Comments for: Should fathers have rights with unwanted children? COMMENTARY Should fathers have rights with unwanted children? Take the idea of "a woman's right to choose." The man's opinion is only secondary, and if there is a conflict, entirely negligible. Read More Should fathers have rights with unwanted children? Back to story → Guidelines for posting on bangordailynews.com The Bangor Daily News and the Bangor Publishing Co. encourage comments about stories, but you must follow our terms of service. Keep it civil and stay on topic No vulgarity, racial slurs, name-calling or personal attacks. People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked. The primary rule here is pretty simple: Treat others with the same respect you'd want for yourself. Here are some guidelines (see more): It should be noted this is not a comprehensive list. Don't insult one another or the subjects of BDN stories. 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Quite often, we won't see a comment until it's reported. Questions about why a comment was — or wasn't — deleted? E-mail us at firstname.lastname@example.org and let us know your username and where you posted or saw the comment. That's about it: Stick to writing about the stories; be civil; be kind; enlighten your neighbors. And we'll keep moderating posts to try to ensure everyone meets those standards. Anonymous “There are some things that are better left not talked about, and what you would do if you accidentally conceived a child seems like it might be one of them”….. If you haven’t had the “what if” talks with someone, you shouldn’t be hopping into bed with them. Period. End of Story. Anonymous Thoughtful article. Easily the first feeling that comes to mind is that both are responsible, regardless of the circumstance. However, it does present a good argument to say the circumstance and feelings of both parties should be considered. The problem with that argument is that our society is (was) a family based society, with family based rules. As time moves forward, we have become less of a family unit, and less responsible, opening the door for this argument. If a person were to accept the argument, they would also have to accept the loss of the family unit concept, and the consequences of restructuring extend further than within our own homes. Anonymous Wholehearterly agree facts are that the family unit has already broken down. One half of all children born to under 30 are born out of wedlock. These conversations are over due. Mothers have been liberated and men have been more enslaved by the system of dead beat dads. Ponuwon Brodeur I believe that it is a “woman’s right to choose” so long as it is not a basis for birth control. While the pregnancy resides within a woman’s body, it should be her decision because of everything that happens to a woman during pregnancy. That being said, IF the father in this situation decides he wants a termination or adoption (and his willingness to provide the means to that end) and is adamant on that throughout, he should thereby have no rights or responsibilities (including financial support) if the mother decides to keep the pregnancy and follow through with keeping the child. It is the woman’s right to choose whether or not to terminate, it is the man’s right to choose to support or leave without consequence on either party. Anonymous In our sick society, surly its ok for those who have killed over 53 million unborn children, to have total say over a Child. Anonymous I seriously doubt these people are taking both sides of this coin into consideration. If the man has equal say, what happens when she wants to keep the baby and he wants an abortion? I guarantee there are more men that are for the abortion than against it. Anonymous That was taken into consideration. ” He said, “Then the man shouldn’t be responsible for the baby.”” If he doesn’t want the baby and she does, then she is taking full responsibility for the child and he should be off the hook. If she can decide to kill the baby he wants, if she wants the baby and he doesn’t then it’s her choice to raise the baby alone. Anonymous The problem is that men will never have equal say. If men had a womb, and were capable of carrying a child to term, that would be more grounds for equality. Rog Clarke a man can claim he wants his genetic material back if the woman has misused it for purposes unintended(to create a child) instead of lubricant as intended then what? its theft if she keeps it and misuses it.. Mark Neil Biological differences are an unacceptable excuse for denying equality with regards to hiring in physically demanding jobs such as firefighters, construction workers, paramedics, etc. Doesn’t matter the risk to potential clients should the woman’s physical limitations get in the way. But this is rather irrelevant, given nobody is actually discussing forcing a woman to have an abortion, or carry to term against her will here. But some people are soo opposed to men being included in the right to equality, they kneejerk at the first mention of it with whatever is the closest excuse they can think of to oppose it. Guest … Anonymous And to hell with the rights of the child? Guest //// Anonymous This issue is not that black and white. Guest ….. Rog Clarke if the woman has the right to an abortion then the man has the right not to be financially responsible, the only time you can say a man is financially responsible is if it becomes a legal child at conception which would make abortion murder and completely turn over Roe VS WADE… Guest ……. Rog Clarke agreed! Anonymous That’s fine but if a child is conceived and the woman chooses to keep it against the wishes of the father he should be able to sign away his rights and be absolved of all responsibility including financial. Period! Guest … Anonymous I agree 100 percent and it SHOULD be her choice and her choice alone. However if you hold to that then how can you justify going after the father to pay for a decision he has ZERO say in? If the right is good for the mother then you can not deny the same right for the father to bow out if he chooses right? Anonymous I’ve had this conversation with my misses many times over. I’ve known men who wanted to keep children but the women had abortions. It was heartbreaking to be around them when this took place it truly was. If women want the right to choose I’m ok with that but both parties laid down not just the men and as such both parties need to accept a certain amount of responsibility to each other in regards to the decision making. Anonymous If people would just take responsibility BEFORE they have sex to insure that an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy does not occur this would be less of an issue. How anyone in this day and age gets pregnant when they don’t want to is beyond me (and I’m not talking about rape or incest, etc.) Sex can equal a child…. DUH…..either don’t have sex or take precautions to insure that if you do have sex…..an ‘accident’ does not occur……OY! Rog Clarke the truth is that these are no longer “accidents” they are a payday for women, a 20 year long payday, where i am if a guy lives with a woman and her kids he can be sued for child support at the judges discretion EVEN IF SHE IS ALREADY RECEIVING IT!!!!! yes thats right they are allowed to double dip in canada,, and you wonder why there are all these “accidental” pregnancies…. Payday Payday Payday…. Mark Neil I think that is a little optimistic, as child support isn’t all that much money when you consider baby expenses. But for someone who wants a baby one way or the other, a baby plus paycheck is a far better option than a baby alone, let alone paying a fertility clinic for a baby with no chance of getting a paycheck. Rog Clarke what you are missing is that they can get child support from the biological dad and the next guy and the next guy and the next guy and it amounts to 30% per child of his grosse earnings up to a maximum of 70% so 2 kids and hes screwed try and tell me thats not a payday? not enuf to cover a childs costs? are you kidding? its more than the guy will get to live on…. Anonymous Then don’t live with a woman who has kids….problem solved. Rog Clarke never fear when they start asking about moving in together i start looking elsewhere because im very upfront about that particular trap… Mark Neil ” If people would just take responsibility BEFORE they have sex to insure that an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy does not occur this would be less of an issue.” Being less of an issue still doesn’t change the fact it would still be an issue. and issues need to be dealt with before they get worst. “How anyone in this day and age gets pregnant when they don’t want to is beyond me” Makes you wonder how many of those “accidents” really are “accidents”. And when you consider that, it really makes you wonder why men aren’t given more rights in this regards. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2056875/Liz-Jones-baby-craving-drove-steal-husbands-sperm-ultimate-deception.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2059548/Four-men-reveal-trauma-dad-deception.html Anonymous Ummm I have yet to meet a woman – who all by herself has gotten pregnant….Boys you can either wrap it up, not have sex or have a vasectomy….all I know is that I would NOT rely on the other person to insure there would be no accidents……it takes two to make a child….so it should take two to insure that there is no child by accident. Rog Clarke OR we can have equality with womens choices? i wrapped it when my GF accidentally poked holes in it tyvm surgical alteration is not required of women or would you deny them abortion? roe vs wade actually made laws so we dont “have to keep it in our pants” if you keep saying that then deny women their right to abortion because this is what they were told when they requested this right and feminists fought against it and won so “keep it in your pants” doesnt fly here or anywhere the supreme court has already decided on that one…… let me even quote it for you ” When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to ‘involuntary servitude’ in violation of the Thirteenth Amendment….[E]ven if the woman has stipulated to have consented to the risk of pregnancy, that does not permit the state to force her to remain pregnant Anonymous There is a problem with this mode of thought. A lot of our culture believes that because the woman undergoes the physical and emotional changes during preganancy, it is our responsibility to respect them with compliance in whatever decision that they decide to make. Eye for an Eye. The only way that we can make sure that the man is completely able to make the decision about the future of the child is to genetically engineer them with a womb, with all the other bits and pieces. Only then, will things be equal. Mark Neil Standard opposition to including men in the whole equality bit. nobody is asking for control over ACTUAL abortion or carrying to term, this is a discussion of men’s responsibility, largely that of financial responsibility. how does having a womb affect financial responsibility in any way? The fact is, as is always the case in this discussion, you are attempting to twist this from a discussion of men’s choice to walk away and leave the woman with the responsibility SHE CHOOSE to accept, and twist that into opposing a man’s option to control the course of her pregnancy. This distorts the discussion to something it never was, for the sole purpose of ensuring female entitlement continues unopposed. Why not try to actually debate the real points? But as Funcaz says about, noone ever can. Anonymous Catch 22 here. If a woman can force the father to pay for a child he does not want then a father should be able to get the child the mother does not want. Rog Clarke go one better the father who is assumed to support the child should have first rights of custody as well before the mother and should get custody unless he doesnt want it,, where are all the fathers? ok now you got em and women will have to pay the support…fixt! Lisa I think unless you are in this situation, than it is no one elses business but the person involved. Rog Clarke men have suffered in silence with this situation for decades while many women reaped the rewards and we are sick of it,, btw it becomes nobody elses business the second theres no laws forcing men to pay and subsidize womens choices,, thats when it becomes nobody elses business ,, when womens choices have no consequence for anyone else(including the unborn) thats when it becomes nobodies business,, till then its EVERYONES business….. Mark Neil That would all be fine and dandy if there weren’t LAWS IN PLACE TO DO JUST THAT! Courts order support payments and enforce those orders with threat of jail (debtors prisons, otherwise deemed unconstitutional, except for men). so unless you are suggesting the laws for support and custody also be dismantled, then you’r setting up an female centric exception, clearly self interested. Remember, this isn’t a pro-life/pro-choice discussion, this is a men’s rights discussion, and what you’re saying is that men shouldn’t have any rights, they should only have the consequences of a woman’s choice. Anonymous I’ve never heard a rational argument against allowing a man to relinquish all reponsibility and obligations toward a child he never wanted in the first place . So really , if a man can simply tell a woman right from the start “Okay … have the baby . I’m not paying for anything more than half the cost of an abortion if you change your mind . ” we can actually avoid an awful lot of expense , trouble , and time . She can actually factor that in to her decision on whether or not to proceed with or terminate the pregnancy . Oh , and by the way , how many single young mothers are on welfare ? Many (maybe even most) but their inability to pay a dime doesn’t get them thrown in prison . We don’t demand that they pay back any of that money either . Where does her financial responsibility begin ? Yes , it’s a rhetorical question because in theory at least , she’s supposed to be too busy taking care of the kid for the first few years to get any sort of full time work . Nevertheless , they could trade responsibilities couldn’t they ? She has the kid , he gets custody , she gets the job and pays support , he stays home and collects welfare . Sounds ridiculous right ? For some reason , it’s not ridiculous when millions of women do it . Mark Neil ” How many deadbeat dads would step forward with their reluctance, their ambivalence, as a way to worm their way out of responsibility?” I suspect that number will be around the same as the number of women, with their reluctance, their ambivalence, as they worm their way out of responsibility by having abortions… or do you see these two as different? Granted, you may see more men doing so, given women generally know when they and/or the man are properly using birth control, a man only knows of his own proper use, and can easily be deceived by a woman wanting a baby he doesn’t… and there is plenty of evidence to demonstrate this happens often enough to be a concern. “It is very hard to see how this could be written into law, the didn’t-want-him argument, without wide-scale abuse and harm to the children involved. ” All of a sudden the concern for the child comes into play. Awfully convenient that concern for the child doesn’t begin until after the woman gets her shot at opting out, don’t you think? I guess vacuming the child out of the womb doesn’t produce any abuse or harm to the child involved, right? The reason this is an issue is because of where you have chosen to draw the line, a women gets to choose before birth, a man doesn’t get to choose until after. That’s the line you’ve drawn… but the fact is, the man should be getting to choose before birth too (and if he doesn’t, that’s because he was kept out of the process, and thus the woman has already chosen to take on the responsibilities themselves (and so, reneging on that is not acceptable). So if the man gets to opt out at the same time the woman does (before birth), then where is the problem? the woman can still make the choice to abort, else she CHOOSES to take on the financial burden solo, and does so going into it. The only abuse or harm that comes to the child is due to the mothers own choices, not any irresponsibility from the fathers. But of course, our society is unwilling to hold women responsible for anything, so a man must always be found to lay the blame.