December 13, 2017
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Comments for: Health providers gird for DHHS cuts under compromise deal

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  • LePage has his insurance though, right?  His daughter right out of college got a state job with full health insurance coverage, right?  Just making sure all our politicians are covered, screw us, we don’t need no stinkin health care or food or heat.  As long as the Greedy One Percenters are all set that’s what counts.

    • Anonymous

      This is the legislature taking action, not the Governor.

      • Anonymous

        But the Gov has made it clear this is what he wants … in fact, the legislature didn’t go far enough, he said under the threat of a veto. 

        • Just like he made it clear to little kids in back alleys of Lewsiton in his youth,

          Give me your candy or I’ll beat you up!

    •  ” we don’t need no stinkin health care or food or heat.”

      That about says it all for why Maine is what Maine is.

    • Guest

      The difference is both of them are getting up in the morning and going to work  — unlike you gimme gimme welfare recipients.

      • Anonymous

        Well, we know his job is to spread hate and discontent. But, what’s her specialty?

      • Anonymous

        You know not of what you speak!

      • Anonymous

        here here 

    • Anonymous

      are your 1% ers politicians? or do you follow the sound bites of the left?

  • Anonymous

    I wonder if we recall or impeach him, will he still get his benefits for life?

    • Anonymous

      oh yes and he retires to Florida the day he is done with his Maine State Retirement

      • Anonymous

        And why wouldn’t he?He’s going from a state with million $$ Medicare fraud (Nutting)to a state run by a guy with MULTImillion $$ Medicare fraud(Rick Scott)Got to aspire,you know.And he gets to tan with his little buddy Tarron Bragdon -kind of like the Skipper and Gilligan.

    • Anonymous

      Do you suppose that we ought to find out, first, if it is even legally possible to “recall” or “impeach” a sitting Maine governor?

      Some people have watched way too much television.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t know how old you are but I was taught that in school, you can impeach anyone you want

        • Anonymous

          We have all this talk about impeaching LePage, but no one is doing anything about it. That’s the problem with this welfare state, everyone wants someone else to do the work for them. The wost part is, the lazy ones complain that the ones doing all the work aren’t giving enough.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah.. He could probably be impeached. The problem is. He is doing exactly what he was elected to do..  No offense but it seems as tho the only ones that are against him in these discussions are probably people who are receiving benefits while the people who voted him in are out working..  As brutal as I have heard his slashing in here … it would seem he is doing what he is supposed to.. If  the majority of Maine  felt the same way as most of these liberals he may just be impeached.. But hes not.. he is still there.. and Id wager he will be there again.. So get use to it.. strap in and be prepared to start having to make some sacrifices .. because I think he has much more to do!!
           

          • Anonymous

            Maybe some  people are recieving, I’m not, I’d rather eat my own arm then to take welfare as a matter of fact we’re having forearm alfredo for dinner tonight. Why do you think they are, it’s not them getting cut.

      • Anonymous

        If there isn’t an impeachment process,there needs to be one.R’s HATED FDR and passed a law limiting terms.NO other branch has term limits except the Presidency.

      • Anonymous

        I’m  no legal scholar. A quick skim of Maine’s constitution finds:

        “The House of Representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment” and “The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments, and when sitting for that purpose shall be on oath or affirmation, and noperson shall be convicted without the concurrence of 2/3 of the members present. Their judgment, however, shall not extend farther than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold or enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under this State. But the party, whether convicted or acquitted, shall nevertheless be liable to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment according to law.”

        Also–“Every person holding any civil office under this State, may be removed by impeachment, for misdemeanor in office; and every person holding any office, may be removed by the Governor on the address of both branches of the Legislature. But before such address shall pass either House, the causes of removal shall be stated and entered onthe journal of the House in which it originated, and a copy thereof served on the person in office, that the person may be admitted to a hearing in that person’s own defense.”

        But what constitutes an impeachable offense is not clear to me. 

        Also, according to a BDN article from about a year ago, “While the Maine Constitution has provisions for impeachment… it doesn’t set out a process for citizens to initiate elected action to remove state officials from office.”

        So developing such a process would be the first step. And that is unlikely to happen–unless LePage keeps infuriating the Republican as well as Democratic legislators. Even then, I suspect an impeachable offense would have to involve a degree of criminal behavior typically associated with jail time.

      • chris reid

        What is the process  for citizens to initiate a recall/impeachment of lepage?? Anyone??

        • Anonymous

          I wish I knew, but I will be willing to bet if you get him to lie under oath, he will be impeached.

          • That shouldn’t be to hard!

            LOL 

      • Anonymous

        If he lies under oath we can impeach him, currently we cannot recall him yet.

    • Anonymous

      lepage deserves nothing

  • Anonymous

    His supporters aren’t really piling up are they?    He will never understand that just because he is the governor doesn’t mean what he says goes.   

    It’s quite the contrary;  his duty is to work with the legislature, not against it.   His obligation is to the will of the Maine people,   and those representatives reflect the will of the Maine citizens more so than he does.    He isn’t even within sight of his electorate,  he needs to be educated on the in’s and out’s of statewide elective politics,  and he needs to seriously be looked at as it regards his ability to make judgement. 

    • Anonymous

      Was this really learned in a high school civics class….or was it  just made up?

      The comment seems to demonstrate an astounding lack of knowledge of how the branches of government are supposed to work.

      In this case the governor does not “make” the laws, the legislature does that. Part of the balance of powers is that the governor has veto power over the legislature, to a point. The governor cannot make law no matter how badly he might want to. The governor has the exact same right to lobby the legislature as any of us Maine citizens do.

      If one wants to criticize the governor that is their perogative, but one ought to at least understand how the system works first!

      • Anonymous

        So your basically saying it doesn’t matter what party is in office, “they” are all in it together?

        • Anonymous

          “They” want the same ole same ole. Then someone comes in and wants change, now all of a sudden the sky is falling and we need to get rid of the free radicals. “They” are the biggest leaches of the working mans money. “They” have been in government to long. “They” need to go, everyone of them. Time to bring in new ideas and not have stone walls to stop them. It is impossible to have change with same ole same ole.

          • Anonymous

            You are correct in my opinion. I feel that “They” need to be greatly reduced in number, the good ole min. wage, a nice 401k for their retirement,  should be the benefits for the self labeled “public servants”. I’m not even going to mention a tax overhaul. Get rid of insurance, reduce medical care by 80%.  I think anyone who can insure their adult children until they are 27 can also feed, house them and their children and  no one under 27 should recieve welfare.

          • Anonymous

            You are right in the last part and anyone  getting SSDI for “mental disabilities”needs to be looked at.This is a HUGE scam,perpetrated by well paid psychologists,hospitals,etc.If you have worked 30++ years and can prove physical breakdown,then you should be allowed to file-and then you still will be denied in 2/3 of cases.I lived in a rooming house where half the people were getting a check for some hogwash.I’m sure they are still collecting and nothing is wrong with them-and they were all younger than me,except one who had legitimate PTSD.

          • Anonymous

            And let’s stop the double and triple dipping.USA Today did an article about legislators “serving”,leaving,consulting and returning to increase their already bloated pensions.I don’t hold out hope that will ever happen.

          • Anonymous

            Good point, all of it. It’s the politicans job to kill hope except for the welfare. The long and short is this, they’ll get the welfare on their side, the rest of us die, no more money then guess who is next on the death list? Fair justice ……in the end. I won’t live to see it but I’m going to laugh all the way to my grave.

    •  He was elected by making promises to Maine citizens and he is keeping those promises.  Baldacci’s obligations were to the Maine people as well but he did precious little that I supported in his 8 years but I, unlike you, understand what its like to be in the minority.  Baldacci and his band of democrats did what they wanted, when they wanted to whomever they wanted.  LePage is at least having a forum about the changes he is proposing.  I for one agree with all that he has done including telling Obama to go to hell and taking that stupid labor mural down.

  • Anonymous

    HOSPITALS!! We don’t need no stinking hospitals. No siree we don’t need hospitals. We don’t need Doctors. We don’t need Nurses. We got something much much better we got THE MAN. The man with the plan. We got Paul Richard LePage and don’t you forget it.

  • This is among the stupidest decisions Paul LePage has bullied Mainers into allowing him to cram down our throats. Since when does a fiscally responsible government decline two matching dollars for anything ?

    • Anonymous

      typical dem response, we cant afford it. we’re broke. there is no more money.

      how many times do you have to hear it.

      the feds are not our friends, their programs look good to dems at first but the rules get changed and the fed money dries up and the state taxpayers get left holding the bill.

      cut the budget. cut cut cut

      • Anonymous

        Go ahead…cut, cut, and cut some more. When my employer starts laying off nurses, cutting pay or benefits, making nurses work in understaffed facilities…I will leave and so will others. I don’t have to stay here, and neither do most healthcare workers; Maine doesn’t pay nurses that great compared to many other places. We can get a job anywhere. The state will lose tax money that way…skilled people with good wages will not be around to support the economy and this state will continue to deteriorate. 

        • Anonymous

          No one can afford the hospital, nurses and doctors so it looks like a lost cause anyway.

    • Joe

      Kind of like Obama Care, huh?  I bet you think that’s great though.

      • Anonymous

        No you cannot impeach me I’m not your type.

  • Anonymous

    Why is everyone here attacking LePage? These proposals are from the Legislature’s Appropriations Committee. Refer to rule #1 Keep it civil and stay on topic.

    • Anonymous

      he needs to be attacked 

      • Anonymous

        MEOOOOW!

      • Joe

        Promoting violence?

    • {Why is everyone here attacking LePage?}

      Nobody like’s him !

      LOL

      • Anonymous

        Sure, I get that. But this is the Legislature’s proposal. Do you think they are doing the right thing with this deal?

  • Anonymous

    This is discrimination against childless people. This government has always discriminated against single childless people by over taxation.

    • Anonymous

      TRUE!And people like the Duggars cost us all but get hundreds of thousands in tax credits,free stuff and TV checks.DISGUSTING.

      • Anonymous

        Thank-you. I think if people can insure their adult kids until they are about 27, they should be supporting them too.

        • Anonymous

          They dont insure them, their company they work for is forced to offer insurance for them.

          Once your out of school, time to get a job and your own damn insurance, no more leaching off everyone else.  I can see all these 25 yr old slackers living in mommies basement getting coverage off Daddies insurance and everyone at Daddies company paying even more to cover dead beat jr.  Where I work everyones policy went up another 300$ a year to pay for this aspect of Obama care. Needless to say some of the fellow employees who have these slackers are the benificiary of this while everyone else got to pay even more!

          Thanks to Obama Care. I wonder how many small businesses dropped insurance for their employees instead of picking up this extra cost?

    • Anonymous

      Do you mean discriminate as in.. not giving a free ride?.. What are you talking about ?.. I mean seriously..  Do you know what a deficit is?.. You actually believe that cutting childless  able bodied younger people off the welfare system is discrimination?.. Come on now get a grip .. I cant even believe this is how we think now.. Maine has been in the welfare business waaaaayyyyyyyy too long I guess

      • Anonymous

        I’m saying there’s are large number of people, they’ve work 40 years, now they have say something like  arthritis can’t even tie their shoes. Or say injured in an accident, have other problems that came upon them later in life. Why should they be punished? They are the ones who helped carry this country for the last 40 years.
        Believe me I’m not for welfare. As a matter of fact now, people can insure their adult kids until they are about 27, perhaps no one under 27 should recieve welfare?
        Do I know what a deficit is? I sure do I’d like to buy some oil, and some medicine but I can’t cause despite the fact I have 2 jobs, I have to make sure the welfare has a better house than mine, a better car, medical care a nice warm home. If you ever followed these post you’d know I’m about the first person who says  end welfare

  • Anonymous

    Hospital CEO’s  make a ton of money.  They should have their salaries cut in half, they could still live quite nicely on their salary.  It’s just absolutely ridiculous. 

    • Anonymous

      Same with insurance companies.Why an insurance CEO in CT gets $19.1M is absurd.

  • Time to wean these healthy ,single adults off the states teat. Time to get rid of the welfare state the dems have built once and for all. Fun time is over.

    • Anonymous

      agree.. emphatically agree

    • Anonymous

      Also time for 1 yr residency requirement and mandatory drug tests and time limits to be on the dole!

  • Anonymous

    Another headline today–“Report shows Maine job losses worst in nation per capita.”

    LePage ran for governor on the basis of bringing jobs to Maine. He is all set to turn down federal money for MaineCare–indeed he would love to demolish MaineCare. This will result in hundreds of people in healthcare getting laid off, statewide.

    People who are unemployed do not spend much money in their communities. Community bisinesses will have fewer customers, buying fewer products. Theywill need to lay off workers–a downward spiral.

    I’m beginning to suspect that ALEC (which dictates LePage’s agenda) has decided to wreck the US economy ASAP, since it has been starting to recover, and they depend on lousy employment figures if they’re going to succeed in their core goal–to defeat President Obama.

    • Anonymous

      I was going to post that too.Thanks for posting it.And your last point is well made.And notice that Kestrel’s jobs went to where?-oh yes,WI to reward Scott Walker.Tell me that wasn’t designed.

    • Anonymous

      yep read that this morning — and now we will get to add the unemployed health care workers to those 7200 lost jobs — seems he had the sign put up but is trying to turn off the lights — he did not lie about one statement in his state of the state address — he can not create jobs but he is doing a pretty good job of eliminating them

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think they will stay unemployed for long. Healthcare workers are trained, skilled, and sought after. If they cannot find work here, they will get it somewhere else. For some it may be more difficult; CNA’s for example must be certified in the state that they work (they cannot move between states). However, nurses in Maine can because Maine is one of  about 24 states that is part of a “Compact” agreement. In other words, nurses in Maine can use their Maine license to practice nursing in any of those 24 states. I am not sure of how it works with doctors but I do not imagine they would have a difficult time getting work in another state.

        In other words, our more trained and skilled workers will likely leave without employment opportunities.

    • Anonymous

      I agree And worse part is they are all going by the words and pledge they took of Grover Norquist.. There are countless news articles of him and his plan from the Washington post.. I Googled his name and got quite the eyeful.. These articles are filled with the rantings of a tyrant such as Qaddafi.. Talks about shrinking government so he can drown it.. Abolishing taxes, Cutting out all Public assistance programs, Cutting Social security, medicare,  And listen to the politicians that signed his pledge.. They are lying through their teeth, calling each other out, and names etc.. Now the debate about Obama saying if you choose to use contraceptives then from now on your insurance will pay for it.. This is wrong? The GOP says it is and have twisted it around to make it look like Obama wants you all to take contraceptives..  And people are believing this.. A poll showed that of all the ones who took the poll 58% of women voters were against it and those 58% had heard from a republican politician that it was Obama forcing them to take them.. How is this believable.. What is wrong with the people..

  • Anonymous

    Hospitals cannot keep absorbing these cuts, they are being paid well below costs now.  This will mean that some hospitals will not be able to continue providing services.  Our choices will diminish.  You cannot go to a car dealership, tell them, yeah, that car you want $25,000 for, I’m going to give you $10,000 for it, and I’m going to pay you 3-4 years from now!  THAT is what is being done to the hospitals!!  Healthcare is not cheap, but it must be paid for.  No business can survive when they give away their services, and that’s what hospitals are being forced to do.  

  • Anonymous

    This is a plea to the people  in Maine, we  need to establish a recall vote so when people like LePage get in and start running things like a dictator the people can vote him right back out, no waiting!

    • Anonymous

      very good 

    • Anonymous

      We voted him in.. he is doing what he said he would do.. why we would want to vote him out?.. I dont understand.. I have met him several times and he is doing just what he has said he was going to do.. Let him do his job  .. time to get some people of the states teat..  

      • Anonymous

        I think that some of his comments of late show that he is more concerned with getting his way and proving a point than fixing the problem and good people are going to get hurt.  The problem is to rid the system of people who are getting Maine health care and welfare benefits etc. that should not be, and there are many.  There are many people who need and depend on those benefits to survive!  I also know there are many young people in the State of Maine that are collecting Security Security from the Government, welfare and Maine care from the State and also working for themselves.   These are the people who need to be dealt with without hurting the people who really need the benefits!

    • Anonymous

      Should of recalled, Baldacci, king etc  of the past 40 year Liberal run/demise.

      They were the idiots who created the welfare culture and didnt pay the states bills!

  • Anonymous

     In the mean-time they still cant get any doctors for the new Katahdin Valley health building in the magic city. Maybe a tractor supply store will draw some in. Or maye not..:)

    • Dolby, believe me, the reason they can’t get anyone is not the money. They know why and so do I, And that reason is why I got out. Smartest move I ever made up here inThe County. And, I understand, I am not the only one figuring it out. ‘The Word’ is out !

      • Anonymous

        Can you tell us why?Admins?

        • If you have the awareness to ask then you have the ability to figure it out. Education may be a PITA but when you figure it out the trouble you go thru is going to be worth it. I had no problem with their PA’s or the Doc’s. But when piddly personality gripe’s  and office politic’s start being used as a criteria for treatment then it’s time, as they say in the Navy, to ‘abandon ship and get clear’. And there are any number of former KVHC folks who have a better seat to the going’s on inside. That $ 6 million dollar grant was not, and did not, do what was needed. All it did was provide fertilizer for what was a small ‘pile’ and it was just left to grow wild. The result’s are now obvious. And it’s a shame that an organization that had so much potential to help so many is now nothing but a wallowing organization thathas the community scratching it’s head in bewilderment. 

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    State & Federal employees who I believe are Union members have a great healthcare benefit paid for by the tax payers. Some of us tax payers can’t afford the sort of healthcare benefits theses State & federal employees receive. Why not have State & Federal employees pay more of their health insurance and cut the budget in that areas instead?

    • Anonymous

      couldnt agree with you more the tax payers have been carrying the cost of their health care for years. when the gov. talks cuts not once have i heard cuts to their health care that we pay for or any of their other perks for their part time job 

  • Anonymous

    Baldacci and Dirigo’s advisors always believed that the hospitals with their deep reserves could absorb the ‘bad debts’ of the uninsured and weather the underpayments of MAINECARE.

    Last time I checked small rural hospitals had run out of reserves and were borrowing money from local banks; as well as ‘slow paying’ vendors, reducing community services, etc.

    The legislature may have ‘fixed’ the shortfall for a few months; but what will be the impact on small rural hospitals whose financial viability is pretty shaky, i.e. Blue Hill, Machias, etc.

    • Anonymous

      You are correct. Hospitals had to borrow money to cover the state’s lack of payment. Now, they are paying back loans with interest…but does the state pay interest on the millions of dollars owed to the hospitals? From what I’ve heard, no.
      This DHHS deal is once again saying hospitals have to offer services, but the state will  not pay them fully for those services. Somebody has to pay, folks.

  • Anonymous

    Maine rino’s strike again! Another missed opportunity for the most for Maine people who continue their tax slave status due to Liberal Democrats and Republicans. Working Mainers continue to be weighed down with one of the highest tax burdens in the USA. More of our kids are looking out-of-state for work. Gotta get back to work so the “impoverished” can get another tattoo and body piercing instead of paying for their own medical  bills.

  • Anonymous

    Just read the job loss article which listed healthcare as having employment growth.  Now that healthcare reimbursement will be cut, can we expect employment losses in healthcare?  The expectable unintended consequences of governmental budget cutting may be worse than the deficit the cuts are trying to remedy.  Our governor’s one-track thinking seems to miss the expectable consequences.

    • Anonymous

      What Maine people fail to understand is that with the exception of healthcare there really aren’t that many areas in employment that are growing in our State. In order for “Job Killer” LePage to keep Maine number one as far as jobs lost he has to do something to stop the growth of jobs in the healthcare area. His plan to destroy Mainecare will for all practical purposes accomplish that. Obviously staying number one in job losses is important to Paul Richard LePage.

      • Anonymous

        Nice sign — Open for Business — but he is in the process of turning out the lights

        State of the State address ” I can not create jobs ” no he can not but he is pretty good at eliminating them

        In the last year the state has lost 7200 jobs — largest per capita lose in the nation

        People before politics — got to love those campaign slogans

      • Anonymous

        But we shouldnt be masking the problem by subsidizing hospitals. 

        The state is broke.  Using your logic the state should subsidize any business. 

        • Anonymous

          The State is NOT subsidizing hospitals.  It’s the other way around!  The State is not paying the hospital a fair amount towards the cost of the care already provided, then it takes years to pay the pittance that they are allowing (with no consideration of actual costs incurred!).  There are many smaller hospitals that ARE struggling to survive, and now they get even less money.  They won’t all survive, and that means fewer healthcare choices.  Expecting free health care cannot continue.  People must pay for what they use, and that includes healthcare.

      • Anonymous

        We have the oldest population in the country.Older people need more healthcare.

    • Anonymous

      I agree and I am a good example. If they start laying off nurses or cutting pay, I’m outta here!

    • Guest

      Is the purpose of  healthcare to cure the sick, or is it a full employment program for those who like to dress in white and have the local funeral home cover up their mistakes?

  • Anonymous

    One thing that jumped out at me was the fact that people with Mainecare are using the emergency room for expensive visits. If it is not an emergency then let them accept the responsibility of paying for that visit themselves. That would cut down on some of the hugh loses these hospitals are experiencing. 

    • Guest

      There’s no damn reason an emergency room should be more expensive.  All the expense in setting up an emergency room is preparing for the next heart attack, stroke, auto accident or gun shot wound.  If the emergency crew is just sitting around playing cards and waiting for the next heart attack, stroke, auto accident or GSW, they can just as easily treat the sprained ankle or child’s ear ache while they’re waiting for the next trauma case.  What you have here is a hospital administrator trying to shift his ER/trauma overhead on to the child’s ear ache.  This whole damn ER expense crap is nothing more than a minor accounting problem.  The hospital administrators are screwing us.

      • Anonymous

         That’s what I’ve been suspecting for a while as well.

  • Guest

    So a few physicians and hospital administrators won’t be going skiing in Aspen next winter.  BFD.

    • Anonymous

      The big deal is that if hospitals are in a financial bind, it will have a snowball effect. Staff will be laid off, making healthcare less accessible and decreasing the quality of care; those staff, unable to get jobs in Maine, will move somewhere else; our tax base will be reduced and our economy will continue to stink. 

      I find it interesting that you not only have a problem with “gimme gimme welfare recipients” but also have contempt for doctors that worked to get where they are. If you valued work so very much, you would appreciate how much time, effort, and dedication it takes to become a doctor (which is why they make so much money). 

      • Guest

        You needn’t lose any sleep about hospitals getting in a financial bind. Just look at the building spree EMMC went on for the last two decades. Yes, they’ll whine, cry, and carry on about how much money they claim they’re losing. They’ll tell you that they lose money on every patient that comes thru the door. But sit back and watch, you’ll see them building more doors and monsterous buildings to surround them just as fast as they can. Don’t believe the lies of the hospital administrators. They are just like the drug cartels. They are raking in so much cash, they have a hard time figuring out where to stash it all.

        • Anonymous

          Even if that were true, it does not mean there will not be layoffs further down the ladder. There will be and it is going to hurt the state, not help it. 

          No response about your contradicting statements regarding welfare recipients and doctors? I’m not surprised. 

          • Guest

            The welfare recipient is worthy of  contempt because he lays around all day watching Oprah, drinking his beer and scratching his lottery tickets, whilst demanding that others support him.

            The physician (many, if not most) deserve our contempt because they engage in piracy.  
            They  charge obscene fees to you and me, whether they cure or not, but will happily perform the same procedure for the insurance companies at 40-cents on the dollar.  If they bollix the job, they will charge you and me  a second (or third, or fourth) time for correcting THEIR mistake.  When they REALLY botch the job, they will shrug their shoulders, tell us that “medicine is an inexact science” and let the local undertaker take care of their mistake and STILL send you the bill.  We only ask that they treat us as honestly as the plumber, building contractor, or any other tradesman we hire.

          • Anonymous

            Very well put

        • Anonymous

          Yes,

          Maybe the hospitals need to hire better collection agencies to go after the people who dont pay.

           

          • Anonymous

            You couldn’t be more wrong.I had a family member who had a small copay that wasn’t paid(under $50)He was dealing with an illness and family problems and he simply missed it.YES his error.It went to collections and they tacked on $190 as fees on the first bill.He called for help and was told there were no limits on what they could charge.There wasn’t even a law addressing that.

  • Anonymous

    WE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY ALL OUR BILLS.It doesn’t matter who is in office. We kept voting YES on all those bonds for years. Now they’re coming due, and guess what loaners  want their money.There are less people paying income taxes Some programs must be cut or benefits must be cut. HEY maybe we can borrow from CHINA. Wake up people we are in serious trouble here.

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