Bishop no help

After reading the article “Maine Catholic bishop starts ministry to support people attracted to the same sex,” one can only wonder what rock the Roman Catholic bishop of Portland has been living under for the past 32 years if he still thinks that homosexuality is somehow an illness that can be treated by some make-believe 12-step program. His comments were extremely patronizing and condescending, but alas, shouldn’t we expect as much from this pompous man?

I would also suggest that the 1,500 members who are obviously having difficulty dealing with their own sexuality retain the services a a good psychotherapist to help them through the process, not the bishop of Portland.

Brian MacFarland

Prospect

Postal fix possible

A Feb. 3 BDN article (“Postal system’s financial woes spark debate in Maine”) quotes Sen. Susan Collins: “The funding of the liability for future retiree health benefits is not the reason why the postal service is in a financial crisis.”

That statement is misleading. In 2006 Sen. Collins co-authored legislation requiring the U.S. Postal Service to pay forward $5.5 billion every year for 10 years to cover USPS retiree health benefit expenses for 75 years. This mandate did not correct a deficiency; USPS’s future liabilities were already on solid ground, and the fund currently holds $45 billion.

No other public or private institution in America has had to meet such a dire obligation. Rep. Gerald Connolly of Virginia notes, “Most state agencies pre-fund 80 percent of anticipated retirement expenses, and the industry average in the private sector, for Fortune 1,000 companies, is closer to 30 percent.” The $21 billion diverted to this fund from USPS income since 2006 accounts for 84 percent of current USPS debt.

Several bills have been introduced to address this crisis. A bill co-sponsored by Sen. Collins, S. 1789, postpones cutbacks but fails to adequately relieve the 75-year mandate. Other bills recognize prefunding as the problem’s root cause. H.R. 1351 would reconfigure the prefunding requirement and apply retirement-fund overpayments to other USPS obligations — at no cost to taxpayers and with no severe cuts in services or jobs. Maine’s Reps. Michaud and Pingree are among its 228 bipartisan cosponsors.

John Curtis

Surry

Prayer is right choice

Unlike the writer of the letter to the editor “Off Your Knees, Please,” I view the recent signing of the document “A Call to Prayer for Maine” by Gov. LePage, Attorney General Schneider and more than two-dozen legislators as a long overdue commitment and commend those who signed the document.

By showing they believe in the motto “In God We Trust” and we are willing to act upon it, they give me great hope for our wonderful state. We need to elect more of those who “vote the Bible” and are not ashamed of their beliefs.

The proper place for prayer (including church) is anywhere one desires. Jesus himself prayed in the wilderness. Those who signed the document have shown they can think for themselves and not playing the repulsive politically correct game. Not one bit of “doing the people’s work” suffered during the time these officials took to attend.

My hope is that each day they seek guidance from “above,” God directs them and they act upon his words. I’m sure Jesus would pray with our legislators anywhere, even in the State House. Now, if only Washington, D.C., would follow.

Edward Verbeke

Cary Plantation

Corporate voting rights

Now that the Supreme Court has assured us (in Citizens United) that corporations are citizens, and Gov. Romney has told us that corporations are people, I wonder how soon corporations will ask to vote (in addition to the votes they buy).

John McCarty

Brewer

A clear choice

Chris Johnson, the Democratic candidate for the special election on Feb. 14 in Senate District 20, has made his top campaign priority very clear. He is focused on people and problem solving, not forwarding a political agenda to re-elect an individual.

He knows tough decisions await him immediately upon arriving in Augusta. He is ready for those challenges and he will bring a strong understanding of the underlying economic and social issues. He genuinely cares about the people he will represent.

As reported by Village Soup, in his speech to win the Republican nomination for the special election, Dana Dow listed his three main campaign issues, one of which was to get Gov. LePage re-elected. This is February 2012. We will not hold an election for governor until November 2014, which over 2½ years from now.

In general, candidates dedicated to representing the people of their district do not make getting other individuals elected as one of their primary goals of service to their constituency.

Dana Dow has made the choice between the two candidates quite clear. A vote for him forwards Gov. LePage’s political agenda, regardless of whether it makes sense for the people of Senate District 20. Alternatively, a vote for Chris Johnson supports someone who puts people and the economy ahead of politics. Chris is experienced, knowledgeable and well-received by constituents. He listens to what residents say. These attributes will enable him to be a true representative of Senate District 20.

Consequently, I will vote for Mr. Chris Johnson.

Mick Devin

Newcastle

Stupid justice

Paul Violette pleaded guilty to theft of an obscene amount of money taken over the course of his being in charge of our Turnpike Authority. He is to make restitution of about one third of that illicit total; bonding companies are to spring for one third each of the remainder. A bit of jail time and then Paul will be good to go, case closed, happily ever after, a crescendo of Bach, fade out. Right?

Now hold on, not so quick. Paul’s to be allowed to collect his pension of how much?

In other words, we the tax and toll payers are going to pay him a pension of $155,000 a year for having stolen from us for 20 some-odd years? Plus, the bonding companies have the honor of picking up two-thirds of what he stole, which will cause an uptick in their rates-to-bond, which will cause a toll price increase, all so Paul will be warm and well fed for a few years and then come out to live on an unearned princely income which we, the stolen from, pay.

What has happened to justice? She’s meant to be just blind, not stupid.

Rick Fayen

Starks


Join the Conversation

157 Comments

  1. Edward Verbeke–No amount of prayer is going to solve the nuts and bolts issues that our legislators are hired to address.  I don’t pray when I am on the clock and I expect the same from those that I employ.       
    I’m pretty sure that Jesus would not vote to let our wealthiest citizens have more riches while denying succor to the needy in our midst.

    1. When I was in the Army I prayed a lot while “on the clock” (which is all the time, basically). That’s supported by tax dollars. Are you saying our soldiers shouldn’t be allowed to practice their religion? Oh, just kidding. I know this isn’t the issue, but it could be some day when your tax dollars is supporing something you don’t like… Oh wait.

      But, who cares if these stooges want to pray before the actual start of the work day? Most government offices don’t open until 9 AM, and they meet at their place of work with other people who do this VOLUNTARILY before the actual “clock-in” time when they start work. What’s the big deal? Is the simple act of praying somehow oppressing you? Get over yourself.

  2. You can’t pray the gay away. Just like you can’t pray for the misguided bigots to pipe down and stop giving all Catholics a bad name — I’ve tried.

      1. Is this like that DeVito/Schwarzenegger movie, “Twins”? When you make comments like this, it comes across as desperate…. 

      2. Then why does  god  keep making gay people when you and your bigoted religion clearly think your god hates gays?

      3. You should have told Rick Perry to pray to your god then. His prayers to his god didn’t stop the drought there.

      1. I’m not a gay person, so I’m not going to pretend to know every bit, large and small, of discrimination they face on a daily basis. However, I’d imagine one glaring example would be in filing their income taxes. Much more complicated (and more expensive) than for straight people. Something we take advantage of.

        1. A single straight and a single gay pay different rates?  Am I being discriminated in that I cant claim my sister as my wife for tax purposes?

          1. I meant partnered gay people. Also, I’m not going to play this game with you where you point to irrelevant and obnoxious phony analogies as a means of disproving discrimination. Until straight kids start getting bullied to death in schools, until they start getting kicked out of their homes for being straight, until pray the straight away camps start popping up, until people start screeching about straight marriage being taught in schools, etc. starts happening, I’m gonna go ahead and say that yes, gay people are subjected to quite a bit of discrimination and bigotry.

          2. Straight people DO get picked on and discriminated against. Sometimes because they’re overweight, sometimes because they have red hair, sometimes because they’re poor, sometimes because they believe in Jesus, sometimes because of their skin color, sometimes because they’re not as good looking, sometimes because they’re a nerd or gamer, sometimes because of the way they talk… Just about anything, really.

            People are mean to each other, no matter what the situation is. Homosexuals aren’t the only ones being picked on. The constant whining about not being able to pay the same tax rate that others do, is a valid argument, but that’s about the only valid argument you have. In fact, the whole tax bracket thing is illegal anyway, no income should be taxed… But since we live in a world of idiocy, the tax should be a flat rate that everyone pays, married or not. Then that would solve a junkload of problems and lighten the burden of the IRS and everyone else involved by a huge margin.

          3. Your first graph misses the mark.  The people you mention aren’t picked on because they are straight.  All of the groups listed could be gay, straight, bi…whatever. 

            How often are straight people picked on simply for being straight?  Not often, I’d guess.  

            A straight person doesn’t have a clue what it feels like to have to hide their orientation when walking in public with their partner.  The simple act of holding hands that straight couples take for granted very often results in ridicule…or worse…when a gay couple is seen doing it.

            It’s a very valid argument to anyone who takes the time to think about it.

          4. My point is, people get picked on for just about any reason under the sun. If it wasn’t because he or she was gay, it would because of any number of reasons. People find reasons to be mean. People go out of their way to be mean. I’ve been the victim of violence simply because of my skin color, and I’m white!

            And if you’re having problems with being able to show affection while in public, as a homosexual… Find a place you can? Or, don’t let it bother you, ya know, grow some thick skin? Throw some insults back at ’em? This is America, not some pansy nany-sta… Oh never mind. But as soon as anything gets thrown at you, or something of that sort, then by all means press charges. Throw the book at them. Let them feel it. But please, stop crying about it. I don’t care about your feelings, just so long as you’re not actually physically hurt.

          5. What is most unfortunate, is that the very last thing you wrote happens too often.  It’s sad that gay people have to have “thick skin” to be themselves in this homophobic society.

          6.  Yeah, and it’s too bad that I’ve had to endure racism, but it happens. Forgive and forget. Move on. You claim that “this society” is homophobic, but it depends where you live. Ellen doesn’t seem to have a problem with it, neither do all of her fans.

            But on the other side of things, just because people are uncomfortable with it or don’t want to see it, doesn’t mean they’re homophobic. It might not sit right with them, but that does not mean they hate anyone who is gay. It’s why people don’t pick their nose in public.

          7. Yeah, it does mean they’re homophobic when they’re uncomfortable with it or don’t want to see it. 

            Homophobia is not just about hate, it’s more than that.  It’s a range of negative feelings toward gay people…anywhere from not wanting to be around them to letting their rage out through violence. 

            By the way,  the comparison you made in the last sentence is really insulting, although it probably didn’t strike you that way when you wrote it.

          8. Be gay if it makes you happy, but don’t expect the city to throw you a
            parade because you’re gay. Or throw your own parade if it makes you
            happy, but don’t expect anyone to go to it. You’re a unique snowflake, but you’re still a snowflake just like all the other snowflakes.

            “Phobia” implies a “fear of,” which isn’t always the case. So what if I don’t want to spend my off-hours with people who are gay? Does it keep you up at night that the majority of people don’t approve of your lifestyle choices, or somehow don’t care *enough*? Grow up! Not everyone is going to like you. Just be comfortable with yourself, that’s all you should need.

          9. Be gay if it makes me happy?  I am gay, whether it makes me happy or not.    

            Ok, that sentence looks silly considering the dual meaning of “gay”, but you get my drift…

            By the way, feel free to be straight if it makes you happy.

  3. Edward Verbeke you are so so right. We need to put our country back on the right track before its too late, if it isn’t already. Things are so bad now that you’ll  be called an extremist for what you wrote. Sad whats happening.

  4. Brian Macfarland there are literally thousands that have successfully left the homosexual lifestyle, you just will never see it in print here.

    1. but they are still homosexuals, that are living a lie. As far as I know lying’s a sin also.
      as a footnote Calif. 9th circuit court, just found Prop. 8, to be unconstitutional! (;0

      1. Lying is a sin. Have you ever told a lie? If you have , that would make you a liar. Do you now go around telling everyone that lying is okay? Is lying okay because its in your genetic makeup to lie? Lying is now okay because you were a liar at a very young age. We are all predisposed to some sort of sin unique to our personalities. We don’t have to act on them. It is a choice we are all capable of making. The sooner we make that decision the easier it becomes to quench it before it becomes a full blown problem.  

        1. Lying hurts others.  In some cases it is illegal.  Being gay, doesn’t hurt you and it’s not illegal.  Try another metaphor. 

        2. I’m Left handed so I’m going to hell anyways, because my mother stopped my teachers from punishing for using my left hand.

      2. Everyone knows the 9th Circuit is a joke. And isn’t it possible that those living the homosexual lifestyle are the ones living a lie? Of course it is. 

        1. EJ my opinion or yours of the “joke” status of the 9th Circuit is irrelevant.

          You don’t even have to agree with the ruling. What you have to understand is the decision is based in the laws of the U.S. and the U.S. Constitution.

          1. The 9th Circuit overruled the will of the people. That used to be against the laws and the Constitution. This country is supposed to be ruled by the people, but instead is has been taken over by a bunch of radical judges that rule on emotion, personal agendas, and bad judgement. And most of them couldn’t care less about the US Constitution.

          2. You don’t get to take away someone’s rights simply because you don’t like them. That’s what is radical and unAmerican.

          3. “We the People  of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

            Were will I find in the U.S. Constitution a reference to the “will of the people” being the overriding law of the land EJ?

        2. Says the person who obviously didn’t read the opinion. The judgment hinged entirely on US Supreme Court case law. Is the Supreme Court a joke as well? I’ve come to learn that you’re never consistent, so the answer to my question is probably yes, but only when you don’t like what they say.

          1. The US Supreme Court is slowly turning into a joke, especially with the most recent appointees. The liberal judges have no respect for the Constitution, and that was proven the other day when Judge Ginsberg suggested that Egypt NOT use our Constitution as an example for their new constitution. That’s just pitiful.

          2. It is alarming how little you care about facts. Ginsburg made that comment because our Constitution did not initially include tenants of equality. Women, slaves, etc. were not afforded the rights they are afforded today. Your parroted talking points don’t work when placed in context, so just stop. And further, the answer to the question is that, no, you didn’t read the opinion and yes, everything you disagree with you dismiss as a joke. That’s pathetic. Laws need to serve legitimate purposes. If you’re going to single out a minority and remove rights from them (as Prop. 8 did), you need to have a real reason to do so. Mere disapproval is not enough to take away a person’s freedoms. For example, I believe you are a perpetual liar who should immediately stop spreading misinformation. However, that is not enough for me to take away your freedom of speech.

    2. How can they leave the gay lifestyle when they are genetically predetermine or ordained to be gay.  They simply have no choice as they are controlled by amino acids, hormones etc.

        1. There is no “proof” that being straight is a choice, either. But in either case, there is ample evidence that sexual orientation is biologically based.

        2. There is no straight gene either. There is no autism gene, no gene for many cancers etc. This is why the scientists work they are trying to find these genes. However, as it should be, there isnt a lot of money and research to find a gay gene because there is no reason to “cure it” as it isnt hurting anyone. 

          1. At the present time, there are no research projects looking for a gay gene or any other cause for the lifestyle. The search has been abandoned because even the gay community knows it is futile and a waste of time and money. 

            I, personally, have no problem if a person wants to life the gay lifestyle or any other alternative lifestyle. I am very tolerant of the rights of others. But, because of my beliefs and convictions, I cannot accept that the lifestyle is natural or moral, because, in my eyes, it is not. That said, I believe in ‘live and let live’ as long as I am not forced or mandated to accept or support something that I feel is immoral and unnatural. That’s why I do not, nor will I ever, support gay marriage or gays openly serving in the military. At the same time, I will continue to obey the commands of Christ and the Bible to reach out to the lost with the message of salvation and justification through the shed blood of Christ.

            By the way, the “cure” is Christ.

          2. “At the present time, there are no research projects looking for a gay gene…”

            What baloney.

            What you’re going to find, and what most scientists are realizing, is that no single gene causes a particular trait — whether we’re talking sexual orientation or body type. Certain genes predispose the holder of that gene to developing certain traits. And in some cases, several genes have to be present for a particular trait to be activated. It’s like a complex combination lock. Only recently did we finish mapping the human genome. Now we have to try to unlock the thousands upon thousands of combinations. That’s going to take a lot of time.

    3. Thousands, eh?   Got any references for that.  References besides the dopy religious clinics statistics.

  5. John McCarty
    You can only buy votes if someone is selling them.  Who is more at fault, the person offering a bribe or the person accepting.  Maybe your vote is for sale but not mine.  Maybe voters should have more integrity? 

  6. BRIAN,
    Homosexuality is a sin, and nothing more than a sin that one decides to indulge in,and yes the Bishop can help with that.

    JOHN,
    There was no fix for the dinosaur and there is no fix for the post office other than taking the same path as the dinosaur. Be merciful and let it go.

    EDWARD,
    Prayer is the only correct choice.

    MICK,
    Do you mean we have another ” Robem From The Hood ” democrat?

    RICK,
    Real justice is gone, and all that we’re left with is social justice.

    1. Eating shellfish is an abomination according to the Leviticus.  Amcon, have you sinned by eating lobster?

        1. Better tell Jesus this, because he said:

          “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them. I assure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest detail of God’s law will remain until its purpose is achieved.”

          1. In the Old Testament, there are three categories of laws. 1) Ceremonial laws related to Israel’s worship. 2) Civil laws dealing with daily life. And 3) Moral laws – those sent down from God in the form of the Ten Commandments. What Jesus was saying was that the moral laws, the Ten Commandments, must be followed, not the ceremonial or civil. You see, the ceremonial and civil laws were made by man and, in many areas, were direct abuses to the moral laws sent down by God, Himself. 

            Interesting note: Only 9 of the original Ten Commandments were mentioned directly by Christ. The one He conveniently left out concerned the Sabbath. 

          2.  He “conveniently” left it out?  That’s an odd choice of words. Do you think Jesus was being cagey?

          3. I think maybe He knew that some of us would declare Sunday as the Sabbath while others would remain with Saturday. 

          4. Jesus doesn’t refer specifically to the commandments. (In fact, he refers to the “law of Moses,” which is weird, considering that the laws were supposedly God’s.) He refers to the laws Moses conveyed to the people. There were a lot more than the commandments.

            Also, you foolishly claim that the ceremonial laws were created by man. No they weren’t. God dictates throughout the Bible how ceremonies are supposed to be carried out.

          1. The New Testament refers to slaves in different ways. It refers directly to treatment of slaves, slaves responsibility to the master, being enslaved to sin, and acting as a slave in the service of Christ. 

            The New Testament deals with homosexuality in one way only, and that is with condemnation of the lifestyle. But in 1 Corinthians 6:11 it gives a way out of the lifestyle through sanctification and justification in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

          2. Do you long for a return to slavery, since the New Testament supports the institution?  Would it drive down your labor costs?

          3. Selective interpretation of the New Testament gets you nowhere, nor does an ad hominem attack.  
              The New Testament supports slavery far more often than it opposes homosexuality.  As recently as the 19th Century, the South turned to the Bible to justify the enslavement of African-Americans.  It did so even after the Civil War.
              You may thump the Bible.  I read it as a work of history, myth, and philosophy.  

          4.  I don’t think the bible supports slavery, so much as it talks about it. There were quite a few people who, under the abolition movement, used bible verse to condemn slavery.

            In fact the book of Revelation says that when Babylon The Great is destroyed, people afar off will mourn her destruction. One of the things mentioned that is destroyed with “Mystery Babylon” is slavery, to which the holy ones rejoice over. In the OT it says that every seven years, if you did own any slaves, you’re supposed to set them free.

          5. EJ’s post points out ways in which the New Testament supports slavery.  Your quarrel is with him.  He states that the New Testament discusses “treatment of slaves” and a “slaves (sic) responsibility to the master.”   Ask EJ to give you his cites. 

          6. You said “The New Testament supports slavery far more often than it opposes homosexuality.” That is what I was replying to, specifically. Oh and the part about slavery and the American Civil War. You mentioned those, not EJ.

          7. Read Ephesians 6:5 and Timothy 6:1-2.  As to the Old Testament,  Leviticus 25:44-46 and Exodus 21:7-11.  Freeing slaves every seven years was limited to Hebrew slaves. 

          8. It’s prophecy, a shadow of things to come. It’s a parallel to being a servant of God, and receiving the “seal” upon the forehead that is talked about in Revelation. “… and he shall serve him for ever.” – Can’t serve flesh and blood forever.

          9. Perhaps Revelations is simply a nightmare that John experienced and mistook for something of substance.

          10. In reply to chenard (trying to save space so it’s readable).

            Perhaps not. When it talks about the whole world being under the control of one system, which is Satan’s doing, and I see people vying for a one-world government, currency, religion, etc. it seems to me to go beyond just mere coincidence. But don’t be surprised when it does happen, you were warned it would.

        2. You must be one of those wishy-washy liberals who chooses what parts of the Bible he accepts and what parts he denies.  I had thought every Christian respected the Ten Commandments!  Which of the Ten do you disavow, since you don’t “live by the Old Testament.”

          1. Which Commandments are optional to you, since you disavow the Old Testament?  Since you embrace the New Testament, do you embrace its acceptance of slavery?

          2. E.J. is a liberal for a man of the second century.  Do you think he longs for a return to slavery?  It would surely drive down labor costs.

        1. All shellfish is an abomination as it has neither fins nor scales.  Once we put the lobstermen,  scallopers and clam diggers out of work, we may be able to buy them as slaves, per Leviticus, if they are not of our nation or tribe.  

    2. Dear God Please set amcon straight on who gets the right to judge because he seems to think he should have your job.

    3. So is casting the first stone. Please follow Jesus and be kind. You can inform the sinner of his sin but cannot condemn him for it. The Bible talks about sin in so many things that we know are not really a sin. Why choose homosexuality to fight? Why condemn lesbians when the Bible only identifies men? Why does the Bible only talk about men? There are so many questions. There must be something else more along the lines of what Christ wanted for you to fight about. 

      1. Romans 1:26 refers to women engaged in unnatural sexual acts. Whether or not these acts include lesbian acts is up for interpretation, but unnatural is quite an inclusive word.

        By the way, the accepted method of writing at that time was to write from a male perspective. 

      2. I believe that the Bible, fines male homosexuality a sin, because of the spilling/wasting of the seed/sperm. That is the reasoning behind the sin of masturbation, every sperm wasted was a new life not formed.

        1. The wasted sperm reference is not in the Bible anywhere. It was made up to keep young people from masturbating. 

  7. Once again we see the ridiculous contention that sexual orientation is a clear choice that can be changed. As is always pointed out, why would anyone choose to be gay, given the discrimination against gays, as with a couple of these replies? Bishop Malone should spend more time worrying about his priests who destroy the innocence of children, male and female alike, and not on gay Catholics who are not priests. We still await word on him condemning the bishops of the U.S., Ireland, and other lands where bishops and even cardinals looked away and/or transferred child molesters to other parishes. But it’s so much easier to remain silent and to resume his passionate opposition to gay marriage in Maine.

    1. Since one chooses one religion and Bishop Malone seems to endorse discrimination against gays because of their “choice,” should we now discriminate against Catholics or any other religion or non-religion?

      1. The Catholic Church as an entity has a short memory. In the early history of this country and right up through the early 1900s Catholics were banned from some states, Massachusetts  being one, and the Irish in particular were discriminated against because most were Catholic. Perhaps the BDN could do a series of stories on that history and compare it to the Catholic church’s attitudes today. Just a suggestion….

        1. That the Catholic Bishops would ally themselves with the Republican Party is, itself, an example that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.  One of the three parties that joined in 1856 to form the Republican Party was the American or Know Nothing Party.  It was virulently anti-Catholic.

          1.  Sort of like the virulent anti catholicism in the healthcare bill?  That sounds like a good reason to abandon the Democrats.

          2. Let’s see, the Know Nothings wanted to exclude and even deport Catholics, tarred and feathered a priest, John Bapst, in Ellsworth, and burned a Catholic church in Bath.  
              The healthcare bill would require a religiously affiliated institution that provides services that are traditionally secular,  like St. Joseph Hospital, to offer an insurance policy that covers birth control prescriptions at no additional costs to the employees, most of whom are non-Catholic.   98% of American Catholic women have used birth control at some point in their lives, despite the Bishops’ protests.  
              No such insurance requirement would be imposed on a Catholic seminary or on the Church itself for its priests or nuns.  
              Do I sense a false analogy, Cheesecake?  

          3. Lets see. It appears that is all pretty ancient history.

            Today the assault on the Catholic Church (and religions in general) comes from the left in the form of that healthcare bill. It now determines what the Catholic church can and can not do. It is an infringement by the government on the rights of a religion. It matters not one  how many Catholics use birth control.  Do I sense a blind spot, chenard?

          4. You are woefully misinformed and shamefully spreading false information, again.  The health care bill doesn’t infringe on anyone’s religious rights in the least.

          5.  This from the Constitutional scholar that claimed that document barred a citizen from making voting decisions based on a candidates religion.

          6. And Cheesecake, who is it who drew the comparison between the virulent anti-Catholicism of the Know Nothings and the alleged virulent anti-Catholicism of the healthcare bill?      
              Asking a church-run hospital to buy a certain type of insurance policy is no different than asking that same hospital to pay into the unemployment system, the social security system, or the Medicare system.  The decision of whether to use birth control is left to the individual employee.  A religion should rely on moral suasion to convince its parishioners not to use birth control.  
              Being called blind by you is akin to being accused of marital infidelity  by Newt Gingrich.

          7.  Except now the US government is delving into religious convictions, a place where governments in the past dared not tread. What closely held personal convictions are next on the chopping block?

          8. Abolition of polygamy was a precondition to Utah’s admission to the Union.  The government has always been able to regulate conduct, but cannot regulate belief.    Learn your history.

          9. So you are saying that the government is indeed free to regulate religion including what these religions do with their money? Is that your position?

          10. Do not set up a strawman.    The US Supreme Court has consistently said that facially neutral statutes that affect the conduct of all Americans are generally permissible under the First Amendment.  Statutes that compel belief or punish belief are not. 
              In the 1940s West Virginia tried to compel students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.  Ultimately, the Court held that statute to be unconstitutional when a Jehovah’s Witness father challenged it.    It amounted to compelled belief.  The Jehovah’s Witnesses also challenged an Ohio law that barred door-to-door solicitation.  The Court held that time restrictions were permissible but an outright ban was not.  
              The government cannot compel someone to take contraceptives, but making health insurance policies provide a basic set of benefits would survive any legal challenge unless it were applied to a wholly religious entity, such as a seminary.  This is basic law that even Scalia would not contest.   

          11. The issue is not the conduct of individuals and how they express their religion but government mandates placed on that religion. It has nothing to do, in my opinion, with contraception per se but on government placing mandates on the religion for them to perform against the tenets of their own religion. It places the Church against itself. The US government is not in the religion business and should stay out of it.

          12. Some religions embrace the use of marijuana, yet the government outlaws its use.  The choice to access free contraceptive coverage is made by the employee of the Catholic hospital, who, more often than not, is not even a Catholic.  A few old men want to tell their employees they can’t access contraception and you support that right.  Get real.  

          13. Again, The point is that you are telling a religion what it must do with their own money, even if what they do with it is against the basic tenants of the religion. You deflect by slurring my point to prohibition of activity of individuals. It isn’t that at all.I don’t care about contraception but the act of government interference in religion itself.

            Condensed, You favor government interference in religion and what that religion must do with its own money and which dictates of that religion can be followed and which can’t. Big slippery slope this.

          14. Catholic-run hospitals are told by the government that they must spend their money on unemployment insurance, the employer contributions to Medicare and Social Security, etc.  This distinction has been drawn for more than 50 years between the activities of a church and a church-related entity that performs services that are seen as secular.  St. Joseph Hospital is the functional equivalent of EMMC.  
              Here, not a penny more is spent, as an insurance policy that covers dollar one of contraceptive coverage costs less in the long run than one which doesn’t (100 women taking the pill costs less than one woman going through an unexpected  full-term delivery). 
              We are saving the Hospital money, decreasing the risk of unwanted pregnancies, empowering women to make a personal choice without the burden of one choice (contraception) being funded and the other (pregnancy), not.  
              We are upsetting some Troglodyte Bishops who want to discourage even the Hospital’s non-Catholic employees from having a cost-neutral choice about family planning.
              Nothing in the regulations would require the health care plan that covers the Bishops, priests, nuns, or seminary instructors to include contraception costs.
              Let’s say I start a new religion called Cheesecakism in which Bishop Cheesecake buys burqas for all his female parishioners.  Bishop Cheesecake goes down to the burqa store and is told that he must pay a 5% sales tax on the burqas.  He protests that the government cannot tell the Cheesecake Church how to spend its money.  In making such a claim, Bishop Cheesecake would be full of something other than cheesecake.
              

          15. Totally irrelevant argument that does not even address the point. Unemployment insurance  does not set up an internal conflict in the Church. Setting up mandated religion doctrines does.

          16. Bishop Cheesecake, your cries of “irrelevancy” are seen by our readers as an admission that you have lost the argument.  Nothing about expanding a St. Joseph Hospital employee’s choice in any way forces these Troglodyte Bishops to think or speak any differently.  They simply lose the ability to financially burden an employee’s unfettered choice.

          17. Wrong again.  I am a former Goldwater Girl who has seen her party go insane.  I was Fausto on these pages when you were Vichet.  I am also a businessperson who sees that the economy thrives under Democrats and underperforms or tanks under Republicans.  Henry Ford was right: you have to pay your employees enough so that they can buy the cars that they build. 

          18. No way. You can’t pull that nonsense, any more than I can say the Democrat party of 1856 was pro-slavery so black Americans today should disassociate from the Democratic party. Parties change, evolve.
            Catholic moral theology is tailor-made for the Republican party. But its Social Justice theology is more comfortable in the Democratic party. This Catholic votes Republican, because I happen to strongly believe the church is wrong in allying with government to achieve social aims. 

          19. A percentage of your party exhibits opinions that harken back to the Know Nothing days: (i) the insistence for several years by a majority of Republicans that Obama was born in Kenya reflected the same nativist sentiment as the Know Nothings; (ii) the desire by many in your party to deport all 11 million undocumented immigrants and the booing of Rick Perry for his qualified support of a Dream Act analog in Texas smacks of Know Nothing nativism; (iii) Gingrich’s characterization of President Obama as the “Food Stamp President” seeks to rouse the racist echoes of the Know Nothings (George W. Bush actually had more people enroll for food stamps during his presidency and food stamp rolls are now declining as the economy recovers); and (iv) the celebration of Herman Cain for saying he would not have a Muslim serve in his cabinet reflects a religious bigotry among too many Republicans.
              Bill Buckley said a good conservative should criticize the crazed element of his party and Buckley surely condemned the Birchers.  I see no Republican doing the same today.  As your party plunges ever rightward, I am sitting back wondering when, lemming-like, it will go off the cliff.  In fairness to lemmings, they are not actually cliff-divers, but I am not sure when your party’s rightward plunge will end.  I hope someone is standing at the bottom of the cliff to pick up the pieces.    

          20. The discussion was whether today’s Republican Party shared anything with its Know Nothing roots from 1856.  I pointed out five ways in which it did.  I am precisely on point.  

          21.  Your problem is that you see the political spectrum as “right” and “left” with Republicans on the “right” and Democrats on the “left.” Where does anarchy fit into that spectrum? Where does totalitarianism fit in there? The two extremes do not go anywhere on that political scale.

            A type of political spectrum that accurately shows where a political party or ideology sits at would be one that goes from “complete government control” (totalitarian) to “no government control” (anarchy).

            The contention is that the Democrats want government controls to work “this” way while Republicans want government controls to work “that” way. Both are for, essentially, more government, bigger government. The problem with that idea is, that government can somehow solve every problem, is a bad idea. What happens when your party passes laws you like, then the other party wins the seats and uses that same legislation against you? Because that is what is happening today. There’s no difference in the majority of Republicans or Democrats that are in office, they just want more control.

          22. I do not see the political spectrum as linear or even circular, but three dimensional.  However, the narrow choice of parties we have in this country is roughly linear.   
               Government action to  expand the right to vote or to provide a basic safety net is not government control.  Expanding the right to vote diminishes control by the former elite and establishing the safety net frees people from the fear of want.  Ultimately, the question between the right and the left in America is whether the traditional holders of power, Wall Street elites, must be more responsive to the popular will.  The Republicans have sided with Wall Street without reservation.  The Democrats have tried to temper Wall Street’s excesses.   

          23. The banks were bailed out under Bush with not a single restriction on future bank behavior.  President Obama bailed out the auto companies with a host of restrictions that have worked to make the industry thrive.  Solyndra was first funded under Bush.  The GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.  Some  Democrats are leased by Wall Street.  

  8. Paul LePage is the least Christ-like politician to ever live in the Blaine House.

    His piety is a joke and God does not hear his insincere prayers.

    Nossuh

    1. LePage has struck me as being a lot more like the pharisees: all about demonstrating his religiosity and unconcerned about the money-changers in the temple of our democracy.

  9. You want up to take over the post offices  ??  To mail a letter from Waterville to  Portland would cost $11:35  to mail a letter to San Francisco would cost  $13:25 . Now if you have Up come to your house to pick up the letter it will cost even more.  To mail a 2lb book to Portland it will cost you $11:90 to mail that same book to  San Francisco would cost you  $14:75 Now the post office charges i believe  46 or 47 cents to mail a letter any were in the usa an they will pick it up at your mail box.  Now you can mail a 2lb book any were in the usa at the book rate for $ 2:89 it could take up to 2 wks to mail it to the west coast.  These prices are right because i went to UP an the post office on monday the 6th of feb.

  10. Edward…Jesus MAY have prayed in the wilderness…but he didn’t pray in the Legislature. Please keep to yourself your narrow minded belief that there is one god, one jesus, and that you happen to know exactly what each wanted and believed in…CUZ YA DON’T

  11. And will you people stop it with the “USPS is only in trouble because it has to pre-fund health care to the tune of 5 billion a year”????? No No No No NO!!!! The USPS is in trouble because YOU PEOPLE (and I), DON’T SEND LETTERS ANYMORE!!!

    What do you get for “letters” these days? You get junk mail, flyers, and bills. That’s just about it. We communicate in a different fashion than we did 30 (or even 10), years ago.

    The USPS will soon be bleeding a few billion a year…and that would eat up your “stop pre-funding” claim REAL QUICK.

    Sorry folks, unless we all decide to go letter writing nuts (and we won’t), the USPS needs to cut back to five day a week delivery, needs to close obsolete stations, needs to start (sorry), laying off people, and the U.S. Government needs to remove the ban on Fed Ex and UPS delivery of non-priority letters.

  12. John McCarty, good point. Although I think they get to vote more often than we do throught their bought and paid for Congressmen and Senators.

  13. Are you really surprised by the Violette situation?  Only in state and federal public sector jobs can something so unbelievably stupid and wasteful be allowed to happen.  In the private sector he would be entitled to none of the benefits that he is getting from taxpayers after stealing from us for years.  The honorable thing to do would be to refuse to take the pension and pay back full restitution, but we already know that there is no honor in that scum-bag. Is anyone really surprised that so many of us are happy that some in Augusta are finally starting to look more closely at some of these agencies and how they conduct their “business”? It is about freakin’ time someone started holding these agencies accountable!

    1. What I find disturbing is of all the posts – the least talked about is theft by Violette.  Ya got your religion bashing, gay bashing, PO bashing – but doesn’t appear too many people are upset over theft of OUR MONEY.  Frank – my proposal a while ago was an audit of all government institutions by an independent, unbiased, untouchable forensic accounting team (Switzerland comes to mind).  Think of all the money they’ll find – they can be paid 50% of the amount they save for two years – the other 50% saved goes back into the budget.

  14. quite hypocritical that a pro muslim story cites the fact that being a gay is a sin in that religion and there are no comments, any christian reference brings out the usual commentary. 

    1. skull there were close to 211 comments on “‘Quran: Learn It or Burn It?’ draws 200 to Orono mosque Saturday” many of which revolved around the “homosexual is a sin” comment.

      But here is the major difference. I haven’t met one person of the Muslim faith that has openly lied about SSM. I cannot say the same thing about the Christian faith.

      1. Homosexuality isn’t a sin in Islam (but it is). Women are for reproducing and men are for fun “over there,” no joke. According to them, it’s only homosexuality if you’re in a long-term relationship (or married), which makes it a sin. But if it’s a weekend fling, or something, you’re okay!

        So technically, your friend wasn’t lying to you… But then again, he was.

        Plus, the odds that a Muslim will lie to you vs a Christian lying to you, depends on the sample pool. How many people do you know that are Muslim vs how many are Christian? Is this some sort of scientific study you’ve done? I’d like to see your statistics, your proof.
        (Kidding… Kinda).

        1. Your right about, some Muslim men, when our son was stationed in Qatar, he was told the same thing.  What makes some Christians liars is that they feel the same way about the men are for fun thing, but they won’t own it.

          1.  They’re not Christians if they express that view. Yes, it’s a sin, but all sin is forgivable… Except one, and it’s “blasphemy of the Holy Ghost” which I myself quite do not understand, so my guess is only a very few can even commit this particular sin. But that’s not the point, is it?

  15. Verbeke,

    The place for prayer is in your imagination, which is where all religion resides. 

    “Vote the Bible.”  ??  That makes zero sense. 

    Might as well believe in the tooth fairy. 

  16. “A Call to Prayer for Maine” by Landslide LePage is very appropriate because what he is doing to the state can only remedied by God. 

  17. What I wrote, was my interpretation of what the Bible says, and your right EJ people make stuff up all the time to keep people from doing things. Just like those who wrote God’s laws, to put fear in people, and keep them from doing what they felt was wrong.  It’s all about control EJ, controlling things that you have fear of, things you find unnatural, the world is full unnatural things.

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