Comments for: Wednesday, Jan. 4, 2012: Raw milk, Mother Earth and alcoholism

Posted Jan. 03, 2012, at 12:17 p.m.
Last modified Jan. 10, 2012, at 1:41 p.m.

Risky business I thought the BDN’s recent poll question, “Should Maine farmers be allowed to sell directly to consumers?” was poorly worded considering farmer Dan Brown’s dispute with the state isn’t about whether he can sell raw milk directly to consumers, but whether he can sell raw milk that hasn’t …

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  • kcjonez

    Earle M. Rafuse–I doubt if you will find much argument about our public schools food buying procedures being held to a higher standard, but Farmer Brown is only selling to his friends and neighbors.  The FDA should focus their limited resources on the malfeasance of the mega corporations where they will most serve to fulfill their mission–protecting the general public–not on making life difficult for Farmer Brown.   

    • Guest

      In order for the FDA to be able to focus on those evil horrible corporations then we should ban Farmer Brown from selling locally without any oversight.  As you suggest, it doesn’t sound like we can do both.

  • kcjonez

    Tony Gonzales–I like your idea of drug testing our elected representatives.  Their actions are much more critical to our fiscal and general well being than welfare recipients and, no offense, truck drivers.  They also have cadillac insurance policies which will cover all the necessary detox and rehab services they need to come clean, something not available to all without major expense.  It could inject some small measure of humility in a few who think they are better than the “hoi polloi”, and best of all–it would provide great entertainment value when the results came in.

  • Anonymous

    Earle–I think the only approval a farmer needs to sell his milk to a private individual is that of the individual. Slapping a state inspection sticker on the dairy door and charging the farmer a prohibitive fee will not make the milk any safer. Farmer Brown would not be facing any charges if he gave his milk away for nothing. How does the fact that someone pays money for the product suddenly make it unsafe in the state’s eyes?

    • Guest

      because the money is going in someone else’s cash register NOT theirs.
      The state and many professions will SCREAM it’s unsafe if the cash is going in the” wrong” register. The public should educate themselves of the truth when it comes to stuff like this……….all it usually means is that the one tooting the horn has the most money and usually NOT the truth!!!

      • Anonymous

        Yup, the state is always screaming foul if they think that there would be money going to someone other than themselves. Not just with this issue but with a host of others.

      • Anonymous

        And how much money are we talking about?  Not that much for a safe milk license, is it?  Hardly a way for anyone in the “State” to get rich.  But guess who’s liable if there’s a contamination problem?

      • Anonymous

        and if there is a contamination problem who pays?

  • Anonymous

    Good letters all.

  • Anonymous

    Jackie Freitas – You’ve been lied to so many times that you actually believe the lies. Wake up, do some research, and you’ll find out the liars are on the left…. and they’re relying on your gullibility. 

    Tony Gonzales – I agree. Anyone that receives ANY amount of taxpayers money should be required to submit to a drug test and be subject to random drug tests as long as they are receiving government money. And that included ALL elected officials.

    • Guest

      Now EJ will lie to you a little bit more, it’s what he does best!

      • Anonymous

        I’ve been watching a lot of CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC and CNBC lately just to get a better perspective on the media sources that so many in this nation rely on. It’s truly amazing what some of their hosts get away with. The blatant direct lies and twisting is so obvious that it’s sad that anyone would believe their tripe. And their gang-mentality and hatred of the right is damaging to the moral fabric of this nation. 

        Of course, no network is perfect. No network is 100% truthful. But there are some pretty pathetic sources that people tune into on several of the networks I listed above. 

        Finally, I don’t lie.

        • Anonymous

          You guys lie daily but still tell us your Christian. I don’t believe Christians should conduct themselves the way your side does. You will never believe it but FOX is #1 in dishonest broadcasting.

          • Anonymous

            It’s one thing to say that Fox is dishonest — I think that their ad slogan, “fair and balanced,” is a pretty funny joke.  It’s another thing for us to call one another “liar” directly on these pages.  Let’s not do that, even if we think it is true.  Let’s keep our dialogue civil. 

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for your concerns. Unfortunately the amount of lies, misrepresentations and spin thrown about by GOP cheerleaders here requires that they be called out for their actions. 

          • Anonymous

            The problem is that you never “call” anyone out; you just call them liars. 

          • Anonymous

            I call a spade a spade and back it up with facts.

          • Anonymous

            Have you read the posts from those that have the appearance of bending the truth to suit their ultra conservative beliefs?   It’s not those of us that use the word liar that are uncivil.

      • Anonymous

        We should all be careful about calling someone a liar — many people say incorrect things they believe are true.  Let’s give the other side the benefit of the doubt, that their intentions are good.

        • Anonymous

          Willful ignorance does not represent good intentions.

    • Anonymous

      Jackie don’t believe a word this guy says. GOP cheerleaders lie and misrepresent every single day on these boards. EJ is one of those cheerleaders…poorly informed, repeats what they hear on FOX so are usually short on facts and long on spin and rhetoric.

      • Anonymous

        Note that EJP tends to be absolutist about almost everything.  And if you don’t agree with him (and his sources) you’re a liar.  And it’s usually political polarization even if it isn’t really.

        • Anonymous

          I totally agreed with EJ and Amcon once. With the result that we all were wrong.

      • Anonymous

        Same goes for amconservative.  He / she too uses totally twisted logic of onesided made up ‘facts’.   Case in point: his bashing of the EPA.  Never once has he acknowledged Pres. Bush’s and VP Cheney’s leading us into an unfunded unjustifiable war that put us over a trillion $ in debt while Cheney’s Haliburton walked with over 800 billion in profits.  Instead, he’s worried that the EPA is causing our demise and our economic woes.  An attempt to keep our environment clean and livable is instead the culprit.  Fox “News” is anti american.

    • Anonymous

      Unless, of course, they are liberal democrats.

    • And we agree again!

    • Jackie: The line IS in the sand and the time is now to stop this regurgitation of regulatory unraveling by the ravagers of the Earth.

      • Anonymous

        You seem to have swallowed Jackie Freitas’s line that the Republican party is attempting to dissolve Environmental Protection Agency rules and regulations. Neither she nor you have given an example of such an effort. Would you be willing to state one specifically the party has proposed and how that proposal will endanger the environment?

        • Anonymous

          Crazy Republicans like Ron Paul, FOX news broadcasters, and others are advocating that EPA be eliminated. You know the fools that think it’s OK to rape the Earth right now as long as someone is making money.

          • Anonymous

            You are wrongly assuming Republicans and others want EPA oversight to be abandoned. What in fact they want is to see this oversight managed by other federal agencies including the individual states in the Union. To say they support the raping of the Earth is another liberal lie intended to create fear and apprehension.

          • Anonymous

            Oh really. Just name one natural resource on God’s great Earth that we have that the GOP wants to conserve for future generations instead of making a buck right now. Do you even know the type of  people you support and their priorities or do you blindly just repeat everything the right wing tells you?

          • Anonymous

            Yes, the GOP wants to conserve the wind. Want me to name another natural resource? How about sunlight? That very important resource becomes precious during long periods of darkness and gloom. More seriously, have you ever gone camping and canoeing with Republicans? The all enjoy nature.

    • Anonymous

      EJ, I’ve been suggesting to people who I tend to agree with that they should not call you a liar — I think it’s childish and disrespectful and that it violates the code of ethics on these pages.  Yet I notice that you are the one who started it here by your comments about “lies” and “the liars on the left.”  Could we avoid calling others liars?  We should be able to disagree without being childish and uncivil to one another.

      • Anonymous

        I was referring to the left-wing media, not anyone on these comment threads.

  • Jackie Freitas,

    “Mother earth” will be here long after we’re gone. It is, after all, survival of the fittest, no?

    • luvGSD

      Not sure I follow your logic.  “Survival of the fittest” refers to organisms that are the most prolific breeders.  Is that the future you envision, our planet overrun with insects, viruses and bacteria?

      • It kinda already is. Ants alone when you compare biomass outweigh humans by a large margin.

  • Anonymous

    Jackie Freitas…I believe you are wrong on a couple of points. First The Environmental Protection agency is only supposed to be involved in interstate matters, not state matters. Second, the EPA is rulemaking beyond the authority which Congress extended to it. Third, there needs to be a balance between the economy and the environment. Environmentalists  appear only to look at the save the planet aspect and not integrated solutions which will both protect the environment and facilitate a robust economy. The more restrictions that are put in place the more in debt our country will be driven. You need to look at the environment from a global perspective relative to an economic perspective. If China and India can willy nilly do what they please and ignore environmental protection then they will thrive economically and the US will be relegated to third world status. All countries need to play by the same environmental rules to level the economic playing field and protect the environment.  If you are set on protecting your own backyard change will not occur, our kids will not have an American dream. If you cling to a tree while the flood waters are rising around you what will you have gained?

    • Guest

      You make sense but it will fall on deaf ears incapable of hearing anything beyond the sirens of Mother Earth

  • Guest

    Farmers should be able to sell raw milk that has been tested for bacteria……………raw milk has many benefits. The milk in the stores is a waste of money, but our government folks will lead you to believe differently.

    • Anonymous

      Except for the Vitamin D in store bought milk, very important in these northern latitudes, especially for the younger and older.

    • Anonymous

      Tested, yes, but the milk needs to PASS the test!

      • Anonymous

        Well, of course.  That’s the point of the test, isn’t it? :-)

    • Anonymous

      No problem with tested milk. I don’t worry about individual small time farmers, but if we back off on the regulations, big milk producing operations will eventually get someone sick.

  • Anonymous

    JACKIE,
    It is the EPA that must be stopped and disbanded. They are one of the many liberal causes adding to our countries economic demise.

    JAMES,
    How about this philosophy ” Dependent upon oneself “, and if that fails then family and friends are next, but the taxpayer should be the very last resort.

    PETER,
    You are correct, and I agree with your assessment of the letter. The trooper either took a breath test or didn’t. If he did then he showed intoxicated and should be fired, and if he refused the test, then he should be fired. Either way he needs to be changing professions and doing it now.

    TONY,
    Not only should welfare recipients be RANDOMLY drug tested each year, but they should have to pay for the test as do those in the private sector.

    • Anonymous

      Please look up drug testing the welfare recipients. It has been done in two states, and then stopped. One they were not catching anyone and two it was costing why to much. In floridia for example it cost move then it saved. You cheer lead because it sounds so great, but in practice its really not. What you are assuming is that most of the people on welfare are drug users, or bad people which is not the case. Since when do you have to pay for a drug test in the private sector? I certainly did not. Nor did any I work with, Nor has my Dad ever. Welfare reciepents are about 95% hard working people.

      • Anonymous

        “95% hard working people”? Hardly. I’ve work with poverty level people for many, many years. I’d say that about half of them are hard working, and that’s the older poor folk. Many of the younger welfare recipients have their hands out, and their hands have no calluses (sp?). And I’m taking about people in their 30s and 40s that have been on welfare all of their lives. 

        Times have changed. Far too many in this country are fully dependent on the government, and many of those believe that’s their right. Just like that unruly adult child that’s dragging down the whole family, it’s time to cut the cord.  

      • Guest

        Can you substantiate that 95% are hard working as my stats show they are generally lazy and useless?

  • Anonymous

    Jackie Freitas

     When I read an idealogical rant about money like yours, I always hark back to my (short lived) young idealogical days when, in a discussion with a grizzled “old” (I thought at the time) pulp cutter I said “money isn’t everything”.
     His response was that indeed, “money wasn’t everything, but it’s awful nice when you want to ride the train”.

  • Anonymous

    Come on Tony…Elected officials are above the law…no matter the party or the issue. How are we going to continue us to do as they say not as they do if you keep writing letters like this calling them out as though something is wrong with that mentality. Sheesh…Pretty soon you’ll start yammering about how we’re all equal or some other crazy notion…

  • Anonymous

    Tony- I think drug testing of public officials is a great idea. The author Carl Hiasson offered to pay for drug tests for the entire Florida legislature when they passed the law requiring welfare recipients to take one. They all respectfully declined. Can we all say referendum? I would like them to go one step further and give I.Q. tests as well. Anyone who does not meet the average of 100 should not be representing anyone.

    • Anonymous

      IQ tests?? You do realize that a large percentage of the mentally ill have pretty high IQ’s.

      I will go along with drug testing all elected, law enforcement, DHHS, teachers, medical, etc., along with welfare recipients for drug use.

      • Anonymous

        Oh come now! You know perfectly well what I am driving at. We should have a right to expect that the people who speak for us in Washington and Augusta have at least an average level of intelligence. I am convinced that there would be a lot of job vacancies if they were applied. They recently got together in Washington and gave the communist Chinese a grant for economic and social development for $17.4 million. Bear in mind that this is a country we owe over $1 trillion. Guess where we got the money for the grant? We borrowed it from CHINA!!! You tell me if we need I.Q. testing or not.

        • Anonymous

          Inteligence and greed have nothing in common.

          • Anonymous

            The truest words ever spoken.

            ——————————

          • Anonymous

            In government, intelligence and wisdom have nothing in common.

          • Anonymous

            another lie

          • Anonymous

            Let’s be careful — I don’t like calling someone a liar, even if I may disagree with them.  We can have honest disagreements.
            By the way, I don’t even know what EJ meant by that.

          • Anonymous

            It means that one can have a boat load of intelligence, but if he or she has no wisdom, the intelligence is worthless. Much of those in DC claim to be book smart, but display no wisdom when it comes to using their intelligence. 

            And you don’t have to worry about TCFTR; not worth the time.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, I agree with the difference between wisdom and intelligence — I know several very smart people who are not wise.  Bill Clinton was one of our smartest presidents, and did some of the stupidist things.  I’ll bet you and I can agree about that!
            Now, can we avoid the childish term, “liar”?

          • Anonymous

            Bill Clinton was a master politician. He kicked up his heels on a lot of issues, but when the American people spoke, he listened. That’s how he got a second term. Obama could learn a lot from old Mr. Bill.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, I agree Bill Clinton was smart, and a master politician.  He knew what he needed to do to win a second term — it almost came naturally to him.  And as you might expect, I agreed with much of what he did as president.
            When I say that he didn’t show wisdom, but behaved stupidly, I am referring to his selfish and disrespectful behavior toward so many women, including his wife — and, as bad as that was, the worst of all was his lie under oath.  I don’t let him off the hook just because he’s a Democrat, EJ.  I know you let Herman Cain off the hook, but that’s up to you.  I believe we should hold all of these guys responsible for their behavior, regardless of their party affiliation.
            Bill Clinton was a liar, under oath. I think that’s an established fact, just as it is established that Nixon covered up (and probably approved of) the Watergate break-in. But let’s not call each other “liar” on these pages, EJ. It’s childish. Let’s be civil in our disagreements.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry, but I don’t remember letting Herman Cain off the hook. And I don’t remember him ever being convicted as guilty concerning the accusations that have, for some odd reason, gone away. Seems to me that it was nothing more than a plot to get him out of the race, and it worked. But, then, of course it worked. When one is a Republican, one is guilty until proven innocent. 

            And I wasn’t calling anyone on these pages a liar. I was referring to the left wing media.

          • Anonymous

            I agree that I didn’t see you calling anyone on these pages a liar — and I criticized those who called you a liar for saying that the “left-wing” (by which you must mean Pacifica Radio, Mother Jones and the Nation magazine) media are liars.  You were the first to use the term “liar,” and the others were responding to you in kind.  I don’t like that word either way, but it is worse when we point that word directly at one another.  I think the Murdoch Media are often deliberately misleading, but I don’t like to use such a harsh word as “liar.”
            Of course you let Herman Cain off the hook — and you’re still doing it when you say that the accusations “have, for some odd reason, gone away. Seems to me that it was nothing more than a plot to get him out of the race…”  (the accusations haven’t gone away — they’re just not in the national spotlight because Cain is out of the spotlight, too.)
            So you dismiss what several unrelated women said about the way Cain abused them or broke his marital vows, and you hint that the women were — what, lying? — in order to derail an honest, upstanding man who would never do anything untoward.  That’s letting him off the hook. 
            Cain had all the motive in the world to lie.  The several women who came forward didn’t want to see the slimeball who had molested them get elected president.  You are unwilling to see the truth even when it is obvious.

          • Anonymous

            Just did a search on Cains sexual allegations. Nothing has been in the news since he pulled out of the race. And you know that if Gloria Allred had anything solid, that she would be making headlines somewhere. 

            Sorry, but I believe that in the United States people are “innocent until proven guilty”, not the other way around.

          • Anonymous

            Obama, like all the polls of the people, want to increase taxes on the rich. The GOP who SAID they would listen to the people don’t. Obama opposes the GOP plan to make medicare a voucher program as do the polls of the people. The GOP aren’t listening. Obama and the polls agree want the JOBs Bill passed and the GOP aren’t listening. Here’s just 3 of today’s bigger issues where you are wrong about Obama and in fact it’s the GOP not listening to the people. I’m sure there are many more…gays in the military, amount of military spending, cuts to medicare etc etc ALL where the Prez stands on the side of the MAJORITY of the people and the GOP AIN’T LISTENING.

            PS you’ve posted more lies EJ. You say you tell the truth but the majority wanted healthcare reform, were OK with bailing out GM, the Wall Street bailout was done by Bush not Obama, the people are in favor of the jobs bill, raising taxes on the rich in no way will “punish the middle class” such folly, Obama is and has always been for a 12 month extension of the payroll tax cut. Almost EVERYTHING you said is false. LOOK IT UP before spreading more lies. PS Only a real fool would say a recess appointment is unconstitutional. After all, you probably weren’t saying such foolishness when Reagan, Bush Sr and W were appointing 3 times as many recess appointments as Obama!

          • Anonymous

            The people were against Obamacare. He passed it.
            The people were against taking over GM and Chrysler. Obama did it anyway.
            The people were against the Wall Street bailout. Didn’t stop Obama.
            The people are against the jobs bill. The GOP is listening.
            Raising taxes on the rich will punish the middle and lower class. The GOP knows this.
            Obamacare took a half trillion from Medicare. Obama is using the Medicare issue to bash the GOP.
            The GOP wanted a 12 month extension of the payroll tax. Obama didn’t call his buddy, Reid, and tell him to back the 12 month extension. Instead, he let the Senate Majority Leader block the bill for political reasons and force the 3 month extension. Then Obama gets on the stump yesterday and supports the 12 month extension in the same speech where he ignored the Constitution with his recessed appointment.

            Obama doesn’t listen to anyone except himself and his left-wing, anti-American, Progressive handlers.

            By the way, my comment was about President Clinton. At least you didn’t refute that.

        • Anonymous

          This is just another bit of BS promoted by FOX and of course repeated here by foolish GOP cheerleaders who think they know it all but actually in many cases know very little about government affairs and budgeting.

  • Anonymous

    Earle M. Rafuse Obviously you are unaware that the question was worded that way not to get an honest response but instead to create the most controversy and garner more web page hits.

  • Tony, I agree completely. If people need help thats fine but if they are spending money on drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes than they should goto work and buy it with their own hard earned money. 

  • Scott Harriman

    I’ve been drinking uninspected, uncertified raw milk for my entire life and it has never caused any illness.

    The number of times I’ve been sick from government-tested, government-approved meat, however, is more than I can count.

    Does anyone else see a problem here?

    • Anonymous

      Stop buying your meat from street vendors.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve been drinking and driving for 20 years without a problem, so why regulate it?

      (just kidding, but you see my point)

  • Guest

    Jackie,
    Can you point to any documents that state that Repubs are against clean air, water and soil?  If not then I would call you a liar.

  • Anonymous

    Jackie, I absolutely agree the GOP is dead wrong in their treatment of the EPA and its regulations. I’m a fiscal conservative, but protecting our nation’s natural resources and environment is one of the few things our government should spend a lot on.

    BUT, that doesn’t mean they should wring their hands over our finances. Unless we do something, we’re hurting our children and our grandchildren. And for what? Petty political turf wars and posturing. They are ALL bums, left and right.

  • Drug testing for welfare- YES. I had to take a damn drug test as a teenager working at walmart why is it such a big deal to make welfare recipients take it? If they have nothing to hide than it really shouldn’t be an issue. My husband is a soldier and takes drug tests all the time, supervised and very awkward but it is part of his job and he has to do it. If our tax dollars are going to people who need help (which I understand and have no issue with) than why can’t I say I do not want to support drug addicts in anyway? It needs to happen. 

    And I see no reason why our reps should be except too, again if my husband has and I had to working at a box store why shouldn’t they be subject to it? Nothing to hide than it shouldn’t be an issue.

    Getting rid of the EPA would be awful. It is incredibly important and needed. The fact that people want to disband it makes very little sense. I think air, water, soil, etc. is important and would like it to be clean. I would prefer not to have to worry about what water is going to cause my body or my children’s bodies serious harm.

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