September 22, 2017
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Comments for: For liberal Christians, the marriage conversation is over

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  • Anonymous

    This letter shows the christian “love” so many have experienced.  I am tired of people using the bible to denounce an oppressed section of our population.   The bible is totally irrelevant to this issue because ssm is a CIVIL matter.  Get it?  Civil.  I might add that if you religious people are tired of being called bigots and homophobic then stop being bigots and homophobic.  In other words, be civil.

    • Anonymous

      Per my primary post, please don’t assume that this column reflects the views of many Protestant church members.

      • maineiac123

         Most of us know it doesn’t anymore than the posts about how SSM offends catholics.  Most people are aware that the majority of catholics actually support SSM.  Personally I think the author of this would be better placed in one of the evangelical churches considering how she seems to want to force her beliefs on everyone else.  I’m so happy that religion no longer plays any part of my life except by what is forced on me.

    • Anonymous

      Then if you believe in SSM, you do not believe in the Bible, your right htat is pretty simple. Since you believe it is a civil action.

      • Anonymous

        I believe in love.  It shouldn’t matter who is involved.  If they are truly in love they should be married.  But you’re right.  I find the bible chock full of stories that don’t make sense, much like the old Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies.
        As to marriage, it is indeed a civil affair and no church is needed to solemnize it.

        • ptkitty

          You believe in love and same-sex marriage?  

          Are these gay marriage proposals?……..http://maine.craigslist.org/m4m/

          • Anonymous

            Oh Pat………………..

          • Right, because straight people NEVER use Craigslist for casual encounters.

      • Anonymous

        Why do you persist in lying about the Bible?

        • Anonymous

          I am only accountable for my actions, if it is untrue what I said then on the Judgement Day I will be accountable, as everyone.

          • Anonymous

            Why don’t you show us in the Bible where it says YOU are supposed to JUDGE and to VOTE to HURT people, bruce?

    • Anonymous

      The homosexual rights movement is not oppressed.

      They are they are the oppressors.

      What do you call losing your job or going to jail because you say homosexuality is wrong?

      • Anonymous

        I’ve read some of your posts and it would seem that responding to you would be tantamount to talking to a brick wall so I will leave it at that.  Bye.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t blame you.  We all know he’s just repeating anti-gay lies.

      • Anonymous

        Who lost their job?  Who went to jail?  How about DOCUMENTING that wild claim?????

  • Anonymous

    Guess what? To a growing number of people(myself included)religion has no place in their lives.I don’t accept any gods and definately prefer not to live in a theocracy.Let,s agree that we live in a supposedly secular society.A society  of people that should not be told how to vote or decide personal opinions based on ancient directives.This is 2012,society must adapt to the present.Things change, it’s called progress.If you can’t accept it you don’t have to, but your time is running out.The younger generation is on the right path.Morality comes from within not because you need approval from the higher power.I’ll vote and live my life as a man who belives in my own mind which evolves from knowledge and experience. Peace and Love

    • Anonymous

      I appreciate your point of view and hope it was not the result of bad experiences with churches and church members.  If so and you ever decide to experience the benefits of an inclusive church, there are such spiritual “homes” available. If not, we understand.

      • maineiac123

         I suspect his discarding religion is for the same reason as mine.  It makes no sense.  None at all at least to me.  He’s right when he says morality comes from within.  I do what is right, not because I fear some god or fear going to some hell after I die, but rather simply because it is the right thing to do, period. That is the main reason I have voted YES on 1.  It simply is the right thing to do.

        • Anonymous

          Admirable attitudes on morals and actions.  We’re in agreement that faith, or the lack thereof, is personal not dictated.  Incidentally, not all Protestant churches subscribe to the fire-and-brimstone you’re-going-to-hell dogmas.

          Yes on 1.

          • maineiac123

             I realize they don’t on the other hand I believe the only spirit is within us and that upon our death it simply disappears. I don’t believe in heaven or hell.  I believe I go back from whence I came, to oblivion.

          • Washington County

            I used to believe that at one time

          • Anonymous

            Why don’t you concentrate on your own beliefs and stop trying to force your own beliefs on others?  That is exactly what a NO vote is meant to do.

          • maineiac123

             And that is one of the things that makes this country great.  The right to change ones mind, the right to believe or not believe.  It does not however give either group the right to exclude others in in the laws simply because those others are different. 

          • Washington County

            If there is no hell than you wouldn’t need a christ to die for your sins. If there is a hell You will have need for someone to pay your sin penalty “if the Bible is true”. The Bible says Christ paid it for us. I guess we can believe now or find out after. Just a thought. One last thing I believe it says that God will take his true church to Heaven in the Rapture, and there will be allot of churches full the next week trying to explain where all the nuts went…

          • Anonymous

            Please stop threatening us with your nasty plaster god.  If you present your god as nasty, hateful and hurtful, are you really surprised MOST CHURCHES AND SYNAGOGS REJECT your nasty plaster god?

          • Washington County

            I see him as a Loving saviour who paid my penalty. Quite an awesome creator.

        • Anonymous

          rock on.

    • Anonymous

      hope for the future. Nikky. bring a friend.

  • Anonymous

    How many times and in how many ways are anti-gays going to tell the LIE that they are somehow losing “freedom of religion” if anti-gays are not allowed to continue to subvert the United States Constitution’s guarantees of “Equal Protection Under the Law” as well as the Freedom of Religion of the many major Christian and Jewish denominations that WANT to marry loving, committed same gender couples?

    The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
    The Episcopal Church
    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
    Metropolitan Community Church
    Conservative Judaism
    Reform Judaism
    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Unitarian Universalist Church
    United Church of Christ

    Two years ago, The Presbyterian Church (USA) voted to accept LGBT ministers, and they expect to marry same gender couples soon. The Association of Unity Churches International is discussing same gender marriage.  In some parts of the U.S., Methodist pastors have been marrying same-sex couples or conducting blessing ceremonies for same-sex unions for years with little fanfare and no backlash from the denomination. Calls to overturn their denomination’s anti-gay rule have become increasingly vocal in recent years, ratcheting up the pressure for the Methodist church to join other mainline Protestant denominations that have become more accepting of openly gay leaders.
     
    These denominations all agree with modern Biblical scholars, who have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently to provide “Biblical cover” for rising levels of homophobia.

    • Anonymous

      Beware of false Prophets, including those you have listed

      • Anonymous

        Shame on you for attacking the Freedom Of Religion of those nice American churches and synagogs.

        • Anonymous

          Not I, they read from the same Word I do, except of Judism.

          • Anonymous

            You just attacked them by calling them “false Prophets.”  And apparently you have a fake Bible with extra stuff written into it.  Modern Biblical scholars have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently in order to provide “Biblical cover” for then-rising levels of homophobia.  For example, the word “homosexual” didn’t even exist until 1850.  Many major Christian and Jewish denominations condemn misusing the hate-based mistranslations to attack their fellow Americans and are marrying same gender American couples now.  About 400-years ago, a group of religious authorities (sanctioned by King James I of England), secretly manipulated the English version of the Bible to reflect their own heterosexual attitude; they opposed the king kissing other men in public. But in revised versions, religious authorities re-defined the Greek word “arsenokoites” of 1Corinthians 6:9!  The most accurate translation, abusers of themselves with mankind [KJV], was pretty vague.  Nevertheless, they replaced this vague 5-worded text with the not so vague and purposely targeted 1-word text, “homosexual(s).” Either way you cut it, this text does not describe homosexuals. This campaign gave those who were looking for a reason to justify their own homophobia a license to openly express their bigotry.

          • Anonymous

            Sounding a little overly fanatical I would say, amost soundind like trying to justify something. No extra stuff in my Bible, I have been in some of those Churches and their’s read the same thing. Even when marriage is talked about in the New Testament.

          • Anonymous

            There you are, lying about the Bible again, bruce.  Face the fact, Jesus NEVER said you should try to HURT LGBT Americans.  Shame on you for making your god look this ugly, hateful and hurtful.  YOU are the one trying to justify with the Bible so you can HURT your fellow Americans.  Shame on you, bruce.

          • Anonymous

            How do you mistranslate the following?

            “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities round about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (JUDE 1:7)

            And how does anyone mistranslate Romans 1:24-26?

            The entire homosexual rights movement is based on lies and deception, and one of the biggest lies is that the Bible has been mistranslated on the issue of homosexuality. 

            The Bible is clear as the light of day on this subject, and so are the ancient rabbis who say that God sent the Flood after men wrote marriage contracts with other men and with animals.

            Romans 1:24-27

            ” Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.  

            They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 

            Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.

            Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

    • Washington County

      You keep talking about people not losing religious freedom. Right this moment if a religious photographer can refuse to take photo’s of a Gay wedding and can’t be prosecuted. The minuite the law changes that same photographer can be prosecuted for discrimination. His religious freedom to not do something against his/her faith is taken away from them.

      • Anonymous

        If a business discriminates against a same gender couple having an engagement party, that is ALREADY ILLEGAL RIGHT NOW.  A photography business is NOT a “religion.”  If religious nuts don’t want to serve the public equally, they should not go into business.

        Get real, this whole line of anti-gay BUNK was just DEBUNKED right here in the pages of the BDN a few days ago, when they DEBUNKED the LIES in the anti-gays’ Hate Videos on TV.  

    • Anonymous

      You forgot to add Satanism, the Federation of North American Native Religions, the Communist Party, and Louie, the  town drunk. 

  • Anonymous

    If we are to accept the idea that “redefining marriage” will somehow infringe upon the religious liberties of others as the author suggests, the very existence of other denominations, of people whose views differ from hers in any way, does the same thing. Anyone who thinks differently than she does is a threat. She says she doesn’t feel that way, then make precisely that argument.  It comes down to this: you personally are under no obligation to regard a same-sex marriage as legitimate. You needn’t have gay friends or associate knowingly with them in any way. However, society at large is bound to treat them equally, as human beings no different than any others with respect to rights and responsibilities, and to honor their personal decisions as it honors yours. Those of us in denominations that welcome and cherish all who come to us have no less stake in religious liberty than you do, and if we choose to sanctify same gender marriage, we’ll do it whether it’s civilly legal or not. As you’d say, we answer to a higher authority than the state of Maine. How dare you think your beliefs trump mine?

  • Anonymous

    As a life long member of one of the four churches cited, I find this column not only offensive and insulting, but incredible, even approaching non-factual.  With these extreme views, Ms. Wagner and her husband must no longer belong to the mainstream Espiscopal Church but with one of the breakaways, Anglican, or whatever.  The number of defections from the cited churches over SSM is a small proportion of the membership.  That may have been the stated reason but for many it was more over money (cheap narcissism if you will).  A larger reason over the years is non-retention of younger people.

    If Ms. Wagner feels she is being dictated to, she should experience what Catholics go through as illustrated by the recent missive by the former Bishop of Maine.  If she has experienced intimidation, I apologize.  This is not typical of the majority of the proponents of equality in these churches.  However, I do take offense at her implications that I and others are part of that.  

    As expressed elsewhere, proponents of SSM are not attacking “traditional marriage”.  All too many of those in traditional marriages provide the attacks in their abuse of the union.  If she and others are so conservative, they can refuse to perform SSM ceremonies.  Bear in mind that the only legal definition of marriage is the state issued marriage license.

    I hope that her rant should will not casue those outside these churches to assume that it reflects the views of a majority of us.  We apologize for their intransigence.

    • Anonymous

      Then apparently you do not believe what the Bible states, it is attacking traditional marriage.

      • Anonymous

        No matter how many times anti-gays tell that LIE that marriage equality will somehow “attack” mixed-sex marriages, that’s just another big fat anti-gay LIE.

  • Anonymous

    There are several Christian denominations that are now in a state of apostasy.   That’s pretty serious.

    • Anonymous

      Even The Catholic Church and many conservative Protestant churches are experiencing defections (one definition of apostasy) largely for reasons of “my way or the highway” policies and practices even if these are on shaky or debatable theological grounds. Not all churches, and their members, march to to the tune of Popes, Bishops, etc.

      • Anonymous

        It is not my way or the highway, it is what they believe. You can see the list above how many Churches have fallen away.

        • Anonymous

          I’m sure none of these churches will start being homophobic because you whined here.

          • Anonymous

            It is a free country they are entitled to their belief. Though you do not seem to think anyone that thinks opposite of your opinion should.

          • Anonymous

            Anti-gays are NOT just expressing their opinion, they are trying to FORCE their nasty opinion onto ALL Mainers by voting NO.  Stop trying to blame pro-equality people for what we can all see the anti-gays are doing.

          • Anonymous

            And you are not doing the same thing? I am not blaming anyone, It is very clear that some pro-marriage forces are trying to ridiculte, berate othes into saying vote yes, by calling them bigots and homophobic and even other things. I know some that have good friends that are homosexuals, but they disagree with each other without the hatred that is clear in some post.

          • Anonymous

            If y0u call anyone by the epithet “homosexual,” they are not your friends.  If they knew what you’ve posted here, they would throw you out of their homes and their lives.  Look, bruce, every anti-gay Hate Cult tells anti-gays they should say “My homosexual friends think it’s AOK that I’m going to vote to HURT them,” but we all know that’s just a LIE.  Again, what about “Thou Shalt Not Lie”?????

          • Anonymous

            I don’t believe for a second that you have gay friends. I’ve seen you lie in your comments multiple times before. Don’t create these pretend friends to try and support your point. If you have an argument based on the merits, you wouldn’t need to lie. 

          • Anonymous

            bruce..next time you get your rights taken and withheld from you i expect you to never get angry or to actually call the bigots on what they are doing…give up a few rights (and cold hard cash based on unequal tax laws) then sit back and ask pretty please and see where that gets you…sit there for say 25 years..then show me you dont feel compelled to call it as it is!

    • Anonymous

       Anyone who addresses prayers to Mary or to the saints rather than to God, the Father, is an apostate according to the black-and-white instructions laid down in the Bible.

      • Anonymous

        True, and they can be forgiven also, as all. And before someone jumps down my throat. I am not perfect, and have not claimed to be. Though I can be. ( I say that to those that have that belief’s).

        • Anonymous

          The ones that need to seek forgiveness are the ones that have committed criminal acts by making these secret, illegal donations to anti-gay Hate Votes.

          • Anonymous

            sorry I have not donated to any of them, or candidates.

          • Anonymous

            The anti-gay Hate Cult NOM denied making donations also.  The Maine Ethics Commission proved they DID make those donations NOM denied.

        • Anonymous

          And yet your attitude, name calling, condescension and general attitude on here seems to suggest you believe otherwise. But nice to fall back on the crutch of words instead of proving yourself with action, isn’t it?

          • Anonymous

            Condescension, I have said before that I am not perfect, or better than anyone else. Because you do not believe something does not make something a lie. Name calling, the most that I have called someone is a liberal.

    • Anonymous

      It’s always sad to see anti-gays attack the Freedom Of Religion of the many major Christian and Jewish denominations that reject homophobia and married same gender couples in 6 US States and the District of Columbia earlier TODAY.

  • Suresh kumar

    Thanks for your grateful informations, this blogs will be really help for students news.

  • Anonymous

    Who is oppressing whom??

     Many Christian and non christian denomination do NOT believe SSM is  a sin . ONLY SOME do.

     Claiming  religion or ‘Christianity’ as a reason  to oppose it is an attempt to deceive and exploit ALL CHRISTIAN and Non christian  faiths and all religions and pretend all “christians’  faiths are alike  They are not . 
    I attended a SSM  over a decade ago  It was held in a “christian church by a minister and blessed by God and the faithful  who were present. AND the place was packed to the rafters.
     
     Feel free to believe what you believe and vote as you like. BUT  to peddling a view point in the name of “Christianity” or as having a globally Christian prohibition  is simple wrong and dishonest.

    AND SOME faiths have attempted to do just that and use their pulpit to push  THEIR OWN  beliefs  upon others. There is NO universal “Christian” prohibition against SSM There are as many ( there are actually more BUT close enough)  religious denomination who  support it as oppose it.  So maybe it is the conservative minority Protesteants  “movement”( speaking with a LOUD voice and carrying a Big stick)  ) who are trying impose their will and belief system on others ?

    • Anonymous

      I guess we will find out, when we die won’t we. Two words we have to be concerned about “Be Prepared”

      • Anonymous

        Don’t bother threatening us with your nasty plaster god again, bruce.  When your nasty plaster god makes contact with the United States Constitution, your nasty plaster god disintegrates into DUST.  We aren’t afraid of your “holy dust.”  Neither are these major Christian, Jewish and other denominations that are marrying same gender couples now are being denied their right to practice their religion freely in 44 US States.  These denominations have married same gender couples in 7 US States and the District of Columbia:

        The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
        The Episcopal Church
        Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
        Metropolitan Community Church
        Conservative Judaism
        Reform Judaism
        Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
        Unitarian Universalist Church
        United Church of Christ

        Last year, The Presbyterian Church (USA) voted to accept LGBT ministers, and they expect to marry same gender couples next year. The Association of Unity Churches International is discussing same gender marriage.  In some parts of the U.S., Methodist pastors have been marrying same-sex couples or conducting blessing ceremonies for same-sex unions for years with little fanfare and no backlash from the denomination. Calls to overturn the rule have become increasingly vocal in recent weeks, ratcheting up the pressure for the Methodist church to join other mainline Protestant denominations that have become more accepting of openly gay leaders.
         
        These denominations all agree with modern Biblical scholars, who have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently to provide “Biblical cover” for rising levels of homophobia.

        • Anonymous

          I did not threaten anyone. Those Denominations, “Beware of False Prophets. Interesting they all still read out of the same Bible, if they disagree with it and think it is mistranslated. Have a good evening, I hold no ill will.

          • Anonymous

            “I did not threaten anyone.”

            Yes, you did, when you wrote this:

            “I guess we will find out, when we die won’t we.”

            “Those Denominations, “Beware of False Prophets.  I hold no ill will.”

            You showed ill will toward the many major Christian and Jewish Denominations I listed.  

          • Anonymous

            That is not ill will, saying that when we will die we will find out the Truth.
            I stated what the Bible says, “Beware of False Prophets” same as their Bible says.
            I guess, unless you find a different intepretation.
            Because a Denomination does not beleive in SSM, does not mean they hate people,
            because those souls are just as important as anyones.
            Because He died for All. Regardless of who or what Religion you belong or do not belong too.
            I think enough has been said, so my words will not get twisted around anymore.

          • Anonymous

            Well, OF COURSE you are expressing ill will when you say your god is going to hurt me!  Of course you express ill will when you call all the welcoming and affirming churches “False Prophets.”  Whatever happened to “Thou Shalt Not Lie”?  Can’t you even tell the truth about your hoping that everyone who doesn’t share YOUR beliefs will get HURT by your ugly, hateful and hurtful god?

          • Anonymous

            Will you be disappointed if you find out you’ve been reading it wrong?

          • Anonymous

            Yeah and I’m sure He’s up there clapping His hands for all the lies and hatred you spew. Come on.

        • Anonymous

          i love carrot cake. and i appreciate your fairness. and so does my adopted son( disgarded from a hetero relationship) and loving partner.

  • Anonymous

    For one thing there’s no such thing as a traditional  marriage. If you don’t believe me look up   ” Whats  is a traditional  marriage ”   You will see that it’s been refined  many times over .

    Look up the history of  marriage it will be an eye opener for one thing at one time marriage was not done for love  . If you lived together either a man and a man or a man and a women or a women and a women  for a year you were  married .

    The church did not play a roll in  marriage till about 200 to 225 years ago it was the church that said it  should be a religious event

  • Anonymous

    Interesting that this commentary does not appear in the print edition of the BDN.

    • Anonymous

      why?, lots of news papers are pushing for online. Seems pretty normal. 

  • Anonymous

    I’m getting sick of this self-victimization garbage. 

    You’re not a victim because someone out there disagrees with you. That’s life. The fact that gay people exist in your neighbor doesn’t make you suddenly less free and it doesn’t make you oppressed. 

    Using the law against people you disagree with however? Using the law to put them back in the closet because you don’t like them? That’s oppression. 

  • Anonymous

    The way I was raised, your religious beliefs are a personal matter only to be discussed with very close friends and family.  By the same token I was raised “live & let live”, do not expect or demand others live according to your moral code.  When you take a very public stance on something that people feel so strongly about you can expect others to comment on it, both negatively and positively.  It’s not bigotry or intolerance, but rather reaction.  

    As for marriage, it is both a civil and a religious institution.  Those who place more importance in the religious institution are well within their rights to be a member of a church which will not recognize or officiate over a same gender marriage.  However, by the same token they do not have the right to demand that other people who are not members of their church live by their religious values.  The current debate is regarding the civil institution and as such is not and should not be subjugated to religious mores.

    • Anonymous

      someone with a clear view of the issue.
      thanks. to bad the closed minded wont hear you.

  • Anonymous

    What are people so scared of when gay people get married  ? It’s not like they are going to take over the world an kill people now isn’t ?  Look at when they raised the speed on 95  north of old town  first ting people said there would be a lot of deaths an maimed people  .  Now when fire works came along people said that houses would be burnt down  kids would get there fingers blown off  an the er would be loaded with people . When gambling came a long people said that every one would lose there money an there homes an would half to go on the state an the same was said about scratch tickets to. 

    • Anonymous

      There is NO rational reason for anti-gays to want to HURT loving, committed same gender Mainer couples this way.  Psychologists identified homophobia as a mental illness and published their results in the Journal of the National Institutes of Health in 1953.  Psychologists report that the most commonly observed symptom of the mental disorder homophobia is an inability of those so afflicted to accept documentation that contradicts their deep-seated phobia and hatred of LGBT Americans.  This is why anti-gays routinely refuse to accept the documentation that proves the anti-gay lies they have been repeating are false.

      • Anonymous

        Very well said an one more thing people are afraid of change its the fear of the unone they do not know what to expect

  • Scott Harriman

    What is fair about you using the law to force your religious views on the rest of the population?

    That doesn’t sound like religious freedom to me.

  • Anonymous

    I  do not oppose some type of civil accommodation being made for gays. If they want to fill out some paperwork, stand before some justice of the peace or something, and call themselves married, I don’t care too much. I don’t recognize as valid marriages conducted outside a Catholic Church anyway. I’m just frightened that, a few years down the line, there are going to be test cases in the courts, whereby gays are going to sue churches refusing to marry them for discrimination. Because that is obviously going to happen at some point.

    • Anonymous

      civil ACCOMMODATION? hmmm first you give up some of your rights in exchange for accommodations..then we will talk. ignorant. i have paid more in taxes from the ficked up IRS laws based on ‘civil marriage or domestic partnership”..money that 1) id be fine paying if everyone else was equally accommodating or 2) could use on an equL PLyING FIELD to otherwise PAY for my son’s college (he is a “discard” of some blessed hetero relationship BTW)…
      so when you aare ready to give up your rights for lesser ACCOMMODATIONS>.then we can talk…

      • Anonymous

        I think you need to read more carefully. I call it an accommodation because I simply do not think marriages conducted outside the Catholic Church–or perhaps some conservative Lutheran ones–are valid. If you or the government wants to call these civil ceremonies “marriages”, then go ahead. However, I must say that it is an absolute tragedy that these homosexual couples are going to be able to adopt children. 

        • Anonymous

          Yes, how terrible that same sex couples will provide unwanted children a loving, stable home…

          • Anonymous

            I can cite certain statistics or even make empirical observations which would seem to identify the precise reasons why your response to my original suggestion is absurd. But what is the point? You’ll just call me a “homophobe”.

          • Anonymous

            If you are referring to the Regnerus study, as that is so far the only study to claim that same sex parents are worse at raising children, I can tell you why you are wrong.  I can also provide numerous studies that show there is no difference between children of same sex couples and children of opposite sex couples.

            Reasons why the Regnerus study is flawed:
            1.  The study only looked at two same sex couples jointly raising a child.  The rest of the “same sex couples” were actually children raised by opposite sex parents who later had a same sex relationship.  You can’t claim same sex couples are worse at raising children without actually looking at same sex couples raising children.  The study even admits that heterosexual parents are actually being compared to broken households.  To claim the study looks at stable same sex couples raising children and compares an outright lie.

            2. The study had a severely flawed definition of “gay father” and “lesbian mother”.  If the parent had even one same sex “relationship” after the child was born, then they were considered a “gay father” or “lesbian mother”.  This completely ignores if the parent is a. bisexual, b. simply confused about their sexuality, or c. the sexual orientation the parent identifies as.  In social science, orientation =/= behavior, but Mr. Regnerus didn’t get that memo.

            Groups that support same sex adoption:
            1.  American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
            2.  American Academy of Family Physicians
            3.  American Academy of Pediatrics
            4.  American Bar Association
            5.  American Psychiatric Association
            6.  American Psychoanalytic Association
            7.  American Psychological Association
            8.  American Medical Association
            9.  Child Welfare League of America
            10. National Association of Social Workers
            11. North American Council on Adoptable Children
            Source: http://community.pflag.org/Document.Doc?id=349

            Studies that have found no difference between same sex parents and opposite sex parents:
            This link contains references to multiple studies that say there is no difference:
            http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx

            Another study:
            http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2004.00823.x/abstract;jsessionid=AA51D0BD79BBE8E86112C44B5A741F71.d01t04?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
            “Regardless of family type, adolescents whose parents described closer relationships with them reported better school adjustment.”

            So, no, I do not think you are necessarily a homophobe, just ignorant of the facts.  If, however, you choose to ignore the research that says you are wrong, in order to justify some sort of prejudice, then yes, the term homophobe would be appropriate.

          • Anonymous

            Look, I really don’t care about what these organizations support or don’t support. All I am saying is that there is a clear and undeniable link between homosexuality and pedophilia. I don’t think it is a coincidence, for example, that roughly 80 percent of child sex-abuse cases in the Catholic Church have been homosexual in nature.

          • Anonymous

            Where in hell do you get your information?  It certainly is not a reputable source because too many other sources deny that claim.  I cannot provide those sources myself  but they have been cited in these response columns many times.  That you didn’t bother to read them speaks volumns about yourself.

          • Anonymous

            What do you mean? The statistic I cited regard the Church sex-abuse cases is widely known. Of course many people like to argue that pedophilia and homosexuality are not the same, and must not be connected with one another. All I can say is that Sandusky obviously was not a “straight” man.

          • Anonymous

            Once again, according to the APA, you are wrong.
            “Despite a common myth, homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are.”
            http://www.apa.org/pubs/info/brochures/sex-abuse.aspx#

          • Anonymous

            Thank you.

          • Anonymous

            Don’t be stupid. The reason why they say that is because the APA does not consider adult men who rape young boys as homosexuals. The SPLC, who summarizes their research into this matter very succinctly, cites the study as saying, ” The fixated child molester — the stereotypical pedophile — cannot be considered homosexual or heterosexual because “he often finds adults of either sex repulsive” and often molests children of both sexes”. But of course that is absurd. Obviously a man who sodomizes another man or boy is gay.

          • Anonymous

             You are right  my daughter is a psychologist an says the same thing that kids do just as well raised by ss couple as straight couples an there are a number of studies that prove that. Don’t bother with that person they have there mind made up an do matter how many facts you give that person they will never believe you.

          • Anonymous

            According to the APA, you are wrong.
            “Despite a common myth, homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are.”
            Source: http://www.apa.org/pubs/info/brochures/sex-abuse.aspx#

          • Anonymous

            “All I am saying is that there is a clear and undeniable link between homosexuality and pedophilia.”

            That’s a LIE.  The FBI says LGBT Americans commit that CRIME so seldom it’s statistically NIL.

            “I really don’t care about what these organizations support or don’t support.”

            Yes, we know anti-gays aren’t interested in the FACTS, just in promoting anti-gay LIES.

            “80 percent of child sex-abuse cases in the Catholic Church”

            Altar BOYS, no altar girls…

        • Anonymous

          So Baptists aren’t married?

          • Anonymous

            It’s always sad to see anti-gays attack the Freedom Of Religion of all normal, non-homophobic Americans.

        • Anonymous

           Children would not need adoption if they were not harmed by STRAIGHT   married people  .

        • Anonymous

           Look up the history of marriage you will see that 4,000 years a go marriage was NOT done for love  .  Marriage by the church is young it began about 200 to 225 years a go an it was the church that said marriage should be a reglish cermony not the government  Look up the history of marriage an yes gays were even married 4,000 years ago

        • Anonymous

          What makes it a “tragedy” that orphans would get good homes and loving parents?

          “[S]tudies on children dating back 25 years conclude that children raised by gay and lesbian non-adoptive parents fare as well as those reared by heterosexual parents (Breways, Ponjaert, Van Hall, & Golombok, 1997; Chan, Raboy & Patterson, 1998; Golombok, Perry, Burston, Murray, Mooney-Sommer, Stevens, & Golding, 2003; Wainwright, Russell & Patterson, 2004).”

          A 2008 report from The Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Agency, America’s most respected experts on adoption.

          http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/policy/2008_09_expand_resources.php

          http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/2/339

          “Children deserve to know that their relationships with both of their parents are stable and legally recognized. This applies to all children, whether their parents are of the same or opposite sex. The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual.1–9 When 2 adults participate in parenting a child, they and the child deserve the serenity that comes with legal recognition.”

          “The bulk of evidence to date indicates that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are no more likely to become homosexual than children raised by heterosexuals. As one researcher put it, “If heterosexual parenting is insufficient to ensure that children will also be heterosexual, then there is no reason to conclude that children of homosexuals also will be gay”. 11
          Studies asking the children of gay fathers to express their sexual orientation showed the majority of children to be heterosexual, with the proportion of gay offspring similar to that of a random sample of the population. An assessment of more than 300 children born to gay or lesbian parents in 12 different samples shows no evidence of “significant disturbances of any kind in the development of sexual identity among these individuals”.”

          http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_gay/f_gayb.cfm

    • Anonymous

       You can sue ANY ONE ANY time you want now will you win or thats a diffrent story

    • Anonymous

      Just WHY on EARTH would a tasteful same gender American couple want to get married in some skanky anti-gay Hate Cult like the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas–when so many BEAUTIFUL churches WANT to marry us NOW?  These denominations have married same gender couples in 7 US States and the District of Columbia:

      The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
      The Episcopal Church
      Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
      Metropolitan Community Church
      Conservative Judaism
      Reform Judaism
      Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
      Unitarian Universalist Church
      United Church of Christ

  • JohnR

     “The sorry spectacle of the Treworgy Family Orchards”, what sorry spectacle? If bigots insist on revealing themselves and placing signs in their businesses, well sorry about that but I have a right to take my business elsewhere. As for Chick A fil or whatever it is I heard they had a boost after their bigotry was exposed. It seems Republicans respond well to bigotry, and hatred.

    • Anonymous

      The anti-gay owner of the chicken chain was negotiating with Chicago authorities as well as LGBT community groups, promising to stop financing anti-gay vote throwing, but that was just another of his lies.  However, the FACT that the anti-gay owner even PRETENDED to negotiate is PROOF that his business is collapsing.

  • Anonymous

    What does Bob Carlson have to say about this?

    He was the epitome of liberal Christianity, and its leading spokesman in the state. 

  • Anonymous

    You don’t believe me?

    Ask Bob Carslon.

    • Anonymous

       an he’s a lier you are weak minded if you believe him

  • Anonymous

    “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities round about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (JUDE 1:7)

    The entire homosexual rights movement is based on lies and deception, and one of the biggest lies is that the Bible has been mistranslated on the issue of homosexuality. 

    The Bible is clear as the light of day on this subject, and so are the ancient rabbis who say that God sent the Flood after men wrote marriage contracts with other men and with animals.
    Romans 1:24-27

    ” Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.  

    They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 

    Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.

    Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

    • Anonymous

      No one is fooled by your faked Bible, Son.  Modern Biblical scholars have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently in order to provide “Biblical cover” for then-rising levels of homophobia.  For example, the word “homosexual” didn’t even exist until 1850.  Many major Christian and Jewish denominations condemn misusing the hate-based mistranslations to attack their fellow Americans and are marrying same gender American couples now.  About 400-years ago, a group of religious authorities (sanctioned by King James I of England), secretly manipulated the English version of the Bible to reflect their own heterosexual attitude; they opposed the king kissing other men in public. But in revised versions, religious authorities re-defined the Greek word “arsenokoites” of 1Corinthians 6:9!  The most accurate translation, abusers of themselves with mankind [KJV], was pretty vague.  Nevertheless, they replaced this vague 5-worded text with the not so vague and purposely targeted 1-word text, “homosexual(s).” Either way you cut it, this text does not describe homosexuals. This campaign gave those who were looking for a reason to justify their own homophobia a license to openly express their bigotry.
       

      • Anonymous

        But it is VERY FUNNY that you go looking for “gay sex” in your fake Bible, Son.  VERY FUNNY!

  • Anonymous

    Bob Carlson also lied about what the Bible says about homosexuality.

  • “REAL CHRISTIANS” follow Christ!
    “REAL CHRISTIANS”  obey God!
    “REAL CHRISTIANS” read and apply the Bible’s teachings in their life!

    The Bible states many times that homosexual acts are sin! Christ defined marriage when discussing divorce!  Matthew 19:4-6…   4“Haven’t you read the Scriptures?” Jesus replied. “They record that from the beginning ‘God made them male and female.’*” + 5And he said, “‘This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.’* + 6Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together.”

    Jesus made God’s ideal very plain: At creation he approved one kind of marriage bond, man to woman. These become one flesh—one before God.

    • Anonymous

      Real christians do not bear false witness against their neighbors either.  So, I guess that leaves you out.

      • Please explain.

        • Anonymous

          All you have to do is look at your old disqus comments on the PPH and KJ before they required you to use your real name and those comments are self explanatory.  For those posters who may not have seen Bill Peters comments:  “Sodomy Marriage, perverts” are two of his favorites.  That qualifies as false witness to me.  Why are you not posting anymore on the PPH and KJ sites anymore?  Afraid your gay friends (you do say you have some) might see you for what you are?  Definately one person who should not be quoting the bible.

          • Anonymous

            Anti-gays always claim they “have gay friends.”

            So “Bill Peters” really DOES say all the same things as Fred Phelps, huh?  Thanks for telling readers that, charlescat.

        • Anonymous

           Do you know that ladies like sodomy  ?? if you don’t believe me do a search an you will see they like it

    • Anonymous

      So people who remain single are thwarting God’s will?

      • no!

        • Anonymous

          It seems other posters have caught you in your anti-gay lies, Fred Phelps.

    • Anonymous

       god made animals an they are gay so god made gay people

    • Anonymous

      Mr. Peters is telling the same LIES that Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas tells.  Are you really Fred Phelps?  Do you try to trash funerals of soldiers with those “G*d Hates F*gs” signs?

      The major Christian, Jewish and other denominations that are marrying same gender couples now are being denied their right to practice their religion freely in 44 US States.  These denominations have married same gender couples in 7 US States and the District of Columbia:

      The Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists
      The Episcopal Church
      Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
      Metropolitan Community Church
      Conservative Judaism
      Reform Judaism
      Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
      Unitarian Universalist Church
      United Church of Christ

      Last year, The Presbyterian Church (USA) voted to accept LGBT ministers, and they expect to marry same gender couples next year. The Association of Unity Churches International is discussing same gender marriage.  In some parts of the U.S., Methodist pastors have been marrying same-sex couples or conducting blessing ceremonies for same-sex unions for years with little fanfare and no backlash from the denomination. Calls to overturn the rule have become increasingly vocal in recent weeks, ratcheting up the pressure for the Methodist church to join other mainline Protestant denominations that have become more accepting of openly gay leaders.
       
      These denominations all agree with modern Biblical scholars, who have proven the Bible was intentionally mistranslated relatively recently to provide “Biblical cover” for rising levels of homophobia.

  • Anonymous

    Liberal and conservative are political terms you are either faithful to the word of God or unfaithful.  We can’t make God into our image and likeness, God has made us into His  image and likeness.  God is love and He loves us more than we love ourselves.  But, we have chosen to put our own “feelings” into what we “feel” is love.  Love is not using someone, SSM is all about using another person.  God made male and female to be partners with each other. One male and one female in a household, raising children is what is best for society.

    We need to stop this insanity and do what is best for society.

    • Anonymous

      SSM is “using” another person, but love is not?

      • Anonymous

        Anti-gays always seek to demean, demonize and dehumanize LGBT Americans.

    • Anonymous

      Now some fool anti-gay is claiming that the right-wing nuts that sabotaged America’s economy and took us to war in Iraq are HOLY?  Nonsense.

  • Anonymous

     Gays have been around for 4,000 years an even were married 4,000  years ago to

  • Anonymous

    Who do anti-gays think they are kidding?

    “do what is best for society” an anti-gay writes below.  Anti-gays are trying to SUBVERT the United States Constitution’s guarantee of “Equal Protection Under the Law” and Freedom Of Religion.  Trashing the Constitution is NOT what’s best for America!

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