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• Anonymous

  Sounds far too good to be true.  I hope this gets off the ground.

• Fire All Liberals First

  The water over the dam dries up every summer … geothermal in Dover? Hum … I wonder where that is located.
  It would be far more beneficial for the manufacturing site to stay tied to manufacturing if possible.

• Fire All Liberals First

  The water over the dam dries up every summer … geothermal in Dover? Hum … I wonder where that is located.
  It would be far more beneficial for the manufacturing site to stay tied to manufacturing if possible.

• Fire All Liberals First

  The water over the dam dries up every summer … geothermal in Dover? Hum … I wonder where that is located.
  It would be far more beneficial for the manufacturing site to stay tied to manufacturing if possible.

• Fire All Liberals First

  It is too good to be true. The old Mooshead site is located just of Monument Square and half the square has been torn down over the years. It has become a dusty cross road that NEEDS a manufacturing base.

• Anonymous

  I really do not understand you . When was the last time you traveled our town? I know it may be hard to understand but all roads in Dover are in fact paved including state roads which this old mill is located on. Please come back to Dover and reaquaint yourself.

• Anonymous

  I really do not understand you . When was the last time you traveled our town? I know it may be hard to understand but all roads in Dover are in fact paved including state roads which this old mill is located on. Please come back to Dover and reaquaint yourself.

• Anonymous

  I really do not understand you . When was the last time you traveled our town? I know it may be hard to understand but all roads in Dover are in fact paved including state roads which this old mill is located on. Please come back to Dover and reaquaint yourself.

• Anonymous

  I really do not understand you . When was the last time you traveled our town? I know it may be hard to understand but all roads in Dover are in fact paved including state roads which this old mill is located on. Please come back to Dover and reaquaint yourself.

• Anonymous

  I really do not understand you . When was the last time you traveled our town? I know it may be hard to understand but all roads in Dover are in fact paved including state roads which this old mill is located on. Please come back to Dover and reaquaint yourself.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DL4QM53ISG3TTKFDFNQU6L7ZLE Cary

  you truly have no idea what you’re talking about … this is EXACTLY what D-F needs … let’s hope this all comes together!

• SwiftyMorgain

     Why! The Governor doesn’t intend to create JOBS, just Tenaments for the lower wage earners that are all ready employed!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFVzwuOX2h4

  Manufacturing jobs? Who needs them?

  Mexico will do it for pennies on the dollar!

• SwiftyMorgain

  In addition, applications have been filed for Community Development Block Grants and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency funds to help clean up asbestos and for other environmental work needed at the site. Arnold said a website would be set up later to let the public see the project’s progress.

  ( Great Place for a Housing Complex!)

• SwiftyMorgain

  DOVER-FOXCROFT, Maine — Based on recent surveys, about 75 percent of Americans would trade their large lot suburban home for a smaller lot, townhouse or an apartment that was within walking distance of shops, a Missouri developer told Dover-Foxcroft selectmen Monday.

  Thats Because!

  75% of Americans are in debt up to their eyeballs and are looking at living in their cars as a viable option!

  75% are living on credit cards!

  http://www.latindailyfinancialnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10222%3Aballooning-consumer-debt-in-the-us–are-you-crossing-your-personal-debt-ceiling-&catid=206%3Afinance&Itemid=707&lang=en

• Anonymous

  I found this line to be worthy of laughter: “complete with plenty of parking.” I have to question that statement, especially with all that they want to do with the site.

• Anonymous

  I found this line to be worthy of laughter: “complete with plenty of parking.” I have to question that statement, especially with all that they want to do with the site.

• Fire All Liberals First

  I am as acquainted with Dover-Foxcroft as any native of the town could be. The town needs a growing manufacturing base in order to provide for the employment of it’s rather under-employed citizens.

• Fire All Liberals First

  What part of my post is an indication to you that I do not know what I am talking about? Was it the fact that the Piscataquis River gets so low in the summer months that water stops flowing over the dam and only a trickle flows beyond the base of the dam aided by the Morton brook flow from under the old Gilman’s feed store on Lincoln street? Was it the fact that there are no geothermal springs in Maine? I am pretty sure there is not a single place in Maine that has geothermal activity. Was it my opinion that a manufacturing site is better used for manufacturing to provide jobs in a rather depressed local economy rather than provide a couple of quaint shops and several apartments? Where do the young people in Dover-Foxcroft who are the intended residents of these apartments actually work in Dover-Foxcroft? The town has an 11.2% unemployment rate, far higher than the 7.8% state average.
  What D-F EXACTLY needs is a growing manufacturing base paying a living scale wage that keeps it’s young people living in the community. Lets start with a tax free business zone to encourage businesses to locate in the community. I would rather see the leaders of the community hit the road to encourage companies to relocate or expand in D-F and have the enticements to bring them there.
  I grew up in the town and even then it was in the beginnings of it’s long death throes. It’s manufacturing base had all but disappeared. The shops on Main were beginning to thin out and now, years later, it is a shell of what it was in earlier generations. Focus on getting people back to work with improved living wages and perhaps the flower pots and cafes will become truly something to get excited about. If not, take a picture of this “exciting” development in another ten years.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Well, in all fairness, there is ample parking available.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Do yourself a favor and move to Mexico.

• Fire All Liberals First

  Do yourself a favor and move to Mexico.

• SwiftyMorgain

  I rekon when the Hitler youth group Tea Partiers finally take over ima leavin partnah!

• Anonymous

  O.K., I’ll bite–where? By the way, I live in town. 

• Anonymous

  O.K., I’ll bite–where? By the way, I live in town. 

• Anonymous

  O.K., I’ll bite–where? By the way, I live in town. 

• Fire All Liberals First

  The entire backside of the facility is open for parking as is a good part of the grounds behind monument square.  Stacked hardwood used to be stored on the west side of the property down behind the square parking lot.

• Fire All Liberals First

  The entire backside of the facility is open for parking as is a good part of the grounds behind monument square.  Stacked hardwood used to be stored on the west side of the property down behind the square parking lot.

• Fire All Liberals First

  The entire backside of the facility is open for parking as is a good part of the grounds behind monument square.  Stacked hardwood used to be stored on the west side of the property down behind the square parking lot.

• Fire All Liberals First

  If you let me know when you are leaving, I’ll send a few parting shots your way.

• Anonymous

   Do us ALL a favor you mean?

• Anonymous

   Do us ALL a favor you mean?

• Anonymous

   Do us ALL a favor you mean?

• Anonymous

   Do us ALL a favor you mean?

• SwiftyMorgain

  Ole Swifty is pretty quick at the draw! Partnah!

• SwiftyMorgain

      I agree that we need a manufaturing base, but that is not what either side is promoting. If so the Dem’s more then the Rep.

  Ross perot was right about the giant sucking sound with nafta. We need to all throw away  the established parties that are sending jobs overseas and elect some one who will protect America from the globalist!

  Protesting taxes aint the answer. Protectionism is!

  ( I really don’t care to go to Mexico)! Do you?

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G3VHVECWXVPAFPXQOKWKQLXC6M c

  I suspect that Cary said “you truly have no idea what you’re talking about” because:

  1) The Moosehead plant is between 70 and 130 years old (depending on which building you are referring to), so it isn’t really suited to modern industrial uses.

  2) To be economically competitive, manufacturing facilities need to be highly automated or employ cheap labor (less than $2.00/hr). The only real exceptions to that rule are federal contractors (like Creative Apparel). Since federal money looks like it will be getting tougher to come by, it is very doubtful that a new manufacturer could have a substantial impact on the local salary base.

  3) If a viable manufacturing outfit did choose to locate in DFC, it would probably want to do so at the Pine Crest Business Park.  Pine Crest offers modern facilities (with lots of room to grow) and it’s a Pine Tree Development Zone, so any new business would be eligible for *SIGNIFICANT tax incentives*, additional financing options, and reduced utility rates.  None of these are available at the Moosehead site.

  4) In addition to the residential units that you’ve been so focused on, the article also cited:     * a nine-room inn,      * a restaurant,      * a cafe,      * a business incubator,      * event space, and     * a data center    All of these seem like safer bets to sustainably improve the local employment picture then a single manufacturing employer.

  5) Aside from road work and the Big Apple on Lincoln St, I can’t think of any part of part of Monument Square that has been torn down in the past 20 years, so I’m not sure what your “dusty cross road” is referring to.

  Having said all that, I’m not holding my breath for this project, it seems far from being a done deal.  However, your aggressive negativity and unsubstantiated claims about manufacturing really aren’t productive to the discussion about developing the former Moosehead site.  I believe that is why Cary doubts your grasp of the situation.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G3VHVECWXVPAFPXQOKWKQLXC6M c

  I suspect that Cary said “you truly have no idea what you’re talking about” because:

  1) The Moosehead plant is between 70 and 130 years old (depending on which building you are referring to), so it isn’t really suited to modern industrial uses.

  2) To be economically competitive, manufacturing facilities need to be highly automated or employ cheap labor (less than $2.00/hr). The only real exceptions to that rule are federal contractors (like Creative Apparel). Since federal money looks like it will be getting tougher to come by, it is very doubtful that a new manufacturer could have a substantial impact on the local salary base.

  3) If a viable manufacturing outfit did choose to locate in DFC, it would probably want to do so at the Pine Crest Business Park.  Pine Crest offers modern facilities (with lots of room to grow) and it’s a Pine Tree Development Zone, so any new business would be eligible for *SIGNIFICANT tax incentives*, additional financing options, and reduced utility rates.  None of these are available at the Moosehead site.

  4) In addition to the residential units that you’ve been so focused on, the article also cited:     * a nine-room inn,      * a restaurant,      * a cafe,      * a business incubator,      * event space, and     * a data center    All of these seem like safer bets to sustainably improve the local employment picture then a single manufacturing employer.

  5) Aside from road work and the Big Apple on Lincoln St, I can’t think of any part of part of Monument Square that has been torn down in the past 20 years, so I’m not sure what your “dusty cross road” is referring to.

  Having said all that, I’m not holding my breath for this project, it seems far from being a done deal.  However, your aggressive negativity and unsubstantiated claims about manufacturing really aren’t productive to the discussion about developing the former Moosehead site.  I believe that is why Cary doubts your grasp of the situation.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G3VHVECWXVPAFPXQOKWKQLXC6M c

  I suspect that Cary said “you truly have no idea what you’re talking about” because:

  1) The Moosehead plant is between 70 and 130 years old (depending on which building you are referring to), so it isn’t really suited to modern industrial uses.

  2) To be economically competitive, manufacturing facilities need to be highly automated or employ cheap labor (less than $2.00/hr). The only real exceptions to that rule are federal contractors (like Creative Apparel). Since federal money looks like it will be getting tougher to come by, it is very doubtful that a new manufacturer could have a substantial impact on the local salary base.

  3) If a viable manufacturing outfit did choose to locate in DFC, it would probably want to do so at the Pine Crest Business Park.  Pine Crest offers modern facilities (with lots of room to grow) and it’s a Pine Tree Development Zone, so any new business would be eligible for *SIGNIFICANT tax incentives*, additional financing options, and reduced utility rates.  None of these are available at the Moosehead site.

  4) In addition to the residential units that you’ve been so focused on, the article also cited:     * a nine-room inn,      * a restaurant,      * a cafe,      * a business incubator,      * event space, and     * a data center    All of these seem like safer bets to sustainably improve the local employment picture then a single manufacturing employer.

  5) Aside from road work and the Big Apple on Lincoln St, I can’t think of any part of part of Monument Square that has been torn down in the past 20 years, so I’m not sure what your “dusty cross road” is referring to.

  Having said all that, I’m not holding my breath for this project, it seems far from being a done deal.  However, your aggressive negativity and unsubstantiated claims about manufacturing really aren’t productive to the discussion about developing the former Moosehead site.  I believe that is why Cary doubts your grasp of the situation.

• Anonymous

  Did they miss anything?  Look at the ideas from the article below:

  “Plans are to convert the plant into a mixed-use facility that would include space for 24 rental apartments, a nine-room inn, a restaurant, cafe, business incubator, event space, and a data center, complete with plenty of parking.”

  Talk about throwing darts.  This is just try everything and hopefully everyone will find something that they’ll like.   Just another pipe dream.  Mills & factories are meant for manufacturing.  If not, then tear them down.  You would think the 20 or 30 year nightmare on Saco Island would have shown that these developments never work.

• Anonymous

  Did they miss anything?  Look at the ideas from the article below:

  “Plans are to convert the plant into a mixed-use facility that would include space for 24 rental apartments, a nine-room inn, a restaurant, cafe, business incubator, event space, and a data center, complete with plenty of parking.”

  Talk about throwing darts.  This is just try everything and hopefully everyone will find something that they’ll like.   Just another pipe dream.  Mills & factories are meant for manufacturing.  If not, then tear them down.  You would think the 20 or 30 year nightmare on Saco Island would have shown that these developments never work.

• Anonymous

  Did they miss anything?  Look at the ideas from the article below:

  “Plans are to convert the plant into a mixed-use facility that would include space for 24 rental apartments, a nine-room inn, a restaurant, cafe, business incubator, event space, and a data center, complete with plenty of parking.”

  Talk about throwing darts.  This is just try everything and hopefully everyone will find something that they’ll like.   Just another pipe dream.  Mills & factories are meant for manufacturing.  If not, then tear them down.  You would think the 20 or 30 year nightmare on Saco Island would have shown that these developments never work.

• Anonymous

  Did they miss anything?  Look at the ideas from the article below:

  “Plans are to convert the plant into a mixed-use facility that would include space for 24 rental apartments, a nine-room inn, a restaurant, cafe, business incubator, event space, and a data center, complete with plenty of parking.”

  Talk about throwing darts.  This is just try everything and hopefully everyone will find something that they’ll like.   Just another pipe dream.  Mills & factories are meant for manufacturing.  If not, then tear them down.  You would think the 20 or 30 year nightmare on Saco Island would have shown that these developments never work.

• Anonymous

  Did they miss anything?  Look at the ideas from the article below:

  “Plans are to convert the plant into a mixed-use facility that would include space for 24 rental apartments, a nine-room inn, a restaurant, cafe, business incubator, event space, and a data center, complete with plenty of parking.”

  Talk about throwing darts.  This is just try everything and hopefully everyone will find something that they’ll like.   Just another pipe dream.  Mills & factories are meant for manufacturing.  If not, then tear them down.  You would think the 20 or 30 year nightmare on Saco Island would have shown that these developments never work.

• Fire All Liberals First

  To address your errors:
  1. The age of the Moosehead site is irrelevant. The structures are sound and large enough to accommodate any number of business ventures. The site is going to be renovated regardless of use.
  2. $2.00 labor might be in your big picture of viability. It is not in anybody else’s. The extent of automation in manufacturing is entirely dependent on the type and product being manufactured. I manage a group of highly compensated employees in a capital intensive facility that is not highly automated and we are not only highly competitive but quite profitable as well. The compensation paid has a four fold ripple effect in the local economy.
  3. The board of selectmen can initiate whatever tax incentive packages they wish to proceed with in on any piece of property in the town. What is not available today can be tomorrow.
  4. Is there a demand for more restaurants in D-F? Is that a location that is likely to draw traffic? A business incubator is an empty business until you put something in it. It sounds nice on paper but the success rate of such ventures is relatively low. A single manufacturer utilizing the full site would dwarf the payrolls of these potential businesses.
  5. Well, lets see over the past 30 years or so. Carrol Mace’s dry cleaner business on Lincoln Street is gone. The former retail building next to the bridge across from Moosehead is gone. Lamphurs building on the corner of North and Main is gone. That is a number of holes. I am trying to recall if the building across Morton brook from Mace’s is still there or replaced, I’m not sure. Proceeding down Main, there are several vacant storefronts or short lived ventures that cannot seem to stake out a long term hold.

  Now, viable manufacturing might not be in your vision for the town but unless the town starts getting very proactive in attracting such businesses, the dusty cross road, the empty stores and gaping holes in what was once a viable, self sufficient community will continue to grow.

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G3VHVECWXVPAFPXQOKWKQLXC6M c

  Thank you Fire All Liberals First, this is much more informative!
  In response:
  1) You are correct, the site will need renovation either way.  My point was that it would likely be more cost effective for a manufacturer to purpose build a new plant then to retrofit the existing structures. Commercial and residential tenants could probably renovate more effectively on the cheap.

  2) I’m glad that you’ve found stable and rewarding employment in the manufacturing sector.  I also agree that production conditions vary greatly according to product and industry.  However, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the macro trend in the manufacturing sector is for fewer US based jobs going forward (See http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_207.htm ) mostly due to imports and automation (See http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_501.htm ).

  3) All the tax and financing incentives that I noted at Pine Crest are offered through the state (See http://www.maine.gov/decd/mainebiz/pine_tree_zones/index.shtml ).  I don’t know what the selectmen or PCEDC are offering, or able to offer, at either location.  I imagine that if a serious investor were to approach them, they would do all that they could to get that business anywhere inside town lines.

  4) The Moosehead site is in the exact middle of town.  I don’t know how much retail market exists in DFC, but if it does exist, Moosehead would be the best place for it.  A single manufacturer utilizing the full site would be nice too, but since no takers are coming forward, let’s go with the offer we have.

  5) 30 years ago I was working on crawling and growing teeth; most of the places you mentioned were already gone by the time I was aware of them.  You are right about the vacancies in down town, but your original comment was about Monument Square being torn down, so that was where I focused my response.

  We both want more job opportunities and economic development for the town.  I would like to see a manufacturer come and set up shop too.  I just don’t think that a manufacturer is a very realistic goal, particularly at the Moosehead site. Mixed development is very successful in other parts of the country, why not give it a try?

• http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G3VHVECWXVPAFPXQOKWKQLXC6M c

  Thank you Fire All Liberals First, this is much more informative!
  In response:
  1) You are correct, the site will need renovation either way.  My point was that it would likely be more cost effective for a manufacturer to purpose build a new plant then to retrofit the existing structures. Commercial and residential tenants could probably renovate more effectively on the cheap.

  2) I’m glad that you’ve found stable and rewarding employment in the manufacturing sector.  I also agree that production conditions vary greatly according to product and industry.  However, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the macro trend in the manufacturing sector is for fewer US based jobs going forward (See http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_207.htm ) mostly due to imports and automation (See http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_501.htm ).

  3) All the tax and financing incentives that I noted at Pine Crest are offered through the state (See http://www.maine.gov/decd/mainebiz/pine_tree_zones/index.shtml ).  I don’t know what the selectmen or PCEDC are offering, or able to offer, at either location.  I imagine that if a serious investor were to approach them, they would do all that they could to get that business anywhere inside town lines.

  4) The Moosehead site is in the exact middle of town.  I don’t know how much retail market exists in DFC, but if it does exist, Moosehead would be the best place for it.  A single manufacturer utilizing the full site would be nice too, but since no takers are coming forward, let’s go with the offer we have.

  5) 30 years ago I was working on crawling and growing teeth; most of the places you mentioned were already gone by the time I was aware of them.  You are right about the vacancies in down town, but your original comment was about Monument Square being torn down, so that was where I focused my response.

  We both want more job opportunities and economic development for the town.  I would like to see a manufacturer come and set up shop too.  I just don’t think that a manufacturer is a very realistic goal, particularly at the Moosehead site. Mixed development is very successful in other parts of the country, why not give it a try?

• Anonymous

  Take a look at that place! It will never happen.

• Anonymous

  Who refers to themselves in the third person? I think we all know the answer to that dont we….

• Fire All Liberals First

  … a few more comments.
  1. The cost of plant facilities is entirely dependent on the product and type of manufacturing involved. A modern process flow or repetitive flows might benefit more with a more efficient and modern building to accommodate the machinery and workflow. However, there are many discrete and other processes that could easily utilize the floor space and accessibility of the Moosehead site. From my perspective, it is an excellent location for any number of discrete machining operations. My greater point in all this is that once you sacrifice an existing facility by taking it out of manufacturing use, it is gone for good. The return to the community is far greater to keep the site in manufacturing or conversion of some sort. Retail and residential in a community that is already depressed is not a winning solution for D-F.
  2.  I have been in the manufacturing sector for a long time now and in several different communities. In each one of them, the greatest enthusiasm and return on effort has been with securing additions to the manufacturing base. Retail and end user service economies cannot grow without a base economy to support and feed their growth. In this case, it has to be either manufacturing, tourism or commercial services. These are the businesses that provide the large ripple effects in the local economies to allow retail and residential development of the like being discussed. Lack the former and the latter just collect dust.
  3.  The town could offer a whole basket of incentives if they desired but rather than wait for somebody to approach them, the town needs to take an aggressive position and seek out the businesses themselves. Does D-F have a sharp and committed economic development professional capable of doing what progressive communities across the country are doing in seeking manufacturing base?
  The US has been losing manufacturing sector jobs for a long time now and a part of the reason is because we have become complacent about adjusting to technology shifts and changing business trends. However, it is important to note where these losses are occurring and where are manufacturing base is growing. I live in a community that has recently landed a really big economic catch and it took a LOT of effort on the part of state and local officials to pull it off. It didn’t cost any other area any jobs but it is bringing thousands of jobs here. In Spartanburg, SC, BMW has turned a sleepy little backwater into an economic fountain. Chattanooga, TN is in the middle of doing the same thing with VW. There are numerous little towns throughout the Carolinas and TN that have attracted the smaller mfg. shops supporting larger facilities in other communities. I once worked for a 1st tier automotive manufacturer that had several 2nd tier companies in the region supplying it. The bigger point? It takes initiative to do it.
  4. With all the empty or underutilized space already in D-F, why would anybody think that adding more would somehow change things around? That perplexes me.
  5. I grew up in the town and left before you showed up. There was a whole lot more business going on than there is now and the town has steadily declined since. I would like to see some of it come back.

• SwiftyMorgain

  To Conservative to take in a little silly humor are we?

• SwiftyMorgain

  To Conservative to take in a little silly humor are we?

• SwiftyMorgain

  To Conservative to take in a little silly humor are we?

• SwiftyMorgain

  To Conservative to take in a little silly humor are we?

• SwiftyMorgain

  To Conservative to take in a little silly humor are we?