Comments for: Energy company’s plan to move tar sands oil through Maine meets opposition in Portland rally

Posted June 19, 2012, at 2:37 p.m.
Last modified June 19, 2012, at 6:54 p.m.

PORTLAND | Environmental advocates rallied Tuesday morning against what they called an inevitable attempt to reverse the oil pipeline connecting Portland to Montreal to accommodate the transport of acidic, corrosive tar sands oil from Canada. In a press conference led by the Natural Resources Council of Maine and Natural …

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  • Anonymous

    The best way to handle criticism from NRCM and other such radical environmental organizations: ignore them (they hate that!)

    According to the law, if there is a spill, the pipeline owner must clean it up.

    • Anonymous

      Ignore the environment. And it WILL go away!

    • Anonymous

      Yes, but some of these spills can never be cleaned up, what if it damaged drinking water? These companies do not have to worry about paying everyone a life time for clean water. 

    • “According to the law, if there is a spill, the pipeline owner must clean it up.”

      if we had a spill into the Crooked River I suspect that the losses would drive the subsidiary into bankruptcy, leaving you and i to pay for the cleanup . In any case, what does Portland drink in the meantime? 

      • Ben Hutchins

         Evian, like they do anyway.

      •  Portland is already a dump:)

      • Anonymous

        if you had an oil spill in the crooked river, you would clean it up, just like any other oil spill

        and if the spill was bad eough to reach Sebago, the intake pipes for the water plant are not at the surface, they are a ways down….oil floats

        and your water is filtered already and treated with ozone…in an emergeny, they could also run it through portable sand filters to further the treatment process 

      •  And we have only to look to BP in the gulf to see how clean up works to protect local businesses or even fairly reimburse local businesses and local areas..

      • We have Two Papermill Dumps now owned by Maine that say that you are wrong!

        One in Old Town and One in Millinocket!

    •  Fine..set everything aside that NRCM is focusing on and raising and look at the pipeline reversal only in terms of jobs, economic impact and impact on Maine;s supply of crude and diesel

      Does it really measure up as provding any benefit to Maine?.

  • Patten_Pete

    NRCM = New Religion Conning Mainers

    • Anonymous

      Funny, God Made man to take care of his Garden

  • We cant have this going on in Maine? It might create a job or something like that!

    • Do you really think that having a pipeline cross the primary tributary to Portland’s drinking water supply – not once, but six times – is worthwhile risk?

      • Yes

        • Thats what they said in Chernobyl!

      • Anonymous

        YES!!

        • Thats what they said in Fukushima!

      • Anonymous

         Hell yes…

        • Thats what they said in Louisiana

      • Anonymous

        Do you have idea of the perceived danger’s there are in the world? 

         Do a google search for nuclear reactors. Several teaching reactors reside in neighborhoods without a complaint.  Yes, they’re just “teaching” reactors, but considering the out rage over 24 oz. sodas.,,,,,

      •  YES.

        • Thats what the said in Valdez!

      • Anonymous

        The pipeline has been in place since 1950! I do not recall a spill event from this infrastructure going back to 1970.

        •  (1) that is transporting diesel not thick muddy tar sands.
          .
          (2) do we know or have any opportunity to inquire what condition this old piepline is in, how well maintained it has been and how it would perfom pumping tar sands instead of crude.?

          (3) does it concern you to know that Maine has no say in this at all..it opted to defer entirely to Federal Regulations and oversight on all hazardous materials pipelines.?

          • This is nothing more than a P.R. diversion! 

               They really plan to put it through the east west corridor but if they get Southern Maine up in arms against a pipeline  the public will be more than delighted when they say OH! We can put it through Dover Foxcroft instead!

            They will sell the rest of us out in a heartbeat!

            The Enemy, of my Enemy, is my friend!

            Divide and Conquer!

          •  my concern as well dlbrt

        • Keep scratch’n your head! 

          Pump”Sand” through an “Oil” line and see what happens!

      • Anonymous

        YES! and while they are at it, stick Quimby’s National Park in Portland!!

        • Anonymous

          Quimbys park in Portland! Best Idea yet this year!!

        • Anonymous

          I don’t know who you are but I’d vote for you !

      • Anonymous

        There is an element in the environmental left that wants to undermine the U.S. and topple it from it’s # 1 position of greatness. One way to do this is to try and strangle our energy supply. These enemies of America clamp down on nuclear, discredit new versions of nuclear such as thorium reactors, rip out our hydro, fight importation of inexpensive hydro from Canada, attempt to cease oil drilling everywhere, fight pipelines, turn natural gas drilling into a dirty word and oppose clean coal technologies.
        The reality is the U.S. has more recoverable coal than any nation on earth. The country though that produces the most coal is China, producing perhaps three times as much as the U.S. Yet we seldom hear the environmental left attack China. No, for them the root of all evil is the good old USA. Obama himself trumpeted to his lefty friends that he planned to bankrupt coal plants.
        Then, the energy sources that these enemies of America prescribe for us are the totally weak and useless grid-scale wind and solar.  They also help drain the treasury and often transfer U.S. taxpayer funds to places like China who manufacture much of this mature but rotten technology.
        While many in the environmental left are simply true believers and products of the pervasive anti-American indoctrinations within our public school systems and universities, there are also more hard core elements who coopt the dogma drunk with the express purpose of weakening this country.

        What better way than to choke off our energy supply?

        They or their unwitting foot soldiers are alive and well on these boards.

        This has been reposted as after the first time it was posted it was removed for review.

        • Anonymous

          Boy!  It’s getting deep in here.  just exactly do you figure this pipeline is going to benefit the U.S. or even Maine?  This goop they call sand tar will be put on boats and shipped to europe or Asia.  It’s too dirty to use in this country.  When sold the proceeds will go to Canada, not in our pockets.  There won’t be any payout for letting it cross our lands.  What you refer to as the Left might just be some people who want to leave this land in somewhat decent condition for our children and grandchildren.  I wouldn’t want to sell my kid’s future for the sake of some greedy businessman in Wisconsin.  As for national security, maybe you should talk to Bush and the CEOs who sold out our manufacturing base to the Chinese.  The US has always prevailed in war because of it’s ability to produce more and better products than our adversaries.  What are we going to use now? Chinese built weapons?  Now that is scarey! and a better place to put your wrath.

          • Anonymous

            um if your paid to transport it in in our pocket.  the trains and the familys that are supported transporting managing and supporting in repair/parts/contractors // will all benefit.. and ships with maine men from portland will haul it.

          •  HMMWV,

            There are no new jobs here..this is just a reversal of flow on an exiting already built pipeline..In fact since Portland/South Portland’s port is entirely premised on diesel and can’t continue that if the pipeline is reversed and changed to tar sands we will most likely lose lots and lots of jobs.

            And worse, HMMWV, we have no say over that.  Maine has deferred all decisions on hazardous materials pipelines to the Federal Government.

          •  gsgofer..thank you for your accurate and very well informed post.

          • Anonymous

            Accurate up to the part about Bush……it was Clinton that signed NAFTA into law.  Yes, I know that it came out of the previous administration and Clinton didn’t have the guts to veto it. Perhaps folks would do well to remember that a politician is a politician . It dosen’t matter which side of the aisle he favors.

          •  woodchuckranger.. I am with you..the big mistakes that got us here were made by both dems and republicans.

        • What are you on and where can we all get some !

          •  Hi Mike Can you set the record straight here for those who think this simehow translates into new jobs for Maine?

          • Would this pipeline provide job’s ? Sure, for that company that is contracted to maintain it. Anyone wanna guess what company is the only one qualified to do so ?Am I slamming anyone ? No, just stating an established fact that we all know. But can the current pipeline be shutdown ? NO, and that really isn’t an option given the contractual obligations that the current pipeline owner has, both here and in Canada. Commerce is commerce !

            But the next logical arguement would be can the pipeline be replaced or upgraded for more safe operation ? That one is a no brainer. Y-E-S and the provision’s for it are already in place given that the pipelne owner already has the easement to provide physical space for it’s replacement or addition. And I defy anyone, of any persuasion or position, to show me where it’s not both good business, and good environmental policy and practice, to add to both safeguard’s and additional 3rd party (read that as INSURANCE COMPANY !) oversight to what the current pipeline operator is already doing. In addition, given that the pipeline is a means of transporting oil currently, this entire pipeline is already under the Fed’s jurisdiction by way of the NTSB. The 2 recent pipeline break’s, in Michigan and Montana, are being used by the NTSB as a guide toward upgrading their oversight and monitoring program’s. The Portland pipeline operator might be well advised to call them and see just what they found on those 2 pipeline’s and apply those lesson to the current Portland-Montreal pipeline BEFORE something goes wrong. Who knows, there might even be some upgrade’s to their system that both the Fed’s and the Insurance Company’s might actually pay for in advance of an accident (and save themselves a whole lot of grief, and settlement money, beforehand !). But to just sit here and whine and moan and complain is getting everyone no where. Ask question’s, research it out on a practical scale and basis (on both sides of the arguement), diagram it out (God, does anyone here still remember flow chart’s and 3-D drawing’s ?) and model it out to see where any physical reasons or problems might occur. But do it, don’t whine and cry about the Boogeyman of The Pipeline. We got LePage. Isin’t that enough for one State to cope with ?

          •  As always Mike..excellent post..thanks.. I agree the use of   third party vetting for all this petrochemical work ( natural gas, oil, pipeline lpg) pretty much excludes any possibility of local work or use of Maine contractors. 

            Were you able to follow up to see which Maine companies if any were vetted? 

            Have you had any comunications with the Labor Deprtmen on this to make sure that when  permits and applications are reviewed  this is discussed or to see about vetting Maine companies?  Companies that aren’t already vetted and members of the third party vetting organization will totally miss out on any possible jobs.  Important to get vetted first.

          • Lindsay, the ‘vetting ‘ process to work on these type pipelines is a huge one and is strictly regulated by both the State and the Fed’s. Given the materials and risk’s it’s a no-brainer to see why as it should be. The Sebago Lake risk alone is an easy ‘see why’ requirement for both training and proper planning.

            As far as the DOL, well, let’s just say that I am not on the Xmas Card List for the foreseeable future. I tried for 5 years to get help in finding a job thru the DOL and all I ever got was a bunch of meeting’s and card’s and people telling me that I just had ‘to get back out there and keep looking’. Please, does anyone else smell the moose on the road ? I even found out thru one of their more contientious folk’s that my file sat on my case worker’s desk for 2 YEARS WITHOUT ANYTHING BEING DONE. So when I call the DOL most times all I get is a hang-up. And people wonder why the DOL gets such a bad ‘rap’. Here in The County the DOL has all but retreated to Presque Isle and is seemingly terrified to come out and actually ask us what they can do and then match us with employer’s who need, but are afraid of, the real-world skills that a great many of us have.  

          • Mike..that should be an op ed..right to the heart of what we see here at these blogs all the time..people qulaified for work, willing to work and even retrain for any meaninguful long term opportunity but evrone ignoring the elephant in the room..

            To me that is taking the easy road all the time and just giving it away to anycorporation who walks through the door and mentions there high projected investmentlevel in mInae, the number of jobs to be created but without truly vetting the ocmpay, its porposoal, who will be eleigible for those jobs. Look at Cate Street in Millinocket..how disappointing is that after all these years and all these give aways and once again we are giving it away.

            That you..with your elogquence, your knowledge of labor issues, your deep history on labor issues in Maine can’t get satsfactory work to me says how screwed up the system is.

            I know it has no benefits, no paycheck, but Mike, the work you are doing here every day at these blogs serves, life, serves, justice, serves humanity..I am so grateful every time I bump into you here and read what you have said.

          • As has been said to me many times, including surviving 9-11 at 500 ft. ‘You’ll go home with God only when his To-Do list he has for you is finished’. Lindsay, at the rate he keeps adding on I am gonna be declared immortal. As Rodney King once said “Can’t we all just get along ?” In Maine that seems a long way off and I’m out here in the south end of The County so you know my odds are ! Anyone else wanna piece of this list, please, don’t be bashful. Come on up and graba piece !

          • I have worked with Construction  Pipefitter’s and Welders!

            Pipelines generally hire transcients from all across the country on big projects as the Manpower for them just isn’t there locally!

          • Clean up crews!

          •  if that even,,

          • Anonymous

            The ball my friend.

          • Coal– Pensylvania!

      • Anonymous

        Hell YA!!!!

    • Anonymous

      it wouldn’t really, if at all, all the inf structure is there already. It would be the same thing, just something different coming through the pipes

      • Anonymous

        It will creat jobs. It will mean more work for the Portland Pilots, the tug companies, chandlers and petroleum inspection companies.

        • Anonymous

          From what I understand they are just changing what is going through the pipes, so all the people that are transporting what is going through now will lose there jobs? I don’t see how this will create more jobs? If it requires different boats and handling then the people now will not be working. 

          • Anonymous

            That’s not true. They want to reverse one pipe line. Crude oil will be flowing in both directions. A ship can pump it’s load off and reload. That’s more work and it involves more people.

          •  MWB56..can you give us a link on that?  I hadn’t heard that.  But would that still allow the flow of the same volume of crude?  How many lines would still be flowing?

            Unless it will keep the same level of crude operations I don’t see  how there is not a negative impact on the port.

        • Guest

          • Anonymous

            Have you seen the Maine portion of the ROI? I doubt it.

          •  Can you tell us more about that Cheesecake?

          • Guest

            ——

        •  MWB56..No it will actually threaten the port.. the pipeline carrying diesel north is the heart of the Portland Port ..this will export tar sands out of Portland removing the entire flow of diesel around which the Portland port is organized.  No question it will cost many jobs in the Portland/South Portland  port and worse add to the cost of diesel in Maine.

          See, there is no reason for any oil tankers to bring oil to Portland if the pipeline is going the other way and not carrying any crude at all.

    • Anonymous

      Sure it will!  probably create a lot of jobs cleaning up their mess when the pipeline breaks.  Have you studied anything about this crap?  it has to be pumped at high pressure and it’s very abrasive.  A losing combination.  This junk won’t even be used in this country.  It wouldn’t even be considered if LePug wasn’t under their thumb!

    •  Jon,

      We have to stop and notice that a high price tag investment by private operators does not always translate into permanent or even temporary jobs. This is just a bout a reversal of flow to the existing Montreal-Portland pipeline.  There is no new construction..no new route.

      Also there is a question about the overall impact on portland if the flow were reversed and lalocated to tar sands only.  The entire oil centered port in Portland/South Portland and all those permanent jibs have been about ordinary crude coming into Portland. Allocating the pipeline to tar sands only and outflow to Houston refineries and other global destinations would dramatically change and perhaps cost many jobs in the port.

      Another issue for all of us in Maine is why should we take on the huge risks of transporting tar sands when even in its refined state it is still too dirty for use in the U.S.A and most of Europe. 

      So it would impair the flow of ordinary diesel fuel to and within Maine for a product that provides us with no benefit at all in terms of cost of and availability of oil.

      So given all that, what do you think Jon.  Is it worth for Maine to take the risk of allowing a pass through of a very dangerous product that will most likely costs us lots of jobs in Portland/South Portland Ports,d increase the cost of oil in Maine and provide no temporary jobs.?

      And right now, Jon, without a change in Maine’s statutes  Maine may have very little to say about that.  The State has deferred entirely to the Federal Government and will have no say whatsoever in the flow reversal decision.  What do you think about that, Jon?

  • Guest

    Lets never build anything, anywhere, ever. In fact lets just turn Maine into a giant nature preserve where people live in mud huts and hit the ground with sticks. 

    • Anonymous

      Its not building anything, just putting something different through the pipes

      • Guest

        Then what is the problem?

        • Anonymous

          They say that the new stuff will put to much strain on the 65 year old pipe because it requires more to be pumped through, also it is more toxic and has more chemicals making a leak that more more serious. 

          • Guest

            Then fix the pipe. That would be a good contract for some small company.

          • Anonymous

            Yes it would, but they didn’t mention fixing the pipe. It would be a great job a big job, most likely go to a bigger company that can handle it. Course that is assuming they have any intention of fixing the pipe. 

          • Replacing big pipe’s in Maine on a Canadian project. Why do I smell Cianbro in the room ?

          • Anonymous

            Cianbro is a great corporation, Hiring great Maine people. 

          • Thats Funny, I always heard that they where a Scab Outfit!

          • Anonymous

            You say that because it isn’t going through your neighborhood!

          • Anonymous

             or a big one.

          •  wrong again Woodbooger..most of the pipeline/petroleum products companies do all their contracting and procurement through a pre qualified bidders list with very strict training, certification, insurance and bonding, safety programs etc.  As far as I know no Maine companies are on the list.  Any jbs or services woud be only from approved vendors.

          • Anonymous

            boogy mans coming too

          • Anonymous

            yes cause nothing could ever go wrong

          • Anonymous

            The original pipe line is 65 years old and it hasn’t been used in years. Don’t believe all you read.

        • Anonymous

          The problem is that it is the dirtiest oil on the planet!  It is thick and it is very abrasive.  That means they have to put all kinds of nasty stuff in it to thin it down just so it will flow.  I am sure it smells just like Koch crap!  that’s who is pulling the strings.

          • Anonymous

            no i think its smeels like obama thick and ****************

          • Anonymous

            How do you know that??? Show me where KOCH is involved in this.

          • Anonymous

            “These sources reveal that Koch Industries has touched virtually every aspect of the tar sands industry since the company established a toehold in Canada more than 50 years ago. It has been involved in mining bitumen, the hydrocarbon resin found in the oil sands; in pipeline systems to collect and transport Canadian crude; in exporting the heavy oils to the U.S.; in refining the sulfurous, low-grade feedstock; and in the subsequent distribution and sale of a variety of finished products, from jet fuel to asphalt.” 
            http://insideclimatenews.org/news/20120510/koch-industries-brothers-tar-sands-bitumen-heavy-oil-flint-pipelines-refinery-alberta-canada

    • u would be surprised how many would pay for that privilege

    • Anonymous

      Better yet…Let’s have the Canadians crap in their own back yard and leave Maine the way it is!

    •  Woodbooger..this isn’t building anything new…it is just reversing the flow in the pipeline and having it carry tar sands south instead of diesel/crude north>

  • Guest

    While I don’t agree with the conspiratorial aspect, your logic is sound.

  • Anonymous

    Look at the USA compared to other countries, we are not #1. To say so is just folly. We have a lot of coal, but coal runs out, oil runs out. Most of what we use for energy runs out. We have to have someone sticking up for our environment, cause last time I check mother nature doesn’t have a lawyer. But i forget if we ruin this planet we can just move on to the next one.

    •  “Mother Nature” has more lawyers and self-appointed guardians that anything else!

      Yes, fossil fuels eventually run out, except that to date (a few billion years so far) NONE EVER HAS!!!

      • Guest

        • Anonymous

          Oil will never run out. It will become unaffordable first .

      • Anonymous

        Yes Humans have been using fossil fuels for billions of years. 

      • Anonymous

        Try less than 200 years. And there are plenty of dried up oil wells.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe we need an Old Order Amish for president to show how to live well without being so wasteful. Humans will survive without the Lear jets and mega yachts. We dont’ need wind turbines either

    • Anonymous

      “Mother Nature” a completely farcical and made up notion, has more lawyers and lackies pushing “her” (made up since “she” doesn’t exist) agenda than any real person, with real needs.

      Practice common sense. Look into the real problems, not imagined ones. Plan for a mishap and mitigate its likelihood. Then have a remediation system ready to act if the unexpectrd happens.

      All mature industries do this.

      The same arguments (against doing something new) have always been heard…and always sound the same. If we put in trains, what will happen to the drovers and the environment. If we try to fly, evwryone will die. Cars replace horses? The entire country will perish. All these fledgling industries went ahead. Made mistakes. Learned and improved.

      The price of living is risk. Get a plan to deal with it and move foward.

      • Anonymous

        I have no issue with moving forward. These companies are not going to just pay when there is a problem on there own accord. They are going to be force to pay through penalties or regulations. Who enforces those? The state, the towns, which use tax payer dollars. 
        As for “mother nature” Where else are we going to live? What other planets do we have? Last time I checked we are only growing as a population, getting close to capacity on this planet. We need to start taking as good of care of it as we possible can because we do not anywhere else to go. 

  • “There is an element in the environmental left that wants to undermine the U.S. and topple it from it’s # 1 position of greatness. ”

    What exactly is the US #1 at?

    BTW: Frank weeps  being associated with someone such as yourself.

  • Boo Hoo Southern Maine. You have no problem electing governors who turn Northern/Central Maine into a dumpsite…(“Mount Baldacci” in Alton,) … How “dare” you run an oil pipeline through the “important” part of the state!!!???

    Normally, I would oppose something like this…But I’m actively promoting it since it will be passing through Maine’s “Volvo” sector. It’s time Southern Mainers feel the same type of pressure that people in other parts of the state do… People in the south have no problem with other states trucking their trash to Alton… Why should I care about someone piping tar sand oil?

    http://wikimapia.org/4322300/Juniper-Ridge-West-Old-Town-Landfill

  • Anonymous

    What the radical environmental left is trying to do is prevent the US from becoming the environmental disaster that IS China. Most environmentalists in China have been locked up or beaten into silence by the communist regime. What’s the result? Beijing on a “good” day when you can barely see the distance of one city block because the yellow, acrid smog that is causing alarming rates of lung cancer;  or the Yangtze river – one of the longest in the world – turning RED because of chemicals illegally discharged into it; or 75 billion tons of sewage and waste water dumped in to other major sources of drinking water for over 1/2 billion people. Should we do away with all regulations and create another Love Canal, Exxon Valdez or Three Mile Island? 

    •  “Most environmentalists in China have been locked up or beaten into silence by the communist regime.”

      You can do that to them? Really? When can we start?

      • Anonymous

        Soon as you move to China.

      • Anonymous

        If you want your children to drink and recreate in polluted water, throw them in your septic tank. I’d rather my kids and grandkids had some clean water for those purposes, thanks.

    • Ben Hutchins

      TMI might not be the best example, since it’s actually a success story for the Western model of reactor safety.  See, you can’t prevent 100% of emergencies in any field of human endeavor, because we live in an inherently imperfect universe – but you can do what TMI’s designers and operators did. There was an emergency, it was contained, nobody died, and there’s no 30-mile exclusion zone around the crumbling, abandoned ruins of Harrisburg.  That’s a win for nuclear power.

      • Anonymous

        No, that is doing your job. There job is to make sure this doesn’t happen. There job is to make sure emergency get contained. 

    • Anonymous

      Might I add the Baiyun Obo rare earth mining region to your list of env. horrors?

    • Anonymous

      Keep voting for Obama pal, and this is exactly where you’re headed…

      • Anonymous

        That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

  • Anonymous

    How can one state contain so many “not-bright” people. The same people fighting any job creation or progress in the state are most likely the same ones living off the government teet

  • Ben Hutchins

     I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the “topple from #1 position of greatness” thing happened… some time ago.

  • Anonymous

    Once again it’s people like this that stop the growth in Maine. Get a life and let someone else in this state have a life. There are no jobs here and people are moving out faster then you can blink. Where do you think that is going to leave the State? Broke!!!! If the NRCM doesn’t get it’s way they will find a bug that is endangered and stop everything to protect the bug. Who cares????  If not a bug then a tree or plant or weed anything to stop progress in Maine. Most of these people are not from Maine. They moved here because they couldn’t get this kind of crap done in the state they are from. Go back where you came from. Your ideas and yourself are not wanted here.

    • Anonymous

      This is not really going to have any positive impact for Maine, Few new jobs if any. The potential environmental impact could be great if there was a leak. We can’t just cookie cut these project through, we have to stop and look to see if it was really worth it;

      • One more of my To-Do list checked off. Thanks Mero !!!!!

  • I wish we had a couple of nuke plants and a refinery in Maine.  I am fed up with the elites, that can afford $300,000 homes, (and all the high priced oil to heat those homes) telling the poor folk what to do.  My suggestion, move next door to one of these environmentalists and burn your trash outside whenever you get a chance.  I can hear them coughing from my house!

  • Anonymous

    This will mean a lot of jobs without spending one dollar of the taxpayer’s money. The crude that will go to refineries on the east coast, will be loaded on U.S. flagged ships. Those ships will be manned by Maine Maritime graduates.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not necessarily opposed to this proposal, but it doesn’t sound like it’s much of a jobs bonanza.  Presently, tankers drop off oil to pump north through the pipeline.  The new proposal would have tankers picking up oil that was pumped south through the pipeline.  Where’s the flood of new jobs coming from?

      • Anonymous

        The crude will flow both ways. The more ships in Portland Harbor, the more work and more people. This will be long time job security for several companies.

        • Anonymous

          And the companies handling the load from the pipe that will be reversed?

  • Anonymous

    While they build access roads and  platforms for 19 wind turbines in Eastbrook (in Hancock County) which will only employ a few workers to maintain the wind turbines after completion , everyone is screaming about an existing pipeline that has been carrying oils for years. Upgrade the pipeline and pump away.
    In both of these projects, we, the people of Maine shouldn’t expect to see any huge benefits… most of the money will all go to the investors and to the lobbyists. 

    • Anonymous

      “In both of these projects, we, the people of Maine shouldn’t expect to
      see any huge benefits… most of the money will all go to the investors
      and to the lobbyists.”

      As it should.  In a capitalist system, the investment return always goes to the investors, and those who support the investor’s ability to invest.  It’s called the American Dream.  We used to know what that meant.

      In a socialist/communist system, which this State and Nation are quickly leaning toward, the money goes to the governmental conspirators who grease the skids for their special interests.  And by the time the money trickles down to the common man, he can buy part of a cup of government milk with it.  I’ll take the American Dream, thank you very much!

      • Anonymous

        A capitalist system should not be  a corporate welfare system which it is becoming.

        • Anonymous

          True enough. Remove all of the double taxation and the subsidies and let the market operate.

  • Guest

    ….

    • Guest

      You make the assumption that all people want to do is slash and burn Maine’s environment. Some people want to improve the state for those who live here while minimizing the environmental impacts . Just because a road or a pipeline gets built it doesn’t mean that the skies will turn black and all the animals will die.

      Get some perspective.

      • Guest

        ….

        •  Then you need to sell your car(s) that are polluting our air, turn off your furnace that’s using up all our resources and insist your kids move out of state before they want to build a house here, further destroying even a little piece of the natural beauty of Maine!

          Like EVERYWHERE else, Maine has to grow to survive. It can’t be one big hippie commune  forever.

          • Guest

            ////

          • Anonymous

            whiner -move to florida 

          • Guest

            ….

  • Not to be a party pooper but it’s been estimated by the folk’s in the State’s DEP planning office that if any of these tar sands get into Sebago Lake that Portland’s gonna need a municipal water system. These same folk’s have costed this out to the tune of $146 MILLION DOLLAR’S for that system to be built. Now, anyone got some loose change for this little boo-boo ? Ante up folk’s. And not to add gas to the fire but has anyone seen the connection between this tar sand’s route and what Cianbro / Irving want’s, namely the E-W Highway ‘easement’ ? Not everyone above Bangor is asleep !

  • Anonymous

    Pipeline is the way to move oil.  Safe, efficient, quick, and necessary.  

    • This sludge is not the oil the pipline was designed for, and it will not be just the sludge, but other even nastier chemicals needed to make the sludge “flow”. Let Canada pipe it across their own lakes and lands.

      • Anonymous

        gee your some expert .. you think they dont know what it can sustain ..wow lets see if we can look at your job and find some way to micromanage you

        • Anonymous

          The pipeline was designed and built over 60 years ago to transport diesel fuel (VERY thin oil) from south to north. Now they want to use it to transport tar sand (VERY thick, VERY caustic, will not flow at room temperature) under extreme temperature and pressure, in the opposite direction. This is like expecting your plastic water bottle to hold molten iron with no problem.

  • Chobs? We doan nee no steenkin’ chobs!

  • Anonymous

    It’s a pipeline.  They will do with it what it was designed to do: move oil and other chemicals through it.  This is a great example of people not minding their own business.  The builders of this line went through whatever the required process was when it was built.  They maintain the rights to use the pipe for lawful purposes.  They should not have to justify to anyone why they want to use it.  It is their right.

    This discussion is sort of like going to a homeowner and saying, “You mean you want to LIVE in the house?’  Oh no, we don’t think you should do that!!!  You might actually want to use the septic system, and we just can’t have that, now can we?

    The pipeline crosses Sebago Lake today.  And guess what: oil goes through it today.  Get over it!

    • Anonymous

      Funny, its a pipeline that goes through Maine, if there is a leak it Damages Maine. The problem is that Tar Sands are much nastier then Crude Oil. It takes more to push it throught the pipes, The pipes are already really old. Its not like this is a business that to doing something on its own land. They are on Maine Land making it all of our business. 

      • Anonymous

        The pipeline is on an easement PURCHASED by the pipeline company – so it is on their own land as a matter of legal title.  The fact that it COULD damage Maine is a matter of regulation. If the pipeline is not safe enough to transport the product, the state and federal environmental laws govern.  If the penalties are not stiff enough to deter reckless action, which I do not believe this to be, then change the law.  Why anyone is even aware of the plan to reverse the line is a mystery to me.  It’s not like they need permission.  They pay their property taxes, as they have for years, and are running a business.  We should all mind ours and let them do what they are entitled to do under the law.

        • Anonymous

          What about the drinking water? The streams, the lakes? did they purchase those as well? ? I am not talking about the land that pipe is on but the land around it, the environment that can be affected. Potential cost to the state and its people. This could potentially affect Mainers that have no connection to the pipeline. Therefore it is our business. This isn’t a business that is just using its own land with no possibility of affecting the people around it. We need to make sure that there is no potential cost to the state or its people. I am not against this, what I am against is just cookie cutting this through without looking at potential impacts.

          • Anonymous

            What about the drinking water? This pipeline currently pumps oil from Portland to Montreal. There is the same current risk to drinking water. If the pipe is not safe enough to be used for the purpose, then the company faces penalties associated with cleanup. This is an existing pipeline. The company should not be required to justify a permitted use. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone. From : Disqus Subject : [bdn] Re: Energy company’s plan to move tar sands oil through Maine meets opposition in Portland rally mero818 wrote, in response to Ninelake: What about the drinking water? The streams, the lakes? did they purchase those as well? what about peoples drinking water? I am not talking about the land that pipe is on but the land around it, the environment that can be affected. Potential cost to the state and its people. This could potentially affect Mainers that have no connection to the pipeline. Therefore it is our business. Link to comment Ninelake wrote: The pipeline is on an easement PURCHASED by the pipeline company – so it is on their own land as a matter of legal title. The fact that it COULD damage Maine is a matter of regulation. If the pipeline is not safe enough to transport the product, the state and federal environmental laws govern. If the penalties are not stiff enough to deter reckless action, which I do not believe this to be, then change the law. Why anyone is even aware of the plan to reverse the line is a mystery to me. It’s not like they need permission. They pay their property taxes, as they have for years, and are running a business. We should all mind ours and let them do what they are entitled to do under the law. —– Options: Reply with “Like”to like this comment, or respond in the body to post a reply comment. To turn off notifications

          • Anonymous

            Except for the fact that when the pipe line was built 65 years ago, it was not built to carry tar sand oil, which is harder to pump and has much nastier chemicals. So yes they need to justify the use and give reassurances that they will take care of anything that goes wrong quickly, and that the pipe can actually handle it. Yes there are penalties, but who has to enforce those penalties? Who has to go out and look at leaks, tell them to clean up where? The state and towns, which will cost tax payers money. I am sorry, this doesn’t just affect the business. You think these guys are just going to say, oops there was a leak, here is all the money to pay for it? No it will have to go to court and possible litigation. People might have to sue.

          • Anonymous

            The risk is not the same. Tar sand is not diesel oil.

          • Anonymous

            What about the drinking water? This pipeline currently pumps oil from Portland to Montreal. There is the same current risk to drinking water. If the pipe is not safe enough to be used for the purpose, then the company faces penalties associated with cleanup. This is an existing pipeline. The company should not be required to justify a permitted use. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone. From : Disqus Subject : [bdn] Re: Energy company’s plan to move tar sands oil through Maine meets opposition in Portland rally mero818 wrote, in response to Ninelake: What about the drinking water? The streams, the lakes? did they purchase those as well? what about peoples drinking water? I am not talking about the land that pipe is on but the land around it, the environment that can be affected. Potential cost to the state and its people. This could potentially affect Mainers that have no connection to the pipeline. Therefore it is our business. Link to comment Ninelake wrote: The pipeline is on an easement PURCHASED by the pipeline company – so it is on their own land as a matter of legal title. The fact that it COULD damage Maine is a matter of regulation. If the pipeline is not safe enough to transport the product, the state and federal environmental laws govern. If the penalties are not stiff enough to deter reckless action, which I do not believe this to be, then change the law. Why anyone is even aware of the plan to reverse the line is a mystery to me. It’s not like they need permission. They pay their property taxes, as they have for years, and are running a business. We should all mind ours and let them do what they are entitled to do under the law. —– Options: Reply with “Like”to like this comment, or respond in the body to post a reply comment. To turn off notifications

        • Anonymous

          Part of an environmental impact assessment includes assessment of the potential impact to the human residents in the vicinity of the pipeline – the “environment”. Changing the direcction of flow in this pipeline, especially if it has been inactive for a significant amount of time, is a change of use or a resumption of an abandoned use, and public review and comment is warranted.

          • Anonymous

            This pipeline is not inactive, to my understanding.  It has been pumping oil from the Portland terminal.  Changing the direction of flow is not a change of use.  Changing the material flowing through the line is not a change of use, as long as the material flowing through the pipe is suitable for the design of the pipe.  The assurances these folks have to give are the same assurances they give today.  Their responsibility is the same today or should they choose to change the material use of the pipe.  They are responsible for spills.  The feds and state DEP oversee potential for spills.  The spill response teams provide for any cleanup, and the company is required to reimburse for costs, or clean it up themselves, or both.

  • Guest

    ////

  •  to the impacts on the other jobs that rely on the health of the watershed,” Voorhees said.

    Watershed.  Mother Earth’s life blood.  King Angus and NRCM promote cracking the life blood and then poisoning it, killing the winged ones along the way.

    Medicinal marijuana, grown in Maine?  Now, that is jobs taken away from BIG insurane.  Bon Apitet’

  • Good God, they have to stop this monstrosity before someone actually makes a buck!

  • Anonymous

    Interesting comments, but remember this: whenever there is a preceived threat to the environment; the NRCM and others crank up the printing presses and appeal for donations to fight this evil (insert whatever you think they would say..)________.  I also doubt the acidity claims….what is the acidity pH 7.3 ??????

    • Anonymous

      Did you lean too far right?  My last chemistry course was about 25 years ago, but as I remember, a material with a pH of 7.3 is basic, not acidic.

      • Anonymous

        Recheck your theory, 7.4 is considered neutral, higher numbers are base values; lower numbers are acidic. The human body runs between 7.35 to 7.45 (depending on respiratory and metabolic status….). Besides, have you ever been inside the NRCM office when a “prime” event has occured ????

  • Anonymous

    Hmm, well let’s build a refinery on Sears Island and pipe it to Searsport!

    • Anonymous

      Excellent idea, that island is ripe for the taking :D

  • Anonymous

    Where was NRCM when Baldacci brokered Juniper Ridge? Why didn’t he meet the same opposition. It’s a huge out of state trash pile just waiting to become an environmental disaster, but just because the Dems were behind it, no one b*tched about it. Baldi was a hero for keeping G.P. from moving out of state.

  • Anonymous

    Sewage lines cross drinking water sources all the time. Often, they are pressurized, and contain caustic, toxic, and dangerous products, too. What ever shall we do?

  • Guest

    another pipleine Peter wants to put on HIS highway.. don’t think so??

    • Nice to see not everyone is asleep at the wheel !

  • Anonymous

    Why don’t they upgrade the Montreal refinery to handle the tar sands? These tankers use too much fuel to be shipping slop back and forth along the Atlantic coast. Maybe they will use sail power…

    • Anonymous

      That’s a very good question. SUNCOR owns the last refinery in Montreal. The Imperial refinery shut down a few years ago. The Shell refinery shut down about one year ago. Those three terminals are supplied by the Portland Pipe Line. Now they supply only one refinery.I believe that it would be too expensive. I know this is hard to believe….Refiners lose money. If you buy crude on the spot market for $100.00 a barrel, then refine it and sell it for $100.00 a barrel that refinery will be shut down. The refineries on the east coast want that crude oil. IRVING is already recieving it by rail and that’s that’s not the best way to transport crude oil.The St. Croix refinery shut down a couple of months ago. That refinery produced 650,000 barrels a day. In other words it lost $4, 400,000,000.00 a year. The island of St. Croix will suffer. 

  • Anonymous

    awesome idea lets create some jobs .. oil is so much less risky than paper chemicals .. go for it !

  • Anonymous

    Dylan Voorhees is an out of stater yuppie twit whose job at NRCM is to natter on and on that anything related in any way to fossil fuels is “dirty” and whose idea of energy is nothing but industrial wind power and solar panels.

    • Anonymous

      Who signs his paycheck???

  • Guest

    It’ll be easy to see who gets paid off on this one,

  • Oh my God ! Sanity and actual thinking the whole situation and process through, In Maine no less. I thought I would never see the day. You go Ben and never, ever let anyone tell you to go along to get along !

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