left is to relegate exercise of the Judeo-Christian worldview to only a very few people within the confines of the church building.
Not so sure that’s what the Founders had in mind…
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There is no assault on religious liberty…
Should a Catholic notary be allowed to discriminate against Baptists or Jews?
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No, they are not required to be a Notary in their religion. They applied for the position, it wasn’t given to them. Completely up to the person and not one else to be a notary public.
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There is no right to discriminate in public services. We decided that during the Civil Rights era, when many Christians felt they had a god-given right to treat minorities like garbage.
If you can’t separate your religion from your sworn duty to serve the public, you should not be serving the public (who are a diverse lot indeed). It’s simple.
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I remember listening to the debates on this and the pro-gay-marriage-side said again and again that this would not happen. Hmmm.
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That’s a lie.
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No, we said again and again that churches would not be forced to marry same-sex couples. And that’s not a lie.
If you became a notary public in order to marry people, you’ve always been unable to discriminate against couples for reasons of race, religion, sexual orientation or disability.
If you want to discriminate, get a religious clergy certificate and perform marriages as a member of clergy. Then you’ll be protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution!
There are plenty of churches that will issue you a clergy certificate for a nominal fee, and that documentation is all you need to register with the state to perform marriages.
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Maybe they were Republicans.
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Said what would not happen? I don’t remember notaries being mentioned at all but there was a lot of talk about churches. Churches are different, they’re protected by the Constitution so they can and do legally discrimnate. Even to the point of not permitting a white and non-white from marrying within their own church Nothing about notaries though.
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I believe we as a society decided that discrimination in public services is wrong about fifty years ago, whether it’s based in religion (as it was for many folks who supported segregation) or some other archaic motivation.
Besides, I believe it was Jesus who commanded his followers to love their enemies.
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If a notary isn’t ‘comfortable’ with SSM then stop officiating marriages.
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To those like Burke Soileau, the answer is simple, just don’t perform marriages. Period. That way no one can accuse you of discriminating.
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Or get documentation that you are clergy of a religion, and you’ll be able to conduct marriages as discriminatory as you want to.
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Or just grow up and do the job for which you were licensed.
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Nice response……A number of licensed notaries took on the responsibilities in order to be a service in their work places and communities just like Mr. Soileau…..the rules have now changed and these same people are being forced to choose, declare, refrain from or however you will describe it….appears that confusion is in place and the ole’ I’ll sue you if you choose wrong method is a possibility…..doesn’t make sense…..
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Those that took on the responsibilities in order to be a service in their work places do not have to worry… they’re not performing marriages.
If the role you’ve taken on as a public servant is to perform marriage ceremonies, then it must be done in accordance with Maine law.
There are laws I don’t like too… but I abide by them, or petition the legislature and courts for resolution. I do not arbitrarily decide that I can simply break said law.
You should be sued as a public servant for refusing services in violation of state law… a law that existed before gay marriage.
It’s not a complicated issue.
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So the Commerical was right, If you don’t do this you can get sued.. OH!! What a surprise.
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No, the commercials weren’t right at all. The 2012 vote we had did nothing to change laws around whether Notary Publics can discriminate in their duties (they couldn’t before, and they cannot now).
If you don’t want to perform same-sex marriages, but want to perform marriages, get a clergy license from a church. That’s protected by the First Amendment— was protected before the 2012 vote, and is protected after the 2012 vote.
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There was no commercial that discussed civil servants.
You’re lying again.
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Why would any gay want someone who doesn’t believe in SSM to preform their marraige anyway, unless they are looking for a law suit
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You want people opposed to white rednecks to sell you beer right?
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I wouldn’t. That’s not relevant to civil law.
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that is what the whole mess has been about.Power and force acceptance not love
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No, that’s what little sourpuss’s like you simply vomit out to people in your angst and anger.
You’re a very petty little man.
Gay citizens have no more “power” today than they did on November 1.
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Again with the baseless lies.
This “whole mess” has been about allowing ALL Maine families access to the important protections of civil marriage. This has been about equal treatment under our laws.
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Who is forcing you to marry someone?
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Heck, we’re not even forcing timjy to pay attention to these articles… yet here he is, time and time again, spouting nonsense.
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It’s mind boggling and it’s frustrating I’m sure for some who would like to simply engage in constructive conversation without name calling and the sky is falling scenarios!
BTW congratulations! :) -
Thanks!
Honestly, I’ve been more bemused than anything with these latest stories. Town offices opening on Saturday for the 1st day of same-sex marriages is somehow an enormous outrage? Notary Publics having to continue abiding by Maine’s anti-discrimination laws is somehow an enormous outrage?
How do these people survive the day, with so many opportunities to be outraged? Especially during the holiday season, when we should be wishing good will toward one another :)
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Tim when it comes to a public servant should they be allowed to discriminate if you are black? How about if you are if Irish decent?
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Would you please post a link to the commercial that said “public servants were protected if they refused to marry a same sex couple” push?
Oh wait…there isn’t one because it was never said or implied.
Keep up the lies push.
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Nice try at a spin, but I’m pretty sure discriminating against an entire group of people is what “divide and conquer” is all about.
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I find it funny, those screeching about “you lied to us! we were duped!” are the same people who didn’t even vote for this in the first place. You guys have absolutely no intellectual honesty, it’s laughable.
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If they were so concerned about this issue with Notaries Public, they should have voted to uphold the law passed in 2009– it had exemptions for notaries in it.
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If Hetrosexuals ask a justice to preform a marraige for them and are told no because I’m busy that day, The Hetros go find another one. If it happens to a gay couple, the Justice would have to prove they were busy or risk getting sued, and if they were busy marrying a hetro couple that day they might get sued anyway.
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That wouldn’t stand up in court. Stop talking out of your behind.
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Yeah. His comment did kinda “stink”.
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Liar.
The protections are for “sexual orientation”, which includes heterosexuals too.
There is no difference… and you cannot demonstrate a difference.
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Heterosexuals are just as able to sue about this as homosexuals.
As I’ve said before, most gay couples will say “okay” and move on… there’s no shortage of Notaries or Clergy who will gladly marry us!
Lawsuits regarding civil rights violations are few and far between, and these things rarely come to the point of a lawsuit. In the scenario you outline, reasonable people would not sue, ever.
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No different then discriminating against race or creed. Believe it or not there are still some notaries that object to marriages between races. They better be able to prove they were “busy” that day too. It’s about discrimination not about special circumstances for a particular group of people. Sheesh!
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sexual preference is not the same as race or creed.The dems pushed this rhetoric for votes.I do not believe homosexuality should be grouped with race.
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Sexual preference is the same as race or creed in that all are protected by Maine’s anti-discrimination law, which hasn’t changed since 2005.
Your issue is not with same sex marriage, it is with anti-discrimination laws. And this particular issue is really easy to avoid, just become a minister instead of a Notary Public and you can offensively discriminate against whoever you want for marriage ceremonies.
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It is grouped with “discrimination”. Sexual preference is individual and no one has the right to treat someone like a second class citizen because they choose to love someone of the same sex. And it is the same as race or creed. You don’t get to choose which group you wish to discriminate against. There are those that would discriminate against mixed race marriages. And honestly, I am just a little insulted you think I’m just repeating “dem rhetoric”. I do have my own mind and these are my own thoughts. I really can think all by myself without any help from a political party. I vote for what I believe is Maine’s best interest and for what I believe in my heart is right.
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It’s no difference than religion little one… yet religion gets all the special goodies.
Why is that?
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Sexual “preference” is a phrase older than your thinking. It’s sexual ORIENTATION. That means you were born gay or straight and all the variations in between. It’s no different from being left-handed (once considered a sin by the way), blue-eyed or blonde-haired. It’s all in the genes and there is nothing anyone can do about it. So get with the program.
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you can guarantee if the gays can get their 15 minutes of fame by forcing a notary to marry them they will push the point.
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Which segment of the public is it to OK to discriminate against if you are a public servant?
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Are you a notary Timmy?
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The Notary wouldn’t have to prove anything to the hetero or the gay couple. Newsflash: Everyday that you draw breath (and for several more after you stop) you “risk getting sued” for something. An old ambulance chaser told me you can sue anyone for anything – winning is a different story.
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Public servant means ALL of the public… it’s not called a “people I want to serve” servant.
This is such a silly thing to be screaming about.
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No one was lied to! The churches have the right to refuse to marry anyone they want. Notaries on the other hand are public servants and as such must adhere to the discrimination laws. Would there be more yelling if a notary refused to marry someone of a different race? You betcha!
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It’s really not that complicated, is it?
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The lies were all on the R side.I got several doomsday robocalls from out of state R propagandists.It was unbelievable what they got away with.
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There goes the neighborhood
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I know! It’s like they think they’re Maine citizens, deserving of equal treatment under our laws… the horror!
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so are notary’s
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Where are notaries public not being treated equally under our laws?
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Nope…Notary Publics serve the public..ALL the public.
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Here we go let the lawyers begin.Oh right it is all about love.Right! I guess it will create jobs for lawyers.
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Tell me Timmy… should a christian notary be able to refuse a Jewish couple a civil marriage?
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He’s just mad because he lost and love and tolerance won.
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lawyers have a lot of tolerance and love
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of money.
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say that when you or your friend or family need a lawyer to protect you from the government.
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lawyers protecting people from the government? People don’t *need* lawyers – they need to be *protected* from them.
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LOL. You must be one of those people who feel the government can do whatever it wants. Let’s see, they want to search your home without a warrant, that’s ok because you have nothing to hide. They want to stop and search you on the street. That’s ok because you have nothing to hide. They want to stop and ask you where you are going? That’s ok because you have nothing to hide. Right? The goverment wants to force your children to say Muslim prayers in school? That’s ok because prayer belongs in school. Yep, lawyers don’t protect you from anything now do they?
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wrong, wrong, wrong – my issue is with lawyers – they are an arm of the government who keep the Courts in Business..and the Court system IS a Business, set up to make $ for Judges, clerks and lawyers. Lawyers are incompetent, amoral, legalized thieves, and I DO mean about 98% of them. I have nothing but contempt for lawyers, and have very good reasons for my feelings. I don’t know how you construed all that crazy stuff re how I feel about government – you are way off – I am the opposite of what you depict. I am strongly against government overreach and government’s illegal activities.
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And just who then is going to protect you from government overreach and government illegal activities? Your local dog catcher? Nope, lawyers as they have do so since the beginning of this country.
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“Love and tolerance” have nothing to do with this. It was/is about money and the transfer of government benefits.
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Make your case that civil marriage benefits should be eliminated altogether for everyone, then. That too would be equal treatment under our laws.
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Sign me up. I’ve been making that case for years!
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I’m not gathering signatures for that— you’ll have to find someone who is, or start the effort yourself. That’s your right, and your freedom!
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Nope old and no time, BUT you won’t spout off about “equality” without an argument.
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You’ve never made a case for anything really. I’ve read your posts they don’t “make a case”, they merely continue your prejudice.
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Then why do you waste your time.
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And what benefits would those be?
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Why do straight people get married?
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habit benefits, children in that order.
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Meh… I know plenty of childless couples.
The reasons for gay couples wedding is the same as straight people.
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See you had your own answer already. you didn’t need mine.
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yes and not be worried about some lawyer attacking them for his personal decision.If a notary has a problem with the changing of marriage so be it.Go find one that does accept this mess.Grow up and realize the position this crap puts people in.Some will never accept it that is their right.
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Tim a public servant serves the public…ALL the public not just those that the public servant agrees with.
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Some people still feel they have the “right” to own slaves.
Doesn’t mean they should be allowed to lock people up in a basement.
Lots of laws out there people may not agree with but they follow anyway because well it is the law. -
Then you have much larger problems than your aversion to gay people.
See, there is a law against a christian notary refusing to marry a jewish couple. Just the facts of law.
So.. .take up a petition to change that law. This “crap” puts no one in a position different than the position they were in in October.
It is a matter of civil law, and you’re bound to it as much as anyone else.
Grow up and follow the law, take up a challenge to change it, or live with the consequences of not abiding by it.
Those are your only choices.
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What part of Notary Public don’t you understand?
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Carroll Conley is being extremely disingenuous here. This is truly, utterly, completely a non-issue.
Don’t want to perform civil marriages for same-sex couples? Don’t! Notaries are not forced to perform civil marriage in Maine. It’s amusing that the only Notary Public they could find for this article who is opposed to performing same-sex marriages doesn’t even perform marriages… so he wouldn’t be affected anyway.
Want to perform civil marriages, but don’t want to do it for same-sex couples? Get a minister license! Maine is very accommodating for ministers to officiate marriage in our state, and you’d be protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution. You don’t even need to be a resident of Maine to marry people in our state, provided you are a minister.
Becoming a minister is an easy formality, and you can get the proper documentation with a nominal fee, much less $ than the cost of becoming a Notary Public even.
Don’t believe me? Here is information for those who want to perform marriages without becoming a Notary Public:
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Yes folks, it really is that easy…
Have fun! I’m getting my ordination here!!!
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Judging from the comments here it appears the only people having an issue with this is the Christian Civic League of Maine. It appears the average Mainer understands the difference between clergy and “public” servant.
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just hang on in two years Mainers will take our state back.
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Um, I think that happened last month. :)
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You do understand that the legislature cannot change the law as passed by the people don’t you Tim?
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Ummm, as I’ve said before…please don’t speak for all Mainers. You certainly aren’t speaking for me. And what exactly do you think is going to happen? “Now you’re married, now your not”?
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You aren’t speaking for me or the majority of Mainer’s. You guys are now the problem.
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How Timmy?
How?
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Enjoy defending yourselves in court notaries! This is what YOU VOTED FOR!
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So much derp, so much unnecessary outrage.
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Well, thats the way it goes! Homosexual acts are sin!
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There’s nothing sinful about two people blessed enough to find in one another a loving, supportive, lifelong relationship.
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If you engage in homosexual acts, you will find out just how bad that decision was if you dont stop it and repent!
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Well, the good news is that no one will be lonely in your hell.
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I think Bill is very lonely in his hell. He seems to have a lot of growing up to do emotionally.
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I’m actually very sad for him. His narrow views and darkness must be so restricting. He should let in the light and let people make their own choices. He cannot control other people’s actions and it’s not his job. His job is to conduct his own life as he sees fit, not direct others. It took me a long time to learn that. Peace can come from letting go.
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God condemns rape, not love. God has blessed my life, you should open your heart so you can receive blessings of love too. Dwelling on your dark thoughts has made you a bitter, petty person.
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“worship my god my way or suffer for eternity”
Thus is the threat of religion… it’s vile.
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How sure of that are you?
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If that’s what you believe don’t do it.
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Sin has no bearing on civil law Billy Boy.
You recognize it due to a choice you made.
Not everyone cares.
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No one will be so affected Billy Boy… you’re just a whiny baby.
Tell me Billy Boy… should a Christian notary be able to deny a Jewish or Buddhist couple a wedding?
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A marriage ceremony performed by an official state representative is a valid marriage even though it is not performed in the church. The state does not give the church the authority to marry. It is God who gives the state the authority to marry!
“Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves,” (Rom. 13:1-2).
A marriage performed by the state that.. “contradicts scripture”.. is not valid before God. Therefore, if the state sanctions and performs marriages between people of the same gender, then that is not a valid marriage.
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Your first sentence makes perfect sense, and sounds reasonable. Which means you probably didn’t mean to type that…!
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Your god is optional at best… it is not required.
Words from your holy book don’t change anything.
It contradicts nothing… take your “holy matrimony” and be happy with it. Marriage has been a civil institution for longer than you’ve been treading on the planet.
Tell us Billy Boy… what does your finding that it’s “not a valid marriage” do to them? Mean for them? Change for them?
Nothing. You’re a very pessimistic, judgmental, and sad old man.
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Huh? So you are saying that God gives the state the authority to marry? Really? So does that mean any laws that God hasn’t approved of don’t count? That opens up some possibilities doesn’t it? Or is it just the laws you don’t want to deal with that God gives authority on?
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I did not write Romans 13:1-2! God did!
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No… some man did.
You’re just a sucker.
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You just choose to misinterpret it to suit your obsessions over gay sex.
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Please….where is the “misinterpretation”?
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Nothing in the bible condemns the sincere love two people share when they want to commit to one another for life. The passages you cherry-pick are condemning rape and victimization, not love. And you have to ignore the spirit of the Gospel in order to condemn homosexuals— Jesus commanded us to love one another, help those less fortunate in society, and eschew worldly wealth for more spiritual matters.
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Dear Bill, My wife and I got married by a notary 37 years ago. God had nothing to do with the license; which, was, of course, issued by the state of Maine. I look to the heaven and see stars, there is no God.
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Pfft.
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This announcement should not be a surprise. For years, employees have been required to follow anti-discrimination rules imposed by their employers.
Notaries Public work for the State of Maine, not a church or religion.
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Why do I get the feeling this is something stirred up by the impotent CCL group and other religious extremist feeling ill from their lack of spotlight?
“Burke Soileau, 78, of Sebec has never performed a wedding. All he’s done
as a notary is act as a witness for people voting absentee…”As Mr. Soileau has “never performed a wedding”, then I seriously doubt he’s about to start now. Since Notary Publics are allowed to perform weddings, not required, then he is in no danger as he doesn’t perform weddings at all.
So, why now? Was he planning on adding weddings to his list of services
provided? Has he been advertising he does weddings? Or, did the CCL and friends search out someone to hold up as a scare tactic?-
A Catholic wouldn’t perform a civil ceremony.
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I would think that a religious person would not perform a civil ceremony anyway since religious people would want to give marriage to God, right?
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One would think.
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Yes, but there is a sidebar on that. Ordained clergy qualify as “agents” for the state when they perform a marriage ceremony. In fact, they sign the marriage license and mail it in to the State. This is more of a courtesy for the couple so they don’t need to find a Notary to perform the civil aspect of a marriage.
The State doesn’t really care one way or the other. As long as the couple agrees to the marriage license terms (they get married), then having a member of the clergy attest to that agreement is sufficient for the state. The statements by the couple during a religious ceremony more than cover the state requirements. There is no requirement to have a member of the clergy perform a civil ceremony, of course. It’s more of killing two birds with one stone.
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What a tempest in a teapot. All these dire predictions about public servants being required to be impartial. How hard is it for a notary to ask: And when did you want the wedding to take place? Then state, after the date/dates are set out, oh I’m sorry, I have other obligations that prevent me from doing that. Let me refer you to someone else who would be happy to help you. Or, I’m sorry I only do weddings for family and close friends, Or any of thousands of other non-discriminatory reasons. Sheesh!
But I’m sure some bigoted Notary will advertise the fact that they don’t do gay weddings just to prove Pabmainer’s fear is true. And if they do, I would expect them to lose their notary’s commission for it.
The paranoid fear about the “gay agenda” is ludicrous.
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No one “fears” homosexuals! Its just that your acts are repulsive and sinful!
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No they aren’t. Your obsessive hate is repulsive, though.
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I’m not a notary. But if I were, and a couple of the light in the loafers crowd asked the question, I would say no, and state exaclty why. I don’t do gay weddings, and let them file a complaint to the big old bad HRC.
And what are they gonna do? Take my notary stamp away…ooooooh I’m so ascared! Let me tell ya what you can do with my notary stamp.
Have a swell day fellas.
But Onthewater is right.
It just ain’t that big a deal.
Poof! Gone.-
You must be mistaken. According to my wife and kids I have NEVER been right about anything. But thanks for making me laugh.
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Welcome.
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No one would complain to the HRC… they’d complain to the state.
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You could have stopped with “I’m not a notary”, because everything else you said after that is just irrelevant prejudicial nonsense.
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This makes absolute sense. They are public servants not priests. Personally, I
would not want to be married by someone who has a problem with my life style. It’s supposed to be a happy, joyous time. There are so many Notary Publics out there to choose from. My mom was one and she would have loved to perform SSM. It’s about time! -
Lets be honest, everyone that needs money that are gay will find someone that will discriminate gay marriage and will file a lawsuit and will basically get a large amount money from church just because the government and them are one now.
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What a horrible outlook you have.
Marriage requires no religion… and what stopped folks from screaming discrimination before now?
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Aaron please do some basic research prior to posting. Churches and clergy as SPECIFICALLY exempted in the new law.
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to be honest i just spoke what i thought and what i think what might happen. I’m just vocal about my thoughts
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This is how you would act if you were in their shoes? Wow, you really are a terrible person.
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1 im not gay so i wouldn’t be in their shoes now would I. 2nd thing is I know of people that would do that. So thank you for calling me a terrible person it not like your words actually hurt in fact it has no effect of my thoughts. In most likely of terms you can judge by my post and know your the terrible person when you call people names.
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Comments for: Same-sex marriage law means notaries can’t discriminate in performing weddings
AUGUSTA — Notaries public in Maine who officiate weddings of opposite-sex couples and refuse to marry same-sex couples could be subject to a claim of discrimination under the Maine Human Rights Act, according to the Maine secretary of state’s office. The notice sent to municipal clerks… Read More
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