The Bangor Daily News encourages comments about stories, but you must follow our terms of service.

In brief:

1. Keep it civil and stay on topic
2. No vulgarity, racial slurs, name-calling or personal attacks.
3. People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked.

The primary rule here is pretty simple: Treat others with the same respect you'd want for yourself. Here are some guidelines (see more):

It should be noted this is not a comprehensive list.

• Don't insult one another or the subjects of BDN stories. You may be ticked off at what someone did or said, but you can explain that without resorting to name-calling or obscenity. Remember that young people are on this site too.
• That nasty line that makes your buddies go "haw, haw"? You're better than that.
• Comments should be your own work, not copied and pasted from elsewhere, though brief quoted passages to make your point are fine. And please don't use all capital letters. There's no need to shout.
• Stay focused on the issue in the article. Off-topic posts will be deleted.
• This isn't a forum to chat about your personal life.
• Some ideas — the fate of the earth, abortion, gun control, the nature of God — aren't going to be resolved in a reader forum, so no need to get frustrated if others don't see your point of view. State your position once and leave it at that.
• If you mouse over each comment you will see a "Flag" button. Please use it if you feel comments on the site are out of line. Quite often, we won't see a comment until it's reported.
• Questions about why a comment was — or wasn't — deleted? E-mail us at web@bangordailynews.com and let us know your username and where you posted or saw the comment.

• Anonymous

  Let’s wait for the dissenters to come, comment, and mischaracterize and villianize the occupiers while at the same time claiming they don’t understand what the movement is about. 

• Anonymous

  They need to go home clean up and concentrate all this energy they in finding a job.

• Anonymous

  It really does get tiring to see all the hate and misinformation thrown at OWS .  I have never seen, in these forums, a single right-wing commenter  act with even the smallest bit of manners and civility.   What you get instead is grade-school immaturity, words like “fleabagger” and worse.

  A word to the wise:  How you act in here reflects on the Republicans, Tea Party, or liberals, whichever position you get associated with.

• Anonymous

  Here I am. And while I am at it, here is some good information on how the labor unions like SEIU profit off of the people they say they are protecting. In Michigan they take $30 a month from families receiving medicaid in order to take care of disabled relatives. These unions have pushed the Democrats in the legislature to declare these families as “employees” of the state and thus union workers who must pay dues.How sick and how sad. This is what the Occupiers and their ilk have and will bring us.Read the whole article and be sickened.

  http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/seiu-siphons-dues-mich-medicaid-payments

• Anonymous

  Yeah!  The more the better.  Kudos to all.  Keep up the good work.

• Anonymous

  Civility? No thanks after what you leftists did to demonize the TeaParty you will NEVER get any civility from me about these scoundrels. Notice how as the violence level at their encampments increases and the press begins to report more incidents of illness and criminality their supporters here call for “understanding”, “civility” and bemoan the “corporate media”. SD and his kind are just apologists for a movement that has gone beyond the sane and entered some weird dimension of being for every pet cause of the loony left for the past thirty years.

• Guest

  Hello

• Anonymous

  Look at those union fat cats. Bet they showed up in new pickups and then went off to their hunting camps near Millinocket for some Saturday hunting fun. Give the rest of us hardworking folks a break and go peddle your parasitic tendencies elsewhere.

• Steve Anderson

  Why do you feel the need to be so willfully ignorant? Shouting “Get a job you dirty hippies!” is not a valid argument against OWS. It’s been said before, but right-wingers and the truth seem to act like oil and water, so I’ll repeat yet again: most of the Occupiers ARE employed. The are protesting not because they want an hand out or are too lazy to work, but because they’re angry at the contempt that corporations have shown to the American people and the fact that many of our countrymen are barely getting by while working themselves to the bone. 

  OWS isn’t some “leftist movement” more than the American Revolution, WWII, or the struggle for civil rights. Even if you disapprove of the methods of the Occupiers, the values they’re struggling to support are ideals that every decent American ought to support. 

• Guest

  I’ll tell you what. How about I cancel my subscription to the BDN?

• Anonymous

  That is weak logic. I should support them because they are supporting values I don’t agree with and if I don’t agree with them then I am not a decent American? Unfortunately Steve, you need to search deeply and discover just what is decent and moral about “Occupies” class warfare, promotion of government dependency, increasing an already bloated government regulatory climate and increasing budget deficits due to entitlement spending. Until they can convince me that those values of theirs will not make my children’s life worse or steal from future generations, I stand firmly and proudly opposed to them.

• Steve Anderson

  Based solely on their principles and not on their participants – even the most righteous protests tend to attract a lot of wierdos, after all – OWS is worthy of an enormous amount of respect, while the Tea Party is worthy of little more than contempt. OWS wants to try to fix some of the problems that plague our country; the Tea Party has been actively trying to destroy most of the things that make American society great.

• Anonymous

  “Second, banks would stop the 10 million pending foreclosures in the country as a way of halting the fall of the housing market.”

  So, let’s humor this union nut job.  Where would the money come from to repay the banks for the lost money on these homes?  Tax the rich of course.  Then if this foolishness is somehow funded, other homeowners may then ask themselves, why should I make my mortgage payment?  And the cycle continues.  Meanwhile, the banks are forced to write-off debt from these credit criminals.  The banks, like any business – small or large – have a goal to make money.  If there is a good chance customers will default on home loans, why lend the money?  Credit then becomes very tight and no one is able to purchase a home.  If there is no market, the value of existing homes plummet, related businesses fail (building contractors, home furnishing retailers), and the trend continues.  Big banks are not the problem either.  Many homeowners in Maine financed their primary residence from a local community bank, savings institution, or credit union that would suffer if required to eat these loses.  There is no easy solution.  I favor pulling the band-aid off quickly and moving on.

• Anonymous

  You give your hand away. You only see good from one side and not the fact that the other could have something of value to contribute. You offer nothing but partisanship and division, and that’s a shame.

• Anonymous

  SD, your comments should be banned for name-calling. How juvenile.

• Anonymous

  That’s not an article. That’s an opinion piece. I notice there is no citations for the claims that a medicaid recipient is considered a union member. Very curious, isn’t it?

  Further, I have much more disdain for the siphoning that comes off my income in order to pay off the debt caused by needless wars, corporate welfare, and tax cuts/loopholes for the extremely wealthy.

  And finally, you comment is completely irrelevant to the occupy movements. Shell out your propaganda elsewhere. And please stop trying to present it as fact. 

• Anonymous

  Did you mean principles?   But I get your valid point.

• Anonymous

  Do you think it is a good idea for rich Americans to build factories in China, making China stronger and the US weaker?

• Anonymous

  Did you know that two Wall Street bankers were just convicted of fraud for helping to cheat the American people and cause suffering to tens of millions of homeowners?

  What do you think about that?

• Anonymous

  Are you willing to make this comment to countryboy, above, and somewhrinmaine, above?

  If not, you are showing an extreme bias. Under the guise of logic, you are being unfair.

• Anonymous

  “Why do you feel the need to be so willfully ignorant? Shouting “Get a job you dirty hippies!” is not a valid argument against OWS. It’s been said before, but right-wingers and the truth seem to act like oil and water,” 

  I like how you put it Steve. 
  So, look on the bright side, how are the youth going to react to the tools, the Archies,  
  who are really the left overs from the sixties and who don’t know what time it is, 
  even down to what Century it is ? 

  So, the truth be known, I find myself encouraging the rotary dial tools. 
  Egging them on sometimes, even. 

  Why do people want any solutions, goals, objectives  from these folks in tents that they call “freaks” if in their hearts they do not know that conservative corporatist ones are not working ? 

  If the goals and objectives of the whole conservative business and political establishment were working, the Archies  would just be able say so. 
  Can they ?

• Anonymous

  Do you think any of the OWS people are good people and have valid complaints?

• Anonymous

  It is  a free country, still. 

  So who is doing anything to keep it that way ?  

• Steve Anderson

  Yep, that’s “principles” not “principals.” I learned the difference between the two when I was in fourth grade, but you’re never too old to make a typo. Thanks for catching that, it’s been fixed ;)

• Anonymous

  An interesting story from Fox News about the people who countryguy, Occupiers_aka_Communists, mithradities, mainer4ever, et al lionize, while constantly putting down Maine citizens who are exercising their Constitutional right to gather and protest peacefully. 

  http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/05/lawsuit-claims-banks-cheated-veterans-on-mortgage-loan-fees/

• Steve Anderson

  Well, if you think that it’s OK for poor people to live like third world refugees on the streets of a country where five-bedroom McMansions house a family with two children, then no, you are neither a decent American nor a decent human being. 

  I hate to enforce my beliefs on anyone, but let’s face it: some things are right and some things are wrong you need to stand up for what right and against what’s wrong. Basically, it comes down to this: do you care more about your fellow human beings or about money? 

• Anonymous

  Once again, SD attacks people tonight. Feel badly for him everyone.

• Guest

  You had to be there.  I’m having a pissing contest with the moderator.

• Anonymous

  Note the smell of desperation among the Occupy supporters here at the BDN comment section. They are resorting to personal attacks and complaining about how unfair, juvenile and childish the attacks on OWS are. Meanwhile, note their names and comments for the next time an article comes out on LePage , Republicans or the Tea Party. Hypocrites all.

• Anonymous

  Hmmm.two out of thousands of hardworking and law abiding Wall Street employees. You seem to dislike the broad brush used on OWS, but are ok with using it here. You can do better Sprucy.

• Anonymous

  Funny thing, I have seen MANY posts by the people you mention who source major news agencies and articles about OWS in support of their criticism. But you obviously don’t care to mention that. You only think leftists like yourself are capable of any substantive posting, and that is a major weakness of your side. You see only what you want to see.

• Anonymous

  I guess you failed to click on any of the sources mentioned in that article. Too bad, you might have learned something about how these unions steal from the people they claim to help.

• Anonymous

  More personal attacks. These OWS supporters are over the top tonight.

• Anonymous

  They are too busy shooting each other and getting sick in the cold.

  http://www.ksl.com/?nid=1070&sid=18042323&title=man-found-dead-in-tent-at-pioneer-park

• Anonymous

  I think some do, especially when it comes to crony-capitalism. Now I ask you, do you agree with anything from the TeaParty…and if so..give an example.

• Anonymous

  Don’t hold your breath waiting for him to agree with the TeaParty.

• Anonymous

  Today conservative bloggers held their convention in Denver. The “peaceful” occupiers decided to storm the convention, shout insults and use violence against the peaceful people there. THIS is the type of activity these folks like Sprucy and others are defending.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=otQdIqg1rvo

• Anonymous

  Peacefully? Here is a list, sourced and annotated that gives the true nature of the OWS movement.

  http://bigjournalism.com/jjmnolte/2011/10/28/occupywallstreet-the-rap-sheet-so-far/

• Anonymous

  “as American as apple pie”   -former Secretary of State Colin Powell

• Anonymous

  I am not in anyway attempting to say nasty things about you. I prefer to leave that to you and to others like you who subscribe to, what I consider, a flawed ideological view point. But had you read what I posted you would have noticed that I specifically said ”MAINE CITIZENS”. I also took the time to read the article you referenced. The word Maine appeared no where in the entire article. Also, you will have to excuse me if I failed to give it any credibility after reading the header saying it was presented by Andrew Breitbart. The same Mr. Breitbart who, again in my opinion and also in the opinion of other fair minded individuals,   makes Criminal (admitted in a court of law) James O’Keefe look like a paragon of  journalistic integrity after some of the highly edited material he has tried to portray as factual. 

• Guest

  Unions have done more to harm the average American in the last 100 years than “big banks” have.

  I really feel for guys like Jack because they are good people, they are just disillusioned and paranoid and truly believe that employers are evil by nature and are out to take advantage of workers.

  Take a step back and see that the best companies in the state are all non-union and all they union controlled companies eventually fold. 

• Anonymous

  Here is a different source that provides evidence that SEIU is in fact charging $30/month to these families  http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/282971/seiu-collects-union-dues-medicaid-recipients-andrew-stiles

  I think most members of the occupy movement would have a problem with this union doing this if they knew about it. This has not been well publicized here.

• Anonymous

  Don’t talk about hunters that way. 

• Anonymous

  You want to know where non-union companies will take you? 7 out of 10 of the poorest states in the country are all “Right to Work” states. They are basically basket cases across the board.

• Anonymous

  Would you please name these two bankers and who they worked for?

• Anonymous

  Its amazing people complain about minimum wage being not enough to live on but can begrudge anyone who makes an actual living wage.  

• Anonymous

  You make many good points however, I do think there are good solutions other than “pulling the band-aid off quickly.”

  First, I think the banks should prioritize their foreclosures based upon the length of time since receiving any payment. Also, the banks should be required to take any payment someone is trying to make (their policy is no partial payments). The fact of the matter is that some people are out of their home with less than a year since the first late payment, and other people go for several years without making a single payment. I have heard people gloating about the time they have gotten away without paying. This causes neighbors to feel less inclined to pay their own mortgages.

  Second, banks and other lending institutions should stop making their money off selling the mortgages. If you thought the person was worthy of receiving the loan than you should continue to hold and service the loan. Too many problems are created when a mortgage is transferred from one institution to another.

  Thirdly, banks should have a time limit on short sales. The short sale process is basically the homeowner admitting that they cannot handle the mortgage and selling the house at a loss. Banks sometimes allow this process to go on so long that ready willing and able buyers move on to available properties.

  Finally, when a bank forecloses it should not cause a blight on the neighborhood. They typically do not care for the property. This includes allowing the pipes to freeze because they did not secure the water or pay for heat/electricity. Banks should not be permitted to have so many properties they are unwilling/unable service. They should sell them quickly. I have personally seen foreclosed properties that the bank could not sell six months after removing previous owner because they had not yet done all of the paperwork etc. This causes problems for anyone else in the neighborhood that wants to sell.

• Anonymous

  If you’re going to demonize companies for operating in China then you should also demonize those who buy Chinese made goods from Walmart. And let me see, who typically shops there? Same difference-sending wealth overseas. 

• Anonymous

  I don’t know why the occupiers didn’t anticipate that the longer they
  stayed in one place, the more likely it was that they would be overrun
  with ne’er-do-wells, homeless, anarchists, druggies, etc.
  Instead of making their point over a couple of days, then going home to
  build an organization that could work towards placing people in
  government, as the TEA Party did, they’re watching their movement become
  little “Lord of the Flies” sub-societies.
  I think that within the next few months, the small Politburo at the
  center of OWS (I think they call themselves the “Spokes” group, will
  take the money and form a 501(C)(3) organization, with the officers of
  the group taking home six-figure salaries. Once they file their tax
  forms showing this, the unwashed masses that comprise the bulk of the
  occupiers will be royally pissed.

• Steve Anderson

  No, it’s not. If one man has billions of dollars, and another man has cancer that costs thousands of dollars to treat, and no one but the billionaire has nearly enough money to pay for the treatment, the billionaire has a moral obligation to help his neighbor. And if the billionaire refuses to pay, the others have a moral obligation to take the money from him by force. It would be immoral NOT to force him to pay for his neighbor’s care.

  Everyone has a right to own personal property and to do what he wants with it, but our moral obligation to help others overrides our right to own an infinite amount of wealth, regardless of what some fool who calls himself a philosopher has to say about it. 

• Steve Anderson

  Both respect disrespect are things that must be earned, and the Tea Party has worked tirelessly to earn almost every ounce disrespect it receives. When you’re movement is advocating that it’s immoral for the government to try to protect it’s citizens from discrimination, poverty, illness and starvation, you really can’t expect anyone to treat you very nicely. 

• Anonymous

  Let’s say this guy (with cancer) made a choice to smoke three packs a day that caused his cancer. At what point does personal responsibility come into play? Nothing is black and white.

• Steve Anderson

  Unions have fought tirelessly to protect the hardworking men and women of our country. The Armed Services is probably at the top of the list of organizations that protect the people of America, but labor unions aren’t far behind. 

• Steve Anderson

  You do realize that these “hardworking and law abiding” Wall Streeters are the same people who got million dollar bonuses after destroying our economy and shipping our jobs off to China, right?

• Anonymous

  Jennifer, I applaud your suggestions.  Most community banks do prioritize loans based upon payment history and delinquency status.  Unfortunately, there are very complicated and restrictive rules regarding foreclosure that banks must follow or start anew with the process.  I know several people that are quite capable of making their residential loan payments and have made a “business decision” to not make the payments to qualify for reduced interest rates or a reduction in loan principal.  So while your suggestions are noble, more often than not, additional government interference usually makes any problem worse.  Further, the foreclosure process can take over a year – again due to government regulations and state laws.  During this time period, the mortgagee often moves out or intentionally destroys the house and the bank has its hands tied.  I know of two situations where one credit criminal cut a hole in the kitchen floor and used it as a toilet.  Another situation, the borrower literally cut the house in half with a chainsaw.  The bank could not do anything about either situation until the foreclosure process ran its course.

• Steve Anderson

  Let’s say he never smoked a cigarette in his life but he worked for years as a dedicated employee in a factory where he got lung cancer from the toxic fumes. Despite his tireless dedication to his job he was tossed to the curb like an old shoe (under the pretext of downsizing, but really they just didn’t want to pay his medical bills). Since he lost his health insurance, he can’t afford treatment, and no other insurance company will accept him because he has a preexisting condition. He’d get another job to pay for his treatment but he’s too sick to work. That’s a scenario that’s not at all improbable. 

  Oh, and guess what would have prevented him from getting cancer in the first place? If the union had been successful in their attempt to demand healthier working conditions, or if the government has passed stricter industry regulations limiting employee exposure to toxins. 

  But we couldn’t have those things, could we, ’cause unions are BAD BAD BAD and government regulation kills jobs!

• Anonymous

  Exactly!!

• Anonymous

  Well, actually a few have been very civil. But I would not want to presume to list them here. There are good people on both sides who can talk about it civilly. I skip over most of the others.

• Anonymous

  Oh, no you don’t! Do not even start to suggest that Occupiers think all unions do the right thing. Some do, some don’t. Keep it local where we can make a difference. Hopefully the folks in Michigan are taking care of any wrongdoing there. I am not necessarily pro-union, but I am pro-worker’s rights. And, if they choose to organize and join a union or create one then it is because they want a voice in what happens to them. I support that all the way. In companies where workers have a voice, feel heard, unions may have no role.

• Anonymous

  That’s fair.

• Anonymous

  Emphacise “the press begins to report” and the rest of your argument falls apart.

• Anonymous

  Yes, let’s all stop with the broad brushing and over generalizations.

• Anonymous

  A living wage for a one adult household in Penobscot County is $8.41. Who is begrudging you that?

• Anonymous

  Agree. That is not fair.

• Anonymous

  Well, yes you should expect be treated nicely.  And when you do treat the negative voices that way you maintain the higher ground. A firm agree-to-disagree takes care of it quite nicely.

• Anonymous

  There you go generalizing. I for one have acknowledged many opposing substantive postings. Disagreed, probably, well…. no, a couple times even agreed.

• Anonymous

  The pot calling the kettle black? You regurgitate what you have been told the Occupiers want. I do not find any of that on the consensus agreements posted at http://www.occupybangor.org. If you asked me, I would not want any of that. And I Occupy.

• Anonymous

  Yes, boycott Walmart. And your local hardware store. I can remember my Dad bemoaning the made in china label when I was a teenager and I am older than he was then now. Made in China has been around for a long, long time. But do boycott Walmart because they pay public assistance wages (for all of you concerned about cutting entitlements). Is that something a Tea Pary member could support? Now THAT boycott just might make a difference….. teaming up like that. How about a national boycott Walmart week?

• Anonymous

  True.

• Anonymous

  True again.

• Anonymous

  Huh? Could somebody translate for me?

• Anonymous

  Over 6000 people voted to unanimously support OccupyBangor. You got outvoted.

• Anonymous

  Still waiting for you to explain the relevance. 

• Anonymous

  That’s a lousy argument…there isn’t very much that you can buy these days that has not been made overseas, no matter where you shop. 

• Anonymous

  No, despite some of the harsh words, that is not what anyone here is defending. I have to admit I did not watch the video because I can pretty well guess that it would be showing. Mob behavior is always ugly. John Adams was deeply disturbed by the tar and feathering of his times. Good people do awful things sometimes and live to regret it. It is called PTSD.

• Anonymous

  I think history would tell you that unions created the middle class. Yes, many fair share companies are non-union. Unions are only needed when the fair share is missing. And, it is looking to me like they are going to be needed again, and right here in Maine. And many of those companies have not “folded”, they have taken the jobs overseas where they can use and abuse third world workers to increase the profits so the bonuses and million dollar raises keep coming. BUY FAIR TRADE!

• Anonymous

  If that’s the case, then why not just force the Doctor’s to treat the patient, and hospitals to foot the bill? Money is not fundamental to life, but it is fundamental to power. Who’s to stop your neighbor from just taking what is yours simply because he claims the need for what you have, and the right to steal from you? BTW, how is your car running? Mine’s in pretty rough shape, and I might be needing yours soon.

• Guest

  If I owned a business I would move it over seas before I would let a greedy union dictate the way I ran my business. 

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  I did not realize that the occupy groups were a labor movement. 

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  They want all debt forgiven and that is a handout.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  Neither, I only care about me and my own family.  I have no interest in these people, what they stand for and why they stand for it.  I do not care if they are poor or homeless and I do not care what their reasons are for their personal situation.  I am not ashamed that I earn a decent living and am able to care for myself and my family.  I only give what I am forced to give through taxes.  You may have opposite views and I respect those views but I do not, in any way, agree with them. 

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SHNOU64ZBOBIKWUF5IM6WSH7WA entitled4life

  So what you are saying is if someone earns tons of money, it is your right to take what you need because you were unable to earn enough for yourself and everyone should be forced to share?

• Anonymous

  Well, I am old enough to remember “Made in Japan”, Made in Hong Kong”, Made in Tawian”.  The point is the people doing the complaining about building up foreign countries are doing it without really thinking about it. You do realize that unions support “Made in America”? The only reason China has gotten so big is that EVERYONE has done their part to support them. Even me.

• Anonymous

  You didn’t answer my question. And by the way, the health system does have outlets for your scenerio: Mainecare/Medicaid, Medicare, sliding fee scales. And I did have a friend that went through your exact scenerio. He use to call himself the “Million Dollar Man” because he said that’s how much the government had into him before he died.  Yeah-he smoked like a chimney.

• Anonymous

  We all have the options to give to private charities which probably are more efficient at helping the people who need it.

• Anonymous

  I meant an actual living wage-not some obscure number. There are people who post on here that seem to be somewhat envious of others that do better.

• Anonymous

  Civility? Civility? The Tea Party was never about civility. It is a re-arranging of history to even include the word civility and the Tea Party in the same sentence.

  If you recall, they came to the fore by shouting down anybody who disagreed with them. They started out dumping stuff in the rivers and lakes and having near riots when anybody who disagreed with them dared to try to speak. Newscorp (Fox) sponsored some of the rallies, then covered them as news. This is the same Newscorp that is now under scrutiny for tapping the phones of hundreds of people and hacking the e-mail accounts of many more. This is the integrity of the Tea Party as far as I am concerned.

  So for you to even try to say that the Tea Party has any civility is much more laughable than the efforts of a few people who want to take a stand and point out that the rich in this country have bent the laws to benefit them. The 1% have used lobbyists like Jack Abramoff to bribe the Republicans and Democrats into passing laws that restrict the rights of individuals and broaden the rights of corporations.

• Anonymous

  Is this why the Tea Party shouts down anybody who disagrees with them? Because they are so tolerant? Is this why the Tea Party is known for no compromise (“My way or the highway”)? Do they believe anybody else has an answer?

• Anonymous

  Fox News as a source for anything rational? I think not. They have proven themselves time and again to be lapdogs for the ones who stole the trillions that disappeared from the economy.

  Fox News sponsored Tea Party rallies and them covered them as an “objective” news source.

  The parent company (and even The Wall Street Journal) is under tremendous pressure after being caught hacking e-mails, tapping phones and engaging in disreputable ways of inflating circulation figures. But, of course, you take them as a trusted source. Figures. Listening and bobbing your head at their pronouncements is not the same as broadening your mind, but  it’s a whole lot easier.

• Anonymous

  Must have taken a page from the Tea Party. To learn why I say that, just Google ‘ Tea Party riot ‘ and you’ll have lots of reading for these long cold nights.

• Anonymous

  Really? Unions have hurt more than banks? Did unions sell securities they knew as worthless to the middle class? Banks did, and are being sued for it. On the one hand they sold you the security, but in-house they were betting that the value would drop to almost nothing. So by selling the security and selling it short at the same time they were able to steal the money.

  Even the current crop of Republican prez. candidates allow that the country was better off during the 50′s. This is exactly the time unions were strongest. Any co-incidence?

  Banks are necessary, but they have shown time and again that they are just waiting for a loophole to appear so they can stick it to us. I guess the fact that we had a large banking system failure during Reagan’s administration and another under GW Bush doesn’t make you think? Each time, financial institutions failed, the gov’t bailed them out, and several hundred people got away with billions of dollars. Don’t pay attention to them, it is the unions who are driving this country down. Yup.

• Anonymous

  Like : 

  KayakMomma 9 hours ago in reply to disqusbites
  “Huh? Could somebody translate for me?” ?

• Anonymous

  I say go with her,  and ask her to tell us how to rise  a family on $ 336.4o gross per week. 

• Anonymous

  I attended College and had to borrow money to do so. The money borrowed was at a low rate of interest, from the US Government. Several times I had trouble paying it back and thus was allowed forebearance twice. Today at 36 I sent my last payment to Sallie Mae a few weeks ago.
  I picked a career that I could make a living in. My grandfather wanted to be a poet, he loved Walt Whitman and yet he knew he most likely could never make any money at it and so after working for the telephone company managed to retire and upon his death leave my grandmother nearly a millionaire. He told me as a teenager, there are dreams we all have and yet we have to be realistic. 

  Im sorry for someone who has an advanced degree in Chinese Philosophy from Yale and now owns thousands of dollars, but I wonder if that person was being realistic when they took that path of study. I dont remember the government giving me a guarantee of a job when I signed the student loan promissary note.

  Something else. This summer I invested a small amount of money in a local MDI area bank. I saw that sum of money increase by 12 percent over the span of a few months and in October got a dividend check from that bank.  I also got quite a nice return from two other stocks. No I am not Jim Cramer or Warren Buffet and I am not part of the 1%, I only put a thousand dollars into the bank stock and ended up with nearly twelve hundred in about 80 days time. Thats evil Wall Street for you.

  Dont occupy a street, a park or a bank. Occupy your mind, your ambition and work hard. Our grandparents did it, our parents did it. So can we! 

• Anonymous

  ” And when you do treat the negative voices that way you maintain the higher ground. A firm agree-to-disagree takes care of it quite nicely.”

  They are supposed to know the Golden Rule, and yet they say they never compromise, too.  
  So if they want to be treated differently, let them change. 

  “Them” changing their ways, is pretty much the whole point, too, isn’t it Mama ?

  If not, please do generalize, and explain what YOUR goals
  might be ?

  They should also know that they can’t serve two masters ….
  without compromising.  

  Your points are well known to me, Mama. 
  You may be the most well intended person in the world, 
  but still the effect of your ways are obstructionism. 

  But knowing the problem, from experience, the solution is for you to spell out … script, design, plan, organize and execute your own political direct action, if you know how it needs to be done, show us all how it should be more correctly done, please. 

  Lead from the front, and effect change with your better ways, Mama, or stop nagging and be supportive of all those that you can be. 

  With any others, just stand side, please.

• Anonymous

  Its human nature. I know clam diggers who are self employed who wont dig more than $1200 dollars of clams a week as after that the taxes get to high. Or what about the fact that I could make a lot more money a year but to do so means that I work a lot harder and contribute a bigger share to taxes as well.

  It happens everywhere. Here in Argentina there are Peugeot and Fiat factories. Those are European Companies. What is HSBC, a swiss bank doing business in the USA for?

  Both parties are to blame for how things have gotten to this point. Both parties have sat and watched while doing nothing to stop it.

  We owe the Chinese so much money that no president would have the guts to propose a tariff on goods from that country, its all free-trade, free-trade! Perot was right, free -trade is not free and it kills economies.

• Anonymous

  What you give as an example is a scenario that would have taken place fifty years ago. No one works with Asbestos anymore  and agencies such as OSHA exist. There is a safety net called Medicare and Medicaid and millions of people use it.

  Im not much of a bible student but I do know about the ten commandments. They say though shall not steal. There are no exceptions to that moral rule that I am aware off.

• Anonymous

  Maybe it is not fair that some of us had a bit more brain power in school than others and have found jobs that pay us well enough to live the way we wish to. Maybe it is unfair that some people get stuck working at minimum wage jobs. 

  But here is the thing.  My cousins grew up poor and both went to college on government loans. My father who barely finished high school went on to get training in a job he really likedand ended up retiring with an 75000 dollar a year salary.  I could have been a stock broker and not work as much and have a lot more money but I choose what I wanted to do.

  I have put small amounts of money into retirement and the evil corporations have paid me dividends and returns on those investments. 

  So in short, you and I agree. So much of your life is what you make of it.

• Anonymous

  I watched a program on CNBC last week about a doctor who committed Healthcare  Fraud.
  Im going to go out and execute my dentist, my general practioner and my kids pediatricain right now as they too are obviously evil!

• Anonymous

  They were both Indians, one had an investment firm and got tips from another Indian man who was a board member of several corporations , one being Proctor and Gamble.

• Anonymous

  The point is that we all know that no one is living much of a life on $8.41 an hour.
  It takes you a certain amount of money to operate your household, me a certain amount and perhaps those amounts are different. That means that one of us might have to make thousands of dollars more than the other. 

  There seems to be some desire expressed to put us all on the same economic level and history has showed us that does not work. All of Eastern Europe stopped being communist. China is not operating a communist economy. And Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea continue to be poor countries that are run by rich elite and populated by marginalized poor people.

  If you desire to live a 400´000 dollar a year life style and work to provide it for yourself who am I to say that you are not entitled to it? 

• Anonymous

  Yes, just like the Principal of an El Paso high school who in a conference was saying that illegal immigration was a huge problem in school funding and got yelled at by an immigration activist and called a Nazi.

  Listen, there is a lot of garbage from both sides and its pretty sad to see people who can only believe that the side they support has all the answers and that the other side is totally wrong on everything?

• Anonymous

  I dont think Rush Limbaugh gives much respect to anyone who doesnt follow his views and I dont think Rachel Maddow or Ed Schultz do either.  Watching and listening to those rants is comprable to listening to an arguement between kindergardeners.

  In my opinion you put a big twist on things.  Do you ever wonder why the State of Maine doesnt have enough money to fund its social programs? Part of the problem is things that the Governor talks about and that anyone with any common sense knows is true.

  A Japanese semi-conductor company decides not to build a factory in Maine that could employee people  due to high energy costs. The Governor talks about creating cheaper energy through gas and he gets immediately called an environmental terrorist.

  There are things that can be cleaned up with MaineCare and yet whenever the conversation comes up it brings  a lot of people into a rabid fury that wont allow them to even consider one proposal that might mean that funds could be better spent.

• Anonymous

  If unbiased news is what you are looking for then you should stop reading this paper and not watch FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC or CNN. 

  Try the CBC  or the BBC. Deutsche Wella is good too.

• Anonymous

  Who was president for most of the fifties? What party did he belong to?
  Its not a very valid point on my part due to the fact that Harry Truman while a democrat would most likely not comprehend how far left his party is today. Nor would Abraham Lincoln recognize how far right his party has gone.

• Anonymous

  hmmmm the same gang that backs obamba.

• Anonymous

  Not obscure at all: http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/counties/23019 

• Anonymous

  A family of four needs $27.45, or $1098 a week. And that just covers the basics. No discretionary funds in there.

• Anonymous

  Exactly. No argument there. And no desire to constrain you from achieving your goals….. as long as you are not abusing folks along the way. Watch Jamie Johnson’s The One Percent (and just so you know he is the .01%).

• Anonymous

  No, will not stand aside. Will speak out against negatives, even my own, in order to create a more civil society as that is one of my desired outcomes. Obstruct I will. As will you. Disagreement is obstructive.  Disobedience can be civil. I skip many comments for the very reasons you imply. You can do the same of mine. But, you seem to like responding to my comments. I missed a reply to one you made a while ago and I felt disappointed as I agreed with you on a good bit of it. Let the dialogue continue. Rally on!

• Anonymous

  Help me here. How does my request for clarification relate to broad brushing and over generalizations?

• Anonymous

  If you ran your business well your workers would not feel the need to organize.

• Anonymous

  I’m so sorry, Momma.
  I must not understand the word, as you it. 
  The fault is all mine, I’m sure, Momma. 
  So pleases help me to do every thing better. 

• Anonymous

  SalArg: Re; 
  “There seems to be some desire expressed to put us all on the same economic level and history has showed us that does not work. All of Eastern Europe stopped being communist. China is not operating a communist economy. And Cuba, Vietnam and North Korea continue to be poor countries that are run by rich elite and populated by marginalized poor people.” 

  Yes I agree but where it coming from ? 

  But just because communism failed …. (and I’ll reserve my judgement on that relative to  China, given who is still the leadership, during this great leap forward) …. does that mean the capitalist international service economy is working ? 
  There have been no crises that the free market itself have not been able to resolve ? 
  Well ?

• Anonymous

  I honestly see not a a group of people speaking about injustice but a majority speaking of things that they want.
  I borrowed money to go to college and several times had to ask for forebearance on the loan payments. But I was able to pay for college and have a good career. I choose wisely. If someone choose to borrow tons of money to go to Colby College when they could have gone U Mass for less whose problem is that? If someone says Im going to get a degree in Oriental Cultures and then can get a job as a cultural attache at the US Embassy in China is that your fault or mine? Did the evil government and evil banks tell them what to study and how much to borrow? My cousin wanted to go to Michigan to be an engineer, could have gone to Maine but Michigan was the better school. He joined the airforce so he could afford to go to Michigan and not be in tons of debt. Should we have just said you know what Dave here is the 50 grand you need, we took it form someone else to give it to you?
  How is it that I can go house shopping and say hey, I can afford a house that costs around 125’000 dollars on just my income alone, without the income of my wife included? If I said that I was going to devote half of both our monthly salaries to a house payment what would you tell me, that I was insane?
  When a person is out there screaming that an evil corporation like Coca Cola is needs to be shut down I wonder why? Do they not like the taste of Coke, is it that they tried to get a job at Coke and cant? Are they upset that a Coca Cola worker in Argentina makes less money than one in the United States. Upset about Black and Decker tools that are made in China, save up and buy Old Milwaukee brand instead? And do they drive an American car?
  Why do you suppose paper making is on its way out in Maine? We cant cut down trees, thats enviromental terrorism, we cant power them with electric dams as they have all be ripped out. We cant build a gas pipeline to carry LNG as that is enviromental terrorism too?
  Ever wonder why the State of Maine cant afford to cover its social spending and not make cuts all the time? Is it due to the fact that state workers cant contribute even 5 dollars a month to cover thier own health insurance costs. What about someone like my cousin who works at a State Job that is redundant and by her own admission a joke? Lets be honest and admit that people cheat welfare to the detriment of others but we cant ever discuss that as if we try to it its freezing children and starving old people.
  Sometimes we create our own problems and are our own worst enemy. I think the some in the OWS movement might need to think about that. —– Original Message —–

• Anonymous

  To not give them what they ask for: 

  NO COMPROMISE AS A MATTER OF OUR PRINCIPLES,  TOO,  
  to not get them to respect that you mean it , too, just as they claim
  is their right, but theirs lone, …

  or for the State’s corporate  controlled security forces to smack you down, while the whole world is watching, …

  how will the poor, misled  tea sippers ever learn that, sure,  Momma’s alternative approach, will be best,  once all the people, are willing to compromise, and learn to do it  … ALL THE TIME ?   

  So are people who as you put it;  ” advocating that it’s immoral for the government to try to protect it’s citizens from discrimination, poverty, illness and starvation” also claim that are the only real defenders of our National  heritage which clearly says that the government MUST provide for the common welfare, ( what are the Archies)  learning from their tactics, that still can sort of win elections ? 

  I think they have learned that they need not compromise, because it works for their bosses.  

  Fine, so turn the other cheek, with those whose only operative principle 
  is no compromise, if you want.

  But after they smack it too, and the count is two strikes  and no balls, what is next ? 

  I know it can be non-violent, but still it best creative and tough enough to  drive in a run, at least.   

  So, relly, is talking back, just as you have been talked to, violent,
  or just NOT politically incorrect …in a way that  is not very well respected, because it don’t win the prize … the right to govern… it  doesn’t win elections , even… 

  If political correctness worked, who would be Govenah, and why would we need a protest movement at all ?  

  What good is  one’s personal  moral victory in the face of people,
  who are plain wrong, immoral AND think if they compromise that  is all, beside you no count ingrates, that could ever be wrong ?

• Anonymous

  Me : Do you even understand the meaning of the phase “to stand side” in the long history of non- violent political direct action and the consensus decision making process …. upon which the OWS movement is operating  ? 

  All; Do you even understand the meaning of the phase “to stand side” in the long history of non- violent political direct action and the consensus decision making process … upon which the OWS movement is operating  ? 

  ; )

• Anonymous

  I am aware of just how the “fair and balanced” network slants their stories. I used fox news as a source simply because it is the one media outlet that our radical right tea party friends look to and cite as factual. The story I referenced was one about how the large banks were unlawfully charging veterans fees on mortgages. Might I assume you didn’t take the time to read the story before you launched your inaccurate portrayal of my using them as a trusted source?

• Anonymous

  Nothing is perfect and when people or groups try to start tinkering with the foundation of any system terrible things happen. This has the potential to be a very large response but I will keep it short and say that part of the trouble in  my mind is that  everyone is expecting not to feel any pain or to have to take any responsibilty for the actions they take.

  One thing is for sure, when people get greedy capitalism always bites them on the backside.

  It happens when they dont follow the basic principles of sound finance as well.

• Anonymous

  Some people are asking too much of it, too.
  Is that to be able say later that it failed ?  

• Steve Anderson

  You can’t go wrong with PBS or NPR either, although they are admittedly a bit boring unless you’re a current events junkie.

• Anonymous

  Unions would cease to exist if their employer wasn’t a crony, so these guys are supporting the wrong crowd.

• Steve Anderson

  So you openly admit to being a sociopath? That’s actually pretty evil. You just come out and admit that you don’t care about your fellow human beings. And two people liked what you said. Thank God – and I can only hope there is a God to work as a force for good against the evil of monsters like yourself – not everyone in the world is as heartless as you. 

• Steve Anderson

  You have no right to my car, unless it’s essential to your survival. If you’d been shot and an ambulance couldn’t make it in time, you’d every right in the world to steal my car (I’d offer it to you without hesitation in that situation, but if I was less of a decent person, you’d have the right to steal it), but you’d have to return it once you got out of the hospital. Does that make sense? I really don’t think it’s a very difficult concept. 

• Steve Anderson

  This scenario happened fifty years ago and you’d have to be a fool to think it’s not still happening now. 

  They say thou shalt not seal. They also say thou shalt not kill, but would you really turn the other cheek if a would be murderer was advancing on you with a knife and you were armed with a loader gun?

• Steve Anderson

  Well, yeah. That’s kind of a no-brainer. 

• Anonymous

  Went looking for “stand side” as it relates to consensus and could only find “stand aside” which of course means even though you do not support something you will not block consensus. But the comment that started this whole thing had nothing to do with consensus making, so your point is?

• Anonymous

  You just highlighted the whole problem with human-defined ethics. Namely, that anyone can change the rules at any time. Your main fault in reasoning is assuming that any one person’s life is worth more than the safety of others,  and the principle of “Thou shalt not steal.” Ethics makes an attempt at defining what is “good” in life, not what is fair. We humans have never successfully balanced the scales in regards to right and wrong, and never will. This is why there continues to be war and lawyers. Everyone thinks that there problem is the most important, or injustice done to them the most grevious. However, I do believe that it is sometimes better to ask forgiveness than permission. But, I do not pretend to be righteous in my actions, for I am not the judge of such things and neither are you.

• Anonymous

  You can assume that, because I do not follow any link to Fox since you can’t trust it. And why do you say it is an inaccurate portrayal? You did use it as an unbiased source. My theory is that if somebody lies about 1/2 the time, how can you believe it the other 1/2?

• Anonymous

  That is not entirely true. One can read the whole spectrum of news outlets and still learn. The secret is realizing where they come from and adjusting your credulity as needed. Even the Brits and Germans have a point of view and national interests that their state-sponsored media push. And yes, all 3 that you mention are bookmarks on this machine. (Sciencedaily.com is another decent news source for the science side of things.)
  At any rate, do you know how to listen to Fox? You hold a bunch of marbles in your hand while listening to their broadcast. Every time you believe one of their stories, you drop a marble into a bucket. When you have lost all your marbles,  you are a Fox News junkie!