December 15, 2017
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Comments for: Groups speaking out against proposed Canada-Maine tar sands oil pipeline

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  • ptkitty

    We get 20% of our IMPORTED oil from CANADA–more than Saudi Arabia and Mexico COMBINED…  

    Canada’s oil supply is stable and predictable.  Why are these environmental-whacko groups calling the shots?  When did they stop driving vehicles  and using oil as their primary fuel?  These groups provide nothing but objections…and never any Credible solutions.  And Where’s Obama’s plan for America’s energy independence ?

    Canada will sell and ship their oil to other countries…WE LOSE again!   Thank you…You two-faced hypocrites!

    • Guest

      Have hope, the fight is far from over

    • Anonymous

      There is no such thing as American “energy independence”.  The GOP has changed the phrasing to “energy security” because they’ve been forced to admit American petroleum is sold overseas.  Yup, you read that right.  Once again for those who missed it on the TV, in the newspaper, and on the radio, here is how oil is sold on a world market:

      It doesn’t really matter where the oil comes from.  Most of the oil produced in the world goes into the same pot, the same tank so to speak.  Then it goes on the world market (Wall St) for the best price.  American distributors, sometimes the very same companies that contribute to that big world sized oil tank, then buy the oil back at fair market prices.  These are “world” fair market prices and have absolutely nothing to do with which country the oil originated from.  So we pay the same as everyone.  Now supposing the U.S. or Canada did increase oil production to increase supply.  Then OPEC would simply lower their production to maintain the the same supply and demand ratio, and thus the highest price possible.  Sorry but that is the way it works.

      • Guest

        “It doesn’t really matter where the oil comes from”
        “There is no such thing as American “energy independence””
        I am just glad most Americans dont think the way you do…

      • Anonymous

        Yes, listen to the guy with all the answers. “It doesn’t really matter where the oil comes from.”
        Of course it does, how do you think we end up subsidizing unfriendly governments and terrorism?

        That would be like saying it doesn’t matter where your wheat is grown, by the country that can cut you off and starve you or by your own people. 

        Your statement is downright foolhardy.

        • Anonymous

          You’ve deliberately quoted me out of context.  What I meant, and you know it too, is that regardless of where the oil originates it ends up on the world market.   And because you and MeForest obviously need to have things explained to you, the phrase “world market” is used to denote the fact that oil is priced by demand around the world, not just here in the U.S.  That is true  even if the oil originates in the U.S.  American oil companies don’t give U.S. consumers a break in price just because the oil comes from our own country.  Hopefully that is clear to you both now.  I would also add that if American/Candadian/Mexican oil production goes up, OPEC simply lowers production to maintain that high price on the world market.

          As for subsidizing free trade around the world via our military presence, I have to agree with you on that one.  I don’t like it one bit.  To do so cost Americans their manufacturing jobs plus the expense of a military used to protect those interests.   American citizens lose on both accounts.  The only winners are the stock holders in the American corporations that avail themselves of foreign manufacturing.  In my opinion, though legal, that isn’t right.

        • So we can all assume that you are offering up YOUR property to run the pipeline ? That’s mighty big of you especially after seeing what oil production did to the Gulf…..This is LePage’s way of screwing Mainers because he knows his term will be a short one. Like Wisconsin we need to recall the Republican “triad” in Maine…then we’ll talk about pipelines…

    • Anonymous

      Obama has opened more areas to oil exploration than George Bush. Look it up! Instead of spouting off with name calling why don’t you do some research first. Look up ‘Six Reasons Keystone XL Was a bad Deal All Along’ on Fox News. Also look up the taxpayer subsidies in the form of tax breaks for the refineries to buy the necessary equipment to process the heavy tar sands oil. Some of these refineries are owned in part by Saudi oil companies. Google ‘Keystone XL benefits from taxpayer subsidies’. Also look into the objections to the pipeline by the republican governor of Nebraska. Look before you leap.

      • Anonymous

        obama objected to the pipeline because his friend, Warren Buffet, owns a Canadian railroad that will make millions hauling oil to the west coast to ship to China. It’s always about someone making money.

        • Sounds like a great place to send their oil…no objection here.

        • Anonymous

          That is republican spin. The pipeline is regulated by the State Department because it crosses the US/Canada international border. Look at the statements Obama has made. He has not refused to allow the pipeline to be built. He has only delayed its development because of concern of possible damage which would be caused by a spill on the original route planned. He is paying particular attention to the concerns expressed by the Governor of Nevada and ranchers and farmers in the effected states, most of who are conservatives worried about their economies.
          The pipeline will be built. The delay is to allow adequate time to determine any effects of the alternate route now being looked at. That is clear from the response of the State Department when the republicans forced the decision to be made in two months. The State Department had no choice but to recommend not approving the pipeline since there was not enough time to do the necessary evaluation.
          99% of Canada’s crude oil exports come to the US. This pipeline is to move the oil to refineries in Texas which will then ship finished product overseas. The US will not benefit. It will only help a foreign country improve its exports to other foreign countries.

    •  Yeah talk about “whackos”….you certainly fit that bill. Why would anyone want to destroy their natural surroundings to appease the greed of Republican oil interests ? Shale oil is a waste of time and money since it REQUIRES more oil to produce than it yields ! Do you research FACTS before you comment in support of your Republican buddies, who by the way will give you NONE (that’s zero) of the supposed profit ? Your gas/oil price will go up if  anything, to pay the cost of building it. Please by all means let Canada sell their oil over seas and let them pipe it there. We already got one “bad gift” from Canada. He’s sitting in the Blaine house warm and fat, while scheming to starve the State’s poor and elderly. Obama has pushed wind/solar power which is a much more viable solution HOWEVER, dummies like LePage are paid by BIG OIL to ensure that will NEVER happen in Maine. Look into the facts of what it takes to process a gallon of that “junk oil”….then come back here and show me why you think it would make us all winners….you are nothing more than another Republican “wanna-be” that thinks the BIG OIL companies are out to actually helpp YOU….LOLOLOLOLOLOL !!!!!

  • hasacluemaine

    The Natural Resource Council and others have sold out to the wind industry and endorse the destruction of Maine’s mountaintops. Aside from the destruction of our mountains, wind eenergy is subsidized by rate and taxpayers. to the tune of 30% plus over conventional energy. NRCM, you are a joke.

    • Anonymous

      Look at the mountaintop devestation in the southern Appalachia mountains for a glimpse of where our energy comes from now. Is that devastation OK just because it’s down there? Windmills look pretty good in comparison.

  • jimbobhol

    Solar and wind will not power my vehicle or the truck that delivers food to the grocery store.

    • Anonymous

      Then it really should be no wonder to you why food and gas cost as much as they do.

      • Guest

        It costs a lot because solar & wind cant survive without taxpayer support…!

        •  That’s a big lie, but even if it were true, I would gladly foot the bill as a taxpayer for the benefit in the end, rather than to just keep shoveling money into Big Oil’s pockets. My home runs off-grid with solar and wind and the ONLY problem I had with it to date is getting approval from mostly Republican “officials” that are paid by Oil company execs to stop it. In the end when crude shale oil spills into Maine’s waterways and devastates your environment I will not be paying the raised prices to fix it…My power is free : )  Suckers….

          • Guest

            I am soo happy that you can afford to live off the grid and preach to the rest of us, but like most we want this,,,, see you at the poles…

      • Anonymous

        your food and gas cost so much due to the infaltionary policies of the federal reserve…please, please get educated on monetary policy

        •  You mean the same Federal Reserve that doesn’t use food and/or oil prices as an inflationary indicator ? I would say you should follow your own advice…..

      • jimbobhol

        That’s called inflation and Fed is responsible for that by printing money.

    •  Actually it will. The problem is that your buddies in the Big Oil biz work directly with automakers and will never build a solar powered car because they sell oil. Did you catch that ? THEY SELL OIL…..the Big Oil companies can’t take your money for solar/wind power so they don’t want it interfering with their present monopoly. Doesn’t take a lot of brains to figure that out….maybe politics isn’t really your thing Jim. Maybe you can take up basketweaving with your leader LePage come next election or better yet…recall.

      • jimbobhol

        Must be a liberal always attack and insult someone. Can’t face reality huh.  Go read about T. Boone Pickens one of the billionaire  oil dudes you like to refer to.  Might enlighten you a tad. How’s the chevy volt working out for ya.

  • Anonymous

    wish they would protest in China for a change. If they did would love to see it on you tube lol, china’s gov would run them over with tanks.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve always said the GOP ought to be deported to China where they share similar concepts of what is right and what is wrong.  I see you agree.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, its the GOP that wants the Catholic Church to go against its teachings and force them to provide abortions and birth control. In fact that would be your Democrats pushing that..sounds like Chinese politics to me..communist style.

        • Anonymous

          Revoke the tax free status of the churches. They are way into politics, a relation that should be severed. They want to play, make them pay taxes.

          • Anonymous

            I agree completely.  However this particular discussion is about pipelines, not special rights for religious groups that deny employee benefits.

          • Anonymous

            I was replying to mainer4ever’s comment whicch was not on topic but brought in the church thing. I realized my reply was also off topic when I wrote it but thanks for the criticism anyway.

        • Anonymous

          Yup.  Revoke the citizenship of all republicans and give them a oneway ticket to China.

  • Guest

    I bet if we put it to a vote we would get our pipeline.

    The Nature Conservancy, The Natural Resources Council of Maine, Sierra Club Maine, Natural Resources Defense Council, The Conservation Law Foundation and National Wildlife Federation are all a bunch of bought and paid for special interest groups— Americans are getting sick of their BS

    • Anonymous

      Lets imagine this pipeline was going to cross your property MeForest.  I can picture you standing on your property line, armed, warning anyone who crosses it that they do so at their peril.

      • Guest

        Id rather have a pipeline crossing my property, than have some fat old ugly liberal millionaire wanting to kick me off my land for some lame park….

        And FYI, if a pipe does have to cross your property, the oil company would be very generous for the privilege, and would not stop me from utilizing my land for traditional uses…!

        You need to do your homework before you comment

        • Anonymous

          So lets see here, first I’m a fat old ugly liberal who wants to kick you off your land for a park.  Now that has a lot to do with the subject.  Second, it’s OK to run a pipe across your property if you get paid enough.  Geez you didn’t sound so conciliatory about the healthcare debate.  I doubt you are genuine here.  Third, I need to do my homework????  I think you got it wrong MeForest.  You are letting your anti-left gut reaction overwhelm your judgement.

          So often I am tempted to respond in the same ignorant style as those who disagree and yet, fortunately, I actually do have an education and know how pointless such childish responses actually are.  MeForest, consider what I have said.  Try to learn a little and if you cannot then at least try to learn to keep an open mind.  In the long run an open mind will serve you much better than all the Limbaugh lies you could ever learn on the radio.

          • Guest

            First- I was talking about Quimby, and that does have a lot to do with this…
            Second- A forced healthcare mandate “is” unconstitutional
            Third- The Sands Project offers less dependence on Middle East oil and that “is” important. So is the fact that if we didnt export our oil, we would be that much closer to being energy independent.

            Lastly, my knowledge of oil comes from the oil fields and not from a bunch of greenies sitting around making up a bunch of lies and calling it fact…!

          • Anonymous

            Like shooting fish in a barrel.

          •  Yup George…your wasting your time with MeForest. Big mouth small mind…..

          • First …Roxanne Quimby, with her billions of dollars, has a pretty good say in things and will never allow this….
            Second..Healthcare is not the topic
            Third ….You are not dependent on Middle East Oil. American companies buy that oil and sell it to you for a HUGE profit…you think they’ll do different with Canada shale ?
            Lastly your “knowledge” of oil is frighteningly inadequate. We will NEVER be free of oil until renewable energy is utilized. When the price is close to $5/gal after elections you will see. I use wood heat, solar and wind for electric and I KEEP my paycheck each week. I only wish all Mainers would do the same and they can join me in putting dollars into Maine’s retail economy which helps local business, AND provides need for jobs.

          • Guest

            First- The old girl hasnt got “billions” and as of now she doesnt have a chance at getting her park
            Second- Your right healthcare isnt the topic, but unlike ObamaCare, this project “will” happen
            Third- I have always said that all forms of energy should be explored, but if it needs green credits to exist then I am opposed to it.

        •  Traditional uses ? Like the shrimp fisherman in the Gulf you mean ? Like I said before…your pipeline has as much chance of passing as LePage has of re-election. That should put it at about zero.

          • Guest

            I guess we will see….

    • Anonymous

      And the republicans in the state where the aquifer is located, as well as the farmers and ranchers who would be effected by an oil spill, are all against oil, right? Do your research. The oil is to be shipped to refineries in a tax free zone in Texas, where it will be processed and then shipped to Europe. None of it will be sold in the US. It will increase the price of oil in this country because it will allow the oil now stored in the midwest to be processed. At the moment the fact that that oil cannot be moved fast is depressing the price of oil. Look up ‘Six Reasons Keystone XL Was A Bad Deal All Along’ on Fox news.

      • Guest

        No, thats wrong.
        This oil will be sold in the US

        • Anonymous

          What is your source for making that statement? I have provided one source to show that it will not benefit the US at all.

          • Guest

            You haven’t supplied me with squat…

          • Anonymous

            In other words, you just like to spout off without being able to back up your statements. Thanks for not adding anything intelligent to the discussion.

          • Guest

            Actually I was just about to say that about you

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for proving my point that you can’t back up your statements with a source and just like to spout off. If you are unable to check my sources, or do not know how to use a search engine, just ask any neighborhood kid over 5 years old.

          • Guest

            I hope you wont be bitter when it eventually happens,,, and it will…!

          • Anonymous

            Apparently you are not paying attention. The issue is not whether or not it is going to be built. The issue is that the currently planned path goes through an aquifer which supplies water to ranchers and farmers in 5 states. With that plan if a leak occurred it would effect the multibillion dollar food industry which supplies about 20% of the US food supply. Besides endangering a large percentage of our food supply, it would endanger the economies of those 5 states which depend on farming and ranches.
            There is little doubt that eventually a pipeline will be built since the refineries have already been given taxpayer funded supplements (in the form of tax breaks) to build or buy the necessary equipment.
            It will then be up to the politicians to explain what happened to the thousands of jobs that were promised but never created and why the price of fuel in the US does not go down. Most jobs to build the pipeline will be short term. Since the price of oil is determined by the world market, not the US market, the pipeline will not result in a decrease in oil prices.
            Again, the pipeline will help a foreign country (Canada) export its oil through the US to refineries in a tax free zone (because of free trade agreements) to be shipped overseas to another foreign country, most likely in Europe. The American taxpayer will be left holding the bills.

          • Guest

            This pipeline will happen, it will create many jobs, and it will provide a significant option if Iran becomes more of a problem…

            Deal with it

          •  MeForest has no credible source. He/she is merely parroting what the Republicans tell them is the truth. MeForest is one of the fools that think they will somehow profit by backing greedy Republicans and Big Oil. His/her tune will change when they realize they will get NOTHING from this pipeline except sinking land values….Wake up MeForest…the Republicans appreciate your help but THEY will get all the profit…not you. They can use that money to build a new home in a clean environment…

          • Anonymous

            This is just the same as the people who supported GATT and NAFTA. I remember them spouting similar nonesense in lockstep. “Free trade” was their mantra. Does anyone today think NAFTA was a good idea?  It is the same with tar sands.  Americans will not benefit.  It is the truth. I don’t understand how people can believe such nonsense.  How can I have faith in humankind when they think this way? 

        •  Here we go again ! Do you work for Paul LePage ? You won’t see a drop of that oil nor any saving at all from offering up YOUR home to ship it through. To prove your foolishness answer me this “Why does the proposed pipeline run to Portland’s coast ?” If it is truly for Maine then why not store it right in the middle of the State for easy dispersal ? Where is New Hampshire’s share ? Vermont ? It runs to the coast because that’s where it will be pumped into tankers and sent away….all you will get is the sludge and pollution, ruined fishing grounds, and the very same oil prices you already have ! Actually your price will go UP to pay the cost of building that pipeline. How do you think the rich get that way ? Hard work ? Lolololol !!

          • Anonymous

            Go get them, Dude.

          • Guest

            So then you are saying that we are not already and havent been flipping the bill for wind & solar power….

    • Anonymous

       In a recent poll 47% supported Obama’s decision to delay the pipeline until the environmental impact on the alternative path had been completed. 36% wanted it started without the impact study. Guess you are wrong.

      • Guest

        If you say so

    •  I’m an American and I am standing behind each and every one of them. I don’t care if YOU think you’ll get any benefit from a pipeline….like a child you must be stopped from hurting yourself and others with your uninformed decisions. People who know better are getting pretty tired of your BS as well….

      • Guest

        I guess we will see how many people are standing behind you when this goes to the poles

  • Guest

    …..

    • Guest

      You seem to have skipped the ongoing reclamation process

      • Guest

        ….

  • Anonymous

    To those who think they are in the know but actually are not; Obama is not against this pipeline.  He is against routing it over the aquifer that provides the vast majority of water for our farms in the mid-west without an environmental study.  The republican party, in an election year ploy meant to falsely denigrate our President, insisted on passing the legislation without this study.  Had the bill passed, and the pipeline been built, and then leaked rendering the whole of America’s  mid-west without potable water, the GOP would have been the first to criticize President Obama for allowing it to happen.  Dang hypocrites that they are!  Those who support such a risky venture without doing the environmental study are either politically motivated, stupid beyond belief, or selfish to the point that they would risk Americas bread basket for the profits of the petroleum companies. 

    • Anonymous

      Wrong. The state government and the company have changed the plan to route it away from any aquifer. This is about keeping Obama’s eco-warriors in line.

      • Anonymous

        Saying I am wrong, no matter how many times you say it, does not make you right mainer4nothing.

        • Anonymous

          There IS a route Around Obummers false objection.

      • Why not just keep it in Canada’s aquifer ? They can build a pipeline to the East or West right to the seaport of their choice. After all what’s in it for us ? Nothing. If you think YOUR price will go down you are a fool. It will go up to pay to build the pipeline.

    • Anonymous

      The Oglala aquifer is already riddled with atrazine, look it up, you’re clueless, like all the other reactionary environmentalists.  And you aparantly have zero understanding of pipeline technology these days.  The possibility of a pipeline leak that would impact “the whole of America’s midwest” is nothing but exageration and hyperbole.  And besides, without the “study” that your claiming needs to be done, how do you even know the extent of the impact from your fictional scenario.  Man, your logic doesn’t even pan out.  Now go sit down, do some reading, and get yourself a clue.

      • Anonymous

        So you are saying it’s OK to pollute any place that is not now pristene and unspoiled? I think it’s you are clueless reactionary corporatist. Profit at any cost.

    • Anonymous

      agreed

  • Guest

    In the end, the pipeline “will” happen…!

    •  Not a chance. The “Liberal Tree Huggers” will beat you as they always do….Lol !!! Deal with it.

      • Guest

        Not likely

  • Anonymous

    we need the oil shut up

  • Great ! With a “bank-centered”  Tea Party radical as Governor this is sure to cause a fight….LePage knows his career is over, why not destroy the State ?

  • Anonymous

    Where is a cost accountant when you need one. All of the money that would be used to fund this project and its litigation could be usedefficiently, cooperatively and peaceably in producing a system of sustainable solar power.  Help each household to become an energy plant, no one would oppose this effort.  Solar energy is noiseless, odorless and unobtrusive, who could be against it?  Maine has the most sunlight on the east coast same Florida.  This is impressive and a natural resource.  Sand tar is dirty it is nowhere, solar is clean and going somewhere, solar is the answer.

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