Comments for: Rock Church decides to leave Brewer after expansion permit denied

Posted March 26, 2012, at 8:17 p.m.

BREWER | When the Rock Church applied for a permit to expand its North Brewer Shopping Plaza location in January, city officials discovered that churches are not allowed in the strip mall because of zoning. Now the church is moving to Bangor. “A church is not allowed in that …

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  • Anonymous

    This church is great, god giving preaching, good luck

    • Anonymous

      that church has serious flaws, but in the fight with code enforcement, i support the church.

      • Thanks for supporting their case… But about the ‘serious flaws’ jab- I’ll bite- Have you been to The Rock? Or just passing judgment sight unseen? Just curious…

        • Anonymous

          Pretty sure we know the answer there. I have not been to TRC but know many that do attend. They speak very highly of the message they receive.

      • Guest

        What flaws

      • I would be curious about the flaws you see as well… Obviously, no church is the perfect fit for everyone;  but I have not heard anything negative about TRC either.  If any church could work perfectly for any person, there would be no need to have as many different denominations and churches that we do.

        • Anonymous

          curious enough to actually openmindedly look at the flaws, or curious enough to just defend… everyone who ever attends a church will hear something negative, unless you turn a deaf ear and blindly follow… that church is full of complainers, you must be new or deaf

          • I do not attend TRC myself, and know of only a couple people that do.  So, the idea that I am new there or deaf doesn’t work in this situation.  I like to consider myself open-minded and level-headed.  I know that you obviously have some concerns and issues about this church… but, would it be fair to ask if you are also open-minded about the church on a whole or at this point are you so “tainted” by your experience there that you yourself can not be objective as well?

  • Anonymous

    Well, I won’t be sad to see them go.

    • Anonymous

      Why, were they creating problems?

      • Anonymous

        Not that I know of.  Of course, I’m atheist, so, it doesn’t really hurt my feelings to see one less church.  But, no, as far as I know,they weren’t causing any problems.

        I do think, it seems like it was their idea to move…so they must figure it’s the best thing for them?

        • Anonymous

          I guess I don’t have a dog in this fight, but if I were to make a statement like that about a mosque, there would be dozens of posters labeling me as a hater.  

          • Anonymous

            I would think so.  Thing is, you’d still have every right to feel that way, or say that you feel that way.  I know I would defend your right to say it.  Question is…would others?  Or would they think that just because you’re opinion doesn’t conform to their ideal, that you don’t have the right to express your opinion?  

          • I would not label you as a hater. I dislike all religions and yes, us atheist even go after Muslims but for some reason the Christian right doesn’t think we ever do. Seems the Christian right has never heard of Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens.

          • heard of both of them…..MORONS!!!!!!

          • Anonymous

            does your god approve of you judging others like that?  I happen to be facebook friends with a two TRC members and they are very judgmental of others, especially people that don’t seem to be evangelical christian

          • Guest

            facebook…another happy ending

          • poormaniac

            An ideal for every Christian is to leave being judgemental at home and to go out in love. That is a tough assignment for anybody.  Even a fisherman knows you can’t clean a fish until it’s caught !

          • Anonymous

            Mmmmm, I know of a few churhes that use that phrase, very true. 

          • Anonymous

            the old bait & switch

          • Anonymous

            love is not tough if u love Jesus,  and the rock may catch some fish, problem is they dont want them cleaned.

          • As a Christian I am more than willing to admit that I am not perfect by any means, and I know that I can be judgmental at times, despite my best intentions to not be.  I would hope that in the long run though, the good that I do and the people I help and serve, will far out-weigh the people that are hurt by my “human-ness”.  

            God definitely does not “approve” of Christians being judgmental of hypocritical, but that does not mean that it does not still happen…. Unfortunately, I think some times people (society, non-Christians, etc…) see Christians “talking the talk” and not “walking the walk” that you expect or assume we are to walk.  If, at any point, my actions have gotten in the way of some one else’s walk, that is for me to try to make amends.

          • Anonymous

            i hope they dont teach you your good will outweigh anything… thats ” works” faith dear, and it wont work

          • Give me a little more credit than that pointbe2! :)  

            John 14:6 – And Jesus said unto them, I am the way the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.

            Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

            Romans 8:14- For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

            But, also let’s not forget….

            James 2:14-19 – What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone clains to have faith but has no deeds?  Can such faith save them?  Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.  If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?  In the same way, fait by itself, ifit is not accompanied by action, is dead.  But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”  Show me your faith without deeds and I will show you my faith by my deeds.  You believe that there is one God.  Good!  Even the deamons believe that – and shudder.

            Flashback to New Testament class freshman year in college there!   

            I am well aware that my good will alone does not get me into heaven.  But, I am also aware that no one is an island in and among themselves and that, as Christians, we are called to go out into this world and help those that are in need.

          • Anonymous

            Good thing that “the Jesus” still loves you….. 

          • Anonymous

            they are judgemental. If U leave that church, you will be demonized and hear ” we cant be friends if u dont come here anymore”  the church is a cult

          • Anonymous

            Have you heard of CS Lewis or Albert Einstein, just to ask about a couple?

          • Anonymous

             They have heard of them as well as Dawkins and they will do ANYTHING to silence those voices.Look for UP w/Chris Hayes on MSNBC- fascinating 2 hour discussion of atheism on Sunday,available on his website.And your point on taxes is perfect.That would balance the budget IMMEDIATELY and then some.

          • Anonymous

            Interesting that you dislike all religions.  Why not be content to simply not join and allow others their own beliefs?  No one really cares what you believe.  That is the beauty of America as founded.  Freedom of religion which includes the freedom to choose what to believe.

            You have joined the folks who want to change everyone to their beliefs.  Sounds like your ‘atheism’ is a religion in itself.

          • I am agnostic. I do not hate religion. I understand that some religious groups Hate us. I think religion can be helpful to some people and hurtful to others. Get away from the HATE  . Resent the fact they treat some people poorly. It take all people to make a society work. You are a better person than that. I do not by into the bible . Can I prove thier is no god? No I can not . Religious people just sometimes do not gt it. When push come to shove the people who beat to a different drum are really the good people.  Atheist are the minority. I can not stand by that group because My life would be far more difficult. Sorry its they way it is. I would prefer to be atheist than a bible nut.  More to the center a bit and you will further the cause more. Other wise they will polarize against you. It takes all kinds to make society work .

          • Out of curiosity – what do you consider a “bible nut”?  Is it anyone that professes faith in God or faith in Christ?  Or is it what some call a “bible thumper” – aka, the Christian that will walk up to do you and do the not so literal “Sinner be healed!” as they whack you over the head with their bible?  

            I am one that believes in God, and would rather live with Him than without Him… I am not going to walk up to you and “whack you over the head” with my bible or my beliefs, but I am more than happy to have a discussion with you as long as it is done respectfully and not filled with hatefulness and bitterness.  Some of the posts that I have read I have to think to myself “What has happened to this person to get them to this point in their life, and to this point in their hatred?”

          • I may not have stated it the right way.  I do not dislike religious people as a whole. I must say I am sorry for that.  I look at things much different than most. When the Bob Carlson story came out. It was stated in front of me he was the last person I would suspect. Hmmm would they thought I would have been more likely because my agnostic position? I question authority so I can be abrasive. Most people that get to know me know that and accept that about me. Some will dislike me because of it. Religion Is good for some people . it can also lead other down a slippery slope . Like Jones town. I am not saying thier is not a God . I do not know. I have found the people who preach about god seem to be less truth worthy than people that Are atheist agnostic or Keep it to themselves.  In the time the bible was written that was probably a great moral code. Some of it still is. Times have changed . Back in those days you were suppose to be a good slave. Loo at all the bad things that have been done in the name of religion. People can misuse something that has a great intent. Just because the majority of people think something is right . And I disagree with it makes me an outcast sometimes. Piece But please do not try to use religion to justify an opinion. Think of all the times genocide was justified by religion.  A person can be of high moral values and not be religious . Ok so I may not get into heaven. If god lets pedophiles and ax murders because they were forgiven and not me I guess I do not want to go. 
             

        • Guest

          You will be meeting …..GOD….one way or another

          • Anonymous

            I can’t even believe you people would choose to argue with a self proclaimed “atheist”.  Bah….Talk about a messed up belief system.

          • Anonymous

            Hey, I hope you’re right.  At least (assuming you are right) when I get there, I can look him or her in the face and know I lived my convictions, that I lived a good life, that I was true to what I believed.  That I stood up for others, not because I wanted the promise of eternal life, but because it was the right thing to do.  Not because I was being promised some reward in the hereafter, but because it was the best way to help someone now, who needed help.  I can look myself in the mirror every day and know I do right by what I believe.

            I’ve seen many “godly” men who can’t lay claim to that… Rev. Bob Carlson comes to mind.  Here’s a man I’ve known for 20+ years, and even though I didn’t believe what he believed, we could talk, and he would listen.  But when it came right down to it, even he didn’t believe what he said.  Not really.  Because if he did, he wouldn’t have made some of those decisions he made.

            I hold my head high.  If you’re right, well, I hope you are.  But I’m not going to live my life based on the promise of something better later.  I’m going to be better NOW, do better NOW, help someone NOW…and let the chips fall where they may.

        • Anonymous

          They had grown in membership and needed more space.  They wanted to use adjacent space and stay where they were.  Not being allowed to expand, they had to look for a place that would accommodate them all.  

          • Anonymous

            Keep handing over that “collection” money, folks…. Someone has to pay for the pastor’s Hollywood Casino bankroll….. 

          • Anonymous

            Yes, I know that.  Because I read the article.  :-)

    • Anonymous

      Cold…

      Im not a member of that church, but i certainly wish no ill on them

      • Anonymous

        Who says I’m wishing ill of them?  They made the choice to move.  There was no changes to their status, they could stay, as-is.  No reported problems, no reports of financial issues, no reports of any issues requiring action.  They just chose to move when code wouldn’t allow them to expand.  It’s entirely their choice.  Good for them, because it seems like it’s what they determined to be in their best interests.

        So how is it cold, that they are lookin’ out for their own interests? 

        • Anonymous

          Wehter athiest or not, you do not believe the City of Brewer should follow Federal Law. They chose to move because there is not enough room there.

          • Anonymous

            attendance is never full there, it was a spin only to blame brewer, and get publicity, instead of admitting a man established this church, not God.  What God establishes, man can not destroy.  The pastor AND his salaried FAMILY of pastors running that church have new visions from Christ all the time about the next church plant or new vision from god .  Its about tithes, more locations, more money.  He and his wife who “sacrifices” to be a stay at home mom, live on a 120 acre $430K estate (still growing too), full health insurance for over 8 paid employees,  horses to poop out your money, music lessons, dental care, family trips & vacations, nice vehicles, $5ooo a year in property taxs on his home… all paid for with tithes.   Does the church REALLY do for the community… no , many have left because ministries to help the community are not supported.  This pastor has stated , he is not concerned with those that have welfare, but Haiti is where they want to help… watch his sermons… they are about loving HIS church, HIS vision, and MANY unbiblical sermons on tithing … another Vineyard church , a scam, and a church full of “live and let live ” mentality … much sin abounds in this cozy church

          • Anonymous

            That could be, still what does the law say about it. As to his church, he has to account for it before God. They consider witchcraft a religion also.

        • Anonymous

          They would be kicked out eventually out of plaza regardless. your cold and cruel

        • I am a member of trc. I am a bangor member. We need a place where everybody can go. we have over 800 members every week, and a lot of kids. We were going to move everyone to brewer becouse we didn’t have enough space in bangor. We are now just gunna build a bigger building in Bangor so everyone including the kids have room in our church.

          • Anonymous

            4 years ago, ” God’s vision” for them was a new church in bangor ( remember the building fund money collected then), then the vision changed for God I guess and brewer was the new vision from God… seems their just going back to the old discarded vision from 4 years ago, but without the money solicited then for the new building… how many suckers will be giving more money for a building fund, better get it in writing or your money may mean a new vision to go to another town

  • Putting aside the Federal Religious freedom law that likely was violated here by the city, Brewer is losing out because this retail space next to a dive bar, small grocery store and now abandoned elementary school in North Brewer will likely remain empty… as opposed to having an upstart Christian Church of hundreds of families breathing life into, and bringing business to, this neighborhood.

    Here’s info on the Federal law referenced by the article: http://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topics/religiousdiscrimination/ff_landuse.php

    EDIT- Also reading some of the comments below there seems to be some confusion of the church’s position on this issue. Here is an AUDIO link to last week’s message where the Bangor pastor discusses the issue in full in just the first 3 minutes: http://bit.ly/H8LfnQ
    Thanks.

    • So you think Brewer is lacking in churches?

      • Anonymous

         aaronprill never said that Brewer is lacking in churches. What was said is that that specific part of town will no longer have all of the people who attend THIS church driving past the businesses that are out that way, that may suffer due to the traffic that will now be going to Bangor.

        • For some reason I don’t see that happening.

          • Anonymous

             It may not, who knows. It is a possibility though. There is always a possibility of other establishments being affected when one closes, or moves to another city.

      • Yes, in that particular neighborhood.

        • If I wanted to find a church in Brewer I can with ease.

          • Anonymous

            Right, because they are all the same. C’MOn.
             
            I think the story validates the fact that people still believe in God and the faith in Him is still growing. This is great to hear. I am sure God has a journey for this church that only he can see. God Bless TRC.

          • And what sort of journey does your god have for all the starving children in Africa? Faith won’t feed them or keep them from dying.

          • evilbrat420

            Why worry about Children in Africa when we have children here in the US going without Food, Meds and Shelter lets start caring for our own

          • Anonymous

            If you sign up for Save The Children or any of the other large orgs. you can send your money to a child in the US-usually Appalachia.

          • Anonymous

            Thats a big part of the trouble with this country, People like kevin worry to much about the children in other countries and forget about the ones here in our own country.

          • Ok, so let me rephrase my question.

            What sort of journey does your god have for all the starving children in America? Faith won’t feed them or keep them from dying.

          • Anonymous

            I actually know some people that attend this church and they have families. Many of these adults that attend were on the bubble when it came to very serious choices in their lives. This church was a “rock” to many of those that could have gone down the very wrong path bringing their children and families with them. This church, like so many, was there for them reassuring them that the good decisions they were making were right and their was plenty of support confirming that. Many children are positively impacted by this church, if they expand, and they will, more children can and will be helped by better parenting. I too feel for the “children in Africa” as do many and God has a plan for them, he has a plan for all of us, only those that believe in HIm will know what that plan is someday. I look forward to that day. God Bless. 

          • Anonymous

            Not sure what “on the bubble” means, but I’ll say this:  without exception, these fundamental/evangelical christian churches PREY on people at their most vulnerable time in life.
            They “welcome” them into the fold as brothers, sisters, etc., just like one big happy family.
            And then they start their REAL work of brainwashing, which ususally includes separating them from others who don’t share their beliefs. 

            The next thing you know, they hate anyone who is not like them,  anyone not in their church, anyone “not saved.”  They excuse their selfishness by saying, “We don’t worry about _____ (fill in the blank w/”Methodists,” “Gay people,” “starving Africans,” etc. etc.) because God has a plan for them.” 
            Their plan is simply to funnel all the money into one place…their “rock” or their “Lighthouse” church.

            Now tell me where “christian” fits into any  of the above scenarios.

          • Anonymous

            Your scenario is flawed when you state “without exception”. I am sure there are many shady preachers out there but there are also many unbelievable servants of God that are there for their congregation, community and strangers. I can however see your scenario playing out. I can also hear your frustration with it. It sounds like you have been there on the recieving end. I will take a shot at their side from their view.

            Many of the people that are looking for answers,the ones that feel a void in their life, the ones that look into the eyes of their newborn and believe there must be a higher power becasue there is no way something that precious came from an ape seek out a relationship with Christ. Once they discover Him and start understanding the word of God they become uplifted, many refer to this as newborn or born again. When they become newborn or born again they have an opportunity to start a new life, with new friends, making new decisions that will follow them into heaven. That is the gift from Christ and the reason He sent his son to die on the cross for all of us, not some, all. Clearly, this is the best gift they have ever received and they want to share it with their friends, family, and loved ones. They then come to their past acquaintences so excited with great enthusiasm that their old friends look at them like they are nuts when they try to share the gift they have recieved. Then what usually happens is the born again coems back again and again but they get the message that their old friend has no interest in learning more about the sacred gift they have received. This creates a distance. The born again has new friends that share the same belief and I assure you they have prayed for your salvation. The intention of the born again is for all the right reasons it is just that their excitement and enthusiasm is too much for the non believer. That truly is an obstacle that Christians try to overcome everyday. The born again that used to be your friend still is,they still love you, they still pray for you, probably more than ever. They know they are pushing you away and that is the last thing they want to do. They want you to receive the great gift they have received. They are no better than you, no worse, and they know that. The only difference is that when they die they are going to go to heaven and no believers will go to hell. Those are the clear terms God has given us and He has left us to decide.

            God loves you.

          •  “God loves you”

            So does my dog, but I am not going to ask him about life choices. If either your god or my dog start telling me how to live my life, I just hope that LePage hasn’t closed Dorothea Dix,
            cause I’ll need a bed there.

          • Anonymous

            No one tells you how to live, if you do not believe in God’s word.

          • Anonymous

            Do you know how much of that money goes back into the community to help people who do not go to church’s rent, or other bills.   We have no problem with expanding government and that they need money to run.  The main reason why a church needs money is simple…to pay rent, to pay a few people to run it and to help those in need.  I guess that is a horrible thing!

          •  Do you know how much of it goes to fund PAC’s to prevent civil rights for gays? How much of it goes to fund the, “If you all convert we will build you a well” 3rd world missionary work? Every Don in New York, Chicago, Las Vegas, etc. gives to the church and community, it doesn’t forgive the ills that he and his Mafia goombas commit. These churches are no different, They give to the community publicly and fund their bigoted missions privately.

          • Anonymous

             do you know how much of that money goes to PAC’s…give me your statistic, give me your inside scoop….If most of the money is going there, then I would like to know mysefl…However this is not the case.  I would have to say the percentage of churches that give to a PAC has to be in the low single digits.  I have served on two boards of churches personally, and never did this ever get discussed.  It is always sad how a few bad apples can really blur the vision of people.  I am not saying all the churches are perfect, but this isnt the rule…

          •  On average, 15% goes to sources outside the church the tithe moneys were collected in. These moneys go to “Associations” of churches, which in turn are funneled to missionary sponsorships (i.e. IF you convert, THEN we will build you a well), as well as funding political campaigns. So even if your church does not directly fund a candidate or PAC, they do via their associations.

          • Anonymous

             1. can you give me links to your sources.
            2. it is not true that it is a stipulation that conversion=well building.  You may be correct in one of the intentions of missions is to convert which is true.  But it actually takes the opposite model…help them physically, so then you can help them spiritually is the typical model.
            3. I would like to know the percentage of “Association” are PAC and the percentage of churches that do so….I know for fact the past to churches I have attended and have been part of do not. so that is why I would like to have the links to the data so I can evaluate the sources

          • While you may very well be correct that some churches result in members like you describe, The Rock does not fit your narrow view… Come by one of the weekend services in Bangor sometime and judge for yourself, instead of stereotyping from afar… Please, seriously, stop by.

          • Guest

            In fairness, I have stopped by, with my wife and our 4 children last year.  To watch no one pay us any attention, not even a welcome, to be recruited to spend time separately with this group and that rather than together as a family praising God, to see a guy and his girlfriend (wife?) hanging all over each other at the “sound booth” or whatever it is called in the church.  

            We did not feel welcomed into the church, but  it is absolutely possible that it was just one service among many and that most services are more welcoming, but it was the one that I attended.  I was told by someone that I knew who regularly attended that had we come to the first, instead of the last service, that the message is so much clearer and full of excitement, which I understand would probably be true.  But by the end of the day it seemed like they were just reading off the checklist of things they had to “get in”.  That’s not how I see worship.

          • Sorry you had a bad experience… Just curious- was this at Bangor or Brewer? I regret you were not welcomed as there should always greeters to welcome you, and no one should force a family to drop off their children in children’s ministry instead of worshiping together. Again, my apologies.

          • Guest

            As I said, I’m sure that not all services are like the one we attended, but this was at the Bangor location.  I’m sure that the issue of having to have 3 services on Sundays is going to be addressed with a larger location, which may take care of some of the other poor parts of our experience.  

          • Anonymous

            Talk about brainwashing – and liberal distortion of words – this is the usual liberal response to a disagreement.  A “disagreement” with another theology or lifestyle is not hate.  If we take your definintion of hate – then your distortion of what most churches are all about is very hateful and completely inaccurate.  You and I have a disagreement here – does that mean you HATE me?  I assure you I do not hate you because we disagree.  And if you do believe in real prayer, lets both agree not to PREY on each other but to PRAY for each other and we will both come out winners!

          • Anonymous

            AMEN!!!!

          • Anonymous

            I would think that a “true Christian” would care about all children….

            Does your god discriminate? 

          • Sorry, I forgot. Your god only blesses the USA.

          • Anonymous

            We have missionaries from our church that go to Africa to feed children, build homes, etc. What have you done to feed starving children in Africa?

          • Superuser23

            It appears this problem or obstacle (however one sees it) as a journey that God has for this Church. Myself seeing that comment folks shrug it off as a journey, pack up and move on. The question becomes that same God who created all of us, why are their kids starving in Africa and have done so for years now? Is their Journey to starve and rely on other people year after year?  People are building their homes and delivering food but not teaching them how to do it themselves like the rest of us?
            What is the Journey for starving African families?

          • Anonymous

            Nothing. I have enough to do trying to keep my own children fed and clothed.

          • I donate when I can but that is all I do. I don’t try to convert anyone into becoming a Christian which is the goal of missionaries.

            http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/03/11/catholic-school-atheist-raises-over-11000-responsible-charity/

          • Anonymous

            Why don’t you go over there and take care of them?   It’s time we started taking care of the U.S. problems and stop worrying about the rest of the world

          • Anonymous

            Yes, Kevin, join the very christian “me first” crowd.  They are perfect examples of why I boycott organized religion, although my faith will always be intact.

          • And you missed the point.

          • So did you.  True missionaries don’t convert by proselytizing, they convert through example.  People *follow* in their footsteps.  You really don’t have to be cynical about everyone in the world.  Some people are simple, and honest.  Knocking them might make you feel good though, I see.

    • Anonymous

      Federal Religious freedom law? What is this???

    • Guest

      Taking the high road, I see. Both parties are at fault.

      In what state did you pass the bar again?

    • Anonymous

       A city is permitted to zone according to the needs of a community.  This church has sought to exceed the permissible use of the property and asked for a waiver.  That is entirely at the discretion of the council.  They have exercised their constitutionally derived power to decide the zoning law should not be waved.  This was no small variance they were requesting.

      Sorry neighbor,  we are a nation of laws.  Just because you claim to be connected to a God thing does not give you additional rights.  The very same law could prevent a mega-strip club some day as well. 

      Let the city go about its lawful duty of enforcing the codes.

      • Anonymous

        And consequently there will be another empty “storefront” in Brewer

        • Anonymous

          Wait for a “store” to occupy it…..

          • Anonymous

            Your willingness to obstruct an agreement by a renter and tennant for petty reasons is an example of why this country is losing its freedom.

          • Anonymous

            I didn’t write the ordinance, SEA…..

            What freedoms have you lost that you would like to talk about? 

          • Anonymous

            I wonder if you would have felt the same way if Diamonds Gentleman’s Club wanted to relocate/expand there…… 

            Live and let live.

            Peace be with you.

          • Anonymous

            Not gonna happen, that plaza is more or less defunct, or at least dying.  part of it is the design, part is the location.

          • Anonymous

            Part of it is regulation from the owners which may come from other regulations.

          • Anonymous

            Could be a really long wait…

        • Anonymous

          BINGO!!!! Chris gets the prize. It is a STOREFRONT not a churchfront.

      • @Maine_gun_guy:disqus  and @TheRexican:disqus – you both have valid points. But since you asked, the federal law that would have trumped local ordinances here- had The Rock chose to make an issue on it- is the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA).

        Heres a link to more info on it: http://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topics/religiousdiscrimination/ff_landuse.php

        Thanks for weighing in with productive arguments, but since The Rock was already at this location (allowed by Brewer since 2009), and the landlord had empty space that HE wanted The Rock to fill for him, and HE (the landlord) was already paying full property taxes on this property, it really is the city that loses out here. The city basically said The Rock was already in violation of an ordinance- the same ordinance that was on the books in 2009. The city may be saying The Rock was allowed to stay at it’s current size, possibly because it overlooked the ordinance in 2009, but it was most likely doing so just to save face. You may or may not like the Christian faith, but others do and they have the religious freedom in this country to choose to gather and worship where they please, as outlined by the RLUIPA- if other non-Christian “gathering” places are also at the same location (as is the case here with the neighboring pub/diner)… 

        But it’s all good. If it’s not in God’s plan for The Rock to be in Brewer, then so be it. One last thing for everyone slamming The Rock in these comments. I encourage you to come to one of the weekend services in Bangor and see it for yourself, instead of passing judgment from afar.

        • Anonymous

          I have attended hundreds of evangelical services. It would be wasted on me. I have both feet planted in a modern world with cause and effect.

          I have seen too many walk away from such gatherings brainwashed and unable to think for themselves anymore. Had the Christians truly embraced live and let live, I might feel differently. As I see around me every day, the church and its adherents are the willing pawns of the oppressors in our society and they would have no power if it weren’t for your flocks giving them the power.

          Bad intentioned politicians use the church to make their ugly agenda reality. I want no part in that, ever.

          • Anonymous

            Could it be you  are brainwashed in the opposite manner? Christians can not embrace live & let live because it is contrary to His Word. We are to love everyone, live by example. No one on earth is perfect.

        • Anonymous

          Two more things, if we the people are to mutually pledge to each other our sacred honor and we all have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, how can the federal law legally treat churches different than businesses? Though congress shall make no law respecting AN establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exorcise thereof.”

          It sounds like an argument from another city council opposing something that contradicted what else what going on in town. Through the grapevine, a co worker who lived in a city where a councilor was involved in an organization that would be biased, and the bias came through in the council ruling or vote……….

          Put simply, it sounds like someone or someones in council have a bias against the church or churches for whatever reason, a conflict of interest, if the owner of the plaza is good to go on any expansions.

          There should be a separation of duties.

          Send it to the people…….

          Good luck old friend. ;)

        • Anonymous

          That is a protection for the space not the religion itself. 

          Next it does not matter how long it was there if it violates the local ordnance. If you break the law oyu can be jailed for it many years after. If you fail to file taxes on your first year of working but file every year after when you hit 90 you may get a letter and loose all you own. It was no legal for them to be there in the first place.

          I am a jew and a busniess owner please do not try to tell me about discrimination. 

          • Not sure what you are saying, but the Federal Act clearly states the following:

            ***
            (b) Discrimination and exclusion

            (1) Equal terms:
            No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation in a manner that treats a religious assembly or institution on less than equal terms with a nonreligious assembly or institution.

            (source: http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/housing_rluipa2.php )
            ***  

            In this case, quoting directly from the article, Brewer’s code enforcement officer- http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.breadmore says: “A church is not allowed in that zone: ‘convenience business,’” …

            This is clearly a government-imposed ordinance that treats a religious assembly or institution in less than equal terms because at least 2 non-religious “assemblies” are allowed (the neighboring pub/diner and the chem-free club) in this same retail space. 

            How can it be any less clear? 

            I would hope that since you are part of an ethnicity that has been discriminated against in the past, you of all people would understand and have compassion on this issue.

          • Anonymous

            The law does not say that religious use trumps all local regulations. The area is ZONED for use A the people that rented the space where violation the law for being there to begin with. IT has NOTHING to do with trying to squash a religion and everything to do with ZONING..

            A church and a BUSNIESS that allows it it premises to be used for a religious meeting are two very different things. That are very easy to see the difference in. The zoning for that strip is BUSINESS not churches. One of the first tenants of almost every religion ois that you should follows the laws of the land! These folks did not. You break the rules you pay the price.

            The fact that my people have been oppressed more then any other through the years is why I can see the difference.

          • We are going to have to just respectfully disagree on this situation… 
            If do you want to read in more detail my opinion on this issue, go here: 
            http://rightmaine.com/2012/03/city-ordinance-violates-religious-freedom/

            Regardless, the Department of Justice is invovled, so we will all wait and see what they decide.

          • Anonymous

            This is one of the problems we have. There are RULES. You break the rules you pay the price.  It does not (and should not) who you are or anything about you just the rules.

            It is very well established that states and towns have the right to create zoning laws.

            IHMO this place shoudl be fined for the time they where breaking the ordnance. If a person had opened a porn shop there and three years later someone realized there was a rule  prohibiting it being there would this be ok to?

            Disagree all you want but they broke the rules. This is a fact. They got caught fact two. Now they will pay the price fact three.

          • Are you simply choosing to ignore the Federal Statute specifically protecting religious institutions- not porn shops- from discriminatory ordinances in your argument?

      • gaily

        A city seems to do what they want to do as seen last summer and into early winter.  A PERMIT is required for everything and everyone – except for the group that refused to get one, didn’t get one, and still stayed where they were with NO PERMIT!  It depends who or what you are. 

        • Anonymous

          Yes – it seems like the liberals are willing to OBSTRUCT free enterprise WITHOUT a permit and use the permitting process to OBSTRUCT free enterprise.   A perfect example of the contradictions of their ideology.

        • Anonymous

          As long as no one requests to tear it down and no one wants to do that, all you or they get is a fine for no permit.

      • Anonymous

        And when zoning laws are used to this extreme- then we lose our freedom.  This is not about a church or a city – it could happen in many cities with any other enterprise.  We have gone too far beyond basic zoning and are at the point of zoning dictatorships and have a structure where zoning ordanances can and are corrupltly used for preferences.

        • Anonymous

          What the what???? Lose of freedom because a freakin church can’t expand in a congested neighborhood? This tells of dictatorships? Have you lost your mind, neighbor? Get help.

          This is not an extreme use of zoning laws. They asked for a waiver and were refused. They intended on making a monstrous addition which would impact traffic and services in the area. This may not concern you but it is the council that has to make sure growth of any kind is managed so that life goes on for the others. Wow, kinda hyperbolic dude.

          • I didn’t realize you have thought this whole time there was going to be a “monstrous addition”… LOL- talk about misinformation…

            The church had planned to expand WITHIN (inside) the mall area in a currently unoccupied portion of it- with the permission of, and in coordination with, the landlord. As the landlord mentioned in the article, The Rock was going to expand into 14,000 square feet of already empty space- just a portion of the 60,000 sq/feet he has available. A landlord who by the way, as has been said before, already pays property taxes on the entire retail space… regardless of whether the church leases it, or some other establishment. So absolutely NO tax revenue would have been lost to the city.

            The fact is there is NO concern of “growth” by the council, as this area is in decline (and will be more so now that the church will be gone). Furthermore, this issue – to my knowledge – did not even go before the full Brewer council as you claim, but rather was decided solely by the Brewer code enforcement officer- http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.breadmore… a decision likely in violation of the Federal law I’ve linked to before.

            So, plain and simply- its not a growth issue nor a tax issue, but rather a decision made that uses an illegal land use ordinance to justify the unfair discrimination of a Christian church. Sad, but true.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry you were confused but it is a monstrous addition to their space.

            Oh you poor Christian martyr.

          • Guest

          • I will refrain from further comment here and simply direct you to my online opinion article that significantly expands on this issue:
            http://rightmaine.com/2012/03/city-ordinance-violates-religious-freedom/

            As far as why I linked to his facebook- he’s a public official, there’s no reason why not. News articles include pictures of people involved in a story all the time. Since none was included for Breadmore- the guy solely responsible for this decision (the Brewer City Council was not involved despite what others have said)- I linked to the only picture publicly available.

    • Anonymous

      That grocery store is awesome. Same good prices and quality as the big Hannaford, but easy, close parking and never any long waits at the checkout. It’s not second rate.

    • Guest

      Our Grocery Store in North Brewer is small, but certainly not second-rate in any way. No, it doesn’t have a pharmacy or a million items that you can’t eat. However, the employees are helpful and friendly unlike some larger stores. They carry Hannaford prodcuts, just not as many. Older folks love it as they can actually walk around it without getting run over or overly tired. I agree the folks attending Church spent some money in our city, but the elementary school being empty probably is not devastaing to our local economy.

      • Sorry about the “second-rate” grocery store comment. I did not mean it as a slam, but rather in comparison to the Hannaford across town.  I was simply referring to its size, so “second-tier” may have been a more proper description. Regardless, I have edited my original comment to say “small grocery store” instead.

        • Guest

          You are very gracious

        • Anonymous

          It takes a strong person to admit when he/she is wrong. I’m sorry goes a long way in my life. Lord knows I have certainly said it enough. I am thinking about getting one of those handheld recorders that just has “I’m sorry” programmed into it so I can just hit the button. I am starting to lose my voice.

        • Anonymous

          Some people might prefer to walk to a local grocer than drive across town.. :)

    • Anonymous

      Their also comes a burden with churches. They do not pay taxes; however, in this sense I agree with you that they pay rent to the building if they do, they bring people to the area, that could put more money into the community.

      It also sounds like they are not being treated like a business as a business might have the right to expand, but they shouldn’t be treated like a business. I also talked to another business owner in a Brewer plaza who could not expand the way they wanted to expand either, so it may be less about religious reasons or concerns and more about how the plaza operates and why it is mostly vacant most of the time instead of bustling with life.

      That may also be because of regulations that are higher up in the chain. While I agree with regulations to protect, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines and the mutual respect, I think we have and are building regulations over regulations getting further from the original doctrine, becoming exceeding sinful.

      No wonder the Roman empire fell…..

      Maybe those abandoned elementary schools could become patches of woods in a city?

    • Anonymous

      Unless you know the “facts” about what transpired in its entirety, you should all keep your comments to yourself.

  • When they start paying taxes I say let them expand just as any other taxpaying business would have to do.

    • Anonymous

      Though I wonder if the restaraunts in the area, gas stations would think that. Maybe if he can’t fill the building maybe the city of Brewer will have to take it.

    • Does Dana Cassidy receive a tax reduction for renting to an exempt organization?

    • Churches like The Rock’s whole mission is to serve and benefit the local community as much or more than taxes ever can… Not to mention the sales taxes the attendees would have spent nearby or the increased home sales that families would have purchased over the next many years.

      • Well I would rather have the billions in taxes that churches do not currently have to pay.

        • Anonymous

          The only way any of that money will be taxed is when the abused children cash their checks from the church.THEN it’s taxed.Look of.Sen Grassley’s attempt in 2007 to question Learjets,etc. under the tax exemption.The big money bullies made sure that went nowhere.

          • gaily

            You know as well as I do that Augusta was mess way before LePage even ran for Governor!
            Nuff said!

          • Anonymous

            What does that wrong statement have to do in any way with this issue?

      • Anonymous

        lololol

      • Anonymous

         That is only your opinion.  I think a majority of churches have been perverted into a political campaigning device whose mission is to fleece the people into believing in that which there is no evidence at the expense of that which is provable.  That is my opinion.  The law allows us to each hold our own opinions on these issues but not to allow either of us special dispensations.

        The zoning laws exist for numerous reasons.  There are traffic concerns, parking, law enforcement, fire protection and many other things that impact zoning.  The council is seated to determine when variances are granted.  They did this and decided not to allow the church to evade the laws controlling use.  That is their job.  If you don’t like it, vote for another council.

        • Anonymous

          Traffic concerns stopped a church from being built years ago on outer Wilson Street – but it seems there were no traffic concerns when that area was filled with EMMC, Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc!

      • Anonymous

        You meant to say the, ” the increased property taxes on homes in that area….”.

        When they decide to pay taxes like every other business, I’m willing to bet that the city council will gladly approve their expansion….  

      • Anonymous

        serve community…how ??  Other than the 4 yearly events they participate in by collecting EXTRA money from MEMBERS , to get in the news over,   what community care do they actually do?? many buy homes, spend money at shops, how can you give credit to a church for that.  Go ask the pizza shop next door how many ate there after a sunday service, not many I bet.  Do you EVER see a PASTOR at ANY event not covered by publicity, I never saw them help with anything in 5 years, its up to the members to organize anything they feel compelled to do for the community, and they are the ones serving others.  

        • Wow, look up “Chip on shoulder” in the dictionary and your picture would be there. I hope you find peace in your life- good luck.

          • Anonymous

            TRC way… it must be a chip…LOL… no, I just stand for truth of the gospel, and its not preached there, and since leaving I have found many others who left for the same reasons… thats why all the posts are more negative… we should be warning and hating false gospel messages, they are evil…to tolerate in silence and not speak up, puts you with the enemy…some will be warned and take heed… good..

    • Anonymous

       I believe that Dana Cassidy pays property tax for the entire City Center building as he is the owner.  I also believe that there is no exemption for the Church on the books for property tax.  As for other taxes, do you support credit unions?  They don’t pay taxes.

      • Guest

        Credit unions do pay taxes, including property, local and employer taxes. However, because credit unions are not-for-profit—returning all profits to members (customers) in great rates and low fees—they’re exempt from federal income tax.

        • Anonymous

          And why are they exempt from income tax?  They operate exactly like commercial banks and considering the amount they are saving in income tax (15-35% of taxable income), I would expect their “great rates” would beat those offered by for-profit banks.  The last time I checked, that was not the case.  Overall, I’d venture if credit unions paid income tax, my income tax contribution could be reduced to a greater degree than any savings they offer on savings and loan rates.

          • Anonymous

            How can credit unions pay income tax on non profit?   Half of our Fortune 500 companies pay no income  tax because their accountants can adjust their income to 0. 

          • Anonymous

            “non-profit” is a classification.  Why are credit unions allowed to be non-profit organizations when they operate exactly like commercial (for-profit) banks?  Although the original mission of credit unions properly allowed the non-profit designation, is that still valid?  Credit unions pay no income tax because their accountants keep their books in a manner which falls within the legal parameters of non-profit operation, just as Fortune 500 companies’ accountants manage their business in a manner which falls within the legal parameters of a for-profit operation.  No taxpayer, individual or corporate, should be vilified for saving themselves tax dollars.  I doubt any poster on this site doesn’t take every deduction, exemption, credit, etc. allowed in order to ensure they pay the least amount of tax possible.  It’s the tax code that allows corporations to pay zero tax.  If you want to rage against something, rage against the government that writes the laws.  The corporations are not at fault here.

          • Anonymous

            And look at the Statistical Abstract that shows where the Federal Government receives its money – the Federal Government has received hundreds of billions of dollars come from the “Corporate” income tax.  So not all corporations are paying zero.  More anti-free enterprise propaganda here.

          • Anonymous

             So true.  I cannot for the life of me understand why a faction of people are on such a high horse about corporations not paying income tax.  Or perhaps, it’s “not enough” tax.  It’s free enterprise that brought this country from a fledgling nation to super power status.  Not sure how people have obscured that bit of history and become obsessed with accountants doing their jobs.

          • Guest

            Well, you’re the one who postulated that “they pay no taxes.” You still haven’t responded to that untruth.

          • Anonymous

             I believe I did respond regarding credit unions when I stated they do not pay income taxes.  And my 12:23pm comment related to corporations, not non-profits.  My apologies if you were unable to make that connection.

          • Guest

            Ok, you began this in reference to property taxes, and stated “As for other taxes, do you support credit unions?  They don’t pay taxes.”, prompting my initial response that they do indeed pay property taxes, along with other taxes. You then focused on federal income tax, which I referred to in none of my posts. My apologies if you were unable to make that connection concerning other taxes. Call it a draw? Shake on it?  ;> )

          • Anonymous

            ” It’s the tax code that allows corporations to pay zero tax.  If you want to rage against something, rage against the government that writes the laws. The corporations are not at fault here.”

            Yeah, it’s not like the corporations spend millions of dollars every year lobbying congress to write favorable legislation.  Those corporations are just unassuming benefactors.
            uh huh…..yeah….

          • Anonymous

             I have no issue with the word union.  I do have issues with an organization that operates exactly the same as a for-profit, income tax paying entity and is not required to claim the same taxpayer status and potentially pay income tax.  If the credit unions were in fact paying a significantly higher interest rate or providing loans at significantly lower interest rates or doing something other than what commercial banks do, that would be different.  But they don’t and they aren’t – maybe they did once but no more.

            As for lobbying, again, that is allowed under federal law.  Taxpayers, whether they be individual or corporate, do what they are allowed under the law to mitigate the amount of tax they pay.  So, yes, it is the law, not the entity, that should be called on the carpet.  Do you take advantage of all of the exemptions, deductions and tax credits available to you?  Do you protest when your town or city attempts to raise your property tax?  It’s the same thing except that corporations are able to do it on a larger scale and within the law.  So, yes, this does lie at the feet of the law and the lawmakers.

          • Anonymous

            when I purchase a new vehicle, my dealership checks a number of banks and my credit union rate is the lowest.  They also pay me 4% interest on my checking account balance and refund any ATM fees other banks charge me.    Don’t you realize there is no owner or shareholder that profits from the credit union? They are member owned.  If the credit union is bringing in more money than they spend in operating costs they raise the interest rate they pay out to members, or lower the rates they charge members for consumer loans.

          • Anonymous

            Somehow I bet your partisian beef with credit unions is the fact that it has the word “union” in it.

          • gaily

            And on the other hand, how many citizens don’t “adjust” to accomodate?

          • Anonymous

            credit unions are exempt from income tax because technically they have no profit to be taxed.  Credit unions are member owned, there are no shareholders. all income is used to pay operating costs and higher rates of return.  I know my credit union pays me 4% interest on my personal checking account. I have an account in a for-profit bank that pays less than 1/4th that.

    • Anonymous

      The owner of the property pays taxes.  He rents to the church; it is not church property.  He is a big loser in this, the church is a big loser in this.  

    • Anonymous

      Any when you also say the rest of “non profit” political, charitable and community organizations are to pay taxes, then I most likely will agree with you.  But I hope you are not on a war against religion here.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you ! MOVE ON!

  • Anonymous

    Go spread your brand of hate somewhere else. 

    • Anonymous

      And where do we send you away to to banish your hate?

  • Anonymous

    $100,000 a year in rent, but no taxes to the city. Let them go and be glad of the paying customer that takes their spot.

    • Anonymous

       The problem there, is that most of that building is sitting empty anyway. If nobody is interested in renting what’s currently available, what makes anyone think that the space they are vacating will get snapped up?

      • Anonymous

        Nobody wants to “do business” near a church…. Too many judgmental eyes….. 

    • Are you sure that Dana Cassidy pays no tax on the portion of the building rented to the church?

      • Anonymous

        As a secular land lord – Dana Cassidy does pay property taxes. So if a church is there or not does nothing to affect the tax revenue of the city of Brewer.

      • Guest

        He pays taxes on all the property

    • Anonymous

      What taxes to the city are they not paying that any other renter is paying?  The landlord is not exempt from property taxes because he rents to a church.  They now appear to be building their own building which will be exempt from property tax.

    • Anonymous

      the building owner pays property taxes.

    • Anonymous

      What paying customer would that be?  The church has been and would have continued to pay rent to the property owner, who in turn pays the property tax to the city.  The owner is out a tenant.  The fact that he had the extra space to rent to the church for the expansion suggests there is no ‘paying’ customer available.

  • Anonymous

    An auditorium on Finson and Ohio streets? In neighborhoods and a bad intersection? Too big for that space. Is that corner zoned for that?

  • Anonymous

    BYE – will not miss you one bit
    Take your hate away.
     

    • What is the issue between you and The Rock Church?  There must be one considering it wasn’t enough for you to have one comment referring to their hate.  I would be interested *as I am sure others are as well… If you have something more to say than repeating (with a little different twist) the same sentiment multiple times on the same post.  And if you are thinking, “Really, it is none of your business…”, I will admit, maybe it is not, but by the repeated comments, it appears you are asking (begging) some one, any one, to call you on the comments.  So, please, enlighten us….

  • Anonymous

    lucky they aint muslim brewer wouldnt stand a chance

    • Anonymous

      Good Idea.  Cassidy:   announce a Mosque is moving in, and see if the folks in Brewer change their mind.

  • Anonymous

    ‘Dontcha fergit yer geetars!

  • Anonymous

    Why not buy or sub-lease any of the 350 seat churches in the area that are either done, or dying?  If the trajectory of Christianity has taught us anything over the past 50 years, it’s that churches that rely on physical property are doomed.  The Crystal Cathedral, the Forest Ave Cong Church, Bangor Seminary, St. Anthony’s, St. Mary’s or any of the dozen or so churches in Bangor/Brewer that run at 30% capacity on Sunday’s can tell you that building a physical structure is a bad idea in 2012.  The church is a people, not a place.

    • Anonymous

      There are many that have huge numbers on Sunday. Abundant Life, Charleston Pentacostle, Bangor Baptist, the big one in Orrington (not the one with the rev. pedophile), All Souls and more are at enormous capacity. Those churches all rely on physical property BTW.

      • Guest

        Rev who?????/

      • Anonymous

        Why dont we drop the rev thing , its over with, let him rest in peace.  Your one sick person to bring it back up

  • Anonymous

    So much for the attorney threat—$100K in leased space? Guess everyone loses—sorry Brewer–another empty space :(
    cant believe they wouldnt amend their landuse like they do for everyone else…. guess you didnt fit the profile………..

  • jimbobhol

    I have to ask, not zoned for a church….but there’s a church there since 2009.  Did something change?

    • Anonymous

      No. The city and the church both screwed up.

    • Anonymous

       Read the article.They were grandfathered in but not allowed to expand,thereby changing the building permit/occupancy parameters.

  • Anonymous

    Right, because they are all the same. C’MOn.
     
    I think the story validates the fact that people still believe in God and the faith in Him is still growing. This is great to hear. I am sure God has a journey for this church that only he can see. God Bless TRC.

  • From their website:

    The mission of the Rock Church is turning the people of Maine into wholehearted followers of Jesus Christ.

    The beliefs and values of the Rock Church:

    OUR BELIEFS AS A LOCAL CHURCH

    ABOUT THE BIBLE
    The Bible is God’s word to all mankind. It was written by human
    authors who were inspired by God. It is the supreme source of truth
    without any mixture of error.

    Umm…what about Constantine, Roman Emperor from 306-337? Constantine commissioned and financed a new Bible, which omitted gospels that spoke of Christ’s human traits and embellished those gospels that made Him godlike? The earlier gospels were outlawed, gathered up, and burned.

    Constantine controlled the evolution of the Bible as we know it today. Was he under Divine guidance? I think not. He ordered the Bible be changed to reflect his own beliefs. Yet today’s Bible is revered as the word of God.

    I am against the expansion of any church by proselytizing. True faith comes to everyone eventually without the brainwashing of the masses. By their own admission they are trying to “turn the people of Maine into wholehearted followers of Jesus Christ”. I do not think we need yet another “Abundant Life”, whose first Pastor, Ron Durham was eventually arrested in Georgia for embezzling church funds and obviously an evil man. And he only one of many, most of which continue today, preying on good people, often down and out folks, for their tithing and weekly contributions at services.

    • Anonymous

       Thanks for the update.Many people also think the KJ version has been altered.See”Original Order Bible”

    • Anonymous

      What was Ceasar’s opinon on zoning?

    • Anonymous

      Not to throw any reality in this discussion of believing nothing but Biblical rantings, check out current Scientific American on global warming. God, or Mother Nature, or man himself, is about to unleash on this planet changes we probably don’t want. Read it and learn about reality.
      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=global-warming-close-to-becoming-ir

      • The earth has been here about 5 billion years. When you can give me the average daly temperture for  for that time and I can study it. To see if thier were any other times when things did not heat up or cool down . I think you will find many. We do not know for certain we are not heading into global cooling in the big picture. It cool be heating up for 200 years strait in the middle of a cooling off cycle.  Guess most people do not think abstractly enough.  The word is still out if oil is even  a fossil fuel . The best Guess might be it is. That dose not mean it is. Look was a time when we thought the world was flat . At least the bible preaching bunch did.

    • Anonymous

      You mean the Jews let Constantine rewrite their  Bible?  I think you need to double check that fact.  I’m sure the Holy Scriptures have been preserved by the Jews and has remained the same for thousands of years.  The New Testament has a few different translations but the message is pretty much the same.

      • Anonymous

        It’s all speculation when it comes to ‘the Jesus’……

        There are no more facts in this tale than there were 2000 years ago…. 

    • Anonymous

      Bravo, RH!  There are too many fundamental churches in the area that are nothing but thinly-disguised cults.  In fact, there’s a “Lighthouse” that immediately comes to mind when I think of brainwashing and how they make “praying” into “preying.” This one’s been on my radar for a long time.
      People would be well-advised to stay away from these dishonest outfits.

      • Anonymous

         1000 likes to you!The lives that have been destroyed by fundamentalists are uncountable.Good for you for keeping tabs on these skunks.

  • Anonymous

    I could not enjoy a Sunday breakfast at the diner next to it because they were playing rock music. The restaurant was loosing customers because of the church.

    • Anonymous

      doubt that very highly, the restaraunt was probably losing business because the food is no good and the employees are rude most times

  • Anonymous

     There’s a shock!

  • Guest

    Cassidy told them ,take the whole space or leave………what is cassidy going to do when he finds the money did not go with him !!!!!!!!!

  • Anonymous

    First Maine Military Supply now Rock Church. Brewer is becoming Bar Harbor.

  • Anonymous

    i’m glad to see the church go. its a cult and is brain washing children. i’ve seen more young adults my age go to this church become “born again” and then ruin there lives. they become all Godly and spiritual and leave for Bible college in Massachusetts and then drop out and do nothing with their lives. The one and only time i have attended that church i went with a friend and they were watching knocked up. If a church is promoting sex and smoking weed and cursing like its nobody’s business then i’d like to know what religion they were raised in. more young adults that i’ve seen go there end up pregnant and on drugs and with a false sense of hope because they believe all will be forgiven. that God forgives all sins and they can just keep going out there and doing what they do because they’ll be forgiven.

    • Anonymous

      There is no doubt that many churhes have moved to the left but there are also many churches that have stayed to course. I think you missed the point in the story. They aren’t going anywhere, they are actually growing, which is why they have asked for more space, a lot more space. I don”t know the message they preach at TRC so I can’t offer my opion on content but it sounds like you want more of a legalistic church as do I. They are out there, check the Gospel section of the BDN on Saturday.  

      • Anonymous

        Exactly right. if I am not mistaken, TRC has also started a church in Sullivan- been there for awhile and doing well I hear.

        • Anonymous

          they went to falmouth… the rich need God too they said… see last easters sermon on going to the rich people ( sermons are broadcast ) …wonder how many in falmouth would have dropped their jaw at that sermon… moneyyyyyyyyyy

    • Guest

      You have not a clue. Churches are hospitals trying to help people with their walk with God. It is obvious you know nothing about the church. You sound bitter…….God is waiting

      • Anonymous

         You sound brainwashed…

        • Anonymous

          Can’t wash something that doesn’t exist, redpoint86.

    • While it sounds like you are referring to the youth group that used to meet at the church- not the weekend church gatherings- I caution you against classifying every teen that has ever attended that youth group and had their lives changed for the positive.  There may have been a few you know that may have fallen away, but there are hundreds that have not and lead productive lives… Just saying.

      • Anonymous

        hundreds??? many left, few stayed.  those that know the truth left. It was a ministry that was left to run wild in full view of the adult leaders. new christians are put in charge all the time, lead life groups and are blatentley living in sin… but these people do not question leadership, they are too happy to be in charge of something… I was an adult in this ministry and what you say is not true, and you were not part of that ministry until recently.. just saying 

        • Who is this? Easy to say such strong words hiding behind a screenname…

          • Anonymous

            I dont hide, I speak up in public as well… anyone who wants more truth may meet with me personally, But truth is subjective for TRC… I encourage people to listen to the sermons, if they know the gospel it is easy to spot the Vineyard gospel is preached here…

          • You made a public comment here, and chose to do it without your real name. 

            Regardless I encourage people to listen to the sermons, as well, since that’s why we put them online… What do you define as the “Vineyard gospel”, and what is it that differs from The Gospel that bothers you?

          • Anonymous

            the church follows the same teachings as the Vineyard churches… do some research on the twisted gospel message, its out there, and not accepted and called a cult by many well respected bible authorities… sin is not subjective, we dont all have our “own journey or path” the road is narrow and the same for all. sin is not an issue at this church, thats not a church

          • You are absolutely wrong. This church believes in sin, and that there are penalties for not turning from it. Maybe your experience with Oneway youth group was different, but this church preaches sin and it’s consequences- as does the Vineyard message.

            You really need to find something else to do with your time than publicly defame a church. I can take a good guess on who this is, but I wont embarass you.

          • Anonymous

            actually, my words are stronger in person over these types of cultist churches. today I was gentle and anyone can confirm the facts if they look deep enough. OUTSIDERS, hopefully will take heed to not blindly trust TRC is preaching the true meaning of the gospel message.

    • Religion has helped many people.  That being said it is not for everyone. Some people can live a perfectly moral life without religion . I know is hard for religious people to understand that. Almost every major atrocity Know to man kind has been done in the name of religion. Mostly people misusing it.  The real issue I have is it dose not SEEM to want people to question authority. I have a great deal for respect for religion Great for some. it is really to bad religion dose not seem to have much respect for agnostics . It take all kind of different people to make any society work. The agnostics and atheist will tend to keep things in check.  Oh lets start this Hole war . No I do not think so. God tells us so see.   Wait what makes you think your religions is Better.  See we all need to respect others . In the long run that what will make a society grow.  But what do I know ?I am a lost sole.

  • Pretty simple:  The space wasn’t zoned for a church, so while the city was going to bend the rules a bit for the church it simply couldn’t expand.  It’s a church, not a business. 

  • Anonymous

    1. It will hurt the local business.  At least temporarily, however this is not a good time to have business falter
    2. Churches do not pay taxes.  However whether you like their faith or not.  They help the community financially by helping those out in need.  They help out globally by sending missionaries to build homes and provide medical services to countries in need.  Whether you like it our not, these facts cannot be debated.
    3. Christians are imperfect…just like everybody.  The difference is they strive to meet a certain code of standard…everyone in America knows this code, so when they fail, they bash them for it.  I think there should be a healthy amount of criticism towards Christians, because it will hopefully help them to strive harder to be better people.
    4. Christians sometimes do begin to hang out with new people, not because they see themselves as better people, but habits are hard to break in the presence of people you have done them with…ask AA
    5. I think that Brewer was within it’s legal right, however there is some debate about a federal exemption…regardless, the community votes for leaders, the leaders spoke, people have to move on. 
    6. name calling, stereotyping, rudeness, will not help us get along any better

    • If I could like this post 10+ times I would!  Very well put, and very well organized… :)

    • PabMainer

      Very well stated…..

    • Anonymous

      One last statement…I didnt graduate high school, I was strung out on drugs…been to jail…The moment I started going to church, my life was renewed.  I now am free from all drugs, I graduated cum laude from the University of Maine in Education, I have a beautiful family.  Some people do have some difficult and trying experiences associated with church. Sometimes people of the church can let you down, but so can’t your neighbors, your mom, your friend, your police officer, your politician, your social worker…on and on.  Obviously my viewpoint is biased, because my I have never felt the peace in my life that I do now.

  • Anonymous

    Does Brewer have a war against religion?  Traffic concerns stopped a church from being built years ago on outer Wilson Street – but it seems there were no traffic concerns when that area was filled with EMMC, Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc!  This county’s freedom is in jeapardy when basic zoning laws degeneate into extreme legalizm.  Zoning ordanances have become dictatorial tools to enforce petty preferences.

  • Anonymous

    Smart move Brewer. Don’t let another church destroy your tax base. Let Bangor subsidize the religion.

  • Anonymous

    they say over 800 members… HOWEVER, if u walk in once you are counted as  a member. They also count every child who came ONCE… this is not an accurate count, but inflated for numbers… it takes 3 services to count 200 people on average combined each sunday.  Once u fill out their connect card, you up their membership count , this isnt exactly an accurate count. what is the count of actual returning “members” each week, about 200..

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